You can tune both the bow and to a limited degree the arrows (various point, insert, and vane combinations). Deep subject, step one tho is tuning a bare shaft to shoot thru paper for a bullet hole. Sometimes changing a combination on the arrow can be the trick; like when 4 shorter vanes helps clear drop away style rests from making contact with the launcher (sometimes launchers are slow to get full clearance or can bounce). Build the hunting arrow to be close to 12% FOC - but can be increased or decreased for special purposes and the bow can be eventually tuned well enough to make the arrow shaft bullet hole tune and group. Once arrows are set then long range group tuning / group shaping/ the bow tiller tune also confirms. Spine align is more important with less straight or under spine. Nock tuning arrows further helps keep groups disciplined. Each can be a book subject it takes so long to get right. Good work on the videos -- keep it up. check out these bucks in the back yard ua-cam.com/video/T0NHDzZOx7Q/v-deo.htmlsi=WTCOwdErWuTvi_ZK
You know Dan has to make a grand entrance, right? 😉🤣. Sounds like you need some new speaks, Dan! Seizures? Hell, I'd set a dozen or more of those strobes off at once and get to trippin' in the attic while listening to the Frog song. 😉🤣 Cheers, boys.
One of those boxes MFJJ is loading up is probably my Engage limb legs lol. Always look for Spokane Archery in the seller section of Amazon and eBay. He's always the least expensive to,but I'd pay more just to support him. Trying to get even for all the free content you guys pass along.
Just a tip, if you glue in a piece of wire or weight into your regular nock, you can match the weight of the lighted nocks, this way you are not wasting batteries all the time on your practice arrows and can use those nocks in states that do not allow lighted nocks. Don’t also have to have two bow setups like they mentioned. I would give a shout out but I can’t remember whose channel I saw that on.
I run the X-impacts as well. I run nocturnal lighted nocks on my hunting setup and a few of them for practice. The rest of the arrows I run pin nocks in because they are the same weight as the nocturnal so the dynamic spine, FOC and weight all stays consistent. Thought I would throw that out there for ya.
Please give the nufletch archery ignitor lighted nocks a try, I’ve been shooting them the last 2 years and have had great luck with them! And if you’re in a state that doesn’t allow them all you have to do is take the light stick out and you’re ready to go! Green are the brightest they offer
Use hot melt in case ya don’t like them then you can just heat up a drill bit and remove them. Let me know if you give them a try. I’ve shot them out to 100 yards and they fly great
I personally love the fire nock system. The lighted knocks are amazing insanely bright however installing that shock cap into the shaft can be a nightmare. If I put 12 of them in two of them I probably have either remove them or use the weighted insert in the back placed into practice.
Switched to the X impacts from gold tip this year for whitetail hunting due to not having pass throughs with the gold tip while using rage hypodermics on the last few deer I shot.Still got good penetration and the deer expired,but wasn’t too happy with no pass throughs.Since switching to the X-impacts with the outserts I’ve shot a buck and doe this year and they blew through the deer like they weren’t even there,very impressed so far.
Dan, have you ever tried bareshaft nock tuning an arrow before? It is amazing how big of a difference there is with arrow flight when the nock is not tuned. I highly recommend you/ entire archery community that uses carbon arrows, to try this out.
Agreed. I just got some new arrows from sirius to experiment with and my first step was seeing how they stuck into the target at 21 ft compared to a perfect fletched arrow. I need to put them through paper but as long as they're close to parallel, you know fletching will make it perfect.
@@JimmyNunChuck Just to be safe add some electrical tape to where the fletching is that ways the same as the fletches would. might not make a big difference but it wouldn't hurt
MFJJ at 4:55 “cut the arrow a little longer to stiffen the arrow” Just getting into tuning arrow to bow instead of bow to arrow. I thought the the shorter the arrow the stiffer?
I think he was just talking fast there, shorter is more stiff, longer is less stiff, no different than a broom stick, really easy to snap a 4’ broom stick, not so easy to snap a 1’ broom stick.
I had the same issues with lighted nocks myself. Actually on three different animals, all had failures after impact. Something that I have been using the last few years with success is reflective arrow wraps. I know some guys don't like to use wraps but they have worked really well in being able to locate my arrow after the shot. In conjunction with some bright colored vanes, it seems to be the the least prone for failure. Also, in regard to the FOCOS outsert. I ran them this year on some Deep Impact 300's and really wasn't a huge fan. I ran into some adhesion issues on the insert post. Tried a few types of glue and prep methods. I also learned you need to be careful with how much you tighten the locking nut that holds the outsert onto the post, otherwise you can strip the aluminum. I do like BE arrows and will be running them again next season. Just might be trying something different as far as an insert/outsert system. Love the channel guys! Keep up the great work. -Mike
I set my rest to 13/16 (or whatever the manufacturer recommends), then I do a walk back tune to set my final position of the rest. Then I will shoot a bareshaft and mess with cam lean to get it in tune. I may make tiny tiny changes to the rest while bareshaft tuning, but try not to touch it, esp with broadheads.
I never hunt west of the Mississippi & I'm always in a 🌳. However my 2021 project I started in June didn't get finished. I bought a new bow last February. I like to buy shafts & make my arrows from scratch. I won't fletch any of them w/o bare shafting them 1st. The last couple of years I've been using the VAP TKO's. I have a 30" draw so I'm pushing the limits on the 300 spine. I ordered a few X-Impacts cuz they offer the 250 spine. I had them cut 1/4" longer than the VAP's. The tuning I did to the shafts, not the bow made both types of arrows shoot identical out of my old bow & my new bow alike. Both bows r very similar. My old bow might be the bow that has shot the best for me in 30 years. I was more than happy with these results but after June I ran out of time to further my testing. All arrows r setup with the Valkyrie system with the matching points. I do like the 45* angle extra wrap that the VAP's have. I also have quite a few FireNocks that I ordered the match weights with but I'm not sure if I will ever get around to installing them. P.S. What bow did u hunt with in 2021?
Shot nockturnal in my bloodline arrows, loved them. Bought several from you for my axis 5mm. They either pull out of the shaft on draw, or pop off string like nock gap is too wide. Factor nocks shoot fine. Suggestions????MFJJ
Love the video and the info, but would love to see you guys take it one step further bc everytime I tune my bow I run into this issue. I will get a great hole using one arrow, but the next arrow may tear totally different. I originally just thought my grip was causing this, but I've played with it a ton and the tears are consistent. So, my only explanation is the spines of the arrows aren't aligned the same. This year I took the time to bare shaft every arrow to get a perfect hole attempting to get all the arrows aligned the same way. Love to know your thoughts...am I totally crazy or is there something to this? Appreciate all you guys do!
This is why I like VAP elite arrows. They mark the spine and if fletched are spine aligned. This makes all arrows behave the same and removes the need to nock tune.
So... we don't do much if anything when it comes to bare shaft tuning. We filmed a part talking about that on this video and I left it out of the video on purpose...because I knew it would piss a bunch of people off at MFJJ. We will do a full bare shaft tune and nock tune video for y'all. Let me say this though, I solve a lot of problems by having my bow super tuned when it comes broadhead time. When you slap a fixed broadhead on the end of a projectile it will really expose your tune and selection of arrows etc... I personally believe MFJJ is so good at tuning that he entirely skips this step, I'm not sure everyone has that option. Thanks for watching. -DS
@@caninphx like I said in comment, this year I took the time to shoot every arrow adjusting nock until I got a perfect hole…ie nock tuning and spine aligning.
Building my own rip tkos as I type and was wondering, would the black eagle focus system for .204 fit the rips? I use the 50gr that victory has currently
Which song was Dan listening to when he pulled up? I like the Nocturnal Switch nocks too, wish they would make them rechargeable though. I tried the Deepower nocks from amazon, similar function, but the switches sucked, and half lit up inconsistently. Good for practice though
MFJJ's take on cable activated rests like qad and ripcords is great...the Hamskea trinity works every time. My only complaint is the rest hits my hand.
As a somewhat new bow hunter I get a little overwhelmed with all the tuning info I see… I’m really not even good enough with the bow to be able to tell if I’m perfectly tuned.. I won’t shoot an animal past 35 and I shoot decent groups at that range so how crazy do I need to get with the tuning?
What is a good arrow option for a 30 inch draw shooting around 73 pounds and wanting a foc around 15-17. I’m shooting the rampages in a 250 spine with 84 grain outsert and 100 grain Broadhead. But would like to lighten a little bit to achieve better long range performance
I’m shooting the X impact with my V3-31 on whitetail. Love them for killing deer. They fly great. They hit hard. However I don’t like to shoot them in foam. I’ve lost a few outserts in 3-D targets shooting them with field points. I’ve tried 2 different kinds of glue. One of them being the IR-1500 instabond. And every now and then I will lose an outsert in a target. Once that happens the target is now worthless. Happend to one of my brand new Rinehart targets. Anyone else experienced this?
@@-lovefromnh during the shot. The strobing might not sync with the frame rate of the camera. You'll see blue, nothing, blue, nothing, red, nothing. And if the arrow impacts an animal when you see nothing it pretty pointless for film. As apposed to a regular nock that is just a bright flying light.
@@jackbuendgen389 good to know. I have been shooting the strobing nocks for the last 2 years. I am going to start my journey of self filming next year. I guess I will be doing some testing before using those strobing nocks again! Thanks for the heads up.
You can tune both the bow and to a limited degree the arrows (various point, insert, and vane combinations). Deep subject, step one tho is tuning a bare shaft to shoot thru paper for a bullet hole. Sometimes changing a combination on the arrow can be the trick; like when 4 shorter vanes helps clear drop away style rests from making contact with the launcher (sometimes launchers are slow to get full clearance or can bounce). Build the hunting arrow to be close to 12% FOC - but can be increased or decreased for special purposes and the bow can be eventually tuned well enough to make the arrow shaft bullet hole tune and group. Once arrows are set then long range group tuning / group shaping/ the bow tiller tune also confirms. Spine align is more important with less straight or under spine. Nock tuning arrows further helps keep groups disciplined. Each can be a book subject it takes so long to get right. Good work on the videos -- keep it up. check out these bucks in the back yard ua-cam.com/video/T0NHDzZOx7Q/v-deo.htmlsi=WTCOwdErWuTvi_ZK
You know Dan has to make a grand entrance, right? 😉🤣. Sounds like you need some new speaks, Dan! Seizures? Hell, I'd set a dozen or more of those strobes off at once and get to trippin' in the attic while listening to the Frog song. 😉🤣 Cheers, boys.
One of those boxes MFJJ is loading up is probably my Engage limb legs lol. Always look for Spokane Archery in the seller section of Amazon and eBay. He's always the least expensive to,but I'd pay more just to support him. Trying to get even for all the free content you guys pass along.
I totally agree with you!! I started ordering from his shop for the same reason. I want to give back some way.
Dan and MFJJ thanks for these videos. Just wish I lived closer to Spokane.
This year I built up Black Eagle X-Impacts with the Iron Will Snyder Core system and loved them. They worked flawlessly on whitetails! ABT
Thank you for sharing this great information 👍
Glad it was helpful!
Great intro and graphics on this video . It was very classy, professional .
Just a tip, if you glue in a piece of wire or weight into your regular nock, you can match the weight of the lighted nocks, this way you are not wasting batteries all the time on your practice arrows and can use those nocks in states that do not allow lighted nocks. Don’t also have to have two bow setups like they mentioned. I would give a shout out but I can’t remember whose channel I saw that on.
Producer Tim is on point today!
Great video boys! Really looking forward to seeing your 2022 elk arrow build!!
Frogstomp is one of my all time favorite albums!!
So glad you mentioned FROG STOMP!!!
Check out Woody's archery. For 204 lighted nocks. They have the switch to turn them off and there half the price of nocturnals
I’m glad to see nockturnal has a easy and better way of turning light off those old ones used to annoy the bleep out of me
I run the X-impacts as well. I run nocturnal lighted nocks on my hunting setup and a few of them for practice. The rest of the arrows I run pin nocks in because they are the same weight as the nocturnal so the dynamic spine, FOC and weight all stays consistent. Thought I would throw that out there for ya.
Great info as always! Thanks again.
You bet!
Silver Chair. Favorite song Tomorrow
Please give the nufletch archery ignitor lighted nocks a try, I’ve been shooting them the last 2 years and have had great luck with them! And if you’re in a state that doesn’t allow them all you have to do is take the light stick out and you’re ready to go! Green are the brightest they offer
Noted!
Use hot melt in case ya don’t like them then you can just heat up a drill bit and remove them. Let me know if you give them a try. I’ve shot them out to 100 yards and they fly great
I personally love the fire nock system. The lighted knocks are amazing insanely bright however installing that shock cap into the shaft can be a nightmare. If I put 12 of them in two of them I probably have either remove them or use the weighted insert in the back placed into practice.
Switched to the X impacts from gold tip this year for whitetail hunting due to not having pass throughs with the gold tip while using rage hypodermics on the last few deer I shot.Still got good penetration and the deer expired,but wasn’t too happy with no pass throughs.Since switching to the X-impacts with the outserts I’ve shot a buck and doe this year and they blew through the deer like they weren’t even there,very impressed so far.
Dan, have you ever tried bareshaft nock tuning an arrow before? It is amazing how big of a difference there is with arrow flight when the nock is not tuned. I highly recommend you/ entire archery community that uses carbon arrows, to try this out.
They have a whole video as to why MFJJ and subsequently dan don't bareshaft tune.
Agreed. I just got some new arrows from sirius to experiment with and my first step was seeing how they stuck into the target at 21 ft compared to a perfect fletched arrow. I need to put them through paper but as long as they're close to parallel, you know fletching will make it perfect.
@@JimmyNunChuck Just to be safe add some electrical tape to where the fletching is that ways the same as the fletches would. might not make a big difference but it wouldn't hurt
The rip tko's come spine aligned. So they usually don't need nock tuned. And black eagle has the best straightness tolerance I've seen.
@@HickLif3 It is a big difference actually, if people dont add the weight to simulate the fletch weight, they are just wasting time.
I’m assuming you’re getting the hamskea epsilon? Looking forward to that review
Yessir - just patiently waiting to slap it on my V3X 33. -DS
@@ElkShape do you have it yet Harry told me mid January but I haven’t tried super hard to get one
Would love to see if you put a 150 grain head on to see the extra drop and extra accuracy just to see!
That's an option for sure. -DS
MFJJ at 4:55 “cut the arrow a little longer to stiffen the arrow”
Just getting into tuning arrow to bow instead of bow to arrow.
I thought the the shorter the arrow the stiffer?
I think he was just talking fast there, shorter is more stiff, longer is less stiff, no different than a broom stick, really easy to snap a 4’ broom stick, not so easy to snap a 1’ broom stick.
@@crabwalk1891 YEP - he had too much coffee, Crab Walk nailed it and that is what MFJJ meant! Thanks bros! -DS
Is it possible to build a adapter to put a 204 nock in a 4mm shaft ? To avoid using the 4mm nock , love the channel boys
What are you replacing your Hamskea Trinity with? If you don’t mind me asking.
I had the same issues with lighted nocks myself. Actually on three different animals, all had failures after impact. Something that I have been using the last few years with success is reflective arrow wraps. I know some guys don't like to use wraps but they have worked really well in being able to locate my arrow after the shot. In conjunction with some bright colored vanes, it seems to be the the least prone for failure.
Also, in regard to the FOCOS outsert. I ran them this year on some Deep Impact 300's and really wasn't a huge fan. I ran into some adhesion issues on the insert post. Tried a few types of glue and prep methods. I also learned you need to be careful with how much you tighten the locking nut that holds the outsert onto the post, otherwise you can strip the aluminum. I do like BE arrows and will be running them again next season. Just might be trying something different as far as an insert/outsert system.
Love the channel guys! Keep up the great work.
-Mike
I set my rest to 13/16 (or whatever the manufacturer recommends), then I do a walk back tune to set my final position of the rest. Then I will shoot a bareshaft and mess with cam lean to get it in tune. I may make tiny tiny changes to the rest while bareshaft tuning, but try not to touch it, esp with broadheads.
I use 4mm arrows for hunting. I have never had an issue with Nocturnal lighted nocks.
I never hunt west of the Mississippi & I'm always in a 🌳. However my 2021 project I started in June didn't get finished. I bought a new bow last February. I like to buy shafts & make my arrows from scratch. I won't fletch any of them w/o bare shafting them 1st. The last couple of years I've been using the VAP TKO's. I have a 30" draw so I'm pushing the limits on the 300 spine. I ordered a few X-Impacts cuz they offer the 250 spine. I had them cut 1/4" longer than the VAP's. The tuning I did to the shafts, not the bow made both types of arrows shoot identical out of my old bow & my new bow alike. Both bows r very similar. My old bow might be the bow that has shot the best for me in 30 years. I was more than happy with these results but after June I ran out of time to further my testing. All arrows r setup with the Valkyrie system with the matching points. I do like the 45* angle extra wrap that the VAP's have. I also have quite a few FireNocks that I ordered the match weights with but I'm not sure if I will ever get around to installing them. P.S. What bow did u hunt with in 2021?
Shot nockturnal in my bloodline arrows, loved them. Bought several from you for my axis 5mm. They either pull out of the shaft on draw, or pop off string like nock gap is too wide. Factor nocks shoot fine. Suggestions????MFJJ
Can y’all do a video for the best 4mm lighted nock? I hate the price but maybe the firenock would be good……idk???
noted -DS
Love the video and the info, but would love to see you guys take it one step further bc everytime I tune my bow I run into this issue. I will get a great hole using one arrow, but the next arrow may tear totally different. I originally just thought my grip was causing this, but I've played with it a ton and the tears are consistent. So, my only explanation is the spines of the arrows aren't aligned the same. This year I took the time to bare shaft every arrow to get a perfect hole attempting to get all the arrows aligned the same way. Love to know your thoughts...am I totally crazy or is there something to this? Appreciate all you guys do!
This is why I like VAP elite arrows. They mark the spine and if fletched are spine aligned. This makes all arrows behave the same and removes the need to nock tune.
That's because you're not nock tuning/spine aligning the arrows.
So... we don't do much if anything when it comes to bare shaft tuning. We filmed a part talking about that on this video and I left it out of the video on purpose...because I knew it would piss a bunch of people off at MFJJ. We will do a full bare shaft tune and nock tune video for y'all. Let me say this though, I solve a lot of problems by having my bow super tuned when it comes broadhead time. When you slap a fixed broadhead on the end of a projectile it will really expose your tune and selection of arrows etc... I personally believe MFJJ is so good at tuning that he entirely skips this step, I'm not sure everyone has that option. Thanks for watching. -DS
@@caninphx yep, that is correct.
@@caninphx like I said in comment, this year I took the time to shoot every arrow adjusting nock until I got a perfect hole…ie nock tuning and spine aligning.
Building my own rip tkos as I type and was wondering, would the black eagle focus system for .204 fit the rips? I use the 50gr that victory has currently
Which song was Dan listening to when he pulled up? I like the Nocturnal Switch nocks too, wish they would make them rechargeable though. I tried the Deepower nocks from amazon, similar function, but the switches sucked, and half lit up inconsistently. Good for practice though
Pure massacre silverchair
@@mattjorgensen4610 Thanks man
Is it possible to build a adapter to put a 204 nock in a 4mm shaft ? To avoid using the 4mm nock
MFJJ's take on cable activated rests like qad and ripcords is great...the Hamskea trinity works every time. My only complaint is the rest hits my hand.
I think Hamskea addressed that issue with their new rest that just came out.
As a somewhat new bow hunter I get a little overwhelmed with all the tuning info I see… I’m really not even good enough with the bow to be able to tell if I’m perfectly tuned.. I won’t shoot an animal past 35 and I shoot decent groups at that range so how crazy do I need to get with the tuning?
Boxing up my order of Wac’em broadheads.
Power wagon = Boss.
It’s gets hot it’s too cold it gets wet Mann get a whisker biscotti 😂😅
Those were probably my arrows 🤣😂
Does firenock not make one?
What is a good arrow option for a 30 inch draw shooting around 73 pounds and wanting a foc around 15-17. I’m shooting the rampages in a 250 spine with 84 grain outsert and 100 grain Broadhead. But would like to lighten a little bit to achieve better long range performance
If you want to stay .204 diameter try the Victory RIP XV. 250 spine is 8gr per inch vs 10.7gpi of the Rampage's.
"the real talent" lmao
I'm so new to this I have no clue what anyone's talking about 🤣🤣🤣 all good though lol
Your in the right place iv learned more about archery in last year and half watching this channel than I thought there was to learn
You want a great .204 nock. Get some woodys starburst nocks.
I know a guy who will do a super fancy coating
I may have a job for ya in an upcoming video... I'll holler at ya! -DS
Get a whisker biscuit 😅
I’m shooting the X impact with my V3-31 on whitetail.
Love them for killing deer.
They fly great.
They hit hard.
However I don’t like to shoot them in foam.
I’ve lost a few outserts in 3-D targets shooting them with field points.
I’ve tried 2 different kinds of glue.
One of them being the IR-1500 instabond.
And every now and then I will lose an outsert in a target.
Once that happens the target is now worthless.
Happend to one of my brand new Rinehart targets.
Anyone else experienced this?
Nope i have the deep impacts and use black eagle outsert glue and I also sand the shaft before applying glue
@@garrettdraper416
So do I.
What glue are you using
@@jayonez137 the outsert glue that black eagle sells on there website it’s black I believe I haven’t had a single problem
I also use the same arrows for 3D shooting and I shoot delta and rhinehart targets mainly and haven’t had a problem even outta the old delta targets
Strobing nocks don't work as well on camera.
During the shot or after?
@@-lovefromnh during the shot. The strobing might not sync with the frame rate of the camera. You'll see blue, nothing, blue, nothing, red, nothing. And if the arrow impacts an animal when you see nothing it pretty pointless for film. As apposed to a regular nock that is just a bright flying light.
@@jackbuendgen389 good to know. I have been shooting the strobing nocks for the last 2 years. I am going to start my journey of self filming next year. I guess I will be doing some testing before using those strobing nocks again! Thanks for the heads up.
@@-lovefromnh ua-cam.com/video/bn4Rxi0DEYY/v-deo.html
This THP episode from last season illustrates it perfect