WOW!!! I know I say this all the time, but really - WOW!!! I'm blown away by the response. I wish I had the time to read and respond to every comment. Needless to say, we will do more videos on fuel. In the meantime, here is a link to a video I did on Top Tier fuels: ua-cam.com/video/zyy7ZekQ8do/v-deo.html
Very much looking forward to it. Could questions: 1. Can you do a top tier side by side test of regular vs premium to see the additives? 2. Previous video recommended PEA additives. Like Techron. Can you show whether it’s just detergent or also a lubricant? Thanks!!
I live in a rural area. We have 5 gas stations in our 2 small towns. Chevron, shell, 76, speedy mart, and circle K. Guess what? The same fuel truck delivers to all 5 on the same day.
Can using a premium fuel in a regular 87 octane car damaged the vehicle? My car says to use regular fuel only but I would like to use fuel with the friction modifier in it which is only in premium by me it seems.
40 year USA fuel hauler here... it is the additive pkg added to gas at the loading rack when tanker trucks are being loaded that makes a fuel "top tier" or "generic". Some name brand gas, such as Shell, Exxon, etc have their own proprietery additives, BUT the base gasoline and ethanol blend is the same liquid across all brands. The additive recipe determines the difference. By Fed rule, all gas must have detergent additives, so, even the lowly no name gas station or big box stores that have gas are selling the same base gasoline as a name branded stations, just the no names use generic additives and the blend recipe is probably lower in additives than a name brand. Also, most all gas stations have a tank for regular gas, like 87 octane, and a tank for premium gas, like 93 octane. All the choices in octane inbetween 87 and 93 are blended at the station by the pump. For instance, 89 octane Plus is 70% reg 87 and 30% premium 93. You are getting what you are paying for...
I agree 100%, I worked at a refinery (Canada) for 8 years as Instrumentation supervisor and yes all additives were added at the truck loading terminal. Every brand, Shell/Esso etc had their own additive tanks at the terminal which was added (through metering for precise amounts) to the tanker load as required. Does that happen at remote tank farms/terminals that have their fuel piped in, that's anyone's guess but I would say yes.
If they have a loading rack for the trucks it is done at the rack. The raw, or base gasolines get piped to storage tanks, regular, and premium base gas, then to the rack to load trucks where at the rack the additive blenders and ethanol blending equipment is there. When I say base gas I mean for example, where I am at, the 87 regular pump fuel is a 10% ethanol fuel. So, the base gasoline is actually 83 octane, and the 10% ethanol brings it up to 87. Prem is a 91 oct base, the eth brings up to 93, plus the either top tier or generic additives, or proprietery name brand additives all go in at the rack next to the truck.
@@catdaddy3728 Yes of course. Each brands additives are injected into the line before the metering stations. Like I said I was in charge of the all of instrumentation in the plant and facilities, so I know how these systems were designed. Not to mention I worked designing refineries(engineering) for a number of years.
@@MrApplesaucestuff If you're in the USA I can't answer that because I don't know what the minimum requirements are by law in the USA. In Canada all gasoline is required to have those additives, but you may get more in the 93 for some brands.
Hey Lake…where can we find a “ranking” of fuel brands from a premium additive perspective? What about upper cylinder lubricants? I’m a YES for a fuel video…
My C5 Corvette drank nothing but Shell V-Power 93 its entire 190k mile life in stock internals. I went to do a cam and heads swap for more hp and found that my cross hatching on my cylinder walls looked brand new, and almost zero carbon build up anywhere. Very pleased.
I have a 2010 Camaro SS with 225,000 miles and just replaced all gaskets, lifters, springs, timing chain, and cam. The cylinders looked like they had barely been run so back together it went and we're still rolling like the car is new. The cars entire life I've always used full synthetic oil and premium fuel, typically same brand unless I'm traveling.
@ridingstuffed Allthough I might need one or perhaps new valve covers. I had to delete the valve cover baffling in order to fit my BTR shaft rockers. Now it burns oil. Oh well.
@@ChefofWar33 it's amazing how much oil it prevents from going back into intake ( about a shot glass every 2k miles) once I've seen how effective they are , putting them on all my vehicles from now on.
Worked for the Big Pecten for almost 29 years. Had the privilege to tour both the fuel blending facilities at Deer Park, and the research center on hwy 6 on the west side of Houston. Engineers at the Westhollow facility said the absolute BEST results they have seen in gasoline performance vs engine wear was a rotation of the brand of fuel that you buy. He said, "one fill up of Shell, next fill up ExxonMobil, next fill up Chevron, next fill up Phillips 66, next fill up Valero. Use ONLY top tier brands. They run cars on 24 hour chassis dyno's for months at a time under extreme hot, cold and everything in between.
I’m an underground storage tank installer, and I’d never ever get fuel from a Phillips 66. Dirtiest and least maintained fuel systems that I’ve ever seen. Lots of water in them too because they leak badly but don’t bother to fix them until EPA gets involved and threaten to shut them down.
Most us smarter car ppl running *top tier rated fuel* esp in modern GTDI engines. My excellent '22 Edge ST AWD only gets *89 midgrade* top tier rated fuel since new along w/Pennzoil Ultra Platinum/Fram Ultra filter every 5k mis. Runs/drives phenomenal! 💯
I know that on my high compression, tuned high boost Jag F-Type, Shell has the lowest number of "knock events" on the knock counter, and the least "timing pulls". Strangely Mobil and Exxon fuels were among the worst. I've even seen 93 that performed no better than 87..... Leading to a 3000 RPM knock event related limit.
That why shell gas station is one of my favorite gas station since it is a top tier. Chevron will be my second choice. Exxonmobil but cost alittle more . Walmart and HEB are the worst gas station it is low tier
A fuel brand comparison vs piston ring wear would be really helpful in furthering this topic. Many thanks, I’ve learned a lot from listening to your tips.
@themotoroilgeek Would be alot of work, but have the fuel injector for each 2 cylinders (V8) fed by a different fuel. This way, 4 different brands are tested with loads, fuel rate and ignition/timing being exactly the same.
Here in Germany we have 100 and 102 RON (~96 to 97 in the USA). Been using only that on my car for nearly 25 years. Recently I sent my injectors to get them cleaned and they told me they basically didn't need cleaning, spray pattern, etc all almost perfect, except one, which was 99.9% good. 30 year old injectors that have never been taken out of the car before. That fuel does help.
I have seen the same thing here in Australia with premium fuels, we have two premiums, 95 ron which no one buys, 98 which a lot of people use, and the two regular options which is straight petrol at 91 ron and E10 at 94-96 ron depending on petrol station claims. With cars that have used 98 almost exclusively, the fuel systems are pristine, where the regular fuels leave a bright red/orange fine smoky dust coating that is also abrasive to fuel pump rotors, brushes and comutators and injector pintles and seats. My personal experience with injector cleaning is that it is a no no for injectors run on regular as they always leak on heat soak after cleaning, resulting is a hot engine flooding upon restart. This is because the seats and pintles are pitted and eroded, the dusty deposits is what kept the injectors from leaking before service. So I generally never have them serviced, I just replace them with good used ones that have not been serviced but test good, or just brand new OEM ones (no after market). Injectors that ran on premium seldom need servicing, and if they are, leaking afterwards is much less common.
Interesting what you mentioned about fuel quality and how it destroyed injectors (and fuel pomps). The Euro 95 is about the same as 89 octane in N. America, while the European 98 is the equivalent of 92 octane. I remember a few gas stations like Sunoco, Petro Canada, used to sell 94 octane in Ontario. In my motorcycle days when we used Wiseco high compression pistons, bigger valves, aftermarket cams the 91 was a minimum requirement for street use and mostly 94 octane fuel was used for modes engines. Also most stations sell 91-92 Super without added ethanol, while some still add "up to 10% content". Maybe it would be worth to add topic of ethanol vs no ethanol fuel, and E85 (used extensively in Brasil), while we talk about fuel. And, two years ago someone dropped to my friend's garage an old Lexus which was sitting for a decade untouched. The internals of the half empty fuel tank basically showed how corrosive the fuel is, once left inside the tank - the fuel pomp was death, plastics were falling apart once touched and metal pieces were covered by thick layer of rust. The fuel itself had unbelievable smell, more like acid than gasoline, although it still burned well when we took a sample. I always tell people to use up all the gas, drain carburators in their lawnmowers, generators because left over fuel causes no start problems later on.
@@pliedtka I use ethanol-free 93 octane fuel in machines that may sit for a period of time. It has a 2 year shelf life. My generator may sit for 6 months, my ATV, about the same. My 1973 Mustang never had ethanol tainted fuel.
@@TheBandit7613 And I use whatever I can get at the local Coop without any concerns (as long as it's not over a year or two old. Haven't worn out an engine either. One had 315k before I sold it. Running strong. Never had any injector work done on it.
This validates why I always put Shell 93 octane in my 2022 Honda Accord Sport Special Edition, from my very first fill up when the car was new, to the present day. Yeah it's more expensive but my car runs so much smoother and I definitely get better performance. The extra expense is totally worth it.
High rev japanese motors with tighter tolerances = even more important I always use chevron 91 in my Z…. Although we have a no name brand station in town that claims it’s “ethenol free” - have tried a few tanks as well… I’m N/A so no real world power or performance difference between the two so I’ll stick to chevron for now
Definitely a 'Yes' for a fuel video. This is interesting from what comes out of a lab, but we all know in the real world, what you actually buy at the pump, and what it says it is, aren't necessarily the same thing. It would be interesting to see tests from a few samples taken from a few different stations (i.e. - not fuel samples provided from the Chevron / Shell / Valero company rep, but actual gas stations) to see what you actually get, and if it makes a difference.
I've run Shell V-Power Premium in my newly built 2.5L boxer since new. So glad to see the data behind the friction modifier. I got 470,000km out of the first engine and it was still going strong when I got this rebuilt one. So I want more than half a million out of this one!
@@insanelywicked873 Replaced, but yes. I don't know of many out there who still have a Subaru EJ20 that saw more than half a million, so it was time. The rest of the car has been rebuilt and re-engineered too, which was the plan all along. I'm not a fan of the new computers with wheels.
@insanelywicked873 At that mileage, yes. Just because it's "going strong" doesn't mean there isn't going to be wear. Plenty of seals, gaskets and bearings are going to be worn out, leaking, or near failing. Better to be proactive than reactive because it'll be cheaper than when you blow a head gasket, piston ring fails, or worse a crankshaft bearing fails.
@@caryg4638 I don't know where you're from but over here it's not up to the owners where the new fuel deliveries are deposited. In fact the owners are rarely ever onsite.
Back in the 90's, Ford had a problem with fuel pump failures. When they pulled the old pump out, they could tell if you consistently used the same brand fuel and what it was, from how the pump failed. Additives affect everything the fuel contacts. Great video Lake.
I worked at Chrysler in mid 90’s. We had exact same problem, but only on diesel pickups. And it was additives from shell gasoline causing all the failures. And it only happened in temps below freezing.
Mostly Taurus's. I was led to believe it had something to do with debris left in tank during manufacturing. Replaced pump and never did clean tank. Lasted ok.
I have a Toyota Camry XSE V6. My owners manual recommends 87. That’s what I use. But I only go to Chevron because I believe their fuel additives are top-notch. So far so good, my V6 hums happily
Just put what is recommended but consider researching what gas stations in your area are certified "Top Tier". It doesn't matter what octane you choose, it will have the additives that meet the Top Tier certification which is the best you can do. I personally don't believe it matters which Top Tier station you go to (there are some caveats) but just save your money and stay with 87. All that the octane rating indicates is the fuel's resistance to pre-ignition or pinging. If you only need 87, then get 87.
They need API standards for fuel. That way we know what fuel to buy based on science and not marketing hype. Maybe in a future video - test wear from different brands of fuel?
They do have standards for fuel. Gasoline has multiple levels of Summer and Winter Blend. Octane, vapor pressure, oxygen and detergent content are all called out. Quick search will bring them up for you.
@@pat8988And I think an even bigger question, how do you know that the "good" fuel you got last week is still good this week since none of these additive formulations are regulated? The old bait and switch.
@@themotoroilgeekwhat about non elthonel 89 octane that's what I run in my 88 Mercury Marquis because it not driven as much as I would like I'm thinking it's better without the elthonel gumming up the works it's been running great so far of course I baby my baby she's like brand new love the car...
You are a hero. There is no way information like this would ever reach the general public if not for you. You would make a great teacher lake your method of explanation is crystal clear and engaging EVERY SINGLE VIDEO
Hey, Lake. If you recall, I'm the guy during a live chat who mentioned lead leaching into a seasoned block resulting in a skewed oil report for this element. The lead level being high even if unleaded fuel and no additives were used. I noticed this pattern a few times over the years which allowed me to draw that conclusion. I used to watch Your Dad race back in the day. I'm a seasoned NHRA Pro-Stock and Competition Eliminator racer from also back in the day. For the past forty years, I've made my living rebuilding engines and restoring Classic Musclecars. Very interested in fuel type and brands and their effect on engine component wear. Keep up the great work and the sharing of your findings and information!
What an absolutely fantastic analysis of the interaction of fuel and engine oil! I would love to see an analysis of the gasoline and which brands have the more premium additives.
Yeah, and how do you know the "good" fuel you got last week is still good this week if we are talking about unregulated additives. How many companies come out with a great product, accumulate a solid customer base and then degrade the product due to cost savings and the customers are none the wiser until one day you realize it's garbage ten years later.
That’s what I was thinking. Many old timers swear by Marvel Mystery oil and I used to run about a cap full every tank or so in my bike. It always ran fine but I don’t have any data to backup a claim that it made the engine run more efficiently or made anything in the fuel system last longer
For 15 years I've been using exclusively V-Power fuels on my cars and have never regretted it. My diesel Q7 exhaust looks brand new at 152000km and never had issues with PDF or EGR so far. I'm not so rich to afford cheap fuels.
Yes... follow up with specific brands of gas, so we could know which USA brands offer the best wear protection... I try to use "Top Tier" gas as much as possible... but know, )as my brother did the tanker blending), they are not all the same..."Top Tier" but proprietary and varies from brand to brand.. From my research it seems Shell is the top of the heap, but not sold in our area... Mobil/Exxon makes lots of claims, but I notice here many of those pumps do not have the "Top Tier" endorsement sticker... The explanation I got was Mobil doesn't monitor independent Mobil station here in the NE area I live, and many are not "Top Tier", but buying through independent suppliers/trucking, and isn't any better than Joe's garage... Marathon seems consistent .... but how good is their "STP" additive package...
Did you actually contact Top Tier? One of my local Mobil stations did not have the stickers, I contacted Top Tier with the address. They informed me that station was definitely selling Top Tier gasoline and made note it was lacking stickers. Within a couple months there were stickers placed.
@@Nilumbra No I did not... and Top Tier would tell you exactly that, as that is the official line...But.... I did speak to my brother, who recently retired, and did the blending from one of the two pipe line terminals in our area... His explanation was... Mobil is supposed to be Top Tier... but there is no longer any oversight in our area, as Mobil doe not have an admin here.... Many of the independently owned stations carry the the Mobil name... but their is nothing to stop them from buying from independent haulers at a reduced cost... who can load generic gasoline with minimal required additives... Increasing the stations margins... As a possible unstated disclaimer they may not fly the Top Tier banner on the pumps, to avoid conflict if checked... I would like Top Tier to come to our area and police a little... at any rate... in the interim... I'm buying elsewhere when I can... especially it is often the same price at Marathon, or Sunoco... and much cheaper at Costco... even than generic... Scams everywhere these days... Buyer Beware..
SoCal resident here running M112 and M113K Mercedes engines. Worn down motor mounts turned out to be a great test environment to determine comparative fuel octane levels from different brands, despite the fact that all Los Angeles gets its fuel from only a couple refineries. Least to most vibrations were in this order: Vpower, followed by Tekron, Synergy, arko, unitd and Krklnd. The latter 2 shook the engines a great deal, triggering knock sensors. Test engines had proper compression, new plugs, coils and injectors, no burnt valves or loose bearings on upper and bottom end inspection.
@@abel4776 Clearly I did not make a general statement about Mobil products. I was referring to gasoline. I am fine using Mobil 1 0w-40 or Pnz Platinum Euro 0w-40 in their current formulations. That said LM Synthoil 0w-40 has managed to stay stable for longer and engines were quieter for longer (anecdotal based on my 2 vehicles). How’s your oil consumption?
@@abel4776 congrats. Do this: 1. 3000 mile oil changes using good oil and either Mann or Hengst filters. 2. Make sure to drain oil from BOTH drain bolts, your car has two. 3. Transmission fluid change every 30k with new filter and gasket. 4. When replacing brake pads&rotors, always deactivate the SBC system using a scan tool with Mercedes-specific software. Do NOT work on brakes while system is pressurized-that will reduce the life span of SBC components and brake feel will be inadequate. If you’re having a mechanic do the work make sure they are using this method-not like a standard car. 5. Consider a supercharger oil change before 100k miles on the odometer. There are writeups how to do it, and it’s a bit cumbersome, but totally worth it if yours is in a good shape. 6. Air shocks are utter garbage. Let me know when you’re about to lose your patience with them. I’ll recommend a coilover mod. 7. Have fun, and none of that small supercharger pulley nonsense. Unless you bought two E55s and you like the sound of metal parts popping under hood on WOT.
@@linvesel Advice much appreciated. I bought BenzNinja's STAR SDS system, so I should be prep'ed for brakes. You said Air Shocks (AIRMATIC), but do you also mean the Hydraulic system (ABC), which I have? So far I like it, no issues, do you recommend swapping that with coil overs?
Makes a ton of sense as my understanding of the original purpose of leaded fuel was to help reduce engine wear. When the lead was eliminated, the automotive industry had a new problem they needed to solve. However, what i assumed was that if a fuel was classified as top tier fuel, it would have to meet a certain standard. What I didn’t realize was the fuel grade impacts engine wear because they have different levels of friction modifiers. Thanks for this video because I had always used premium fuel on my 2001 xterra since new until i reached 285k to now at 336k. Engine is fine but guess i’ll go back to premium gas
How fascinating! Wasn’t expecting that large of a difference. I hope to see a future video comparing different fuel brands and grades. I’m also curious if/how differences between summer and winter fuel blends impacts these tests.
WOW, I never knew that about the fuel. I always used, Amzoil 100% synthetic oil, because it was the best oil out there, BUT, I never knew about how the choice of my gasoline WILL affect the engine wear too in my car, WOW SIMPIY AMAZING!!! THANK YOU FOR THAT INFORMATION!
A few things I would like to comment on. 1. I have been preaching this for years to family and friend's and actually had no proof till now. So Thank You for this information. 2. The key here folks is "Premium" Fuel. Even if you go to a "Top Tier" gas station not all Top Tier fuels are created equal. 3. Now the question is, "Which Top Tier Fuels" use these anti wear additives, or are they required for all top tier premium fuels? 4. Different brands have different additive packs as mentioned. In my area on the West Coast of the USA Shell and Chevron are the only 2 brands I know of that have these additives in their Premium fuel. I switch between the 2 brands throughout the year because each brand being used leaves different kinds of deposits. By switching brands (Shell, Chevron for me) I believe I will be getting the best or cleanest engine possible. They kinda counteract each other is my theory. 5. Statistically the average American family keeps their "new" car 3-4 yrs and then moves on to another vehicle. So with this said, these top tier premium fuels and oils may not be used. Why would you put top tier anything in a car that you only plan on keeping a couple of years? So when you are buying a used car even with low miles, its possible it may have more than average wear inside the engine. These are all factors that are interesting to me. Additionally, with the push to EV's I am actually surprised there is such a focus still on milking out as much MPG's and wear in combustion engines. I am just grateful the manufactures are doing these innovations still. Not to mock EV's but the average purchase price of a new gas powered car is around $45k, the average EV sold is $62k, I don't know about you, I can't afford a $62k car, nor do I want that rolling mortgage anyway. People pushing the EV movement just don't consider that people can't afford that technology at this time. Its not right to push these super expensive cars and leave the folks that work hard but may not earn enough to afford an EV with a decent range. These are facts that need to be considered. Very pleased with this video and hope for a follow up on Fuel quality, additives and the like. Very informative and very interesting. Thank You.
Bolt EUV's are in the $20k's to low $30k's brand new and have a $7500 tax incentive. Even a brand new Tesla Model 3 long range rwd is $30k. Prices have come down a lot, might keep dropping for a little while. Edit: Make that $42k for the Model 3, didn't see the check box that deducts the tax credit and estimated $1k/yr gas savings over 5 years automatically from the total price.
This may be true but it's also may depend on region. I have yet to see a new Tesla long range anywhere near $30k and many of those federal discounts don't apply to everyone. Even a Nissan Leaf is near $40k in my area and that has a range of about 120-150 miles. Where not long ago i could buy lets say a VW Passat TDI for $25k and go 800 miles on ta tank of gas. So it just depends on how you look at things.@@GrandPrix46
I spoke with my sister's Toyota mechanic while visiting Sacramento earlier this summer. He loves his Tesla Y, but uses first gen. Prius as daily driver. I understand that where climate conditions and infrastructure allows the EVs eventually will displace IC engine, but there are many regions where the regular car powered by IC will stay. I can't imagine myself doing the trip from Eastern Ontario in a EV: I did over 6k miles in 3 weeks time. I know a very few European countries have like Norway have great EV infrastructure in the cities, but there are places where EV just go because of weather and sparse EV infrastructure. As for now America and most Europe is not ready for EVs.
@@pliedtka you bring up some very valid points and I'm appreciative that your civil about your response and not being rude or mean like some people have been. Another problem that faces my community is apartment complexes we don't have a lot of them here cuz I'm in a rural area but we have about 8 to 10 apartment complexes in my area none of which have charging stations for EV's as of today. So most people that I know that live in the apartments they drive over to the local mall and plug in at a Tesla charging station and again there's only four of those charging stations that are local mall and some people have to wait up to 2 hours to charge your vehicle and that's assuming that the charging stations are working correctly because there's so many people trying to get their cars charged that you have to wait in an extremely long line on certain days. I think the whole idea of an electric vehicle is a good one I do but it's in its infant stages still and there's a lot of problems to make it affordable for the masses and to make it convenient for people to drive long distances and that time just is probably not for another 10 to 15 years away if not longer realistically speaking. But for some people like I said I don't drive that much so I drive a Volkswagen Golf and I get gas in it maybe once a month and I drive almost 500 miles on a tank of gas. So how is it bettering the planet for me to sell my golf and buy an EV? Honestly I just don't think it would help in any way. In some cases it just makes no sense but in other markets in other circumstances EV's make complete sense. It's just these people need to understand that just because some people live in a city where there's a lot of charging stations there's a lot of availability and maybe prices are lower for such reason doesn't mean Nationwide it's the same.. or globally is the same for everyone else.
Cam using fuel additives supplant using higher octane and/or brand specific fuels to achieve the same improved wear characteristics? This is my favorite new channel.
Or can starting off by using higher quality oil that's going to be diluted by gasoline already be the answer? What oil were they using in those test study showed? Were they already using a poor performing oil so they clearly see the change in the fuel performance?
Thanks Lake... I own 2 cars... a Subaru 2.5l and a Jaguar 5.0l. What I have learned from you is that I abuse the Subaru much more with cold starts/short trips in everyday use, while the Jaguar is usually taken out on the weekends for longer highway speed runs where the engine gets up to temp every time I use it. I checked the dipstick on the Subaru, and I could smell the fuel in the oil. I now try harder to give the Subaru more runs on the highway when possible, and I am religious about oil changes on both cars with shorter intervals. The videos you have been putting out (including the Porsche ones) have really been educational compared to all of the marketing and internet expert advice.
Part of the problem with the Subaru is the direct injection. We have an Ascent with a 2.4 turbo and fuel dilution with 4k OCI’s have been over 5% (unofficially 9% when I inquired from OAI). This is using premium and my wife’s primary vehicle. She idles it when it’s cold for 5-10min and then drives for about 15-20min to work.
If you can smell gasoline in the oil, that's a sign of fuel injectors leaking. I would hook up my scanner and start checking the sensor ECT ECT on down the line. No Italian tuneup will work. I do agree that using Techron fuel treatment will work. Even though I buy fuel with Techron already. That doesn't mean all gas stations have It added. So I do treat my gas every once in a while. My 23 year old Chevy still runs on the same ole injectors. I do own a scanner to see how my fuel trims are doing. Also the same ole cat's. I quit using K/N filters many years ago after discovering my intake manifold caked with fine dust/oil. I cleaned my intake and went back to regular filters and keep them changed out.
@@2nickles647 that’s simply untrue with direct injection only engines nowadays. Look into Honda 1.5 turbo and Subaru 2.4 turbo oil analysis’s. It’s not uncommon to see very high fuel dilution, especially in cold environments. I’ve done oil analysis’s on my Subaru Ascent since new and it’s always been high (4k OCI’s and 91 only), no leaky injector or anything wrong with the vehicle. It’s just the nature of the engine sadly. Though even with that fuel dilution (referring to Subaru 2.4 turbo), I’ve seen many people go way beyond 6k OCI’s, a lot more idle time than we do with low quality oil and using 87 octane with way more miles than we have that have never had an engine issue.
I used shells 93 + nitro for 12 years on my 03 teggy that I bought at 116k miles. Got it to 230k miles before I sold it. Still ran fine. Also changed oil every 4k miles. Maintenance is KING.
Oil, fuel, additives, etc. I’ve driven mostly Hondas and Toyotas with 87 octane and cheap oil and they all go over 300k miles without major repairs. I love this channel and geek out like the rest of us, but so much of getting a car to last long is buying the right one to begin with. Especially if buying used. My 04 super duty with the 5.4 2 valve also has 240k and still runs like new, original everything except the alternator. Cumberland farms gas, although I do do the oil changes with good oil and filter, every 3k miles max. Insanely of around town start/atop, towing hauling. Problem is, not sure I trust any of the new trucks anymore to last that long without major repairs.
Yes, I agree with you on vehicle brand. I buy and like the Honda brand. I think there might be a difference today as opposed to 2004 model vehicles in that today's anti pollution standards have the exhaust is recirculated back through the engine to be reburned which makes for a carbon build up issue. I think this will shorten the life span of many new vehicles today.
Yes Lake, we ALL want fuel testing ! The motorcycle I ride and dragrace very often gets Shell 95+% of the time. Levels of ethanol content would be great to see, but as thorough as you are Im sure that would be done. Thanks Motor Oil Geek !
There is no Top Tier 93 here, only 91. I take good care of my CX-5 Turbo too, though I have 80 times fewer miles on mine. Yours has to be the highest mileage Mazda Skyactiv 2.5 I've seen to date! I use Pennzoil UP 5W-30.
I use 91 in all my motors. From my lawn mower motorcycle to my car. Mostly to avoid the corn Ethenol. Though, they do rip everyone off because the use shared hoses and pumps. So for the first few liters you are paying premium and getting whatever cheap swill the previous customer pumped.
I had an engine machinist tell me something similar to this when I was a kid. The machinist built drag car engines along with regular vehicle engines. Im sure he learned alot from that.
Just a friendly reminder that this video is not about octane ratings. More about the additive packages which in the US, is a certification called "Top Tier".
I agree. I worked in auto parts and people that operated their vehicle as cheaply as possible, be it fuel or cheap components they would experience more frequent trips to see me in the parts store. Put less in get less out......
Top tier is about detergents, not anti wear additives. That being said, he never mentions that octane has anything to do with wear either. It's anti wear additives, generally you are looking for Shell or BP.
@@craigfin3222 It's not the octane, its the additive package. In the US the higher octane fuels come with a better additive package. So, while you're wasting your money on higher than required octane, you still get a bit of a win on the additive package.
It was one thing when for many years premium was 20 cents a gallon more than regular but now that it's a dollar a gallon more, there's no way I'm paying it. I don't understand how they can justify charging a dollar a gallon more for premium. You can buy a good quality fuel additive instead of buying premium fuel and still come out quite a bit ahead, especially if you buy it in bulk.
I think there is some confusion over the word “premium”. Not 100% sure but I think Lake means “premium quality” not “high octane from the premium pump”. In other words here in Colorado I can buy premium fuel that is only 85 octane.
@@dac7046 You have a good point there. I really like Lake's content but imho he really should be more careful about his wording and the video clips he shows in relation to those words. I was recently watching another video of his in which he was discussing fuel system treatments and stressed that you should get one which contains polyether amine. As he is saying this, he shows a clip of someone picking up a bottle of Super Tech fuel injector cleaner, which suggests it contains said ingredient but doesn't.
Watched this video when it was first posted and decided to do my own unscientific experiments, with undeniable (family member confirmations) results.... Vehicle #1: low-mileage 2016 Honda CRV, always annoyingly buzzy, always used low-octane top-tier gas and have never experienced knocking. We just finished running a full tank of the high-octane V-power through it after watching this MOG video and I could instantly tell the difference in vibration and it seemed to get smoother as it went through the tank, and gas mileage improved slightly throughout. Went back to using a low-octane top tier gas again and, while still smoother than before, was buzzier than with the V-power. Now, I have to decide whether the additional expense is worth it. I might just use the V-power on occasion. Vehicle #2: 1992 Lexus SC400 w/150k miles, always requires premium. Filled with V-power on a 2/3 empty tank and noticed lower vibrations immediately. Crazy. (original motor mounts are probably a factor) Vehicles #3-#4 to follow (25-yo 2UZ-FE V8 and 12-yo 2GR-FE V6, both with original mounts) Note: all fuels used have been E10, incl the premium Shell V-power.
Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, and Shell V-Power Nitro+ is my combination of oil, and fuel used! Definitely a fantastic combination from the information you've shared Lake, thank you for all that you do! Cheers!
In our shop, we’re switching 6 customers from Pennzoil to Valvoline’s Clean and Restore full synthetic engine oil. All of these vehicles have over 130,000 miles. We’re tracking oil consumption and engine performance. I’m looking forward to seeing the results of our little in-shop experiment.
@jamram9924 careful with the first oil change with that Valvoline Restore and Protect. Individual's cutting open oil filters are discovering a lot of sludge etc. in the oil filter after the first 1,000 miles or so. Depending on how the vehicle has been maintained of course, good luck with your experiment's!
@@orionschroeder9401 These are regularly maintained vehicles. We just want to determine if the change from Pennzoil Full Synthetic to Valvoline Clean and Restore will make a noticeable difference.
All those fancy brand names don't mean none. Just buy the grade you are looking for as cheaply as you can. Stock cars aren't anywhere near as sensitive as high power engines. I'm not talkin' about these little hatchbacks with "cold air intakes" Or cleetuses 3" exhaust on his drunkenly driven ram 2500hd. Most people don't wanna hear this, but most cars are stock; And thats perfectly fine, but they don't need a regimen of brand names and propoganda 😂
@@matthiasgrunwald895 The difference between and e10 and e5 fuel is almost nil. Both concentrations are enough to provide decent cleaning for intake valves on traditional port injected engines which is a very good thing. Once you get over e10 you're possible exposing your vehicle fuel system to issues if it wasn't designed for e15 fuel. That extra ethanol can damage rubber and plastic parts in the fuel system. I'd say away from that e15 and high levels on any car not made within the past 5-7 years.
@@matthiasgrunwald895E0 is what I've used for years. Any ethanol blend in my small engines are the carbs, fuel primers, and lines. In my civic I get better fuel economy with E0 over E10, enough to pay the extra cost of E0. Ethanol is trash unless its E85 and you're using it for boosted or high compression engine and need the cheap high octane.
Same other then the oil change interval. Lets see if my extended oil changes will bite me in the butt one day. I find it a waste to change full synthetic so soon.
@@АлакПатрова True, you should NEVER use fuel containing ethanol in it with small engines found in the products you mention like lawn mowers, chain saws, ect. It WILL damage those carb systems. e5 or e10 won't cause damage to any car fuel system made after 1990. The problem for most people in the USA today is that you can almost never find e0 fuel in most parts of the country, and if you can find it, usually it is much more expensive to buy compared with e5/10 fuel.
Two stroke oils? I have put a little two stroke oil in all my 4 stroke lawn equipment for years now. It’s great to keep all the rubber components in the carburettor and fuel lines in good condition. Since I have run it in my 4 stroke Honda brush cutter I have not replaced the mixture diaphragm.
@@BrianNC81 Search around the LS forums. A fellow put a lot of time and effort into adding two stroke oil to the gas of his LS truck engine. IIR he came up with the correct ratio for a 4 stroke engine.
@@nucleargrizzly1776 any ratio is the right ratio if your main jets are fat enough lol, ive been running 100-1with #72 jets on my 54 ford, im too cheap to buy that lead substitute crap, and a gallon of pennsoil premium marine 2 cycle is 20 bucks! i just hope it actually does something for the un-hardened valve seats
I only use Shell V power and Chevron Supreme in my 2 vehicles that use premium. Had the timing chain done on my Range Rover BMW engine and the mechanic said it was the CLEANEST ENGINE he’d EVER SEEN and he’d seen millions plural he figured. So thanks dad for the advice- almost more important than the best oil is the best ⛽️
I find this video very informative. In the past I’ve had bad luck with shell fuel. The shop I work at we actually did a test on various different brand of fuels, all testing was done on a bone stock 2011 coyote mustang, we were tuning the engine to optimize power and performance. We found shell fuel to be by far the worst fuel for hp. The best I can remember it was spark knocking back enough we had to take 4 degrees of timing out to calm it down. We went to a different shell station to get fuel and try again thinking it was bad 93 octane fuel, and was rewarded with the same result. Our results showed qt and racetrac brand fuels to make the most hp.
Ive suspected this all along and have questioned all who say if your car can run on 87 theres no need to run mid grade or higher. Ive always said and use mid and premium for the very reason they have more additives, cleaners etc., and that alone justifies using them and i will continue to do so.
It has been my understanding that a premium brand in the USA would have additives in all of the octane levels (unlike euro brands). I would be vey interested to see a dedicated video exploring this deeper.
Can you do a comparison of different "brands" of fuel.. like Costco vs Shell vs Chevron. Specifically showing how much detergents and anti friction additives are in each.
Everyone has their engine oil preference or dislikes based on their own experience. I was told by an old-time mechanic that he would never use a specific brand of oil because in his experience that brand had a real problem with leaving sludge and goops. It was from the Motor Oil Geeks videos with quantitative data where I felt good in telling him that things had changed. Now you open the fuel can of worms! Fuel. Gasolines are different all over the country in the USA, and the fuels in Europe are different than that as well as in Asia. Add to this that people today don't always use the same brand of fuel in their car, and thus end up with quite the variety of fuels in their tanks. Thanks for opening this can of worms, but at least it is based on factual data. Thanks Lake
Fascinating report. Some anecdotal evidence: in my 2005 Mustang GT, I use mostly Chevron or Shell in only the mid-octane (89 or so) range, but I add Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant/Fuel Injector Cleaner to EVERY tank. And yeah, I thought of it as "snake oil" originally, but I'm up to 231,000 miles so far (bought it at 22,000), the car runs well, does not burn any measurable amount of oil, and still gets 25 mpg on the highway. Just my experience.
It has been well documented by independent testing that fuel / oil companies do not always add any, or the correct amount of lubricant additives required by law since the reduction of sulphur in fuels. For decades, even before the reduction of sulphur, some farmers & others have added standard (mower) type 2 stroke oil to diesel fuel. From personal testing I've found that adding standard (mower) type 2 stroke oil at 1 ml per litre of fuel to petrol / gasoline gives an increase in power / economy. Using more oil than 1 ml per litre of fuel decreases the power / economy. This is ok for older engines, say pre the year 2000. For later model petrol / gasoline engines I would advise the use of a Polybutene Ashless Lubricant. Usually at around 1 ml per litre of fuel or slightly less. For diesel engines up to 2007 standard (mower) type 2 stroke oil has been used & tested at a 200:1 ratio. (Not ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 or newer systems) For diesel engines after 2007 a Polybutene Ashless Lubricant can be used. Here is another product, PlanetSafe Fuel Treatments. Diesel Lubricant Comparisons | HFRR Test Wear Scar Comparisons PlanetSafe Fuel Treatments. Below are test results for other diesel fuel lubricants. Make sure any lubricant you use is compatible to your engine. I would not use any product listed below that increases wear. DIESEL FUEL LUBRICITY ADDITIVES STUDY RESULTS By Arlen Spicer August 2007 Copyright The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer RESULTS In Order Of Performance: 1) 2% REG SoyPower bio-diesel HFRR 221, 415 micron improvement. 50:1 ratio of baseline fuel to 100% biodiesel 66.56 oz. of 100% biodiesel per 26 gallons of diesel fuel Price: market value 2) Opti-Lube XPD Multi-purpose + anti-gel Cetane Improver, Demulsifier HFRR 317, 319 micron improvement. 256:1 ratio 13 oz/tank $4.35/tank 3) FPPF RV, Bus, SUV Diesel/Gas Fuel Treatment Gas and Diesel Cetane improver, Emulsifier HFRR 439, 197 micron improvement 640:1 ratio 5.2 oz/tank $2.60/tank 4) Opti-Lube Summer Blend Multi-purpose Demulsifier HFRR 447, 189 micron improvement 3000:1 ratio 1.11 oz/tank $0.68/tank 5) Opti-Lube Winter Blend Muti-purpose + anti-gel Cetane improver HFRR 461, 175 micron improvement 512:1 ratio 6.5 oz/tank $3.65/tank - 5 - August, 2007 Copyright The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer 6) Schaeffer Diesel Treat 2000 Multi-purpose + anti-gel Cetane improver, Emulsifier, bio-diesel compatible HFRR 470, 166 micron improvement 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.87/tank 7) Super Tech Outboard 2-Cycle TC-W3 Engine Oil Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 or newer systems) HFRR 474, 162 micron improvement 200:1 ratio 16.64 oz/tank $1.09/tank 8) Stanadyne Lubricity Formula Lubricity Only Demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 479, 157 micron improvement 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.00/tank 9) Amsoil Diesel Concentrate Multi-purpose Demulsifier, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 488, 148 micron improvement 640:1 ratio 5.2 oz/tank $2.16/tank 10) Power Service Diesel Kleen + Cetane Boost Multi-purpose Cetane improver, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 575, 61 micron improvement 400:1 ratio 8.32 oz/tank $1.58/tank - 6 - August, 2007 Copyright The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer 11) Howe’s Meaner Power Kleaner Multi-purpose Alcohol free HFRR 586, 50 micron improvement 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.36/tank 12) Stanadyne Performance Formula Multi-purpose + anti-gel Cetane improver, Demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 603, 33 micron improvement 480:1 ratio 6.9 oz/tank $4.35/tank 13) Used Motor Oil, Shell Rotella T 15W-40, 5,000 miles used. Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage systems) HFRR 634, 2 micron improvement (statistically insignificant change) 200:1 ratio 16.64 oz/tank price: $0.00 14) Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant Gas or Diesel HFRR 641, 5 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change) 427:1 ratio 7.8 oz/tank $2.65/tank 15) B1000 Diesel Fuel Conditioner by Milligan Biotech Multi-purpose, canola oil based additive HFRR 644, 8 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change) 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $2.67/tank - 7 - August, 2007 Copyright The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer 16) FPPF Lubricity Plus Fuel Power Multi-purpose + anti-gel Emulsifier, alcohol free HFRR 675, 39 microns worse than baseline fuel 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.12/tank 17) Marvel Mystery Oil Gas, Oil and Diesel fuel additive (NOT ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 and newer systems) HFRR 678, 42 microns worse than baseline fuel. 320:1 ratio 10.4 oz/tank $3.22/tank 18) ValvTect Diesel Guard Heavy Duty/Marine Diesel Fuel Additive Multi-purpose Cetane improver, Emulsifier, alcohol free HFRR 696, 60 microns worse than baseline fuel 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $2.38/tank 19) Primrose Power Blend 2003 Multi-purpose Cetane boost, bio-diesel compatible, Emulsifier HFRR 711, 75 microns worse than baseline 1066:1 ratio 3.12 oz/tank $1.39/tank CONCLUSIONS: Products 1 through 4 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 460 or better. This meets the strictest requirements requested by the Engine Manufacturers Association. Products 1 through 9 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 520 or better, meeting the U.S. diesel fuel requirements for maximum wear scar in a commercially available diesel fuel. - 8 - August, 2007
I’d love to see a fuel comparison or fuel specific video. There’s a lot of speculation online, but no real data. I’d especially like to see if certain octanes or brands help minimize carbon build up on direct injection engines.
Fascinating! I’ve always looked at octane and said no point in premium in most engines unless spark advance or turbo boost is controlled by knock sensor; no difference in energy content in the gas (I do not use gasohol). This REALLY begs for a comparison of anti-wear additives in premium fuels. Thanks.
So what if you add 2 stroke synthetic oil in gas for 4 stroke engine? Will it act as friction modifier? And for what should I look in fuel additives for gas and diesel fuel? Thanks a lot! Great video as always!
Bob is the oil guy forum had many threads over the years. One guy put 2.5 oz of pure acetone per 10 gallons of fuel and made note of the results. I still use the formula for long road trips. Atomizes the fuel better and more mileage, (proven results) If course adding toulene or xylene to bump up octane but only if you can find it cheap enough or else the cost per gallon makes no sense.
It has been well documented by independent testing that fuel / oil companies do not always add any, or the correct amount of lubricant additives required by law since the reduction of sulphur in fuels. For decades, even before the reduction of sulphur, some farmers & others have added standard (mower) type 2 stroke oil to diesel fuel. From personal testing I've found that adding standard (mower) type 2 stroke oil at 1 ml per litre of fuel to petrol / gasoline gives an increase in power / economy. Using more oil than 1 ml per litre of fuel decreases the power / economy. This is ok for older engines, say pre the year 2000. For later model petrol / gasoline engines I would advise the use of a Polybutene Ashless Lubricant. Usually at around 1 ml per litre of fuel or slightly less. For diesel engines up to 2007 standard (mower) type 2 stroke oil has been used & tested at a 200:1 ratio. (Not ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 or newer systems) For diesel engines after 2007 a Polybutene Ashless Lubricant can be used. Here is another product, PlanetSafe Fuel Treatments. Diesel Lubricant Comparisons | HFRR Test Wear Scar Comparisons PlanetSafe Fuel Treatments. Below are test results for other diesel fuel lubricants. Make sure any lubricant you use is compatible to your engine. I would not use any product listed below that increases wear. DIESEL FUEL LUBRICITY ADDITIVES STUDY RESULTS By Arlen Spicer August 2007 Copyright The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer RESULTS In Order Of Performance: 1) 2% REG SoyPower bio-diesel HFRR 221, 415 micron improvement. 50:1 ratio of baseline fuel to 100% biodiesel 66.56 oz. of 100% biodiesel per 26 gallons of diesel fuel Price: market value 2) Opti-Lube XPD Multi-purpose + anti-gel Cetane Improver, Demulsifier HFRR 317, 319 micron improvement. 256:1 ratio 13 oz/tank $4.35/tank 3) FPPF RV, Bus, SUV Diesel/Gas Fuel Treatment Gas and Diesel Cetane improver, Emulsifier HFRR 439, 197 micron improvement 640:1 ratio 5.2 oz/tank $2.60/tank 4) Opti-Lube Summer Blend Multi-purpose Demulsifier HFRR 447, 189 micron improvement 3000:1 ratio 1.11 oz/tank $0.68/tank 5) Opti-Lube Winter Blend Muti-purpose + anti-gel Cetane improver HFRR 461, 175 micron improvement 512:1 ratio 6.5 oz/tank $3.65/tank - 5 - August, 2007 Copyright The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer 6) Schaeffer Diesel Treat 2000 Multi-purpose + anti-gel Cetane improver, Emulsifier, bio-diesel compatible HFRR 470, 166 micron improvement 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.87/tank 7) Super Tech Outboard 2-Cycle TC-W3 Engine Oil Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 or newer systems) HFRR 474, 162 micron improvement 200:1 ratio 16.64 oz/tank $1.09/tank 8) Stanadyne Lubricity Formula Lubricity Only Demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 479, 157 micron improvement 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.00/tank 9) Amsoil Diesel Concentrate Multi-purpose Demulsifier, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 488, 148 micron improvement 640:1 ratio 5.2 oz/tank $2.16/tank 10) Power Service Diesel Kleen + Cetane Boost Multi-purpose Cetane improver, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 575, 61 micron improvement 400:1 ratio 8.32 oz/tank $1.58/tank - 6 - August, 2007 Copyright The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer 11) Howe’s Meaner Power Kleaner Multi-purpose Alcohol free HFRR 586, 50 micron improvement 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.36/tank 12) Stanadyne Performance Formula Multi-purpose + anti-gel Cetane improver, Demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 603, 33 micron improvement 480:1 ratio 6.9 oz/tank $4.35/tank 13) Used Motor Oil, Shell Rotella T 15W-40, 5,000 miles used. Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage systems) HFRR 634, 2 micron improvement (statistically insignificant change) 200:1 ratio 16.64 oz/tank price: $0.00 14) Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant Gas or Diesel HFRR 641, 5 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change) 427:1 ratio 7.8 oz/tank $2.65/tank 15) B1000 Diesel Fuel Conditioner by Milligan Biotech Multi-purpose, canola oil based additive HFRR 644, 8 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change) 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $2.67/tank - 7 - August, 2007 Copyright The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer 16) FPPF Lubricity Plus Fuel Power Multi-purpose + anti-gel Emulsifier, alcohol free HFRR 675, 39 microns worse than baseline fuel 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.12/tank 17) Marvel Mystery Oil Gas, Oil and Diesel fuel additive (NOT ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 and newer systems) HFRR 678, 42 microns worse than baseline fuel. 320:1 ratio 10.4 oz/tank $3.22/tank 18) ValvTect Diesel Guard Heavy Duty/Marine Diesel Fuel Additive Multi-purpose Cetane improver, Emulsifier, alcohol free HFRR 696, 60 microns worse than baseline fuel 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $2.38/tank 19) Primrose Power Blend 2003 Multi-purpose Cetane boost, bio-diesel compatible, Emulsifier HFRR 711, 75 microns worse than baseline 1066:1 ratio 3.12 oz/tank $1.39/tank CONCLUSIONS: Products 1 through 4 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 460 or better. This meets the strictest requirements requested by the Engine Manufacturers Association. Products 1 through 9 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 520 or better, meeting the U.S. diesel fuel requirements for maximum wear scar in a commercially available diesel fuel. - 8 - August, 2007
I have always calculated my mpg w no name gas vs name brand vs all octanes. 91-93 high test almost always produces better mpg. And engine running smoother . Now ill run 93 Shell consistently next oil change and see what my oil analysis says. Thanks Lake
I know a Toyota dealership tech with many years of experience. He left the Toyota dealership to work at Lexus dealership. He told that he didn't replace fuel injectors at the Lexus dealership when compared to Toyota dealership where he would be replacing fuel injectors from time to time. Premium fuel helped a lot but using good regular fuel is ok along it's a good brand of fuel.
This video is absolutely fantastic, beyond superb! It confirms something we seem to have known about, and forgotten. Racers know 2 stroke engines have the fewest problems on quality fuels. Same for modern 4 stroke engines. Fuels really matter, even 93 v 93 from Shell vs Mobil show vastly different knock event numbers. With Shell performing better and providing more MPG. Two thumbs up Lake! Loved the video and the research info.
Please do a video on fuel grades/additive packages. Also, could an individual add off the shelf additives to “regular” to achieve results near that of “premium”?
The real question is how much does it prolong engine life in km. And how much more money it takes switching to premium fuel. Does the benefit outweight the extra cost.
@@dynokill Putting everything premium into performance oriented/high-end engine is sensible. But for a lot more people the cost of vehicle ownership (including refueling) is much more important. Not many people only drive for enjoyment. There are very few of us enthusiast compare to average population, mate.
Our family just use Shell and whatever octane the vehicle is recommended. So, for example 87 octane for 2017 Honda Civic EX-T with the CVT and 92 octane for the 2018 Honda Civic Hatchback Sport with the CVT. The vehicles operate great!
Thank You, I used to work in a petroleum upgrader plant for raw feed to upgraded feed stock to refineries . Your information is useful and interesting technology. In my area now hydrogen will become the go to source for hybrid vehicles. Amazing information is being accumulated daily . Be encouraged for we have no idea what tomorrow will bring. Thank You once again for your team, your continuing search’s for data . Regards Charles (Chuck) George
Can we have a comparison of different fuel brand? Most people swear by Shell and Exxon, but no one is talking about Costco Gas. Costco is Top tier gas, and they claimed that they also have additives in them. Thus, I wanted to know if their regular gas have the additives too, or only Premium gas does. Then, compare costco gas with Shell. That will prove to everyone I know that Costco gas is cheap and they also protect your car!
@@joejones4172thanks for the respond! I just want to know the gas quality between costco and shell. Both of them have their own recipe for additives, so I wanted to know which one is “better” for my car.
I didn’t get a chance to watch this one yet, but I know European oil companies like Liqui Moly states that they do not recommend doing any long interval oil changes while using the low viscosity oils, in the US, because our fuel isn’t refined enough.
That's because low viscosity oils are no good. Period. I went up from 5W-20 to 5W-30, and make sure to turn the start-stop off every single time. Those two things will significantly help the oil and engine. Then run fuel system cleaner with P.E.A often in these direct injected engines. You don't need to change your oil right after a tank-full of it. At all.
Would love to see a more in depth fuel video. I stick too 1 Costco 2 BP 3 Shell If in my area still Chevron stations. My list would change. Just my two cents. Thanks for your hard work Lake.
This makes me wonder if adding Marvel Mystery Oil to fuel is actually a good idea. I don't use fuel additives, but I exclusively run on Top Tier fuel in my cars and motorcycle in the grade recommended for each. My BMW car and bike both require premium. So far, so good.
I'm no professional, just a backyard scientist with major ocd. From all the research I've done and test I've seen over the years marvel mystery oil helps lubricate the fuel pump and the entire system. Its definitely a good thing, but it obviously doesnt just stick around in there forever, but imo for it to be helping it would need to be added every time you fill up. From what I've gathered MM does alot more for you're fuel then it does for you're oil.
I once made fun of an old guy that told me he mixed a tiny bit of 2 stroke oil in his 4 stroke motorcycle fuel tank. Now, given these results, i think the joke might have been me...
Dude thank you for this. I've always used premium gas in my engines no matter what for the additional additives. I've been using Shell premium gas for years in my Hemi Magnum. I like knowing that the fuel is good and top tier gas. Too many people complain about the cost yet will waste their money on fast food. Give up one meal for your engine. Cars and trucks and car services is too expensive. Be nice to your engine and feed it good fuel. In the long run it will pay off. I love nailing pedal in my Magnum never hearing preignition knocking and knowing it's getting the best gas I can put in it. My tailpipes are clean as a whistle.
Premium fuel also improves performance even if the engine does not require premium fuel. I can feel the difference, the engine just feels like it has more power.
Your statement has been disproven many times over. Unless your vehicle can sense the differences and then adjust accordingly, it will make no difference. There is no more energy in premium fuel vs regular. Premium fuel only has different additives and higher octane. Octane does not make power, it increases detonation and preignition resistance.
@@jakeyoung2092 Most cars have a knock sensor, variable valve, and other variable timings. It’s not crazy to assume that many people’s cars can already adjust. For some reason, my GF’s little 4-banger non-turbo takes premium since it uses aggressive timings, but it’ll run on 87 but does feel slower.
@@jakeyoung2092here's where u are incorrect.. the reason premium makes a vehicle seem to get more power, is the extra cleaning being done with the extra detergents....while it doesn't give the vehicle more power technically, the extra cleaning will remove more deposits resulting in "more power"
@@gianni_schicchi so that's a 'no'. Naturally asirated engines that are designed to run on 87 will run on 91 no problem, but will be less optimal since detonation was calibrated for 87. Yes, naturally aspirated engines will vary the timing to accommodate things like dilution and contamination, but it will not increase power & efficiency with 91. A turbo engine can vary how much pressure it's pushing so it can actually increase power under a higher octane fuel. But not a naturally aspirated one that's been designed for 87.
So this must be the reason LPG powered engines last so much longer. Try to include this in your future videos if possible. I know there used to be many propane powered trucks in USA.
gawd... I am so glad I stumbled across the earlier videos I saw of yours. I am now a raving fan of pretty much anything you post. This is one area, in this video, I have been clamoring about for years - but nobody seems to care about my rantings about the impact of fuel on the engine oil. Especially when there is an unexpected intrusion of fuel into the crankcase (leaking fuel pump diaphragm that dumps gasoline into the sump). Even the fairly easy to disregard impact of fuel on oil in the piston ring grooves as opposed to oil in th emain sump and other parts of the engine. That, of course, leads me into discussing the positive impact of the PCV system, to help keep oil from becoming unduly contaminated by fuel. Anyway, what do I know? Well, I know this - you have well validated some of what I have been harping on for years - common sense stuff that is born out in labs where solid proof reigns supreme. Very cool...
Finally a proper explanation about a question I’ve had for a while now! I’ve been using a combo of Shell and Redline in my DD since 2019 - my engine shows virtually no wear.
People taunt me about using only 91-93 Octane premium fuel in my 2018 Kia Soul ! 1.6L turbo and use Amsoil Signature series oil and filter changes every 5000 miles. (I don't believe in extended mileage oil change intervals because even at 5000 miles, the oil is black from the turbo heat and the engine sounds so smooth after I change it as well as I can hear the turbo singing its high RPM songs after a oil change.) I have 167,000 miles on the engine and have had no trouble with my turbo, block, valves, cams, sensors, rings. This video proves my point. It does make a difference in wear and just sheer driving enjoyment. Every now and then I add a bottle of Amsoil Performance Improver to a full tank to (as you described in the video) protect the rings and seats. I know the KIA mechanic personally at my KIA dealership and the last time I brought it in for some front end work he commented on the lack of varnish on the parts of the engine he inspected. Told me, "What ever you are doing, keep doing it." He said he showed the other techs there my engine condition and wished everybody would take care of their motors like I do.
Are there additives the end user can add to basic fuel to reduce wear? If so, are they cost effective, and how do wear results compare with premium fuels? I wonder if using premium fuel and oil is cost-effective for the average consumer. Having an engine and drive train that lasts longer than the rest of the vehicle may not be useful. Has diesel fuel quality been studied relative to wear? Keep up the good work!
My 2024 Subaru BRZ recommends in its owner’s manual 93+ or 91 minimum if 93 is not available. In my state the only gas station that sells 93 octane is Sunoco (their Ultra variant). Additionally I add Techron Complete every 3 months. (Annual mileage 4.5-5k; oil will be changed every 6 months = 2.5k). I wish I had Shell available in 93 or higher octane.
I have never had or seen a vehicle die because of a "worn out" engine. Vehicles are complex, usually what kills vehicles is a bunch of small things. I have never seen a car die actually from a worn out engine or worn out piston rings. There are like thousands of other ways a car can fail and that's why they fail.
Higher octane is intended for lower compression engines. It has nothing to do with being a better fuel. I put 93 in my civic si because it is a turbo charged engine that call a for high octane. My Tacoma on the other hand is ment to run on 87 being a high compression engine.
WOW!!! I know I say this all the time, but really - WOW!!! I'm blown away by the response. I wish I had the time to read and respond to every comment. Needless to say, we will do more videos on fuel. In the meantime, here is a link to a video I did on Top Tier fuels: ua-cam.com/video/zyy7ZekQ8do/v-deo.html
Very much looking forward to it.
Could questions:
1. Can you do a top tier side by side test of regular vs premium to see the additives?
2. Previous video recommended PEA additives. Like Techron. Can you show whether it’s just detergent or also a lubricant?
Thanks!!
I live in a rural area. We have 5 gas stations in our 2 small towns. Chevron, shell, 76, speedy mart, and circle K. Guess what? The same fuel truck delivers to all 5 on the same day.
Can using a premium fuel in a regular 87 octane car damaged the vehicle? My car says to use regular fuel only but I would like to use fuel with the friction modifier in it which is only in premium by me it seems.
@@jimmyjames6487All they delivering all grades, or just one grade, like the regular?
@D2O2 I imagine all grades because it's the only truck that delivers. It's from a local fuel supply company.
40 year USA fuel hauler here... it is the additive pkg added to gas at the loading rack when tanker trucks are being loaded that makes a fuel "top tier" or "generic".
Some name brand gas, such as Shell, Exxon, etc have their own proprietery additives, BUT the base gasoline and ethanol blend is the same liquid across all brands.
The additive recipe determines the difference.
By Fed rule, all gas must have detergent additives, so, even the lowly no name gas station or big box stores that have gas are selling the same base gasoline as a name branded stations, just the no names use generic additives and the blend recipe is probably lower in additives than a name brand.
Also, most all gas stations have a tank for regular gas, like 87 octane, and a tank for premium gas, like 93 octane. All the choices in octane inbetween 87 and 93 are blended at the station by the pump. For instance, 89 octane Plus is 70% reg 87 and 30% premium 93.
You are getting what you are paying for...
I agree 100%, I worked at a refinery (Canada) for 8 years as Instrumentation supervisor and yes all additives were added at the truck loading terminal. Every brand, Shell/Esso etc had their own additive tanks at the terminal which was added (through metering for precise amounts) to the tanker load as required. Does that happen at remote tank farms/terminals that have their fuel piped in, that's anyone's guess but I would say yes.
If they have a loading rack for the trucks it is done at the rack.
The raw, or base gasolines get piped to storage tanks, regular, and premium base gas, then to the rack to load trucks where at the rack the additive blenders and ethanol blending equipment is there.
When I say base gas I mean for example, where I am at, the 87 regular pump fuel is a 10% ethanol fuel. So, the base gasoline is actually 83 octane, and the 10% ethanol brings it up to 87. Prem is a 91 oct base, the eth brings up to 93, plus the either top tier or generic additives, or proprietery name brand additives all go in at the rack next to the truck.
@@catdaddy3728 Yes of course. Each brands additives are injected into the line before the metering stations. Like I said I was in charge of the all of instrumentation in the plant and facilities, so I know how these systems were designed. Not to mention I worked designing refineries(engineering) for a number of years.
@@wally6193so do I use 93 to get this additive even though my car is rated for 87?
@@MrApplesaucestuff If you're in the USA I can't answer that because I don't know what the minimum requirements are by law in the USA. In Canada all gasoline is required to have those additives, but you may get more in the 93 for some brands.
Hey Lake…where can we find a “ranking” of fuel brands from a premium additive perspective?
What about upper cylinder lubricants?
I’m a YES for a fuel video…
Top tier brands are usually the best. Google top tier gas brands
@@MikeM952 Top Tier has nothing to do with anti-wear additives. The Top Tier consortium only regulates (among its members) *_detergent_* power.
Shell & BP are the only two I’ll use and 99% of the time it’s Shell.
@@169abr Pretty sure BP is not "top Tier" if that matters to you.
@@chestrockwell8328 I go based off datalogs of my car, and BP shows no knock. That being said, I only use it when I’m in a pinch and not near a shell.
My C5 Corvette drank nothing but Shell V-Power 93 its entire 190k mile life in stock internals. I went to do a cam and heads swap for more hp and found that my cross hatching on my cylinder walls looked brand new, and almost zero carbon build up anywhere. Very pleased.
You run a oil catch can?
I have a 2010 Camaro SS with 225,000 miles and just replaced all gaskets, lifters, springs, timing chain, and cam. The cylinders looked like they had barely been run so back together it went and we're still rolling like the car is new. The cars entire life I've always used full synthetic oil and premium fuel, typically same brand unless I'm traveling.
@@ridingstuffed No
@ridingstuffed Allthough I might need one or perhaps new valve covers. I had to delete the valve cover baffling in order to fit my BTR shaft rockers. Now it burns oil. Oh well.
@@ChefofWar33 it's amazing how much oil it prevents from going back into intake ( about a shot glass every 2k miles) once I've seen how effective they are , putting them on all my vehicles from now on.
Worked for the Big Pecten for almost 29 years. Had the privilege to tour both the fuel blending facilities at Deer Park, and the research center on hwy 6 on the west side of Houston. Engineers at the Westhollow facility said the absolute BEST results they have seen in gasoline performance vs engine wear was a rotation of the brand of fuel that you buy. He said, "one fill up of Shell, next fill up ExxonMobil, next fill up Chevron, next fill up Phillips 66, next fill up Valero. Use ONLY top tier brands. They run cars on 24 hour chassis dyno's for months at a time under extreme hot, cold and everything in between.
I’m an underground storage tank installer, and I’d never ever get fuel from a Phillips 66. Dirtiest and least maintained fuel systems that I’ve ever seen. Lots of water in them too because they leak badly but don’t bother to fix them until EPA gets involved and threaten to shut them down.
An analysis of Top Tier brands vs other brands would be an amazing video
Absolutely! 💯
Most us smarter car ppl running *top tier rated fuel* esp in modern GTDI engines. My excellent '22 Edge ST AWD only gets *89 midgrade* top tier rated fuel since new along w/Pennzoil Ultra Platinum/Fram Ultra filter every 5k mis. Runs/drives phenomenal! 💯
Agreed
Agreed
@@Davido50 all Fram filters have had major rest issues lately, that goes right into the oil.
YES YES please on Fuel brands!
I know that on my high compression, tuned high boost Jag F-Type, Shell has the lowest number of "knock events" on the knock counter, and the least "timing pulls". Strangely Mobil and Exxon fuels were among the worst. I've even seen 93 that performed no better than 87..... Leading to a 3000 RPM knock event related limit.
That why shell gas station is one of my favorite gas station since it is a top tier. Chevron will be my second choice. Exxonmobil but cost alittle more . Walmart and HEB are the worst gas station it is low tier
A fuel brand comparison vs piston ring wear would be really helpful in furthering this topic. Many thanks, I’ve learned a lot from listening to your tips.
Great suggestion!
@@themotoroilgeek Please include Lucas upper cylinder lubricant, and such type product ,
@themotoroilgeek Would be alot of work, but have the fuel injector for each 2 cylinders (V8) fed by a different fuel. This way, 4 different brands are tested with loads, fuel rate and ignition/timing being exactly the same.
@@Forseen-vm1qs good idea
If you do a brand comparison try to get Quick Trip & Costco fuel please! Those are mainly the only two TOP TEIR fuel brands we have locally.
Here in Germany we have 100 and 102 RON (~96 to 97 in the USA). Been using only that on my car for nearly 25 years. Recently I sent my injectors to get them cleaned and they told me they basically didn't need cleaning, spray pattern, etc all almost perfect, except one, which was 99.9% good. 30 year old injectors that have never been taken out of the car before.
That fuel does help.
Thanks for sharing
I have seen the same thing here in Australia with premium fuels, we have two premiums, 95 ron which no one buys, 98 which a lot of people use, and the two regular options which is straight petrol at 91 ron and E10 at 94-96 ron depending on petrol station claims.
With cars that have used 98 almost exclusively, the fuel systems are pristine, where the regular fuels leave a bright red/orange fine smoky dust coating that is also abrasive to fuel pump rotors, brushes and comutators and injector pintles and seats.
My personal experience with injector cleaning is that it is a no no for injectors run on regular as they always leak on heat soak after cleaning, resulting is a hot engine flooding upon restart. This is because the seats and pintles are pitted and eroded, the dusty deposits is what kept the injectors from leaking before service. So I generally never have them serviced, I just replace them with good used ones that have not been serviced but test good, or just brand new OEM ones (no after market).
Injectors that ran on premium seldom need servicing, and if they are, leaking afterwards is much less common.
Interesting what you mentioned about fuel quality and how it destroyed injectors (and fuel pomps).
The Euro 95 is about the same as 89 octane in N. America, while the European 98 is the equivalent of 92 octane. I remember a few gas stations like Sunoco, Petro Canada, used to sell 94 octane in Ontario. In my motorcycle days when we used Wiseco high compression pistons, bigger valves, aftermarket cams the 91 was a minimum requirement for street use and mostly 94 octane fuel was used for modes engines.
Also most stations sell 91-92 Super without added ethanol, while some still add "up to 10% content".
Maybe it would be worth to add topic of ethanol vs no ethanol fuel, and E85 (used extensively in Brasil), while we talk about fuel.
And, two years ago someone dropped to my friend's garage an old Lexus which was sitting for a decade untouched. The internals of the half empty fuel tank basically showed how corrosive the fuel is, once left inside the tank - the fuel pomp was death, plastics were falling apart once touched and metal pieces were covered by thick layer of rust. The fuel itself had unbelievable smell, more like acid than gasoline, although it still burned well when we took a sample.
I always tell people to use up all the gas, drain carburators in their lawnmowers, generators because left over fuel causes no start problems later on.
@@pliedtka I use ethanol-free 93 octane fuel in machines that may sit for a period of time. It has a 2 year shelf life. My generator may sit for 6 months, my ATV, about the same. My 1973 Mustang never had ethanol tainted fuel.
@@TheBandit7613 And I use whatever I can get at the local Coop without any concerns (as long as it's not over a year or two old. Haven't worn out an engine either. One had 315k before I sold it. Running strong. Never had any injector work done on it.
This validates why I always put Shell 93 octane in my 2022 Honda Accord Sport Special Edition, from my very first fill up when the car was new, to the present day. Yeah it's more expensive but my car runs so much smoother and I definitely get better performance. The extra expense is totally worth it.
High rev japanese motors with tighter tolerances = even more important
I always use chevron 91 in my Z….
Although we have a no name brand station in town that claims it’s “ethenol free” - have tried a few tanks as well…
I’m N/A so no real world power or performance difference between the two so I’ll stick to chevron for now
Definitely a 'Yes' for a fuel video. This is interesting from what comes out of a lab, but we all know in the real world, what you actually buy at the pump, and what it says it is, aren't necessarily the same thing. It would be interesting to see tests from a few samples taken from a few different stations (i.e. - not fuel samples provided from the Chevron / Shell / Valero company rep, but actual gas stations) to see what you actually get, and if it makes a difference.
Does this channel ever stop getting better?
Simple answer is - no. Love this level of education Lake is providing.
I've run Shell V-Power Premium in my newly built 2.5L boxer since new. So glad to see the data behind the friction modifier. I got 470,000km out of the first engine and it was still going strong when I got this rebuilt one. So I want more than half a million out of this one!
You rebuilt a motor that was still going strong?
@@insanelywicked873 Replaced, but yes. I don't know of many out there who still have a Subaru EJ20 that saw more than half a million, so it was time. The rest of the car has been rebuilt and re-engineered too, which was the plan all along. I'm not a fan of the new computers with wheels.
@insanelywicked873 At that mileage, yes. Just because it's "going strong" doesn't mean there isn't going to be wear. Plenty of seals, gaskets and bearings are going to be worn out, leaking, or near failing. Better to be proactive than reactive because it'll be cheaper than when you blow a head gasket, piston ring fails, or worse a crankshaft bearing fails.
Too bad that many gas station owners pour the regular into the premium tanks, thus nullifying the benefits and potentially damaging the engines.
@@caryg4638 I don't know where you're from but over here it's not up to the owners where the new fuel deliveries are deposited. In fact the owners are rarely ever onsite.
Back in the 90's, Ford had a problem with fuel pump failures. When they pulled the old pump out, they could tell if you consistently used the same brand fuel and what it was, from how the pump failed. Additives affect everything the fuel contacts. Great video Lake.
I worked at Chrysler in mid 90’s. We had exact same problem, but only on diesel pickups. And it was additives from shell gasoline causing all the failures. And it only happened in temps below freezing.
Thanks for sharing that!
Yes using gasoline in a diesel truck would be disaster 😅@@MrHartless2007
Mostly Taurus's. I was led to believe it had something to do with debris left in tank during manufacturing. Replaced pump and never did clean tank. Lasted ok.
That's amazing. I did hear about some C5 Corvettes having fuel pump problems and recommending Chevron.
I have a Toyota Camry XSE V6. My owners manual recommends 87. That’s what I use. But I only go to Chevron because I believe their fuel additives are top-notch. So far so good, my V6 hums happily
I'll bet the manual says the minimum fuel should be 87. MINIMUM!
The 2g-fre loves premium more
Just put what is recommended but consider researching what gas stations in your area are certified "Top Tier". It doesn't matter what octane you choose, it will have the additives that meet the Top Tier certification which is the best you can do. I personally don't believe it matters which Top Tier station you go to (there are some caveats) but just save your money and stay with 87. All that the octane rating indicates is the fuel's resistance to pre-ignition or pinging. If you only need 87, then get 87.
The fact is says “Minimum” means there’s room for improvement.
Love your videos. Science based testing with measurable results! Not some guy cutting open an oil filter and counting the pleats.
Thanks!
They need API standards for fuel. That way we know what fuel to buy based on science and not marketing hype.
Maybe in a future video - test wear from different brands of fuel?
Well, in the United States there is Top Tier certified fuels. 🤷
Use european standards, our fuels are not crap like in USA.
They do have standards for fuel.
Gasoline has multiple levels of Summer and Winter Blend.
Octane, vapor pressure, oxygen and detergent content are all called out.
Quick search will bring them up for you.
@@TheSzalkowski They don't tell you the anti-wear additives - which is what this video is about.
They need a standard for USA diesel.
YES!!! New Motor Oil Geek! You’ve completely changed how I understand oils in general as well what good fuel and fuel additives to use 👍
If someone besides you would have told me that the fuel additive would reduce engine wear i would not have believed them
Thanks. I had to see the data to believe it myself!
The BIG question is, which fuel? Is Eagle brand premium as good as Shell premium?
@@pat8988And I think an even bigger question, how do you know that the "good" fuel you got last week is still good this week since none of these additive formulations are regulated? The old bait and switch.
@@themotoroilgeekwhat about non elthonel 89 octane that's what I run in my 88 Mercury Marquis because it not driven as much as I would like I'm thinking it's better without the elthonel gumming up the works it's been running great so far of course I baby my baby she's like brand new love the car...
I run non ethanol in a 2007 Toyota Corolla. There's a 3mpg improvement.@@milfordtrethowan2474
Ive been waiting for someone to bring this to the forefront and you have, congratulations and thankyou!
You are a hero. There is no way information like this would ever reach the general public if not for you. You would make a great teacher lake your method of explanation is crystal clear and engaging EVERY SINGLE VIDEO
Hey, Lake. If you recall, I'm the guy during a live chat who mentioned lead leaching into a seasoned block resulting in a skewed oil report for this element. The lead level being high even if unleaded fuel and no additives were used. I noticed this pattern a few times over the years which allowed me to draw that conclusion. I used to watch Your Dad race back in the day. I'm a seasoned NHRA Pro-Stock and Competition Eliminator racer from also back in the day. For the past forty years, I've made my living rebuilding engines and restoring Classic Musclecars. Very interested in fuel type and brands and their effect on engine component wear.
Keep up the great work and the sharing of your findings and information!
I’m a huge fan M.O.G.! This was a revelation, I use Shell Nitrox even in my Micra! More on fuels would be fascinating!
What an absolutely fantastic analysis of the interaction of fuel and engine oil! I would love to see an analysis of the gasoline and which brands have the more premium additives.
... assuming they matter, yes? Lol
Yeah, and how do you know the "good" fuel you got last week is still good this week if we are talking about unregulated additives. How many companies come out with a great product, accumulate a solid customer base and then degrade the product due to cost savings and the customers are none the wiser until one day you realize it's garbage ten years later.
A comparison on fuel brands would be awesome! Thanks Lake!
Great suggestion!
This begs the question of does fuel additives purchased at big box stores provide the same benefits as the premixed fuel at the pump?
This is the question that is screaming to be answered. Also, are we just better off putting additives in, instead of premium fuel?
That’s what I was thinking. Many old timers swear by Marvel Mystery oil and I used to run about a cap full every tank or so in my bike. It always ran fine but I don’t have any data to backup a claim that it made the engine run more efficiently or made anything in the fuel system last longer
@@craigraupe1810Additives don’t change octane, and octane matters with compression.
@@christians131I run marvel in all my vehicles and small engines
@@rapid13 Additives 100% do change the octane rating of a fuel.
For 15 years I've been using exclusively V-Power fuels on my cars and have never regretted it. My diesel Q7 exhaust looks brand new at 152000km and never had issues with PDF or EGR so far.
I'm not so rich to afford cheap fuels.
Yes... follow up with specific brands of gas, so we could know which USA brands offer the best wear protection... I try to use "Top Tier" gas as much as possible... but know, )as my brother did the tanker blending), they are not all the same..."Top Tier" but proprietary and varies from brand to brand.. From my research it seems Shell is the top of the heap, but not sold in our area... Mobil/Exxon makes lots of claims, but I notice here many of those pumps do not have the "Top Tier" endorsement sticker... The explanation I got was Mobil doesn't monitor independent Mobil station here in the NE area I live, and many are not "Top Tier", but buying through independent suppliers/trucking, and isn't any better than Joe's garage... Marathon seems consistent .... but how good is their "STP" additive package...
Did you actually contact Top Tier? One of my local Mobil stations did not have the stickers, I contacted Top Tier with the address. They informed me that station was definitely selling Top Tier gasoline and made note it was lacking stickers. Within a couple months there were stickers placed.
@@Nilumbra No I did not... and Top Tier would tell you exactly that, as that is the official line...But.... I did speak to my brother, who recently retired, and did the blending from one of the two pipe line terminals in our area... His explanation was... Mobil is supposed to be Top Tier... but there is no longer any oversight in our area, as Mobil doe not have an admin here.... Many of the independently owned stations carry the the Mobil name... but their is nothing to stop them from buying from independent haulers at a reduced cost... who can load generic gasoline with minimal required additives... Increasing the stations margins... As a possible unstated disclaimer they may not fly the Top Tier banner on the pumps, to avoid conflict if checked... I would like Top Tier to come to our area and police a little... at any rate... in the interim... I'm buying elsewhere when I can... especially it is often the same price at Marathon, or Sunoco... and much cheaper at Costco... even than generic... Scams everywhere these days... Buyer Beware..
SoCal resident here running M112 and M113K Mercedes engines. Worn down motor mounts turned out to be a great test environment to determine comparative fuel octane levels from different brands, despite the fact that all Los Angeles gets its fuel from only a couple refineries. Least to most vibrations were in this order: Vpower, followed by Tekron, Synergy, arko, unitd and Krklnd. The latter 2 shook the engines a great deal, triggering knock sensors.
Test engines had proper compression, new plugs, coils and injectors, no burnt valves or loose bearings on upper and bottom end inspection.
Also have a M113k. So you're saying Benz's recommendation for Mobil 1 products is moot? So Shell V-Power from now on, including oil?
@@abel4776 Clearly I did not make a general statement about Mobil products. I was referring to gasoline. I am fine using Mobil 1 0w-40 or Pnz Platinum Euro 0w-40 in their current formulations. That said LM Synthoil 0w-40 has managed to stay stable for longer and engines were quieter for longer (anecdotal based on my 2 vehicles). How’s your oil consumption?
@@linvesel Can't say much, just got it, :) I am reading everything to best maintain the engine for years to come.
@@abel4776 congrats. Do this:
1. 3000 mile oil changes using good oil and either Mann or Hengst filters.
2. Make sure to drain oil from BOTH drain bolts, your car has two.
3. Transmission fluid change every 30k with new filter and gasket.
4. When replacing brake pads&rotors, always deactivate the SBC system using a scan tool with Mercedes-specific software. Do NOT work on brakes while system is pressurized-that will reduce the life span of SBC components and brake feel will be inadequate. If you’re having a mechanic do the work make sure they are using this method-not like a standard car.
5. Consider a supercharger oil change before 100k miles on the odometer. There are writeups how to do it, and it’s a bit cumbersome, but totally worth it if yours is in a good shape.
6. Air shocks are utter garbage. Let me know when you’re about to lose your patience with them. I’ll recommend a coilover mod.
7. Have fun, and none of that small supercharger pulley nonsense. Unless you bought two E55s and you like the sound of metal parts popping under hood on WOT.
@@linvesel Advice much appreciated. I bought BenzNinja's STAR SDS system, so I should be prep'ed for brakes. You said Air Shocks (AIRMATIC), but do you also mean the Hydraulic system (ABC), which I have? So far I like it, no issues, do you recommend swapping that with coil overs?
Makes a ton of sense as my understanding of the original purpose of leaded fuel was to help reduce engine wear. When the lead was eliminated, the automotive industry had a new problem they needed to solve. However, what i assumed was that if a fuel was classified as top tier fuel, it would have to meet a certain standard. What I didn’t realize was the fuel grade impacts engine wear because they have different levels of friction modifiers. Thanks for this video because I had always used premium fuel on my 2001 xterra since new until i reached 285k to now at 336k. Engine is fine but guess i’ll go back to premium gas
This was amazing data to see 😮
Yes!!! DEEP DIVE into gasoline properties using different brands testing base fuel and premium fuel
How fascinating! Wasn’t expecting that large of a difference. I hope to see a future video comparing different fuel brands and grades. I’m also curious if/how differences between summer and winter fuel blends impacts these tests.
01:55 - You're near and dear to my heart, Lake. Nobody does motor oil geeking quite like you do . 😄❤👊You're the best.
Thank you!
WOW, I never knew that about the fuel. I always used, Amzoil 100% synthetic oil, because it was the best oil out there, BUT, I never knew about how the choice of my gasoline WILL affect the engine wear too in my car, WOW SIMPIY AMAZING!!! THANK YOU FOR THAT INFORMATION!
Science used correctly is wonderful,thank you for a great explanation 😊
So nice of you
A few things I would like to comment on. 1. I have been preaching this for years to family and friend's and actually had no proof till now. So Thank You for this information. 2. The key here folks is "Premium" Fuel. Even if you go to a "Top Tier" gas station not all Top Tier fuels are created equal. 3. Now the question is, "Which Top Tier Fuels" use these anti wear additives, or are they required for all top tier premium fuels? 4. Different brands have different additive packs as mentioned. In my area on the West Coast of the USA Shell and Chevron are the only 2 brands I know of that have these additives in their Premium fuel. I switch between the 2 brands throughout the year because each brand being used leaves different kinds of deposits. By switching brands (Shell, Chevron for me) I believe I will be getting the best or cleanest engine possible. They kinda counteract each other is my theory. 5. Statistically the average American family keeps their "new" car 3-4 yrs and then moves on to another vehicle. So with this said, these top tier premium fuels and oils may not be used. Why would you put top tier anything in a car that you only plan on keeping a couple of years? So when you are buying a used car even with low miles, its possible it may have more than average wear inside the engine. These are all factors that are interesting to me. Additionally, with the push to EV's I am actually surprised there is such a focus still on milking out as much MPG's and wear in combustion engines. I am just grateful the manufactures are doing these innovations still. Not to mock EV's but the average purchase price of a new gas powered car is around $45k, the average EV sold is $62k, I don't know about you, I can't afford a $62k car, nor do I want that rolling mortgage anyway. People pushing the EV movement just don't consider that people can't afford that technology at this time. Its not right to push these super expensive cars and leave the folks that work hard but may not earn enough to afford an EV with a decent range. These are facts that need to be considered. Very pleased with this video and hope for a follow up on Fuel quality, additives and the like. Very informative and very interesting. Thank You.
Bolt EUV's are in the $20k's to low $30k's brand new and have a $7500 tax incentive. Even a brand new Tesla Model 3 long range rwd is $30k. Prices have come down a lot, might keep dropping for a little while.
Edit: Make that $42k for the Model 3, didn't see the check box that deducts the tax credit and estimated $1k/yr gas savings over 5 years automatically from the total price.
This may be true but it's also may depend on region. I have yet to see a new Tesla long range anywhere near $30k and many of those federal discounts don't apply to everyone. Even a Nissan Leaf is near $40k in my area and that has a range of about 120-150 miles. Where not long ago i could buy lets say a VW Passat TDI for $25k and go 800 miles on ta tank of gas. So it just depends on how you look at things.@@GrandPrix46
I spoke with my sister's Toyota mechanic while visiting Sacramento earlier this summer. He loves his Tesla Y, but uses first gen. Prius as daily driver. I understand that where climate conditions and infrastructure allows the EVs eventually will displace IC engine, but there are many regions where the regular car powered by IC will stay. I can't imagine myself doing the trip from Eastern Ontario in a EV: I did over 6k miles in 3 weeks time. I know a very few European countries have like Norway have great EV infrastructure in the cities, but there are places where EV just go because of weather and sparse EV infrastructure. As for now America and most Europe is not ready for EVs.
@@pliedtka you bring up some very valid points and I'm appreciative that your civil about your response and not being rude or mean like some people have been. Another problem that faces my community is apartment complexes we don't have a lot of them here cuz I'm in a rural area but we have about 8 to 10 apartment complexes in my area none of which have charging stations for EV's as of today. So most people that I know that live in the apartments they drive over to the local mall and plug in at a Tesla charging station and again there's only four of those charging stations that are local mall and some people have to wait up to 2 hours to charge your vehicle and that's assuming that the charging stations are working correctly because there's so many people trying to get their cars charged that you have to wait in an extremely long line on certain days. I think the whole idea of an electric vehicle is a good one I do but it's in its infant stages still and there's a lot of problems to make it affordable for the masses and to make it convenient for people to drive long distances and that time just is probably not for another 10 to 15 years away if not longer realistically speaking. But for some people like I said I don't drive that much so I drive a Volkswagen Golf and I get gas in it maybe once a month and I drive almost 500 miles on a tank of gas. So how is it bettering the planet for me to sell my golf and buy an EV? Honestly I just don't think it would help in any way. In some cases it just makes no sense but in other markets in other circumstances EV's make complete sense. It's just these people need to understand that just because some people live in a city where there's a lot of charging stations there's a lot of availability and maybe prices are lower for such reason doesn't mean Nationwide it's the same.. or globally is the same for everyone else.
Cam using fuel additives supplant using higher octane and/or brand specific fuels to achieve the same improved wear characteristics? This is my favorite new channel.
Or can starting off by using higher quality oil that's going to be diluted by gasoline already be the answer?
What oil were they using in those test study showed? Were they already using a poor performing oil so they clearly see the change in the fuel performance?
Thanks Lake... I own 2 cars... a Subaru 2.5l and a Jaguar 5.0l. What I have learned from you is that I abuse the Subaru much more with cold starts/short trips in everyday use, while the Jaguar is usually taken out on the weekends for longer highway speed runs where the engine gets up to temp every time I use it. I checked the dipstick on the Subaru, and I could smell the fuel in the oil. I now try harder to give the Subaru more runs on the highway when possible, and I am religious about oil changes on both cars with shorter intervals. The videos you have been putting out (including the Porsche ones) have really been educational compared to all of the marketing and internet expert advice.
I think you need to give that Subaru an "italian tuneup" once in a while. some Techron may help too.
@@jamescaron6465 Yep... techron after each oil change
Part of the problem with the Subaru is the direct injection. We have an Ascent with a 2.4 turbo and fuel dilution with 4k OCI’s have been over 5% (unofficially 9% when I inquired from OAI). This is using premium and my wife’s primary vehicle. She idles it when it’s cold for 5-10min and then drives for about 15-20min to work.
If you can smell gasoline in the oil, that's a sign of fuel injectors leaking.
I would hook up my scanner and start checking the sensor ECT ECT on down the line.
No Italian tuneup will work.
I do agree that using Techron fuel treatment will work.
Even though I buy fuel with Techron already. That doesn't mean all gas stations have It added.
So I do treat my gas every once in a while.
My 23 year old Chevy still runs on the same ole injectors.
I do own a scanner to see how my fuel trims are doing.
Also the same ole cat's.
I quit using K/N filters many years ago after discovering my intake manifold caked with fine dust/oil.
I cleaned my intake and went back to regular filters and keep them changed out.
@@2nickles647 that’s simply untrue with direct injection only engines nowadays. Look into Honda 1.5 turbo and Subaru 2.4 turbo oil analysis’s. It’s not uncommon to see very high fuel dilution, especially in cold environments. I’ve done oil analysis’s on my Subaru Ascent since new and it’s always been high (4k OCI’s and 91 only), no leaky injector or anything wrong with the vehicle. It’s just the nature of the engine sadly. Though even with that fuel dilution (referring to Subaru 2.4 turbo), I’ve seen many people go way beyond 6k OCI’s, a lot more idle time than we do with low quality oil and using 87 octane with way more miles than we have that have never had an engine issue.
I used shells 93 + nitro for 12 years on my 03 teggy that I bought at 116k miles. Got it to 230k miles before I sold it. Still ran fine. Also changed oil every 4k miles.
Maintenance is KING.
Oil, fuel, additives, etc. I’ve driven mostly Hondas and Toyotas with 87 octane and cheap oil and they all go over 300k miles without major repairs. I love this channel and geek out like the rest of us, but so much of getting a car to last long is buying the right one to begin with. Especially if buying used. My 04 super duty with the 5.4 2 valve also has 240k and still runs like new, original everything except the alternator. Cumberland farms gas, although I do do the oil changes with good oil and filter, every 3k miles max. Insanely of around town start/atop, towing hauling. Problem is, not sure I trust any of the new trucks anymore to last that long without major repairs.
Yes, I agree with you on vehicle brand. I buy and like the Honda brand. I think there might be a difference today as opposed to 2004 model vehicles in that today's anti pollution standards have the exhaust is recirculated back through the engine to be reburned which makes for a carbon build up issue. I think this will shorten the life span of many new vehicles today.
Yes Lake, we ALL want fuel testing ! The motorcycle I ride and dragrace very often gets Shell 95+% of the time. Levels of ethanol content would be great to see, but as thorough as you are Im sure that would be done. Thanks Motor Oil Geek !
Thank you!
Definitely YES for an in depth fuel video. You whetted my appetite.
More to come!
Great info!!! I'm a believer and use Shell 93 religiously with over 340K on our Mazda CX5. 🙂
Thanks for sharing!
There is no Top Tier 93 here, only 91. I take good care of my CX-5 Turbo too, though I have 80 times fewer miles on mine. Yours has to be the highest mileage Mazda Skyactiv 2.5 I've seen to date! I use Pennzoil UP 5W-30.
@jayray61 what maintenance have you done on the transmission?
@@gtppilot flushed, filter change, and fresh fluid every 65K, makes a difference! Also do the plugs and filters every 12 months
@@JayRay61 thank you for the info ! Great job keeping that cx5 going. I have a 6 now, but cx5 will likely be my next vehicle
I use 91 in all my motors. From my lawn mower motorcycle to my car. Mostly to avoid the corn Ethenol.
Though, they do rip everyone off because the use shared hoses and pumps. So for the first few liters you are paying premium and getting whatever cheap swill the previous customer pumped.
Where do you live to get ethanal free gas?
I had an engine machinist tell me something similar to this when I was a kid. The machinist built drag car engines along with regular vehicle engines. Im sure he learned alot from that.
Yes!!!! Tired of ppl bashing ppl on the groups/forums about “yOuR wAsTiNg YoUr MoNeY!” about premium fuel.
Just a friendly reminder that this video is not about octane ratings. More about the additive packages which in the US, is a certification called "Top Tier".
I agree. I worked in auto parts and people that operated their vehicle as cheaply as possible, be it fuel or cheap components they would experience more frequent trips to see me in the parts store. Put less in get less out......
Top tier is about detergents, not anti wear additives. That being said, he never mentions that octane has anything to do with wear either. It's anti wear additives, generally you are looking for Shell or BP.
@@craigfin3222 It's not the octane, its the additive package. In the US the higher octane fuels come with a better additive package. So, while you're wasting your money on higher than required octane, you still get a bit of a win on the additive package.
this is about non-top tier fuel brands vs top-tier fuel brands; not 87 vs 91.
It was one thing when for many years premium was 20 cents a gallon more than regular but now that it's a dollar a gallon more, there's no way I'm paying it. I don't understand how they can justify charging a dollar a gallon more for premium. You can buy a good quality fuel additive instead of buying premium fuel and still come out quite a bit ahead, especially if you buy it in bulk.
💯
I think there is some confusion over the word “premium”. Not 100% sure but I think Lake means “premium quality” not “high octane from the premium pump”. In other words here in Colorado I can buy premium fuel that is only 85 octane.
@@dac7046 You have a good point there. I really like Lake's content but imho he really should be more careful about his wording and the video clips he shows in relation to those words. I was recently watching another video of his in which he was discussing fuel system treatments and stressed that you should get one which contains polyether amine. As he is saying this, he shows a clip of someone picking up a bottle of Super Tech fuel injector cleaner, which suggests it contains said ingredient but doesn't.
For me it's about $.50 to $.60 to go from 87 to 93. But I think people do better if they can get Costco gas.
@@dac7046 Shell V Power Nitro premium has more 3 times more additives than Shell regular. That is according to Shell!
Watched this video when it was first posted and decided to do my own unscientific experiments, with undeniable (family member confirmations) results....
Vehicle #1: low-mileage 2016 Honda CRV, always annoyingly buzzy, always used low-octane top-tier gas and have never experienced knocking. We just finished running a full tank of the high-octane V-power through it after watching this MOG video and I could instantly tell the difference in vibration and it seemed to get smoother as it went through the tank, and gas mileage improved slightly throughout. Went back to using a low-octane top tier gas again and, while still smoother than before, was buzzier than with the V-power. Now, I have to decide whether the additional expense is worth it. I might just use the V-power on occasion.
Vehicle #2: 1992 Lexus SC400 w/150k miles, always requires premium. Filled with V-power on a 2/3 empty tank and noticed lower vibrations immediately. Crazy. (original motor mounts are probably a factor)
Vehicles #3-#4 to follow (25-yo 2UZ-FE V8 and 12-yo 2GR-FE V6, both with original mounts)
Note: all fuels used have been E10, incl the premium Shell V-power.
Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, and Shell V-Power Nitro+ is my combination of oil, and fuel used! Definitely a fantastic combination from the information you've shared Lake, thank you for all that you do! Cheers!
In our shop, we’re switching 6 customers from Pennzoil to Valvoline’s Clean and Restore full synthetic engine oil. All of these vehicles have over 130,000 miles. We’re tracking oil consumption and engine performance. I’m looking forward to seeing the results of our little in-shop experiment.
@jamram9924 careful with the first oil change with that Valvoline Restore and Protect. Individual's cutting open oil filters are discovering a lot of sludge etc. in the oil filter after the first 1,000 miles or so. Depending on how the vehicle has been maintained of course, good luck with your experiment's!
@@orionschroeder9401 These are regularly maintained vehicles. We just want to determine if the change from Pennzoil Full Synthetic to Valvoline Clean and Restore will make a noticeable difference.
Ultra Platinum has kept my tuned Veloster N pretty much perfect for 90,000 miles so far.
All those fancy brand names don't mean none.
Just buy the grade you are looking for as cheaply as you can.
Stock cars aren't anywhere near as sensitive as high power engines.
I'm not talkin' about these little hatchbacks with "cold air intakes"
Or cleetuses 3" exhaust on his drunkenly driven ram 2500hd.
Most people don't wanna hear this, but most cars are stock;
And thats perfectly fine, but they don't need a regimen of brand names and propoganda 😂
Top tier fuels + Synthetic oils + shorter oil change intervals
Is E10 or E5 fuel better? They sat E10 cleans better the engine and creates less soot !
@@matthiasgrunwald895 The difference between and e10 and e5 fuel is almost nil. Both concentrations are enough to provide decent cleaning for intake valves on traditional port injected engines which is a very good thing. Once you get over e10 you're possible exposing your vehicle fuel system to issues if it wasn't designed for e15 fuel. That extra ethanol can damage rubber and plastic parts in the fuel system. I'd say away from that e15 and high levels on any car not made within the past 5-7 years.
@@matthiasgrunwald895E0 is what I've used for years. Any ethanol blend in my small engines are the carbs, fuel primers, and lines. In my civic I get better fuel economy with E0 over E10, enough to pay the extra cost of E0. Ethanol is trash unless its E85 and you're using it for boosted or high compression engine and need the cheap high octane.
Same other then the oil change interval. Lets see if my extended oil changes will bite me in the butt one day. I find it a waste to change full synthetic so soon.
@@АлакПатрова True, you should NEVER use fuel containing ethanol in it with small engines found in the products you mention like lawn mowers, chain saws, ect.
It WILL damage those carb systems. e5 or e10 won't cause damage to any car fuel system made after 1990. The problem for most people in the USA today is that you can almost never find e0 fuel in most parts of the country, and if you can find it, usually it is much more expensive to buy compared with e5/10 fuel.
Two stroke oils?
I have put a little two stroke oil in all my 4 stroke lawn equipment for years now.
It’s great to keep all the rubber components in the carburettor and fuel lines in good condition.
Since I have run it in my 4 stroke Honda brush cutter I have not replaced the mixture diaphragm.
What ratio are you using? I was thinking 1/4oz per gallon at a 1:512 ratio for a 4 cycle engine
@@BrianNC81 Search around the LS forums. A fellow put a lot of time and effort into adding two stroke oil to the gas of his LS truck engine. IIR he came up with the correct ratio for a 4 stroke engine.
Ive also been doing the same. for about 8 years now, zero carb issues. also fuel seems to store longer as pre-mix.
You shouldn't be letting fuel sit in your small engines, what's happened to you is user error not the fuel
@@nucleargrizzly1776 any ratio is the right ratio if your main jets are fat enough lol, ive been running 100-1with #72 jets on my 54 ford, im too cheap to buy that lead substitute crap, and a gallon of pennsoil premium marine 2 cycle is 20 bucks! i just hope it actually does something for the un-hardened valve seats
I only use Shell V power and Chevron Supreme in my 2 vehicles that use premium. Had the timing chain done on my Range Rover BMW engine and the mechanic said it was the CLEANEST ENGINE he’d EVER SEEN and he’d seen millions plural he figured. So thanks dad for the advice- almost more important than the best oil is the best ⛽️
I find this video very informative. In the past I’ve had bad luck with shell fuel. The shop I work at we actually did a test on various different brand of fuels, all testing was done on a bone stock 2011 coyote mustang, we were tuning the engine to optimize power and performance. We found shell fuel to be by far the worst fuel for hp. The best I can remember it was spark knocking back enough we had to take 4 degrees of timing out to calm it down. We went to a different shell station to get fuel and try again thinking it was bad 93 octane fuel, and was rewarded with the same result. Our results showed qt and racetrac brand fuels to make the most hp.
Yes, please do a video on how the various fuel rate. That would be very helpful.
Yes, now gotta compare Top TIer brands Chevron, Shell, Arco etc. !!!
And Costco.
@@JohnMcCullough-wr9hjyes please Costco
@@JohnMcCullough-wr9hjI don't think Costco is a Top tier brand for fuel.
@@LAzii1117 The Costco's that I go to (Arizona) are Top Tier.
I use fuel additives containing PEA to clean. Is there a fuel additive that helps with wear. Thanks again for another educational video. You Rock!
Use a good quality "Upper Cylinder Lubricant"
@@153eddy Do you personally use it every fill up?
We absolutely need a fuel brand video. Great content.
Ive suspected this all along and have questioned all who say if your car can run on 87 theres no need to run mid grade or higher. Ive always said and use mid and premium for the very reason they have more additives, cleaners etc., and that alone justifies using them and i will continue to do so.
It has been my understanding that a premium brand in the USA would have additives in all of the octane levels (unlike euro brands). I would be vey interested to see a dedicated video exploring this deeper.
This is my understanding as well
Valuable automotive information that everyone to watch
Can you do a comparison of different "brands" of fuel.. like Costco vs Shell vs Chevron. Specifically showing how much detergents and anti friction additives are in each.
Everyone has their engine oil preference or dislikes based on their own experience. I was told by an old-time mechanic that he would never use a specific brand of oil because in his experience that brand had a real problem with leaving sludge and goops. It was from the Motor Oil Geeks videos with quantitative data where I felt good in telling him that things had changed.
Now you open the fuel can of worms! Fuel. Gasolines are different all over the country in the USA, and the fuels in Europe are different than that as well as in Asia. Add to this that people today don't always use the same brand of fuel in their car, and thus end up with quite the variety of fuels in their tanks. Thanks for opening this can of worms, but at least it is based on factual data. Thanks Lake
Fascinating report. Some anecdotal evidence: in my 2005 Mustang GT, I use mostly Chevron or Shell in only the mid-octane (89 or so) range, but I add Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant/Fuel Injector Cleaner to EVERY tank. And yeah, I thought of it as "snake oil" originally, but I'm up to 231,000 miles so far (bought it at 22,000), the car runs well, does not burn any measurable amount of oil, and still gets 25 mpg on the highway. Just my experience.
It has been well documented by independent testing that fuel / oil companies do not always add any, or the correct amount of lubricant additives required by law since the reduction of sulphur in fuels.
For decades, even before the reduction of sulphur, some farmers & others have added standard (mower) type 2 stroke oil to diesel fuel.
From personal testing I've found that adding standard (mower) type 2 stroke oil at 1 ml per litre of fuel to petrol / gasoline gives an increase in power / economy. Using more oil than 1 ml per litre of fuel decreases the power / economy. This is ok for older engines, say pre the year 2000. For later model petrol / gasoline engines I would advise the use of a Polybutene Ashless Lubricant. Usually at around 1 ml per litre of fuel or slightly less.
For diesel engines up to 2007 standard (mower) type 2 stroke oil has been used & tested at a 200:1 ratio. (Not ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 or newer systems)
For diesel engines after 2007 a Polybutene Ashless Lubricant can be used.
Here is another product, PlanetSafe Fuel Treatments.
Diesel Lubricant Comparisons | HFRR Test Wear Scar Comparisons PlanetSafe Fuel Treatments.
Below are test results for other diesel fuel lubricants.
Make sure any lubricant you use is compatible to your engine. I would not use any product listed below that increases wear.
DIESEL FUEL LUBRICITY ADDITIVES STUDY RESULTS By Arlen Spicer August 2007 Copyright The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer
RESULTS In Order Of Performance: 1) 2% REG SoyPower bio-diesel HFRR 221, 415 micron improvement. 50:1 ratio of baseline fuel to 100% biodiesel 66.56 oz. of 100% biodiesel per 26 gallons of diesel fuel Price: market value 2) Opti-Lube XPD Multi-purpose + anti-gel Cetane Improver, Demulsifier HFRR 317, 319 micron improvement. 256:1 ratio 13 oz/tank $4.35/tank 3) FPPF RV, Bus, SUV Diesel/Gas Fuel Treatment Gas and Diesel Cetane improver, Emulsifier HFRR 439, 197 micron improvement 640:1 ratio 5.2 oz/tank $2.60/tank 4) Opti-Lube Summer Blend Multi-purpose Demulsifier HFRR 447, 189 micron improvement 3000:1 ratio 1.11 oz/tank $0.68/tank 5) Opti-Lube Winter Blend Muti-purpose + anti-gel Cetane improver HFRR 461, 175 micron improvement 512:1 ratio 6.5 oz/tank $3.65/tank - 5 - August, 2007 Copyright The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer 6) Schaeffer Diesel Treat 2000 Multi-purpose + anti-gel Cetane improver, Emulsifier, bio-diesel compatible HFRR 470, 166 micron improvement 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.87/tank 7) Super Tech Outboard 2-Cycle TC-W3 Engine Oil Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 or newer systems) HFRR 474, 162 micron improvement 200:1 ratio 16.64 oz/tank $1.09/tank 8) Stanadyne Lubricity Formula Lubricity Only Demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 479, 157 micron improvement 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.00/tank 9) Amsoil Diesel Concentrate Multi-purpose Demulsifier, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 488, 148 micron improvement 640:1 ratio 5.2 oz/tank $2.16/tank 10) Power Service Diesel Kleen + Cetane Boost Multi-purpose Cetane improver, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 575, 61 micron improvement 400:1 ratio 8.32 oz/tank $1.58/tank - 6 - August, 2007 Copyright The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer 11) Howe’s Meaner Power Kleaner Multi-purpose Alcohol free HFRR 586, 50 micron improvement 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.36/tank 12) Stanadyne Performance Formula Multi-purpose + anti-gel Cetane improver, Demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 603, 33 micron improvement 480:1 ratio 6.9 oz/tank $4.35/tank 13) Used Motor Oil, Shell Rotella T 15W-40, 5,000 miles used. Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage systems) HFRR 634, 2 micron improvement (statistically insignificant change) 200:1 ratio 16.64 oz/tank price: $0.00 14) Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant Gas or Diesel HFRR 641, 5 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change) 427:1 ratio 7.8 oz/tank $2.65/tank 15) B1000 Diesel Fuel Conditioner by Milligan Biotech Multi-purpose, canola oil based additive HFRR 644, 8 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change) 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $2.67/tank - 7 - August, 2007 Copyright The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer 16) FPPF Lubricity Plus Fuel Power Multi-purpose + anti-gel Emulsifier, alcohol free HFRR 675, 39 microns worse than baseline fuel 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.12/tank 17) Marvel Mystery Oil Gas, Oil and Diesel fuel additive (NOT ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 and newer systems) HFRR 678, 42 microns worse than baseline fuel. 320:1 ratio 10.4 oz/tank $3.22/tank 18) ValvTect Diesel Guard Heavy Duty/Marine Diesel Fuel Additive Multi-purpose Cetane improver, Emulsifier, alcohol free HFRR 696, 60 microns worse than baseline fuel 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $2.38/tank 19) Primrose Power Blend 2003 Multi-purpose Cetane boost, bio-diesel compatible, Emulsifier HFRR 711, 75 microns worse than baseline 1066:1 ratio 3.12 oz/tank $1.39/tank CONCLUSIONS: Products 1 through 4 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 460 or better. This meets the strictest requirements requested by the Engine Manufacturers Association. Products 1 through 9 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 520 or better, meeting the U.S. diesel fuel requirements for maximum wear scar in a commercially available diesel fuel. - 8 - August, 2007
This guy never blinks.
Yeah I just commented telling him I'm worried about his eye wear. Eye oil film is not being maintained 😂
@@MattyEngland 😂
@@MattyEngland He needs to use Pennzoil Ultra eye drops.
I met him at STLE this past May. It's true. I thought about taking a swing at him just to see if he would blink lol
@@salsuginusrex5196 😂
I’d love to see a fuel comparison or fuel specific video. There’s a lot of speculation online, but no real data. I’d especially like to see if certain octanes or brands help minimize carbon build up on direct injection engines.
Of course a note in depth fuel video
Fascinating! I’ve always looked at octane and said no point in premium in most engines unless spark advance or turbo boost is controlled by knock sensor; no difference in energy content in the gas (I do not use gasohol). This REALLY begs for a comparison of anti-wear additives in premium fuels. Thanks.
Yes please. More in depth video on fuel. Thank you.
So what if you add 2 stroke synthetic oil in gas for 4 stroke engine? Will it act as friction modifier?
And for what should I look in fuel additives for gas and diesel fuel? Thanks a lot!
Great video as always!
Bob is the oil guy forum had many threads over the years.
One guy put 2.5 oz of pure acetone per 10 gallons of fuel and made note of the results. I still use the formula for long road trips. Atomizes the fuel better and more mileage, (proven results)
If course adding toulene or xylene to bump up octane but only if you can find it cheap enough or else the cost per gallon makes no sense.
It has been well documented by independent testing that fuel / oil companies do not always add any, or the correct amount of lubricant additives required by law since the reduction of sulphur in fuels.
For decades, even before the reduction of sulphur, some farmers & others have added standard (mower) type 2 stroke oil to diesel fuel.
From personal testing I've found that adding standard (mower) type 2 stroke oil at 1 ml per litre of fuel to petrol / gasoline gives an increase in power / economy. Using more oil than 1 ml per litre of fuel decreases the power / economy. This is ok for older engines, say pre the year 2000. For later model petrol / gasoline engines I would advise the use of a Polybutene Ashless Lubricant. Usually at around 1 ml per litre of fuel or slightly less.
For diesel engines up to 2007 standard (mower) type 2 stroke oil has been used & tested at a 200:1 ratio. (Not ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 or newer systems)
For diesel engines after 2007 a Polybutene Ashless Lubricant can be used.
Here is another product, PlanetSafe Fuel Treatments.
Diesel Lubricant Comparisons | HFRR Test Wear Scar Comparisons PlanetSafe Fuel Treatments.
Below are test results for other diesel fuel lubricants.
Make sure any lubricant you use is compatible to your engine. I would not use any product listed below that increases wear.
DIESEL FUEL LUBRICITY ADDITIVES STUDY RESULTS By Arlen Spicer August 2007 Copyright The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer
RESULTS In Order Of Performance: 1) 2% REG SoyPower bio-diesel HFRR 221, 415 micron improvement. 50:1 ratio of baseline fuel to 100% biodiesel 66.56 oz. of 100% biodiesel per 26 gallons of diesel fuel Price: market value 2) Opti-Lube XPD Multi-purpose + anti-gel Cetane Improver, Demulsifier HFRR 317, 319 micron improvement. 256:1 ratio 13 oz/tank $4.35/tank 3) FPPF RV, Bus, SUV Diesel/Gas Fuel Treatment Gas and Diesel Cetane improver, Emulsifier HFRR 439, 197 micron improvement 640:1 ratio 5.2 oz/tank $2.60/tank 4) Opti-Lube Summer Blend Multi-purpose Demulsifier HFRR 447, 189 micron improvement 3000:1 ratio 1.11 oz/tank $0.68/tank 5) Opti-Lube Winter Blend Muti-purpose + anti-gel Cetane improver HFRR 461, 175 micron improvement 512:1 ratio 6.5 oz/tank $3.65/tank - 5 - August, 2007 Copyright The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer 6) Schaeffer Diesel Treat 2000 Multi-purpose + anti-gel Cetane improver, Emulsifier, bio-diesel compatible HFRR 470, 166 micron improvement 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.87/tank 7) Super Tech Outboard 2-Cycle TC-W3 Engine Oil Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 or newer systems) HFRR 474, 162 micron improvement 200:1 ratio 16.64 oz/tank $1.09/tank 8) Stanadyne Lubricity Formula Lubricity Only Demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 479, 157 micron improvement 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.00/tank 9) Amsoil Diesel Concentrate Multi-purpose Demulsifier, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 488, 148 micron improvement 640:1 ratio 5.2 oz/tank $2.16/tank 10) Power Service Diesel Kleen + Cetane Boost Multi-purpose Cetane improver, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 575, 61 micron improvement 400:1 ratio 8.32 oz/tank $1.58/tank - 6 - August, 2007 Copyright The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer 11) Howe’s Meaner Power Kleaner Multi-purpose Alcohol free HFRR 586, 50 micron improvement 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.36/tank 12) Stanadyne Performance Formula Multi-purpose + anti-gel Cetane improver, Demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 603, 33 micron improvement 480:1 ratio 6.9 oz/tank $4.35/tank 13) Used Motor Oil, Shell Rotella T 15W-40, 5,000 miles used. Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage systems) HFRR 634, 2 micron improvement (statistically insignificant change) 200:1 ratio 16.64 oz/tank price: $0.00 14) Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant Gas or Diesel HFRR 641, 5 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change) 427:1 ratio 7.8 oz/tank $2.65/tank 15) B1000 Diesel Fuel Conditioner by Milligan Biotech Multi-purpose, canola oil based additive HFRR 644, 8 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change) 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $2.67/tank - 7 - August, 2007 Copyright The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer 16) FPPF Lubricity Plus Fuel Power Multi-purpose + anti-gel Emulsifier, alcohol free HFRR 675, 39 microns worse than baseline fuel 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.12/tank 17) Marvel Mystery Oil Gas, Oil and Diesel fuel additive (NOT ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 and newer systems) HFRR 678, 42 microns worse than baseline fuel. 320:1 ratio 10.4 oz/tank $3.22/tank 18) ValvTect Diesel Guard Heavy Duty/Marine Diesel Fuel Additive Multi-purpose Cetane improver, Emulsifier, alcohol free HFRR 696, 60 microns worse than baseline fuel 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $2.38/tank 19) Primrose Power Blend 2003 Multi-purpose Cetane boost, bio-diesel compatible, Emulsifier HFRR 711, 75 microns worse than baseline 1066:1 ratio 3.12 oz/tank $1.39/tank CONCLUSIONS: Products 1 through 4 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 460 or better. This meets the strictest requirements requested by the Engine Manufacturers Association. Products 1 through 9 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 520 or better, meeting the U.S. diesel fuel requirements for maximum wear scar in a commercially available diesel fuel. - 8 - August, 2007
I love these videos, Lake. Great work, and thank you for all the info.
I have always calculated my mpg w no name gas vs name brand vs all octanes. 91-93 high test almost always produces better mpg. And engine running smoother . Now ill run 93 Shell consistently next oil change and see what my oil analysis says. Thanks Lake
Thanks for sharing!
I know a Toyota dealership tech with many years of experience. He left the Toyota dealership to work at Lexus dealership. He told that he didn't replace fuel injectors at the Lexus dealership when compared to Toyota dealership where he would be replacing fuel injectors from time to time. Premium fuel helped a lot but using good regular fuel is ok along it's a good brand of fuel.
This video is absolutely fantastic, beyond superb! It confirms something we seem to have known about, and forgotten. Racers know 2 stroke engines have the fewest problems on quality fuels. Same for modern 4 stroke engines. Fuels really matter, even 93 v 93 from Shell vs Mobil show vastly different knock event numbers. With Shell performing better and providing more MPG. Two thumbs up Lake! Loved the video and the research info.
That was one great lesson. I only fill up at Shell or Chevron. With their fuel programs, their pricing is actually very competitive
Shell has programs that save you money. Most pumps have advertising on them. You can get the app on your phone.
Ours is at least 10, sometimes 15 or more cents per gallon higher.
@@randywl8925 with their Fuel Rewards program you you can save up to $.10 a gallon and then with other incentive, you can save 15 or more.
@@oldgringo66 oh I know. I have it. Once I save $.60 a gallon on gas with all the incentives I banked up.
Please do a video on fuel grades/additive packages. Also, could an individual add off the shelf additives to “regular” to achieve results near that of “premium”?
The real question is how much does it prolong engine life in km. And how much more money it takes switching to premium fuel. Does the benefit outweight the extra cost.
Exactly, many variable affect wear over the life cycle of an engine.
Buying an oil that costs the double will make the engine last the double?
For a lot of people the cost is irrelevant. It's more about prolonging the life of something that brings immense joy to them.
@@dynokill Putting everything premium into performance oriented/high-end engine is sensible. But for a lot more people the cost of vehicle ownership (including refueling) is much more important. Not many people only drive for enjoyment. There are very few of us enthusiast compare to average population, mate.
@@immicz you think those people are watching the motor oil guy on UA-cam? I suppose it's possible.
Our family just use Shell and whatever octane the vehicle is recommended. So, for example 87 octane for 2017 Honda Civic EX-T with the CVT and 92 octane for the 2018 Honda Civic Hatchback Sport with the CVT. The vehicles operate great!
Thank You, I used to work in a petroleum upgrader plant for raw feed to upgraded feed stock to refineries . Your information is useful and interesting technology. In my area now hydrogen will become the go to source for hybrid vehicles. Amazing information is being accumulated daily . Be encouraged for we have no idea what tomorrow will bring. Thank You once again for your team, your continuing search’s for data . Regards Charles (Chuck) George
Thank you so much! The work with hydrogen is fascinating.
I love piston rings! That has to be a T Shirt!!
Can we have a comparison of different fuel brand? Most people swear by Shell and Exxon, but no one is talking about Costco Gas. Costco is Top tier gas, and they claimed that they also have additives in them. Thus, I wanted to know if their regular gas have the additives too, or only Premium gas does. Then, compare costco gas with Shell. That will prove to everyone I know that Costco gas is cheap and they also protect your car!
By the "rules" a brand can't say they are Top Tier unless ALL the octanes are. FWIW, "Top Tier" was originally for new cars.
@@joejones4172thanks for the respond! I just want to know the gas quality between costco and shell. Both of them have their own recipe for additives, so I wanted to know which one is “better” for my car.
Safest option is Shell but Costco is popular for a reason so it should be fine as well
I didn’t get a chance to watch this one yet, but I know European oil companies like Liqui Moly states that they do not recommend doing any long interval oil changes while using the low viscosity oils, in the US, because our fuel isn’t refined enough.
That's because low viscosity oils are no good. Period. I went up from 5W-20 to 5W-30, and make sure to turn the start-stop off every single time. Those two things will significantly help the oil and engine. Then run fuel system cleaner with P.E.A often in these direct injected engines. You don't need to change your oil right after a tank-full of it. At all.
Would love to see a more in depth fuel video.
I stick too 1 Costco 2 BP 3 Shell
If in my area still Chevron stations. My list would change.
Just my two cents.
Thanks for your hard work Lake.
Here in Singapore, the options that we get are RON 98, 95 & 92 from SHELL, CALTEX, ESSO, SPC and Sinopec companies
This makes me wonder if adding Marvel Mystery Oil to fuel is actually a good idea. I don't use fuel additives, but I exclusively run on Top Tier fuel in my cars and motorcycle in the grade recommended for each. My BMW car and bike both require premium. So far, so good.
You snake oil guys never give it a rest .
I'm no professional, just a backyard scientist with major ocd. From all the research I've done and test I've seen over the years marvel mystery oil helps lubricate the fuel pump and the entire system. Its definitely a good thing, but it obviously doesnt just stick around in there forever, but imo for it to be helping it would need to be added every time you fill up.
From what I've gathered MM does alot more for you're fuel then it does for you're oil.
It keeps the fuel fresher for longer. The idle and acceleration is much more smoother. Also the fuel consumption is less.
I once made fun of an old guy that told me he mixed a tiny bit of 2 stroke oil in his 4 stroke motorcycle fuel tank. Now, given these results, i think the joke might have been me...
@@redpillforrealbrasil1405 yes this is effective and only requires about an ounce per 10 gallons for enormous benefits
Make sure to use JASO-FD two stroke oil if you do this.
(And use the cheapest jaso-fd you can find)
@@YourFriendlyHoodVampire alright got that, but why?
@@redpillforrealbrasil1405 mostly because it is ashless when it burns;
The only thing it will leave behind on the cylinder wall is an oil film.
I add 6oz of 2 cycle oil to my 25 gallons fuel tank. Clean injectors, quiet fuel pump, better engine compression.
Is there a fuel modifier that I can personally add to my tank every time I get fuel if so could you please do a video on something related to that
Maybe something like Marvel Mystery Oil?
Sunoco 91 or 94 does wonders for my truck. Still running strong and clean
Dude thank you for this. I've always used premium gas in my engines no matter what for the additional additives. I've been using Shell premium gas for years in my Hemi Magnum. I like knowing that the fuel is good and top tier gas. Too many people complain about the cost yet will waste their money on fast food. Give up one meal for your engine. Cars and trucks and car services is too expensive. Be nice to your engine and feed it good fuel. In the long run it will pay off. I love nailing pedal in my Magnum never hearing preignition knocking and knowing it's getting the best gas I can put in it. My tailpipes are clean as a whistle.
Definitely time for a fuel comparison video
Premium fuel also improves performance even if the engine does not require premium fuel. I can feel the difference, the engine just feels like it has more power.
Your statement has been disproven many times over. Unless your vehicle can sense the differences and then adjust accordingly, it will make no difference. There is no more energy in premium fuel vs regular. Premium fuel only has different additives and higher octane. Octane does not make power, it increases detonation and preignition resistance.
@@jakeyoung2092 Most cars have a knock sensor, variable valve, and other variable timings. It’s not crazy to assume that many people’s cars can already adjust.
For some reason, my GF’s little 4-banger non-turbo takes premium since it uses aggressive timings, but it’ll run on 87 but does feel slower.
Most modern cars have VVT.@@jakeyoung2092
@@jakeyoung2092here's where u are incorrect.. the reason premium makes a vehicle seem to get more power, is the extra cleaning being done with the extra detergents....while it doesn't give the vehicle more power technically, the extra cleaning will remove more deposits resulting in "more power"
@@gianni_schicchi so that's a 'no'. Naturally asirated engines that are designed to run on 87 will run on 91 no problem, but will be less optimal since detonation was calibrated for 87. Yes, naturally aspirated engines will vary the timing to accommodate things like dilution and contamination, but it will not increase power & efficiency with 91.
A turbo engine can vary how much pressure it's pushing so it can actually increase power under a higher octane fuel. But not a naturally aspirated one that's been designed for 87.
So this must be the reason LPG powered engines last so much longer. Try to include this in your future videos if possible. I know there used to be many propane powered trucks in USA.
Great point!!!
Which Fuel company has the best fuel additives?
gawd... I am so glad I stumbled across the earlier videos I saw of yours. I am now a raving fan of pretty much anything you post. This is one area, in this video, I have been clamoring about for years - but nobody seems to care about my rantings about the impact of fuel on the engine oil. Especially when there is an unexpected intrusion of fuel into the crankcase (leaking fuel pump diaphragm that dumps gasoline into the sump). Even the fairly easy to disregard impact of fuel on oil in the piston ring grooves as opposed to oil in th emain sump and other parts of the engine. That, of course, leads me into discussing the positive impact of the PCV system, to help keep oil from becoming unduly contaminated by fuel. Anyway, what do I know? Well, I know this - you have well validated some of what I have been harping on for years - common sense stuff that is born out in labs where solid proof reigns supreme. Very cool...
Thanks!
Finally a proper explanation about a question I’ve had for a while now! I’ve been using a combo of Shell and Redline in my DD since 2019 - my engine shows virtually no wear.
People taunt me about using only 91-93 Octane premium fuel in my 2018 Kia Soul ! 1.6L turbo and use Amsoil Signature series oil and filter changes every 5000 miles. (I don't believe in extended mileage oil change intervals because even at 5000 miles, the oil is black from the turbo heat and the engine sounds so smooth after I change it as well as I can hear the turbo singing its high RPM songs after a oil change.) I have 167,000 miles on the engine and have had no trouble with my turbo, block, valves, cams, sensors, rings. This video proves my point. It does make a difference in wear and just sheer driving enjoyment. Every now and then I add a bottle of Amsoil Performance Improver to a full tank to (as you described in the video) protect the rings and seats. I know the KIA mechanic personally at my KIA dealership and the last time I brought it in for some front end work he commented on the lack of varnish on the parts of the engine he inspected. Told me, "What ever you are doing, keep doing it." He said he showed the other techs there my engine condition and wished everybody would take care of their motors like I do.
I have a kia sorento and only use Mobil 1 oil and mobil or exxon gas
And then everyone clapped! I was there
Are there additives the end user can add to basic fuel to reduce wear? If so, are they cost effective, and how do wear results compare with premium fuels?
I wonder if using premium fuel and oil is cost-effective for the average consumer. Having an engine and drive train that lasts longer than the rest of the vehicle may not be useful.
Has diesel fuel quality been studied relative to wear?
Keep up the good work!
I was also wondering what the end user could do? I would like to learn more about additives a person could add to gasoline, and how it affects things.
More in depth fuel videos including brands Dave 15:09
My 2024 Subaru BRZ recommends in its owner’s manual 93+ or 91 minimum if 93 is not available. In my state the only gas station that sells 93 octane is Sunoco (their Ultra variant). Additionally I add Techron Complete every 3 months. (Annual mileage 4.5-5k; oil will be changed every 6 months = 2.5k). I wish I had Shell available in 93 or higher octane.
I have never had or seen a vehicle die because of a "worn out" engine. Vehicles are complex, usually what kills vehicles is a bunch of small things. I have never seen a car die actually from a worn out engine or worn out piston rings.
There are like thousands of other ways a car can fail and that's why they fail.
"But the manual says you only need 87!" is what many people decry. What it actually says is 87 octane or higher, 87 being the bare minimum.
Higher octane is intended for lower compression engines. It has nothing to do with being a better fuel. I put 93 in my civic si because it is a turbo charged engine that call a for high octane. My Tacoma on the other hand is ment to run on 87 being a high compression engine.