The Craziest Retcons in Naruto
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
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Chidori wasn’t originally lightning style and had no chakra nature
What?
That is completely false. Chidori was created when Kakashi failed to add his lightning change in chakra nature to a Rasengan. Meaning by definition it requires lightning change in chakra nature, that's how he created it.
Maybe you are confused by how only Kakashi's Chidori has the nickname "Lightning Cutter"? That is just a nickname given to his Chidori because of the legendary moment when he sliced a Lightning Bolt in half with it. From what we know it is still a regular Chidori like Sasuke's, he was just very skilled at using it when he cut the Lightning in half.
@@DiamonDust Lmao people in this comment section know nothing, don't bother explaining it to him even the youtuber liked the comment. No signs of intelligence anywhere
@@AK-MS27 I leave comments like these in some pointless attempt to halt the spread of misinformation lol. I'm just now realizing that they meant "originally" as in when introduced, but there wasn't anything to suggest that chakra natures didn't exist to my knowledge, so I don't see how it would be a retcon to say it's lightning chakra.
Yeah, wasn't it just your hand wrapped in chakra made visible by the friction against surfaces and turned into a blade by traveling stupid fast
I find it hard to believe that people didn't find out naruto was minato's son with his last name being "Uzumaki" and the ONLY Uzumaki in their village was the wife of the fourth hokage. On top of this, Naruto had the EXACT SAME FEATURES as minato other than the wiskers. To add on to this, sensory type ninjas can tell what clan a person's from based on their chakra signature meaning any sensory ninja could have sensed both Uzumaki and Namekaze chakra inside of naruto and yet... nobody knew some fucking how
Also why risk loosing the nine tails by sending Naruto out on missions?
@@quincyquincy4764 exactly. Makes no sense to train jinchuriki in anything other than how to transform into their beast and maintain control. You might say well how does he fight? I’m pretty sure as a giant Kaiju you’ll manage.
I can sort of excuse the civilians not knowing stuff cause they literally aren't classified to know stuff, especialy since we don't actually know if people outside of minatos friend group knew about him being married to kushina or that they were having a baby
like minato is a kage so making your loved one public is kinda dumb considering the 3rd war just ended and most of the other villages kinda hated him and pergnancy canonicly weakens the jinjuruki seal, so they might have genuinly not told anyone except close friends for security reasons.
What I am more confused about is how they do know that he is/has the kyuubi in the first place cause literally how would they know that?
Bro as a kid reading the manga for part 1 I knew Minato (then only know as the Fourth Hokage) was Naruto’s dad so how could the leaf villagers not 😭 never sat right with me 😭
i thought everyone knew he was minato's son but were still afraid that he loses control of the 9 tails and kills everyone in the village. that was my assumption on why they still treated naruto like crap.
One of the ones that always bugged me was just how much the Byakugan was hyped up in the beginning. I think they said it was better or at the very least on par with the Sharingan and the Hyuugas where the village's strongest clan. At the very beginning of the series that seemed plausible, but as the show goes on, especially into Shippuden that just becomes more and more of a ridiculous notion. It seems to basically just give users telescope vision and the ability to see chakra flow, whereas the sharingan just keeps getting more and more powers added to it and evolved forms.
Exactly. So much wasted potential.
Byakugan became irrelevant once sharingan got to mangekyou. Sad
Not really, the Byakugan was strong just not in comparable to the Godlike ability of the Uchiha clan. The Hyuugas are the strongest clan in the village because Uchiha are gone. That’s why Neji wanted to challenge Sasuke to prove even though he’s a branch clan member, he’s stronger than the people who are oppressed him.
tell me a moment in part one when they say they were the strongest clan in the village. Kakashi in chapter 16 and also in the anime (at least 2 separate episodes) declares Uchiha as a strongest. Byakugan was never hyped up, they just said that in terms of visual clarity it's better than sharingan not as a whole.
Isn't Boruto all about the Byakugan and how those eyes are directly from the Otsutsuki clan that the sage of six paths is from? I haven't seem much but im pretty sure they're a huge deal now?
It's funny that Kishimoto decided halfway through the series that the existence of a nine-tailed fox should imply the existence of a species with eight other creatures possessing varying amounts of tails.
The existence of a 9 Tailed Fox implies 8 Tailed Beasts
@@KatoBeyond you’re joking right?
@@symbolik4372 In addition, they’re known for being extremely loyal
One tailed Shukaku already existed back in the Chunin Exams so it really wasn't far fetched
@@mrcarter2229 Shukaku is based on Tanuki lore which is really common in Japan. Not to mention how Gaara was portrayed became incongruous with how Jinchuriki were portrayed later
Sakura being a genjutsu/taijutsu specialist would've been the perfect way to differentiate her fighting style from Tsunade's rather than just making her completely the same but stronger
Genjutsu doesn't work since most of the main bad guys had the sharingan.
@@allworksnew yeah, but it would atleast make her overall more powerful overall considering most people apart from uchiha don't have much genjutsu resistance
Plus her chackra control is so good she's considered immune to genjutsu, so imagine how powerful one's she casts would be
creed sakura is trash regardless
I agree. I get that she had to train with a Sanin, but that “cha” thing is ridiculous. It also makes sense that she’s a medical ninja like Kabuto, but he used his chakra control and genjutsu brilliantly(I also didn’t like the snake thing he turned into). It’s like they were building up cool things for Sakura, and then they started not to care.
@@knightlight5497 yeah, i love her and Tsunade's brute strength and it's cool that Sakura took after her master and all, but what i find ridiculous is the fact that someone as smart as Sakura would choose to only use things she's taught and not branch out in any way and try something different
Funny hearing people try and defend the obvious tailed-beast retcon. It's soooo obvious Kishi never planned for them to be a set and only retrospectively done so as a quick and easy way to add more super powerful monsters without adding much backstory.
Firstly, Gaara literally referred to Shukaku as the *old monk sealed inside a teakette. (Which was later retconned in the war arc as the monk being his jinchuuriki
Secondly, Shukaku was always referred to as Shukaku and not the one-tails despite the plot point of no one caring to learn the names of the tailed-beasts
Thirdly, Gaara doesn't gain a red cloak like every other Jinchuuriki
And Fourthly, Shukaku *NEVER* reacts to Gamabunta and Naruto joint-transforming into Kurama, his supposed brother back then.
When you put all these points together, it paints a definitive picture that Kishi retconned the tailed-beasts into existence. Just because both Kurama and Shukaku coincidentally happened to have tails doesn't mean they were planned to be a part of a set. That's like saying because Goku always had a tail Akira planned to make him an alien from the get go. No. He was just Sun Wukong the inspired character.
Same with Shukaku and Kurama. They were just Japanese folklore characters nothing more and nothing less until part two rolled around
Naruto and Gamabunta only transform into Kurama in the anime. In the original manga, they just transform into a giant regular fox.
@FuckOuttaHere B and Hachibi technically did sometimes with those tentacles
@FuckOuttaHerethe Edo jinchiriku gaining the tail of their tailed beast huh
I agree, but i believe gamabunta said "ahh, the one tailed shukaku" in the anime when he was first summoned
@@Gameplayer0715 No. He said "Shukaku of the Sand" in the original Japanese and "Shukaku the Sand Spirit" in the English dub. Episode 78. Same in the source material. Chapter 134.
There was never a mention of tails during part one because, well, they served no relevance at the time.
Sakuras genjutsu retcon was crazy because she already had inner sakura which could have worked as a genjustu… hell it was the original susano if you think about it
Dygoknights rewrite of naruto does exactly that, its absolutely amazing.
It wasn't the "original susano" what the hell? It was just her inner self that said her true mind but wouldn't be appropriate for the time
@@allworksnew It was her stand. Don't forget her fight against Ino
@@allworksnew they're both a manifestation of ones soul
@@trevionhenderson5721 ha sure
Minato not using sage mode to save the village strictly for the purpose of flexing on everybody else is my new head canon. 😂
Minato couldn't fully use sage mode until he got the other half of kurama. His sage mode was incomplete like jiraiya. Minato is not a Uzumaki so he couldn't use sage mode until getting some of kurama Chakra. Chakra.
@@buincqv67 Nothing about that is stated...why would you assume he was an imperfect sage just because he wasn't an uzumaki? Jiraiya just sucks but developed work arounds. Minato was a genius. Minato not using sage mode is just a moment of Kishimoto coming up with something that inadvertently makes something established earlier illogical.
@@buincqv67 That makes no sense whatsoever and is never stated anywhere, please dont use your headcanon as an argument
I thought he said during the war arc that his sage mode was not good at all.
@@Milfuelle100 Except that Minato has perfect sage, not imperfect like Jiraiya, its just a plothole
Biggest plot hole to me is Wtf happened to the Senju clan? Not enough generations passed for a clan to just breed out. Wish that would have been further explored.
I think the biggest retcon was that naruto was the incarnation of ashura, almost ninja Jesus and that didn't invalidate his struggles but it did invalidate the world and message Naruto had established.
The people should've gave naruto the title instead of the actual God in their universe the 6th Paths
it validated what neji said tho....
@@rongill1234it dint at all Naruto and Sasuke fate and destiny was literally to kill each other and one ends up dead but Naruto literally broke it you all dumb than a bag of bricks go back to DBZ
@@rongill1234 What naruto didnt agree with was specifically that people were telling him his fate was to be a loser and nothing. he didnt want to cave into fate that way. He wanted to prove everyone wrong that his fate wanst to be a loser. Naruto was never arguing specifically against what Neji said.
@@raiden3013 neji said you were either born great of born a loser.... people said naruto was a loser because.... he was a kid with no family and since nobody showed him anything he was bad at doing ninja stuff..... then you find out he's basically a god.... if that whole hey you're a god thing never ever happened he would be proving neji wrong but the guy that was made to be in the trash part of the hyuga family ends up dead while the guy who is basically a god became hokage lol
Minor correction: in the manga, Naruto doesn’t transform into the 9 tails, just a normal fox. So Shukaku having no reaction makes even more sense with that in mind.
Unfortunately, in the anime, they made it a 9 tailed fox
@@anakomaru unfortunately? That was epic Bro!
He definitely transforms into Kurama. It’s just Kurama with 1 tail. That being said, the transformation in the manga starts and ends so fast relative to the anime. It’s only takes a few panels for the Fox to grab Shukkaku, as opposed to a more drawn out struggle in the anime. You could argue Shukkaku just didn’t have time to react or was focused on being grabbed instead.
@@paliboy93 Kurama with one tail is exactly how I would describe that transformation
Deadass? I gotta go read that fight now lol
Naruto: Is blonde and looks like the fourth hokage, his surname is Uzumaki like the wife of the fourth hokage, he's seemingly the only other Uzumaki in town, his clan is known for sealing techniques, he's about as old as the Nine Tails' attack when the village was defended by the fourth hokage, and he has that beast sealed inside him.
Konoha: ThAt KiD iS a NoBoDY.
Ah, if u find a statement that says that the villagers didnt know he was minatos son
that’d be great
cause as far as im aware thats not really said
or implied
its very likely all the adults knew who he was lol Kakashi knew and didnt say a word naruto till he was like 12
The retcon that annoys me the most is how close Naruto was to Shikamaru, Choji, and Kiba when they were little, especially Shikamaru. In the first chapter and episode, all three of them are treating Naruto like shit, but in later episodes, they are all close friends and goofing around and Shikamaru especially having a scene asking his father about if he could be friends with Naruto. They weren't that close!
That's not what a retcon is.
@@lordraiden7397 yes it is? It's more retconning Naruto's relationships, but it's still a retcon. He was never friends with Shikamaru, Choji and Kiba as a kid in the early manga, but that stuff was added later despite their interactions early on contradicting them being friends. Therefore retcon.
@@shadowbladesabre1945 the only people who say "that's not a retcon!" either don't know what it means or are being dense because they think you're insulting their anime. Once you notice it you never stop.
@@jobdylan5782 I dont even like Naruto. Stop projecting bullshit.
It's not a retcon. The fact that they played together once doesn't mean they were friends. In fact their parents come along and take their children away from Naruto which tallies exactly with what Hiruzen said about children picking up attitudes from their parents and alienation.
I think the biggest retconned in Naruto you failed to mentioned are:
- how Jiraiya in the beginning seemed to not know Naruto and wants nothing to do with a stupid brat like him. even when seeing his nine-tails seal he acted like he didn't know anything about it, but was intrigued. when later on, the retcon is that Jiraiya was his godfather, and was very close to Minato, and his name was even taken from his book, etc. but we saw absolutely none of this nuance in the beginning lol.
- Second, is how Naruto is a son of deceased Hokage, but no one took care of him. including those who knows his real identity. like the 3rd Hokage. he didn't even give Naruto, an orphan money to survive his daily lives like wtf.. you would think that being an amazing Hokage, Minato's son would at least get support from the Leaf's government, but they literally just abandoned him. not even Jiraiya took care of him. it is amazing how Naruto doesn't have abandonment issues lol.
we do see a lot of it in the beggining tho,Jiraiya often thinks about the fourth while training Naruto and its shown right after (in hiruzens fb against orochi)that he trained him. And even in the rasengan training arc its teased multiple times and theres even more pararels with minato/Naruto.
Jiraiya just acts as a clueless pervert for comedy but it was always shown he was more than that from his first 3 chapters of being in the story
And nobody taking care of Naruto despite his lineage isnt a retcon either since Naruto being the fourths son seemed to be a plot point very early too,and apparently Hiruzen wanted to keep it lowkey so he just got him a flat. It just makes him a questionnable guy but its no reton
I thought Hiruzen did provide Naruto with an allowance?
Lmao 3rd hokage was tryna instill the will of fire in that boy
None of these our retcons unfortunately
Multiple characters are mentioned to be super close to Naruto's parents later in the story, but anyone takes care of him. Hiruzen, Jiraiya, even Kakashi or Sasuke's mom could have take care of Naruto
Naruto - The only shonen where main character defies the theme of the story himself.
Idk if you’d count it as a retcon but, the sharingan used to just be copying jutsu, enhanced perception and minor genjutsu effects. How did we go from that to giant mountain splitting avatars of death, warping actual reality, insta KO’ing ppl with genjutsu and other mangekyo shenanigans. The rinnegan makes my head spin as well
That's not a retcon.
Simple: the power scaling got all sorts of fucked as the series went on.
@@passingrando6457 the actual answer is that characters get stronger as a show goes. Abilities get stronger as a show goes on which isn't a bad thing.
@@liplip-yr8vx It isn't if its handled well. The sharingan was not handed well.
its not a retcon. all those powers are of the Mangekyo which has been here since part 1. the regular sharigan does exactly what you say
Itachi also seemed like a pretty big retcon. He seemed to be no-shit, certified, 100% a mf villain! All that "secret spy for the Leaf" stuff seems to have been an afterthought
For sure. He shouldn’t have wanted to traumatize Sasuke if he really was a spy. Especially when they reunite
@@stonalisa3729 Right, people always try to justify that but ain't no way someone would force their 8-year-old brother to watch their parents get murdered, like, 700 times and then act like he was just trying to protect him, that's some bullshit.
From what I read long ago is that Kishimoto really planned for Itachi just to be a villain shinobi who hated the leaf but changed it when he found out how popular Itachi was.
@@mvmsma my head canon is that the uchiha massacre was so deeply traumatising for itachi that he forgot his original reason for doing it in the first place. all he could think about was dying for his sins, and who better than sasuke to do that, hence why he planted that seed of hatred.
@@JustAnotherAccount8 pretty sure that was also said in the anime, that Itachi wanted Sasuke to be the one to kill him
Another plot hole is how its stated that naruto missed his graduation multiple times and yet everyone else graduated at the same time as him even tho they are all the same age? Did everyone fail multiple times?
Eh maybe since he’s just so motivated and a go getter he applied as early as possible. Whereas the other kids either waited on their own or their parents didn’t allow them until they deemed ready
For the 3rd Hokage being strong, it might just be because he was as strong as they say...in his prime. But he's a old man now, so losing some power is reasonable, especially when compared to the previous Hokage who died in their prime.
Prime Hiruzen was at least as strong as Tobirama, minimum. He was strong af in his prime. Your right, him being "strongest" in P1 is mainly due to his feats while young. He was also probably the strongest of his era's 5 kage (def beating Mei, A, and Onoki; probably Rasa too).
@AlTiUCOFe same way naruto and Sasuke were the strongest in the end of shippuden until boruto
@@MarioTheLiopleurodon Hiruzen was indeed confirmed to be the strongest kage of his time. The only one who was a bit not too extremely far behind him was Onoki
Can you beat Mike tyson in a boxing match?
@@MarioTheLiopleurodon Orochi literally mention how hiruzen as old lost alot of his power but whatever
The third coffin was his browser history
😂😂
Im still so surprised the fandom never talks about the atrocious amount of absurd retcons made when Madara entered the story
Like?
@@MisaelMatute76
Jeez where do I even begin.
Madara uses izanagi after already being dead. Completely violates the rules established for how it works.
Madara awakens the rinnegan in both eyes even tho one of his original eyes was blinded by izanagi. If you want to argue he swapped the blinded eye for a new sharingan and it adapted to the new user, then thats not how sharingans work. Thats only applicable for EMS. Cause if that were the case madara would not have been able to use kamui when he took kakashi's eye, it would have adapted to be madaras sharingan.
The completely absurd story ruining retcon that nagato's eyes were madara's the whole time. Like this was so obviously never planned and makes so little sense. Madara awakens the rinnegan in his old age and decides to just give them to a random kid in a war torn country??? A kid very easily could have died. And madara just leaves him there for years, until obito arrives. Like how was madara even planning on manipulating nagato into reviving him until finding obito lmao?
Rinne rebirth revives madara to his youth with no eyes. Thats not how rinne rebirth was establised to work. Its not supposed to be able to create a whole new body, it would just revive the body in kabuto's lab. And since it did create a whole nee body, why does it stoo at the eyes lmao?
Probably the worst retcon of them all. Madara uses sharingan and rinnegan powers with no eyes.
The story is ruined in so many ways to bend around this lame character.
@@The_Wonders_of_Engineering Ah I see what your saying, but some of this things do have an explanation. If there good explanations, thats for you to determine but there is explanations.
1. It has been stated that the mangyeko sharingan can use techniques even after the user dies. Hense Itachis attack on Tobi from Sasuke...
2. It wasn't a random kid. It was the only one that would be able to handle it. Uzumakis were not easy to find and Zetsu was watching him.
3. Rinne Rebirth didnt bring his eyes back, because they had never died. They were still being used.
The other points there isnt much explanations that I can think of, but I'll let you know if I think of something lol
@@MisaelMatute76
I mean still retcons and not exactly good explanantions...
1. Izanagi isnt a MS sharingan ability and was established to have certain rules with danzo's fight.
2. Still a horrible retcon. If you want to say zetsu was watching over him, that completely ruins the entire backstory and tragedy of pain. If he was never really in danger of death as a child. Plus thats just your head canon anyway, as far Im aware its never actually stated zetsus watching nagato. As for nagato being an uzumaki being the reason he was selected, im sure there were less risky uzumakis to choose from. If you want to say be wanted to avoid leaf village attention, then could have easily just kidnapped nagato as a child and raise and brainwash him from the start, cut out all these extra steps.
3. Fair point, but it should not have made madara a new body from the edo tensei. Madaras actual body was in a lab somewhere. My point was if rinne rebirth is going to construct a brand new body (which already violates the rules) why stop at the eyes.
@TheAnthonymcinnis 1. But when they explained the time delay after his death, they specifically mention it is possible to delay Izanagi. So that actually checks out. And since we had already seen an example of a time delay jutsu, its not really a retcon.
2. When Obito went to Pain, he knew exactly where he was, because of Zetsu. So yes he was watching. The fact that Zetsu was the "master plan" at the end also confirms that. Also he wasnt really interested in Nagato, just the eyes. So Nagato could have been in danger, Zetsu would just let it happen and steal the eyes after.
3. Madaras real body died in the cave. Since it was several decades later, his body was already decomposed. Like I said the eyes were still active though, hense why that couldnt be recreated...
Not really a retcon but the situation with chakra natures was kinda strange. Everyone suddenly having an innate element at birth and introducing a rock-paper-scissors system seems like something that should've been introduced way earlier than it was in the series.
Given that the only time’s the Rock Paper Scissors element was really relevant was the Sasuke vs Diedra and Kakazu fights that immediately followed, I’m convinced it was just introduced for those. Problem is that it could’ve been a cool tactical element to fights, but ultimately the series had to focus on power level style fights due to the Nine Tails just being “more chakra” rather than any special elements like the other Beasts
@Matt And naruto also never really needed kurama. At the beginning he only used his Chakra several times but had massive Chakra reserve kinda like a base form goku from dragon ball.
The chakra nature system not being something Naruto knew before Kakashi taught him was utterly stupid. You'd think that the test would've been performed way earlier given how soon jonin could recommend their team to participate in the chunin exam after they graduate the academy. I mean...think of it this way, Sasuke and Naruto are outliers but every other named genin from Naruto's graduating class that was in the chunin exams came from an established clan yet every other genin was probably deemed irrelevant because they hadn't received basic elemental training prior to graduating.
@@MegaShinobi2011 in Boruto Gen academy arcs the new Boruto gen has some episodes learning about elemental chakra natures and summoning Jutsu and how they work. Naruto fanboys think Genin in Boruto should not learn chakra natures at the academy that it ruins power scaling. The Naruto fandom is sometimes a double-edged Hypocrite fandom.
@@axxjazz. In Boruto Gen academy arcs the new Boruto gen has some episodes learning about elemental chakra natures and summoning Jutsu and how they work. Naruto fanboys think Genin in Boruto should not learn chakra natures at the academy that it ruins power scaling. The Naruto fandom is sometimes a double-edged Hypocrite fandom.
For me the biggest retcon and at the same time the most poorly planned one was the Zetsu-Kaguya retcon. Black Zetsu was supposed to be part of Madara's mind and follow his will. Kishimoto even said in an interview that he came up with the idea of Kaguya and the Otsutsuki clan as a more prominent role around the time he drew the Madara-Hashirama flashback after Oro & Sasuke brought back the Edo Kage in the war. In that flashback we also got the first hint at Zetsu lurking at Hashirama's and Madara's final battle. Already being well into the war and rewriting the story that late made it feel too sudden and random. Everything in ninja history being planned by Zetsu and Zetsu just pretending is also a kinda cheap way to explain everything. I do like the idea of Kaguya as a deranged godess, that is the origin of everything, but it felt very rushed. At least the anime made it a little bit better in putting some fillers, that show her origins and the stories of Hagoromo, Hamura, Ashura and Indra.
In regards to Orochimaru's arms. The reaper seal took away his ability to use ninjutsu that required hand signs. While he could switch bodies to regain motive function in his arms, the seal still prevented him from using jutsu. This was brought up by Suigetsu (If I'm remember his name correctly) as a reason why Sasuke manage to defeat Orochimaru so easily.
Does anyone else find it endlessly entertaining that Neji was hyped up as this prodigy spent all his screen time talking down to people about how they'll never amount to anything before disapearing out of relevancy until he was finally spit roasted and died on the battlefield of the 4th ninja war as basically cannon fodder 😅
The third casket is not implied to be the fourth Hokage. It states it outright. The casket bears the Kanji for 4(四) where the two others bear the kanji for 初(first) and 二(2).
So yeah, this is just a hard problem of continuity/plot logistics. No need to pull punches here.
That's why I discussed it possibly being the 4th Kazekage. A lot of people have been saying Madara in the comments but there's not really reason to put a 4 on the 3rd casket if it's Madara
@@KatoBeyond
Yeah, I was just agreeing with the sentiment. There's literally zero reason to think a box with the literal kanji for 4 on it would be intended to be anything other than the 4th when the two other caskets contain the 1th and 2nd according to their respective kanji.
@@hian I appreciate the comment especially since I forgot to mention the kanji in the video
@@KatoBeyond
Np!
@@hianit bejng the 4th kazekage makes sense tho him being killed in the same arc was a major plot point
It’s unforgivable, how Tobirama was passed over for the title god of shinobi, considering the things he can do
Seriously the guy invented shadow clones, teleportation and literally found a way to revive the dead. like Hashirama and his whole wood style is cool and all and Hiruzen has the whole monkey theme and sapposedly mastered all jutsu of the Leaf, but Tobirama just straight up invented an unkillable zombie army that doesn't even die if you kill the caster
Tobirama WORST hokage by far, cry about it
@@dylan119 how was tobirama a bad kage?
Minato eclipsed Tobirama in justabout every category, especially with his use of Flying Raijin.
@@MarioTheLiopleurodon is that so? What forbidden jutsu did Minato create that outclasses the Edo Tensei and Shadow Clone Jutsu? Come to think of it I don’t recall Minato having an affinity to Water release or even unlocking it.
You say Minato has Tobirama beat in just about every category when the only edge he has is sealing jutsu and he’s slightly faster. Even with the sealing jutsu he’s no where near as proficient with it compared to an actual Uzumaki. Kushina taught him some of the jutsu (I say some on account of the fact that there were sealing jutsu exclusive to Uzumaki with ‘special’ chakra like the Adamantine Chains)
It kinda seems like Tsunade should be a genjutsu user too at this point
I think the point that you miss about the Hiruzen retcon is that it retcons one of the largest themes of Naruto, which is why it is one of the worst retcons in my opinion. Hiruzen was meant to be STRONGER than the hokage before him, and Minato was meant to be the strongest Leaf shinobi of all time, but he died saving the village, before he could realize his full potential. This is because the Nine-tails was meant to be the strongest force in the series (no ten tails or aliens yet).
Hiruzen getting retconned (with the real retcon actually being Hashirama and Madara being so strong) is one of the worst decisions in the series in my opinion. It completely ruins one of the main themes, which is that the next generation carries on the will of fire and becomes stronger than the last. Hashirama being so strong basically means the will of fire was trash and no one except Naruto (who is literally another reincarnation of Ashura) would be stronger than Hashirama.
It is honestly the worst retcon of the series in my opinion because that leads to all the weird powerscaling history issues with Madara, Kaguya, the Rinnegan, and aliens.
Perfectly said, I always hated Hashirama's history, and the fact that Kishimoto repeated the title of "God of Shinobi" to Hashirama, since this title was already said to be Hiruzen's title. Now to be strong in Naruto you need to be a Senju or Uchiha, this is ridiculous.
I still feel like both statements could be true, in the fact that each generation has their own heroes. To Hiruzen and his generation, 1st and 2nd were the gods of shinobys. But by the time we enter the story the 1st and 2nd are long gone, having died early. So with them being gone for so long, it makes sense that people would start calling the 3rd the god of shinobi.
@@MisaelMatute76 Yes this is true, but that is not what I am saying. By making the first Hokage so much stronger than the third, it completely removes the theme of Naruto of the Will of Fire and the next generation being better than the last. The original series had stated that the Third was the strongest Hokage ever, and that Minato would have surpassed him if he hadn't died early. That makes perfect sense with the the theme of Naruto, because that explains how Naruto will become stronger than the previous Hokage when he eventually becomes Hokage.
Instead, the only reason he is stronger than the other Hokage is because he is literally the same reincarnation as Hashirama. How is that good writing at all? It sucks, and makes every other shinobi seem really weak because none could surpass Madara or Hashirama.
@@AzerAnimations Well thats because your only looking at the hokages. But the whole "the next generation" will surprass the previous, isn't just about the hokages. It involves the entire generation as a whole. So while its possible that one or two individuals were stronger, the next generation overall has surpassed the other.
And this also applies in more than just strenght. It also applies towards their viewpoint and growing as humanity.
In Hashiramas time, it was tribe vs tribe. He then got them to joined and it became village vs village... Naruto eventually got them to ally and so on..
@@MisaelMatute76 I mean I agree it should be on the whole of the generations. That is how it was originally to be, and we can see that with the the Three Sannin and then Team 7, where each surpassed their mentor (though Sakura vs Tsunade is debatable).
I am focusing on the Hokage because they are important to the entire premise of the show. The original premise of the show is that Naruto is going to become "Hokage someday, dattebayo!". So the Hokage need to represent something worth surpassing. The powerscaling problems from this retcon are so insane, surely you can see that with how Hashirama and Madara were too OP so they had to make all the Otsutsuki and Kaguya etc...
You could hand wave the third hokage falling for Orochimaru's Minato bluff as him knowing if anyone could undo the reaper death seal it would be Orochimaru. As for the fear of Minato I'd say it was probably the other half of Kurama coming back with him that he was more afraid of.
He just dint want to fight three kages and Orochi who would want that
@game universe The original edos were heavily nerfed and Minato canonically had a very small chakra pool to begin with. Fear of the 9 tails makes more sense. Minato himself would have been negligiblely weak to the point where the reaper death seal could still work and still have enough juice to seal Orochimaru's arms. .-.
@@xdfeverdream8122 Only high chakra pool individuals can use sage mode. Only high chakra pool individuals can use teleportation.
Minato had one of the highest chakra pools in the series.
@Zyxyx Actually he really doesn't. During the war arc when he used sage mode he only had enough chakra despite being a perfect sage for 1 jujitsu before reverting back to base. He even brought up himself he's always sucked at sage mode due to just having the bare minimum amount of chakra to pull it off. There's quality of chakra usage and quantity when it comes to chakra. Minato has the opposite problem his son has in that regard. The reason he can do what he does has never been how much he has access to its just he perfected using his jujitsu's with the minimum required to pull them off. .-.
If Orochimaru somehow brought him back with the prototype edotensei he wouldn't have had access to sage mode at all.
I'm not saying Minato is weak by any means. I'm saying as nerfed as much as Orochimaru's prototype edotensei would have left him as far as the Reaper Death Seal specifically would be concerned Minato would be almost as good as free of cost to seal due to how that specific jujitsu works. It is literally the strongest sealing jujitsu in the series that isn't the totsuka blade. .-.
Hyped up by recency bias is funny
Not only funny, but honestly a probable explanation.
Heck, that has been my intuitive headcanon so far - it didn't even register as retcon to me.
I find the most plausible explanation to be that at the time those jutsu were the most powerful and he hadn't created a sage mode or six paths yet, then once he made Madara so OP he had to make hashirama OP as well to make Madaras defeat reasonable.
@@Henry_NYC Well, we've never seen prime Hiruzen fight. Is he as strong as Hashirama? Probably not. As they said in the series Hashi was so strong that people thought tales of his deeds were just exaggerated stories. But he could certainly be stronger than Tobi and Minato. Edo Hiruzen was fairly strong. If in his prime he's making dozens of shadow clones and shooting out massive combination jutsu constantly then he's not someone to mess with lightly.
Prime horizon could’ve been stronger than Hashirama who knows. I wish they’d do a manga about him
Nah it's all trash
Itachi being a good guy suddenly seems like a retcon bcs it was so convoluted and ridiculous to make it work and just caused so many questions with lack luster answers.
The answers were fine. Kishimoto did a fairly good job of hiding his tracks enough to not make it seem like an outright retcon
I agree it was a 100% a retcon the whole conflict it made no sense at times like when Itachi and Sasuke meet again when he was younger and Itachi beats him senseless and then uses tsukuyomi on him and breaks and tortures his mind as well and then you are trying to make me believe he "loves him" now it was so stupid lol you can say he was doing it on purpose to drive Sasuke to kill him but Sasuke already has that motivation, Itachi could have beat him up slightly or knocked him out but he went full in on him could have killed him as well just didn't make sense if he truly "loved him"
@Yohane Nightingale Kishimoto counters that or atleast tries to fix that by having Itachi admit he screwed up big time. Itachi knows his plan was bad, but at that point he had no choice.
You also gotta remember that he was like 13-14 years old when he came up with said plan and had to kill everyone in his life.
Itachi admitted that there were way better ways for him to have gone about the whole situation, and he especially regretted making Sasuke go through all of that. In the end when he tells him that he will love him always, it was him saying that despite all that bullshit he loves him.
I think having Itachi be a shinobi who is so devoted that he's even willing to torture his own brother for the "sake of the village" makes him very interesting, since we don't really see many characters who were devoted the village to THAT extent.
All of Itachi's actions that were so convincing even made Sasuke question the system of shinobi and the concept of a village itself, and he needed a lecture and story from Hashirama the 1st Hokage himself to figure something out.
Ye
@@Xeno574 I understand that as well like I still like Itachi and I don't mind what Kishimoto did with his character but somethings don't add up and are kinda silly looking back on and to think about using tsukuyomi on Sasuke was just really odd because if Naruto and Jiraiya didn't find Tsunade, Sasuke might have been locked in the coma state or even died like Itachi was shown to be one of the smartest characters in the series but he put his whole plan at risk by doing that to Sasuke which was kinda a silly thing to do not to mention he killed everyone but Sasuke in the past didn't want to hurt him but now could have killed him on "accident"
It would have been interesting if Sakura had genjutsu to go along with her taijutsu and medical ninjutsu.
The concept of a medical ninja using genjutsu to conceal themselves while they heal their allies mid battle, the opponent realizing what is going on, dispelling the technique, only to get a knuckle sandwich the moment they return to reality.
It would have let Sakura connect so many more punches than she did.
hiruzen stopping the last edo tensi makes sense, IF it was the 4th hokage, since even orochimaru thought it would work naturally hiruzen thought it would work, and hiruzen knows edo tensi to a degree because of tobirama and it being stated that he knows all leaf jutsu, so he could’ve come to the conclusion that while all three of their stats were gonna be pretty nerfed, he feared minato’s flying raijun would be the most troublesome ability to deal with
Yeah, but only if it was the fourth, which it couldn't have been plot-wise.
@@kingace6186 it is, the coffin has the kanji for four
It didn’t work because his soul was inside the shinigami
I think it was clearly supposed to be the 4th hokage and he stopped it because in part one the fourth hokage is incredibly hyped more than any other hokage, hiruzen, jiraya, kakashi, whenever they think of the epitome of ninja, a prodigy they think of the 4th hokage, I feel like eventually kishimoto thought having the old guard be stronger was better and just rolled with it
@@kmav2213Although in the episode both Hiruzen and Orichimaru say that Hiruzen stopped the third coffin.
I think Hiruzen didn't stop the first two summonings because it happened too fast, and when he caught on to who Oro was summoning, he then stopped the third. He didn't automatically realize who or what orochimaru was summoning until he read the markings on the caskets
The way I understood it was that Hiruzen tried to stop the third coffin, the coffin failing, then Orochimaru saying that the third coffin was a failure and Hiruzen thinking he managed to stop it. But actually the coffin didn't fail because of Hiruzen but because the 4th hokage soul was sealed. If the soul wasn't sealed maybe the 3rd would've also failed to stop the 3rd coffin like with the first two.
@Honkai Impact History Ch. See, I never bought that because edo tensei takes so much prep. I feel like Orochimaru would know it would fail during that prep. That always led me to believe that it was the 4th Kazekage in that box. Then, it's like the other guy said. Hiruzen got surprised by the first 2, and managed to stop the 3rd. Whoever was in it wouldn't matter as much because he would want to stop an increasingly worse scenario as best he could. The series just kinda took everything away from Hiruzen by the end and I hate that.
@@HonkaiHistory Oh. That works.
@@rac2300 True but Orochimaru didn't know how the reaper death seal worked until Hiruzen used it in the battle, he even told Hiruzen "to hurry up and show him the jutsu".
@@TheodoreBrosevelt Also true, but Hiruzen knows about both techniques. He had access to all of Tobirama's research and info plus he had knowledge from the Uzumaki clan directly. Why would he attempt to stop a coffin that he should know would fail anyway. It just seemed to me that the Kazekage made more sense there.
About the reaper.
Orochimaru must found it in the timeskip.
He didnt knowed the reaper jutsu, when Hiruzen used it.
He has probally invested it afterwards, when Tsunade betrayed him to.
His plan was probally, to collect the mask, when he want to take Sasukes body. Used it to take his arm back and than go over into sasukes body.
11:27 on that point, almost every village have their own tailed beast sealed within one of their children (presumably from Naruto Gaara and Bee) so why were they antagonizing a weapon of mass destruction so much not fearing the repercussions
I feel like Naruto was supposed to be a real orphan with some unknown fodder parents who died , and Kishimoto only made him the 4th Hokage's son later. That's why his childhood has so many plot holes
His mother was supposed to be an unknown fodder, but his father was always the Fourth.
But like… spitting image of his dad , the only person in his village with blonde hair (actually not sure of this anymore) and I think just one of the only two orphans in the village. As children we all figured out that connection, there’s no way it wasn’t intentional. I just think personally that kishimoto is a clumsy writer.
Basically just do whatever is interesting and figure out how to make people accept it after. This tactic of his worked all the way up until kaguya because what he came up with wasn’t interesting enough of a distraction to hide the massive pile of crap he left behind.
The series is *full* of this. Hand signs were interesting until he came up with the rasengan (which I’m not mad at). Orochimaru was interesting so he brought him back, but he never reached that first half peak again. Shinigami seal was interesting up until he realized that people would love to see legends in action. It goes on and on.
Actually Kishimoto has explained that. He said he never wanted Naruto to meet his parents.
But when Kishimoto himself became a father, he changed his mind. As he could only think of his child not knowing him. So he made arragements so that Naruto would meet his dad and mom somehow.
There is literally no plot hole regarding his childhood
@@AK-MS27 disregarding the literal chasm in the story in which hiruzen promised 2 dying parents to take care of their orphaned child and he… *checks notes* left him to live on his own (with a monster of calamity that could come out at any time), checked on him rarely to give some money (added later), allowed him to be completely ostracized by his people without ever once standing up for him, and died without leaving any kind of backup to help said child when he was no longer around to do it (he was gonna die of old age eventually)
His parents being 1.an uzumaki and 2.literally the savior of their entire village makes it seem like the people actively hated them for leaving the tailed beast in their child and for forcing this situation on them. Hiruzen at least was around for Konohamaru meanwhile the child of his student, his successor, the one man who gave his life for the village was living like a stray dog.
Something I heard somewhere else that makes sense is that the naming conventions of Japan don't always have the kids take the father's name if the mother's family is more important. Since the Uzumaki were almost on par with the Senju it makes sense for Naruto to have his mother's name.
Kind of. In Japan the Husband can be adopted into the wife's family which often happens if the wife is the only child of a family. It's more about continuing the family by adopting the husband than it is about which family is more important and so which one should bear the name.
About the Akatsuki never going for the Nine Tails:
This was probably also due to Itachi.
The only reason he joined the Akatsuki was to keep them away from the Leaf,hence why the Leaf gets attacked shortly after his death.
It was stated by Zetsu and confirmed by Madara that the tailed beasts must be sealed in order, the 9 tails is the last beast.
@@Rck-vert This is straight up a lie, when a tailed beast is sealed in the Gedo Mazo (or Demonic Statue of the Outer Path) a pupil shows up in one of the eyes. By the start of Shippuden, before the One-Tails is sealed, we can see two other beasts were already sealed.
Also, it makes no sense for Itachi and Kisame to go after Naruto in part 1 if the have to capture 8 Jinchuuriki before they can seal it
@@Nemesis_T-Typeitachi lied to check up on Sasuke after hiruzen who he trusted on died and make sure danzo does not try anything
@@Nemesis_T-Typeitachi could have said they capture him and just keep him lock up until they have the others
@@Rck-vert This is actually another retcon, as Akatsuki never sealed the tailed beasts in order.
@6:00 that's because half-way through the manga Kishimoto decided to switch up themes. From the start, the manga has a rather straightforward 'every next generation is stronger than the previous one' going on but he then falls back on the more boring and trop of 'old gods return to fight again' which is how you get Madara, Hashirama etc.
Kyuubi sage mode Naruto would have passed alive Madara and hashirama even if he dint get the six path amps when he gets to thirty or forty especially if he gets the other half of the Kyuubi from Minato
Madara and hashirama fight was established in the end of part one and madara was hinted to be powerful ever since part one and all of Shippuden and everyone love madara and hashirama because they are well written no body care about the third hogage and the final villain needs to be powerful or no one will care and shonan ruined by introducing kagua to set up for boruto and don't forget chapter one say about the power to destroy montens
We get no canon explanation on why the Senju suddenly vanished. And I don't wanna here "they married into Konoha". That was never stated, it's just fanon.
Plus why are there no Uzumaki in Konoha if they had an alliance with Konoha? No one wanted to stay in Konoha?
Dygoknight is making a full series rewrite of naruto and actually taps into sakuras affinity for genjutsu especially using her inner self and its done perfectly. Give it a watch!
Yes this! His series is so good other people really need to give it a watch
Hmm
@@The8Disciples honestly
I dont really like your explanation in the end , because to me you seem to be implying that " Naruto failed upwards " which doesn't really help the argument you're trying to disprove
Neji looked at Naruto and decided he was a loser, but he couldn't accurately ascertain Naruto's potential
I agree with this comment. What Neji said was still correct, but he didn’t know Naruto was the son of the fourth Hokage. And as everyone says, Neji also suffered his fate. The child of prophecy thing really wasn’t needed.
@@knightlight5497 You agree with the comment that dislikes my explanation at the end? But in my explanation I said that some of what Neji said was correct and that he didn't know Naruto was the 9 Tails jinchuriki
All these retcons weren't seamless
I noted them instantly
Also the biggest reasons they weren't noticed is becuase most don't really pay close attention to long shows continuity
Congrats. You're one of a few hundred out of the millions of Naruto fans that pay attention to the story's structure on such a level.
The Hiruzen retcon was immediately shown as soon as Itachi was introduced
6:49 it was brought up again, I watched it recently, it was Kabuto explaining who can be brought back with reanimation to tobi. Explaining why he couldn't bring back the 1-4 hokage. Basically the retcon saying they were sealed away and that's why the 4th couldn't come back, not because 3rd stopped him.
I've been thinking about who was in that third coffin for the longest time. Part of me wonders if even Orochimaru knew that he didn't have the ability to resurrect the 4th. Like does the Jutsu stop itself from working if the soul being requested is unavailable? Or does it just bring up an empty coffin? Some episode 2 of FMA type monstrosity inside instead of your person? Was Orochimaru even trying to summon the 4th Hokage? Was Hiruzen wary of fighting the 4th period or just the idea of fighting him AND two other Kage at the same time? Why were the first and second so much weaker than they were in real life and even as zombies the second time around? Is the power of an Edo Tensei'd person limited but the summoner's power? Their knowledge of the resurrected person? Did Orochimaru know how much he was getting ripped off when he asked for the first two Hokage and got their dollar store versions? Can Orochimaru summon someone who can do a magic trick that he's never heard about? So many questions from that one interaction compared to the rest of the story.
I literally went back and watched the scene. They call it the one tails and they call it a bijuu.
They don't actually. In the anime they call it "the spirit of an old monk of the sand village who was sealed in a jar of tea" (episode 58, 14:30-14:55) and I also showed the manga panels on screen where Gaara contradicts that idea
Part of why the recons work so well is because we look at it from Naruto's point of view. This gives us soft world building which is flexible. Any type of hard world building is relayed to us as a lesson to Naruto himself so we still use the same framing device.
this is factually incorrect
The constant retconing doesn't work at all and it ruins the entire series. Also, Naruto is clearly an example of hard world building.
As to the he coffin 'plot hole': In the manga, it simply fails, because Minato is sealed.
btw. I also think it was implying Minato was the strongest, but it could also mean, Hiruzen meant he must avoid a fourth opponent. However, given that it failed in the mange due to other reasons, no need to think about it
I mean... Minato is the fastest ninja of his time, if not ever... Hiruzen is old...
1+1=2
In chapter 117 Hiruzen forms a hand seal and stops the third coffin from rising in the first place, but that does support your idea that Hiruzen simply didn't want to face another opponent Kage level opponent
@@KatoBeyond Orochimaru also had no knowledge of the Reaper Death Seal prior to Hiruzen telling him about it. So even if Hiruzen did nothing, Orochimaru's attempt to summon Minato would've still failed.
@@ASdeclassified so ?
The answer is simple, even, when the panels are in the way.
It wasnt the 4. Hokage. But, the 4. Kazekage.
Minato can not even be in the coffin to that point. So, Orochimaru couldnt even try to summon him by Hiruzen.
But, he had killed the 4. Kazekage. And maybe wanted to use him to in the fight (2 Hokage and one Kazekage again one Hokage).
Hiruzen simply thinked, that the third coffin would be Minato and used his blocking jutsu, to block the 4. Kazekage instant.
I hate the retcon of making Naruto and Hinata friends from early on, cause that literally defeats his entire
"I will not let you experience loneliness as long as I live cause I have been alone since the start" goals, reasonings and his beliefs on life.
If he had Hinata since the start I really doubt he'd be the trouble making kid we love.
The fact that Naruto had the single most powerful force inside him and he wasn’t trained since birth is a big retcon they act like he just has a random monster inside of him.
Um no. A core part of the fight with neji was about his one's birth defines your station in life and how Naruto was against it. It was not his entire argument, but you can't just blow passed that core part of it
Even if that is core, Neji is also wrong about Naruto's birth
@@KatoBeyond
Yes, because everyone was ignorant of the circumstances of his birth. That doesn't change that Naruto was the reincarnation of a god/the son of the hokage/a nuke/prophesied to change the world. All of that supports Neji's larger point
I'm not even sure it's a retcon either. He was kind proven right in the fight at the time. If Naruto wasn't born with the nine tails he probably would have lost
@@theamazingmarlbito6293 Neji said that he can tell what people's potential is by looking at them and that people who fight their fate are foolish. Naruto said that he didn't know the fates of others. Neji didn't know Naruto's fate, meaning he was wrong
@@KatoBeyond
I mean I guess about that, but not about the larger point. I think might guy might be a better example of him being wrong though. Dude got jacked
Sakura still a master at dispelling genjutsu tho.. in the Last Movie. she break out everyone from genjutsu. and this was casted by an otsutsuki
I think their was a quote during Bee’s backstory implying that the 8 tails was very powerful and troublesome due to its number of tails. So I wouldn’t say the nine tails being the strongest years later was surprising. I think the tailed beasts go up exponentially in power (I vaguely remember). Also, Orochimaru had placed the five pronged seal upon Naruto, I don’t think we saw him use the nine tails power again until he met Jiraiya one of the only other 3 people (probably) who could remove the seal. Jiraiya did not want anyone to know he was in the village in the first place. I don’t think the sound village or the sand ever intended a nine tails vs shukaku match off. Ultimately the leaf village did not have the resources or tools to control the Ninetails in that situation anyway.
Kurama tells the eight tails he should easily be handling things because he has the second amount of tails with him responding that why shukaku hates him
6:35 I always explained that as Hiruzen thinking he in his old age can't handle 3 Kage level Shinobi as opposed to fearing Minato specifically.
Honestly, whole Naruto's childhood is a retcon. It was stated that he was always alone and had no friends even in academy, but then we learned that Shikamaru, Choji and Kiba were kinda his friends? Also it's super unbelievable that he lived basically alone since birth, like, there has to be someone babysitting him until he's like at least 7. Was it Hiruzen or Iruka all that time?
Technically it was the anbu Black ops that was monitoring him most of the time
Playing with him some when they're really young doesn't preclude them turning cold to him when they're older.
I think you could make the head cannon that Hirzuen thought the third casket was Madara, not Minato.
I don’t think hiruzen feared the 4th hokage but he just wasn’t gonna let orochimaru keep summoning more edo tenseis 😅
No, early on it was explicitly stated that Hiruzen was stronger than the first two Hokage, but Minato was stronger than he was.
This was a whole theme, the next generation being better than the last, that Kishimoto talked about quite a bit during part 1 and early on in part 2. Then it turned into Type:Moon logic.
Am I imagining things or the limit of every ninja only being able to master two elements was something that was retconned?
Not really, in the first arc of Naruto, Kakashi is already shown using 3 elements already (Earth, Lightning and Water), its simply something that only Jonin should be able to do
I believe the explanation was most ninjas only manage two. When you look at who have mastered all five, they all have pretty big names.
"One of the surprisingly rare legitimate plot holes"??? Dude, the series is full of plot holes and retcons. You can say that the entire series is one giant plot hole, as later it is revealed (retconned) that all the events from the beginning are orchestrated by Zetsu. Once you realize that nothing in the series makes sense.
The reason Naruto had the surname "uzumaki" is actually because all uzumaki are supposed to have red hair, so when people would go looking for the jinchuriki "Naruto Uzumaki" they would look for someone with red hair, this one is almost directly stated i just dont remember where
If you know about the fourth teleporting ability and factor in how it's seals never go away it completely makes sense at least in my head cannon why the 3rd was so freaked out about the 4th
I really like the Bijuu retcon as we see the Ninja world has absolutely awful record keeping, it's yet another case of them repeating history out of ignorance.
Also while just how strong Kurama is is a it of a retcon I think you overblown it a bit. Pain states that they HAVE to seal Kyuubi last because without the other 8 bijuu it's so strong the Gedo Mazo will explode. Plus Naruto is no light weight, his Rasenshuriken did more to Kurama than Hashirama's true several thousand hands did, it's not like Kurama alone was doing everything.
I didn't recall that statement about the Gedo Mazo, good pull
@@KatoBeyond in fairness it's mostly an excuse for the time jump. 3 tails died with Yagura and they needed to wait for it to reform because they needed all 8 to seal the Kyuubi. So they focused on gathering money and power instead. AKA why they don't bother getting all the Bijuu until Shippuden, no point until that one reformed since getting the other 7 and kidnapping Naruto would just get them attacked by everyone while they waited.
@@KatoBeyond pain never said that
@@lordeasy7006 He 100% did. It was during one of the projection meetings Akatsuki liked so much early on.
BROTHER!!! Tell me I did not hear your fire alarm beep in the background of the video. 😅😅😂😂
Maybe some stereotypes are real
Your interpretation of the Neji fight is interfering I guess. If you’re right it’s a very uninspiring message that goes against the entire rest of the series. I believe it’s supposed to be parallel with Guy and Lees stories. The retcons make it all fall flat.
Im sure someones mentioned it. But in part 1 there was nothing to hint at Itachi secretely being a good guy. And he was originally gonna be Sasukes biggest challenge. Of course, that changed so what we got was a secret spy for the leaf who not only didn't help the leaf with anything on screen But, went out of his way to torture Sasuke (causjng his sanity to collapse and him leaving the village) and Kakashi, for fun, and went out of his way to attempt to kidnap Naruto, complete with allowing Kisame to chop off Narutos leg. But he was a good guy so its ok, lol.
The transformation into the nine tails was anime only in the manga gamabunta and naruto turn into a giant fox with one tail
True, that fox still looked a lot like Kyuubi though
From what I understood, I thought at one point it was said or implied that the 9tails was stronger because of the amount of tails. It can presumed that the amount of power from each tail would be exponential.
That theory was also refuted by a Tailed Beast in the same moment it was brought up, which either implies he was lying, or they were created equals and the Nine Tails grew more over time. At the very least this is ambiguous
I always took it as He really was trying to summon Minato. And Orichimaru didn't know he was in the stomach and Hiruzen wasn't about to A: Let a third fighter join in even if it's not Minato Or worse. B: Be wrong about Minato still being sealed.
Hating this show as a young adult then actually liking and respecting it after another (with more anime XP under my belt ) watching of this show Naruto was never an underdog, dude was only neglected as a child and a young ninja. Had he had the upbringing of all the others in his class he’d have been the most powerful character more than a lot of the adults around him In No Time 😁.
Minato sealing half of the 9 tails is the most unsatisfying retcon. In unnecessarily changes how we viewed the 9 tails. It nerfs and buffs them at the same time, and it drastically calls into question Minatos plan. So you're gonna seal the evil side inside your son, and take the good half into a seal that you never planned to have undone? Excuse?
It also changes Kurama from having been a rough character who learns to live, to just being the evil side by nature, and then by the end it's somehow two good sides, because Naruto turns the evil half.
I always chalked the final coffin to be Madara especially after knowing that Minato died via the RDS.
Kabuto talks about the fight with Hiruzen and Orochimaru when talking to Tobi about the reanimation. Kabuto explains that the reason Orochimaru didn’t summon the Fourth was that he couldn’t, because Minato sealed himself with the reaper death seal. Retconning Hiruzen “stopping” the reanimation with his fight with Orochimaru
I wish they wrote off Minatos ability to use sage mode as "hes able to do it because of his half of the nine tails" like with naruto. It would've made perfect sense for the time and he would've been able to get away with not being able to do it before he died
As far as the underdog part goes, the nine tails heavily impacted his ability to control his chakra so for a very long time he did have to work harder than most.
The one thing that made me drop Naruto was the wind rasen shuriken. They spent 100 episodes for him to learn the thing, only to tell him later he is prohibited of using it because it will damage his magical abilities in an irreversible way forever, only to have him use a giant version of the same skill in the movie...... and nothing happens with him after that. If you have a forbidden techinique with consequences, you better apply those consequences or come up with a really good excuse as to why it did not happen.
Because the movie is non-canon if you were to keep watching then ya would have found out that he learned to throw it instead
Your argument at the end with the neji fight didn't realy fit cause you ignored all the built up that fight had with lee through out the chunin exams.
like lee was all about "underdogs succeding through hard work" (which was even shown with him fighting sasuke and winning befor the chunin exams even started and everything up to the gaara fight only reinforced it) and neji being his rival opposed that view with his "fate is everything" mentality.
So when naruto faught neji that was the main theme of the fight going into it cause when the fight started we didn't know about the hyuuga sealing their branch members, we only found that out half way through the fight, so we (and naruto) could only assume his "fate is everything" refered to people being born strong/talented or weak/untalented and it was still a typical underdog proves themself story.
and even the seal and dead dad revial didn't realy change that cause those were just the reasons his "fate is everything" mentality is grounded in.
and while you can try to reinterpret the fight into being about naruto adressing nejis hate instead, its take abit to many mental gymnastics for me to justify that (like nejis hate doesn't even get adressed by naruto, hinatas dad is the one who does that after the fight by explaining the truth about what happend with his brother)
all naruto cared about was beating neji in the name of hinata and lee (his fellow weak untelented ninja) cause at this point it was very much an underdog story
which is why people noticed that alot of early naruto doesn't fit with the stuff kishimoto came up with in late shipuden (which was basicly anything set during the war arc and after)
I do think Lee's themes do clash a little with Neji's but that's not what Naruto fans have been complaining about. The idea that "Neji was right" which gets parroted all the time is easily proven wrong when you realize Neji was calling Naruto an eternal loser
@@KatoBeyond the reason people say "neji is right" wasn't because he called naruto a loser, thats arguing in bad faith.
they say "neji was right" cause of the way he talks about fate and how "your life is decided at birth" and while naruto beating him with kyuubi chakra in that fight was already abit dumb in trying to disprove the fate argument but still excusable.
as being a jinjuruki is alot more of a double edged sword then most fans realise (social isolation and discrimination, the kyuubi messing with his chakra making jutsu difficult, and just having a sentient being in your body that wants you dead and all that) and naruto using it to beat neji was like showing he overcame that disadvantage which was already abit of a strech but still acceptable.
And then we found out that narutos dad was a kage, his mom was from an op clan, and he himself is basicly ninja jesus reincarnated.
So yeah people are understandably annoyed cause going from a story about ninjas finding clever ways to beat their opponents with a main charakter who manged to turn a disadvantage into something he can use, to a story about fighting space aliens with god powers he got from being born a special little boy is to put it blutly frustrating.
So yeah neji was right when he said that "kage are born" and that narutos place in the world was decided by fate, just cause neji didn't know what that fate would be doesn't actually invalidate his argument
@@rotkappchenlp7032 It does invalidate his argument. Neji was using his argument to justify his behavior, which was abusive to the people in his life. Naruto then appeared and correctly pointed out that Neji doesn't know what other people's fates are. He was telling Neji to change his behavior. Naruto was more right than Neji was.
" like lee was all about "underdogs succeding through hard work" (which was even shown with him fighting sasuke and winning befor the chunin exams even started and everything up to the gaara fight only reinforced it)"
-Lee wasn't an underdog when he fought Sasuke before the chunin exam. He literally attacked and beat a rookie ninja just because of his name.
About the whole Neji thing, I agree with Kato on this one. He said all there needs to be said about the fight.
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"naruto using it to beat neji was like showing he overcame that disadvantage which was already abit of a stretch"
-It is by no means a stretch. He used what he had to win. It's similar to using a tool or food pills.
" going from a story about ninjas finding clever ways to beat their opponents with a main charakter who manged to turn a disadvantage into something he can use, to a story about fighting space aliens with god powers he got from being born a special little boy is to put it blutly frustrating"
-Ninjas never stopped finding clever ways to beat enemies.
-The only reason Naruto's chakra was somewhat a disadvantage is that he didn't have the proper help. After he received the help he had more control over his naturally massive chakra reserves.
- Naruto did not get the powers from being born "a special little boy". To be clear The only thing he had since birth is his Uzumaki-like chakra pool(which the other surviving Uzumaki members had) and the nine tails which was an outside source he learns to fight with. He had to work hard to use those.
Naruto- Wanted to be recognized and respected, because of the way the village treated him(he didn't receive any proper training until Jiraiya). Along the way he made friends met many people and forged bonds(which the tone of the story kinda shifted to) a little before he gain recognition from the village. He worked hard to achieve his goal
Lee- wanted to show, that even without ninjutsu and genjutsu he could still become a splendid ninja. He worked hard to achieve his goal.
The story
Recognition & respect ----> bonds ---> breaking the cycle = All three mixed together.
@@KatoBeyond neji was wrong about what narutos fate was that it true, but neji wasn't wrong about the fact that narutos fate had been decided from birth.
Naruto is litarally the reincarnation of some ninja demi-god which (caused him to be given powers through a literal deus exmachina) that were necessary to beat Madara and later Kaguya.
Yes there were alot of themes about the bonds of friendship and overcoming hate but the fact of the matter is that the only reason naruto won that fight is cause he was born a special little boy and not through effort of his own
Neji wasn't right about narutos fate about being a loser cause he didn't know about all the facts of narutos birth, but he wasn't wrong about his philosophy of fate with it being decided when someone is born
Hiruzen was scared that Minato would bypass the reaper death seal to come beat his ahh for how he treated his son
Great video just some explanations for some stuff: For the 9 tails strength disparity, the leaf village, as you said, barely had any control over it so they really couldnt use it against the other villages, and for the Minato point, he said himself he wasnt very good at using sage mode and only really used it against the 10 tails Jinjurichis because that was the only way he could damage them
Minato not being good at using sage mode is weird since he has a perfect version just like Naruto. I never liked the explanation Kishi gave us
@@quincyquincy4764 I also agree that Minato is demonstrably not bad at using Sage Mode at all
Kabuto actually brings up the hokage when explaining edo tensi to obito and explains that orichmaru was trying to bring back Minato but it fail because of the reaper death seal its still doesn't really add up with the third coffin though cause normally they store the body in a coffin after reanimating it
11:54 that actually happened the second ninja war was everyone against the leaf because of how Op they were but at the end of that war there was cease fire because everyone kept getting dunked on by the leaf.
i think the biggest retcon is the fact that there is a spinoff called boruto.
Worst thing that ever happened to the series was making Hashirama and Madara demi-gods. Actually second worst besides all of the bs mangekyo sharingan abilities
Hashirama and Madara being op isn't realy as bad since the story always framed them as these larger then life figures of myth anyway so them being that strong actually fits, the problem was more the space aliens and bs reincarnations powers
@@rotkappchenlp7032 No. Them being powerful would be fine, the level of power they did have was not.
@@shadenox8164 to be fair the only time we saw them fight was as imortal zombies with infinit chakra, so I don't think anything they did in the war arc realy counts
When Orochimaru brings up the different Kage, the third casket has the number 4 on it (四), so it was clear that it was intended to be the fourth hokage. The others say 初 (First) and 二 (Second), for clarification.
Don’t forget about the battle between orochimaru and the 3rd when the anbu said that the 2nd’s water style was of a hokage level cause no water was nearby.
That one makes me laugh given what we see later on
When do we see that level of suiton with no water nearby that doesn't come from another kage level shinobi?
Maybe hiruzen just didn’t want to have to fight 4 kage level ninja including orichimaru
Would you consider it a retcon if the point of the village system was to keep children from dying young yet we have 12 year olds becoming genin and cases like Kakashi and Itachi's childhoods? Seems very counterproductive imo. Hell Tsunade's little brother died young
Thats not realy a redcon thats just hiruzen being a bad kage
@@rotkappchenlp7032 Not even Hiruzen. Hashirama and Tobirama
@@cliffbot638 I don't think hashirama and tobirama were the ones to start messing that up.
since it was hashiramas (and madaras) dream in the first place to not have kids dying in war anymore it be wierd for him to mess it up.
and tobirama canonicly died to the gold and silver brothers while his students escaped to konoha (seriously he invented teleportation he could have escaped but it probly would have meant leaving his students to die)
so I don't think these two were the ones to fuck up with sending kids to war especialy as they both died during the first shinobi war
So it seems more a hiruzen thing especialy as he was kage during the time kakashi and itachi happend
(also like danzos army of brainwashed kids)
Hmm
@@cliffbot638because of mounting pressure with the third war then having the Uchiha clan getting wiped out then losing the fourth hokage in a year
It's also weird how rules of reanimation changed for just Madara.
In Naruto Orochimaru sacrificed his men to reanimate the Hokage.
Shippuden also shows reanimation needs a living body and makes do with Zetsu army for all Kages, the All-Knowing and Akatsuki. But Madara is very special, not only is he reanimated from a body having fused Hashirama cells(not sure how thats different from other Zetsus) but he, as a possessing spirit can tap into its kekkei genkai and do all wood style jutsus.
He should've disappeared along with the others
I understand the confusion about the 4th hokage edo tensei, but I never thought it was that definitive of a plot hole, since the way I understood it was simply that Orochimaru could not summon the fourth hokage because his soul was sealed away. What would some shurikens do to stop the reanimation anyway? this might not be the case and just be a plot hole, but I wanted to add this consideration
Also the explanation as to why Hiruzen was able to beat the reanimations of the first and second hokage is that, as Kabuto states later, Orochimaru's edo tensei reanimated people with far less strength than they used to possess in order to be able to control them. So obviously these reincarnations were weaker.
This is a retcon as well because Kabuto only says it much later down the line in the war arc, but that's the retcon, not the part where Hiruzen beat the two even though they were made much stronger later on
Orochimaru did have his arms back in OG Naruto after doing the emergency body swap instead of using Sasuke's body, only his jutsu knowledge was still taken from him (or that was what Hiruzen stated, and seemed to be the case). You can ACTUALLY SEE his jutsus returning to him when undoing the reaper's seal to revive the hokage, his arms start glowing with chakra because of it. They did not forget about that which I found very impressive at the time bc it seems to me like something you'd EASILY forget about
And the Sand village did at the time not know that Konoha was in possession of the nine tailed fox, since the sealing was kept a secret.
Why the Konoha citizens were fine with ignoring that immense power inside a little child is a valid point of contention, however my head cannon to that would be that nobody really knew it was the sort of seal to let the chakra leak through at all (Orochimaru and Jiraiya both only found out upon inspecting Naruto's seal, so I assume it was not common knowledge at that point)
Pain's plan was never to build that atomic bomb he was talking about, it was retconned into it being the same Moon Eye plan, for which they do need all tailed beasts' chakra. This is still a retcon, but at least they addressed it. Funnily enough, Akatsuki's plans as explained by Pain were retconned TWICE, once when he explained it to Hidan, the second time when he explained it to Naruto, both being wrong ultimately
also in case anyone cares i once did a calculation, assuming that all the other tailed beasts are about the same strength, Kurama alone makes up about 60% of the entire chakra of the Ten Tails, ultimately meaning that Naruto's beast at the time of their fight was like 6 times stronger than Gaara's shukaku. Obviously this did not help that much because Shukaku was out fully and Naruto only used a tiny bit of nine tails chakra at the very end of their battle, but still.
Dude Neji was right the entire time😂
You completely missed the mark on that one.
Neji was wrong
10:40
One of the reasons it was forbidden for anyone in Konoha to talk about Naruto possessing the 9 tails was so it wouldn't be common knowledge. The 9 tails being sealed within Naruto was a secret from everyone outside the leaf village, which is why the Sand thought Shukaku would have been enough. Without the 9 tails, Konoha lacks any Jinchuriki or Bijuu on standby for battle purposes. That's also why Naruto had his last name changed to Uzumaki from Namikaze, so he wouldn't be suspected nor targeted for being Minato's son, and he could live freely without being confined to the village for his Jinchuriki status.
11:00
Pain's plan requires the 9 tails to be the last tailed beast sealed within the Gedo statue. Even for a tailed beast, Kurama has such an obscene amount of Chakra in reserve that sealing Kurama before the Gedo Statue absorbed the other bijuu and grew stronger would have overloaded it. That, along with Obito's deal with Itachi to avoid attacking the leaf village, is why the akatsuki waited until there were only 2 tailed beasts left and Itachi was dead to go after Naruto.
15:30
For me, Naruto being the child of prophecy changes nothing. The great toad sage had a vision of the future. If what Naruto had said was true and everyone forges their own destiny, then it would still be up to Naruto to make that future happen through hard work, guts, and determination, meaning he still has to earn the title "Child of Prophecy" for himself.
What rubs me the wrong way is the Ashura stuff. Kurama doesn't guarantee anything for Naruto. In fact, for most of his early life he was a detriment, because Kurama's massive power being sealed inside him made it harder for him to discern and control his own Chakra. Having Kurama means nothing unless Naruto puts in the hard work to master and control that power. The same applies to the Uzumaki clan retcon. Some people say that Naruto being born into an OP clan ruins him too. I once again disagree. While the extra stamina and hardiness from being an Uzumaki definitely helped, the massive amount of Chakra Uzumaki have also served to embellish the issues he had with Chakra control even more, and he had to work even harder to master his own body.
But when you say that Naruto is the reincarnation of Ashura, things are different, because Naruto is now naturally inclined to become much stronger and overcome his own shortcomings, which does in my eyes detract from his character. I really wish the sage had said that there were those whose Chakra *reminded* him of Indra and Ashura over the years, and each generation turned out the same, but he gifts Naruto and Sasuke 6 paths powers as a last ditch effort to make things different this time. This would help explain why every generation of ninja has a Naruto and Sasuke, one being the knucklehead that relies on the support of others and one being the genius that does everything themselves. Naruto having the Chakra of an obscenely powerful shinobi influencing him from birth is unsatisfying because it makes it feel like his destiny WAS manipulated in the same way the retcon about black Zetsu pulling the strings of shinobi history made the Manga feel more artifical.
These aren't meant to one-up you or anything, just my thoughts on these retcons, no hate.
That dying smoke detector in the back.💀
Gonna use my head cannon and say the tailed beasts were communicating telepathically the whole time. Neither of them liked their hosts anyways🤷🏾♂️ 10/10 writing
I think the Hokage was just afraid of a third enemy because those other two were already enough and that the ninetails is the strongest just could have been not known and he kept in Konoha to keep an eye on it.
The casket that Hiruzen stopped WAS from the Fourth. There's a kanji for "yon" in front of it that means 4, the same is true for the second hokage casket, with the kanji for "ni".
That was anime only. That being said it doesn't really matter who was in it. An extra opponent was not good for him regardless.
Tell me you didn't read the manga without telling me you didn't read the manga.
In Japanese folklore some animals have sentience and spiritual power, often able to transform themsleves in order to fool people, hence they are called "Bakemono" (Bake = change/transform). Often they are depicted with multiple tails as a tell that they are more than simple animals and the legend is tha they gain a new tail as time passes and as they grow more powerfull, so it is somewhat culturaly implied that the nine tail beast should be stronger than the other one.
The label on the 3rd casket actually says 4 while the others have 1 and 2 on them.