Why Game of Thrones Already Feels Dated
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 бер 2022
- Visit www.establishedtitles.com/the... and use promo code THETAKE for 10% off! You'll become a real-life “Laird” - certificate and all!
How did Game of Thrones get so instantly dated? As the hit-show let down or sidelined most of its female, POC, and LGBTQ characters, it almost turned itself into a time capsule underlining just how much changed in a few short years.
If you like this video, subscribe to our channel and support us:
Shop our Weird Girl Trope Merch: the-take.creator-spring.com/
Join our Patreon: / thetake
Snap: / 6898188394
Twitter: / thisisthetake
Website: the-take.com/
We are The Take (formerly ScreenPrism). - Розваги
Visit www.establishedtitles.com/thetake and use promo code THETAKE for 10% off! You'll become a real-life “Laird” - certificate and all!
You guys should do a video on the tv series supernatural final season 🤔
17:24 Did you just compare John killing a mass murderer as domestic assault?
This is a really awful sponsorship. I am from Scotland and so many people can’t stand that this is allowed just to give you a fancy little title. Don’t buy other countries’ land for your own entertainment thanks. Not to mention that it’s a scam and not real. You’re paying 50 dollars for a pdf. The woodland is already protected by the Scottish government. You’re not helping preservation. You’re putting money in some company from China’s pocket and it’s quite disturbing that you didn’t look into it.
Disappointing. Established titles is a scam.
The certificate is a pdf that is not official or enforcable. It's just a souvenir piece of paper! And they have no proof that a tree was planted. And really? You pay that much and they put a single seed or sapling into dirt and you think that means anything?
Do your research.
@@itsgonnabeanaurfromme couldn’t agree more. It’s a company in China.
I have never seen a franchise that had disappeared the public’s mind as much as Game of Thrones
It's amazing in a way
St Elmo as well before it
@@kittykittybangbang9367
Unfortunately, Song of Fire & Ice has a grander rival, Kentaro Muira’s Berserk.
Lost is a close second
I won’t rewatch the show or watch the prequel. I only have rewatched the “chaos is a ladder” scene because it’s that good.
The fact we went through worldwide lockdowns and yet hardly anyone decided to rewatch this says *everything* about how it was a huge letdown
Honestly after the long night I realized where this show was headed
That's actually not true though, it was one of the most rewatched shows during lockdown according to HBO's data.
I rewatched in the background while I did chores... enjoyed everything up to the amazing finale of s6 and had to finish it from there. Just as poorly executed of a series finale as I remembered
Nah. Some.of us rewatched this.
I rewatched it. And breaking Bad.
The way they went about making Bran the king is the same way writers made Dan the gossip girl.
hdym gossip girl?
@@juliaostlund9360 Series
It was OBVIOUS Dan was Gossip Girl, Even Sincé eisode ONE. LOL
This comment made me snort milk through my nose.
same energy
Out of all the disappointing things in this show, the one that took the cake for me was Jaime's character development. He had such a complex and compelling arc from start right up to the middle. You hated him in the beginning but then as you go deeper, the show explores his character and you didn't expect to be rooting for him but you did. Imagine a show that could get you to root for the redemption of an immoral man who has no qualms about pushing an innocent kid out a window because he saw him having incestuous intercourse. That was how brilliant the writing was. But by the end, they flung all of that away when they ran out of source material. I saw somewhere in Tumblr that Jaime pushing Bran out the window was basically foreshadowing because that's exactly what they did to his character arc. Funny joke but sad truth.
That particular story arc maddened me the most at the end.
Jaime literally has one of best character arcs in books he leaves Cersei pretty quickly in books and from his pov you see grow disgusted by her as she reminds him of the Mad King, him being away from her probably the longest period of his life and around someone honorable like Brienne brings out parts of him that he thought he didn't have. You really understand why Jaime the way he is and while still not a good person he is morally grey like most of the characters trying to spend the reminder of his life trying to do the honorable thing regardless of consquences
And that they managed to really undo the bulk of it in minutes (when he was at the beach and chose to go back for Cersei)...I could barely stay in the room while it was on.
I still get furious about Jaime. How his character was shown to have a deep moral center (killing the Mad King to save the population of King's Landing), but how his family and station twisted that. And then they have him say he doesn't give a shit about the common people in the 2nd to last episode or something. Pure nonsense. I couldn't understand it.
yes this 100%
I wish the white walkers had just won. Would have fit in with the theme of pointless fighting amongst kingdoms while the enemy was at the gates. Maybe some survivors flee to Essos and form an alliance
I'd've loved this.
Very much agree. At the very least, they should’ve shown humanity pushed to the brink before finding a way to salvation. Instead they killed the enemies before they were even out of the north.
Yea that would have been badass and in line with how the first few seasons treated audience expectations. There was that one scene where daenerys targaryen was in Quarth looking for her dragons in the creepy blue tongue guy’s dungeon and was using mind tricks on her to confuse her. One of them she sees the iron throne which is covered with what I thought (probably most people also) was snow. It felt like the real winners of the iron throne would then be the ice walkers. But then in the end, it turns out to be ash that the throne room was covered in. I guess there’s more of a twist that way, but it kind of makes foreshadowing less impactful.
ugh god you should’ve been in the (non existent) writing room for the white walkers fight😭 that honestly sounds so much better and that’s a real way to subvert audiences expectations since the show prides itself on killing any and everyone!!!
I wished the White Walkers had won and covered all of Westeros, from Winterfell to Dorne, with ice, snow, and walking dead.
I could practically hear the eye rolling in Peter Dinklage’s dialogue delivery throughout those last couple seasons.
Yes, it was so disappointing. He had the most brilliant dialogue before that. Then all of a sudden he was reduced to ball jokes.
RIght? Like the scene when they decide who leads felt so satirical from him in a subtle way and I can only look at it and sigh in understanding.
@@juliaostlund9360 So true. That speech... argh. "Who has a better story than Bran the Broken?" Well, let's see. There's Arya, the faceless assassin, and killer of the Night King. There's Jon, the leader of the Night's Watch, the true heir to the Iron Throne, dragon rider, and killer of a would-be tyrant hellbent on world domination. There's Sansa, former prisoner and pawn, current Queen of the North. Hell, Tyrion, Sam, Brienne...who didn't have a better story than Bran? No shade to the three-eyed raven, but...
@@cv8499 damn, baby Sam has a better story. And probably ability to have heirs one day!
@@juliaostlund9360 I can't imagine he got through reading and performing that scene without laughing a couple of times.
It bugged me how Sansa and Arya instantly dislike Danny, and the writers don't make it appear as though that dislike stems from Danny's father and his treatment of their grandfather, but rather the idea that girls don't like other girls, instantly distrust them, bitch behind their backs, and team up against them. Even if the distrust came from the family history, this woman has just saved their lives and has sacrificed so much for them. That instantly demands respect, not mean girl nonsense. I hated that so much and it was never clearer to me that the series was written by men
I completely agree!! And I also hated how Sansa was bad mouthing Daenerys in the crypts with Tyrion, while Daenerys was on the battlefield risking her life!
@@slayerstyle okay, so the whole "Stark girls hate Dany" could and should have been well done without being a disservice to any character and I will get into that but first, one thing:
Sansa literally didn't say anything negative about Daenerys in the crypt. She said her and Tyrion's marriage would not work out because Dany would always be his #1. Which was true. That's not a judgment on Daenerys. It's just... Acknowledging a fact that Tyrion is a beta orbiter.
After the Battle of the Dawn, Sansa literally offered to house and heal Dany's army after the battle of the dawn before they went south, and Daenerys took that as some sort of insult for no reason. When...you know... It would have been the right thing to do and the properly written Daenerys would have NEVER refused an offer to give her people time to heal)
Now, back to why this could have worked and became a misogynist trash fire instead: There were some very good reasons for the Stark girls to not like Dany when you look at where they are coming from (something the writers had no interest in): Daenerys literally kept Jon Snow prisoner for months during a critical time? And she pretty much handed the Night's King his own dragon (which accidentally made her the biggest help to him prior to the battle whether we like it or not)? And she didn't even think to send a raven to Winterfell to maybe say "Hey, forewarning, the white walker army is huge and we lost a dragon to him."? Also the North had fought so hard for independence from the Iron Throne? And Jon was gone for months without a single word until he announced he handed over the country Robb died for? And he turns up with the extremely inbred daughter of the man who killed their grandfather and uncle with no explanation? Also Dany burned all of the Reach's final harvest before winter (I don't think this was intentional at all, but it still looks REALLY BAD) and implied her dragons would just eat anything and everything they want (another super baffling and ooc writing choice considering three season earlier Dany literally chained her dragons in a dungeon over Drogon killing a child.) right after having them swoop down on the common folk in a way that terrified a bunch of them? She also led an army of people notorious for being reeeeeally into rape and pillaging right to their doorstep?
There were some very good reasons for Sansa, Arya, Lyanna, and the whole North to dislike and distrust Daenerys, is what I am saying. It's true that Dany wasn't at fault for many of those things. She can't help whose testicles she came from, and even though the plan that led to Viserion's death was stupid AF, she couldn't have foreseen that she'd lose him. And considering how she herself was worried about food shortages right before the Rose Road, I doubt she meant to destroy the food. But it still looks REALLY BAD and Jon Snow did dick all to actually explain things in a reasonable manner. (It never ceases to amaze me how the writers went out of their way to make Jon be as condescending as possible to the women in his life during those last two seasons)
And the last two times the Starks fucked with uber-inbred iron throne claimants, it ended in death and abuse. So, from their perspective, yeah, them distrusting her made sense (not that the writers noticed because by that point they'd been checked out for yeeeeears). Especially since Jon was so incommunicado the entire time he was gone and didn't seem to care much about explaining things to his sisters beyond "Muh queen" and "she's not her father!!!! I super special awesome promise!!!"
And it wasn't just them. Lyanna Mormont and the whole North hated her (there was a scene they deleted where a Northern worker literally spit at her feet as the folks around him watched and smiled. EVEN JON FUCKING SMILED WHICH... WASN'T HE SUPPOSED TO BE IN LOVE WITH HER). Even Daenerys admitted that no one in Westeros liked or wanted her. (Because all anyone in Westeros had seen of her at that point was a burning harvest and scary flying reptiles)
If you put yourself in their shoes, and use only the information they had, it makes all of the sense. (Not that the writers were willing to explain anything in a reasonable framework because their read on women is "they're all catty bitches."
I don't deny that it was super contrived or that there was some N-Logging going on (Arya especially had been super Not Like Other Girls for a WHILE with her "most girls are idiots" bullshit). And then there was that awful quote from one of the writers saying part of Sansa's distrust was because Dany was so pretty (because the men writing this show are trash).
But just like the rest of the second half of the show, there were good and interesting reasons for things that could and should have been well explored. But they just fucked it up because the writers hate women even more than Show!Arya does apparently. (Book!Arya: THE WOMAN IS IMPORTANT TOO! Show!Arya: "Most girls are idiots!" 'Nuff said.)
Imagine, for a second, if we had the Northerners learning of the Night King destroying the Wall with an ice dragon before Jon and Dany rode in. Sorry, but that situation does not make Dany look like a benevolent savior at all. It makes her look like an invader who handed humanity's enemy a dragon and strong armed and/or seduced their brother into giving up everything they fought for to her. And yes, that looks really, really, really fucking bad. Dany showed up with an unfed army (which, once again, was 50% serial rapist) and made a dismissive and "vaguely" threatening jape when Sansa asked the extremely reasonable question of "How do we feed everyone?" Which makes it all look even worse.
Imagine if instead of "no, she's not her father, she's much prettier", Sansa went "Jon, we didn't see or hear anything from you for months and you show up without the crown I won for you and the Mad King's daughter, who immediately upon arriving had her dragons swoop down and scare the shit out of the small folk, then proceeded to dismiss the concern of feeding humans by not so subtly implying that her dragons will totally eat people if she wants."
This could have been explored but the writers were too busy masturbating to their Star Wars aspirations and rape scenes to, you know, do that. It's a very normal thing for decent people to dislike and distrust each other in extreme situations, especially when politics are involved. And that dynamic could and should have been super fascinating. But the writers don't think of women as people so much as they see them as interchangeable rape dolls who all hate each other)
@@wendynerd1199 i agree with most of the things you pointed out...more specifically the bad writing and overall bad quality of the last season. However, i don't think i agree with you on the reasons the Stark girls disliked Daenerys. Jon went to Dragonstone to ask Dany for help with the Night King and i am pretty sure both Jon and Sansa were aware of what people were in her armies (if you say they were bothered by the Dothraki). Why was Sansa so annoyed Dany actually came to help them? would it have been better had she not come ? Shouldn't she be grateful and not act like a brat in front of the lords of the North and say "and how are we suppose to feed the biggest army the world has ever seen?" Is that how you speak with someone who has come to help you? Also a very dick move from Jon (actually Dumb&Dumber the brilliant writers) for telling everyone that Dany's help was conditioned by him bending the knee, when in fact she agreed to help him BEFORE he decided to bend the knee. Yes, the Night King got a dragon, but only because Dany went beyond the wall to save Jon. Are you saying that her going to save their brother is a reason for Sansa and Arya to dislike her?! Also, in the crypts i agree that she did not say bad things about Dany specifically, but her entire attitude towards Dany was rotten and while Dany was out on the battlefield, risking her life...and when the dead started rising in the crypts, Sansa hid to save her ass while the dead killed the women and children hiding there, HER people. Yeah, sure, she did not have fighting skills, but if she were truly as noble as she thought herself to be she would have at least try to help them. For me the contrast between Daenerys and Sansa in that episode was pretty strong!
@@slayerstyle Sansa did save people. She and Tyrion ran from their hiding place to save people. we saw it. We just didn't get the rest of it because Emilia Clarke wanted more scenes with a sword.
Back to the points - that disagreement might be fine if not for the fact that Sansa didn't see or know about half that shit (Jon only wrote to her once, remember, and the letter was only 3 sentences, that's why I keep bringing up Jon refusing to communicate with anyone). You're looking at this with the eyes of someone who has seen Game of Thrones and knows Daenerys's whole story. The North hasn't and the one person who knows at least a little refuses to explain anything beyond "muh queen."
And also....Dany had already handed the Night's King a dragon and had kept Jon locked away from them for months before she arrived, and that's what they know. Dany acted absurdly, and then doubled down on this by having her dragons terrify the shit out of the Northerners. Sansa was never big on asking Dany for help and giving up the North's independence was never supposed to be on the table. Daenerys's "help" came with strings attached that were never supposed to exist.
Destroying the Night's king is also something in literally everyone's best interest because literally no one is getting out alive unless he is dealt with as soon as possible. Daenerys was helping herself as much as anyone and her constantly framing the conflict as the Northerners's or Jon's war is simply wrong and absurd. If we're going to call Sansa bratty, then Danny's response of "my dragons eat whatever they want" is downright insane, especially given that one of Danny's dragons killed a child (not to mention OOC as hell considering they made a pivotal scene out of her chaining up Rhaegar and Viserion over what Drogon did. And now she's all "Whatevah! Whatevah! My dragons EAT WHAT THEY WANT!". It was a threat.
And, um, waltzing in, having your dragons terrify a crowd of innocents, calling yourself queen, and claiming they'll eat whatever after you've handed humanity's biggest enemy a dragon? Yeah, that's some shitty behavior. Especially if you also burned the last harvest, which Daenerys did.
Also, you're remembering wrong. Daenerys 100% insisted on Jon bending the knee before she'd agree to help repeatedly (it was that scene in the Dragon Glass cave that made me lose all respect for her). That's why she kept him prisoner for weeks. And it wasn't skepticism, as she was eating up everything Melisandre said when she heard there was a prophecy about her. It was only when Jon showed up and is all "can we put a pin in the throne since a giant zombie army is coming to destroy us all?" that she was reticent). It was only after she personally lost something that she decided to make the end of literally every human being on the planet the priority - and even then she wanted to handle things with Cersei before heading to Winterfell so it was as convenient to her IT campaign as possible.
As for her saving Jon, Dany sent Jon on that mission in the first place. And instead of sending him with a proper guard and supplies, she sent two dudes and expected Jon to go and capture a wight for her with a few free folk and nothing more when it was 100% in her means to be more helpful. And all of it was in the pursuit of her own interests. It was all about settling things with Cersei so that the NK threat caused as little disruption to her IT ambitions as possible. The incident that led to the NK getting Viserion was 100% about protecting her interests. And even after leaving a dragon corpse with the NK, she still insisted on meeting with Cersei first instead of, say, heading to the rest of the North to prepare despite her seeing the threat's scale. Also: she didn't save Jon, Benjen did.
If we're going to hold Sansa and Arya to account for their behavior, then Dany also gets that scrutiny. And she acted like an entitled, arrogant dick from season 6 on. She constantly and continually put her ambitions over the welfare of others, she also continually abandoned her allies (see: her doing nothing to try and retrieve the Ironborn or the Sand Snakes after their defeats, which, if I were Jon, I'd be nervous about), constantly threatening people, etc. She literally told Jon that she'd not help until he bent the knee and when he said his people would not accept that, the so-called breaker of chains claimed he was putting his pride over his people. The woman who was, at that moment, holding the safety of the entire continent hostage over a title.
If Sansa had done that, a lot of people would be calling her a psychopath.
Btw - Sansa actually did fight the wights. We saw her and Tyrion rush out of their hiding space to do so and there's a deleted scene where she saves Missandei's life.
Don't get me wrong, I get that all of these things are contrivances made by bad writers, but let's apply it equally here. If we're going to acknowledge that Sansa making it obvious in public that she hated Dany is stupid and shitty and nonsensical, or that Arya deciding Dany is bad because she's not "one of us" is ooc and stupid, or that Jaime choosing Cersei over Brienne is a betrayal of character, we have to acknowledge that Daenerys's ooc dickery began before she burned KL. And, uh, it did.
The story takes place during barbaric times. There is no such thing as sorority, only xenophobia. As proud and noble the northerners are, it’s no surprise the Stark women would not trust a Targaryen, even without considering what the madking did.
I really wish the writers of Games of Thrones could have just admitted they didn't want to continue with the show and just handed it over to someone else who really wanted to continue the story and end in the right way.
fr 😭
To me the disappointed ending was too painful. I love this show, the books are amazing and what D&D did was a disaster.
I can't rewatched the series because I remember the end.
The fans remember 😭
Right they really ruined it smh
this video was pure cancer
So much is never touched on again so why bother with the set up?
No Battle On Ice, no Aegon "Young Griff" invasion, no Euron destroying the world, etc. D&D cut the best parts of the story out.
Wow. Every single time I think Game of Thrones could not have done things worse, a video like this pops up bringing more critisism on it and making me realise it really really really was a disastrous ending!
Me too!
I watch videos like these and I'm like,
"I hated the ending..but I didn't think of it like THIS/THAT" 😂
@@greatgownsbeautifulgowns same! I remember thinking in the early 2000s, “well as long as the ending is good” in order to get through the worse parts of the narrative. Guess that didn’t even come through 😭
@@Black_pearl_adrift
Nope! It certainly didn't happen with GOT. 😂
Actually, 'Big Love' is the only show that I can think of off the top of my head as far as being a show where the series' ending was actually good.
It's like when any show in general is ending the writers just don't care anymore lol.
The ending was actually great, people are just nit picky these days
@@Chris-rg6nm
I swear I'm not trying to be a smartass, but what do you think made the ending great? I'm honestly just curious.
The thing is, Martin never kills anyone in the books because he wants to subvert expectations, he kills characters in pretty well established settings and just after a series of wrong and right choices have been made to bring the character to a certain point. But Arya killing Night king out of nowhere and Dany going mad just because and Tyrion who is on trial deciding who'll be king next is just bad writing.
Dany was well on her way to being a tyrant
@@srkh8966 she could be. I don't say she wasn't. But it wasn't established well enough. Sth that could be fleshed out in one full season or more was done in matter of two episodes.
@@hanieh_art I agree
@@srkh8966 She was established as viewing the world as either with her or against her. That is not the same as going on mass murder rampage on innocent people. That came out of nowhere.
@@srkh8966 Do tyrants fight for human rights? That's just sexist bullshit because she was a woman.
15:00 It must be said that the Drogo issue isn't just the show's. I've seen many people, women even, romanticising the hell out of Dany's and Drogo's relationship when even in the books it's pretty messed up and never a healthy one.
Yes, Drogo is relatively nice to her; but he also had expectations of her as his wife, and he always demanded her to fulfil those expectations. Even in the books, Dany feels miserable during their first weeks as a couple; eventually she resigns herself to her situation, and learns to make the most of it - particularly by pleasing Drogo. And it's not until she shows herself the ideal wife (embracing Dothraki customs, being submissive, and pleasing him on bed) that he allows her some voice and authority.
I think Dany's and Drogo's relationship is very interesting in the sense of being an example of a relationship that works *because* the woman submitted to patriarchal expectations - which leads to a bunch of good questions, such as the real nature of Dany's feelings for Drogo (did she truly love him, or did she simply take the first man in her life up until then who didn't overtly brutalise her? Did he help her develop her own strength, or did he just allow her some authority to keep her happy but only as long as she bowed to him as the greater authority?).
Sadly, all these questions completely fly over the head of people who swoon over them. I get it, Jason Momoa is so damn charismatic that it's hard to hate even his characters; perhaps if the producers had hired, I dunno, Danny Trejo to play Drogo, people wouldn't romanticise his relationship with Dany so much lol
It's truly amazing how often people will bend over backwards to make excuses for a character no matter how horrendous their actions are and romanticize any ships of them no matter how unhealthy and abusive, if said character is played by a sufficiently attractive actor. (See: Reylo, Bedward, etc.) This happens to characters regardless of gender of course, as plenty of people will also excuse the hell out of an female character's toxic and abusive behavior if she's sufficiently good-looking, but seeing fans unironically glamorize abusive misogynists who are played by hot and charismatic actors is particularly disturbing.
@@electricsheep7772 I'm especially salty towards Reylo because there's also a racial element to it. Adam Driver isn't even that attractive (he does have a fine voice tho), and Kylo is a patricidal emotionally unhinged killer who manipulates Rey; yet some people prefer seeing her with him rather than the black character who actually cares for Rey.
(not saying every Reylo fan is a racist, but it's very naive to think there's no racism in how there's an apparent preference for pairing the white woman with the white man, unhinged as he might be, rather than the black guy who's kind and cares for her)
@@misswiss278 that would be a terrifying khal drogo
Yeah and in the books isnt Dany like 12 or 15 when she first marries him
@@RevanSurik i agree with you about reylo. i remember how the people who liked reylo relentless harassed john boyega on social media
“Such a shame” and “what a waste” are what spring to mind when I think of Game of Thrones now. A great cautionary tale for the storytellers who follow it. Don’t pander to your audience and assume they are dumb. Don’t squander character development. The story is everything. I would have vastly preferred a rewarding, clever story that was told entirely through dialogue than the messy, dumb spectacle we were served.
While I do think that they thought they were pandering, and offering fanservice, it was quite the opposite.
We hated where the characters ended up. I, personally, would have rathered a classic ending that isn't rushed; one that was thought through like the earlier seasons of the show.
In hindsight, it was not shock value that the audience enjoyed. The lack of plot armor was there to serve a greater goal: Writing a good show.
Exactly. We fell in love with a show that was built on intricate storylines that took time to build. We feel in live with a world full of character development and nuance. And the creators thought a rushed ending letting most plot lines go to shit in the process would be forgiven because of nice looking special effects? It's a slap to the face.
Leslie Knope:
•You blew it!
•Super Hard!
•Complete Buffoonery!
•It's hilarious!
•You deserve it!
As an aspiring storyteller audience such as yourself and your ilk are literally the last people i'd wanna put my sweat and tears making anything for. This is a cautionary tale for storytellers about not giving actually not giving a fuck about "the fans", if this is the way you treat people that literally broke all sorts of tv storytelling records, from the creative side down to the technical and production side, just cause "you didnt like the way it ended", then you absolutely do not deserve being catered to or thought about, like at all.
That dragon fight alone is absolutely worth paying my respects to D&D and everyone who has worked on this from inception, i mean jesus christ, as a fantasy fan that is the greatest thing i've ever seen in my life on screen, fuck y'all bitching about the ending.
@@afrosymphony8207 it’s great that you enjoyed it. I did not. Should I pretend I did to save the feelings of a bunch of extremely well-paid TV execs? Should I say nothing and just switch off my TV?
Game of Thrones is like when you finally realize your boyfriend/girlfriend is a jerk. The flaws were always there, but you ignored them because you were so enamored with the qualitities. However, when the mistakes became to big to ignore and the good stuff you fell in love with disappear, you look back and finally see the red flags that were in your face since the beginning.
This is how I feel about Supernatural, lol.
I saw them right from the start. I didn't see the series but saw a few clips on UA-cam and didn't like what I saw. Mothers washing their small children outside a brothel. The red flags were off putting. It was the sort of series people brought up on Harry Potter movies would move onto but Harry Potter by comparison was rather innocent.
Thank you - I feel this way about a lot of franchises I’ve enjoyed in the past.
@@LittleHobbit13 What's wrong with Supernatural??
@@lemsip207 it is about medieval period. How else were mothers supposed to wash their children if not at the nearest spot to their place of job (meaning brothel)? Did you expect spa-centres with different types of sauna at their disposal?
Remember when Arya cooked Walder Frey's sons into meat pies that she fed to them before slitting his throat with a smile on her face, or when Sansa fed Ramsey Bolton to his own dogs? But they are totally not the same as Dany because Sansa and Arya were justified in their revenge quests while Dany, who had quite a few parallels with Sansa and Arya, was... well... Dragon lady bad!
You can see the difference in a revenge killing and wholesale slaughter of innocents, right?
@@anaconda1078 yes, but Dany's arc wasn't built up well enough to warrant that wholesale slaughter in the penultimate episode of the series. D&D kept saying that her "madness" was hinted at but the "hints" really didn't seem that different from actions taken by Arya and Sansa other than that Dany had dragons. It was clear that the showrunners just wanted to be done and just sloppily wrote her snapping and doing a genocide instead of actually fleshing out the ending of an otherwise complex character. I'm not even upset that she became a villain in the end, I'm upset because the writing was so shitty.
@@allyssaward5691 word. It would have been far more believable for Arya to go full psycho mass murderer if they were going for the “you cheered this on” surprise. But she met Ed Sheeran and was magically healed.
@@isabelablackdancer I too wish to be healed by a magical Ed Sheeran
@@allyssaward5691 Dany wasn’t mad. It made complete sense to dragon nuke the city. That rape riddled city and society needed a cleansing. She needed to assert her authority and rebuild. It was war, not revenge.
The thing is most of the choices were good, but they weren't earned or built up properly. Daenerys going evil was fine, but since they rushed it, it came off as her just being unhinged and stupid instead of an understandable and tragic fall from grace. Bran being king makes all the sense in the world. He can't fall to lust and gluttony like King Baratheon, he is fair and impartial, so he's no King Joeffery, he knows everything that has happened so he cannot be manipulated or tricked like King Tom ..and his Stark name carries enough respect to cover the rest....but they never show why it would work, they just blindside you with it.
Yeah, not bad decisions per say, but it just didn't make sense
I tend to agree. And especially if you read the books? Bran as king is perfect. The CotF have been trying to assume a position of power for centuries.
Daenerys becoming the enemy also makes sense. Her reign has not been free of bad choices and unexpected setbacks and she is not without her assumptions about what is right. I also think the idea that she may become frustrated and even triggered in a tactical assault is not that unlikely either, especially with fAegon and Jon contending for a throne she feels is hers rightfully and if - god forbid - she does lose a dragon (and I think she's more likely to lose one to someone like Euron in the books).
The show does did it terribly.
@QueenJuliRose only for the humans. Great for the CotF!
@QueenJuliRose Yeah but the TV version clearly has his attachments to his family, his home and the general wellness of the people despite what he says, he shows it.
Bran literally said in previous season that he can never be lord of anything when the king is titled “LORD of the seven kingdoms”
I think they misunderstood Martin's subverting of expectations. The book didn't just kill people because we liked them. It was just because that's how life works out sometimes and it felt very organic in the books. The plot armor on fan favorites was useless if you were just going give them shitty and unresolved arcs. Cersei and Daenerys to me hurt the most. They were the most interesting female characters in a fantasy show I've ever seen and everything fell flat for them. I also do not forgive them for making the climax of the show the battle for the iron throne. I've heard their reasoning and I still don't agree. The series is called a song of ice and fire, not the dragon vs the lion. They could have lost the battle and winter could have come to the iron throne and that would've been a more satisfying end than what they gave us.
Right!!!??!! Something I haven't really seen been said. It is so, utterly, anti-climactic to resolve the threat to humanity BEFORE the 'mortal squabbles of power'? It would've made total sense with how they resolved it to reverse the two. I get you actually need people alive to fight wars, but imagine how dramatic it would've been to face those impossible odds and won by some impossibly slim chances that you only needed to kill the night king himself.
In real life, threats to humanity come first obvi, but drama is the complete opposite of real life. You learn that basic first years of a theater degree. Wow- these writers are lazy af.
What was their reasoning anyway?
@@juliaostlund9360 pretty much that they felt the story was about the characters and that they wanted to see the good guys becoming the bad guys which really could only be accomplished by taking out the night king. When talking about him, they talk about how yea that just one the storylines is coming to a close. They never saw that as something to explore or resolve it was just a plot device happening in the background. They felt more comfortable with our emotional investment of the characters and wanted the story to play around that instead of you know, the actual story lol they stuck to the not doing what people expected thing so hard and Daenerys was the easiest way to do that since they knew how much folks were rooting for her.
Also it still felt like it was the logical conclusions of their actions. Ned and Robb made mistakes, and they paid for it in ways that made sense. Ned shouldn't have told Cersei about his plans, nonetheless trust that she'd just go along with it. Robb shouldn't have just assumed that Walder Frey was going to accept the fact that he went back on their deal.
It wasn't just random "oh ho ho, didn't see that coming, huh?!", it was all still motivated. Something they lost sight of once they ran out of books.
10000000000%👏👌
13:33 "...broke down the nudity on this show and found that 83.7% were female"
Euphoria creators: Okay. We hear you. We need more MALE full frontal nudity.
As Dennis from Always Sunny eloquently put it:
"Give me dong, or give me death!"
Equality! But make it regressive.
Omg...yes! I was just thinking that. Euphoria said...equal rights....here's all the penis you can AND can't handle. At least S2 toned it down on the dicks but jeez
@@22rajiboo I know right? I am straight but I was repulsed by all the flaccid penises.
@@jessicayoung3656 What does your sexuality have to do with this?
It's just astounding to me how a tv show that big could erase itself from pop culture consciousness in a single episode. I watched and was like 'well that's done, let's watch something else'. Rather than feeling like I had to 'mourn' the show ending, like with Parks and Rec or other shows. But then again when I watch interviews with the show runners.... yikes.
Guys no stop. The fact that Jon was straight up screaming at the white walker dragon right before Arya did the knife trick still haunts me to this day.
Wait you're telling me that scene wasn't supposed to be comedic relief? Coz I was laughing out loud at my screen at this point. Absolutely ridiculous.
And Jon also screamed at the undead dragon. And survived. Ridiculous.
It’s dated because the final season destroyed all previous seasons, making it unwatchable. They could have gave us even an average ending, but they gave an ending so unimaginable that even the actors had to hold their tongue from shitting on it, and one of the main actors ended up in rehab right before the finale.
we can thank the show creators D&D who were so incompetent they messed up the $10 million pilot because they didn’t know what they were doing. And refusing to have a writers room and hiding their plans til the final minute.We can also thank them for reconning the ending to make the 8 seasons 4 episode hero of the show, a worse villain than all bad characters combined. And give us the least wanted god king who made it happen. George is also to blamed for not finishing the book in over a decade. This show will be a case study for future college courses in writing, film direction, marketing, entertainment on how to destroy a great legacy that could have been like Harry Potter or LOTR or Stars Wars and billions of future revenue for thousands, because two dummies wanted to shock and screw the audience.
THIS
I will be teaching said class
The main reason you should have showrunners that are passionate and truly understand the content and the product to see it all the way through. Dumb & Dumber saw* ASOIAF as a career booster and once they got the fame they were ready to bail
Most of what you say is very true, especially considering that HBO was more than willing to invest whatever money was necessary to have at least two full seasons and even more. It was the show runners who had grown tired of the franchise and rushed everything to end it as soon as they could.
All true. What I also don't understand is why D&D, who got tired of GoT and didn't want to do it anymore, didn't pass the reins to willing and capable writers/showrunners. HBO, GRRM, cast, crew and fans all over the world would have loved more episodes. It could have done justice to the characters and story arcs if given more time and people actually willing to care for this IP
I "love" that clip of David Benioff saying that John Snow resolving the conflict with the white walkers "didn't feel right", when it was THE ONLY WAY it would feel right. lol He was the central character in the white walkers plotline. yeah, It's so embarassing to remember this show nowadays.
That was pure arrogance, seemed like. "Oh no, the audience expects the storyline to play out exactly the way we've spent time and effort to set it up. Can't have that, I must prove my audience members were not as smart as me for being able to follow this!"
Seriously. They put so much emphasis on his true parents, a secret Ned took to his grave, one that showed up in prophecies, all for it to mean nothing. Aria, who'd never had any interaction with white walkers at all, is the one to kill the Night King, instead of say Cersei, whose death she'd spent most of her life fantasizing about? Bran has the ability to take over people as well as animals but does nothing with it during the most important battle of his lifetime? Argh... They needed a writer's room.
It's embarrassing to watch those post episode interviews
I would have loved to see jon even die on that cause. Maybe live on in the stories of the people from behind the wall, and a whisper of the north and forgotten in the south. Like turned into some sort of mythos of how he sacrificed himself. I feel like that would fit his narrative. The gods bought him back, so he can die for a greater cause.
They wrote themselves bit of a pickle the Night King is not in books he was something they took inspiration from the books. The Others( White Walkers they are called in show) will likely be pushed back not defeated in books Jon will no doubt play a role in this this. One of the mysteries of the Others in the books is why now? They been gone for like 8,000 plus years why now in the books you see the Others like twice in all 5 books you see them twice they are mention constantly and you see the wights doing there dirty work but you rarely see the Others and one of the brief times you see them a group of them are clearly talking to each other like they clearly have a language and if a language some type of culture the character viewing the convo has no idea what going on plus he human so can't understand them so you miss it on a first read but the Others are clearly intelligent and George leaves a mystery of why they are attacking now they had a thousand years to do it so why now if they wanted to try to kill humanity they could've tried in the 8000 years they been gone.
Something must have aggravated them or they have some goal to achieve. A popular fan theory is they won't be defeated in battle but negotiated with like they will fight and be pushed back but they won't all simply die when you kill the big one no something is motivating them and the characters will discover it and reach an agreement with them.
I feel like when it comes to Tyrion, omitting the backstory with his wife Tysha completely neutered his character arc. The sheer betrayal Tyrion goes through makes him a straight up villain in the later books. In the show he becomes the funny drunk dwarf basically
exactly, actually almost exactly because he's intended to be funny but never actually is, the dialogue is always so lame :~
Almost every fan disagrees with me but I think that since in the show Shae actually loved Tyrion and her betrayal hurt him even more, the Tysha reveal was not necesary and would have felt like it competed with his story with Shae, and viewers may not even remember much about Tysha who was I think never mentioned again after the first time. Also in the show Shae makes the sensible observation that "a woman who was nearly raped does not take another man into her bed just hours later", which would have had to been proven wrong had the show followed the books.
I completely agree how his character deteroriated after S4 though.
Another problem was the creators wanting to misdirect and shock the audience for the sake of it and if fan theories are correct the creator would intentionally do something else at the cost of creating a good story.
yeah, like when John and the Night King face each other, which they literally did it.
Made it appear like we finally gonna see that long awaited battle, and then make it not happen just for the sake of laughing at our expectation and nothing else, literally no reason at all besides that, as we can see even in the table reading of that scene. poor night king
im so happy people talk about how pointless and horrific those assault scenes were, especially the ones that were of background characters. throughout the entire series i remember thinking “this is how the world sees womens suffering, as an insignificant and unavoidable effect of mens animalistic rage” and obviously that is a sweeping general assumption, but as an abuse survivor it was almost like the show was beating that back into my mind, that none of the abuse actually matters. no doubt in my mind that this was probably unintentional, but that’s almost worse to me. if you’re going to portray these violent and completely senseless acts for the sake of realism, then why tf would you not show the realistic affects of someone having to endure that?! and i don’t think it’s a coincidence at all that 4 out of the 5 main powerful women, sansa cersei brienne and danny (excluding aria) all have assault scenes as a means to show “how strong they are” it’s sickening truly. our bodies are not props and our stories and struggles are not a side plot in someone else’s. this is my biggest issue with the show, i even could’ve got behind danny’s conclusion, but this is just unforgivable. especially now learning that one of the workers on the set was told by an executive “i rep the pervy side of the audience” ?!?! that’s like literally admitting you write these scenes of r*pe and abuse against women for the male gaze in mind….. makes me sick to my stomach to even type that. fuck this show👍🏼
and this is probably just my own personal gripe with the show: EFF WHAT THEY DID TO SHAY🗣 i thought that scene of her screwing papa lannister was at worst a r*pe scene used to justify her senseless murder, and at best a scene of a helpless woman surrounded by the most powerful ppl in the world who see her as a literal toy, could shay have said no if she wanted to?!?! i highly doubt it!!! so why did the show use that as Ts in-sighting scene?!?! i get the message, he hates his dad blah blah blah. but murdering her was pointless and that’s the scene i was like “yeah im probably not gonna fw this show” followed up right behind T allowing a woman he doesn’t know to be abused by his sister bc he brought shay to an unsafe place for his own selfishness. T is portrayed as this super smart and rational man but we never even see him feel bad about what he did for longer than a few lines :/ but supposedly that’s the love of his life huh?! gross
@@carmen8958 I totally agree. Men pander to other men wgo glamorize assault. Assault on screen should be criminalized. Seriously jail anyone whp retrauamatizes survivors.
This is the main reason I never watched. I'm fortunate enough not to be a survivor of abuse but that doesn't mean I want to see it used as entertainment (particularly when we all know it's there to titillate a segment of the audience)
Forcing a character - of *any* gender - to endure a traumatic event and come out stronger is just fundamental storytelling. It's unremarkable but acceptable storytelling if the trauma they endure is based on societal bias, like gender or race. It's unacceptable for a narrative to frame this trauma as a fact of life that only the "strong" can overcome and thus be defined as a "whole" person.
@@carmen8958 THANK. YOU. Shay did NOT deserve all the hate she got and didn’t deserve to die like that. I looked at Tyrion very differently after that.
the moral of this story is: if you're going to adapt a book series, wait until the series is finished first. They've successfully managed to ruin not only their own show, but also the books that are till to be written (which is taking Grr Martin way too long!
I wonder, if ever, when he'll finish it. He had a massive role in building the world of Elden Ring which recently came out, writing all the stories of characters/places, and yet he won't finish his own series. Whyyyy, we've waited forever already. :(
I think another problem is the fact that fans seem to be obsessed at figuring out what is going to happen before it happens. If they do figure it out they view the creators to be predictable so they have to try their best to make sure they out smart the fans. In the end the story winds up not developing naturally like it should.
I don’t know considering there’s manga writers who die for a deadline. I would prefer he lives a healthy life
I had to scroll too much for this comment. If Martin would've said that "Guys, I don't think I can continue the books as fast as you make the show" instead of "Oh well, I'll finish it next year" then "I promise, next year it'll be done" then next year, next year, next year, then
1. The actual writers/adaptors of the tv show would've time (and we speak about at least 3-4 years) to figure out the whole thing with the slight supervision of Martin.
2. They would've said that "Dear Audience, we aim to make a really good show for you, so we'll wait for Martin to finish the books" and we would wait 3-4-5 years for the finish, or, even better, 2 years between each seasons. And we, the audience would push Martin to finish his f*cking story instead of jumping all day naked on a trambooline.
D&D didn't think right, when they wanted to "move on" from the show, since it was one of the most successfull series of all time and I agree with Martin in that it was much more in it, even 10-12 seasons in total. But we can't blame them for the retrogression, because they are not Martin. As it took Christopher Tolkien decades to collect and to put in order his father's work - even if Martin's work isn't as diversified - two stranger just can't finish someone else's work in a couple years without tight collaboration with the original writer himself.
or only do it until the books are done. as long as they had writing material, the show was great
I often find myself comparing Game of Thrones to Black Sails, and it is amazing to me how much that Game of Thrones got wrong, Black Sails managed to get right. even the subject of sexual assault. both times we see or hear about it on Black Sails it is entirely focused on the female characters emotional state and her process of dealing with that trauma, it is never sexy or a side event designed to incite male characters to action.
Which is interesting, becauses isn't one of the producers for Black Sails Michael Bay of all people?
@@FlyingFocs Ironically enough, yes he is. Its like Black Sails quiet secret.
Here's the thing that always pisses me off: people of Westeros gave more 'conditions' to Dany's conquest. Aegon is celebrated for conquering Westeros, Tywin wasn't labeled a tyrant for helping murder the Targaryens, Robert was crowned king for the war he started, and on and on and on. Dany? Well she has to fulfill these special conditions for her conqest. And then when she finds out that her lover is her nephew, that he has a better claim to the throne, her best friend dies, her closes confidant is killed, the army she brought to save Westeros gets decimated, when people of Westeros don't appreciate the obvious sacrifices she made, they call her crazy. Like no s#@#@! Sherlock she's not well, she had series of traumatic experiences happen in a very short period of time. But did they advise her? Help her? Nope they went straight for the backstab. And let's not talk about the whole bells made her crazy thing. Just damn...
And Jon Snow? He went from character with convictions and leader to a mumbling idiot who can say two sentences the entire season.
Not only that, but she put her personal goals aside to go to the north and fight the undead. Only to be met with icy bitchiness by Sansa who acts like an entitled bitchy "mean girl" because apparently that's what the writers think female empowerment means.
True. Guess that proves the saying 'history is written by the victors'. What Dany does, up to King's Landing at least and yet still encompassing that to a degree, is no worse than any other historical figure in Westeros has done, and yet she is the one judged for them.
As for Jon, I honestly just have the view that Melisandre leaving gave him brain damage, since she brought him back and he was (mostly) fine while she was in close proximity. Makes the last two seasons a little more bearable, at any rate.
I’m surprised there was no mention of Margerie. She was making tactical moves and then that’s all gone in one instance, literally blown up
Yes, she was my favorite characters and (in my opinion) one of the strongest characters on the show, because she felt realistic: she doesn't have dragons, only her beauty and charisma. The way she yielded power felt also very empowering to me (more empowering than say Daenerys or Arya) because this is how most women yielded their power throughout history (not directly, but whispering it in a mans ear and then making them thinks it's their idea). I'm fine with her dying, but it should have come from the culture of Westeros (maybe the people of King's Landing turning on her because of a wrong move, or her becoming too arrogant and losing her subtlety), instead of Cersei. And even IF they decided to go with the 'destruction of the sept' ending, it should have had SERIOUS consequences for Cersei (like a people's uprising or an attempted assassination to Cersei out of love for Margaery). Sorry for the long paragraph haha, I have so many feelings about Margaery's death.
@@anais559 I agree. I don't mind your long reply it helped provide context to your argument and alternative scenario. Well-round response lovely.
I thought Cersei killing her was actually kind of perfect. It was poetic and pointed to an ugly truth of history. All the men in that scene in the sept were blind to the threat. Only Margaery understood just how lethal a threat that Cersei was, but no one listened to a word she said because she was a woman. At least a few of them would have made it out of there alive if they had started to run when she urged them to, but no one listened to her because they all thought women were either too meek or too stupid to outsmart them. Margaery didn't lose the game to Cersei, she lost it to Westerosi culture being so sexist that they wouldn't listen to her.
@@cl5470 Agreed. Of all the female players, I feel like Margaery met her demise in the most fitting way. I mean, her death was for sure shocking, but it was perfect. She was so smart and charming and charismatic and she almost had the upper-hand on Cersei, but the ignorance of men is what led to not just her death but the death of everyone in the building. I think what is truly disappointing is that after season six, which was not as good as the earlier seasons but still an incredibly good season, season seven and eight just fell off and failed to mention any of the consequences for what Cersei did at the end of season six. Like wouldn't the people of King's Landing be incredibly upset with Cersei because of what she had done to their religion and their Sept? Wouldn't they have been rioting, or planning a way to kill her? Wouldn't it have been easy for Daenerys to swoop in and take the crown from someone so hated as Cersei? And then Cersei could've met her demise, now that everyone had turned against her and she had lost power, and then season eight could've focused solely on the White Walkers.
She was one of my favourite characters … so cunning and manipulative!
I was someone who literally had Game of Thrones merch as my whole living room decor. I loved the books and when the show came out I was so excited. By season 5, I could feel that something that was going wrong and by season 8 I was actively angry at where the series had gone. I thought I was over it but watching this video made me mad all over again lol. They ruined the best show of the 21st century by deciding it wasn’t fun anymore once they had to actually show some creativity.
I get angry sometime when I remember. Sansa becoming Queen of the North when the last Stark was the new king if the 7 kingdoms was on top of My list
I feel really bad for the actors, all their dedication and love poured into those characters only for some lazy writers to flush it all down the toilet… 😪
I agree 100%! No pay off for soooo many characters. There were hundreds of what amounted to red herrings. Very disappointing.
Game of thrones was never good enough to have its merch as your whole living room decor. No show was or will ever be that good. Talk about lack of creativity. 😅
@@aidan6480 Let people decor their living space how they want dude 😂
I never got into game of thrones and I’m glad I didn’t waste my time knowing now that it had an awful ending.
I had seen a few scenes here and there, but from what I saw I hated how the characters that were women were treated. I felt like it glamourised rape, while that’s not to say it can’t be in a story, if it’s shown to glorify these naked female actresses it’s puts the situation in a way that makes it look appealing and justifiable - which it is NOT.
It felt like nudity for the sake of nudity and it was mostly naked women I saw on the screen. If it’s supposed to be realistic then have naked men too. Idk I’m glad I never put my time into this show.
You took the words out of my mouth
You clearly didn’t watch the show if you think the rape was glamorised (at least in the early seasons).
@@John-xr9ry yeah I just said I didn’t watch it, I saw scenes here and there. And what I did see made me really uncomfortable as there was far too much female nudity and rape. I didn’t want to get invested in something that made me feel that way.
Then judging from this video the ending was a disappointment so I am happy I didn’t invest in the show.
@@jimmehsullivan123, the female nudity does get toned down in s6 onwards but yeah, considering how the show ended, you’re kind of lucky you didn’t watch it. I’d say it’s worth it for those first 4 seasons but damn those last two seasons felt like a stab in the heart
@@John-xr9ry I can’t even imagine how disappointing it was for everyone 😔. Nothing worse than a bad ending to a show you’ve invested so much time and emotion into
"the show that had been knowing for centering powerful, layered female characters ended by signaling that progress and peace would come through naming a bland and emotionally distant man to rule" YES! That perfectly articulated one of the many problems I had with the last two or three seasons so well!
On the topic of sexual assault, it's kind of gross that the pilot episode showed Khal Drogo straight up raping Dany.
In the books, the scene is a bit more consensual. The same with Jamie and Cersei's scene around Joffrey's body. More consensual in the books, though still creepy.
It just shows that they wanted to use the trope of sexual assault to strengthen female characters from the very start.
they used this trope soooo much omg. there wasnt even that many rape scenes in the books (the god damn source material) the writers are so lazy
Literally even in the end when Sansa say that she was glad that all the horrible thing happened to her because she would have been a LiTtLe BirD All Her liFE was so dumb. You can get strong without sexual abuse ! 🤨
The sexual assault with Jamie was so bizarre, it made literally no sense and like???? In front of your dead sons body?
It is infuriating. Sorry no. The fucking trauma, of God knows how many poor individuals on this planet, is not some stupid plot device.
No it’s rape in the book too
There’s no such as an inherently bad character or storyline. I have no problem with Dany becoming an unhinged dictator in principle. It could have been a great character arc if handled carefully and if paced well.
But not the rushed, sloppy shitshow that we got.
Yeah, I'm not inherently against her becoming "The Mad Queen," but the character development was so rushed we all got whiplash.
"There’s no such as an inherently bad character or storyline" huh?
That makes absolutely no sense of course that's a thing
@@TheWinterGod1187 Yes, I very much agree with you.
This is my personal opinion, so it's okay if you disagree, I don't expect everyone to agree and I'm perfectky content with that.
The fact of the matter remains that the show could have been a deconstruction of the genre while sticking to the "classic ending" of the protagonist getting what they wanted.
It's just not a perfect peachy Disney-esque story. Doing a deconstruction of the journey alone rather than both the journey and the destination would have been ultimately the better way about this imo.
Speaking only from DT's perspective, she's a character who's had to make a lot of sacrifices, and would ultimately fall in love with her nephew.
You really don't have to do anything beyond that for the audience see that the show doesn't view history or politics through rose tinted glasses.
I think in attempt to subvert expectations as much as possible, they went through a very messy route that was ultimately unnecessary. DT is not mad, and JS is not a coward who doesn't want to take on any responsibilities.
And that's just two of the characters. They needed to both change the plot, and do a better job with characterization.
Again, just my personal thoughts.
She gave them more than one opportunity to save themselves, it's their fault the didn't take the opportunity.
the books do it much better, by having Dany question herself a lot. it’s something she clearly fears. but in the show, we rarely see anything other than confidence from her
I've always found it funny when people (and grrm himself) defended the graphic assaults as being part of history or war, like there's dragons and magic in the books but a world without SA?? That's too unbelievable.
If you're looking for a depiction of war without any SA, you can find it in Star Wars. If you watch GOT, or inhabit reality, there'll be some depictions of SA.
I think that's is fine If the directors and writers don't use this as background scene. We get it, that's a lot of rape, don't need to show me every episode just because you are a sick
George does a considerably better use of SA in the novels (with the exception of Jayne Poole's horrifying torture at the hands of Ramsey, that was gratuitous as hell, idc). Nevertheless, when it comes to the violence all main female characters go through, George NEVER goes all "hurr hurr, woman becomes strong BECAUSE OF being tortured/violated/harassed hurr hurr", he's already celebrating their own unique brand of strength (Olenna=megabrain, Sansa=compassion & stategic courtesy, Margaery=strategic charm/flirting, etc.). This leads me to the question of femininity. Cersei serves as the embodiment of the internalised misogyny most of the human population have. She hates all feminine things (because she equates them to weakness and stupidity) and thus every other woman who isn't her or her daughter (an extension of herself) because she thinks they pose a threat to her power. But then again Dumb&Dumber couldn't care less about writing women in a respectful, sensible and nuanced manner.
I remember jumping up in my chair when Eddard Stark was beheaded. That was what made the show so exciting in the first few seasons. No one was safe. I also sunk in my chair when Sansa thanked the men who abused her for making her so strong. What a missed chance.
Missandei being put back in chains (re-enslaved) and murdered, was reason enough to have the Unsullied sack the city. They watch their boss find love, giving them hope they can have it too, then it’s snatched away from him. It would make sense that they decide in that moment that they want revenge, and these random people represent all that’s been taken away from them, all they’ll never have. This could’ve been achieved with a few lines of well placed dialog.
Yep but that would have given far too much perpective to Greyworm, and it was never really established that he was that close with the other unsullied.
@@muvaofpearl Not close to them no, but he was their leader, their boss. They’d all be aware of things going on in his life, especially his beautiful girlfriend.
Yeah, this one, in particular, makes me fume with rage.
Westeros abolished slavery 4000 years prior to the series, so more like she was imprisoned before execution; which, why? What do you gain Cersei? Dany gave them several chances to surrender and they squandered them, unfortunately for the civilian population.
Seeing people justify the murder of thousands of innocent people because of the death of one character they knew makes me wonder if they were really paying any attention to the show.
I really feel sorry for emilia being forced to do nudity when she didn't want to she didn't deserve to be put in such a situation
Is there an article of source about this that I can read? 😅❤️
If you believe in female empowerment, it cannot exist in the absence of accountability. Emilia was not forced to go nude, and this is not to downplay harassment or sexist creepy men. Albeit, Emelia isnt just a woman she's also an actress. Emilia chose to audition for GOT. It was very clear what her role would be, and what that would entail. There were 5 asiof books out already before there was even a single season of GOT. There's no feasible, nor rational argument that can be made that would substantiate the claim that she was "forced." You seriously can't just go around and say crazy shit like that.
@@user-vh9ir5eq7h just because emilia is an actress doesn't mean that she can't be uncomfortable with nudity even if she knew what her role was going to be like, there is no reason for you to be defending weird ass executives
GoT made Emilia rich and famous, one of the most successful actresses of our time. She knew very well what she would have to do as Dany and a lot of other talented young actresses wanted the role as well. Emilia made a decision that the role was worth the nudity. She was willing to pay that price back then, but appearently, she changed her mind. Thats understandable, but still seems unprofessional for such a talented, intelligent actress.
Yeah right that’s a huge part of what got people hooked in the beginning.
i literally tried rewatching game of thrones last week, starting fresh again with S1E1 but halfway through the episode i kind of died a little inside as i get flashbacks of the finale. it really broke my heart to see the show i followed and grew up with for almost 5 years ended in such a terrible way. i don't even like talking about the show in general anymore bcs how painful it is lmao :(
I think the craziest thing to me about the rape of Dany on her wedding night is that it didn’t happen that way in the books!
In the books it is very clearly consensual and the act of requesting Dany’s consent when she expects to be horrifically rape sets the tone of their marriage. She asks for assistance with learning about sex because SHE is displease with their sex life. SHE is not being fulfilled by their sex life and seeks help in improving it. It is only when Dany claims her power and her agency in their sex life that Drogo goes from dutiful spouse to loving, protective husband. Dany, who has only known the “love” of her brother is now able to blossom because the stable loving relationship she has with her husband. Now that she knows her power she exercises it to stand against her brother.
This is the actual story of Dany’s marriage to Drogo.
I never seen a series be so oversaturated on the media climate and then quicky forgotten and feel like everyone wants to forget it, is like that Jack Frost X Elsa ship that was everywhere and now the internet pretends it never liked it. Seriously you couldn't go anywhere without running across GOT memes or merchandise in stores and it was the Number one show that everyone was watching... and now NADA, like not even rewatching it during the Covid-19 shutdown when everyone is revisiting old shows and even Breaking Bad is getting some newer viewers. Is hilarious that all this happened because the writers wanted to finish it as soon as possible to work on Star Wars, only to later not even get the job they wanted and without any future projects, they got what they F@$^& deserved.
JELSA FOREVER
That still exists its just not as prevalent
😂 not at all on the same level, but whatever
Avatar: The Last Airbender from 2005 was getting revisited more than GOT. It's amazing how they just yeeted themselves from the cultural zeitgeist.
@@saininj makes me think about the stuff that's popular now dragon prince miracles ladybug she ra the boys will this stuff be favorably remembered and revisited or will they fade away with only a bitter taste in the mouth
Then there's The Sopranos, who's finale was controversial at the time but has become to be seen as a masterpiece. I doubt the GOT finale will get that treatment in the future.
Yeah after Lindsay Ellis's video I understood the Sopranos ending. That ending is every day of the rest of Tony's life since he won't quit. Makes good sense.
The problem wasn't just the series finale or even the last season. The first major plot holes started cropping up as early as season 5 and the show started getting really shitty in season 7. I guess we were just naive optimists who still held out hope the last episodes would find a way to wrap up at least some of the plot lines and that's why we were so disappointed by it.
I started to get suspicious of D&D when they killed off Ser Barristan Selmy, and tbh, to hear Ian McIlhenny tell it vs D&D tell it is so cringe. He is polite but honest about his perspective... quite gentlemanly, actually. But then D&D are just massive jerks about it and even make a joke about '.... wanting to kill that character even more....' after he tried arguing why he should be kept on. Anyone who is that unprofessional will always show it in worse, major ways.
Cue season 8 🙄🖕
This "subverting expectation" thing doesnt feel fresh. Why would I want to watch this show again,or remember it even when the whole plot was to shock us? Do you like Jaime? Whooops hes gonna get bad again and come back to Cersei.. They forgot that character development is important.
Nah the hand thing actually the books. And people go back to toxic exes. That was never as big a problem as people made it out to be. Dumb people decided subverting expectations was a bad thing because we live in a world where people don't know what they want, but generally want the same thing over and over- Look at the response to The Star Wars sequel series. TFA It's the exact same as New Hope😭TLJ- It didn't do what I wanted/expected so it sucks😭TRoS- It did exactly what we wanted expected. It sucks!😭
@@ImGonnaBlameTheMEEDUHSid Or it's just a cheap trick as a writer.
@@ImGonnaBlameTheMEEDUHSid tryna figure out why you mentioned the hand thing when OP didn't. Anyway, subverting expectations isn't necessarily a bad thing but the way D&D did it was
@@ImGonnaBlameTheMEEDUHSid no lol ot was written last minute they confirmed it. The show writer didnt have enlught material anymore so they fucked everything up
@@ImGonnaBlameTheMEEDUHSid No, the Last Jedi doesn't suck just because it doesn't do what some fans wanted it to do. That conclusion is completely out of touch. Watch some legitimate breakdowns of why the Last Jedi sucked. The plinkett review of it goes in depth.
I always feel weird that SA is just the go to to make women characters suffer. But no one has to deal with the emotional, mental or physical fall out. Men dont even have to worry about it, despite it being something that could happen to them too
Exactly. It's so cheap. And it makes these ppl stronger. Sorry but what kind of statistics suggests such a thing?
I never watched the series thought this was gross and cheap and so typical.
@@sonder8310 I guess the systemic oppression, dehumanization and policing of our bodies is just exciting enough.
it was so weird and jarring watching rape scenes occur in the background while the characters we're supposed to be paying attention to are just talking.
Identity Crisis [DC] *sucks.*
@@thegreatpage5912 Yeah but it's really super weird. Rapist x Victims are just horrible but are so popular!
I'm Hispanic. I'm brown. No one gave af about race when it came to GOT. When they made strong female characters, it seemed genuine. When they made POC who had interesting characters, it seemed genuine. I hated the last two seasons because of the terrible writing and the lack of closure to many story lines. The terrible development of so many characters. It was all that. I dont need to be patronized with POC characters just to have them there. That's ridiculous.
….Don’t tell me you’re cool with the stereotypically hypersexualized Sand Sisters
@@beckyweiss6072 there were hypersexualized characters throughout the whole series. Did you watch the first two season?
@@david3188col you were talking specifically of POC female characters, no?
@@beckyweiss6072 no I was talking about the part of the video where they think people cared about race representation and the "turn" GOT took. Why do people care if theres a token character thats of their race? Does it make you feel better? There were plenty of female characters of color like Missandei or Ellaria sand that were strong and were important in the series. Did I need a male mestizo looking (which what relevance would it have to the world of GOT to have someone who is Hispanic) person in the show? No. There were zero asian people in the show. No one cares. Make a good show where all the characters are POC, great. But dont just needlessly throw in characters to make idk who feel better. Again, thats just patronizing af to me.
@@david3188col oh you mean the “token” characters. If that’s the case then yes I get what you mean. Put in characters that are human, not token characters that you can sit there and spot and be like oh look! Then it feels like the producers are just making a check mark.
I’m a reader of the books so I’m honestly not enthused with how Missandei and ellaria are presented (especially ellaria). Missandei parroted praise at Dany half the time and the rest was either about her experience in slavery or her romance with greyworm. Outside of that, who is she? What are her opinions on the world around her?
We don’t know that.
And ellaria? Oh dear god. She was potential wasted. In the books she *didnt* want revenge, even though her daughters did. And she said some really great lines about how useless revenge is.
There's a little part of me thankful that GoT had such a hated ending because it meant people had finally stopped talking about it.
i mean at least they talked about an actually good show, not some mediocre blockbusters that are everywhere nowadays
The ending of GOT was so poorly handled, the show has been erased from Pop Culture. Now, it’s a cautionary tale…
Even though I loved when Cersei blew up that building, I still believe the show died with Tywin Lannister.
Cersei should have faced an uprising after blowing up the sept. But literally no one mentions it after!
cinematically it was a great scene but in a series about the consequences of actions it was out of place. This is when the show became a soap opera (really in season 5 with Arya's story) where things are done for surprise reactions more than narrative sense
@@RoninDave, to be fair, that’s more season 7’s fault. During her coronation, you do see the fear in the faces of the king’s landing citizens but all that’s ignored next episode
Exactly, the show died with Tywin. I stopped watching halfway into the second episode of season 5. Already then, the writing was on the wall.
During the lockdown, so many people were revisiting old shows they loved, but GOT ended so badly, I didn't hear anyone revisiting it.
I didn't mind Danny's descent into madness if its done ryt, it could be a really good steup because of her father's madness. I think the books will go in the same direction with a way better execution. GRRM has mentioned many times that expowerment fantasies wasn't the point of his story. It's meant to be a story about people fighting in opposition to their own heart. In that , season 7 and 8 failed. The thing that RUINED the show for me was 'aNd wHo hAs a bEtTeR sToRy, tHaN bRaN tHe bRoKeN'.
Aerys Madness is attributed to his "nature" as far as a "nature vs nature" goes like he went mad due to the trauma from the Defiance Of Duskendale which mentally, emotionally, and physically deteriorated him, meaning Dany never had this imaginary contrived dormant trait that the crowd who swears up and down 'Daenerys is obviouthly going to go mad and dethtroy KINGS LANDING, its the only way it'll ever end clearly' tries to argue. She's the complete antithesis of that character people want her to become.
I loved Breaking Bad and GOT equally but after the GOT finale I suddenly realized how amazing Breaking Bad is.
I think the finale of BB sucks. The biggest bad is 5 bikers, not the cartel? Walt's final brain child is a machine gun? Jesse's closure is him shouting? I don't know, I thought it was lacking
They finish the show before they drop the ball. 3-5 seasons might be the sweet spot for a good ending.
@@vietnow4611 they weren't sure whether they'd get season 4 or not which put them in a bit of a bind, wrap up all loose ends by season 3 even though they might be rushed, or plan for another series which might not happen? I really liked the finale for BB, but the Nazi bikers really are saved from complete obscurity by Jesse Plemons with his standard weird, somewhat unsettling, charisma.
Mad Men is the superior AMC show.
@@georgeprchal3924 Mad Men is just THE superior show. I watched it for the first time last year and I swear it's the best prestige drama ever
It´s like that one relationship you once had, the one you thought would last forever. Then you realize you had been gaslighted into believing things were fine when they weren´t (after season 4). Now, do I think fondly of some moments we shared? Sure, for a minute or two. Do I want to go back to that ex? Hell no.
I'm a little puzzled... So it's wrong to give our characters plot armor in the last seasons, but you want plot armor on POC and LGBTQ+ characters?
They never said gay and POC people shouldn’t die. They indicated the lack of nuance for poc and LGBTQ characters as well as women. interesting you have no issue with the women part
@@parkinglotedits6544 What do you mean, issue with the women part?
@@CrisValentina88 That I find it interesting you asked this question about POC and LGBTQ+ but did not ask about women, whom they talked about in a similar fashion.
So all those newborns named - Cersi, Khaleesi, and Tyrion are now 10 years old. Time really goes by fast.
Tacky af
Argueably, GOT began to decline in Season 5, when all the characters began to lose their purpose, their goals, their motivations, their essence, or all at once. Not for Lack of Material, but lack of effort.
They should have ended it where the book have ended. Let it be unfinished rather than give a shit ending
It's hard for them to claim "it's dated because it was normal for a show in 2011 to sideline its female or POC characters, by 2019 that wasn't normal"....when it HAD that in earlier seasons but sidelined them by the later seasons, relative to ITSELF.
I did think that Dany's and Drogo's "romance" seemed more of a symptom of just how bad Dany had been treated her whole life by her brother. Comparatively, Drogo was more respectful and understanding. But I understand that this is not necessarily a correct reading, just the impression I got when I read it, and that reading it as simply a lack of... understanding by a male author is perfectly legit (especially considering the amount of other problematic stuff)
A 13 year old cannot consent or have a healthy relationship with an adult man.
@@SnazzyArcade Yes. What I was trying to say was not that the relationship was good, but that in Dany's eyes, it was good, because the only thing she could compare it to was her relationship with her brother.
I think people forget that Drogo also meant power. Dany's forced marriage would have not been too different from other bad marriages in the world of GoT but Dany, unlike most bad marriages in GoT, got handed power and rank. Drogo killed her brother who abused her all her life specifically for the crime of abusing her. Of course she thought he was swell all things considered, especially once he softened. She did not grow up in a nurturing environment like, say, Sansa, with Ned wanting her to find her a perfect knight.
@@SnazzyArcade She wasn't 13 in the show.
A thing I've also noticed is that I've never felt like rewatching GoT. It was fun yet never stuck with me on an emotional level, which gave it a low rewatch value.
The parts that DID stick with me - like Jaime Lannister's slow redemption and relationship with Brienne - were completely undone in the end. To the very end, I thought Jaime deliberately broke Brienne's heart so she wouldn't go after him, and he'd be the one to bring Cersei's reign to an end. But, no, they die in each other's arms as the city is demolished around them. What an utter shame.
This show is like an ex. Once, you were in love and everything was wonderful, but by the end you never want to think of them again.
This is so spot on!! I had a thought though, has the Take thought about looking into the female characters in 'League of Legends: Arcane' ? In my opinion, the series has managed to create some of the best empowering, strong and interesting female characters I've seen in TV so far. The women in the show engage in rough, messy fights without a guys coming to save the day, they are complex and multidimensional as well as breaking gender norms. It shows women pulling the strings, having equal or more power to the men in the show and even in smaller situations where the woman was holding a shotgun to a potential house invader while the husband stood back, was amazing to see! There are obviously a few things that could probably be done even better, but overall I think the female characters of the show were amazing and I loved watching them. It was in my opinion one of the most progressive presentations of modern women!
the problem is D&D
they were over it, they didn't give that many fcks abt the source material, they didn't want input from IT _or_ the actors... they thought they were good enough writers for their half-assed "effort" would be good enough (they're not), they were 'over it', but also too arrogant to pass it on to people who DO care about themes, characters & their motivations and the world GRRM built for them.
You can tell D&D are hacks as early as Season 2.
which is maddening because they could just hand the show over to other producers like any other shows in hollywood but for some egoistical reason, didn't.
I think the video didn’t go far enough into the decline. To me it’s a gradual decline with a whimper that everyone hated. It’s not just the shows depiction of female nudity and violence against women that became problematic, not just the plot lines that went nowhere, it’s was everything. It was how no one could duplicate martin’s writing once the book series stalled, it’s how due to budget limits and the limits of televised adaptions led to to great material being taken out, it’s how characters from the book became more simpler for the television series (example, Tyrion is a bad man in the books, an interesting man but someone who is not good)., The producers just seemed to not care about small things that eventually turned into bigger problems. Why care about characters forgetting about facts or that there are cofeee cups in aired scenes when you know ppl will watch the series regardless and you’ll make money? That’s what eventually happened. It’s like Star Wars series, a series of mistakes and bad assumptions and egos from executives.
Perhaps another example of how the shows producers failed to keep the show in good quality, is the “rape” scene between Verdi and Jaimie. No one intended it to be a rape scene. Not the actors, not the crew. But because of bad editing it seemed to be a rape scene. Everyone called it out rightfully. Rather than ADMIT to the mistake the producers and )”(to an extent the actors) refused to clear up the matter. And then came cringe worthy comments.
It’s a female centered channel I don’t think they care
I see what you're saying but TBF you'd need a 3 hour video (at least) to analyse everything that went wrong with the GOT TV series
it feels sacrilegious to even compare those two shows
As this video said even George RR Martin was oblivious to how misogynistic his writing and apparent views on sexual violence are. If he'd kept writing, there would've been much better writing and character development. But the show would still have been racist, sexist, and homophobic.
Still bitter that Margaery went out like that (citadel explosion). *Margaery & Olenna Tyrell* were the best characters imo ♡ *House of Roses* needs a comeback ♡
What made the fall hit so hard was that GOT wasn't just different, it was meant to be so - deeper, more mature. It also brought new fans into the genre. Had it been just a regular saturday night fantasy show, I don't thing people would've mind it burning out so ingraciously.
I tried watching it again the other day. Then I remembered last seasons and felt so so disappointed that I just couldn't do it.
Game of Thrones should have ended in season 6 because season 6 was so perfect. the last two seasons just felt like they wanted to just put something out and those two seasons are the most forgettable seasons.
The show wasn't as good after the Red Wedding.
Season 6 was rubbish too, imo, it was just harder to realise because the dialogue at least was still good back then. The show stopped being good after season 4.
I would have ended the series with Season 6 and leave it to our imagination what happens next.
No, I wish they were forgettable.
I'd love to see an essay on the show The 100 and how it went from a simple concept with compelling characters and relationships to a show with overly-complicated plots and butchered every main character
true
This is why I love this YT channel, I had never appreciated how often GoT uses the Phoenix Moment trope, and how often causal rape was depicted without exploring the emotional damage of violence against women. I don't like how all the main female characters were depicted as strong because they were able to move on from their trauma (off screen), as if this is what sets them apart from other "weaker" women. As for Missandei's death, I think the show wanted to needed to kill off a few brand name characters for the sake of subversion. The choice to kill the only female POC is really telling of how outdated and misogynistic the show writers perspective is.
Although some interesting points have been raised, I still think that the show lost its relevance because of the bad ending and the writers, despite years working with the material, did not understand (or accept) the themes, trajectories and characters of GRRMartim .
It never ceases to amaze me about GOT how quickly the ending basically killed the momentum dead. In general I think if you are disappointed to a ridiculous degree with the ending of a show/film/game then you will never want to revisit it because you see it all building up to just nothing.
What people reject is the ending not the grey morality, nudity, or casting. That was perfect. No modern show with modern "culture" comes close to GOT's popularity.
There's a lot of the final season where I actually don't mind the eventual choices that were made but I do mind the execution:
* Daenerys losing her mind and burning king's landing to the ground - don't mind it, I like how it mirrors her father, I like how her brutality and madness has been hinted at throughout the show. Tbh I think a lot of people just wanted to see her as this unproblematic powerful female character when she was never that. I just wish they had properly explored her mental state leading up to a during those actions
* Jon killing Daenerys - don't mind it, I like how it mirrors Jaime being the king slayer and shows how even someone as honourable as Jon can be forced to break his oath by the fucked up world they live in. Honestly the execution of this wasn't bad either, both of the actors were great in that final scene and the writing wasn't bad.
* Bran becoming the new king and not Jon - don't mind it, I think it was them breaking the wheel by moving away from war, conquering and just killing the ruler to take their place. This was them choosing someone more qualified to rule (in that he has access to the whole history of Westeros), will be unlikely to bring the 7 kingdoms back into war by having a good story to cement his grip on the throne and is supported by qualified people like Tyrion to help make the best decisions for the people
They did majorly fuck up a couple of characters/storylines tho:
* Jaime's entire character arc was fucked in the last 2 eps, he should have returned to kill Cersei and fulfil the prophecy that she would be killed by her brother
* Jon should have been the one to kill the Night King w a sword from the fire and fulfil the prophecy of the Lord of Light
Think how interesting it would've been to take a girl boss white savior like Danaerys and actually turn her into the villain of the show, that should be the like the most interesting story ever. Show us a person who thinks they're good and they're doing things for the right reasons, a person who thinks that them having power is what's best for everyone because they're the right person to wield it. Take that person and turn all their shit upside down and show us that even someone with the best intentions can make catastrophic errors that lead to great loss of life. Not because they wanted or intended to but because they couldn't avoid it. That's an interesting fucking story instead of girl get angry, girl burn city. When she burned down king's landing, the fanbase should've been split on whether or not she did the right thing, that's interesting, that's what GoT used to be.
You are so right
I agree!
No . That's the most basic thing ever.
Game of Thrones its known to subvert steropitycal fantasy trope, we already seen a thousand and thousand of times of the "good character who became bad because " ; I dont know why people always act like its something new.
Jaime who we thought was bad we saw his human side and same with Cersei. BUT with Daenerys its different :
People in her world already see her as bad, in Meeren the slave master dont like her because she's " erasing their culture" , she's a woman who has an army and a lot of people already make rumor about her saying that since she's the mad king daughter she's going to end up like him.
Obvioysly she's not perfect but if she after all whole trying to be different and proving to be different than he father, living off poverty, being abused,trying ti help people become mad it wouldnt make sense.
She defintely has a little of a savior complex but you can't call her a "white savior", she doesnt live in our word. Her race is Valeryan and in Asoiaf everyone can become a slave even Tyrion was. If you have read the books you know that all the slaves there go from a pale shade to the most dark. If you judge her by her skin like in our world that it would erase the whole concept.
@@iside2373 That was a lot of words to say absolutely nothing. A hyper conservative reading of this show isn't gonna do you any favors.
@@herefortheshrimp1469 what lol did you even read what i said? Im gonna do a summary for you 😋: i dont think Daenerys is gonna go mad because she's already seen as mad by other character in their world so it would be too predictable and unorginal.
Better? 🤔
My takeaways from this, as someone who never watched the show and thus still finds it hilarious how hard the show slammed face first into the dirt for its finale, are twofold:
1. It is likely best to only adapt works that are actually finished, with few exceptions, unless your adaptation itself is self-contained.
2. It is even more likely best to avoid naming your children after fictional characters, at least if all of said fictional character's story isn't complete. (Even if they are, you're still chancing a prequel, sequel, or reboot screwing up things for your child.)
Please now observe a moment of silence for all the children stuck with the name "Daenerys".
Tbh Daenerys is still a really pretty name and the character is still quite iconic, regardless of her ending so idk why parents would regret naming their girls after her. A person is obviously not the same as a tv show character that they share names with? Lol
@@dipannitasarah5521 Thank you for the illuminating reminder that a real-life person is not a fictional character. I was unaware. /s
As for whether the name is "iconic" (whatever that means, especially given its overuse) or pretty, it's certainly debatable. It's more an issue that a) the name clearly came from and is associated with a series that the children's own parents probably dislike now, which is both a bit funny and a bit sad, and b) that even far more common names have become maligned by relatively less and fallen out of favor with the public. Recent examples of this are Karen and Donald I imagine for obvious, even more unfair reasons.
Is the child doomed just because they're named "Daenerys"? No. Are they going to have more than a few people raise an eyebrow or otherwise react unfavorably to their name even if it's just to snicker or roll their eyes? Probably. Not the end of their world--not like they need to worry about that; older generations are working on that with climate change and more wars--or anything, but it's also an avoidable disadvantage when studies of the U.S. at least have shown that people with more "unusual" names tend to have more difficulty landing a job and so on.
Again, that's clearly unfair, but that's unfortunately the world we live in, and I doubt it changes anytime soon. If people still want to name their kids after a character with an unusual name from the series despite that, then more power to them I guess as long as the name isn't "Reek" or something else that reeks of child abuse obviously. I just rather doubt such naming is still happening after how the show ended anyway.
I think the Targaryen ending was always meant to be tragic. Although nothing as sloppy and stupid as the final season. I personally find Daenerys quite a beautiful name. But I agree with all the rest.
@@XandriaRavenheart Yeah, agreed about her seeming more likely than not to end up a tragic character from the on-set just from what I know as an outsider. Well, at least the HBO version even though it's not like George R. R. Martin is likely ever finishing the books at this point anyway.
The impeding tragedy itself does no disservice to the name for the most part, even if it doubtless would have probably led fewer people to name their children that if her fate were clearer since most people like happier endings. It's not like you see people naming their daughters "Jocasta" (yet) let's say. The hilarious (for non-fans) and infuriating (for fans) writing of the last (two) season(s) are what we're all talking about here as that's basically what fouled up everything.
The name itself is fine I guess, and I can certainly see how people would think it (still) sounds pretty. It's unfortunately just the context now surrounding it that screws up things, which again is unfair but also actual reality. The name itself is faultless, but the progenitor of it is now "iconic" for a quick, deep, and bloody dive into insanity as she ended up another bog standard "people with mental illnesses are dangerous" character who only stands out anymore because she used dragons as her weapons. Yay....
(Personally I'm indifferent to the name, but I'm not going to hold it against anyone I see it since they likely didn't name themselves if they still have it as a name. So the most I can see myself doing is pausing for a second to make sure I'm seeing the name correctly and then moving on...short of seeing like "Daenerys" with an extra "y" or something, e.g. "Daynerys". Then my eye might twitch that the kid's parents thought they needed to make already unusual name even more unusual and "special" and complicate their child's life even more, but that's still not the kid's fault, so it's whatever.)
I mean, Daenerys was an imperialist from season three onward and her arc was heavy on white feminist girl bossing, so that’s on the parents for not seeing the nuance.
Thank you! It’s crazy how much I loved this show. Misogyny, racism, and fear of the other were the true winners of the iron throne. Especially the misogyny. GoT season 8 was the most misogynistic thing I’ve ever scene by a mile.
Thank you @TheTake for articulating the feelings and frustration we felt not just the ending but how the whole journey we went throughout GOT. It shows us the oldest saying of art that "art can not be rushed."
One of the reasons it’s dated because it’s already lost all of its relevancy due to its final season. No one can bare to watch (or rewatch) it anymore, thus it’s fading out of everyone’s minds. Shows are only relevant so long as people still care.
The lenght of the last two seasons have always been a point of criticism for me, i could see some what they were trying to do to end the series, but with the last seasons being 7 and 6 episodes thats nearly a whole seasons worth of story that was cut out and just not explored.
Could have used those extra episodes to show a slow burn of Danerys going crazy
S1-S4: TV perfection (mostly)
S5: Above average but tons of problems
S6: Yeah, these writers just aren’t good without the source material. Below average
S7: WTF?! There’s no way it can get worse
S8: It’s truly impressive as to how bad it is
Personally, I’ll still rewatch the show and rewatch scenes from it often but damn it’s unforgivable what they did in the final seasons.
I was one of few people who watched the pilot and went "no way in hell". The amount of violence against women and children let me know what kind of show it was. Glad it's finally getting its proper dressing down. Long time coming. 👍🏻
I think GOT also had a downfall due to how long we had to wait for the final season. We had to wait 2 YEARS!!!!
And during those 2 years we had time to sit and stew over what could happen. So when the final season did air with only 6 episodes, a lot of fans were disappointed.
Even if it came out a year later, that shitty ending was always going to be a disappointment because it made no sense and meant for shock value
@@evileyez504 I agree. Just stating my opinion.
ah, the bbc sherlock predicament 😔
It’s the fact that those episodes were horrible too
@@dogcollar I don’t get what you’re saying.
Daenerys is my favorite character in the book and since season 1 I was disappointed with how they handled her character. Daenerys is never power hungry in the books, all she really wants is a simple life and stability. Even with two books left I can’t see her becoming a tyrant however if she does become mad I’m ok with it because I’m confident GRRM will do it in a way that makes sense. In the book thus far she has agency and is smart and intuitive and never needs her male counterparts to calm her down. If anything they were the ones telling her to be more violent while she seeks a better way.
Her first night with Drogo was consensual, that and Drogo never forced himself on her that night. Daenerys tried many times to save her brother Viserys, was even willing to give him the dragon eggs so he could buy an army. But when he threatened to kill her unborn child she knew she couldn’t save him from himself. Even after his passing it is said she didn’t smile for weeks. When she hatched her dragons she named one of them after Viserys so “his dragon can do what he could not.” Despite all the hurt he caused her, she reflects on him and comes to understand how he became cruel and weak yet still misses him all the same. She is even grateful for the insight he did give her because without it she would never know Westeros, her family legacy or how to feed her dragons. She never hated Viserys nor was ever cold about his death.
When Drogo’s Khalasar goes to sack Mirri Maz Duur’s village so she can get the iron throne (she now feels responsible for) immediately learns the cost of war and realizes that she’s the reason why the people of Lhazareen are now suffering. That moment is what started her campaign to end slavery because she knew first hand what that was like, it clicked to her that the small folk suffer when the big lords flex military might. So, with the power she had at the time she chose to save people she could, namely women to prevent them from being abused. On the contrary she also realizes she can’t take the Dothraki to Westeros because of their aggressive culture, they would reduce Westeros to ash. That’s why she acquires the Unsullied, they’re more disciplined. She wants to make her kingdom happy and wants the people to smile when they she her. Plus by the time she gets to Meereen she is wary of war and procrastinates going to Westeros and comes to realizes she can’t even rule the 3 kingdoms of Meereen and questions how she can rule 7.
I could go on but this is already long enough.
I’m not saying Daenerys is owed a happy life on the iron thrones however she is not a tyrant like the show made her out to be. The frame work GRRM set up for Daenerys is that of a mother, à la Princess Diana meets Mother Teresa.
You worded this so perfectly! Dany's book character is so inspiring, I feel like A Dance with Dragons is completely ignored. The entire book is Dany battling the need for war vs her want for peace. That is her heart at conflict that George to loves to write about. She allows the slavers to walk all over to in the name of soft power; she dons the Tokar, locks up her dragons, puts off her conquest of Westeros, traps herself in an unhappy marriage, allows slavery outside of Meereen, and allows the fighting pits to open again. She loses her inner dragon and forgets that her people are NOT the slavers, but the freedmen. She finally realizes after Drogon flies her away and she's in the Dothraki Sea that righteous wars NEED to be fought, her purpose is to make her freedmen happy not the slavers, she cannot topple a thousands of years old slave system and uphold it by being nice. That's just not how it works. That entire book is also Dany learning that dragons are destructive forces with the death of Hazzea. Having her burn KL to teach her a lesson would be repetitive, especially since I'm certain that she's going to burn down the inner city of Volantis first.
"I could go on but this is already long enough". NO PLEASE GO ON, PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW. very well put.
Dated? Don’t know what you’re talking about…literally every other show since game of thrones is still under its shadow, with the exception of Succession. Game of Thrones set the bar up so high it’s only in competition with itself til this day!!
Thank you so much for this video. It's hard for me to articulate what went wrong with this show, but you guys did it perfectly. I'm still heartbroken (dramatic but accurate) about how bad the ending of GoT was. The showrunners clearly were done, and instead of maybe passing the reins and moving on themselves, they committed to delivering an ending, likely more for their own closure rather than to finish the story well. It was such a big part of my life during a tough time so it still makes me sad to think about. I know it's "just a show," but for some of us, things like this are a necessary escape.
The reason season 1-4 were so great was because GRRM was heavily involved in the script writing. After he left, the show turned downward, the plot and characters developments were thrown out the window. D&D really screwed up the show and now I can't even rewatch the show and enjoy it like I used to. I do, however, continue to enjoy GRRM works and reread ASOIAF.
Yep. Dorne being bungled was when I went "this is completely lost, there is no way the ending is going to go well" and how right I was.
Since The Walking Dead is ending likely this year, it would be great to do a video on it in a similar fashion into what happened with the show. Like GOT a major cable series that was once a big part of pop culture that ScreenPrism/The Take can do great at examining!
I'm honestly shocked that TWD is still going. I thought it ended a while back.
Good idea 👀
@@kittykittybangbang9367 same i honestly didn't think it was still going on.
lol the walking dead will continue for at least a decade. that milking cow is nowhere near run out my man.
@@kittykittybangbang9367 It got better once Angela Kang took over.
love when people are like « daenerys was always mad all along ! » when males in position of power have done far worse to protect or avenge themselves but no one bat and eye then. Also it’s not that ending who frustrates us. It’s how poorly it was executed. You don’t just sacrifice two of your dragons to save the world just to later on kill everyone because your best friend got killed and you didn’t get laid by jon snow, it’s sooo insulting to her character and prove the mediocrity how these two show runners when it comes to raw creativity.
It just goes to show, every story needs a beginning, middle, and end, and in most cases the end is the most important part. The biggest problem with many US series is that the writers get to the middle still having no idea of what the ending will be, just trying to stretch it out as much as they can until diminishing ratings dictate that the end must come soon. Money is the enemy of art.
Nah; any art needs at least _some_ amount of resources/capital/etc. put into it to get made. _Profit motive_ incentivized above all else is what kills art.
The Ides of March feels like the perfect day to talk about this. I don't know why, but it does.
Edit: Oh, right, stabby stabby and doom.
Seasons 1-4: Masterpiece
Seasons 5-6: Excellent but many actions lacked consequences.
Seasons 7-8: Above average TV but a dumpster fire compared to previous seasons.
Please, season 5 was garbage
Correctamundo
@@leogallo835 compared to seasons 1-4 some parts yes.
@@Alchemist1330 Nope.
@@leogallo835 so you don't think season 5 was garbage?
Thank you so much for so perfectly putting into this video what I felt but couldn’t articulate. My husband wanted to re-watch this series. Even though I’m the one that read all the books, and got him started on the show, I just couldn’t do it. Now I fully understand why.
3 good things that came out of Season 8
1: What Went Wrong Videos
2: Music Videos
3: Fix it Fics From Competent Writers
I was a huge GoT fan and this is literally one of the first times I’ve even thought about the show since it ended. Season 6 had its good parts but otherwise it went downhill after S5 so fast… I’m still excited for the books tho, if that EVER happens.
Note that Drogo raping Dany is even worse if you consider this is NOT how their relationship plays out in the books.
Yeah, you can say the same for Sansa's rape. In the books Sansa isn't Ramsey's assault victim it's her friend Jeyne Poole and she doesn't become empowered at all, she is physically, mentally and emotionally scarred to the point where she is one of the most pitiful characters
Well in the books it's not much better🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
She's still raped in the book dude.
Yeah some of the rape makes sense for the show but Drogo and Jaime should not have been raping their SOs. I can see Ramsay though cause he's a sadisitic piece of shit and there's no way he WOULDN'T rape Sansa. I mean-look at what he did to Theon. He nearly raped him on several occasions and tortured him systemically for fun. Jaime raping Cersei made about as much sense as Bran becoming king though.
Still, u was pretty scared when Dany was 13 and did… all those things... especially since i read the book not knowing what to expect when i was the same age as her. I understand the context of the time though
I think from Mereen onwards it was clear Daenerys was going to become a villain, but they really needed more time to explore this so fans of her character could see the evolution and also reflect on previous plot points in a new light. Instead we got a ham-fisted 2 episode plotline
The way Peter Dinklage delivers the line "And who has a better story than Bran the Broken..." he sounds like he doesn't even believe what he is saying.