I think a lot of people associate being 'dominant' with setting boundaries for behaviour. You can set the boundary for your personal space without dominating; like you said you were doing so in a passive, respectful way, not with force, but enforcing that boundary nonetheless. And it seems like Mocha is well on her way to doing just that, setting boundaries and respecting them from others, too.
Yes, but I believe that you still have to be the dominant entity in the relationship in the end. Give and take is vital of course, but in the end the appearance of dominance is the controller of space and safety.
Another great video that I wish could reach the masses. Your amazing herd is living proof that one can train with the utmost respect, calm, gentleness, and love for these glorious animals....for ANY animals for that matter. I got many laughs from these goofballs this morning. Such joys to watch. 🥰 Enjoy your beautiful day!
Thanks! Me too. We'll see how it goes. I appreciate the compliments for the horses and herd! I think they're pretty cool too. I'm glad you enjoyed this one :)
It is very sad in the horse world today ( and even yesteryear ). How the horse it treated. Most people think they have to be " man handled ". I know it was that way when I was a young horse person. I am now 66. I am so glad that some people have learned a new way of being with their horse instead of bullying them. The horse is the most forgiving animal next to a dog. My prayer is that this calm way of working with horse will spread world wide. God bless all your efforts and all the wonderful video's you take time to make and show to us. Have a great horsey day!!!!!
Thank you very much! Yes, it's still prevalent in the horse world today and plenty of people just love it, look at the audience for a rodeo for just one example.
Nice insight, Graeme. I love how your thinking about horses evolves and builds on more and more observation. A sign of growth and critical thinking. Cheers!
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this. I’m interested in the same thing but more so with dogs . The ‘alpha theory’ and obsession with dominance is very much prevalent in the dog world too. One instance that is coming to mind is when I was told by a person to never let your dog walk through a doorway first as this will make them think they’re the leader. And I did that, for many years. Sure sometimes it was a safety thing but most of the time it was just because I was told so. Then one day I thought about it and really it just felt silly. I tried putting myself in the dogs thoughts, why did they want through the garden gate first? It was to check for squirrels, nothing to do with me. Why did they want into the kitchen before me? It’s dinner time and they’re excited to eat! It’s an odd thing us humans do. I don’t think a relationship with your pet can ever be very fun or loving if you are constantly interpreting their behaviour as a personal attack on you. Very interesting to think about.
I think with dogs it's a bit different as the mind of the dog is predatory instead of prey based. So we must consider that. A dog will protect it's space and owner to the detriment of the dog (they may get put down if they hurt another human) so it's absolutely vital that they can listen to commands both verbal and visual. That takes time and takes an ability to hold pure confidence in the space so that they dog knows they don't have to do the protecting and can relax.
There is a behaviour called passive aggression as opposed to active aggression. May be one can distinguish the same different attitude concerning dominance: Passive dominance (in this case protecting your safe circle) as opposed to active dominance (telling a horse what to do).
Human interpretation of dominance, I believe, is completely different than what exists in the natural order. From my own experience, I found intent and follow through of that intent to be a more accurate marker. In herds of all manner I have seen the 'dominant' individual to be the calmest, quietest and watchful of all. Only if action is needed do they intervene and then the intent is very clear, concise and follow through is made so there can be no misunderstanding of the situation. Too much emphasis is made for the human to be the dominant in any animal relationship. Consistent rules, boundaries and limitations that keep a person and animal safe are a better guidepost in my humble opinion. I see many animals exhibit that boundary and limitation in almost all of their interactions with one another. To be fair, I may carry a bias because of teachings I had early in life. A warning or caveat that I was given when I was very young was that the Creator has given every animal upon the earth their own wisdom and to learn about ourselves we must seek that wisdom. So my interpretation may be suspect because I took that caveat to heart and therefore viewed interactions through that lens all my life.
I've noticed a lot of our obsession with Dominance has to do with a lot of peoples obsession with control and I have no idea why so many people want to just..control things. It might be becasue I am lazy but I find its so much work to force control or be dominate over something often causing more issues. Like its so much easier to be a friend with a horse cus you don't have to spend extra money buying things like big bits martingales and wasting time chasing a horse in a circle for an hour to be safe to ride,sure maybe you give up a lot of time at first building up that relationship ..but like is int that the whole point of a horse? to spend lots of time with it? Like being able to ride your horse is a privilege. I remember my auntie tried really hard to make me a barrel racing ( cus she wanted to live vicariously through me ) and I remember having a bad time for a lot of reasons but the big one being everyone was so focused with control and proving how much control they had and it always looked like such a waste of energy to me, and I didn't last long on that side which was good for me becasue I was very stressed in that environment.
It's a culture and a lot of people love it, that's why there are those that just love the rodeo for example. There is an unlimited amount of force control to watch and cheer on there. The thing about it though is that it's very dangerous. Agreed that you can't be lazy if you want to take that route in life! Also, it's a culture to not spend quality time with a horse. For a lot of owners a horse is to be used, not to have as a companion like a dog or cat. Riding a horse changes the whole dynamic for many.
@@StableHorseTraining Culture is such a good way to call it! I really did not know the word for it but yes Rodeo culture is a good term for it! certainly an exhausting and sad culture for me I'd say. And I have noticed that horses are treated as less pets and more tools still which is quite sad, especially since thees people often claim "horses are just big dogs" Yet they treat the two animals with different levels of care. Bothers me when thees types claim to love horses when they just love horse riding. But I will say on a more positive note your videos are very refreshing as it is nice to see such a different side of horses and its nice to see, You and other people simply loving horses for what they are simply horses.
Look like yoka has taught Mocha well. I still think meatball is still my favourite. He tries and tries to be the leader but just can’t finesse it. Makes him the one friend that everyone likes but gets irritated when he goes overboard. He so quirky. I think he’s so adorable. Question: why do horses paw at the ground?
He's so much fun, I love watching him work his way around everybody. Pawing is a form of communication with strong intent. What that intent is changes each time. In the case that you watched here, it's a way to be a bit noisy to get the nibbling on the leg to stop and then finally he moves his head to "attack". Usually it's a way for a horse to get attention for food, scratches, to be let out etc.
What great weather, about time too. Love the blossom round and about the arena. Thanks for posting a fascinating video, packed with learning opportunities and entertainment 👍 We had one nice day yesterday in ages of rain, then another soggy morning today. Being retired now the weather is of less importance, I am so fortunate to be able to enjoy time with my horse "at leisure" instead of before and after a shift! Your channel is just great and brings an extra smile to my day. I find that the dominance factor has become less important to mine and my horse's relationship over the years and as time has passed she knows what's what (and me too) so we rub along nicely, mostly. If she gets even a bit in my space I am on it straight away tho' it usually just takes a glance at the overstepped foot to move it to the right place. That took a long time with persistence being rewarded in the end 🍾
Thank you! I'm really glad you're enjoying your time here :) Yes, that's the key I think as well, just time, patience and consistency towards a balanced relationship.
This was great! Growing up with horses “dominance” was not a thing in my circles. Watching modern trainers in videos has been wild (not in a good way lol). Really appreciate you sharing your take on the subject. Also if it is ok to ask - how tall is Mr. Wilde now? He has grown into such a handsome horse!
Another fascinating insight! I do so enjoy your videos, bright moments in my day! Thank you😊 each one of these characters are so interesting, your explanations are so good and well timed, each video I watch. Tx again!
I think too, and in watching your horses. They sort of create their own safety bubble. 🤔 what do you think? I’m an empath human, and I see the behavior and nature of humans and animals. All you have to do is watch for a while sit with them and listen. Of course I’m not just talking about horses, and safety with horses is paramount, but I believe in a liberty relationship with all creatures, Taking good care to be safe.❤❤❤
Yes, I agree with that, Horses are always keeping their bubble super safe, that's why we see videos here and there of people getting bit when walking by stalls. They're just trying to stay safe.
It's really sad how "dominant" is being confused with "boundary setting". I was always the quiet and shy horse girlie growing up, and the grown ups kept telling me to "be firm" and "show the horse who's boss" and it always felt to wrong to me, deep in my stomach. Turns out, I didn't need to boss the horse around. I needed to learn how to create and maintain healthy boundaries with "pushy" or "testy" horses. I needed to learn how to communicate to an insecure horse that it could trust me to keep it safe, so that it could relax. No-one really taught me that while I was growing up. I seem to form attachments to horses that are old and tired, or rather, they form attachments to me. I have soft hands and don't like to push. I'm naturally quiet and gentle. More prone to melancholy than anxiety. I guess the horses who have been janked around their entire lives find relief and comfort in that. Downside is they're not my horses, and they're old, and they tend to not be around for much longer after I've met them. I'm not really around horses anymore, so these videos bring me comfort.
I can't even remember the last time I rode him to be honest. It was good, he never causes me trouble. In my books, that's fun, I'm not sure what fun is in your books though :)
I think to be assertive, you must display dominance, even if it's just for that moment, but it shows you are willing to go there, which is what makes a person a dominant entity.
I think assertiveness applies more in human interactions. With horses, the human needs to be dominant over the horse. It is not a bad or negative thing. Showing dominance in a respectful and effective manner over a horse teaches it to respect you. It's a matter of safety with an animal that could literally kill you. A well-known UA-camr was kicked in the face by a two-year old filly a couple of months ago resulting in a concussion and multiple loss of teeth and possible nerve damage. She has had three surgeries and now has almost fully recovered, thankfully. She and her husband are novice horse owners that run an animal sanctuary. This filly, which appears to be a full or part Thoroughbred, has been a problem from the first time she was dropped off there last year and has been very dominant over the people there by pinning her ears to them, biting and kicking out. We experienced horse owners who watched this happen over the last six months have advised them numerous times how to fix this behavior, but to no avail. They have simply refused and say they are just there to love them and take care of them, which resulted in this person almost losing her life when she surprised the horse when she went into her stall very early in the morning when it was still dark out. In this case, this filly is dominating them in every interaction they have with her, and they are continuing to let her by not properly teaching her to respect their space.
It's people like you "experienced horse owners" that perpetuate that a horse is being dominant when in fact it's likely being protective. I don't know what "youtuber" got kicked in the face (I don't want to either), but I can GUARANTEE that horse did not feel safe around that human. But many people will jump in and say that she should have been more "dominant" with that filly. It's obsessive... and weird and literally causes horses to do that to people. If people would just work that same amount on making sure that a horse feels safe, they'd never get kicked again. A horse protecting their space is normal.
Glad Mocha had a good teacher in Yoka.
Made my day happier just being with the herd!
Always! ❤
I think a lot of people associate being 'dominant' with setting boundaries for behaviour. You can set the boundary for your personal space without dominating; like you said you were doing so in a passive, respectful way, not with force, but enforcing that boundary nonetheless. And it seems like Mocha is well on her way to doing just that, setting boundaries and respecting them from others, too.
Yes, but I believe that you still have to be the dominant entity in the relationship in the end. Give and take is vital of course, but in the end the appearance of dominance is the controller of space and safety.
Another great video that I wish could reach the masses. Your amazing herd is living proof that one can train with the utmost respect, calm, gentleness, and love for these glorious animals....for ANY animals for that matter.
I got many laughs from these goofballs this morning. Such joys to watch. 🥰
Enjoy your beautiful day!
Thanks! Me too. We'll see how it goes.
I appreciate the compliments for the horses and herd! I think they're pretty cool too. I'm glad you enjoyed this one :)
It is very sad in the horse world today ( and even yesteryear ). How the horse it treated. Most people think they have to be " man handled ". I know it was that way when I was a young horse person. I am now 66. I am so glad that some people have learned a new way of being with their horse instead of bullying them. The horse is the most forgiving animal next to a dog. My prayer is that this calm way of working with horse will spread world wide. God bless all your efforts and all the wonderful video's you take time to make and show to us. Have a great horsey day!!!!!
Thank you very much! Yes, it's still prevalent in the horse world today and plenty of people just love it, look at the audience for a rodeo for just one example.
I couldn't agree more! I have learned so much from Graeme and his herd.
Nice insight, Graeme. I love how your thinking about horses evolves and builds on more and more observation. A sign of growth and critical thinking. Cheers!
Thank you Ayeda :)
I agree. Horses' eyes are very fascinating. Would love to know what they are thinking sometimes.
Thank you, Graeme. This was a delightful video not only to watch, but to listen to as well. Little Mocha is growing up!
I'm really glad you enjoyed it!
Boundaries are important to communicate, animals and humans alike. I agree with being assertive like the other commentor noted
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this. I’m interested in the same thing but more so with dogs . The ‘alpha theory’ and obsession with dominance is very much prevalent in the dog world too. One instance that is coming to mind is when I was told by a person to never let your dog walk through a doorway first as this will make them think they’re the leader. And I did that, for many years. Sure sometimes it was a safety thing but most of the time it was just because I was told so. Then one day I thought about it and really it just felt silly. I tried putting myself in the dogs thoughts, why did they want through the garden gate first? It was to check for squirrels, nothing to do with me. Why did they want into the kitchen before me? It’s dinner time and they’re excited to eat! It’s an odd thing us humans do. I don’t think a relationship with your pet can ever be very fun or loving if you are constantly interpreting their behaviour as a personal attack on you. Very interesting to think about.
I think with dogs it's a bit different as the mind of the dog is predatory instead of prey based. So we must consider that. A dog will protect it's space and owner to the detriment of the dog (they may get put down if they hurt another human) so it's absolutely vital that they can listen to commands both verbal and visual. That takes time and takes an ability to hold pure confidence in the space so that they dog knows they don't have to do the protecting and can relax.
@@StableHorseTraining agreed👍👍 well said
I prefer my dog to go first out the door or downstairs so I don't trip over her or she doesn't push past me. She moves faster than I do these days!
Lots to ponder on here. Dominance or protecting personal space or just playing. Your videos are so thought provoking Greame.
Thank you Paula :)
There is a behaviour called passive aggression as opposed to active aggression. May be one can distinguish the same different attitude concerning dominance: Passive dominance (in this case protecting your safe circle) as opposed to active dominance (telling a horse what to do).
I think it's something like that too
Thank you for the video Graeme! I absolutely love watching herd behavior, and truly love just watching them be horses❣🐎
Human interpretation of dominance, I believe, is completely different than what exists in the natural order. From my own experience, I found intent and follow through of that intent to be a more accurate marker. In herds of all manner I have seen the 'dominant' individual to be the calmest, quietest and watchful of all. Only if action is needed do they intervene and then the intent is very clear, concise and follow through is made so there can be no misunderstanding of the situation. Too much emphasis is made for the human to be the dominant in any animal relationship. Consistent rules, boundaries and limitations that keep a person and animal safe are a better guidepost in my humble opinion. I see many animals exhibit that boundary and limitation in almost all of their interactions with one another. To be fair, I may carry a bias because of teachings I had early in life. A warning or caveat that I was given when I was very young was that the Creator has given every animal upon the earth their own wisdom and to learn about ourselves we must seek that wisdom. So my interpretation may be suspect because I took that caveat to heart and therefore viewed interactions through that lens all my life.
I agree 100% with all of that, great summary of how healthy herd life works.
I've noticed a lot of our obsession with Dominance has to do with a lot of peoples obsession with control and I have no idea why so many people want to just..control things. It might be becasue I am lazy but I find its so much work to force control or be dominate over something often causing more issues. Like its so much easier to be a friend with a horse cus you don't have to spend extra money buying things like big bits martingales and wasting time chasing a horse in a circle for an hour to be safe to ride,sure maybe you give up a lot of time at first building up that relationship ..but like is int that the whole point of a horse? to spend lots of time with it? Like being able to ride your horse is a privilege.
I remember my auntie tried really hard to make me a barrel racing ( cus she wanted to live vicariously through me ) and I remember having a bad time for a lot of reasons but the big one being everyone was so focused with control and proving how much control they had and it always looked like such a waste of energy to me, and I didn't last long on that side which was good for me becasue I was very stressed in that environment.
It's a culture and a lot of people love it, that's why there are those that just love the rodeo for example. There is an unlimited amount of force control to watch and cheer on there. The thing about it though is that it's very dangerous. Agreed that you can't be lazy if you want to take that route in life!
Also, it's a culture to not spend quality time with a horse. For a lot of owners a horse is to be used, not to have as a companion like a dog or cat. Riding a horse changes the whole dynamic for many.
@@StableHorseTraining Culture is such a good way to call it! I really did not know the word for it but yes Rodeo culture is a good term for it! certainly an exhausting and sad culture for me I'd say.
And I have noticed that horses are treated as less pets and more tools still which is quite sad, especially since thees people often claim "horses are just big dogs" Yet they treat the two animals with different levels of care. Bothers me when thees types claim to love horses when they just love horse riding.
But I will say on a more positive note your videos are very refreshing as it is nice to see such a different side of horses and its nice to see, You and other people simply loving horses for what they are simply horses.
Thank you :) Yes, the majority of horse owners treat their horse as tool for their own designs.
I've been away for a while busy working but this made me click. Thanks Graeme 😊
Look like yoka has taught Mocha well. I still think meatball is still my favourite. He tries and tries to be the leader but just can’t finesse it. Makes him the one friend that everyone likes but gets irritated when he goes overboard. He so quirky. I think he’s so adorable.
Question: why do horses paw at the ground?
He's so much fun, I love watching him work his way around everybody.
Pawing is a form of communication with strong intent. What that intent is changes each time. In the case that you watched here, it's a way to be a bit noisy to get the nibbling on the leg to stop and then finally he moves his head to "attack".
Usually it's a way for a horse to get attention for food, scratches, to be let out etc.
Very good video, it's so good to see Mocha growing up with the herd! 💖
What great weather, about time too. Love the blossom round and about the arena. Thanks for posting a fascinating video, packed with learning opportunities and entertainment 👍 We had one nice day yesterday in ages of rain, then another soggy morning today. Being retired now the weather is of less importance, I am so fortunate to be able to enjoy time with my horse "at leisure" instead of before and after a shift! Your channel is just great and brings an extra smile to my day. I find that the dominance factor has become less important to mine and my horse's relationship over the years and as time has passed she knows what's what (and me too) so we rub along nicely, mostly. If she gets even a bit in my space I am on it straight away tho' it usually just takes a glance at the overstepped foot to move it to the right place. That took a long time with persistence being rewarded in the end 🍾
Thank you! I'm really glad you're enjoying your time here :) Yes, that's the key I think as well, just time, patience and consistency towards a balanced relationship.
Mochas mane is getting longer. She’s such a pretty horse.
This was great! Growing up with horses “dominance” was not a thing in my circles. Watching modern trainers in videos has been wild (not in a good way lol). Really appreciate you sharing your take on the subject.
Also if it is ok to ask - how tall is Mr. Wilde now? He has grown into such a handsome horse!
This video make my hard day less hard ❤
Thanks!
Thank you very much!
What a nice video. You have a new subscriber 🙂 hope to cruise your videos and get to know each horse. Love from Denmark 🇩🇰 ps: I already love Annie ❤
thank you :) Welcome!
Another fascinating insight! I do so enjoy your videos, bright moments in my day! Thank you😊 each one of these characters are so interesting, your explanations are so good and well timed, each video I watch. Tx again!
Very important topic. Thanks for sharing.
I think too, and in watching your horses. They sort of create their own safety bubble. 🤔 what do you think?
I’m an empath human, and I see the behavior and nature of humans and animals. All you have to do is watch for a while sit with them and listen. Of course I’m not just talking about horses, and safety with horses is paramount, but I believe in a liberty relationship with all creatures, Taking good care to be safe.❤❤❤
Yes, I agree with that, Horses are always keeping their bubble super safe, that's why we see videos here and there of people getting bit when walking by stalls. They're just trying to stay safe.
Love it, what in the heck were Mr Wilde and Rooney doing 😂
It's really sad how "dominant" is being confused with "boundary setting". I was always the quiet and shy horse girlie growing up, and the grown ups kept telling me to "be firm" and "show the horse who's boss" and it always felt to wrong to me, deep in my stomach. Turns out, I didn't need to boss the horse around. I needed to learn how to create and maintain healthy boundaries with "pushy" or "testy" horses. I needed to learn how to communicate to an insecure horse that it could trust me to keep it safe, so that it could relax. No-one really taught me that while I was growing up.
I seem to form attachments to horses that are old and tired, or rather, they form attachments to me. I have soft hands and don't like to push. I'm naturally quiet and gentle. More prone to melancholy than anxiety. I guess the horses who have been janked around their entire lives find relief and comfort in that. Downside is they're not my horses, and they're old, and they tend to not be around for much longer after I've met them.
I'm not really around horses anymore, so these videos bring me comfort.
❤
Annie has a beautiful mane!
The wildies seem to be the most active today. Is Mr Wilde fun to ride?
I can't even remember the last time I rode him to be honest. It was good, he never causes me trouble. In my books, that's fun, I'm not sure what fun is in your books though :)
You are ASSERTIVE not dominant. Assertive means you would protect your space and communicate your intent.
I think to be assertive, you must display dominance, even if it's just for that moment, but it shows you are willing to go there, which is what makes a person a dominant entity.
Respect perhaps. Two creatures must balance desire with respect.
I think assertiveness applies more in human interactions. With horses, the human needs to be dominant over the horse. It is not a bad or negative thing. Showing dominance in a respectful and effective manner over a horse teaches it to respect you. It's a matter of safety with an animal that could literally kill you. A well-known UA-camr was kicked in the face by a two-year old filly a couple of months ago resulting in a concussion and multiple loss of teeth and possible nerve damage. She has had three surgeries and now has almost fully recovered, thankfully. She and her husband are novice horse owners that run an animal sanctuary.
This filly, which appears to be a full or part Thoroughbred, has been a problem from the first time she was dropped off there last year and has been very dominant over the people there by pinning her ears to them, biting and kicking out. We experienced horse owners who watched this happen over the last six months have advised them numerous times how to fix this behavior, but to no avail. They have simply refused and say they are just there to love them and take care of them, which resulted in this person almost losing her life when she surprised the horse when she went into her stall very early in the morning when it was still dark out. In this case, this filly is dominating them in every interaction they have with her, and they are continuing to let her by not properly teaching her to respect their space.
It's people like you "experienced horse owners" that perpetuate that a horse is being dominant when in fact it's likely being protective. I don't know what "youtuber" got kicked in the face (I don't want to either), but I can GUARANTEE that horse did not feel safe around that human. But many people will jump in and say that she should have been more "dominant" with that filly. It's obsessive... and weird and literally causes horses to do that to people. If people would just work that same amount on making sure that a horse feels safe, they'd never get kicked again. A horse protecting their space is normal.
Oh my goodness, Gracie is so dirty. Still think she is so beautiful. ❤
😊💖🕊
Dominance or assertiveness? Is there a difference with those in horse behavior?
you can't be assertive without being dominant.
You said there was something interesting about Gracie’s behavior lately and then didn’t get to tell us what you meant 😅❤
No people turn it into dominance and abuse!@ OMG😭😭😭😭😭🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🧁