The only thing I liked about the cenobite lore was that if you didn't intentionally summon them, even if you solved the puzzle (especially if you were coerced into it), then you could get them to leave you alone. So the puzzle box being an unwilling sacrifice machine breaks everything.
To say this is the second or third best Hellraiser movie doesn't really mean a whole lot, but at the same time that definitely feels like cause for celebration, that we finally got an enjoyable one for the first time in 30 years. Maybe that blinded me to its flaws, but I really enjoyed this movie.
@@swiftxrt they just give a bit more context for the lore and stuff that appears in the most recent one, if you've got time to kill and can find them, then sure, but they're not essential. skip the rest, they are varying degrees of bad, getting markedly worse as the franchise goes on. not even good bad (though the 3rd might scrape into that category depending on how your taste in tryhard super-90's mtv s&m aesthetics goes), just straight up and down terrible, why did they make this, bad. the one before the latest one didn't even feel like an actual film and i'm still wondering how they got the rights to the ip.
I think the biggest thematic flaw with this hellraiser is that it's totally unsexed, which is true of like every hellraiser besides the first one. The idea that "pleasure and pain" are two sides of the same coin is purely nominal at this point, when originally it was about exploring this space where desire becomes violent. Like, Barker was a sex worker during the AIDS epidemic, hellraiser so clearly comes from this place where intimacy means death. The original is about adultery, incest, murder being counterposed to these S&M club demons who thrive in that dysfunction and fear. It's a deeply queer story produced under the violence of the reagan/thatcher era that is honestly perfect for an adaptation today, if they just went for it. But instead we get feeble gestures to addiction without any content of its pain and desire. Like i enjoyed it fine but it's so thematically bereft that i think i'm more likely to rewatch Hellraiser in Space than this one. also no butterball 2/10
I haven't seen the new movie, just this review. There was a Cenobyte with spikes where his eyes should be that leered over another character. It was a good design on its own, and frankly the only one that didn't look like a latex suit, but I think it was supposed to be a skinny version of Butterball.
The Cenobite attire being made from their own, still attached, flayed skin was a more intriguing lore addition to me than the multiple forms of the Lamentation Configuration consuming people to summon Leviathan. Especially with that detracting from the monkey's paw idea of intentionally summoning the Cenobites. "It's not the hands that summon us, but desire" is such a cool motivational philosophy. (Acknowledging that Bradley had to say that in Hellrasier II to keep the other Cenobite from tearing apart Tiffany and go looking for the doctor instead... which I interpret as there being some level of conflicting ideologies among the Cenobites as to their interactions with mortals.)
@@kefkaexdeath The comics series that spun off from the movies remains on my to check out list as I'm pretty sure there was essentially a religious war in the Cenobite domain as a plot point. There's such a crunchy filling to the lurid presentation that continues to fascinate me (and frustrates me when people keeping plucking the low hanging fruit or tree droppings instead).
The problem with the cinobites from the reboot is that they were fairly 'dry.' In Clive Barker's movie their exposed viscera tended to be shiny, making it look more like I imagine actual gore would look. In the reboot it was fairly flat, and looked more liked someone wearing a costume, which I suspect wasn't an accident.
@@screenPhiles I'd say that's valid seeing as I don't think that it 100% clocked-in that the cenobites were wearing their own skin until whatstheirface was being processed by Leviathan.
I always assumed that when a person is killed by the cenobites your torture continued in the hell dimension they're from. Like, sure your physical earthly body is dead... but that doesn't mean your torture is going to stop.
They definitely imply that. So much so that the lead wants her brother back, but immediately shuts the Hell-Priest down when the idea of wishing him back with Leviathan's favor comes up. Because she can already see the monkey's paw. Them ready to do something far worse to him just because they could take advantage of her desire to have him freed.
I think that can explain why the Cenobites kill so fast. They are collecting a soul for their God Leviathan- they get to take a little bit of torture for themselves, like a payment, and then they have to kill them and shepherd that soul to the torture god. Their god might be angered if they tried to take too much suffering for themselves. I think Leviathan is supposed to be much more scary than the Cenobites.
This is explicit in The Hellbound Heart where Frank tells Julia about both his experiences in hell, but also before he actually has a body he communicates to her from whatever dimension the Cenobites are from requesting more blood in order to crossover better and eventually get a body. The second movie also makes this explicit merely by having Frank and Julia there at all when they got hardcore murdered. Second movie is still written by Clive Barker even if he didn't end up directing it like he did the first one
I think the bit for the og cenobites isn't just "they think torture is a gift of intense sensation" but rather "the pursuit of pleasure turned into pursuit of sensation, which became dull as they reached the limits of sensation to the point where existing as walking mutilations cannot elicit any response." Pinhead is famously "exquisitely empty" after all. The result of falling for the seduction of experience or even knowledge of the box is agony, and eventual numbness, because the allure of what you desire is always greater than the thing itself.
It sticks out in my mind how in the book, Frank's point if view once the box is opened is a series of highs (pleasure) and lows (pain), changing in ways as to get the maximum amount of sensation possible. Also, it started with things as mundane as hearing becoming agonizing to withstand. It sounded a good deal like a drug trip.
Yeah, the book was way more explicit about this: “‘We know what you expected,’ the Cenobite replied. ‘We understand to its breadth and depth the nature of your frenzy. It is utterly familiar to us.’ Frank grunted. ‘So,’ he said, ‘you know what I’ve dreamed about. You can supply the pleasure.’ The thing’s face broke open, its lips curling back: a baboon’s smile. ‘Not as you understand it,’ came the reply.”
I always thought it was interesting that in Hellraiser II Pinhead takes Dr Channard to hell because "It is not hands that call us, but desire" suggesting that it's not the box itself, but a desire to know what's IN the box. For all we know the box itself could simply be a completely mundane puzzle but if you get obsessed enough with opening it, it still works.
I think the Cenobite designs in the 2022 movie don't work as well as in the original because they don't look moist and sticky enought. They look like dissecated corpses reanimated after an autopsy, not like living beings with wounds kept perpetually open by hooks and wires. The designs probably looked better in concept art, but the makeup and prop departments of the production rendered them too dry for some reason.
The most disappointing thing with this movie for me was that desire no longer summoned them, it became the hands. The new looks worked for me, they all looked like they were clothed in their own flayed skin, and that was awesome.
FASCINATING FACT☝🏽 The original ‘87 Hellraiser was filmed at a house in Dollis Hill, North London. Just around corner from the house I grew up in. We didn’t see anything & had no idea what was going on at the time. But we were shocked when we rented the movie a few years later from the video shop
A coworker of mine came in one morning in shock saying he saw swastika flags and people in nazi uniforms in his village when he drove to work. We were kinda worried and thought he went nuts; turns out they were shooting a war movie 😆
Jamie Clayton did a really good job with the Pinhead character. The more sculptural Cenobite look was pretty neat This is also the best Chatterer appearance since the 80s - I clapped when You Know What happened to him and he just submitted to it, a true believer, unafraid.
In the comic book tie-ins, Elliot Spencer was actually just one of many "Pinhead" cenobites. Apparently its a favorite design for Leviathan to use, and there have been previous versions of Pinhead that act as a Hell-Pope of sorts, as well as some who would later replace him. Kirsty Cotton, the protagonist of the first two films became a pinhead cenobite. She got better (long story). The idea of a female or fem-coded Pinhead isn't that strange.
@@jabba1984 The property isn't listed on BOOM!'s site anymore, so likely not. Best bet would appear to be Comixology for digital editions or hitting up some used book stores, comic shops, or swap meets/conventions.
I collected the comics while they were still in print. I definitely like it better than pretty much all but the first two movies. It's really well done, although the lore feels a little off.
I think one of the things that kinda took the bite out of the movie for me was that people were just... Dead when the cinobytes finished with them. In the first movie, when you see the spinning pillar, there's a hint that those pieces are still feeling, still suffering. In the new movie it's more like "nope, all dead". I think it would have been more terrifying to have some scene later where they come across the previous victims, even if it's just pieces and you get the same insinuation (or outright statement) that while they may not be alive, they haven't been given the release of death either.
I always thought the concept of liking pain was weird. Then I remembered that I like spicy foods. For those that don’t know, you don’t sense “spicy.” It’s actually pain.
yeah, little do people realize, when you eat spicy foods, it ACTUALLY sets your mouth on fire. I don't know why people don't realize this, but it's a big problem.
Pleasantly surprised with another Scardey Cats video. Felt like it had been a long time since you uploaded, but I think it's just time compression from a very intense & frustrating month. Pushing for growth & improvement in my life while sitting on a ragged emotional edge. Soooo is nice to see this channel (and Pushing Up Roses *and* Atop the Fourth Wall) upload new videos. I sincerely appreciate the slower pace, a sign of creators resisting the toxic beast of the godamn YT algorithm.
I do really enjoy the designs in this. I understand why some would not since it downs down the leather s&m feel substantially but I also like how much cenobites really do feel like these angelic strange humans
I’m pretty sure any relationship with Bobby is by definition a paranormal relationship, given what he’s a metaphor for grief given physical form and what have you.
i think the "senseless killing" thing is something you could levy at any movie in the franchise, including the first, and the second movie confirms that death isn't the end with the cenobites. i love the attitude of the cenobites in this one; like when the Chatterer is sacrificed, he seems honored, and the Hell Priest looks amused with Riley for finding a clever solution. I also love the ending, how the Hell Priest finds the form of torture Riley chose to be just as delicious as any other. i think this is one of the best Hellraiser films yet, but i know there's a better one waiting to be made, which i find really exciting!
The worst part of the movie is that the trailer was actually pretty great. It prominently featured the line about how the puzzle box cut you as you solved it, and, divorced from the context of the movie and how it actually works, it was such an intriguing idea. Like, it makes sense in the context of "it's not the hands that call us but desire." A normal person would be cut once and never touch the thing again because it's clearly unsafe, but someone who finds the promise of Cenobites alluring would come back, proving they belong together by the very act of opening the box and bloodening their hands. It also makes a fine metaphor for obsession and addiction, fitting the new protagonist. It's something that hurts you, that will eventually kill you, but also something you can't live without. There is definitely a better version of this story, one where the protagonist is more into this shit and keeps coming back to the Lament Configuration even as it destroys her life and body bit by bit.
Your the 1st person to point out that having a gender change is a lateral move in a movie about sexual "deviancy" Having Pinhead be a woman was really the smart thing to do from a studio perspective: it's cannon to the book and it solves the Doug Bradley problem. That said, I wanted to love this movie but it was totally nurtured of the raw sexuality that seeths from the 1st 2 films and pretty much everything else you said is spot on.
Look, this movie gave me Jamie Clayton Pinhead, and that's honestly all I wanted from it. I had a simple desire and it fulfilled that desire and I was satisfied.
My favorite thing about this movie is that it will maybe put a bigger spotlight on other, very interesting movies by the same director, such as The Ritual, No One Gets Out Alive, and The Night House.
I feel like this was the first good Hellraiser sequel since the second hellraiser movie. The dysfunctional addiction family feud chaos felt relatable and realistic. The different configurations seemed to explain different ways they treated say the big baddy in Hellraiser 2 versus many others.
Also yeah "evil guys doing evil things" is really how the Cenobites are portrayed. Like they never really live up to the awesome presentation when they are first shown in Hellraiser. It's really disappointing.
In the original and it's sequel, they're placed as completely amoral, not evil, but that seems like it's too difficult a thing to write effectively so they just become another slow moving slaughter machine. They always reminded me of genies/djinn rather than demons, you call them, they're bound by certain rules of engagement, completely alien in terms of what they are, disengaged and disinterested but they'll give you what you ask for, not necessarily how you wanted it, but you'll get it. Defeated through wits and playing their rules against them rather than strength.
@@anyotherdayortime "I am the WISHMASTER! Ask of me what you wish!" "Uh, for you to go away and leave me alone?" "Ahh! So you want to have your entrails sucked out by goats when I leave! YOUR WISH IS MY COMMAND!"
I really liked the latest Hellraiser. I was a massive fan of the first two films, so much so that I think the 3rd film with Dax from Deep Space Nine was pretty ok-ish! The new film could have been better, but I was never bored. I loved that they tried to tackle how addiction can take over ones existence, how friends and family relate to addiction, and how wealth actively seeks to manipulate those suffering in active addiction. Wealth trying to access even more power than it already has on Earth is a great angle. The ending was interesting and I really hope it gets a sequel because for the first time in decades there is finally some Hellraiser material worth building off of.
I think the issue with the non-pinhead cenobites is that their mutilations are too severe to not be wet. Pinheads' kinda makes sense. The injuries have healed and scarred in place, or are still open, still seeping. The others are much more "peeled", but in some way even drier than an occasionally exposed pinhole. For this, they give the impression of jerky, of leather-consequently of clothes. And clothes aren't that weird, even if they're gross. If you're gonna do viscera-as-clothes, even Elden Ring's Godskins were more effective, conveying the bloat of rotting humanoid skin that's been detached from its host. The secondary cenobites' "clothes" are so fresh, so vibrant, yet so dry, that they hit this uncanny middle where you can only possibly see them as a prop made to LOOK like the viscera they're implied to be made of. Tryhard food dye practical effects would have been better.
I just read The Scarlet Gospels and it was clearly not written by Barker outside of the intro. It's such a deviation from not only the Cenobites legacy but also his style of writing. It was like James Pattersons Hellraiser.
I enjoyed the re-imagining, but having the box cycle through shapes and the demons taking anyone it cut meant the box is now just a weapon that can take anyone - not just those who seek to explore worlds of pleasure or pain. The first and second movies kept to that basic concept that desire, not hands call the demons... The third diverged, but had an in-universe reason for the box being unbound from the rules. This new version - you could trip and cut yourself on the box or get stabbed by it, and it doesn't matter - you're doomed for torture and torment. It's not really satisfying.
Hellraiser has been my favorite horror movie since I was a kid. This one is definitely my second favorite after the original, and I'm mainly just glad to get another good Hellraiser movie, finally. But everything you pointed out was completely valid, as always.
It was Scooby-Doo 'N The Crew meets the Cenobites. It's just like Cabin In The Woods :they couldn't afford the rights, so they did the best they could. This should have been an animated flick of satire and they would have been perfectly fine.
I was skeptical about the female Hell Priest at first but she really won me over and given the golden seal of approval from the original Hell Priest Doug Bradley and the creator Clive Barker.
uncle fester having his origin story expounded upon is pretty cool, but i personally think it would be much more rewarding for both horror and comedy as a whole if we had Bobby Duke's origin story explained in the next installment of his series.
12:20 I think Hellraiser has been crushed under the weight of its own mythos. The original novel/movie was a tawdry middle-class cuckholding potboiler with magical S&M thrown in for spice. It was an unpretentious morality tale about lust taken too far, which left room for dark psycho-sexuality to be a prominent theme. But then piles of lore were dropped on top of that simple premise. I haven't seen the new one, but just from your summary we see that here. It feels the need to make room for explaining Hell and getting Leviathan in there, presumably because the filmmakers thought that The Fans would demand a lot of lore throwbacks. So now half the movie is exposition explaining itself. And the more baroque this all becomes, the more it gets wrapped up in its internal mythology, the less room there is for the original psychology and character-driven plotting to come through.
I feel like Mildred watched a completely different movie than I did. It didn't feel overlong or boring to me at all! Easily one of the best Hellraisers. Somehow.
i was so ready for this movie, i just kind of enjoyed it in an uncomplicated way so it was nice to hear critique of it quite honestly. after all the STINKER sequels I've sat through, it was a nice re-introduction to the show I hope this turns into.
Hellraiser is the best adaptation of Dragon Ball Z we've ever gotten. Think about it. 7 souls, 7 balls. Summon God for a wish, summon God for a wish...
If it helps your feelings on the Scarlet Gospels any, it's events are basically just a footnote in the wider Books of Blood/The Art setting that revolves around Harry, and despite the Big Thing that happens at the end of the Scarlet Gospels you can rest assured knowing that it basically has little deeper value beyond Harry getting an upgrade.
Man, The Scarlet Gospels. I'm a Hellraiser fan, generally enjoy Barker's books, and my god what a disappointment. Every page felt like the author hating their own work, removing nuance while angrily shouting "THIS IS WHAT YOU WAAAAAANT!!" Anywho, thanks for the review! I didn't know this movie existed. The cgi blending looks really heavy handed.
Clive Barker has done “wants to meet the devil” like five times and each time it gets worse. Remember Jericho? Remember “Down, Satan”? Get a new plot, Clive
I think the idea of the cenobites wearing black attires is better than the cenobites getting their skin modified in the shape of clothes because the black attires give the cenobites a more majestic dark aura.
I personally really enjoyed the new cenobite designs. There are a few a bit over designed, but it felt closer to how I saw them when I first read Hellbound Heart.
I really liked it. I was high, but still. The new Cenobite designs/costumes were great. Much closer to what I've always imagined, unlike the black trashbag look the OG movies brought.
I am EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED in this review. If there was ONE person that I thought I could count on to talk about my main problem with this movie I thought it would be the Mil-Dread. The biggest reason this movie doesn't work, the biggest reason none of the Cenobites look as scary, the big reason the chains look less threatening is that EVERYTHING IS TOO DRY. Imagine how much better this movie would be if every chain, every prosthetic and every puppet was WET. This movie was just 5 barrels of KY Jelly away from excellence. The reason Hellraiser works as a series is because its main premise is "What if wet puppets were people?". This is almost as bad as season 2 of Star Trek Picard where they had a dry Borg Queen.
In agreement with 07:20, Cenobites are supposed to be more like if Hannibal Lector achieved apotheosis. Not like if Jason Vorhees developed a leather kink fetish.
It wasn’t the worst reboot. Kinda reminiscent of the Evil Dead remake but I didn’t think it was terrible. I liked the lore additions at the very least.
ive always preferred the Cenobites to be more of an eldritch terror. it's the horror equivalent of the Borg - the more you try to explain, or write in a backstory, the less terrifying they become. Sure, getting flashbacks of Pinhead as a human, or character explorations of Seven of Nine's assimilation are interesting, but leave the lore alone. We don't need to know! Not knowing makes it more terrifying!
I definitely felt like the movie's attention was split between entertaining existing fans of the series while also onboarding new people and, while I DO love a good slow-burn horror, I think it took a little too long to actually get to the good shit, but also holy FUCK the third act of this movie was incredible and I genuinely have hope for what future Hellraiser movies might have in store.
Great video, Mildew! Love your stuff a lot. One little note: pretty sure the puzzle box is just called the puzzle box and the Lament Configuration is how you have to solve it to summon the Cenobites. Not that it matters, because everyone gets it wrong, like calling Pinhead Pinhead, but much more personally annoying for me, haha.
I'd highly recommend the comic books. Their depiction of the Cenobites is closer to what you describe. I'd particularly recommend the short story "With My Lips", written by John Rozum. It's in Clive Barkers Hellraiser Masterpieces Volume III.
Yeah I thought it was too much of a departure from the fundamental horniness of the original, but like... the actual filmmaking and all that was so incredible in this one imo.
Since I watched the original Hellraiser in the year it came out I was fascinated just how well all the parts of the story work together and how fast paced and original the movie was. Since then I dont think any other writer understood what made it work so well and I have the suspicion neither does Clive Barker. I assume he must have written the short story under the influence of a muse that never came back to him afterwards and she basically cursed him to never be able to grasp the concepts that make it so such a great masterpiece.
I thought it was alright. But it def felt like a PG-13 version of Hellraiser. Make ups look great. Some effects are good but felt like a lot were missing, that PG-13 feel. The configurations were cool for the puzzle box tho.
I watched both the first and new now back to back and quite equally enjoyed both, although, the 2022 one felt less note worthy and likely to stick out in my memories. Love em both, love those cenobites.
There were a couple of movies in this franchise where it was a completely different story until Pinhead shows up towards the end to basically serve as a Rod Sterling. I'm basically willing to take anything that's not that, which might make me part of the problem.
I'll probably enjoy this review more than the movie itself, which probably has a lot to do with me being really bad with body horror gore stuff, and also I just don't have the patience for movies that are paced poorly. I just never get around to watching them. Still happy so see Jamie Clayton *nailing* it in such an awesome role though, especially with how well the design turned out, and maybe it's just me but like her repeating the original Doug Bradley lines that just seems cool? Like, that's usually the kind of throwbacks I can get behind.
Same. And mulling it over a bit with the idea that the Pinhead/Hell Priest monicker is a title as opposed to a character makes it feel like it's part of their ritual/sales pitch/slogan and less, "They said the thing!" That whole repeated call and response thing that is used to indoctrinate people like, "The Lord be with you." "And also with you" "Let us pray..." or "Now I know" "Knowing is half the battle."
I know eventually I will give in and watch it. Amongst the various things causing my feet to drag: the cenobites look almost like something out of a macabre animation to me.. there's something too, i dunno, "clean" and/or CGI looking to them for me.
Those who balk at a female cenobite as "woke" clearly never encountered the Marvel comics timeline in the 1980s. Kirstie Cotton eventually became Pinhead's successor.
I think there needs to be a law passed that if a movie is over an hour and a half that the director/writer/producer need to write out a 50 page essay delivered to everyone who might want to watch said movie explaining why the movie deserves to be over an hour and a half.
8:40 That really is the most frustrating part about the movie-- What it could have been. For example, I really wish the guilt and shame element was in there. Speaking as an addict I think one of the most frustrating elements of recovery for me was the way that people would treat me as if I was always on the brink of relapse and the way that shame would make a relapse easier-- if they're always going to treat me that way then why should I struggle against it? They'll always look at me when something goes missing and the worst part is I can't even justify feeling angry about it because I'd look at me, too. Not to mention, there's the shame element of kink and the way it plays into some people's preferences to tie it up (pun totally intended) with the beauty and passion and S&M fashion in the Ceeeno- Cenobite Maaansion. Cenobites have so much interesting stuff to deal with what's seen as taboo vs what's actually wrong and horror is the perfect fictional space to play with that, but they've done it like twice.
Well, i think the only reason the Scarlet Gospels exists is because Clive wanted to A) Kill Pinhead and B) Write another Harry D'amour story because who doesn't want their own version of Harry Dresden?
Hey there! Sorry to bother you, but are you a fan of the Dresden Files? I haven't been able to read any of the books since Summer's Knight was new, sadly, and was wondering if I should seek out the rest of the books. Are they worth it?
What's especially interesting in regards to the Scarlet Gospel is that there's also two Clive Barker written graphic novels that serve as sequels to Hellraise 1 and 2 and those are also set in cartoon hell, so I guess it's double true that the gist of the appeal has been missed. In fact in those novels and uh, spoilers I guess, Kirsty from the first movie replaces Pinhead in hell and allows his soul (a first world war solider) to pass on, becoming the new pinhead in the process. This makes the idiots complaining about a lady pinhead doubly wrong because that's just like, the canon of the series now.
I first watched it when my ex randomly stopped by one night and afterwards they just said "Wow. Extremely kinky, tall, transfem demon lady. Must be your new favorite movie." It was not, and I think they didn't go nearly far enough with the concepts, but it did make me excited to watch the original.
Hey wanna know a funny? Pinhead is a killer in the game Dead By Daylight, and one of his abilities is teleporting to a survivor who tries to open the box and says "you opened the box. I came." But before a patch he'd teleport mid-sentence, so from a survivor's perspective he just teleports to you and goes "I came"
It was ok. Not crazy about the pins being actual pins instead of nails though. As you said - cenobites too pretty. 3/5 Made me re-read the book though. It still holds up.
I feel like mainstream media and such inherently run away from kinky ideas and bdsm style stuff, and body horror of this type.(not that I think bdsm is about killing people with torture) it just constantly seems like mainstream media CONSISTENTLY pushes against sex stuff, and kink, even if it'd be extremely profitable. even if its the inherent concept to a particular story, they just DO NOT like that kind of stuff. they simply WON'T DO IT if they could help it, and whenever visionaries bring it in, mainstream media will parade it like it's amazing, but then shortly after, it will shuffly it into the back of the closet. and if it was successful enough to make a bunch of money, they'll just.. remake a new sanitized version to attempt to "capture the magic" again even though that is LITERALLY not how that works. it's like seeing someone read an algebraic equation, say its amazing, and then wiping it off the board. then they start beating their head into the board to try and make something similar, when.... that's just not how it works?? and it just puts blood on the chalk board that they''ll have to clean up later. it's just really stupid is my point.
The only thing I liked about the cenobite lore was that if you didn't intentionally summon them, even if you solved the puzzle (especially if you were coerced into it), then you could get them to leave you alone. So the puzzle box being an unwilling sacrifice machine breaks everything.
Then you could *maybe* get them to leave you alone.
To say this is the second or third best Hellraiser movie doesn't really mean a whole lot, but at the same time that definitely feels like cause for celebration, that we finally got an enjoyable one for the first time in 30 years. Maybe that blinded me to its flaws, but I really enjoyed this movie.
should I be watching the original ones first, or...?
@@swiftxrt they just give a bit more context for the lore and stuff that appears in the most recent one, if you've got time to kill and can find them, then sure, but they're not essential. skip the rest, they are varying degrees of bad, getting markedly worse as the franchise goes on. not even good bad (though the 3rd might scrape into that category depending on how your taste in tryhard super-90's mtv s&m aesthetics goes), just straight up and down terrible, why did they make this, bad.
the one before the latest one didn't even feel like an actual film and i'm still wondering how they got the rights to the ip.
Well, this movie wasn´t bad, i liked it BUT it feels like #Hellraiser PG-13 🤔
Fourth for me... I love Hellraiser V
it was a pleasant surprise.
I think the biggest thematic flaw with this hellraiser is that it's totally unsexed, which is true of like every hellraiser besides the first one. The idea that "pleasure and pain" are two sides of the same coin is purely nominal at this point, when originally it was about exploring this space where desire becomes violent. Like, Barker was a sex worker during the AIDS epidemic, hellraiser so clearly comes from this place where intimacy means death. The original is about adultery, incest, murder being counterposed to these S&M club demons who thrive in that dysfunction and fear. It's a deeply queer story produced under the violence of the reagan/thatcher era that is honestly perfect for an adaptation today, if they just went for it. But instead we get feeble gestures to addiction without any content of its pain and desire. Like i enjoyed it fine but it's so thematically bereft that i think i'm more likely to rewatch Hellraiser in Space than this one.
also no butterball 2/10
Heck this is such a good take and taught me so mucb about both Barker and the franchise in just one comment, thank you!
++
I haven't seen the new movie, just this review. There was a Cenobyte with spikes where his eyes should be that leered over another character. It was a good design on its own, and frankly the only one that didn't look like a latex suit, but I think it was supposed to be a skinny version of Butterball.
No butterball is a crime
Is butterball the one that chases people down the hallway? Because that was easily the scariest visual of the film for me. I liked that bit.
I was really disappointed that there was no Cenobite with a CD player installed in it's cranium.
The Cenobite attire being made from their own, still attached, flayed skin was a more intriguing lore addition to me than the multiple forms of the Lamentation Configuration consuming people to summon Leviathan. Especially with that detracting from the monkey's paw idea of intentionally summoning the Cenobites. "It's not the hands that summon us, but desire" is such a cool motivational philosophy. (Acknowledging that Bradley had to say that in Hellrasier II to keep the other Cenobite from tearing apart Tiffany and go looking for the doctor instead... which I interpret as there being some level of conflicting ideologies among the Cenobites as to their interactions with mortals.)
man could you imagine if they'd actually gone somewhere with that 🥲
Cenobite couture was top notch😚🤌
@@kefkaexdeath The comics series that spun off from the movies remains on my to check out list as I'm pretty sure there was essentially a religious war in the Cenobite domain as a plot point. There's such a crunchy filling to the lurid presentation that continues to fascinate me (and frustrates me when people keeping plucking the low hanging fruit or tree droppings instead).
The problem with the cinobites from the reboot is that they were fairly 'dry.' In Clive Barker's movie their exposed viscera tended to be shiny, making it look more like I imagine actual gore would look. In the reboot it was fairly flat, and looked more liked someone wearing a costume, which I suspect wasn't an accident.
@@screenPhiles I'd say that's valid seeing as I don't think that it 100% clocked-in that the cenobites were wearing their own skin until whatstheirface was being processed by Leviathan.
I always assumed that when a person is killed by the cenobites your torture continued in the hell dimension they're from. Like, sure your physical earthly body is dead... but that doesn't mean your torture is going to stop.
They definitely imply that. So much so that the lead wants her brother back, but immediately shuts the Hell-Priest down when the idea of wishing him back with Leviathan's favor comes up. Because she can already see the monkey's paw. Them ready to do something far worse to him just because they could take advantage of her desire to have him freed.
I think that can explain why the Cenobites kill so fast. They are collecting a soul for their God Leviathan- they get to take a little bit of torture for themselves, like a payment, and then they have to kill them and shepherd that soul to the torture god. Their god might be angered if they tried to take too much suffering for themselves. I think Leviathan is supposed to be much more scary than the Cenobites.
This is explicit in The Hellbound Heart where Frank tells Julia about both his experiences in hell, but also before he actually has a body he communicates to her from whatever dimension the Cenobites are from requesting more blood in order to crossover better and eventually get a body. The second movie also makes this explicit merely by having Frank and Julia there at all when they got hardcore murdered. Second movie is still written by Clive Barker even if he didn't end up directing it like he did the first one
"Did you like that I just did that?"
I... I did, yes. I am incredibly vulnerable to Doing The Line.
I think the bit for the og cenobites isn't just "they think torture is a gift of intense sensation" but rather "the pursuit of pleasure turned into pursuit of sensation, which became dull as they reached the limits of sensation to the point where existing as walking mutilations cannot elicit any response."
Pinhead is famously "exquisitely empty" after all. The result of falling for the seduction of experience or even knowledge of the box is agony, and eventual numbness, because the allure of what you desire is always greater than the thing itself.
It sticks out in my mind how in the book, Frank's point if view once the box is opened is a series of highs (pleasure) and lows (pain), changing in ways as to get the maximum amount of sensation possible. Also, it started with things as mundane as hearing becoming agonizing to withstand. It sounded a good deal like a drug trip.
@@SirSblop They gave my man autism as a way to torture him. Hypersensitivity go brrrr
Yeah, the book was way more explicit about this:
“‘We know what you expected,’ the Cenobite replied. ‘We understand to its breadth and depth the nature of your frenzy. It is utterly familiar to us.’
Frank grunted. ‘So,’ he said, ‘you know what I’ve dreamed about. You can supply the pleasure.’ The thing’s face broke open, its lips curling back: a baboon’s smile. ‘Not as you understand it,’ came the reply.”
I always thought it was interesting that in Hellraiser II Pinhead takes Dr Channard to hell because "It is not hands that call us, but desire" suggesting that it's not the box itself, but a desire to know what's IN the box. For all we know the box itself could simply be a completely mundane puzzle but if you get obsessed enough with opening it, it still works.
I think the Cenobite designs in the 2022 movie don't work as well as in the original because they don't look moist and sticky enought. They look like dissecated corpses reanimated after an autopsy, not like living beings with wounds kept perpetually open by hooks and wires. The designs probably looked better in concept art, but the makeup and prop departments of the production rendered them too dry for some reason.
The most disappointing thing with this movie for me was that desire no longer summoned them, it became the hands.
The new looks worked for me, they all looked like they were clothed in their own flayed skin, and that was awesome.
FASCINATING FACT☝🏽 The original ‘87 Hellraiser was filmed at a house in Dollis Hill, North London. Just around corner from the house I grew up in. We didn’t see anything & had no idea what was going on at the time. But we were shocked when we rented the movie a few years later from the video shop
A coworker of mine came in one morning in shock saying he saw swastika flags and people in nazi uniforms in his village when he drove to work.
We were kinda worried and thought he went nuts; turns out they were shooting a war movie 😆
Jamie Clayton did a really good job with the Pinhead character. The more sculptural Cenobite look was pretty neat
This is also the best Chatterer appearance since the 80s - I clapped when You Know What happened to him and he just submitted to it, a true believer, unafraid.
In the comic book tie-ins, Elliot Spencer was actually just one of many "Pinhead" cenobites. Apparently its a favorite design for Leviathan to use, and there have been previous versions of Pinhead that act as a Hell-Pope of sorts, as well as some who would later replace him. Kirsty Cotton, the protagonist of the first two films became a pinhead cenobite. She got better (long story). The idea of a female or fem-coded Pinhead isn't that strange.
Also in the short story original "Pinhead" was meant to be coded androgynous. With a feminine voice.
The hellraiser comics are the best hellraiser content, bar none, regardless of generation, I will die on this hill.
Are the comics still in print?
@@jabba1984 The property isn't listed on BOOM!'s site anymore, so likely not. Best bet would appear to be Comixology for digital editions or hitting up some used book stores, comic shops, or swap meets/conventions.
I collected the comics while they were still in print. I definitely like it better than pretty much all but the first two movies. It's really well done, although the lore feels a little off.
I am satisfied with Hellraiser one and Two. I feel like i have explored as much as is worth exploring.
“‘Enough’ is a myth.”
I think one of the things that kinda took the bite out of the movie for me was that people were just... Dead when the cinobytes finished with them. In the first movie, when you see the spinning pillar, there's a hint that those pieces are still feeling, still suffering. In the new movie it's more like "nope, all dead". I think it would have been more terrifying to have some scene later where they come across the previous victims, even if it's just pieces and you get the same insinuation (or outright statement) that while they may not be alive, they haven't been given the release of death either.
Hot take: Event Horizon is a better Hellraiser movie than most Hellraiser movies
Event Horizon is the best!!!
Wait.... would that mean Hellraiser is in the Warhammer 40k universe now?
@@michaelcorns1789 You didn't think that before? They literally got a demon lady playing a harp made out of a dude
Beetlejuice is a better Hellraiser movie than most Hellraiser movies.
Mostly a VERY low bar
I always thought the concept of liking pain was weird.
Then I remembered that I like spicy foods. For those that don’t know, you don’t sense “spicy.” It’s actually pain.
yeah, little do people realize, when you eat spicy foods, it ACTUALLY sets your mouth on fire. I don't know why people don't realize this, but it's a big problem.
oral masochism is great
How can a movie be so long and so vague at the same time?!
I was passing out by the end of it and just waiting for the end.
Pleasantly surprised with another Scardey Cats video. Felt like it had been a long time since you uploaded, but I think it's just time compression from a very intense & frustrating month. Pushing for growth & improvement in my life while sitting on a ragged emotional edge.
Soooo is nice to see this channel (and Pushing Up Roses *and* Atop the Fourth Wall) upload new videos. I sincerely appreciate the slower pace, a sign of creators resisting the toxic beast of the godamn YT algorithm.
I do really enjoy the designs in this. I understand why some would not since it downs down the leather s&m feel substantially but I also like how much cenobites really do feel like these angelic strange humans
I tottaly get why someone would feel different though
I’m pretty sure any relationship with Bobby is by definition a paranormal relationship, given what he’s a metaphor for grief given physical form and what have you.
Star of the channel
he was though of on a marijuana edibles high tho
i think the "senseless killing" thing is something you could levy at any movie in the franchise, including the first, and the second movie confirms that death isn't the end with the cenobites. i love the attitude of the cenobites in this one; like when the Chatterer is sacrificed, he seems honored, and the Hell Priest looks amused with Riley for finding a clever solution. I also love the ending, how the Hell Priest finds the form of torture Riley chose to be just as delicious as any other. i think this is one of the best Hellraiser films yet, but i know there's a better one waiting to be made, which i find really exciting!
The worst part of the movie is that the trailer was actually pretty great. It prominently featured the line about how the puzzle box cut you as you solved it, and, divorced from the context of the movie and how it actually works, it was such an intriguing idea. Like, it makes sense in the context of "it's not the hands that call us but desire." A normal person would be cut once and never touch the thing again because it's clearly unsafe, but someone who finds the promise of Cenobites alluring would come back, proving they belong together by the very act of opening the box and bloodening their hands.
It also makes a fine metaphor for obsession and addiction, fitting the new protagonist. It's something that hurts you, that will eventually kill you, but also something you can't live without. There is definitely a better version of this story, one where the protagonist is more into this shit and keeps coming back to the Lament Configuration even as it destroys her life and body bit by bit.
Your the 1st person to point out that having a gender change is a lateral move in a movie about sexual "deviancy" Having Pinhead be a woman was really the smart thing to do from a studio perspective: it's cannon to the book and it solves the Doug Bradley problem. That said, I wanted to love this movie but it was totally nurtured of the raw sexuality that seeths from the 1st 2 films and pretty much everything else you said is spot on.
"an evil billionaire- odd that I repeat myself" is my favorite line of 2023.
Look, this movie gave me Jamie Clayton Pinhead, and that's honestly all I wanted from it. I had a simple desire and it fulfilled that desire and I was satisfied.
My favorite thing about this movie is that it will maybe put a bigger spotlight on other, very interesting movies by the same director, such as The Ritual, No One Gets Out Alive, and The Night House.
Oh wow I didn't know they were the same director, The Ritual is one of my fave horror movies (also one of the first I watched)
Loved The Ritual!
I just looked it up. It's David Bruckner, and he also did one of the best segments from V/H/S, Amateur Night!
I was under whelmed by The Night House but I loved The Ritual. I should check out No One Gets Out Alive- thanks!
I really really liked a lot of The Night House but it fell apart in the end for me.
I feel like this was the first good Hellraiser sequel since the second hellraiser movie. The dysfunctional addiction family feud chaos felt relatable and realistic. The different configurations seemed to explain different ways they treated say the big baddy in Hellraiser 2 versus many others.
Also yeah "evil guys doing evil things" is really how the Cenobites are portrayed. Like they never really live up to the awesome presentation when they are first shown in Hellraiser. It's really disappointing.
In the original and it's sequel, they're placed as completely amoral, not evil, but that seems like it's too difficult a thing to write effectively so they just become another slow moving slaughter machine. They always reminded me of genies/djinn rather than demons, you call them, they're bound by certain rules of engagement, completely alien in terms of what they are, disengaged and disinterested but they'll give you what you ask for, not necessarily how you wanted it, but you'll get it. Defeated through wits and playing their rules against them rather than strength.
@@anyotherdayortime "I am the WISHMASTER! Ask of me what you wish!"
"Uh, for you to go away and leave me alone?"
"Ahh! So you want to have your entrails sucked out by goats when I leave! YOUR WISH IS MY COMMAND!"
"No one listens to anyone else. Everyone just yells what they think and then leaves. It's perpetual conflict."
Wow, what amazing realism!
"These cenobites are too pretty" is such a Mildo criticism.
I really liked the latest Hellraiser. I was a massive fan of the first two films, so much so that I think the 3rd film with Dax from Deep Space Nine was pretty ok-ish! The new film could have been better, but I was never bored. I loved that they tried to tackle how addiction can take over ones existence, how friends and family relate to addiction, and how wealth actively seeks to manipulate those suffering in active addiction. Wealth trying to access even more power than it already has on Earth is a great angle. The ending was interesting and I really hope it gets a sequel because for the first time in decades there is finally some Hellraiser material worth building off of.
i did enjoy seeing terry Ferral in Bondage but ill admit thats my own sick desires talking
I think the issue with the non-pinhead cenobites is that their mutilations are too severe to not be wet. Pinheads' kinda makes sense. The injuries have healed and scarred in place, or are still open, still seeping. The others are much more "peeled", but in some way even drier than an occasionally exposed pinhole. For this, they give the impression of jerky, of leather-consequently of clothes. And clothes aren't that weird, even if they're gross. If you're gonna do viscera-as-clothes, even Elden Ring's Godskins were more effective, conveying the bloat of rotting humanoid skin that's been detached from its host. The secondary cenobites' "clothes" are so fresh, so vibrant, yet so dry, that they hit this uncanny middle where you can only possibly see them as a prop made to LOOK like the viscera they're implied to be made of. Tryhard food dye practical effects would have been better.
So happy when I saw this video. I love you Scaredy Cats.
On the Hellraiser grading curve, fine is really good!
I just read The Scarlet Gospels and it was clearly not written by Barker outside of the intro. It's such a deviation from not only the Cenobites legacy but also his style of writing. It was like James Pattersons Hellraiser.
I enjoyed the re-imagining, but having the box cycle through shapes and the demons taking anyone it cut meant the box is now just a weapon that can take anyone - not just those who seek to explore worlds of pleasure or pain. The first and second movies kept to that basic concept that desire, not hands call the demons... The third diverged, but had an in-universe reason for the box being unbound from the rules. This new version - you could trip and cut yourself on the box or get stabbed by it, and it doesn't matter - you're doomed for torture and torment. It's not really satisfying.
Hellraiser has been my favorite horror movie since I was a kid. This one is definitely my second favorite after the original, and I'm mainly just glad to get another good Hellraiser movie, finally. But everything you pointed out was completely valid, as always.
It was Scooby-Doo 'N The Crew meets the Cenobites. It's just like Cabin In The Woods :they couldn't afford the rights, so they did the best they could. This should have been an animated flick of satire and they would have been perfectly fine.
I've heard rumors that "The Scarlet Gospel" was ghost-written. Given how much of Clive's Hellraiser and The Art canon it ignores, I can believe it.
I was skeptical about the female Hell Priest at first but she really won me over and given the golden seal of approval from the original Hell Priest Doug Bradley and the creator Clive Barker.
Can confirm: Scarlet Gospels is a time of sadness. Please don't seek it out.
uncle fester having his origin story expounded upon is pretty cool, but i personally think it would be much more rewarding for both horror and comedy as a whole if we had Bobby Duke's origin story explained in the next installment of his series.
He was thought of while high on marijuana edibles
And now he's the star of the channel
In the books the Cenobites sex was undetermined. As a fan of Hellraiser I loved this version of the priest. It fit the book theme more.
12:20 I think Hellraiser has been crushed under the weight of its own mythos. The original novel/movie was a tawdry middle-class cuckholding potboiler with magical S&M thrown in for spice. It was an unpretentious morality tale about lust taken too far, which left room for dark psycho-sexuality to be a prominent theme. But then piles of lore were dropped on top of that simple premise.
I haven't seen the new one, but just from your summary we see that here. It feels the need to make room for explaining Hell and getting Leviathan in there, presumably because the filmmakers thought that The Fans would demand a lot of lore throwbacks. So now half the movie is exposition explaining itself. And the more baroque this all becomes, the more it gets wrapped up in its internal mythology, the less room there is for the original psychology and character-driven plotting to come through.
I feel like Mildred watched a completely different movie than I did. It didn't feel overlong or boring to me at all! Easily one of the best Hellraisers. Somehow.
i was so ready for this movie, i just kind of enjoyed it in an uncomplicated way so it was nice to hear critique of it quite honestly. after all the STINKER sequels I've sat through, it was a nice re-introduction to the show I hope this turns into.
Hellraiser is the best adaptation of Dragon Ball Z we've ever gotten. Think about it. 7 souls, 7 balls. Summon God for a wish, summon God for a wish...
Non of the cinabytes look wet, when you flay someone, it's wet, really really wet
If it helps your feelings on the Scarlet Gospels any, it's events are basically just a footnote in the wider Books of Blood/The Art setting that revolves around Harry, and despite the Big Thing that happens at the end of the Scarlet Gospels you can rest assured knowing that it basically has little deeper value beyond Harry getting an upgrade.
It's always a good day when there is a new Thought Slime / Scaredy Cats vid. I didn't even know they remade Hellraiser!
Man, The Scarlet Gospels. I'm a Hellraiser fan, generally enjoy Barker's books, and my god what a disappointment.
Every page felt like the author hating their own work, removing nuance while angrily shouting "THIS IS WHAT YOU WAAAAAANT!!"
Anywho, thanks for the review! I didn't know this movie existed. The cgi blending looks really heavy handed.
Clive Barker has done “wants to meet the devil” like five times and each time it gets worse. Remember Jericho? Remember “Down, Satan”?
Get a new plot, Clive
I think the idea of the cenobites wearing black attires is better than the cenobites getting their skin modified in the shape of clothes because the black attires give the cenobites a more majestic dark aura.
I know the bar is really low but this is the third best Hellraiser.
Pretty please do "Pumpkinhead"...it's got...wet puppets
I personally really enjoyed the new cenobite designs. There are a few a bit over designed, but it felt closer to how I saw them when I first read Hellbound Heart.
Great to see a new Scaredy Cats video! This one is still on my list to watch, but I'm not rushing.
I really liked it. I was high, but still. The new Cenobite designs/costumes were great. Much closer to what I've always imagined, unlike the black trashbag look the OG movies brought.
I am EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED in this review. If there was ONE person that I thought I could count on to talk about my main problem with this movie I thought it would be the Mil-Dread. The biggest reason this movie doesn't work, the biggest reason none of the Cenobites look as scary, the big reason the chains look less threatening is that EVERYTHING IS TOO DRY. Imagine how much better this movie would be if every chain, every prosthetic and every puppet was WET. This movie was just 5 barrels of KY Jelly away from excellence.
The reason Hellraiser works as a series is because its main premise is "What if wet puppets were people?". This is almost as bad as season 2 of Star Trek Picard where they had a dry Borg Queen.
In the comics Kirsty Cotton eventually became the Hellpriest sooo... woke up sheeple.
Outstanding! Love a new Scaredy Cats video, makes my day 👍
In agreement with 07:20, Cenobites are supposed to be more like if Hannibal Lector achieved apotheosis. Not like if Jason Vorhees developed a leather kink fetish.
I always found "what's your pleasure, sir?" to be quite chilling. Encapsulates so much in just so few words.
It wasn’t the worst reboot. Kinda reminiscent of the Evil Dead remake but I didn’t think it was terrible.
I liked the lore additions at the very least.
ive always preferred the Cenobites to be more of an eldritch terror. it's the horror equivalent of the Borg - the more you try to explain, or write in a backstory, the less terrifying they become. Sure, getting flashbacks of Pinhead as a human, or character explorations of Seven of Nine's assimilation are interesting, but leave the lore alone. We don't need to know! Not knowing makes it more terrifying!
CHAMPING! HORSES CHAMP, LEMON! Everybody else gets this wrong. I'm a little high and my day is made.
I definitely felt like the movie's attention was split between entertaining existing fans of the series while also onboarding new people and, while I DO love a good slow-burn horror, I think it took a little too long to actually get to the good shit, but also holy FUCK the third act of this movie was incredible and I genuinely have hope for what future Hellraiser movies might have in store.
Great video, Mildew! Love your stuff a lot.
One little note: pretty sure the puzzle box is just called the puzzle box and the Lament Configuration is how you have to solve it to summon the Cenobites. Not that it matters, because everyone gets it wrong, like calling Pinhead Pinhead, but much more personally annoying for me, haha.
That vocal cords thing reminds me of Elric of Melniboné (1972).
Also what I thought of
I'd highly recommend the comic books. Their depiction of the Cenobites is closer to what you describe. I'd particularly recommend the short story "With My Lips", written by John Rozum. It's in Clive Barkers Hellraiser Masterpieces Volume III.
I honestly thought they were gonna make the lead character both the Kirsty and the Frank, what with her simultaneous guilt and addictive personality.
Yeah I thought it was too much of a departure from the fundamental horniness of the original, but like... the actual filmmaking and all that was so incredible in this one imo.
Was it great? No. What it terrible? No. What it a good way to kill time for with some popcorn type of horror? Absolutely.
Since I watched the original Hellraiser in the year it came out I was fascinated just how well all the parts of the story work together and how fast paced and original the movie was. Since then I dont think any other writer understood what made it work so well and I have the suspicion neither does Clive Barker. I assume he must have written the short story under the influence of a muse that never came back to him afterwards and she basically cursed him to never be able to grasp the concepts that make it so such a great masterpiece.
Mildred: (falls asleep)
(misses Cenobite tapdancing number)
First time Scaredy Cats viewer and MIL-DREAD HOLY SHIT BRILLIANT
I thought it was alright. But it def felt like a PG-13 version of Hellraiser. Make ups look great. Some effects are good but felt like a lot were missing, that PG-13 feel.
The configurations were cool for the puzzle box tho.
I'm 22 seconds in and I'm really excited to see whether or not MilDread liked the movie or not!
I watched both the first and new now back to back and quite equally enjoyed both, although, the 2022 one felt less note worthy and likely to stick out in my memories. Love em both, love those cenobites.
There were a couple of movies in this franchise where it was a completely different story until Pinhead shows up towards the end to basically serve as a Rod Sterling. I'm basically willing to take anything that's not that, which might make me part of the problem.
“Everyone is always mad, shouting, and nobody listens to anyone else…”
Is this a movie about UA-cam comments?
I'll probably enjoy this review more than the movie itself, which probably has a lot to do with me being really bad with body horror gore stuff, and also I just don't have the patience for movies that are paced poorly. I just never get around to watching them. Still happy so see Jamie Clayton *nailing* it in such an awesome role though, especially with how well the design turned out, and maybe it's just me but like her repeating the original Doug Bradley lines that just seems cool? Like, that's usually the kind of throwbacks I can get behind.
Same. And mulling it over a bit with the idea that the Pinhead/Hell Priest monicker is a title as opposed to a character makes it feel like it's part of their ritual/sales pitch/slogan and less, "They said the thing!" That whole repeated call and response thing that is used to indoctrinate people like, "The Lord be with you." "And also with you" "Let us pray..." or "Now I know" "Knowing is half the battle."
I know eventually I will give in and watch it. Amongst the various things causing my feet to drag: the cenobites look almost like something out of a macabre animation to me.. there's something too, i dunno, "clean" and/or CGI looking to them for me.
Those who balk at a female cenobite as "woke" clearly never encountered the Marvel comics timeline in the 1980s.
Kirstie Cotton eventually became Pinhead's successor.
THANK YOU!! I felt like an insane person when everyone was raving about it
I think there needs to be a law passed that if a movie is over an hour and a half that the director/writer/producer need to write out a 50 page essay delivered to everyone who might want to watch said movie explaining why the movie deserves to be over an hour and a half.
Fuck that.
8:40 That really is the most frustrating part about the movie-- What it could have been.
For example, I really wish the guilt and shame element was in there. Speaking as an addict I think one of the most frustrating elements of recovery for me was the way that people would treat me as if I was always on the brink of relapse and the way that shame would make a relapse easier-- if they're always going to treat me that way then why should I struggle against it? They'll always look at me when something goes missing and the worst part is I can't even justify feeling angry about it because I'd look at me, too.
Not to mention, there's the shame element of kink and the way it plays into some people's preferences to tie it up (pun totally intended) with the beauty and passion and S&M fashion in the Ceeeno- Cenobite Maaansion.
Cenobites have so much interesting stuff to deal with what's seen as taboo vs what's actually wrong and horror is the perfect fictional space to play with that, but they've done it like twice.
the two hour runtime is an in-joke to torture observers
Well, i think the only reason the Scarlet Gospels exists is because Clive wanted to A) Kill Pinhead and B) Write another Harry D'amour story because who doesn't want their own version of Harry Dresden?
Hey there! Sorry to bother you, but are you a fan of the Dresden Files? I haven't been able to read any of the books since Summer's Knight was new, sadly, and was wondering if I should seek out the rest of the books. Are they worth it?
What's especially interesting in regards to the Scarlet Gospel is that there's also two Clive Barker written graphic novels that serve as sequels to Hellraise 1 and 2 and those are also set in cartoon hell, so I guess it's double true that the gist of the appeal has been missed.
In fact in those novels and uh, spoilers I guess,
Kirsty from the first movie replaces Pinhead in hell and allows his soul (a first world war solider) to pass on, becoming the new pinhead in the process. This makes the idiots complaining about a lady pinhead doubly wrong because that's just like, the canon of the series now.
They were already wrong. Original Novella "Pinhead" is described as androgynous with a feminine voice.
I love Doug Bradley's portrayal of Pinhead but Jamie Clayton absolutely killed it. Her delivery was just *chef's kiss"
I first watched it when my ex randomly stopped by one night and afterwards they just said "Wow. Extremely kinky, tall, transfem demon lady. Must be your new favorite movie." It was not, and I think they didn't go nearly far enough with the concepts, but it did make me excited to watch the original.
I was so excited to hear your opinion about the sacrifice ticking-clock that I completely forgot about assholes on the internet.
Scarlet Gospels was so very strange for Cenobite Lore, I basically forgot it as soon as I put it down
Hey wanna know a funny? Pinhead is a killer in the game Dead By Daylight, and one of his abilities is teleporting to a survivor who tries to open the box and says "you opened the box. I came." But before a patch he'd teleport mid-sentence, so from a survivor's perspective he just teleports to you and goes "I came"
It was ok. Not crazy about the pins being actual pins instead of nails though. As you said - cenobites too pretty. 3/5
Made me re-read the book though. It still holds up.
Loved the experience of the movie. I watched it with headphones and they did amazing stuff with the sound effects. Basically horror asmr.
I feel like mainstream media and such inherently run away from kinky ideas and bdsm style stuff, and body horror of this type.(not that I think bdsm is about killing people with torture)
it just constantly seems like mainstream media CONSISTENTLY pushes against sex stuff, and kink, even if it'd be extremely profitable. even if its the inherent concept to a particular story, they just DO NOT like that kind of stuff. they simply WON'T DO IT if they could help it, and whenever visionaries bring it in, mainstream media will parade it like it's amazing, but then shortly after, it will shuffly it into the back of the closet. and if it was successful enough to make a bunch of money, they'll just.. remake a new sanitized version to attempt to "capture the magic" again even though that is LITERALLY not how that works.
it's like seeing someone read an algebraic equation, say its amazing, and then wiping it off the board. then they start beating their head into the board to try and make something similar, when.... that's just not how it works?? and it just puts blood on the chalk board that they''ll have to clean up later. it's just really stupid is my point.