Narcissists are not Parents, they are the wounded children turned into Brats forever! They have nothing to do with the parenting infact in their case everything's about projection. Pathological Projection! . And sadly! Sometimes their children play role of their Parents. 💔
I think people often don’t realise how traumatising it really is, to continually be on the receiving end of the steady stream of devaluation from a narcissistic family. it’s incredibly painful to be ostracised, not because you’ve caused any real harm or done anything truly offensive, but merely because looking after yourself and your own children instead of orbiting the narcissistic parent and affirming them slavishly (which honestly, still would not appease them) somehow makes you a despicable creature who’s “not worth the air you breathe”
And that's why you can't be consumed by how others see you, or what they feel about the choices that you make. You have to live your life without worrying about other people. You have to learn to do what is best for you and yours. Being around a narcissist will drain and kill who you are and you in every way possible.
@@ladennayoung2939 Caring what others think about you is inaccurately assuming their opinion is credible. Ask yourself, is there opinion credible? Ninety-eight percent of the time, the answer is a resounding, "Hell, No!"
This is so deep. I've waited my whole life for this. I'm 69 and still recovering from an almost unbelievable childhood. Appreciate the work and your insight 🙏
I was 46 when I finally walked away from the envy, backbiting, gossip, rage, codependence, flying monkeys and lunacy. I'm thankful there were non-family adults from whom we kids received validating love. Pity those children who only have their malignant parents as role models.
i am 22. my left jaw cracked inwards. now I have a tinnitus in the left ear. to survive i need to be a workaholic. but my health issues are shit. I was in a big company. i want to do there a apprenticeship as electrican. There was an guy, otto was his name. He asked me:" How is your mother" and I said:" I hate she" Then he was smiling. He had a mother like me. Then he said to me that he was one day go home after work and drove with his motorcycle and then there was a car that hit him. His back rip was broken. Then he said : " I sit in the chair so that my rip goes right in the right place, I dont commit suicide" he said to me I should not commit suicide?? But now with my broken left jaw and chronic fatique and tinnitus I want to. The company fired me because I was so broken. I reached my high school last year and then I had a trauma, because I realisen I played for 21 years a role that I am not. I was for 4 months at home and then I started this apprenticeship as electrican. I have needed a break from everything. And to survive, Now I need to be a workaholic. I also found that I am an MBTI INFJ. I am highly sensetive. I was now thinkinng to study computer Science dual degree. But my tinnitus and my ear pressure and my jaw is so annoying. I was born as an Bump. Then I had teacher which fooled me when they saw I had mood swings that I should I go to the crafts. Bastard teacher
I remember being 14 yrs old and feeling so lonely and broken and coming to the realization that the crazy raging abusive violence by my parents was never going to change . Being the family scapegoat was pretty much unbearable - but I survived their wicked behaviour with lifelong depression and avoidance issues in tow . Even after marrying and moving out these people thought my world was so small that it still revolved around them . They joined a pyramid scheme type home sales business popular at the time and harangued me unmercifully to sign on despite my trying to keep a distance from them . It made little sense to me - their most hated kid - to be further tied to them so they were free to keep the abuse going . All my siblings told me none of them were expected to sell these products . Their scheme to keep me indebted to them and taking a cut from any potential sale I made was certainly part of the end game . Only NO CONTACT gave me any peace from them . I wonder how many kids are out there right now trying to live through what we went through .
It is devastating to think of all the children who will never be helped or shown the light... But I know there are many that can be reached, can be saved.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I'm also the scapegoat/invisible child. My family always put me down and never celebrate my acomplishments. Even though I left home ten Years Ago I was Still under their trap. I moved back my hometown even though I always hated It and felt dislocated there. As soon as I got there i had a fight with my abusive brother and left her house to a hotel while me and my partner waited for our house stuff. This was enough for her to Freak out with me. Bottom line, I did a cut off and in the midst of that my husband went to surgery and when i finally told her she Said i could count on her, since It wasnt on her working hour. It hurt so bad. I sucked It UP, supported my partner and got the hell out of there for good.
Loads of kids. My guess would be 50%, to one degree or another and likely more. My estimate is based upon the number of hostile, preditory or otherwise barely functional people I run across. Where it is entirely obvious, to me at least.
My mother thought I owed her for birthing me or bringing me to Europe as a child. I told my narc mother to her face, I owed her Nothing!. She did not like that one bit because she couldn't control me anymore as an adult living my life and I've got my own family. It's crazy how this people think. You owe them nothing. Just carry on living your life like they don't exist. My mothers love was conditional and I grew up to hate her for that
I think this is why I find it so hard to unwind. If I'm doing nothing, I owe it to someone to be doing something. Even though I'm the only person I owe anything to. I have to consciously remind myself that it's okay to be doing nothing if that's my choice, and that I don't owe it to anyone to be doing something productive. None is going to reprimand me or criticise me for doing nothing. In fact, no one is going to know. Shaking the invisible, critical, narc parent in my head is a slow process
It's not even the thought of 'you should be doing something'. It's about not being able to relax anymore because there was always - always - always the threat of being scrutinized. When your existence is only tolerated, there is no way you can relax in being (with) yourself.
YEP. I upset a very happy life I built to be nearer to my mother, to "help her" with her issues and give her more access to her grandchild (she'd laid on the sob-stories/guilt every time I called). MAJOR FAIL... She has never been happy with anything I've done for her--even when I moved just across town from her she claimed it was too far (and I'd moved from the UK back to the US for her!!). :/
@@maribelsantana157 If you angered them, then they are your servants now. Keep going no contact with them and stay free from their toxicity. You are doing a great job.
The first summer break from college confirmed my long-term suspicion that Mom wasn't well. Since birth I had submitted to the physical and mental abuse, the envy, gaslighting and disregard, the favoritism she showed to older sister and younger brother. After I had my own children and recalled my parents' reactions to normal situations, I confronted Dad about Mom's behavior. Though he remained her enabler, he shared enough "secrets" for me to put all the puzzling pieces together, and I realized our mother wished I had never been born. I still gave her the benefit of a doubt another four decades, but finally realized that -- for the sake of myself and my own family -- I had to walk away and leave it up to her to maintain the relationship. She was invited countless times to call, visit, be part of our family, and she refused. Perhaps she saved my children a lot of grief by screaming "IT'S MY TIME!!" and staying out of our lives.
I definately felt this debt scenario and worked so hard to please my toxic parents. It was all a huge waste of my effort. It was only after I called them out on some bad behavior, and they got hostile and dosed me at 2 family gatherings, putting me in the hospital, forcing me to go No Contact 10 yrs ago, that the cycle stopped. If that had not happened, I'd still be doing it to this day I'm sure. Great message as usual Jay, you may literally save someone's life with this insight.
My narcissistic dad always justified his abuse of me by saying he was “entitled” because he gave me the “gift” of life 🙄 I remember as a teenager I got fed up and yelled, “I don’t care if you gave me the ‘gift’ of life… I want a refund!” He also acted like he was so amazing because he fed me and put a roof over my head growing up and finally I told him, “look, an orphanage would’ve done that. Jail would’ve even done that. I didn’t ask to be born, so you don’t get to ask for gratitude by giving someone a gift they didn’t ask for or didn’t want.”
American hustle culture says you can't relax, either, so it's reinforces, moreso if you're a man. I spend my own money and have a fun life and narcs hate me for it.
When I was a little girl I got emotionally “dog piled” on about “loyalty” I didn’t know what the hell he (my dad) was talking about. Only that it was I overwhelming, agonizing and confusing.
Brilliant demonstration. So perfectly right. The parent is internalized. Confusion about protecting oneself or protecting the narcissistic parent or both and nothing feels right anyway.
My parents have done a lot to cripple me, and have made it impossible for me to become independent from them as an adult. As a result of my being dependent on them, they have made the assumption that I owe them because they've done so much for me.
The parent indeed _feels_ you owe them even after you are an adult. _"Your existence is for my personal use"_ , says the narc and it's ugly if you say (as you SHOULD): "No."
I have so much guilt because I feel I'm an ingrate. She never hugged me, said one positive thing to me, spent time with me, but she gave me clothes, food and shelter. Gave me a place to stay in hard times. I was an obligation she fulfilled without joy of any kind. I feel I owe her because I ruined her life.
WOW!!..I could've written this! Learning about (CEN)... Childhood Emotional Neglect helped me tremendously! It's definitely not your fault! Stay strong and safe! 🙏
My NMom would always say if "it weren't for her, I'd be dead in a ditch". Looking back it's so sad that was another crazy thing I was supposed to be grateful for as a little kid. So often now I think wtaf. Who acts like this? Jay I am so thankful for you teaching me. It's like the fog rolls away and I can finally see things with some clarity. I keep coming back to your videos when I need help to cope. You are a life line to me Jay thank you. Ive come to know God as a good Father. He is the Father to the fatherless. It's taken me so long to build a relationship with Him out of false perceptions I had because of my parents but im finally receiving His love and its healing me. I hope that for all of you too. You deserve it.
@@southernbawselady7092 Just now saw your reply. Thank you for it. I have a hard time because my experience of my mom was one of her indifference to me. She wasn't interested in me. She never hit me or said I owed her anything or said she wished I hadn't been born. I think that is one I feel so guilty. I mistook her providing food and shelter as love. You seem to have had the same experience. Is that true? Do you think that is why we can't separate from her?
@@nancybartley4610 Yes, it was very hard to heal and let go until I read this bible scripture... Matthew 10:36... "Your worst enemies will be members of your own family" So sad, but true! Stay strong and blessed! 🙏
It has been interesting to watch the relationships between all 4 of my siblings deteriorate since both parents passed away 9 years ago. It’s as if all of the family relationships centered around the narcissistic parent and now that he’s gone there’s nothing to hold the other relationships together.
Same here. Before my mother died I tried to stop the triangulation. There was no response. There was nothing there but role playing and pretending. We were a Sucralose Family... superficially sweet, but leaves nothing but a bad after-taste.
I’ve noticed the same thing since my mother passed away 2 years ago. It’s as if dissolution of the family after her death is the ultimate confirmation that the family and it’s members and their relationships only existed to satisfy her needs and that all of the family’s energy was directed to that goal.
That is awful. i don't know you but I am happy for you. Wonderful accomplishment. You have really achieved something to be proud of. Shame on your mom. Same thing happened to me when I graduated university. Not a smile or a hug. Nothing. Same when I got married.
Well, I'm not your mother and can only assume that you love your mother and wish she loves you as you need but she can't/won't, so I just want to say, "Good on you for passing! I am very happy for you :). All the very best to you as you chase your dreams, no matter what they are but if law is it then onwards & upwards kiddo! I'm proud of you even though we've never met - still proud of you. High five". xo
Congratulations on your acceptance to law school!!! That's awesome!! What an accomplishment 👏 Be very proud and recognize your hard work to get there. I've learned not to share accomplishments with NM because she can't or won't celebrate and her lack of approval or rejection can steal away the joy of what I earned. While I wish I learned this lesson much earlier, stopped looking for her approval much sooner, it took me many years and much heartache but now I don't put her in that power role. I accept that she would not be happy for me because that's the reality. It freed me up to celebrate my own success and over time share my successes with supportive people who have capacity to celebrate achievements with me. Maybe this could help you sooner? Wishing you all the best with law school and the many great accomplishments ahead in your bright future. Keep chasing down your dreams!
Over the years I’ve had a hard time keeping people permanently blocked, but this has come at a cost. I swear they can sense whenever I am about to embark on something healthy and expansive. Has anyone else noticed this? Suddenly I’ll get texts or calls while I’m meeting a deadline, starting a new job, or am about to leave for a vacation. Even before an appointment to see a healer- a weird demand was suddenly issued. It’s almost like they can sense a threat and were actively trying to reign me in. It’s been exhausting. Do I need this? NO. It’s so unnecessarily and chronically stressful. It does take a toll on your health. :(
Yes it's the demons (lower 4th dimensional entities) attached to them that needs your life energy (in a low vibrational way, hence the torment) tracking you. And this part is my opinion If your are in your own living space & paying your own bill.. I would say time to go no contact.
It feels like you are literally reading my mind. In my 50s I have finally cleared out or I am in limited contact with all of the toxic people in my life. This has included most of the people in my life since I had no energy for anyone else. I just recently realized that these people still take up residence in my head and there's no space for me in there. In fact, every point you made I have just uncovered in me. I always feel like I should be doing something other than what I am doing and I don't feel like anything is worth doing unless it's on behalf of another. It is hard to rest easy because I always have the feeling I'm going to get in trouble for anything I do or didn't do. And I finally figured out why my life feels so wrong, even though I am finally free from all the toxic people. I was conditioned to feel my life has no meaning just living for me. I stepped back from my only close friend, but have reconnected with a few long distance friends and family that have always shown me mutual respect and empathy.
The paradox one faces as the child of a narcissistic parent is the expected loyalty only goes one way. In the closed system of the family unit I was the one who could do no right despite being a normal child who exhibited normal behavior. The only thing that separated me from my four siblings was my independence and boldness to disagree with my borderline mom. My younger sister who later became a borderline herself would often betray the confidence of others, this included my older sister and mom and what they had said behind my back. My little sister liked being in their alliance but when she felt slighted by them she would coming running to me to seek sympathy. She would also use the same tactics when she was attacking me, referencing "everyone" or "we all" to give her argument more credibility. I remember my little sister revealed how mom was accusing me of being disloyal for buying a townhouse 20 minutes away in a neighboring suburb where my parents lived. According to my sister she said "mom said you moved away from us, you don't want to be near us". It was an unspoken expectation that I would live close to my parents within a five minute drive, much like my other siblings had. Less than 12 months earlier I had relocated back to my hometown after living out of state. This is where my parents, little sister and two younger brothers lived. My golden child older sister lived more than 12 hours away yet this was accepted because there was daily phone calls throughout the day between her and my mom. The narcissist will convert any action or decision you make and brand it as disloyal. The opposite is true if one is the favored one in the family such as the golden child.
So sorry to hear all that Tania, I can relate. Such a horrible system. Loyalty one way is no loyalty. Even God says "I am loyal to those that are loyal to me" (2 Samuel 22:26) That was when David was on the run from Saul, living in caves. Stay strong. I hope you find replacements, you know what I mean.
@@matilda4406 I'm sorry to hear you can relate. Thank you for the Bible verse. I grew up Christian too. That was another contradiction I saw in my family who professed to Christian. Great point about David living in caves, similar to sacrifices we make to escape our abusers.
@@taniab845 Oh Tania! I can see we are not alone. There must be many out there. We make many, many sacrifices. Saul was breathing envy. Take Care and God bless
I’m another child dealing with a bad Trust after my parents passed. Only children are vulnerable to this specific abuses. Prove you were involved in the parents lives as much as you can. Dates/times/messages/ need to be recorded. How long if a message was sent. 15:54
As a codependent, I have cared way to much what my family thought of me, when ironically they have been very abusive towards me. What do I owe to those who didn't even treat me right to begin with? It's this hupervigilant mindset where you're constantly thinking about how they'll view you. It's very unhealthy and leads to low self esteem.
The tragedy is the loss of safety, amongst other things. I've been living in abject isolation, therapy and support groups aside, since I stepped out of the emeshed family system, headed by a narc mother. The whole system of dysfunction, invalidation, shaming critism and contempt have taken up their own life WITHIN me. I'm fighting off the idea that I'm not a safe person so that I can indeed connect with safe people. My sense of self was decimated my covert an overt abuse. Since living alone in in an almost continuous state of flashbacks as I try to make sense of the catastrophic dysfunction and the impact on my mental health, functioning and relationships. Things have been " put" in me which don't belong to me. This I believe is the effect of the narcs shame shedding.
Yes!!!!! A couple years ago (at 62 years) I realized - IT WAS’NT ME. That was amazing! Then I started getting hints of other lies, I’m not hard and mean - actually I’m a highly sensitive person. I’m not a bad daughter who did not love her parents, I loved them, sought their love, etc. Who knows what other projections and out and out lies that I need to be delivered from. For all I know I’m probably a wonderful person -- and you too. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🏆
Interesting that Jay mentions "Big Brother". When I read Nineteen Eighty Four by George Orwell it felt like I was reading about my childhood. The requirement to worship Big Brother, to pretend life was great and happy when it so clearly wasn't and the constant threat of being "sent to room 101 and then vaporised" if the party was challenged are exactly how my narcissistic family system operated. I could add "Newspeak", the requirement to say things in the correct way, and the feeling of being constantly watched and monitored for compliance. My mother had all the traits of NPD and my father BPD but were never diagnosed or treated to my knowledge. No contact for 10 years, still trying to recover.
Exactly. I recently cut my family of origin off, because of my mother 's continuous verbal abuse to me and my husband. No kind of boundary could stop her. The last message I received from her, was death threats.
I’m slowly coming to the realization that you are talking about me. I thought for a long time that the problem was me. I should have had a happy childhood. I was never abused. Then I read a book on childhood emotional neglect and I thought that answered the questions of why I am the way I am (hyper vigilant, extremely self critical, low self esteem). But now I realize that my mom’s extremely critical way of speaking to me and treated me as a child that eventually led to my parents having me committed at age 16 and being diagnosed with clinical depression, was actually narcissistic abuse. That led me to try to get out of my childhood home as soon as possible and I ended up in a series of abusive relationships with men. I’m almost 52 and still extremely self critical and low self esteem. I feel like I don’t deserve any better and it just hurts all the time. I want to heal from this but it seems impossible.
My dad was a hideous monster to me. Still he gave me an allowance and bought me a motorcycle when I was sixteen years old. I honored him as per the bible phrase, "Honor thy Mother and thy father." (I did become a born again christian as a means of escaping my horrible self esteem problems.) He never could be more than an angry frustrated scientist and inventor. It was so odd. I hated him for my entire childhood. In short, he was a piece of shit that wore pants and a shirt. He's dead. I didn't go to his funeral. My brother, the golden child, dumped his ashes in the river. I tried to hug my Dad once. He actually shivered. He's dead. I am now free because of videos like this. I was not a bad person. Because of videos like this I have adapted that concept like a revolution of my soul. It really is super amazing. That is quite an amazing experience at 68 years old. Your videos are wonderful.
This is so true! I feel so scared to be an autonomous person and I'm terrified of upsetting people up to a point that I'd rather not send an answer than risking to write something that may upset. Also, I don't know who I am or what I want. My mother was such an extreme narcissist ( got punished for anything autonomous I would do) and then I married a covert narcissist for 20 years. I'm 40 now and I'm still living in constant fear and complete inability to understand who I am and what I want. I live in constant fear that if I'm autonomous I will get the most horrific punishment...Its physiological.
Just fo autinomus this, little ones, one by one... You will collect positive experiences in sense that nothing bad happens and your authenticity will slowly grow. I promise. 🍀🤗🔥
People just don't get it they're like oh they're your family and they love you you know but they don't get having a narcissistic family it's just like you know going back to your abuser to put up with these people crap
It is so sad to be exiled because you have a mind of your own. I've been devalued my whole life and have finally gone NC. Still some hoovers on Facebook.
You just described my mom's family. My mom was a narc but she died when we were younger. When we tried to move away from her family, they told us we owed them. That we should stay to help care for my grandparents. Since we ended up moving anyway, only 1 of her siblings would even talk to us. The dynamics of a toxic family are completely twisted and illogical. There should never be a 'debt' to be a part of a family.
This is unbelievable. It describes and explains my experiences a 100%. Having all kind of voices inside accept of your own. Feeling unworthy of even existing outside of the parent.../Family
You just spoke, near the end, about the heart of the dilemma. You're not allowed to be yourself. Near the end of your video you said when you come out of this you get into relationships where saying what you want and need actually enhances the relationship. That was not at all my experience before now. I very much had that dilemma that you mentioned, that you can't be yourself, State your needs and use your abilities in a relationship.
Thanks. I'm struggling to understand my sort of numb feelings, when things are going ok. It's like, I'm so used to being 'on edge', (double checking I'm 'safe', and justifying my behaviour), that safe normality feels either boring/numb/bland, or unreal, or weird. I'm either resenting having to do things, or feeling numb, or like my achievements are meaningless. I don't really understand what's going on. 🤔 But I'm hoping it's a useful part of this process, and will be a passing phase.
Here I'm going to put this in the context of the past year being afraid of catching Covid and ask if maybe that's contributing to your feeling strange right now? Although I definitely relate to being on edge, since I am the daughter of a very physically abusive NPD dad and never felt safe in the house during my childhood. These past couple of weeks since I've had my second vaccination have been a bit surreal when I look back at all the fear of interacting with people and being in strict lockdown for so long (in Europe). Today at the grocery store everybody still has to wear a mask but it's crazy to think how a year ago I was rushing through the store and buying up so much at once, like everybody else did. Not wanting to touch anything, money, door handles... Slow return to normalcy. The fear fades away. You could call it "numb" considering that the most mundane things like riding the train are no longer emotionally charged experiences for fear of catching the virus. All this to say, yes, in my opinion, it's a phase and it will pass. Good luck in your healing journey ;-)
Oh boy…this video hit a cord with me. How sad for us that we need to overcome this family system in order to have the life we deserve. Searing is a good word to describe it. Invidious is another word that helps describes the experience. I was finally exiled! And now I am finally grateful to be free from all the obligations of doing for them.
This video helped put context to feelings I’ve been aware of for most of my adult life, but couldn’t shake. A few jaw dropping moments here! I feel so lucky and deeply grateful that familial narcissistic abuse is now more broadly recognized, and that there are amazing and empowering resources like this to help us recover and live full, happy and wonderful lives. Thank you. 👼
Each time I do what is best for me, I got fiercely abused, called selfish in a hidious way til I dropped it and acted as they wanted me too. Sad I believed all that for over 30 years.
One time, my narcissistic sister told me that just because I took my mom to her hip surgery one time doesn't "erase" everything. Apparently, she thinks that I need to make up for all the times my mom asked her for a ride. She thinks that because my mom and I were in the same house, that I was supposed to do everything for my mom. One time, she tried confronting me and asking me for an explanation as to why my mom was calling someone to translate for her when I could do it. If someone doesn't show me basic human respect, I don't need to help them with anything if I don't feel like it. 👍
The cool thing about being the scapegoat is they try to play all these immature games like oh we're so great we're doing this thing and you're not invited and these are the excuses why or whatever but as a scapegoat you can see clearly that you want no part in that toxicity anyway
Thank you Jay. This one resonated with me so much it was overwhelming at times. I will be watching again and again to process slowly and thoughtfully. You have an amazing ability to combine clinical information with empathy. Grateful that you are helping clear the fog for so many.
Wow, you are able to put into words, feelings and beliefs that I have only vaguely sensed. Your description of internalizing the narcissistic parent is spot on. There was no room for meyself and my own feelings, that's for sure. Suffocating enmeshment for sure.
Told my father off over the summer. Really let him have it. I know I was justified in what I said. He deserved it. Now no one invited me over for Christmas this year, so I can tell the scapegoating is in full effect. I'm better off without him, even if he writes me out of the will(which I'm sure he will).
Right on point! Very helpful info, thank you. The guilt we feel as a scapegoat child of not constantly doing stuff for our parents and siblings is overwhelming. And once you start setting healthy boundaries, they are is such shock that you also have a life, family, hobbies, friends, etc. They get offended by you pulling away and saying no to them, trying to guilt you further.
Wow! Wow! Wow! So many light bulbs moments here! You are providing more understanding of my situation in a few videos than thirty years of therapy has! Thank you so much!
I chose to watch this to try and address the actual money debt my NM mother has had me paying for her being a parent. It’s helpful to see the other way this debt shows itself
I am working on myself trying to get away mentally and physically from my narcissistic mother. It is tough and probably the hardest thing I have ever had to do. Please pray for me.
I've gone NC with my family of origin (which will definitely bite me in the backside legally later, but whatever), and only after that I realised how much of my sense of self was influenced by them, and how much I lived by the notion that I owe them pretty much my whole life. Apparently, I didn't dare even think of things they would vehemently disapprove of. Like thinking of myself as a 'he' (still NB, just much more masc than I let myself realise since my mid teens) or trying to earn money in a 'non-intellectual' way. It's scary how much influence they had over me without me realising.
Interesting. One of my sisters and I have experienced this before from both parents. Seeking outside support was viewed as disloyal - and similarly, when I expressed my individuality and independence, I was told that I was "expressing a desire to no longer be part of the household," ergo absolving them of blame for emotionally neglecting me. Crazy. And it's from both parents and a sister. The information you share here is really accurate and helped me better understand my own family dynamic. Thank you, I really appreciate it!
Woweee! For the first time I know why I have been so unmotivated yo do anything! I kept wondering. A piece of the puzzle just fell into place. Wow! Thanks a million. Today I am doing 180- degrees turn. Thanks
Jay, thanks as always clear, thoughtful and sincere observations about the troubled families of origin that many of us have come out of. Recollection of the words “loyalty” and “ disloyal” used by parents devoid of loyalty to a child makes more “sense” in this context.
I grew up in a narcissistic family and I ended up with panic disorder and depression for many years. One feeling I've had all these years is fear of death. I've been obsessed feeling this for so many years and this stopped me from having my own life until I realized I wasn't really afraid of death but of my parents putting the blame on me for being dead, lol. They raised me up only to be the recipient of all their problems, so you can imagine I'm supposed to be alive and always besides them to fulfill my role in the family, if I die this will also be my fault.
I love you and your content. You do such an amazing job explaining these dynamics, it’s astonishing. Thank you so much. Not only do you help educate me during my recovery from being a scapegoat, but you make me feel hopeful. 🙏🖤
Because the remains of a hurricane were battering my area, I was not able to be with my mother when she died, but days later after the roads were passable I sat beside her casket with a basket. I put various items in her hands and around her which were reminders of the few good times we had shared: embroidery floss because she had taught me to embroider, one fabric rose to represent the roses she had sewn onto my prom dress, a small piece of green plaid fabric to represent the pretty dress she had made for me in nursery school, and many others. For about fifteen minutes I spoke to her with all my gratitude for these precious memories. Finally, I placed into her hands the last item in my basket - the only photograph I had of her hugging me. The next day, at her burial, I placed an enlargement of that same photo on her casket as it was being lowered into the ground. By means of that picture, I am with her in death, and by means of that enlargement, my love surrounds her.
Wow. Some of the things you mentioned were vague awarenesses of mine but this really brought it to the surface and shed a lot of light I needed. Thank you, another extremely valuable video.
I came back to stay with my elderly mother as her caregiver to pay her back for treating much more kindly up to the age of three and a half. My father came back at the end of World War II and then the abuse began. I became the scapegoat who caused "all the family problems." Nevertheless I am convinced I would literally not have survived except for her giving me a good first 3 to 4 years. However the other side to this view is all the years of narcissistic abuse. It does seem strange that I felt so committed to "paying her back" for those very early years. Are children actually obligated to pay parents back for any nurturing treatment? Is that what the parent-child relationship is all about?
I was the scapegoat too, my adopted dad was a pilot in WW2, but was co-dependent on his wife and his Mother had ruled the roost for years and she bullied her husband who was wounded in WW1. As a teenager it just didn't make sense to me, I was blamed for my Dad having an affair and he resented me not looking anything like him. Parents, natural or otherwise have a duty of care. I hate to say it but your Mother had a duty to protect you from narcissistic abuse.
It's easy for the parent to seem great during the very early ages of the child because there is no threat to the parent and they can control the child. When the child starts to become their own self and have likes and dislikes that is when the parent changes towards the child. Their ways were always there but just didn't need to use their tactics until the child started to grow up. The parent knows how to trip up the child and hinder development all in the name of control. When we're raised by a narcissistic parent the child doesn't see anything wrong because they are trying to be good little children to their idiot narcissistic parent and they don't know anything different. The child wants to see the good and sometimes we go our entire lives giving the benefit of the doubt and it's a complete waste of time.
Most people do need some caregiving as they get older, but in a healthy relationship, I believe there wouldn't be a felt sense of obligation on the part of the child. I heard an interesting comment about some eastern cultures, in which the elderly 'make themselves easy to carry.' Their attitude isn't, 'you owe me this,' but rather, 'I appreciate you being there to help me in my time of need, and I won't put any unnecessary demands on you.'
@@mmd9976 Likes and dislikes. Absolutely. We were not allowed to have any preferences at all, including what food we wanted to eat. My NPD dad once beat me black and blue (remember screaming so loud I couldn't believe the neighbors didn't hear me) at age 7 or 8 for refusing to eat my disgusting scrambled eggs. Enabler mom, brother and sis all sitting there at the breakfast table, "better her than me" attitude as I got yanked up by my arm and then pounded on in the corner! This was on a Saturday morning when mom actually made a sit-down breakfast. The beating I got, I might as well have burned the house down or killed grandma -- the severity would have been the same. Sis still remembers being forced to sit at the table for hours after dinner until she drank all of her milk. Well, the best I can say is I moved to Paris 20 years ago to take a job and wow, they tried to guilt the sh*t out of me during Covid but I didn't flinch.
You went back out of kindness. Children to pay parents back for nurturing them?.. haha I am sure there are thousands of parents who produce kids precisely as an investment, but this is not proper nor loving.
The most betrayal comes from the enabling parent in my case it’s my dad who never ever been in my side since I was a kid , neglected me completely just to satisfy his narcissistic wife ( mother supposed to be) he is the spear head for her that pokes me all my life and it goes deeper every time she gets more angry that she did t realize that I’m not her puppet that can control or the one to project all her failures on me , parents loves their kids unconditionally and treats them equally.
Jay, all of your videos hit on my situation with my Dad exactly. Before I went no contact, if I politely declined an invitation I was always told by him that I was disappointing my whole family. It really made me feel excluded. I am no contact now and am closer with other family members now which just shows how manipulative this type of behavior is. Thank you for this validation!
Hey, I really like your videos a lot. Could you do a video explaining why narcissists gaslight? I really enjoy the way you describe narcissistic abuse in an analytical way.
Never cheering but always dramatic crying without explanation ( but never talk emotions)making me feel probly missing that when feeling on track in my own life. All the time setting me back by making me a failure by default would I have addressed this I would get attacked by the others. I got it after a year moving out. How can I grow when there is zero trust.
Im working through being scapegoated by peers and family, Im reading self help books and Dr Jay your videos are most helpful. Let the healing process begin. 🎉
The algorithm is working - came across via Tim Fletcher and Patrick Tehan - this is great insight as I’ve been struggling with parts and a slightly woolly self who isn’t sure who he is or what he really wants (has to!) achieve
So true. I always had a feeling that I was the one to care for my family ( even when it was impossible) and also seemed like I was designated to look after my parents in their old age. “Don’t move too far away from them” like. Always in the back of my mind. Wierd. Makes sense now. Thank you Dr Jay
Interesting that you say,"deprogramming", Jay, because atm I'm continuing my learning about mind control, interrogation techniques and so on from ex-military and other experts. In 2008/09 I was counselled by a psychologist for the first time (couldn't worm out of it!) & he stated unequivocally that experiences I had were brain washing, torture type stuff - I figured he knew because he worked for the Australian Army in the war in Iraq. Frankly, astonishing, not sure I really believed him. But in the last 18 months or so, since learning about narcissism's dynamics and characteristics I recognise many things thus my interest in learning about brain washing etc, and there it is, clear as day. Still astonishing, and I believe the psychologist now. I'm curious how the military deprogrammes people as perhaps they have techniques that might help along with the insights and other helpful things. So far it's intriguing stuff - will see how it goes.
Pls make a video on ‘safe people’ definition. That would be so helpful! Right now, I have escape routes… just in case I thought someone was safe, turns out not to be. Ty!
My mom forces unwanted gifts if I dont take them she gets mad and then talks horrible about me complaining I'm ungrateful and cruel to her I stopped taking her gifts two years ago and she tells everyone I refuse to embrace her after all she has done for me she gets other family members involved trying to expose me and getting others in stuff they know nothing about I havent seen my mom step dad and most of my family in over 2 years and they all act clueless saying I'm weird for separating myself there is nothing weird to me about protecting my energy mental health and over all wellbeing I got really tired of people telling me that's just how my mom is and I only get one mom or it wasnt that bad I'm tired of them minimizing my pain and traumas my mom mentally emotionally and spiritually traumatized me literally my entire life I'm not even a person in my moms eyes she calls me the enemy and she doesn't see me as someone who has rights I'm a thing to my mom they dont get it
Thank you for verbalizing something I have been trying to understand and also explain to therapists for years, but did not know how. I can't afford therapy right now, so your help and clarity from these free videos is life-saving. I am amazed that the therapists I went to, did not seem to know anything about this. I have had epiphanies from watching your videos, that I have not found in other areas. Thank you beyond words Dr. Reid.
The entitlement of narcissists is SO DEEP that you can hear it in their tone of voice. They ALWAYS speak in a tone in a sense that you OWE them.
Thank you!!! Parenting should be a pleasure not the formation of a dictatorship.
Narcissists are not Parents, they are the wounded children turned into Brats forever! They have nothing to do with the parenting infact in their case everything's about projection. Pathological Projection!
.
And sadly! Sometimes their children play role of their Parents. 💔
True
Realistically, it's not all sunshine and rainbows, (or always a pleasure), but definitely should not be a dictatorship.
I just get so sad when I hear these videos.
@@godisonelove3557 oh my god you're so right.
I think people often don’t realise how traumatising it really is, to continually be on the receiving end of the steady stream of devaluation
from a narcissistic family. it’s incredibly painful to be ostracised, not because you’ve caused any real harm or done anything truly offensive, but merely because looking after yourself and your own children instead of orbiting the narcissistic parent and affirming them slavishly (which honestly, still would not appease them) somehow makes you a despicable creature who’s “not worth the air you breathe”
This! Just by existing.
This darn 'orbiting" really hits the nail on the head!
And that's why you can't be consumed by how others see you, or what they feel about the choices that you make. You have to live your life without worrying about other people. You have to learn to do what is best for you and yours. Being around a narcissist will drain and kill who you are and you in every way possible.
I so agree with you. Better not be around them at all.
@@ladennayoung2939 Caring what others think about you is inaccurately assuming their opinion is credible. Ask yourself, is there opinion credible? Ninety-eight percent of the time, the answer is a resounding, "Hell, No!"
Narcissists will always try to make you feel obligated to them. That's how they trap you. Just ignore them.
This is so deep. I've waited my whole life for this. I'm 69 and still recovering from an almost unbelievable childhood. Appreciate the work and your insight 🙏
I'm WITH YA! 57 HERE 💯😭
And me! 68 years of it...
I was 46 when I finally walked away from the envy, backbiting, gossip, rage, codependence, flying monkeys and lunacy. I'm thankful there were non-family adults from whom we kids received validating love. Pity those children who only have their malignant parents as role models.
i am 22. my left jaw cracked inwards. now I have a tinnitus in the left ear. to survive i need to be a workaholic. but my health issues are shit. I was in a big company. i want to do there a apprenticeship as electrican. There was an guy, otto was his name. He asked me:" How is your mother" and I said:" I hate she" Then he was smiling. He had a mother like me. Then he said to me that he was one day go home after work and drove with his motorcycle and then there was a car that hit him. His back rip was broken. Then he said : " I sit in the chair so that my rip goes right in the right place, I dont commit suicide" he said to me I should not commit suicide?? But now with my broken left jaw and chronic fatique and tinnitus I want to. The company fired me because I was so broken. I reached my high school last year and then I had a trauma, because I realisen I played for 21 years a role that I am not. I was for 4 months at home and then I started this apprenticeship as electrican. I have needed a break from everything. And to survive, Now I need to be a workaholic. I also found that I am an MBTI INFJ. I am highly sensetive. I was now thinkinng to study computer Science dual degree. But my tinnitus and my ear pressure and my jaw is so annoying. I was born as an Bump. Then I had teacher which fooled me when they saw I had mood swings that I should I go to the crafts. Bastard teacher
I am bipolar I now but I dont know why? I also now that the astrology is true
I remember being 14 yrs old and feeling so lonely and broken and coming to the realization that the crazy raging abusive violence by my parents was never going to change . Being the family scapegoat was pretty much unbearable - but I survived their wicked behaviour with lifelong depression and avoidance issues in tow . Even after marrying and moving out these people thought my world was so small that it still revolved around them . They joined a pyramid scheme type home sales business popular at the time and harangued me unmercifully to sign on despite my trying to keep a distance from them . It made little sense to me - their most hated kid - to be further tied to them so they were free to keep the abuse going . All my siblings told me none of them were expected to sell these products . Their scheme to keep me indebted to them and taking a cut from any potential sale I made was certainly part of the end game . Only NO CONTACT gave me any peace from them . I wonder how many kids are out there right now trying to live through what we went through .
It is devastating to think of all the children who will never be helped or shown the light... But I know there are many that can be reached, can be saved.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I'm also the scapegoat/invisible child. My family always put me down and never celebrate my acomplishments. Even though I left home ten Years Ago I was Still under their trap. I moved back my hometown even though I always hated It and felt dislocated there. As soon as I got there i had a fight with my abusive brother and left her house to a hotel while me and my partner waited for our house stuff. This was enough for her to Freak out with me. Bottom line, I did a cut off and in the midst of that my husband went to surgery and when i finally told her she Said i could count on her, since It wasnt on her working hour. It hurt so bad. I sucked It UP, supported my partner and got the hell out of there for good.
Loads of kids. My guess would be 50%, to one degree or another and likely more. My estimate is based upon the number of hostile, preditory or otherwise barely functional people I run across. Where it is entirely obvious, to me at least.
I'm sorry you had to endure that. You are not alone!
My mother thought I owed her for birthing me or bringing me to Europe as a child. I told my narc mother to her face, I owed her Nothing!. She did not like that one bit because she couldn't control me anymore as an adult living my life and I've got my own family. It's crazy how this people think. You owe them nothing. Just carry on living your life like they don't exist. My mothers love was conditional and I grew up to hate her for that
I think this is why I find it so hard to unwind. If I'm doing nothing, I owe it to someone to be doing something. Even though I'm the only person I owe anything to. I have to consciously remind myself that it's okay to be doing nothing if that's my choice, and that I don't owe it to anyone to be doing something productive. None is going to reprimand me or criticise me for doing nothing. In fact, no one is going to know. Shaking the invisible, critical, narc parent in my head is a slow process
It's not even the thought of 'you should be doing something'. It's about not being able to relax anymore because there was always - always - always the threat of being scrutinized. When your existence is only tolerated, there is no way you can relax in being (with) yourself.
Its true. Healthy others never drum you with the message, "You can't be happy because I'm not happy"
100% my family literally became upset when I was independently happy.
🤯
@@maribelsantana157 Yeah toxic people are like that.
YEP. I upset a very happy life I built to be nearer to my mother, to "help her" with her issues and give her more access to her grandchild (she'd laid on the sob-stories/guilt every time I called). MAJOR FAIL... She has never been happy with anything I've done for her--even when I moved just across town from her she claimed it was too far (and I'd moved from the UK back to the US for her!!). :/
@@maribelsantana157 If you angered them, then they are your servants now. Keep going no contact with them and stay free from their toxicity. You are doing a great job.
Perfect word "enmeshed" to describe the too-close family. These people don't seem to be capable of true intimacy.
What my mother wanted was not attention but tension - a CONSTANT awareness of her presence and authority and victim hood as well.
Jay, you nailed it on the one-sided loyalty and the debt. It's just amazing how 'normal' all that stuff feels until you begin stepping away from it!
The first summer break from college confirmed my long-term suspicion that Mom wasn't well. Since birth I had submitted to the physical and mental abuse, the envy, gaslighting and disregard, the favoritism she showed to older sister and younger brother.
After I had my own children and recalled my parents' reactions to normal situations, I confronted Dad about Mom's behavior. Though he remained her enabler, he shared enough "secrets" for me to put all the puzzling pieces together, and I realized our mother wished I had never been born.
I still gave her the benefit of a doubt another four decades, but finally realized that -- for the sake of myself and my own family -- I had to walk away and leave it up to her to maintain the relationship. She was invited countless times to call, visit, be part of our family, and she refused. Perhaps she saved my children a lot of grief by screaming "IT'S MY TIME!!" and staying out of our lives.
I definately felt this debt scenario and worked so hard to please my toxic parents. It was all a huge waste of my effort. It was only after I called them out on some bad behavior, and they got hostile and dosed me at 2 family gatherings, putting me in the hospital, forcing me to go No Contact 10 yrs ago, that the cycle stopped. If that had not happened, I'd still be doing it to this day I'm sure. Great message as usual Jay, you may literally save someone's life with this insight.
They poisoned you?
My narcissistic dad always justified his abuse of me by saying he was “entitled” because he gave me the “gift” of life 🙄 I remember as a teenager I got fed up and yelled, “I don’t care if you gave me the ‘gift’ of life… I want a refund!” He also acted like he was so amazing because he fed me and put a roof over my head growing up and finally I told him, “look, an orphanage would’ve done that. Jail would’ve even done that. I didn’t ask to be born, so you don’t get to ask for gratitude by giving someone a gift they didn’t ask for or didn’t want.”
American hustle culture says you can't relax, either, so it's reinforces, moreso if you're a man. I spend my own money and have a fun life and narcs hate me for it.
"look, an orphanage would’ve done that. Jail would’ve even done that. I didn’t ask to be born, "
awesome comeback
@@ericlarousse1149 Other men hates it when you have it easy. Yet you get shunned for it.
@@yanx007lol thank you 😅
You are so right ! Life is a gift not a loan we would have to repay...
My father would constantly bang on about my "duty". What about his ****ing duty?!! The hypocrisy was breathtaking.
When I was a little girl I got emotionally “dog piled” on about “loyalty” I didn’t know what the hell he (my dad) was talking about. Only that it was I overwhelming, agonizing and confusing.
Brilliant demonstration. So perfectly right. The parent is internalized. Confusion about protecting oneself or protecting the narcissistic parent or both and nothing feels right anyway.
yes ): i need so much help putting an end to this but it feels hopeless at times
My parents have done a lot to cripple me, and have made it impossible for me to become independent from them as an adult. As a result of my being dependent on them, they have made the assumption that I owe them because they've done so much for me.
The parent indeed _feels_ you owe them even after you are an adult. _"Your existence is for my personal use"_ , says the narc and it's ugly if you say (as you SHOULD): "No."
It's like they think they are our boss and we are an employee.
I have so much guilt because I feel I'm an ingrate. She never hugged me, said one positive thing to me, spent time with me, but she gave me clothes, food and shelter. Gave me a place to stay in hard times. I was an obligation she fulfilled without joy of any kind. I feel I owe her because I ruined her life.
WOW!!..I could've written this!
Learning about (CEN)... Childhood Emotional Neglect helped me tremendously!
It's definitely not your fault!
Stay strong and safe! 🙏
My NMom would always say if "it weren't for her, I'd be dead in a ditch". Looking back it's so sad that was another crazy thing I was supposed to be grateful for as a little kid.
So often now I think wtaf. Who acts like this?
Jay I am so thankful for you teaching me. It's like the fog rolls away and I can finally see things with some clarity. I keep coming back to your videos when I need help to cope. You are a life line to me Jay thank you.
Ive come to know God as a good Father. He is the Father to the fatherless. It's taken me so long to build a relationship with Him out of false perceptions I had because of my parents but im finally receiving His love and its healing me. I hope that for all of you too. You deserve it.
@@southernbawselady7092 Just now saw your reply. Thank you for it. I have a hard time because my experience of my mom was one of her indifference to me. She wasn't interested in me. She never hit me or said I owed her anything or said she wished I hadn't been born. I think that is one I feel so guilty. I mistook her providing food and shelter as love. You seem to have had the same experience. Is that true? Do you think that is why we can't separate from her?
@@nancybartley4610
Yes, it was very hard to heal and let go until I read this bible scripture...
Matthew 10:36... "Your worst enemies will be members of your own family"
So sad, but true!
Stay strong and blessed! 🙏
@@southernbawselady7092 So you feel totally cool now? Much love.
It has been interesting to watch the relationships between all 4 of my siblings deteriorate since both parents passed away 9 years ago. It’s as if all of the family relationships centered around the narcissistic parent and now that he’s gone there’s nothing to hold the other relationships together.
Same here. Before my mother died I tried to stop the triangulation. There was no response. There was nothing there but role playing and pretending. We were a Sucralose Family... superficially sweet, but leaves nothing but a bad after-taste.
I’ve noticed the same thing since my mother passed away 2 years ago. It’s as if dissolution of the family after her death is the ultimate confirmation that the family and it’s members and their relationships only existed to satisfy her needs and that all of the family’s energy was directed to that goal.
My mon felt I was in debt with her even for having nursed me as a new born
when I told my mother I had passed the law school entrance test she got mad and not showed any happiness for me
Celebrate you and congratulations on your achievement!
That is awful. i don't know you but I am happy for you. Wonderful accomplishment. You have really achieved something to be proud of. Shame on your mom. Same thing happened to me when I graduated university. Not a smile or a hug. Nothing. Same when I got married.
Well, I'm not your mother and can only assume that you love your mother and wish she loves you as you need but she can't/won't, so I just want to say, "Good on you for passing! I am very happy for you :). All the very best to you as you chase your dreams, no matter what they are but if law is it then onwards & upwards kiddo! I'm proud of you even though we've never met - still proud of you. High five". xo
Ditto
Congratulations on your acceptance to law school!!! That's awesome!! What an accomplishment 👏 Be very proud and recognize your hard work to get there.
I've learned not to share accomplishments with NM because she can't or won't celebrate and her lack of approval or rejection can steal away the joy of what I earned. While I wish I learned this lesson much earlier, stopped looking for her approval much sooner, it took me many years and much heartache but now I don't put her in that power role. I accept that she would not be happy for me because that's the reality. It freed me up to celebrate my own success and over time share my successes with supportive people who have capacity to celebrate achievements with me. Maybe this could help you sooner?
Wishing you all the best with law school and the many great accomplishments ahead in your bright future. Keep chasing down your dreams!
Over the years I’ve had a hard time keeping people permanently blocked, but this has come at a cost. I swear they can sense whenever I am about to embark on something healthy and expansive. Has anyone else noticed this? Suddenly I’ll get texts or calls while I’m meeting a deadline, starting a new job, or am about to leave for a vacation. Even before an appointment to see a healer- a weird demand was suddenly issued. It’s almost like they can sense a threat and were actively trying to reign me in. It’s been exhausting. Do I need this? NO. It’s so unnecessarily and chronically stressful. It does take a toll on your health. :(
Yes it's the demons (lower 4th dimensional entities) attached to them that needs your life energy (in a low vibrational way, hence the torment) tracking you.
And this part is my opinion If your are in your own living space & paying your own bill..
I would say time to go no contact.
It feels like you are literally reading my mind. In my 50s I have finally cleared out or I am in limited contact with all of the toxic people in my life. This has included most of the people in my life since I had no energy for anyone else.
I just recently realized that these people still take up residence in my head and there's no space for me in there. In fact, every point you made I have just uncovered in me. I always feel like I should be doing something other than what I am doing and I don't feel like anything is worth doing unless it's on behalf of another. It is hard to rest easy because I always have the feeling I'm going to get in trouble for anything I do or didn't do. And I finally figured out why my life feels so wrong, even though I am finally free from all the toxic people. I was conditioned to feel my life has no meaning just living for me.
I stepped back from my only close friend, but have reconnected with a few long distance friends and family that have always shown me mutual respect and empathy.
The paradox one faces as the child of a narcissistic parent is the expected loyalty only goes one way. In the closed system of the family unit I was the one who could do no right despite being a normal child who exhibited normal behavior. The only thing that separated me from my four siblings was my independence and boldness to disagree with my borderline mom. My younger sister who later became a borderline herself would often betray the confidence of others, this included my older sister and mom and what they had said behind my back. My little sister liked being in their alliance but when she felt slighted by them she would coming running to me to seek sympathy. She would also use the same tactics when she was attacking me, referencing "everyone" or "we all" to give her argument more credibility. I remember my little sister revealed how mom was accusing me of being disloyal for buying a townhouse 20 minutes away in a neighboring suburb where my parents lived. According to my sister she said "mom said you moved away from us, you don't want to be near us". It was an unspoken expectation that I would live close to my parents within a five minute drive, much like my other siblings had. Less than 12 months earlier I had relocated back to my hometown after living out of state. This is where my parents, little sister and two younger brothers lived. My golden child older sister lived more than 12 hours away yet this was accepted because there was daily phone calls throughout the day between her and my mom. The narcissist will convert any action or decision you make and brand it as disloyal. The opposite is true if one is the favored one in the family such as the golden child.
So sorry to hear all that Tania, I can relate. Such a horrible system. Loyalty one way is no loyalty. Even God says "I am loyal to those that are loyal to me" (2 Samuel 22:26) That was when David was on the run from Saul, living in caves. Stay strong. I hope you find replacements, you know what I mean.
@@matilda4406 I'm sorry to hear you can relate. Thank you for the Bible verse. I grew up Christian too. That was another contradiction I saw in my family who professed to Christian. Great point about David living in caves, similar to sacrifices we make to escape our abusers.
@@taniab845 Oh Tania! I can see we are not alone. There must be many out there. We make many, many sacrifices. Saul was breathing envy. Take Care and God bless
I’m another child dealing with a bad Trust after my parents passed. Only children are vulnerable to this specific abuses. Prove you were involved in the parents lives as much as you can. Dates/times/messages/ need to be recorded. How long if a message was sent. 15:54
Thank you. I am in the process of grieving at the moment as I am now going no contact with the whole family. These videos really help. Thank you
🤗
Hang in there @braveheart7783 its all going work out,prayers for your peace, keep looking up!😊
As a codependent, I have cared way to much what my family thought of me, when ironically they have been very abusive towards me. What do I owe to those who didn't even treat me right to begin with? It's this hupervigilant mindset where you're constantly thinking about how they'll view you. It's very unhealthy and leads to low self esteem.
me too!!! i hate it so much.
This is so accurate! Finally beginning to think in my voice instead of theirs. Thank you for your reassuring videos!
That sounds sooo sooo soo soo coool and it makes every sense in the world. "think in my voice". It did help me now pretty much!! THX!!
The tragedy is the loss of safety, amongst other things. I've been living in abject isolation, therapy and support groups aside, since I stepped out of the emeshed family system, headed by a narc mother. The whole system of dysfunction, invalidation, shaming critism and contempt have taken up their own life WITHIN me. I'm fighting off the idea that I'm not a safe person so that I can indeed connect with safe people. My sense of self was decimated my covert an overt abuse. Since living alone in in an almost continuous state of flashbacks as I try to make sense of the catastrophic dysfunction and the impact on my mental health, functioning and relationships. Things have been " put" in me which don't belong to me. This I believe is the effect of the narcs shame shedding.
Yes!!!!! A couple years ago (at 62 years) I realized - IT WAS’NT ME. That was amazing! Then I started getting hints of other lies, I’m not hard and mean - actually I’m a highly sensitive person. I’m not a bad daughter who did not love her parents, I loved them, sought their love, etc. Who knows what other projections and out and out lies that I need to be delivered from. For all I know I’m probably a wonderful person -- and you too. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🏆
"Things have been " put" in me which don't belong to me. This I believe is the effect of the narcs shame shedding."
Well said!
Interesting that Jay mentions "Big Brother". When I read Nineteen Eighty Four by George Orwell it felt like I was reading about my childhood. The requirement to worship Big Brother, to pretend life was great and happy when it so clearly wasn't and the constant threat of being "sent to room 101 and then vaporised" if the party was challenged are exactly how my narcissistic family system operated. I could add "Newspeak", the requirement to say things in the correct way, and the feeling of being constantly watched and monitored for compliance. My mother had all the traits of NPD and my father BPD but were never diagnosed or treated to my knowledge. No contact for 10 years, still trying to recover.
2+2=5 say it LOL!
Exactly. I recently cut my family of origin off, because of my mother 's continuous verbal abuse to me and my husband. No kind of boundary could stop her. The last message I received from her, was death threats.
Good comparison. This would be a good thesis paper--the inner workings of a narcissistic family explained in Orwell writings.
I’m slowly coming to the realization that you are talking about me. I thought for a long time that the problem was me. I should have had a happy childhood. I was never abused. Then I read a book on childhood emotional neglect and I thought that answered the questions of why I am the way I am (hyper vigilant, extremely self critical, low self esteem). But now I realize that my mom’s extremely critical way of speaking to me and treated me as a child that eventually led to my parents having me committed at age 16 and being diagnosed with clinical depression, was actually narcissistic abuse. That led me to try to get out of my childhood home as soon as possible and I ended up in a series of abusive relationships with men. I’m almost 52 and still extremely self critical and low self esteem. I feel like I don’t deserve any better and it just hurts all the time. I want to heal from this but it seems impossible.
My dad was a hideous monster to me. Still he gave me an allowance and bought me a motorcycle when I was sixteen years old. I honored him as per the bible phrase, "Honor thy Mother and thy father." (I did become a born again christian as a means of escaping my horrible self esteem problems.) He never could be more than an angry frustrated scientist and inventor. It was so odd. I hated him for my entire childhood. In short, he was a piece of shit that wore pants and a shirt. He's dead. I didn't go to his funeral. My brother, the golden child, dumped his ashes in the river. I tried to hug my Dad once. He actually shivered. He's dead. I am now free because of videos like this. I was not a bad person. Because of videos like this I have adapted that concept like a revolution of my soul. It really is super amazing. That is quite an amazing experience at 68 years old. Your videos are wonderful.
The story of my life. I thank God that I started living my own life. Thanks for making this video. I have moved out and I am busy healing.
I will have to listen to this talk again and again until I fully understand what you are saying. You are changimg my life. God bless.
This is so true! I feel so scared to be an autonomous person and I'm terrified of upsetting people up to a point that I'd rather not send an answer than risking to write something that may upset. Also, I don't know who I am or what I want. My mother was such an extreme narcissist ( got punished for anything autonomous I would do) and then I married a covert narcissist for 20 years. I'm 40 now and I'm still living in constant fear and complete inability to understand who I am and what I want. I live in constant fear that if I'm autonomous I will get the most horrific punishment...Its physiological.
Just fo autinomus this, little ones, one by one... You will collect positive experiences in sense that nothing bad happens and your authenticity will slowly grow. I promise. 🍀🤗🔥
People just don't get it they're like oh they're your family and they love you you know but they don't get having a narcissistic family it's just like you know going back to your abuser to put up with these people crap
Just responding to the title.
I don't own my NM anything.
I forgave her years and years ago.
NO CONTACT.
FOREVER AMEN
It is so sad to be exiled because you have a mind of your own. I've been devalued my whole life and have finally gone NC. Still some hoovers on Facebook.
You just described my mom's family. My mom was a narc but she died when we were younger. When we tried to move away from her family, they told us we owed them. That we should stay to help care for my grandparents. Since we ended up moving anyway, only 1 of her siblings would even talk to us. The dynamics of a toxic family are completely twisted and illogical. There should never be a 'debt' to be a part of a family.
This is unbelievable. It describes and explains my experiences a 100%. Having all kind of voices inside accept of your own. Feeling unworthy of even existing outside of the parent.../Family
You just spoke, near the end, about the heart of the dilemma. You're not allowed to be yourself. Near the end of your video you said when you come out of this you get into relationships where saying what you want and need actually enhances the relationship. That was not at all my experience before now. I very much had that dilemma that you mentioned, that you can't be yourself, State your needs and use your abilities in a relationship.
Thank you. Life would be bleak without the light people like you help to shed on this topic
Thanks. I'm struggling to understand my sort of numb feelings, when things are going ok. It's like, I'm so used to being 'on edge', (double checking I'm 'safe', and justifying my behaviour), that safe normality feels either boring/numb/bland, or unreal, or weird.
I'm either resenting having to do things, or feeling numb, or like my achievements are meaningless.
I don't really understand what's going on. 🤔
But I'm hoping it's a useful part of this process, and will be a passing phase.
Here I'm going to put this in the context of the past year being afraid of catching Covid and ask if maybe that's contributing to your feeling strange right now? Although I definitely relate to being on edge, since I am the daughter of a very physically abusive NPD dad and never felt safe in the house during my childhood. These past couple of weeks since I've had my second vaccination have been a bit surreal when I look back at all the fear of interacting with people and being in strict lockdown for so long (in Europe). Today at the grocery store everybody still has to wear a mask but it's crazy to think how a year ago I was rushing through the store and buying up so much at once, like everybody else did. Not wanting to touch anything, money, door handles... Slow return to normalcy. The fear fades away. You could call it "numb" considering that the most mundane things like riding the train are no longer emotionally charged experiences for fear of catching the virus. All this to say, yes, in my opinion, it's a phase and it will pass. Good luck in your healing journey ;-)
Keep at it Cathy. This is the start of uncovering the real and authentic you. You will discover so much truth and huge growth and awareness.
Oh boy…this video hit a cord with me. How sad for us that we need to overcome this family system in order to have the life we deserve.
Searing is a good word to describe it. Invidious is another word that helps describes the experience.
I was finally exiled! And now I am finally grateful to be free from all the obligations of doing for them.
This video helped put context to feelings I’ve been aware of for most of my adult life, but couldn’t shake. A few jaw dropping moments here! I feel so lucky and deeply grateful that familial narcissistic abuse is now more broadly recognized, and that there are amazing and empowering resources like this to help us recover and live full, happy and wonderful lives. Thank you. 👼
Each time I do what is best for me, I got fiercely abused, called selfish in a hidious way til I dropped it and acted as they wanted me too. Sad I believed all that for over 30 years.
One time, my narcissistic sister told me that just because I took my mom to her hip surgery one time doesn't "erase" everything. Apparently, she thinks that I need to make up for all the times my mom asked her for a ride. She thinks that because my mom and I were in the same house, that I was supposed to do everything for my mom. One time, she tried confronting me and asking me for an explanation as to why my mom was calling someone to translate for her when I could do it. If someone doesn't show me basic human respect, I don't need to help them with anything if I don't feel like it. 👍
The cool thing about being the scapegoat is they try to play all these immature games like oh we're so great we're doing this thing and you're not invited and these are the excuses why or whatever but as a scapegoat you can see clearly that you want no part in that toxicity anyway
Thank you Jay. This one resonated with me so much it was overwhelming at times. I will be watching again and again to process slowly and thoughtfully. You have an amazing ability to combine clinical information with empathy. Grateful that you are helping clear the fog for so many.
To me too, Sara.
There was so much resonance.
Me too, l am watching this video again and again. Grateful tto, l am. Thanx for sharing
I wish I had seen this 20 years ago.
Wow, you are able to put into words, feelings and beliefs that I have only vaguely sensed. Your description of internalizing the narcissistic parent is spot on. There was no room for meyself and my own feelings, that's for sure. Suffocating enmeshment for sure.
Thank you. I'm 65 and now I understand. Your insights have ment the world to me.
I don’t owe them. I left.
Told my father off over the summer. Really let him have it. I know I was justified in what I said. He deserved it. Now no one invited me over for Christmas this year, so I can tell the scapegoating is in full effect. I'm better off without him, even if he writes me out of the will(which I'm sure he will).
doing everything in-alignment with the narcissistic person
Right on point! Very helpful info, thank you. The guilt we feel as a scapegoat child of not constantly doing stuff for our parents and siblings is overwhelming. And once you start setting healthy boundaries, they are is such shock that you also have a life, family, hobbies, friends, etc. They get offended by you pulling away and saying no to them, trying to guilt you further.
Love your channel and how you approach topics.
Wow! Wow! Wow! So many light bulbs moments here! You are providing more understanding of my situation in a few videos than thirty years of therapy has! Thank you so much!
I chose to watch this to try and address the actual money debt my NM mother has had me paying for her being a parent. It’s helpful to see the other way this debt shows itself
I am working on myself trying to get away mentally and physically from my narcissistic mother. It is tough and probably the hardest thing I have ever had to do. Please pray for me.
It's actually like Jay knew my family personally...
You have such a complete understanding, its awesome!
I've gone NC with my family of origin (which will definitely bite me in the backside legally later, but whatever), and only after that I realised how much of my sense of self was influenced by them, and how much I lived by the notion that I owe them pretty much my whole life. Apparently, I didn't dare even think of things they would vehemently disapprove of. Like thinking of myself as a 'he' (still NB, just much more masc than I let myself realise since my mid teens) or trying to earn money in a 'non-intellectual' way. It's scary how much influence they had over me without me realising.
Hello from Ireland 😊 thankyou so much for all your videos I have found them incredibly useful and your approach feels very genuine ☀️🍀
Interesting. One of my sisters and I have experienced this before from both parents. Seeking outside support was viewed as disloyal - and similarly, when I expressed my individuality and independence, I was told that I was "expressing a desire to no longer be part of the household," ergo absolving them of blame for emotionally neglecting me. Crazy. And it's from both parents and a sister.
The information you share here is really accurate and helped me better understand my own family dynamic. Thank you, I really appreciate it!
Woweee! For the first time I know why I have been so unmotivated yo do anything! I kept wondering. A piece of the puzzle just fell into place. Wow! Thanks a million. Today I am doing 180- degrees turn. Thanks
Jay, thanks as always clear, thoughtful and sincere observations about the troubled families of origin that many of us have come out of. Recollection of the words “loyalty” and “ disloyal” used by parents devoid of loyalty to a child makes more “sense” in this context.
When I watch videos I imagine every little comment my parents would make if they saw it. It’s like I know the inside of their minds. I’m too enmeshed.
Ive let that go years ago. Mom would always tell me it was "owed" to her
I grew up in a narcissistic family and I ended up with panic disorder and depression for many years. One feeling I've had all these years is fear of death. I've been obsessed feeling this for so many years and this stopped me from having my own life until I realized I wasn't really afraid of death but of my parents putting the blame on me for being dead, lol. They raised me up only to be the recipient of all their problems, so you can imagine I'm supposed to be alive and always besides them to fulfill my role in the family, if I die this will also be my fault.
The lights grow dim is a perfect analogy..
Exile is preferable to being an emotional punching bag.
I love you and your content. You do such an amazing job explaining these dynamics, it’s astonishing. Thank you so much. Not only do you help educate me during my recovery from being a scapegoat, but you make me feel hopeful. 🙏🖤
Because the remains of a hurricane were battering my area, I was not able to be with my mother when she died, but days later after the roads were passable I sat beside her casket with a basket. I put various items in her hands and around her which were reminders of the few good times we had shared: embroidery floss because she had taught me to embroider, one fabric rose to represent the roses she had sewn onto my prom dress, a small piece of green plaid fabric to represent the pretty dress she had made for me in nursery school, and many others. For about fifteen minutes I spoke to her with all my gratitude for these precious memories. Finally, I placed into her hands the last item in my basket - the only photograph I had of her hugging me. The next day, at her burial, I placed an enlargement of that same photo on her casket as it was being lowered into the ground. By means of that picture, I am with her in death, and by means of that enlargement, my love surrounds her.
Thank you for putting words to experiences I didn't yet have words for. 🙏🏻
Wow. Some of the things you mentioned were vague awarenesses of mine but this really brought it to the surface and shed a lot of light I needed. Thank you, another extremely valuable video.
This is exactly how I feel too. Things that have haunted me are being spoken about clearly, it’s validating❤️
@@suzannebunbury2961 yes!:)
I came back to stay with my elderly mother as her caregiver to pay her back for treating much more kindly up to the age of three and a half. My father came back at the end of World War II and then the abuse began. I became the scapegoat who caused "all the family problems." Nevertheless I am convinced I would literally not have survived except for her giving me a good first 3 to 4 years. However the other side to this view is all the years of narcissistic abuse. It does seem strange that I felt so committed to "paying her back" for those very early years. Are children actually obligated to pay parents back for any nurturing treatment? Is that what the parent-child relationship is all about?
I was the scapegoat too, my adopted dad was a pilot in WW2, but was co-dependent on his wife and his Mother had ruled the roost for years and she bullied her husband who was wounded in WW1. As a teenager it just didn't make sense to me, I was blamed for my Dad having an affair and he resented me not looking anything like him. Parents, natural or otherwise have a duty of care. I hate to say it but your Mother had a duty to protect you from narcissistic abuse.
It's easy for the parent to seem great during the very early ages of the child because there is no threat to the parent and they can control the child. When the child starts to become their own self and have likes and dislikes that is when the parent changes towards the child. Their ways were always there but just didn't need to use their tactics until the child started to grow up. The parent knows how to trip up the child and hinder development all in the name of control. When we're raised by a narcissistic parent the child doesn't see anything wrong because they are trying to be good little children to their idiot narcissistic parent and they don't know anything different. The child wants to see the good and sometimes we go our entire lives giving the benefit of the doubt and it's a complete waste of time.
Most people do need some caregiving as they get older, but in a healthy relationship, I believe there wouldn't be a felt sense of obligation on the part of the child. I heard an interesting comment about some eastern cultures, in which the elderly 'make themselves easy to carry.' Their attitude isn't, 'you owe me this,' but rather, 'I appreciate you being there to help me in my time of need, and I won't put any unnecessary demands on you.'
@@mmd9976 Likes and dislikes. Absolutely. We were not allowed to have any preferences at all, including what food we wanted to eat. My NPD dad once beat me black and blue (remember screaming so loud I couldn't believe the neighbors didn't hear me) at age 7 or 8 for refusing to eat my disgusting scrambled eggs. Enabler mom, brother and sis all sitting there at the breakfast table, "better her than me" attitude as I got yanked up by my arm and then pounded on in the corner! This was on a Saturday morning when mom actually made a sit-down breakfast. The beating I got, I might as well have burned the house down or killed grandma -- the severity would have been the same. Sis still remembers being forced to sit at the table for hours after dinner until she drank all of her milk. Well, the best I can say is I moved to Paris 20 years ago to take a job and wow, they tried to guilt the sh*t out of me during Covid but I didn't flinch.
You went back out of kindness. Children to pay parents back for nurturing them?.. haha I am sure there are thousands of parents who produce kids precisely as an investment, but this is not proper nor loving.
So good to listen to this.Finally someone who REALLY understands.
The most betrayal comes from the enabling parent in my case it’s my dad who never ever been in my side since I was a kid , neglected me completely just to satisfy his narcissistic wife ( mother supposed to be) he is the spear head for her that pokes me all my life and it goes deeper every time she gets more angry that she did t realize that I’m not her puppet that can control or the one to project all her failures on me , parents loves their kids unconditionally and treats them equally.
When I read about so many narc parents I realize how common and not special these horrible people are.
Jay, all of your videos hit on my situation with my Dad exactly. Before I went no contact, if I politely declined an invitation I was always told by him that I was disappointing my whole family. It really made me feel excluded. I am no contact now and am closer with other family members now which just shows how manipulative this type of behavior is. Thank you for this validation!
I am so grateful for these videos. This is the most helpful information for me that I've come across on this topic.
same here. i thought i was healing before. now it feels like i’m just getting started.
Thank you Jay!
Please please speak more on narcissistic debt and how to not feel indebted to them.
I still feel like everything is going to fall apart, even though I went no contact years ago!
Going no contact isn't enough because the programming still lives inside you.
That's a common phrase I'd hear Mom say. "It's owed to me."
Hey, I really like your videos a lot. Could you do a video explaining why narcissists gaslight? I really enjoy the way you describe narcissistic abuse in an analytical way.
Never cheering but always dramatic crying without explanation ( but never talk emotions)making me feel probly missing that when feeling on track in my own life. All the time setting me back by making me a failure by default would I have addressed this I would get attacked by the others. I got it after a year moving out. How can I grow when there is zero trust.
Everytime Jay speaks I feel like someone finally understands. I'm so grateful he makes these videos.
Big love and best wishes y'all ❤
I appreciate that
Im working through being scapegoated by peers and family, Im reading self help books and Dr Jay your videos are most helpful. Let the healing process begin. 🎉
The algorithm is working - came across via Tim Fletcher and Patrick Tehan - this is great insight as I’ve been struggling with parts and a slightly woolly self who isn’t sure who he is or what he really wants (has to!) achieve
So true. I always had a feeling that I was the one to care for my family ( even when it was impossible) and also seemed like I was designated to look after my parents in their old age. “Don’t move too far away from them” like. Always in the back of my mind. Wierd. Makes sense now. Thank you Dr Jay
Internalizing the fear from the Narcissist, been doing this.
Interesting that you say,"deprogramming", Jay, because atm I'm continuing my learning about mind control, interrogation techniques and so on from ex-military and other experts. In 2008/09 I was counselled by a psychologist for the first time (couldn't worm out of it!) & he stated unequivocally that experiences I had were brain washing, torture type stuff - I figured he knew because he worked for the Australian Army in the war in Iraq. Frankly, astonishing, not sure I really believed him. But in the last 18 months or so, since learning about narcissism's dynamics and characteristics I recognise many things thus my interest in learning about brain washing etc, and there it is, clear as day. Still astonishing, and I believe the psychologist now. I'm curious how the military deprogrammes people as perhaps they have techniques that might help along with the insights and other helpful things. So far it's intriguing stuff - will see how it goes.
That's fascinating.
Pls make a video on ‘safe people’ definition. That would be so helpful! Right now, I have escape routes… just in case I thought someone was safe, turns out not to be. Ty!
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you. I had that kind of parent. I am no contact now.
Had to watch this one twice, it’s so deep and dope.
My mom forces unwanted gifts if I dont take them she gets mad and then talks horrible about me complaining I'm ungrateful and cruel to her I stopped taking her gifts two years ago and she tells everyone I refuse to embrace her after all she has done for me she gets other family members involved trying to expose me and getting others in stuff they know nothing about I havent seen my mom step dad and most of my family in over 2 years and they all act clueless saying I'm weird for separating myself there is nothing weird to me about protecting my energy mental health and over all wellbeing I got really tired of people telling me that's just how my mom is and I only get one mom or it wasnt that bad I'm tired of them minimizing my pain and traumas my mom mentally emotionally and spiritually traumatized me literally my entire life I'm not even a person in my moms eyes she calls me the enemy and she doesn't see me as someone who has rights I'm a thing to my mom they dont get it
Thank you for verbalizing something I have been trying to understand and also explain to therapists for years, but did not know how. I can't afford therapy right now, so your help and clarity from these free videos is life-saving. I am amazed that the therapists I went to, did not seem to know anything about this. I have had epiphanies from watching your videos, that I have not found in other areas. Thank you beyond words Dr. Reid.
This is why people submit to cults