The Gender Pay Gap in 2022 (Claudia Goldin Interview)
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- Опубліковано 4 сер 2024
- --Claudia Goldin, Professor of Economics at Harvard University and author of the new book "Career and Family: Women’s Century-Long Journey toward Equity," joins David to discuss the gender pay gap and more. Get the book: amzn.to/3LmwlvT
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Broadcast on March 29, 2022
#davidpakmanshow #women #claudiagoldin
Calling it a gender pay gap is slightly misleading, because it is more a case that women aren't getting the top jobs than women aren't being paid the same as men for the same jobs (which should be illegal if it is not). And the question then is, do enough women desire to take those positions, but aren't getting the opportunity, and if they are not getting the opportunity what needs to be done to help address that imbalance, but if there simply isn't enough women with the desire to take the highest paying positions, does more need to be done to address that or should we just accept that it is a natural gender difference (or a product of environment difference)? 🤷♂️
and women are making different life and career decisions, it’s not an issue.
There is no gender pay gap. It's been illegal for 50 years!
If there was pay gap (defined as having women earn less for the same work), there would be an increased incentive to hire women because, from the businesses point of view, women are cheaper labour. This would result in women’s wages increasing and the pay gap disappearing.
Saying there is a pay gap makes as much economic sense as saying that people are willing to pay more for gold from some countries than they are from others. It makes no sense.
Hey guys! I just came up with a great idea! Let's get together and start a company that hires only women. We would have a huge competitive advantage over our competitors because we won't have to pay our employees as much because of the gender pay gap!
We will be billionaires! Who's with me?!
@@cremelynn6339 I find a disproportionate number of my Amazon delivery drivers to be women. Seems like Jeff is taking advantage of that, but then again, I haven't asked thier gender. Is this something we should address? Is there a gender pay gap?
@@ikilledthemoon so when men take time off for surgery's, their pay goes down?
Please send a link to that information.
This ignorant argument has not been proven by any economic study, has been debunked by David in other videos, and is literally debunked in this video.
@@ninij9692 what?
Great conversation! More academic interviews!
The issues discussed in this interview are absolutely critical and need to be addressed, but why frame it in terms of the 'wage gap' rather than general societal issues?
How to close the Gender Pay gap: have women work the same number of days/hours per year as men. It really is that simple. That is what causes the pay gap. Women take more time off and go unpaid during those times than men. The number one cause of the pay gap: Taking time off to raise children. That isn't sexism, that is the actual cause of the pay gap.
here's another way: redefine what it is to be a woman.
:)
Err, women without children, that work the same number of days as men do experience a pay gap.
@@pixie6133 right. in many cases, they actually earn more than men. these ladies are tough as nails.
Have you links to studies that support this thesis?
I would very-much like to read about this and what the real numbers say.
Anecdotally, this is not what I, as a health care professional, have observed, but anecdote isn’t evidence.
Thank you, @Evirthewarrior
An even larger consideration is the cumulative impact of the gender wage gap on all women working full time in the United States. Collectively, more than 55 million full-time working women earned an estimated $545.7 billion less than their male counterparts in 2019.20 If the gender wage gap had been closed entirely, this would have meant an additional $545.7 billion in the pockets of working women and their families-about $9,613.13 per woman-to cover student loan payments, mortgage payments, child care costs, prescription costs, groceries, emergency expenses, and more
so the difference in their payment is basically because of difference in "greed", so it's not because of gender
I didn’t watch the entire video but I didn’t hear any acknowledgment about the biological differences between men and women. It’s no coincidence that it’s women who usually choose to work less demanding careers and focus on their children. It’s not societal - it’s a biological instinct. Can you imagine a primate species evolving where the mothers aren’t instinctively caring for their infants and children? Women have breasts for a reason. My wife and I both are highly paid professionals. She’d like nothing more than to cut back and work less hours to spend time with the children but because this is looked down from a societal perspective- she works full time and is constantly stressed trying to juggle work and family.
She said that we're basically paid the same in the beginning but a reason women are getting paid less later on, is because they go to less demanding jobs while the male counterpart stays in the high demanding better paid job. So basically, it's a matter of choice, in some cases just the woman's or in other cases the couple's decision. How is that a systemic issue. Choose to be in a more demanding field and you'll be paid more.
Exactly.
She’s confirmed the findings of every gender pay gap critic have been saying for a decade and they gave her a Nobel Prize - guess why ? Because she’s a woman.
The notion that it's a "choice" is not entirely true. Societal expectations about gender roles shape that "choice" and put women at a disadvantage economically. And not everybody understands that raising your own children means stunting your employment opportunities later in life, salary and amount of pension you receive in retirement
@@user-xv3xr2ig3e If the societal expectations hypothesis were true, we would expect to find that in more socially egalitarian countries men and women choose the most similar jobs. Yet we find precisely the opposite. The more socially egalitarian the country, the more _different_ men and women's choices are.
@synchronium24
I'm not trying to say that preferences between genders do not exist at all. I'm saying that people's choices are influenced by societal pressures and structures such as gender norms and parental leave structures. I personally would not prefer my wife be the main breadwinner because I do care about how people perceive me as a man.
The outcomes of choosing one option over another are different for men and women. And ultimately it tends to result in disadvantaged economic outcomes for women especially if their male partner leaves.
The way I have read this comment is that these structures which disadvantage women economically in the long term do not need to be changed because women or couples chose for the woman to be the primary caregiver and so must deal with the consequences. We as a society have the ability to organise structures better to give fairer or more balanced outcomes for both men and women.
This myth still going round?
Blue Anon has many conspiracy theories.
So say Joseph, Kevin, and Peter...experts on the subject.
@@pixie6133 so says any one that understands you cant do a uni-varient analysis on something and expect for rational people go along with it. Numerous multi variant analysis have been done and each one shows that the claim of "men make more than women because of gender" to be false.
@@chesterlestrange7725 Oh, that's interesting. Please provide the sources...
@@chesterlestrange7725 Go ahead and post it here friend. Enlighten all of us eager to learn. 😉
Funny how it is brave to speak common sense in regards to the gender "pay gap". Good job Packman.
Pakman has always been skeptical of the wage gap for reasons unknown. Pretty sure one reason he brought this professor on was he thought she'd agree with him on this but she did the opposite. Hopefully she gave him a good reason to change his thinking.
I like her term "greedy jobs", where you need to work long hours at high levels of stress. Unfortunately I have one of those jobs.
So quit and find an easier job.
@@jkovert Unfortunately it`s the nature of my profession.
@@Alex_Plante Find a different profession.
@@jkovert too late.
@@Alex_Plante It's never too late to stop complaining.
While we're talking about gender pay gap, let's talk about gender productivity. Let's also talk about which gender is more likely to sit indoors with air conditioning in hot months and which is more likely to do hard labor outdoors in the sun. Which has laws that allow even the strongest to avoid heavy lifting and which has no laws protecting them irrespective their strength or size.
In looking at college attendance numbers, 60% women, 40% men.
@@kstrazz3552 uhhhh, you can lead a horse to water?
@@kstrazz3552 that’s not inequity because it’s an individual option based upon personal, not societal, choices.
@@pixie6133 Because women get special grants just for being women.
@@KV-nh1ts Holy crap! Really? Where do I sign up? I've never had one of those. Still paying my student loans...
Actually, both complaints about childcare are true. The costs keep going up, while wages for the childcare workers are appallingly low & have not kept up with the tuition charged to parents. There are a LOT of greedy daycare center owners getting rich off raising their rates while not compensating ECE teachers fairly for the incredibly demanding & important work they do. I don’t see why there can’t be state-run, affordable childcare centers that cut out the middleman & profit motive 🤷🏻♀️
Thank you for holding this conversation. So many factors and difficult questions that have to be asked. As a liberal and statistician, I've felt pulled in opposing directions for years now on this. There's so much more to it than just "77c on the $1", but that's not to diminish the reality.
Hey guys! I just came up with a great idea! Let's get together and start a company that hires only women. We would have a huge competitive advantage over our competitors because we won't have to pay our employees as much because of the gender pay gap!
We will be billionaires! Who's with me?!
@@cremelynn6339 "start a company that hires only women"
Wouldn't that be discriminatory
?
@@peterbills4129 It's a rhetorical statement. His argument is that if there was a pay gap companies would do that and most workers would be women because companies could pay them less and the fact that this isn't the case means that there is no actual pay gap
@@cremelynn6339 you don’t even have a basic grasp on the gender pay gap
@@cremelynn6339 if men don't get their shxt together women will be the only ones worth hiring... the future idea is happening now....
I really love these interviews that David does. I think it is his best content.
Don't miss his interview with Brian Benjamin.
WTH is the gender pay gap and why is it more important than the 90% of America that makes minimum wage pay gap?
Good interview
Your comment is 5 minutes old, and the interview is over 19 minutes.
How can you rate or judge the interview having not viewed it in it's entirety?
The problem with "comparable work" and confidential salaries is that there are a zillion ways to differentiate jobs re functions and duties. We need steps/tiers standardized factored for years of experience, and unions, for far more jobs.
It's often the case where couples "when they abandon gender equity...throw gender equality under the bus...". That's a pretty loaded statement. Are these couples not embracing the freedom to live their life the way they want? Are women who make this choice necessarily unhappy? And if so, are they more unhappy than their husbands who lost out of birthdays and playtime with their kids? Anyboe, male or female, is free to find a partner who would prioritize their career or who would be willing to assume a stay at home role w/ the kids.
Lastly, is there a "joys of seeing one's family" gap that men suffer from? Goldin fetishizes career in a way that downplays its drawbacks. Why is scaling down one's career necessarily bad or undesirable if it frees up time for more meaningful things? Imagine having a partner who is willing to pour their lifeblood into a stressful job to bring home money so you can work part time and pursue the things you enjoy. It may not be for you but don't pretend it's a one-way street.
The problem is if the society promotes those choices. In the examples she gave, it wasn't truly up to the parents if they wanted to do it or not, they pretty much had to pick one of them to focus on the career and the other one not too.
Yeah, having kids is kind of a lot more difficult than attending a job to go through the motions and only one sex can physically do it, but it doesn't pay anything. Sexism is a huge problem, I just get annoyed with all this dancing around the issues. It's sexual dimorphism and division of labor in reproduction. That's why all politicians say as the architects of society is "Jobs families, families jobs." To hell with their jobs and families. They want more people to exploit, and they want to exploit every individual to the maximum regardless of sex.
@@SquarelyGames But that's nature: the useless male is supposed to bring the female resources during the long period of encephalization that compromises her abilities in that regard. It's lame and sucks, but that's why it's set up like this, not out of mean spirited patriarchal volition per se. Infant mortality was upwards 50% about two centuries ago, and social mores change slowly. It's amazing how malleable they've become, actually. Almost makes me hopeful. Back in the day, societies that didn't forcibly sustain a birth rate of about 8 kids to a fertile woman just got annihilated by their neighbors who did. That's why this mess of a world: reproduction is brutally difficult.
@@SquarelyGames I'm not sure what the alternative is. If you want career advancement 80% isn't going to cut it. In many competitive careers, 100% isn't going to cut it either. You have to stay overtime and work harder than your peers to excel.
This reality brings up a contradiction in her argument. She doesn't like the fact that one partner needs to sacrifice their career for the sake of the family but she also suggests a model where both partners compromise with 80%/80%. Maybe she explains it in her book but why is an 80% career necessarily desirable or adequate for a man or woman who is serious about excelling in their field?
My guess is that there are couple who would do an 80%/80% split if the job conditions were right, but there are other couple who wouldn't see the point. You could play around with hypothetical incentives to make it work but I'm not convinced it would be a realistic solution.
@@SandhillCrane42
"having kids is kind of a lot more difficult than attending a job to go through the motions" Which job? And are we talking about a job or a career? If family expenses are largely shared between husband/wife why do we care who works for it? I.e. it's not that women are necessarily receiving/spending 82 cents to a dollar a man does. From what I can gather from Goldin's brief segment, it's that she is unhappy that women are forced to shelve their career aspirations due to societal and monetary concerns. That's a completely different issue and a problem confined to wealthy couples who have the luxury to choose one partner working less.
"Sexism is a huge problem". In what way specifically? You just said sexual dimorphism is to blame. Nature isn't fair but it can hardly be said to be sexist. Nothing prevents the man from dropping down to part time/stay at home once the baby is born.
Fantastic interview. Claudia also speaks about "economics is about people" and that is SO refreshing... however, what she hasn't (to my knowledge) acknowledged is that you just won't have women forgo the extra time to be with their children.#
- "How2 about I go to work part-time."
- "No, I'd rather be off with the kids!"
- I promise you, no husband argues with this for long. Women also DRIVE this disparity factor - it isn't always a cold, money based decision and it isn't "men deciding women's careers should take a back seat".
A missing piece to this discussion = people! Who'd have thought?! My god.
She mentions construction work but how many women actually want to work in construction ? More should be doing done to encourage women to want to work in construction but at the minute I don’t think there are as many women as there are men trying to get into that area of work.
As of 2018 statistics, one in three companies promoted women to senior roles. Women held at least 31% of the management positions.
"The misery of a whole nation is of less importance than the suffering of a great individual. Women are not as yet capable of friendship, they're Cats or Birds or at best Cows, Man shall be trained for war&the woman for the recreation of the warrior. All else is folly"- Neitnzsche.
Earnings - not wage - gap. Shout out to Dr. Warren Farell.
Very interesting. A lot of factors I had not considered. 🙂
Excellent one
So is total equality a win/win or a lose/lose for hetero couples. I suspect that a lot of what we are seeing right now is that greedy jobs are costing both their families.
In this context, what's the difference between gender equity and gender equality?
Congratulations for the Noble Prize!
Yes construction is a well paying career however it is terrible for your body and no substitute for finding out why men are dropping out of schools. Just for the simple reason that a desk job is better for your body. coming from someone who is an electrician
Go to say I like how they covered all sides of a topic And used straight facts
They missed the pink tax.
@@pixie6133 just looked it up and it kind of is an important issue Now that I would consider true discrimination and a very important issue
@@timothykauffman2442 Awesome that you took the time to look it up and consider the ramifications. 👏
@@pixie6133 and thank you for pointing it out I learned something new today.
@@pixie6133 Doesn’t exist
A year later and she won the Nobel Prize in Economics!!
That's horrifying if her prize is for anything related to the shoddy analysis she gives in this video.
Would like to see her debate Thomas Sowell.
Why not do a video about the food shortages coming
In actual fact the first nuclear war was fought in 1945. Out of it did not come H G Wells and Bertrand Russell's world government, not according to the scenario which Wells laid out, but the American that Simpson and Trueman fears would condem there action, the America that hated the British oligarchy and all that it stood for is long gone. To understand why Russel and Wells were so successful in undermining the foundation of our(American) Republic we must look back in time. Not just to 1945 or 1908, but we must look back over at least 600 years of human history.
ua-cam.com/video/2rNBz_CvYCc/v-deo.html
Interviewing teachers of each grade and into college about how they implement DEI CRT in the classroom would be apriciated, and you have the history that i think they would talk freely about it, aldo the school superintendent in i think charlotte NC was thrown out of position when he seruticisly payed ibram kendy 25000 to speak to a group of probably school employess and bought books for the school and lied about it and may have done some false paperwork to cover it up, one of is underlings went on a leftist radio show and told the truth about how much monet was paid and thats how the public found out, but i cant find any infor.atiin other than the lady on the radio show and news of superintendant geting thrown out for money reasons on local tv
It’s interesting that someone would point out the fact that for 40 years, female college graduation rates were higher than male grant college graduation rates. And she would point out that for 100 years, high school graduation rates have favored women. Then, apparently by way of explaining this, she says that the problem is that men just don’t have their stuff together. Why is it that there are so many more female college students than male? Is it because the education system is skewed against men? Is it because the admission process favors women? No, of course not. It’s because men can’t get their college essays done on time! Really? Is that some thing that is scientifically examined and proven? This is coming from someone who sees a gender pay gap as some sort of external massive systematic oppression. So when men are not achieving equality for 40 or 100 years, it’s because they’re drug addicted slacker criminals. But when women don’t get equal pay, it’s because a bunch of drug addicted slacker criminals are somehow organizing a nationwide or worldwide effort to successfully keep them down.
I can offer a personal anecdote for motivation to achieve a graduate degree. It helps with the gender pay gap. It's the best way to make better money for a woman.
It simple it's not because of her wild assumptions of criminals and drug addicts it's because women are pretty useless in the jobs that really matter the one that make the world go round ( infrastructure jobs ) since women pretty much suck at everything they have the time and willingness to waste some poor guys time and money to go to school and then get a useless degree and still not make as much as a guy who works a trade with no degree plus they have affirmative action and all kinds of help and hand outs because they bleed once a month
Equity and equality are two different things. Equity has never been fair. Equality is a unicorn.
treating people "equally" is not...
Women most certainly can do construction. They may not want to, but they CAN.
I've sat through some of her seminars on microeconomic policy. She's brilliant.
I like the guest
In the early 1980s Harvard wasn’t very generous.
Activity for the algorithm.
sorry
this topic
I just can't anymore
Right?!
Rehashing
patriarchy is
exhausting.
@@pixie6133 Restating bullshit is highly obnoxious
I knew Catholic women in Boston who got degrees 80 years ago. But to marry these woman married below their education.
Work is greedy
Who would have thought?!?!
The solution to this problem is simple....government subsidized sex robots....Please send me my noble prize, thank you!
Jew boy. Turn the phone lines on
The gender pay gap is imaginary, the reason men make more money is men are more willing to work longer hours and women put more emphasis on family, etc
Do you always eat what the likes of Ben Shapiro and Steven crowder shit out or is this a unique feces meal you frequent?
watch the vid first dumdum Harvard proved you wrong.....
cut the military 6udget 6y at least half, and make any one making over a million dollars a year PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE. dock their salaries if that's what it takes. then money can 6e put in to programs to help the working-class and poor, and may 6e other programs that would o6literate poverty entirely. SUCH a simple solution.
If gender is a spectrum and there’s no such thing as a definitive male or female, there can be no pay gap. Gonna have to choose between reality and delusion David 👀
Is this a running joke that i don't know about? Cause that take is brain dead
The typical siren in the background of a George Soros policy city... just pointing that out. Don't censure me!
7:04 this part just aggravated me. When you're publishing a research, you know damn well that those numbers will be insinuated to apply as a whole nationally. You don't get to later say "oh the number is accurate, it's just for these specific circumstances". This is the type of backtracking and accountability avoidance garbage that the mainstream news does all the time and it makes me sick.
The four freedoms.
Pay gap can't be discussed without cost gap. Cover charges, ladies nights, costs of individual products of substantial similarities. I'm surprised a professor of economics didn't address these concepts
Cover charges and ladies nights? What? Personal care products labeled and marketed for women but that are exact (or close enough) replicas of products labeled for men (things like lotions, chafing powder, shower gel, deodorant, shaving cream, razors) are almost always significantly higher priced for women. That's called the "pink tax" if you aren't familiar. Then there's haircuts, dry cleaning, clothing, auto insurance and even auto repairs. Add in the monthly items that men will never need to buy and already you're looking at a significant "cost gap". Add that to the pay gap and women will never have a chance to catch up.
@@terised scholarships overwhelmingly favor women. Cancer public funding covers female parts better than male parts. Family courts favor women. The nickels and dimes of your so called "pink tax" are products where anyone could reasonably purchase a pink or blue product. Places where it matters and it's unavoidable favor females.
Oh, and let's not forget conscription. You want freedoms to earn more? Let me know when you register for the draft.
@@terised Ok, so it’s a “pink tax” of women choose to buy products that are marked up more than equivalent products marketed to men? Sounds like you are calling women stupid, because only an idiot would pay more for basically the same thing. Haircuts and dry cleaning are on average more expensive for women because their hair is longer. What do you wanna do about that?
Also, the whole monthly item thing is dumb. It’s completely fails to consider that there may be things men have to buy that women don’t. Like for example, there is a substantial difference in the amount of food a man has to consume compared to a woman. If you run the numbers, the difference is not trivial. And, in case you didn’t know this, the pay gap doesn’t exist.
Nice job spouting some bullshit though.
@@mgaus Lol I enlisted in the military the summer after high school. When did you join? And auto insurance and repairs aren't nickel and dime items. They can easily add up to tens of thousands over a lifetime. Let me know when you decide to get pregnant and carry a fetus to term.
🤔
"Gender pay gap in 2022." Definitely not watching this bs. Lol. Job for job with the same circumstances, it's a thing of the past. Give it a rest.
Are you familiar with Professor Goldin’s work?
Since you did not watch, I’m suspecting not.
Choosing to remain ignorant...and proudly proclaiming it. Good look.
@@galvanaut7119 I've watched numerous things in the past on this subject. Thanks.
@@goldentaco4970 i've watched the same make believe "things" from the university of phrenology...gfy
I have the same mindset, and it's exactly why I plan on watching it. Everywhere I look I see teenagers BTFO people, claiming women get paid half of what men. I get it shoved down my throat through entertainment I like. All these unqualified people with bias and a desire for attention. Well, here are two people whose only agenda that I can see, is the truth. And if they are right, I don't know. It still ruins the show when out of nowhere a great episode shoehorns an irrelevant political take, I can't deny that, but if it's true I imagine I will find it more palatable. I do feel as though it's a distraction from the economic reality of America though. That is to say the lower classes are struggling to survive. And then there are rich CEO's who want to whine about a glass ceiling preventing them from making 5 million more annually. Meanwhile half the country works for Walmart, the other half Amazon, and they are all making minimum wage. Both things can matter at once, but I'm sorry, maybe this is my bias, I don't care that you feel like you're trapped making less of an absurd fortune than your rich counterparts. People are struggling to survive. I lived in a car in Chicago winters with a fulltime job. My empathy goes with the poor and struggling. None the less giving them a shot.
There is no “gender pay gap.”
There is lmao
@@chrisbrowy929 🤡
First! And interesting 🤔
We need to build an economic system that exploits both sexes equally despite the natural unfairness of sex! We're so close!
How do women have less of an ability to go to a supervisor and ask for a raise? 😂. I can’t believe she said that….
it’s crazy that you think this is some crazy notion, when it’s obvious why those who a) get harassed more and b) grow up in a society that prioritizes men might be less likely to ask/get a promotion or a raise
The Emasculated Men
Narrow it? There shouldn't be a gap at all. It's 2022, not 1940. We need an entirely new generation leading this country.
Yes there should. Women go in to lower paying industries. STEM has minimal women and those industries pay much better than communications and marketing for example
Hey guys! I just came up with a great idea! Let's get together and start a company that hires only women. We would have a huge competitive advantage over our competitors because we won't have to pay our employees as much because of the gender pay gap!
We will be billionaires! Who's with me?!
@@mikecantreed "Women go in to lower paying industries."
Only in countries where gender differences are embraced. If we recognize men can be women, we can find a most equitable forum for discussion.
Do some research on Google or something, this theory is a myth brought on by modern feminism. At first it may seem the case, but when you dig deeper you'll see that it's bs.
@@wisdom9091 no, the Court's figure out how much it cost for the children, and then they take a percentage out of each person's pay to get to that number. There are plenty of women today that pay alimony and child support to ex-husbands.
Women don't like tech.
It's in their DNA.