ralfy review 989 Extras - Why I dislike 50cl Bottlings 😨
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- Опубліковано 7 сер 2023
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In Finland there is always price per litre visible so it is easy to compare prices 👍
Same in Sweden
And same in Norway
And in England
Every time I see a Boutique-y bottling I think: "goofy label, 50cl, reduced to about 50% abv, limited information on casking....but still sounds interesting". Then I multiply the price by 1.4 to convert to standard bottles size, laugh and leave it sitting on the shelf with its brethren.
"It's a predictability of banality" is one of those Ralfy's quotes which malt-mates diligently record into their malt-vocabularies.
As for me, if whisky is decent I wouldn't care so much about the bottle size.
One thing the distillers could say in defense of the 50cl bottle is that, in the UK, it allows customers passing through the duty free sections at the airport to buy two bottles instead of one because of the 100cl limit on spirits over 20% alcohol
Yes, I’d rather take two different 0.5l bottles than one 1.0l bottle.
Just one point: in the UK it's defence (ce), not 'defense' (se). There's no 's' in defence unless you're American.
❤xx
The limit is 4 litres now
No detail escapes this man. Thank you, my friend.
50cl bottles have been used by a lot of distilleries in Australia for the last 30 years. However it's important to keep in mind that the majority of our distilleries are very small - tiny by Scottish standards. Starward produces about 680 litres/day at maximum capacity and it is the biggest in the country. For comparison, Caol Ila produces 8,000 litres/day, and that's when they are only operating at half capacity. Artisan distilleries produce a fraction of what Starward can - eg Black Gate (one of the best distilleries in Oz IMHO) produces 8 litres/day. When you are making stuff on such a small scale it is an expensive proposition, and there just isn't a lot to go around. Making what was available go further, and keeping the price of a bottle down to "expensive" rather than "astronomic", were part of the rationale behind 500ml bottles. The new generation distilleries that have been set up over the last 10 years generally have a lot more finance behind them, and are ramping up production quickly, so the hated 50cl bottle is less common now.
This is all very true. I’m in Tassie, and quite a few smaller operations still use them, most justifiably. There are notable exceptions though. Bill’s mob could easily use 70cl. Especially with multiple distilleries at their disposal. Even one of my favourites, Old Kempton is marginal. My local, Hellyers Road have always used 70cl bottles.
20cl bottles are great then you can try more different whisky for your money😊
Monsters of Smoke by Ardbeg 60cl in three x 20cl bottles for about £40 got me into Islay whisky , i wish more companies did similar tasting boxes
_"The predictability of banality"_
Well said Ralfy. I too have noticed this far too often over the years. The more creature comforts we get, the more bored we become and, as a result, the less creative. I've found I can predict banality at times also. Comes pretty easy if you're paying attention.
In the US, we’ve traditionally has 750 ml bottles. Now lots of companies are switching to 700 ml bottles, especially for more expensive bottles. Woodford reserve has stated putting the special releases like batch proof in 700 ml bottles.
Just to clarify a couple of points, there is no longer a department called ‘Customs and Excise’, it was ‘merged’ with the Inland Revenue, to form HM Revenue and Customs. Furthermore, they do not set the rate of taxation, that is done by the government of the day. HMRC is just a ‘functionary’, that collects taxation for the government following the rates, and rules, set by parliament. So, it’s the government that is responsible for the high rate of tax charged, not the civil servants employed by HMRC.
I quite like the idea of 50cl bottles. Provided they're fairly priced, of course. If too expensive, simply don't buy. Buying less cl in a bottle means I get to try more whiskies without having to pay for and getting through 70cl until I can afford the next one. It's good to have a choice in my opinion.
Problem is it is never fairly priced. You always have to pay a big premium compared to the standard size
I agree that “shrinkflation” is real but I don’t mind smaller bottles. Especially on things I’ve never tried but am considering taking a chance on. When it’s a new distillery to me that I’m unfamiliar with, if I can try it in a smaller size (and at a smaller price!!) before splashing the cash on a full sized bottle then that’s great.
At the same time, I agree that if it’s just deceptive marketing then that sucks. I am very numbers oriented so I was always doing that math (and assumed most others were too) so I found this video very interesting. I’d love to encourage people to chime in if they have gotten swindled by this practice?
I was so glad to see this video. Living in Australia I constantly here how we should be supporting our Tasmanian whisky industry, and i would love to try a lot of them, but I have always straight up refused to buy the 50cl bottlings. Same for the likes of Aberlour 18 etc. I just simply will not do it.
Most of it is god damn awful .
Ralfy, many thanks for every video their, you teach us how to drink and taste whiskey .
Cheers, Paul from Lebanon.
Well done, Ralfy. Thanks for the x-tra and the continuation of educating and the reality check!
Thank you as usual, that’s a good tip about dividing by 50 multiply 70
It's rocket science!
My wife bought me a 0.5L 42 y.o. grain Scotch whisky Invergordon, that call themselves "that boutique-y whisky company", years ago as a gift. I still have it unopened, but it looks quite weird among other 0.75L bottles.
Boutiquey Whisky seems to have been rebranded into Master of Malt own label bottlings at 70cl from 2022 onwards on a rolling basis. They are literally rebottling the old 50cl stock. Thus the age statements regularly do not appear to "add up" from the distillation year - stuff has been sat in bottles.
Been curious about this. Makes sense if that is indeed what they're doing!
Well that’s a real dark side of whisky if they’re doing that and not stating it!
You convinced me. Now I want 2 liter bottles only!
I agree with you on the tax. Double tax should be made illegal especially on inheritance tax
Laws should be illegal. Do you see how it neatly negates itself? :)
Smaller bottles usually come with a higher price, that's true. I usually don't have a problem with this, as long as it's not the standard bottle size, but just an additional bottle size option. Then you still have the option to choose which bottle size you're buying
I nearly got caught out last week
Id had a taste of Glengoyne 21 year old, it is a superb dram but the price £160 up to £199 was too much. On Amazon i saw a bottle for £70, i thought it was a mistake but transaction went through. Only when i read the small print i saw it was a 20cl bottle. Thankfully i managed to cancel order. Buyer beware if a deal looks to good to be true it normally is.
The calculation works with 20, 35 or 5 cl bottles, too.
Excellent subject Ralfy. 🙏 I do a similar calculation, but in the opposite direction, when I’m trying to convince myself that a cask strength whiskey is a better deal than the price would suggest. 😂
i really hate how the whisky industry is trying to normalise 50cl bottlings. In our town we have an "artisan market" every month and sometimes there are whisky stalls there, one was called *Great Drams" peddling 50cl bottles for too much; the drams weren't even that great with nice soft peat doing most of the work. When i asked where the rest of the bottle is the lady on the stall said *50cl bottles keep things affordable and i could always buy 2!* < this is such a lie it wasnt much cheaper than i'd pay for a full size bottle and we as customers should NEVER buy 2, its just a way for distilleries to give us even less than usual at a deceptively high price point. Fight this trend of 50cl bottles otherwise eventually it's all we will get on the shelves!
You are a wise man Ralpy
Nikka From The Barrel is recently available in a 750ml in the states so hopefully that changes globally
Nikka from the Barrel is Ben Nevis Scotch with sweeteners and colouring added, and then sold as Japanese. The size of the bottle is just another slap in the face!
Lots of new info dear Ralfy which I appreciate. I think excise duty is becoming a little too much. We are taxed on our tax that we are asked to pay with our salaries that were already taxed. I give up! Thanks 🙏 😮 well done 👍 as always. Kindest regards, S.
I buy a lot off whisky by finding it on line from the provincial regulated stores in canada (LCBO in Ontario, SAQ in Quebec) and a little while back finally saw some Edradour releases,,,,,from the cask.....thought is was a great price and when I picked up the bottles..I wondered why they were so short.....only to find 500ml instead of 750 ml bottles.....NOT such a great deal then...felt ripped off. I have started to read the small print from then on...never had to before...they were all the same size.....
Svensk Rök is available in 70cl in Sweden and it is for some reason more expensive per liter than the 50cl. So you are better of buying the small one.
I think you are 100% right ! Excellent Extra Ralfy .
I really enjoy your videos Ralfy. Thank you!!
Hear in the USA, after good reviews of the Jack Daniels 10 year and their Triple Mash I went to the store to get some as the price was $39.00. Picked up the bottles and found they were 500 ml bottles. I put them back and found something else.
. . . you did the right thing !
In my market the 500ml bottle of Nikka From the barrel is 66.25$CAD which doesn't look that bad compared to the rest of the standard Nikka range that is in the 80-95$CAD neighborhood (for 700ml bottles). When you adjust the price from 500ml to 700ml it's right up there at 92.75$CAD with the single malts... 😮
Loved the William McGonagall moment near the end. 😉
There's a policy of _nudging_ people away from alcohol. So they know that with raising duties and taxes they eventually will end up taking less money.
Also, the bottling, packaging and transportation costs for 7 bottles of 50cl are probably higher than that for 5 bottles of 70cl.
Jack Daniels has gone this route with their Bottled in Bond at 700ml instead of 750. It's dishonest.
To be fair it is probably more expensive for the producer per volume to package in smaller bottles. Not 40% obviously
I don't see much point in 50cl bottles but I would like to see more 10cl~20cl just because it would be easier to taste different whiskies.
Tax on tax on tax : it is Kafka.
Even worse in Belgium !
40 % more for a 50 cl bottle ? That is INSANE and even makes me SICK !
I have just started the video and am adding my 2 cents just from the title because apparently this is how things are done on the interwebs these days. I wouldn't mind having 50cl bottles if they were priced 30% less than a 70cl bottle of a whisky of similar status. Sometimes I get bottles just to try and I'd be able to try more. What gets my goat is I'm paying the same for a 50cl bottle as 70cl bottles of similar whiskies. Also taxation is theft.
It's all rather simple. When the price of a 50cl bottle is acceptable, the price of a (non-existing) 70cl is also. It's all about the math
Ralphy this is the best channel on UA-cam for me I am a whisky fanatic and look forward to watching everyone of your videos keep up the good work fella
Only 50cls I sometimes buy are the chivas distillery exclusives because they are reliably good. In the early days they were great value too- not so much since they’ve been more readily available- but you can generally trust them to deliver quality you might not be able to rely from an indie for a comparable product. Other than that I tend to avoid 50cls for exactly the reasons you state.
Good thing that where I live, even in the shops they have to tell you on the price labels in the shops how much the stuff costs per liter. The only problem is that it is written smaller, so you need to look closely. However, I do that.
Need to get a steampunker!
Happy to say out of the 300+ bottles I’ve purchased none have been 50cl. Just seems like they are trying to cheat us
I am producing my Smögen to go into 50 cl bottles. This is due to the fact that I've got really limited production and need to get a higher number of units out to market - and it is (almost) all at cask strength, which means there's more whisky i one of my bottles than in a reglar strength 70 cl bottle. I must say I am rather dismayed by some misinformation and highly subjective negative comments heaped upon the 50 cl bottles in this video. Is it not about the character and quality of the whisky inside the bottle?
But Ralfy 70 cl is 40% higher than 50 cl! I would not mind a 50 cl bottle is it is priced at 5/7 of the 70 cl bottle. I have bought some 375 ml bottles like Dewars 21! I don't agree that 50 cl bottles cost disproportionately less to package and distribute.
I love how much you care
I'm in NZ and this is one reason I don't buy NZ whisky collection who only do 50cl or a 50ml that costs as much as a solid islay that's 50% cheaper with more quantity. Crazy!
Hi Ralfy, your comments are absolutely valid. However, from a consumer, 50cl bottles singly, are lighter in a travel bag to be taken or given as a gift by air from one side of the world to another. Also, the 20cl bottles of even the more special whiskys are more affordable (though frightfully expensive per cl) if going on holiday to Scotland and bringing back several to enjoy sampling over 3 or 4 evenings. I appreciate the 50cl bottles cause dismay, but they are welcome as a gift from afar!
Nick from York
I bought a Nikka from the Barrel bottle online, due to all the positive reviews online. Man, did I ever feel ripped off when it was a 50cl bottle. Never did I pickup that it was a smaller bottle.
That almost caught me out as well, I noticed just in time and didn't buy it. At the price a 70cl BTL would have been worth trying but at 50cl I decided not to.
I recently bought a "Father's Day" tasting set for just under £25, i.e. £5 for each 3cl measure! 😲
I dont like 1/2s as well so i use a simple maths: Double the price of the bottle and see if its worth it. If not, leave it in the shelf....
Ralfy, I have to disagree with you regarding "cheaper packaging and bottling". You are correct on an absolute basis (cost per bottle). The problem is that volume is proportional to the cube of length, while area is proportional to the square of length.
A 50cl bottle is 71% of the volume of a 70cl bottle. The bottle and packaging of a 50cl bottle are 80% of the area of a 70cl bottle. In other words, a greater fraction of what you pay for the smaller bottle of whisky goes to the cost of the bottle and packaging.
Cukoo
In California, I hardly ever see 500ml bottles. I don't think I've seen any whisky bottles at that size recently, but sometimes baijiu is in 500ml bottles. 750ml is the old standard here, but the 700ml standard that is common around the world is becoming more prevalent. 1-liter bottles also show up on occasion. Any of these work for me. I also like smaller bottles, even though they are never a great value, because they are good for trying something. I've seen 50ml, 100ml, 200ml, and 375ml. Out of these, I think 100ml and 200ml are best for trial sizes, as they provide enough to share with people or to try it multiple times. I don't see a purpose for 500ml bottles. It's too big to be useful for sampling, but not quite a sufficient quantity for something that I want to have around for a while, and not an efficient size for packaging.
The tax situation is also multilayered and opaque here. Federal taxes are buried in the price of spirits, and then the state and local government add taxes on top of that, including sales tax, which is our version of VAT.
50cl bottles make me mad. (Some) Australian distilleries - I’m glaring in your general direction!
I thought you were going to break into a rendition of '' Windmill in old Amsterdam (I saw a mouse) '' by Ronnie Hilton at the end there Ralfy. PS One for the kids that
Great video👍🏻 I will personally never buy Any 50cl bottlings
The handling costs per box, per bottle and per label don't change. In fact they are hogher per cask or per pallet. There's simply more handling. 7/5 more...
Relative to the overall weight (including the glass from the bottle) there's actually less whisky. Those 50cl bottles aren't thinner.
So no, I beg to differ.
Distilleries are correct in pricing small bottles higher per volume.
Whether it is worth it is entirely up to us, the esteemed customers.
It's curious that 50 ml bottles do not seem to have the same tax issue.
They are commonly sold for $1
Hello, I can top this. A tiny German distillery sells a 3 or 4 yo in a 20cl bottle for 25€. Seems they really don’t want to be bought 😉. The stuff is not the best but expensive.
The edradour "straight from the cask" range was good stuff but sadly 50 cl.
That was very nearly a 'Ralfy Rap' to conclude proceedings... but as with 50cl bottlings, we can probably live without both 😅
The new bottlings of Svensk Rök (Swedish Smoke) come in 70cl bottles
The Swedish Systembolaget sells the bottle in 700ml. 569 Skr / 43 pounds
Very interesting points, the amount the crown gets is frankly ridiculous.
Greeting from just over the border (20 miles away)
Make your own spirits! From Romania.
Ralfy do you have a video informing about peak flavour times of an opened bottle-relating to aged whiskey etc
????
Thanks
The peak flavour time is about April.
. . .not yet. There is not really any rule-of-thumb !
In my opinion, a 500ml bottle would be enough for me to fully get to know a specific whisky. I wouldn't even mind if it was a general standard, but really if it was also reflected in the price in a downward direction.
Just being a pedant, C&E hasn’t existed since 2005. We were subsumed into HMRC in 2005.
I agree wholly with your sentiment regarding 50cl bottles which I simply won’t buy.
Kilkerran review would be good mate.
I quite frankly have a hard time seeing how bottle size can be an issue. Anyone is able to roughly calculate the price/1000 ml in their head or with a calculator and decide if the price is worth paying.
Alright Dr Seuss lol
I do not like them chill filtered
I do not like them caramel coloured
I do not like them half the size
I do not like them overpriced
I do not like all of the flannel
I do not like them so banal
I do not like the Macallan
I do not like it Ralf-I-Am!
Will it carbonate?
Here in Sweden there are a couple of new distillerys that have 50 cl -- in the beginning. I reckon. I like to support them. Eventually they will grow -- and with my support -- get the chance to be better at everything. They need money when their starting up. A shitload of it.
A new producer with smaller stocks can reach more markets with 50cl vs 70cl. No excuses for established larger volume distilleries.
I juat accidentally bought a 50cl bottle online by assuming it was 70. It turnd something which would have been well priced into something very expensive. Will be avoiding TBWC... Hopefully I can return the bottle.
Fair play RALPHY Hate this take on greed ,the honest man 8 to 5 don't deserve the GREED.
750ml here in the US.
You're a bit behind the times Ralfy; the dept. responsible for the collection of taxes on alcohol are HM Revenue & Customs, albeit that it is Excise duty that is levied and VAT applied to the duty inclusive value. Whichever way you slice it, we are all drowning in a sea of taxes and never more so than on our beloved spirits 😥!
p.s. as far as can interpret from the UK Tariff, there is no third country duty applied to single malt whisky, just excise duties and VAT. Good innit?
😕
Sorry, Ralfy, but I have to disagree with you here. Some of the best malts I have purchased came in 50cl bottles by independent bottlers. And I do actually NOT think those bottles have been issued with sinister marketing thoughts in mind. Rather the opposite: a 27yo Ben Nevis by Scoma (German IB) , e.g. could be bought by more people - at a still decent price!
They are invariably more per volume as the size goes down. The price by volume on 50ml bottles is outrageous compared to the 700ml. The 500ml is slightly better by volume but still more than the 700ml. The canny move is that the 500ml bottle has a smaller price tag to tempt people with, not by volume but when its price tag looks like its less than the 700ml cousins around it people will go for it. Johnny Walker has been trying to recover its market sales here by having 500 and 375 ml bottles in shops. They look cheaper, they've got the prized brand name, it works. Urgh.
I never buy half bottles of anything,I might need the other half later !
A fair point that it could be deceptive with 50cl size but then again, if you just read the label before an impulse buy on spotting you can take it into account vs price. Ultimately if the liquid inside is cack, it doesnt matter whether it was 50 or 70cl.
Most of the 50cl producers i know (admittedly not Scotch) are smaller operations and probably need extra numbers of bottles to keep supply up, but make quality whiskey.
It's a bit naff that it might discourage some from trying good liquid.
Keep it quality, not quantity!
Ralfy, I wonder if you or any of your subscribers can help me, I’m looking to source some Wolfschmidt Kümmel I think it’s discontinued but wondered if anyone new of any for sale or if you can get it abroad at all.
Sorry it’s not whisky related but at least it’s spirit related.
Many thanks in advance for any comments
. . . good luck.
I thought the mini bottles were to try to see if you like it? Anyway for some reason I think they never taste like the full size product. Why is that Ralfy? Is it just in my head?
The advantage for me is that as a European I can bring home 2 50cl bottles. We're only allowed 1 liter from the UK. It's not that hard to work out the per cl price.
Advantage of having a stupid law enforced by a callous state?
@@lenuvian Tax has to come from somewhere and there’s plenty of evidence that alcohol imposes costs on society as well as the individual. A pigou tax is entirely appropriate considering we live in a world of socialised medicine (which is a good thing).
@@gavincassells7585 Oh really? Did you notice you can buy said poison on every street corner, while a medicinal substitute is illegal? You want to argue, this is about public health?
@@lenuvian It is about public health. Take your conspiracy theory nonsense elsewhere.
The Jameson Orange is NOT a whiskey but a spirit drink and it is stated as such on the label.
It is 30% ABV, it is a cocktail and it can be any color and flavor.
Please do not blast the Irish Whiskey industry with incorrect facts.
Irish Whiskey is tightly regulated and I am sure we won't see a Shamrock flavored whiskey anytime soon.
The Technical File specifies that:
Colour development, which varies in colour from pale gold to dark amber, depends upon the maturation casks chosen.
The distillate, to which only water and plain caramel colouring may be added, retains its colour,aroma and taste derived from the production process referred to in points (a) to (d).
This means no magic green unicors can be added as the result will not be called Irish Whiskey anymore.
A Shamrock themed cocktails/spirit drink already exists, namely Shamrock Cocktail which uses Crème de Menthe, Green Chartreuse, French Vermouth and Irish Whiskey.
It is fair to stare at the stair where the bear care to share a pear with a hare in the air.
Hear, hear... One and all..!!!
@7:08 - and Highland Park 😒
Surely the excise duty goes to the government not the Crown? It may be called HMCE but that is an anachronism, similarly, for example, HMS Ark Royal didn't belong to the Crown but the government!
???
Excise duty paid to the Crown would fund the Royal Family whereas excise duty paid to the government would fund public spending. I realise the Royal Family get funding from the government i.e. the Civic List but they also receive funding from the Crown Estate or so I understand. The Crown (Royal Family) don't directly receive excise duty from Scotch or any other alcohol . This is what I believe and not what Ralfy seems to be saying.
Ill not be buying any more whisky unless im seriously impressed.
So why are the likes of Laphroaig 10, Monkey Shoulder, Highland Park, Naked Grouse Bottled at a higher abv for the US Market? Seems like we here in the UK are getting ripped off.
ofcourse profit is the main reason selling 0,50 cl. in stead of 0,70 cl.. Lagvulin bottles of 20 cl are also a lot more expensive than 0,70 cl bottles. In Holland we pay more tax because "it is not a healthy thing to drink to much alcohol!" If I compare it with prices in Germany the differences are huge!
2 other things: 1)what do you suggest in buying and storing good whisky's who are still cheap at this moment and 2) where can I find video's where you talk about pure spirits from distillers like White Dog (Buffalo Trace) or Vit Hund ( Macmyra)? We make "Oerfrysk"-whisky and some conaisseurs say that we should bring our fresh spirit on the market because its quality is already perfect,without CASKS and TIME! ( and in a bottle of 70 cl....).
"Size matters not" as Master Yoda and ungifted men say, but when a Scotsman tells you that 700 is better than 500....well, you have to trust him immediately without any hesitation. 😂😂😂
Hi Ralfy. I can't get in touch through Patreon. They say my payment was declined, but all is fine with my card. Is there a minimum pledge of $5 for your channel now? Cheers.
. . . no minimum. Best to contact Patreon direct and ask what's going on ! Good luck.
I miss the days of 750ml bottles.
I have never bought a 500ml bottle and I never will.