@@aprilshinto3081 You know that's not how the comic went right? She was a member of the administration who went behind his back to change things, got way to in over her head, and met the wrong end of Vader's Lightsaber?
@@aprilshinto3081 She's not, the story is told from her perspective and she views herself as the leader. This line of thought gets her killed by Vader after she oversteps her bounds.
Sorry guys, the black helmet, black robes, deep voice, scarred face, and initial scenes of mass murder and genocide are nowhere near enough, we NEED more SCREAMING so the audience isn't confoosed.
@@Siegfried5846 The only protagonists that are actually written to be intelligent are ones primarily only written in books and anime. Writing a character to constantly make bad decisions (especially when they're supposed to be some type of genius or have a clever personality) is one of my biggest pet peeves in books, movies and comics. Making a character do something incredibly stupid is not a valid obstacle in a plot, it's just lazy and terrible writing.
@@Siegfried5846 Predator is a great example of the protagonist actually conquering an obstacle and out-thinking it's opponent. The Predatory literally kills everyone aside from the protagonist and displays itself as an incredibly believable deadly force. There's no way Arnold can beat the Predator using simple brute force so in the end he has to out-think him using the knowledge he's gained throughout the film. The best part of that scenario is that the obstacle is actually a very believable one and it is shown by Arnold's entire platoon being slaughtered so the viewers understand the threat is real and it is a massive challenge for him to take on the Predator alone by the end. Additionally, the Predator doesn't say one word the entire movie, yet we understand he is a gigantic threat to the protagonist, all the while engaging the viewers into the story. These types of believable obstacles are nearly nonexistent in the new Disney Star Wars movies, and the times they are there, it's just a rip off from the first Star Wars movie that's done far worse in the Disney soft-reboot. Instead of portraying the New Order as this massive incredibly deadly force of nature, it's portrayed as a joke and a total push-over. To be fair, the droid army in the prequels also had this problem, but it was much more forgiving because the Droid army was never the *real* *enemy* and was always just a decoy in some master-plan and dark twist against the Jedi. In regards to your 2nd point, I think movies like Ant Man and Aquaman are sorta the exception because everyone understands those concepts are silly to begin with, so instead of the directors trying to polish a turd, they instead turn it into a flaming bag of poop and make the movie outrageous/unrealistic and fun to watch at the very least. I somewhat approve of this strategy (sometimes) even though those movies were never going to be great to begin with (you would have to be fecking Scorsese or Kubrick to actually make a good serious Aquaman or Ant Man movie). The 2nd Ant Man movie, however, was awful because it was just terribly written. At least in the first one, the hero was ridiculous, but they gave you something to care about with the father/daughter relationship (wanting his daughter to look up to him and his ex-wife to respect him). If that relationship was not written into the story, I guarantee the movie would've been totally emotionless and we wouldn't have cared about anything regarding the heroes journey. However, I still partly agree with you as well. You really do have to make the movie take itself seriously if you want to make a genuinely good movie. The original Star Wars movie was an incredibly weird and ridiculous concept at the time, but George believed in his vision and he made it work by making the movie and characters take the story seriously as if the Galaxy really was at stake and under threat from a giant evil Empire. At the same time though, look at the prequels (mainly just the first 2); George tried to make another serious movie/new story and it ended up going wrong for him. It's risky to make a relatively weird concept into a serious movie. Let's be honest, it would've taken a Herculean effort from the writers and directors to make a good or great Ant Man or Aquaman movie that took itself seriously. Disney deciding to fill the the sequel Star Wars movies with tons of jokes and clearly making the movies not take themselves seriously is Disney's way of playing it safe and not taking any risks by trying to tell a good story. I might rarely approve of this strategy when franchises or heroes get rebooted altogether, but Star Wars has always taken itself seriously, even when it didn't work well in parts of the prequels. Deciding to turn it into a totally lighthearted joke machine where even the most serious scene get interrupted by jokes/bathos, is, in my opinion, betraying the last 6 movies and 40 years of Star Wars and the universe that has already been established well before Disney bought the keys to the cash cow that at one point prioritized storytelling over money. Sorry for the long comment, it's totally understandable if you didn't read the whole thing.
It actually makes him scarier. It's like being locked in a cage with a trained tiger: You may die at any moment. Kylo is like being locked in a cage with a pissed off poodle: It'll bitch and snap and bitch, but it's just a small loud dog.
The sequel trilogy if it were a relay race: - JJ Abrams, Rian Johnson, and Colin Trevorrow are standing at the start. - JJ runs around the track and hands the baton to Rian Johnson - Rian takes the baton, throws it over his shoulder, and runs to an adjacent track to do hurdles, long jumping, pole-vaulting, ect. - Coach Kennedy comes over and praises Rian Johnson for subverting expectations. She then tells Colin Trevorrow that she doesn't like the way he is standing and kicks him off the team. - JJ picks up the baton and asks, WTF do I do now?
Robnoxious why are you acting like jj is the golden boy he created a shit story. If you like the force awakens you have no idea what makes a good story.
Because he at least created a decent, even if generic, base from which to springboard off of. While everyone else seems to be doing their damndest to squander that potential.
I wasn't particularly thrilled with TFA but at least it was a foundation to build on, maybe not a great foundation but take what you can get. TLJ not only didn't build on that foundation but seemed to do everything it could to undermine it for no discernible reason. The story going into 9 might as well be starting from scratch. It's pretty clear that the studio is in conflict with itself (whether it's just JJ and Johnson have a tantrum or if it goes deeper is anyone's guess) and the franchise is suffering for it. The big surprise to me is that Mickey is letting it go as far as it has and is risking serious harm to it's investment with this atrocious excuse for management.
And poor Mark Hammil is a veteran star on the original team a few decades ago. He's just standing on the sidelines in shock because the current racers have no idea how to run a race. He kept giving the team advice and tips while they were training but no one listened to the seasoned veteran. All Mark can do is look on powerlessly as the team he helped build so many years ago falls apart.
Two movies in this damn trilogy, and I still don’t know what the First Order is supposed to be. Edit: Ok so we’re now three movies in the damn trilogy and I still am not 100% sure what The First Order was
Or the Resistance and their relationship with the Republic. What the HELL is even going on?? I know there's probably out-of-film content that tries to explain it, but all we're presented with in the films is good guys vs bad guys set up to look like the originals.
A group of imbeciles trying very hard to equal the Empire and failing miserably, just like Kylo Ren really wants to be just like Darth Vader but he will never be that good because he has the sinister look and the cool lightsaber yet he's a complete wuss.
To be fair, I kind of liked that Krennic was panicky and on edge for the entire movie. He was under extreme pressure from Vader, Tarkin, and the Emperor to finish a project that was fraught with problems, and after all that his glory was stolen from him. He didn't come across as intimidating because he was intimidated. For all the faults Rogue One had, I think Krennic was one of the better parts.
Rogue one is the best new star wars movie by far the other two or three if you count solo where absolute rubbish watched the last jedi well half of it could not take anymore of its nonsense.
Problem is that it is already established that the Empire handled projects one by one without any central development organisation which leaves no room for any Director Krennic. In original Canon he couldn't exist.
Krennic seemed hand-crafted to be Tarkin's foil. Tarkin is powerful and under control. Krennic slowly loses his power, shifting from a quiet, "deal you can't refuse"-offering Imperial officer on the Erso homestead to a pawn in Tarkin's rise to prominence aboard the Death Star.
@@punbug4721 I also thought the part where he goes to complain to Vader about Tarkin was amazing because it was showing that being a whiner doesn't fly in the Empire.
Well, there was the time when Vice Admiral Holdo was about to do the audience a favor by committing suicide, and Hux screamed: *"FIRE ON THAT CRUISER!"* I think under those circumstances, it was okay to yell.
@@warrioroflight6872 I found that line so stupid. It means that they know what she's going to do is possible which means that during the entire movie, they knew it would be that easy but just decided not to do anything about it. That to me shows just how incompetent these idiots are.
I can forgive Krennik screaming. He's an engineer, a project lead. An administrator. His job isn't to command troops or rule star systems. His job was to manage the building and development of the death star. The soldiers he had were always temporary. Borrowed from other commanders or put in charge of to get him out of the way. He screamed because throughout the movie he was having a mental breakdown, his years of hard work were being scatched from him before his eyes and he was powerless to stop it. Hence. A mental breakdown.
I agree. That outburst fit in with what Jeremy said, that screaming in these scenarios usually means you've lost control of the situation, which is precisely what happened to Krennic
They should have made Hux an old veteran of the Empire, completely brutal and unrelenting, wanting revenge. Have him win some battles and crush the rebels so space/ground fights are actually exciting. Basic shit that they couldn’t get right for some reason.
たける Colonel Yularen: ran the ISB and its academy, clone war veteran Grand Moff Tarkin: second only to the Emperor, clone war veteran Commander Cody: much as he hated it, was in charge of training newbies, clone wars veteran Sergeant Appo: saved Vader on one known occasion, leader of the 501st after Rex faked death, Clone wars veteran Darth Vader: powerful Sith Lord and one of the most powerful figures in the empire, Clone Wars veteran I can make you a list it keeps going, Clones and Jedi weren’t the only ones who fought in the Clone Wars, there were hundreds of non clone officers and soldiers
@Hans Cascante alright i know of those vast veterans. I was referring to clone veterans specifically from topic of veterans who killed Jedi because I misunderstood your comment, sounding like there were lots of Sith when there was only two. All other shown Jedi killers during their wipeout were clone troopers.
Hans Cascante The Confederacy of Independent Systems/CIS/Separatists: Run by a coalition of leaders from across the galaxy who were opposed to the Republic’s bureaucracy and corruption, backed by many organisations including the trade federation and commerce guild and led by Count Dooku, a menacing ex-Jedi who can defeat Obi-Wan and Anakin and hold his own against Yoda. They had enough droid forces to not only spread the entire Jedi and clone forces across the galaxy, but even launch attacks on Coruscant and capture Palpatine. The only reason they were wiped out was because Darth Sidious was pulling the strings from behind the scenes the entire time to build his empire, and when the Separatist’s purpose was achieved, he sent Vader to kill the leaders and meld the independent systems with the empire, whether they liked it or not.
It is surprising how the empire was something you feared but The First Order we don't. I would say the only thing I feared was Snoke. And well... He's half the man he once was. So it's a blow to the First Order.
Basically at the end of TLJ I found myself wondering "does it matter whether The First Order or the Resistance wins?". Either way the galaxy is stuck with an order of shmucks. Please bring on the Yuzong Vong......
They (Rian Johnson) PROBABLY should have trimmed down the part of the movie with the First Order chasing the resistance and/or eliminated Canto Bight. That would have given enough time to focus on the dynamic between Rey/Luke and answering questions from TFA.
@@Dsturb85 Still canon as long as you ignore the "canon" from our RJ, KK, and JJA overlords that are the servants of the, now, vile overlord known as Disney. A real world evil that would seek to mutilate a great franchise all for the money possible and have a good jolly laugh in all our faces (as we despair at the immense loss (millions of voices crying out in terror)).
Yes. I want to see that. If they have enough creativity they can pull it out. During the chaos of the First Order and the Resistance fighting, the Yuuzhan Vong appear and start terraforming planets. Then the situation becomes so critical that both sides are forced to make an Alliance so they can fight them off. Or even better. Make Jaina Solo. Include in a way like she went training to Dagobah or Mortis or wherever, then came into a deep meditation. Then she awakens and decides to help. And better, make her a fun character. Don't make her a cold veteran daugther of heroes, or a wise Jedi knight, or a SJW, or another Mary Sue. Make her *FUN* . Make her crack a few jokes. Piss off the characters in a joking way. Maybe even snort of whatever. But also show that she can fight. Make her defeat Stormtroopers like its childs play, even being able to do it unarmed. Make her kick Kylo's ass easily and maybe have a conflict, where she hates her brother cause he killed their father and trillions of people. Show her internally suffering, but still putting on a smile because she knows that she needs to be strong. That she needs to help others. Also make her enjoyable to watch. That's all. I've probably make a better plot, character, interactions and character development than Rian Johnson.
What Jeremy Jahns speaks about here, is something every parent knows, intuitively. It is not the parent who yells at every infraction whoincites fear in children. It is the parent who is calm and cool when confronted by most of their children's antics, but then raises their voice when enraged by something serious, who the kids take seriously. If all you do is yell at your kids 24/7, they tune you out. The same goes for institutions - whether real or in the world of fiction.
My dad is the most gentle and kind hearted man I've ever known, and yet he is absolutely terrifying when angry. In 30 years, he's yelled at me 4 times; the last time being probably 18 years ago, but I can still hear the tone in his voice clear as day.
lol, my kids refer to my "mad face". I was able to inform them something was amiss just be looking at them. My dog knows it too. Not a word to be spoken.
Agreed. My mother usually shouted at me on a regular basis, and I only slightly paid attention, whilst my father hardly ever intervened if I did something wrong. But when I made a major mistake, he let me know about it in no uncertain terms.
You know who was intimidating ... Amon from Legend of Korra. And he never yelled. He was chilling because he was so cold. Same with Vader. Same with (the original) Thrawn.
Heck, even the Thrawn in Rebels was calm and collected, seemingly always having everything in control. Even when his plan failed (which since it was a kids show, it of course had to for the main characters to survive) he was still calm and simply looked at it as a "that is interesting, I will have to remember this" learning experience.
You know, that's funny. I HATED the Legend of Korra with a passion. But if there was one thing they did right, it was Amon. I did have respect for the job they did in making him intimidating. They did a good job with him.
Real strong characters/people are calm and collected because they and everyone else knows they are the alpha. Vader was so confident because he only had the Emperor that was stronger and EVERYONE knew it.
Yep. All the calm villains always dominates over the loud ones. Cause you don’t know what’s going on in their head making them unpredictable. The loud ones give themselves away early on because by the fact that you learn about their instability, you pretty much know were you have them. Sure it doesn’t apply to all the loud angry villains but if we just compare the suspense between the likes of for example Tuco vs Gus Fring, Cell vs Frieza, Book Voldemort vs Film Voldemort, That teenage gang in Once upon a time in Hollywood vs Hans Landa, or in this case Vader vs Kylo Ren, the calms ones are always the ones that makes one go quiet.
@@Norman_Fleming Dragon Ball Z fans, when you first read/watched the original Saiyan Saga, who did you think was more intimidating, Nappa or Vegeta? One Piece fans, in Ennies Lobby, who did you think was more intimidating, Rob Lucci, or literally any other member of CP9? Naruto fans, who did you think was more intimidating, Kisame or Itachi? Bleach fans, who did you think was more intimitating, Uquiora or Yammy? (Actually that's a trick question, that duo was quite obviously inspired by Nappa and Vegeta) I rest my case.
Actually, no, he grumbled about how they should've launched fighters much earlier. Hux was the idiot for not launching fighters or providing ranged fire support against the bombers (which were big enough to be targeted by their main guns).
Which is why he died almost immediately. Because God forbid they hang onto a character who serves any more of a purpose than to further the plot for Rey and Kylo to fuck.
It makes it even more ironic and sad that in the scheme of things Phasma had the most potential to authentically execute what their ideology is aiming for in showing that you can have strong female characters, and yet they treat her as the most disposable.
I honestly thought it was hilarious how they hyped up her character being a big badass in a lot of the pre-film media for The Force Awakens and that Gwendolyn Christie is playing her, but then the film comes out and she has about 3 minutes of screen time, 5 lines, never takes off her helmet to take advantage of the actress, and gets stuffed down a garbage chute.
@@Paul91- In defense of Boba Fett, aside from having cool armor, a cool voice, etc., he did come off as intimidating and intelligent and did things that were substantial. I wish he did more in the movies as I'm sure others do based on how powerful and strategic the character is shown to be in other media, but it's not as if he did nothing or had no qualities other than appearance that would justify how popular he is. Captain Phasma also happens to be a bit more interesting when you read outside media as well, but when making a movie, you CANNOT rely on the guess that a person read or saw whatever that media was.
That's intentional, he's supposed to be inferior to Vader. He wants to be like Darth Vader but he's too stupid and short-tempered to be as successful as him
@@WiloPolis03 It's not because it was intentional that it was a good idea . I could tell my teacher that I voluntarily didn't use the intro, development conclusion pattern because I thought it would be better this way but he will still give me an F .
The Empire is just much more mature. Tarkin was a regional governor, Vader was the enforcer, and the Emperor never raised his voice. It was all very menacing. By contrast, the new trilogy is like watching two five year old children screaming at each other. The only saving grace was Phasma, and she's useless and dead.
and snoke could've been the big bad who'd tie everything together, fix these issues....if it weren't for him being killed off with not a hint to his backstory or motives all so Kylo fucking Ren could be put up as the big bad. The screaming, whiny, fli-flopping manchild Darth Vader wannabe. My Hero Academia did this plot point MUCH better.
Ichaelis.......... They didn't even have to do that. If the Resistance was paid for by the Republic. I think it would have worked out much better as something like the Resistance spying on the First Order, infiltrating their base, and setting explosive charges. Or maybe as having the resistance be like the Maquis resistance from WWII. They live in occupied territory and have to sabotage the first order's machinery. Or even something like the modern Afghani resistance to every country that wants to take them over.
There's also the fact that the Emperor and sometimes Vader did evil stuff just for the sake of doing evil stuff. Snoke came off like a kindergarten teacher trying to keep a bunch of hyper kids in line.
PaladinGuy Considering the Galactic Empire seemed a lot more structured and Palpatine didnt spend half as much time reprimanding bad soldiers, probably not
The scariest of people are thw quiet and calm. The Nazi Commander from Inglorious Bastards was Calm and never broke his calmness and He was the character that kept me on the edge.
Precisely the same reason why Hitler's Nein nein nein nein nein is a meme. Its funny because he's lost control of the situation. The loud screaming villains are not intimidating, the quiet calm ones are.
The thing with krennic is that he’s intimidating at the start, and starts yelling when is his toy is taken away, he essentially becomes another cog in the system, so I kinda like his unhinging
lol bag the same could be said about the leaders of earth right now. Which I suspect is why the first order is what it is. It wouldn’t surprise me if Kylo Ren complains about fake news on space twitter. No, it’s not as intimidating, but it’s scary in its own way. Power in the hands of impulsive brats are terrifying. Well I think so anyway. It’s cool if you don’t like it, we all are entitled to have opinions
Adam Nelson That’s debatable, but that’s not the discussion. This is a debate about how bad or good villains the first order is. I just mentioned the political climate of today, because I believe that it was an inspiration for the writers. Fascism has changed since the 70s, so it’s logical that Star Wars show that change with their new villains. Hillary Clinton has nothing to do with it at all
Harold Hernandez wanna see trump and putin as superheroes? That's in itself is already cringe enough. But to some, it's their only heaven on earth go to guys. Crazy yet weird world we live in nowadays. 😁
Remember when Joffrey insulted Tywin in front of the council and Tywim calmly sent Joffrey to bed? Joffrey yelled that he wasn't tired because he is a child, but the audience sides with Tywin because he shows authority and maturity. I would say that Star Wars should learn from this, but they shouldn't have to because the original trilogy already understood how to create compelling villains. I understand the more personal dynamic they were going for with Kylo Ren, but the entirety of tbe First Order shouldn't act like him. Snoke or Hux should have been his stopping power. They should treat him as an annoyance, but we understand that they don't kill him because he is too valuable with his use of the force.
I couldn't help but laugh every time Ren had one of his fits. He kinda reminded me of four year old throwing a fit because his mom told him he couldn't get any candy.
Ren is like sam in return of the king when he's rescuing frodo from the tower in Mordor. The orcs see his shadow, are intimidated until the facade is removed to see a tiny hobbit. That whole scene in ROTK could describe the first order too.
Honestly, Kylo Ren as an irrational brat throwing tantrums _still_ could have made for a decent villain if there were other, more stable bad guys (like Snoke or Hux) to compensate for him, but _The Last Jedi_ shot that option out the airlock.
Ren feels like a knock off Vader, like they are trying to mimic Vader’s violent response people displeasing him, but can’t have Kylo being the cold blooded killer Vader was. When Vader was displeased with someone he maintained an outward calm, but choked them to death with the force. When Ren gets mad, he has a temper-tantrum and takes his anger out on a computer terminal.
I mean... that's kinda the point. He's intentionally supposed to be dumber, wimpier, and much less contained than Darth Vader. Even Supreme Leader Snoke points out how stupid his useless helmet is
An issue I feel The First Order has, is that it comes across as just a random plot device. Gonna paraphrase Lindsay Ellis now (Go check her First Order Ideology video). The Empire was the established form of government in the galaxy. Even if you didn't know its origin in the OT, their ideals and their position in the galaxy was easy to understand and very plausible. The First Order was created just because JJ wanted Empire Part 2, even if it didn't make sense in its own world. The First Order is not the established form of government. They're some evil agitators with another Death Star, so it's kinda hard to take them seriously. Not that The Resistance are much better but since this is about The First Order...
The first order should have been a death cult of extremists and the resistance should have been new republic special ops. Also tfa should have had its major conflict be the facility where they brainwash the troopers
Trim Prism The problem is that nowadays you can not just use space nazi and expect people to accept it without question, especially when your characters are all blands
The whole movie (and trilogy) could have been so much better if the first order, in the role of extremists, would have succeeded in destabilizing the republic with inside support, and the role of the "good guys" as the new goverment were to shut down the rebelion but failed. The reversal of roles would have been so powerful as a concept had it been more fleshed out. The ambiguity of the characters would make a lot more sense, hell you can even fix almost all the plot holes with that. Why would Han run away? because he is a smuggler at heart, not some goverment stooge. Why does Luke go into exile? Because he sees the darkness within the new republic before anything happens. Leia is a diplomatic figure, daughter of a senator and sole survivor of the single greatest genocide made in all of the movies up to that point, why isn't she in a political role? it doesn't make any sense that she would go into a military career having no experience at all. But she had to be a "stronk wahmen", so no politics, off to the military with her. As if women in politics wasn't THE BIGGEST ISSUE IN FEMINISM FOR THE LAST CENTURY. It should be a heavy conflict for Leia to see the rise this new rebel group of extremists with heavy support from people of the republic, because that is what the rebel alliance were to the empire, a guerrilla suported in secret by the ruling classes of the old republic. It would have been so powerfull to see them try to engage in diplomacy and then have Kylo Ren to just turn everyone into their puppets with his mind magic, and having the first order use this as propaganda to bring public opinion against the new republic. Forcing the republic to attack civilian worlds as collateral damage and then turn the public opinion against them. It would be the more fitting narrative analogue, and strongly show both a reversal of roles yet maintain the moral position of each side to the audience. It would also fix the threat perception of the first order to the audience, because they now are not an organiced profesional military, they are terrorists with a genius propaganda machine and fueling off the resentment of some elements inside the republic. That way, if any calm authority ever rises inside the first order and takes command, now the audience can rightfully feel that shit has hit the fan, because if they were threatening before being organized, imagine now that they have actual leaders. I don't know, the whole movie (force awakens) kinda went downhill to me when i saw that they never really portrayed the republic as the actual goverment, and the first order as the scrappy little band of crazies they "said" they were supposed to be. The republic, being the actual legit goverment, still operates from jungle bases? And they just let anybody into their military?? And the group of crazy extremists can fund themselves a super weapon the size of a planet?? It doesn't work, they didn't even try to make sense, it was an obvious cash grab.
Trim Prism exactly this. The "new order" is just a joke. It doesnt feels like a big, bad, powerful, intergalactic Empire, it feels like it's there for the plot and the plot alone.
One of the things I don't like about new trilogy is that they think ''The bigger, the better''. Let's make new Death Star, just bigger and more destructive, let's make AT-AT, just bigger, no reason for that at all, let's show thousands of Stormtroopers when they have a speech, but when they need to fight, there will be 5 of them in the background. Snoke, well he is just bigger Emperror, more powerfull, but we won't show it, just say it, who is he, we have no idea, we will explain it in book in 5 years. Bigger is not better!!!!
I'm fine with keeping 7. Yea, Han was a deadbeat dad and was kinda wasted unnecessarily, but at least he went out on Harrison's terms. Any competent writer could have fixed Rey's character flaws in 8. I would pitch JJ's next movie to open on Luke's face as he meditates on Ahch-To. He looks to be very uncomfortable and in great agony. The sound of the Falcon overhead jolts him awake. He mutters to himself while watching the ship land "this can't be how it ends..." Rey approaches and hands Luke his sabre. He grabs it, nods, and says "we have much to do, let's get to work!" Queue the Star Wars theme 'DUN DUN DUN DUUUUN...'
Hey man, just an elevator pitch. I wan't 8 to be just a nightmare that Luke wakes up from. That will never happen, and I'm not convinced that it would be a smart move for Lucasfilm, but it makes me happy to think that it could be possible.
Here's how the First Order would be terrifying: Make it a small remnant of the Empire with NOTHING to lose. They basically become the Rebellion from the OT. Hit and run tactics. A cornered animal is far more terrifying and frightening.
SteelerFan716 maybe like how the Empire was based on the nazis give the New Order a little touch from the imperial japanese army. Utterly devoted to their cause and willing to die for it. Would probably be too dark though.
SteelerFan716 yes! With them using "small" essentially nuclear weapons to Wipeout all life on a planet and that being how they take out the republic not a bigger death star. Using the same tactics of the Rebellion used. Learning from the enemy. Now that would be a scary and cool bad guy
While this would be awesome, current Lucasfilm would never do this. Remember their motto: Messaging over Movie! If they created an underdog rise to power situation with the bad guys, then some movie fans might really enjoy those characters and somewhat root for them (like certain Bond villains, for example). That is absolutely unacceptable with current Lucasfilm, because any fascist-leaning organization must not only be portrayed as 100% evil, the must also be shown to be complete and utter clowns. The Nazi's were definitely evil, but their efficiency, organization, and military tactics were certainly impressive and terrifying. In the age of Trump, current Lucasfilm would rather hammer home the message that 'fascists are insecure and pitiful losers, not just evil' than make a compelling universe. (PS. I'm a centrist Canadian, meaning that I would be a SUPER left-wing American when it comes to politics)
Kylo Ren’s first appearance set a good precedent for his character. Silently stopping Poe’s blaster shot and calmly interrogating him. By the end of TLJ, that is all undone.
Yes and no. In my opinion, it was both a hit and a miss in the sense that it did make Kylo intimidating and a threat, but it showed him as ineffectual and childish evil. Instead of taking the old man for torture and extract information right then and there, Kylo had a tantrum and killed the sole person that could have told Kylo who or what the First Order had to look for. Instead of questioning or torturing Poe in the spot for basic questions ("are there other Resistance members here?" "Where's the data-chip?" etc.) Kylo merely stares at Poe and then leaves, taking Poe with him, without even ordering Phasma to search EVERYTHING and EVERYWHERE after she kills the entire village. In fact, Kylo stupidly repeats this error when he kidnaps Rey rather than taking all the prisoners away (including BB8 who had the bloody data-chip). Hence, the First Order came off as a dangerous villian albeit an incompetent one.
Kylo Ren losing to Rey in TFA makes sense for the situation that ending scene set up. He was badly wounded by Chewie’s caster bolt (a weapon shown more than once in that film to have great power) and Rey already knew how to fight. It’s no perfect, but it at least makes logistical sense. Unlike Rey beating Luke somehow.
Also we were all banking on Rey being a Skywalker or a Padawan whose memory has been wiped by Luke and that was why she so adept at the Force. This of course did not happen
I feel like Dr. Malcolm from Jurassic Park said it best.. “the most awesome force the planet's ever seen, but you wield it like a kid that's found his dad's gun.” The empire from the original trilogy established themselves as not only the galactic government, but their ability in testing their strength when it’s necessary. The first order on the other hand, they stood on the shoulders of giants and continued what the empire had done but didn’t really consider the repercussions, they blew up an entire system of republic planets for God sake!! Yes the empire blew up some planets here and there, but ultimately they understood that they needed a structured system that would bend to their will. The first order on the other hand just screams and blows up everything they don’t like.
Apparently no one else considered the repercussions, either! They wiped out 5 planets at once, and no one cared! The only ones that had any concern was Leia's small fleet. Republic: We didn't like them, anyway....and those planets blocked our view! :P
I believe that this specific problem complements that fact that we know nothing about The First Order in general. We don't know how strong they are, what their history is, or what their motivations are. How are we supposed to take them seriously in an established universe if we know nothing about them? Granted we knew little about the empire when the original trilogy came out, but that was the very beginning of the franchise. Lucus had a blank slate and he thrust us into the action. Plus we knew enough about their past to have a solid understanding. They overthrew a Rebublic and Vader betrayed the Jedi after being seduced by the Emporer. That's enough info. Plus the prequels really fleshed out Palpatine's master plan and we see it took an abandance of resources, time, and planning. How is it within the fathom of believability for the First Order to just show up, gain enough resources to amass an army while the republic is still in power, proceed to blow up the Republic, and then take over the galaxy with no resestance except from the Resistance. Destroying a government is not the same as taking over the galaxy, espacially when every planet has it's own goverment and military and would be furious that their representative to the Republic was just killed. I know that there is a further explanation in comics, books, tweets by the film makers, etc but that is irrelevant. A good movie should explain the information necessary for the story to make sense in the movie itself with no extra material being needed. (On a side note and from the information I have read, I am not at all satisfied with the First Order's backstories provided in the expanded material.) In short, is makes no sense for the First Order to just take over in the context of the prequels and established Star Wars history. As a result, how are we the audience supposed to take them seriously if their very presence makes no sense? It does not help that they just killed Snoke, the one character that could provide an explanation for the First Order's history and power. Frankly, Snoke's death seems insulting, like the filmmakers are essentially telling the viewers that the backstory is irrelevent and does not matter even though is clearly does to understand the context of the film. This coupled with the lack of intimidation discussed by Jeremy in the video above (and poor use of comedy) makes me have zero respect for First Order. It doesn't help that they seem to just copy the Empire's vehicles and accordingly have next to zero originality.
Amen! Holy shit does this annoy the shit outa me. For people who aren't aware of the lore in some recent video games and novels and shit, most people are thinking.... wait a sec - i thought the rebels defeated the empire at the end of "The Return of the Jedi"? So....Where the fuck did this "first order" even come from? Why don't they just refer to themselves as The Empire still, cuz don't they have the same sorta goals....? And if not, than what the fuck ARE their effin goals!? How'd they go from being a non-entity to reconquering the galaxy so fast?
Obi-Wan Kenobi I don't like the sequels, I hate them, but your statement is somewhat hypocritical. We knew nothing about the Empire in the original Trilogy but we still feared them.
Well put, master Jedi. In the OT we didn't need explanation about the Empire, the name 'Galactic Empire' already invokes the idea of galaxy spannig government. Then with the openning scene of huge destroyer chasing small cruiser and white armored well organized stormtroopers tell what kind of this empire is. It is everywhere and it has power. Then of course we got more details later but that gives the idea. Then again the name 'First Order' doesn't really tell anything. Military order of some kind but what they are for? Then we them with similar armoured troops and that rises the first questions, how, where. Last time we were in this galaxy these feckers were defeated. And they are killing some civialians just to be evil, I guess. Only when they battle against the Rebe- I mean Recistance in that tavern planet we get idea of their power and they both seem to be as powerful which rises even more questions of how, with what kind of backing. This is 30 years later in the story. Maybe if they called it "The Order of Ren", it wouldn't be the clearest name but with Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren on top it would give some idea. Maybe grand master Snoke is re-establishing the empire as Kylo as the legitimate emperor since he is the grandson of Vader. Have openning scene them infiltrating in some Republic military base and causing havoc before vanishing. The OT empire was about power, these are about fighting dirty. All the rest of backstory you can explain later. I don't know, those are just some shitty exaples. The sequels look really pretty but it is really hard to care about the characters or what is going on. Without context the villains don't feel threatening.
And as Ben Kenobi has said, that was the first time we were introduced into the conflict (original trilogy), when we could get behind the fact that The Empire is the ruling force and evil and ruthless and dangerous. That was the status quo at the beginning of the story. The problem is, that with The First Order, we have moved from the position of the Rebels having won and reestablishing The Republic to open conflict with The Empire Lite (but with a bigger Deathstar and a ton of resources and people). And even after losing the Deathstar they were able to win everything in a matter of... days? And the fact that they are lead by a psychotic crybaby and a pathetic moron, as shown in Ep 8 does not help their credibility one bit. Their overall incompetence is shown during pretty much every action scene in that movie except for the Leia/Ackbar massacre moment. Other than that, they got their supreme leader murdered, their biggest ship destroyed, failed to kill a couple of ancient wrecks because their interceptors went on a goose chase and let the handful of rebels (or whatever they are supposed to be called now) escape and so on and so on.
Ki Swore LOTR, the original Star Wars and The Dark Knight are the cream of the crop for me in terms of trilogies. You can put the new Apes films up there too.
Charlie Rodya That was believable. I've been stationed in places where, if things started blowing up, it would be so unexpected that everyone would probably just stare blankly for a moment before realizing what was really happening. To me, that showed just how little anyone at that base was expecting to be attacked. I think it was the sort of duty station we'd call a boondoggle. (I should add that Rogue One is the only Disney Star Wars movie I really thought was well done, so I'm possibly biased.)
It's in the term: a harmless and exaggerated punching bag to lambast or sneer at an ideological opponent. The Empire at it's worst was George Lucas doing this with the American government (he actually stated that the Ewoks were meant to evoke the Viet Cong...because Lucas) while The First Order has directly been declared to be 'white supremacists'....despite the fact that there's many people of color in their ranks. Another good way to determine a straw man is that there is no logic involved, only emotional outrage.
bloodrunsclear Not everyone. Return of the Jedi is the only one I like. The rest can burn. According to Oxford, straw man means: a weak imaginary opponent or argument that is set up in order to be defeated easily
First order trooper conversation: “You hear that Kylo threw Hux against the wall?” “Yeah, wish I could do that. Hux didn’t even do anything, just want down.” “Yeah, but at least he didn’t have a temper tantrum.” “ Fair enough”
_The Force Awakens_ needed more politics... the galaxy should’ve been divided, with some systems preferring the way the Empire ran things, so they support the First Order to that end... maybe the FO has more sinister intentions than just politics, but it would explain how the FO could be so powerful and make the conflict seem real.
Let's be honest, The Force Awakens was just a New Hope remake and The Last Jedi was an Empire and Return of the Jedi remake. They are lazy movies with no originality.
For a moment I was about to get mad at you then I read the whole thing and I'm totally down. They really should have developed the world more and explained exactly how everything works. Like, A New Hope kept a lot of things vague and mysterious (what the clone wars were, who the Jedi were, what happened to them) but explained just enough so people could understand what was happening. This trilogy just kinda dumped us into the setting and left the tie in books to actually explain, which is something that IMO movies should never do because it's basically forcing movie goers to do homework.
The little red haired girl from across the street - yea, I don’t mean anything prequel-like... just one or two scenes to explain the state of the galaxy would’ve gone a long way towards making things feel less contrived, and given the two factions clear motivations, beyond just ‘good guys’ and ‘bad guys.’ I also wish the First Order had started out small, and been built-up into something to rival the Empire as the trilogy went on. maybe even save Starkiller Base for Ep8 or 9? I wasn’t opposed to a third Death Star... the First Order would want to emulate the Empire, and the Death Star was their greatest weapon, so it makes sense to me.
That is too close to the old Imperial Remnant from the old EU, and Disney basically decided they wanted all "new?" ideas and nothing from the EU in the new movies. I put "new" in quotes because they instead decided to do a soft reboot of Episode IV instead.
Honestly that would create a nice thing with Luke too instead of "I'm sad because Kylo" Luke would instead go into hiding because the galaxy said it was better off without him
The late Oliver Reed once said to an aspiring actor... "don't shout, dangerous men never shout, they speak quietly" Looks like Disney need some basic lessons in how to portray a villain
Well, they're doing what works for them. They need a cheap, simplistic, one dimensional hero and villain. That's why Rey is a flat Mary Sue, and the First Order are incompetent loudmouths. It made them a couple billion dollars the same way "The Fast and Furious" and the "Transformers" series make so much money. Most people don't care about quality or detailed cinema. They just want cool action sequences and beautiful soundtracks. I agree with you 100%, though.
To be fair at the start of The Force Awakens when Kylo Ren just straight up stops a laser bolt in mid-air and when he's talking to the captured resistance pilot and orders the villagers killed. That part showed promise of Kylo being like Darth Vader. Showing off power: Check, Showing authority: Check, Showing that he is evil and not to be messed with: Check. But after this he goes downhill as a villain. Instead of screaming "TRAITOR!!!!" it could've had Kylo's voice talking "So you return at last betrayer..." then show him walking from behind a tree slowly with his saber. But nope. These are just my thoughts.
I think what they were going for, was that he is dangerous because he loses control. He is unpredictable and passionate. If he was too much like Vader (his Idle) there wouldn't be room for character development. I think Ren would be fine if Hux wasn't such a bumbling idiot. They had an opportunity to make Ren terrifying, not only to the viewer but to the First Order as well. Unfortunately Star Wars is family friendly and "needed" a slapstick Binks role in which unfortunately Hux became. I would have liked them to explore Rens hatred and full envelopment to the darkside.
I actually feel bad for Rian, after the mess of a script JJ left in his hands to try and salvage. Episode 7 was supposed to create the setting and establish the villains, both in character and motivation. Instead we got another JJ mystery box.
I actually hated the part when he ordered the villagers to be killed. It felt too much like a random act of evil to remind us that he was the bad guy. The village was no threat to him and he just had them killed for no reason. I am a writer and that is exactly the kind of thing writers have to avoid when they design a villain.
The only First Order leader who actually worked for me was the Commander of the dreadnaught at the start of TLJ. I was actually kinda disappointed when he died because he actually seemed command authority.
I was actually impressed when Canady showed up, but then quickly disappointed by how ridiculously designed his ship was. What a waste of a potentially intelligent bad guy.
When I told my friend that that captain SHOULD have been the Admiral of the fleet, I was told that thier situation was quite similiar to my working place where top leaders are &/$^*# while we those at the frontline with no authorities cannot call for any shots.
These SW movies are screwed up. My biggest complaint about the First Order is: Shouldn't they be the rebels? And Leah and her troops: Shouldn't they be part of the galactic government? Does Leah just like rebelling? What are they rebelling against? Slavery maybe? Soooo bad.
The Resistance was a secretly funded military organization branching from the New Republic. The First Order are terrorists trying to regain control of the galaxy. Pretty obvious stuff.
Chase Hildenbrand A terrorist organization has more resources than a government-funded "Resistance". Not sure how that makes sense. Slavery is clearly shown in these movies, is the "Resistance" for or against slavery?
At least with the droid army you would know your enemy would not need to sleep or eat and is programmed to show no fear or mercy! That when itself is intimidating and terrifying! I respect the CIS in the prequels!
I think Droids are one of those instances where you can make a villain both comic relief AND intimidating Cause when there are only one or two, the basic battle droids incompetence was played for laughs; but even as a kid I understood their threat was in numbers-that they were cheap, easily produced, and disposable I think part of that was also the design team- the comedy droids were top heavy and had thin, spidery limbs; but all they really needed to do was hold a blaster in the direction of the enemy Then when the big bulky droids hit the screen I knew shit was gonna go down
+Harris... Snoke is still cool... you just dont know about him much... i know they teased him but you cant diss entire movie because you didnt get answers.... but yes, i agree, its mistake and know why you are pissed
Snoke was their Megatron and they got rid of him before even bothering to use him. Now with only his starscreams left to fight amongst themselves like children the First Order's threat level is irrepairably damaged.
That doctor who episode "The Family of Blood" ends with a narration of the bad guy saying (about the doctor) "He never raised his voice" literally to show how intimidating he was to them.
indeed the doctor was never more intimidating than he was then and he barely talked and when he did it was just on a normal volume. and that still just gives me chills
Reminds me of game of thrones when Joffrey was trying to intimidate Tywin. In that scene we all know who had the true power, Tywin didn’t even remotely raise his voice while Joffrey was yelling up a storm demanding respect like the little child he was .That scene was brilliant and I wish writing like that could be incorporated into the new Star Wars movies. Instead all we get of the directors “genius” is luke drinking blue walrus/cow space milk.
I like the point you make in the first part of your comment. I find that the second part of the comment damages your credibility and weakens your first stance. As a whole, Star Wars movies could do with better writing and more thought out scenes (where personal interpretation doesn't come filling in the holes).
All of you are missing the basic premise that people are naturally calm when they are in control and naturally frustrated when they are not. Tywin wasnt in control because he was calm, he was calm because he knew was in control, there was literally nothing joffrey could do except yell. The control is the intimidating aspect, not the calmness. A person who you think is in control can fuck you up far more by yelling than calmly asking you. IF tywin yelled, joffrey would have shat his pants twice over, it tywin wasnt in control his calmness wldnt have done shit as evidenced by him getting killed while taking a shit.
Their instability is exactly why we should fear them, if they lose their grip on the galaxy through poor leadership, it's going to be absolute chaos, every system for itself.
UncleFriis that might've worked if we got more a glimpse of some saner, more calculating people behind the scenes, but as is it's just unbelievable that the First Order could even get off the ground with Hux and Kylo in control. The alt right is only as successful as it is because of cold, Machiavellian types subtly directing the rabble; the angry dweebs in UA-cam comments are their pawns, not the actual leadership.
Exactly. The portrayal of the First-order is more like modern-day Neo-Nazis. i.e Emotionally fragile fanboys playing dress-up in their daddy's clothes & fantasizing about the glory days. The Galexy seems to be in the hands of unstable & emotional fuckwits.
Yeah again, their recklessness is supposed to induce fear, and you have a case for it in the force awakens, but in the last Jedi...what do they ultimately do? Hucks became this slap stick bitch to snoke, and after his death, then becomes a bitch to kylo. At least in force awakens Kylo slays his own father and they destroy a planet, but in last Jedi they do nothing in particular as a result of their instability.
+UncleFriis "look at the lengths Kylo Ren went to in order to try and turn Rey and kill Luke." Except they could have still done those things while being cold and calculated. The problem was never what they did, it's how they did it. Darth Vader was very much driven by emotion. The difference is, he didn't make a fool of himself. Imagine how less intimidating Anton from No Country for Old Men would be if he did the exact same things while screaming and flailing his arms around the entire time. When villains are *constantly* screaming and losing control of their emotions, they seem more predictable and therefore less intimidating. Kylo Ren was only able to kill Snoke because he was calm and managed to shut the fuck up. Compare that with his previous attempt where he got force lightning in his face...
@@cesarordaz139 Yeah,that's a pretty good series,but damn does it feel rushed with those 30 min run times.A good series needs more time to tell a good story.
@@cesarordaz139 Look mon,Baby Yoda's cute and all,but it's not why I watch The Mandalorian. I like it's "Spaghetti Western in Space" vibes but the show needs more time to flesh out the characters and the universe.
Krennic’s character is that he is giving everything to the empire but he feels he isn’t getting anything in return. Krennic yelling all the time feels right as he has all his emotions boiling over. The first order command does not have this same scape goat. The first order is the strongest force in the galaxy at the time and has only failed at three things, not having star killer base destroyed, destroying the resistance, and destroying the Jedi. They destroyed the republic! They have establish dominance! They don’t need to command like this because people know they can very well win, yet they still command like a kid trying to act tough.
This. This is the biggest reason leaving the theaters that I had a bad feeling about Star Wars. I have no idea how the hell the antagonists are going to work, because there doesn't seem to be anyone fit to lead a giant space empire. I had other gripes, but aside from this and that casino filler my other issues with Disney Star Wars would take a while to put into words.
Yeah, seems the writers forgot that the antagonist, the villains, need to look dangerous and tough enough for the heroes to look good, for the conflict to look realistic. and yeah, the FO looks like a bunch of immature brats. I'd say Disney is having a "Villain" problem, as in general their latest ones seem to be lacking. but the First Order? they are a caricature, I can't take them seriously, and thus it makes the resistance/rebellion look bad from falling to them so badly *Ryan really shat the bed by making TLJ immediate to TFA
But that's the idea, they're supposed to be a caricature, they weren't supposed to be Empire 2.0, they were just a bunch of old commanders who wanted to make something like the Empire again but made what amounts to a terrorist group instead.
@Asteroid Mike then why should we care about the struggle of our main characters. The First Order is said to be the most threatening force in the Galaxy but there is no way for them to be such a threat as their leaders are incompetent. We are suppose to believe that just by force and no strategy they will conquer the whole galaxy?
I'd say being able to destroy 5 planets with one shot and still having tons of Star Destroyers around counts as being threatening, at least in the sense of physically and military might. They obviously had some strategy working because they've made it this long without being taken completely out since the Republic didn't think they were a threat, in fact no one did, and they spread their forces out all over the galaxy.
Kylo's intimidation factor is also hurt because two movies in, we've already seen him left laying twice by Rey, lightning-smacked by Snoke, and outright humiliated by Force Projection Luke. Compare that to Vader, we never saw him truly brought low until the final duel in Return of the Jedi.
I thought the whole point of Kylo Ren’s frustration was that he couldn’t choose a side. But now that he’s chosen a side, he still has these outbursts of anger? That’s disappointing.
I know....I see no way a person watching 9 can take these people seriously. After seeing what was done to Hux and Kylo Ren, even if they do try and fix/improve it now, it's too late! How can 'anyone' take them as a serious threat watching them, anymore? It's too little too late.
I'll try to be as civil as I can. The First Order simply comes across like a second-rate version of the Galactic Empire. And the Resistance strikes me as a faux version of the Rebel Alliance.
Pretty much everything in the sequel Trilogy is second-rate, the villains, heroes both organizations even the original trilogy heroes have turned into second rate people in the last 30 years inside the Star Wars universe.
The Resistance based on the canon novels, comics was NOT supported or popular. Leia was seen as a war monger & her dad being Darth Vader did not boost her ratings either. 😬
@@DavidLLambertmobile Now that would have made more sense, the biggest issue regarding the threat and legitimacy of organisations in the Sequels is context. TFA didn't give us any sense of the galaxy, who controlled what and what sort of backing or systems existed. The only reason I might suspect the New Republic might exist is prior lore, going by the movies I wouldn't be wrong to assume anarchy after the Empire's fall.
*The real problem* is, they are just so inconcistent. *Hux* was so intimidating, almost rivaling Kylo Ren in the Force Awakens, turned into an complete Joke in TLJ. *Kylo* on the other hand switches his mood every scene and we still dont even know the reason why.. It also doesnt help that Rey technically beat him *2 times* now... Why should I even be excited for the *3rd time*
She beat back his mind trick and kicked his ass in a saber duel in TFA, kicked his ass again in TLJ but it was almost a draw, then escaped him in the caves during the finale.
Kicked his ass again in TLJ? What scene am I missing here? They didn't fight! If you're referring to them both trying to force pull the saber, that was very clearly a tie. She just happened to wake up first.
Cas ual yeah I would also agree I thought Kylo and Hux were intimidating in some parts in the force awakens. I thought Hux’s speech was very intimidating. You look at that scene and then look at him in TLJ and I swear they are totally two different characters
As a military vet myself...I'll tell you that Hux isn't intimidating at all. His leadership style is irritating, like some boot ass Lt. trying to tell you how to do your job.
That.. that is a very good point. Krennic in Rogue One falls in the good villain category and aligns with the OT then: Composed, methodical, passionate, sure of himself, ruthless. His few moments of screaming have nothing remotely childish.
Plus, whenever he does start yelling, Darth Vader and Tarkin almost immediately take him down a peg in a calm intimidating manner, so even those moments are presented in a way that still makes the Empire feel intimidating to me.
The only time when screaming is actually intimidating is when the bad guy is truly psychotic or if the bad guy is usually quiet and well mannered then has a violent outburst.
But even that can be screwed - see Balem Abraxas from Jupiter Ascending. His delivery is one of the funniest things I've ever seen. Eddie Redmayne either cannot for the life of him play a villain, or recognized what a pile of garbage he is in and decided to at least have fun with it.
If Kylo Ren was really powerful and we didn't see him getting humiliated all the time, then the unhinged outbursts wouldn't make him appear as much of a pathetic loser.
In my mind the 2 examples I think of is Mads Mikkelsen from the Hannibal tv series and Heath Ledger as the Joker. Hearing either one of them suddenly cry out in rage would have me terrified cause one is simply a monster behind a veil of humanity while the other is so crazy that he seemingly slaughters just for the fun of it.
Nah they should have stuck with the emperial remnant and gone with the uzahn vong invasion instead, the war that made the republic and empire join forces to stop a bigger threat.
It’s incomprehensible how inept the writers/directors have been for the new Star Wars trilogy. Very tone def. it’s as if a sociopath attempted to write emotions into the script based on a misguided interpretation of reality. “TRAITORRRRR” I would laugh out loud on a battlefield if some dude responded like that after I’d switched sides
A 15 year old fan fiction writer who spent two hours reading "how to write fiction" articles on the internet could do a better job, and I'm not even kidding.
And TR-8R was still one of the most memorable parts of that movie. Let that sink in. (Like the stormtroopers stopping short when Kylo was having his temper tantrum, it was a detail I liked in humanizing the Imperial cannon fodder... shame they didn't follow up on that.)
General Hux came across as somebody who was bullied in the academy, never really got over it, and grew up to be incredibly whiny and self-pitying, and that utterly ridiculous half-screamed speech was little more than a temper tantrum aimed at his tormentors on a subconscious level.
I just didn't buy him even being in command. He and Kylo both lacked the maturity to do . . . anything really. It was one of many things that broke me out of the movie feeling in Force Awakens.
Fun fact, according to the novels, Hux's daddy was apparently a bigwig in the First Order before him. Which makes it sound a lot like he only got his position due to nepotism.
DING DING DING DING DING! Thank you! That's the problem with blockbuster writing nowadays: every movie tries to show how genre aware they are by being deconstructionist- not understanding that if you take a cat apart, you can't expect it to meow the same way if you put it back together. Weird metaphor aside, think how may times recently you've seen a character survive immeasurable odds, and then say, "that shouldn't have worked" to take away all the impacts? Every movie feels like a parody these days.
Yes and don't forget, a long time ago, it took 3 years between each episode to produce a trilogy. NOW, the NEW Lucasfilm corp rather that taking 6 months to write ( damn, they don't even write, they hire) the plot, they give only 6 weeks!!! Quantity over quality those days! I'm SO tired of reboot movies... lazy hollywood era ( 2010+) that seems to go on and on!!!
I think this goes to the notion that the empire is Nazis/fascists and the First Order is the alt-right. The alt-right is not intimidating. And yet, they accomplish some terrible sh*t. They aren't intimidating so they aren't taken seriously, in real life in the case of the alt-right and in the SW universe in the case of the First Order, which is partially how they've gotten where they have. This is possibly a classic example of SW fan can't accept something that isn't what they've already decided a thing should be, thereby missing out on something interesting.
Wretch Gunk I think it's more of a philosophical and tonal parallel than a 1 to 1, you know? Like, is the Sideous Hitler or is he Mussolini or is Vader or is he Goebbels? It's not everything lines up, but the OT is fascism vs democracy. And even though democracy wins, there emerges an echo, a neo fascism that adapts to a modern climate and has an absurd amount of success given that we can all just be like 'we just dealt with that sh*t.' Like a lot of the alt-right has this victim mentality even though they're trying to hurt people. Listen to the Hux speech or Kylo's petulance. They justify their cruelty with an imagined victimhood. That imagined victimhood also makes it hard for people to take the seriously or be frightened by them which in SW makes the Republic ignore them until they have a death star and in America makes us bicker of Bernie and Hillary until Trump is President.
Lol, Maul was shit. He appears in like two scenes and all he did on the first is conduct a cheap surprise attack. And then he didn't die apparently because the plot needed him for the novels. Just like Boba Fett, the guy is overrated; he's awesome when fighting though. I should know, I watched Star Wars as an adult on 2015 exactly before I watch TFA, I don't let nostalgia fool me.
And Maul didn't even talk much in the Phantom Menace. That's what I found terrifying about him. He hardly ever opened his mouth, and didn't waste time on expressing his beliefs to others.
@@Qwertzalcoatl I think the fact that Maul didnt say shit made him more interesting. We dont know his origin story. We just know Sidious sent him. He just appeared out of the shadows and started whooping ass. And he didnt do a sneak attack. He drew his lightsaber and challenged the 2 jedi head to head. Even though it was 2 on 1 he didnt care. He was ready to fight like a true warrior.
@Red Crusader Also I like that in the beginning he has maximum control but as things unravel for him he loses his control and thus his composure. Tarkin takes away his toy. On anyone youd have an emotional outburst. I also get the feeling that when watching that scene it's what Tarkin wanted him to do anyway. Shows he is ultimately in control and Krennic was never so important now the project Is done.
Krennic was honestly a fantastic character and easily the best villian disney star wars has put out. He's the Underdog Imperial who keeps getting screwed until he's finally broken.
I think the yelling worked for Krenic. He had power but you could tell he was a bad leader who was insecure of his failures and tried to seem tougher by yelling which for the opposite. You could see how his unstable nature showed why Tarkin was so willing to take the Death Star project from him.
Exactly. Krennic's screaming didn't bother me as much considering he was very much separate from the regular Imperial military hierarchy. So he may have felt safe yelling at Tarkin because Tarkin wasn't exactly his superior. Regardless, they played the yelling off as showing his own insecurity, so it worked.
I’ll do a more accurate version of this Original Trilogy: Cinematic masterpieces Prequel Trilogy: Imaginative but poorly executed Sequel Trilogy: Redundant and dull, does everything we don’t want, and doesn’t do everything we do want.
On a more serious point, I wonder if the lack of meme-worthy lines might be a part of the issue. Lots of fans could, with a bit of thought, name a dozen or so lines they remember from the other two trilogies (even if they remember them for the wrong reasons). This one, though? I've got "That's not how the Force works!" and "Don't destroy what you hate, save what you love" and "Everything you just said is wrong", but that's about it. Not great for 4.5 hours of film.
MovingStatues The only meme from the sequels I can actually think of is Swolo, and thats it, while I can think of about 20 from Revenge of the Sith alone. -This is where the fun begins - I’ve been looking forward to this -Twice the pride, double the fall - DEW IT. - Another fine addition to my collection - Not to worry, we’re still flying half a ship - Another happy landing - I’m not brave enough for politics - You’re on this council, but we do not grant you the rank of master - What about the droid attack on the wookiees? - Hello there - General Kenobi - Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise? - Oh I don’ think so - So uncivilised - I am the Senate - Its treason then - ‘Sheev Screech’ - No, no, no - UNLIMITED POWAH! - Execute Order 66 - Master Skywalker, there are too many of them, what are we going to do? - I saw a hologram of him killing younglings - My allegiance is to the republic, to DEMOCRACY! - Only a Sith deals in absolutes - Then you are lost - I have the high ground And Star War The Third Gathers: Backstroke of the West
PaladinGuy It's almost as if films are supposed to be immersive or something. Like you're not supposed to think it's a story told but a story happening.
Kylo Renn: "CRUSH THE RESISTANCE!" *[The Resistance blows up one of their bases]* Kylo Renn: "I JUST HATE YOU *SOOOO* MUCH!" *[Kylo Renn uses the Force to slam Hux against the floor]* Hux: "Uh!"
The original empire had a point. Despite killing the jedi and owning a "death star" they really did create peace across the galaxy. The New Order was created to be undeniably evil with no redeeming good, they are Nazis. We are suppose to hate the First Order and consider every member evil. . . Even though Finn is proof that this isn't true, I sure wish we had more story on that. To bad Finn's New Order experience is completely wasted, Finn only exists to chase Rey and get kiss by Rose.
Actually, there was a moment of camaraderie in The Last Jedi. They cut out a part in an elevator when a Stormtrooper recognised Finn when he was disguised. But, instead of alerting the other Stormtroopers of “Rebel scum”, he asked Finn if he remembered him from training, congratulated him for the “promotion” then slapped his butt like a stereotypical college frat boy before saying goodbye.
The treatment of Hux in TLJ was one of my biggest complaints. From the very first scene they made him a joke. He wasn't super intimidating in TFA but he at least seemed to have real authority and felt like the kind of guy that wouldn't hesitate to kill you for challenging him...now he's just a slap stick joke.
This is why I loved the Thrawn Trilogy. Thrawn was the ultimate threat, a worthy successor to Vader and the Emperor, along with C’baoth, whose mental instability made him all the more intimidating. Fantastic series of books, and I couldn’t recommend the Audible performance by Mark Thompson enough. Those were the sequels we needed.
P.S., if anyone wants, Audible does this thing where you can get a free audiobook if it’s your first time using Audible if someone sends it to you, so I’d be happy to send you Heir to the Empire (book 1/3 in the Thrawn Trilogy).
Yes!! Thrawn was a real villain to be feared, just listened to the Heir of the Empire audio book w/Mark Thomson, so good, this should have been what this new trilogy was based on! Kylo and Hux are terribly inept villains, epsecially on their own, bumbling man babies..
The First Order isn't intimidating, just annoying The Resistance has a terrible connection with their leaders and troops+officers Both are terrible. Also I honesty liked Snoke, Kylo and even Hux in TFA but TLJ turned them into a joke, literally. JJ was supposed to continue what he stared (which was alright to begin with), now has to clean up a massive pile of trash in *1 Movie*
Yeah TFA was on TV the other day and I watched it, and though "Oh yeah I actually did like this film". After TLJ I just had so much hate for the sequel trilogy, but the thing is I just REALLY hate TLJ. And a big part of it was it put so little thought into all of it's plot points. It also seemingly misunderstands that the FO is ruling the galaxy at the end of TFA, which they aren't. The opening line of TLJ is "The FO Reigns" and my question is reigns over what? TLJ takes place 10 minutes after TFA, did they take over the entire galaxy in those 10 minutes? In TLJ they explicitly state they are focusing all of their forces to fight and track down the resistance, so the fleets you see in TLJ is probably a large extent of the entire FO fleet.
KingCodester111 - yep. And that is a direct result of Rian Johnson’s shit on the entire plot and characters established in Ep7 just for the sake of trying to be “different” and “subversive”. What’s the point of Ep9 now?
megatom5 - all good points. And where the hell did all the Resistance go between ep 7 and 8? We literally had like a handful of people in a few spaceships.
The First Order in the Force Awakens had some legit intimidating factor to them, even ignoring Starkiller base. They would not hesitate to burn a village or bomb a marketplace just to get what they wanted. The Last Jedi really made them seem inept in the extreme. They had so much hardware that was massive and utterly useless. One of the reasons I found the movie so irritating.
They definitely come across as more intimidating as an organization in Force Awakens than Last Jedi. Though if I had to come up with an excuse, I would probably say that it is mostly due to them not operating at full capacity after the destruction of Starkiller Base and the loss of much of their personnel.
Rian, in his creative brilliance, decided to make the greatest hero in cinematic history into a suicidal coward who nearly murdered his nephew while he slept. Luke was dark and depressed, and willing to let his friends die while he waits to die. In order to balance this darkness, Rian had to lighten up TFO and make them more family friendly!
Jeremy: "Hux and Kylo need to build a dichotomy and grow into stronger characters"
Disney: Did you say... PALPATINE??
No Disney we did not nor did we want palpatine to be a puppet of random girl like wtf
Dew it
@@aprilshinto3081 You know that's not how the comic went right? She was a member of the administration who went behind his back to change things, got way to in over her head, and met the wrong end of Vader's Lightsaber?
@@pharoahman475 but y is she the supposed leader
@@aprilshinto3081 She's not, the story is told from her perspective and she views herself as the leader. This line of thought gets her killed by Vader after she oversteps her bounds.
Imagine Peter Cushing's Tarkin being thrown across the room just for laughs..
Vader and Tarkin respected each other. Vader was impressed by Tarkin's intelligence to command and Tarkin knew Vader wasn't to be messed with.
Absolutely
They were bro’s
Would never happen. I think Grand Moff Tarkin would take a shotgun to the head and still be standing there with a steely glare.
i could not only see that happenning but seeing him get back up and dive on vader...sure he would die but tarking tho
If they arn't yelling how can my tiny brain tell that they are bad guys?
Hey Bobby B
Sorry guys, the black helmet, black robes, deep voice, scarred face, and initial scenes of mass murder and genocide are nowhere near enough, we NEED more SCREAMING so the audience isn't confoosed.
More grace, your wine?
@@Siegfried5846 The only protagonists that are actually written to be intelligent are ones primarily only written in books and anime. Writing a character to constantly make bad decisions (especially when they're supposed to be some type of genius or have a clever personality) is one of my biggest pet peeves in books, movies and comics. Making a character do something incredibly stupid is not a valid obstacle in a plot, it's just lazy and terrible writing.
@@Siegfried5846 Predator is a great example of the protagonist actually conquering an obstacle and out-thinking it's opponent. The Predatory literally kills everyone aside from the protagonist and displays itself as an incredibly believable deadly force. There's no way Arnold can beat the Predator using simple brute force so in the end he has to out-think him using the knowledge he's gained throughout the film. The best part of that scenario is that the obstacle is actually a very believable one and it is shown by Arnold's entire platoon being slaughtered so the viewers understand the threat is real and it is a massive challenge for him to take on the Predator alone by the end. Additionally, the Predator doesn't say one word the entire movie, yet we understand he is a gigantic threat to the protagonist, all the while engaging the viewers into the story.
These types of believable obstacles are nearly nonexistent in the new Disney Star Wars movies, and the times they are there, it's just a rip off from the first Star Wars movie that's done far worse in the Disney soft-reboot. Instead of portraying the New Order as this massive incredibly deadly force of nature, it's portrayed as a joke and a total push-over. To be fair, the droid army in the prequels also had this problem, but it was much more forgiving because the Droid army was never the *real* *enemy* and was always just a decoy in some master-plan and dark twist against the Jedi.
In regards to your 2nd point, I think movies like Ant Man and Aquaman are sorta the exception because everyone understands those concepts are silly to begin with, so instead of the directors trying to polish a turd, they instead turn it into a flaming bag of poop and make the movie outrageous/unrealistic and fun to watch at the very least. I somewhat approve of this strategy (sometimes) even though those movies were never going to be great to begin with (you would have to be fecking Scorsese or Kubrick to actually make a good serious Aquaman or Ant Man movie). The 2nd Ant Man movie, however, was awful because it was just terribly written. At least in the first one, the hero was ridiculous, but they gave you something to care about with the father/daughter relationship (wanting his daughter to look up to him and his ex-wife to respect him). If that relationship was not written into the story, I guarantee the movie would've been totally emotionless and we wouldn't have cared about anything regarding the heroes journey.
However, I still partly agree with you as well. You really do have to make the movie take itself seriously if you want to make a genuinely good movie. The original Star Wars movie was an incredibly weird and ridiculous concept at the time, but George believed in his vision and he made it work by making the movie and characters take the story seriously as if the Galaxy really was at stake and under threat from a giant evil Empire.
At the same time though, look at the prequels (mainly just the first 2); George tried to make another serious movie/new story and it ended up going wrong for him. It's risky to make a relatively weird concept into a serious movie. Let's be honest, it would've taken a Herculean effort from the writers and directors to make a good or great Ant Man or Aquaman movie that took itself seriously. Disney deciding to fill the the sequel Star Wars movies with tons of jokes and clearly making the movies not take themselves seriously is Disney's way of playing it safe and not taking any risks by trying to tell a good story. I might rarely approve of this strategy when franchises or heroes get rebooted altogether, but Star Wars has always taken itself seriously, even when it didn't work well in parts of the prequels. Deciding to turn it into a totally lighthearted joke machine where even the most serious scene get interrupted by jokes/bathos, is, in my opinion, betraying the last 6 movies and 40 years of Star Wars and the universe that has already been established well before Disney bought the keys to the cash cow that at one point prioritized storytelling over money.
Sorry for the long comment, it's totally understandable if you didn't read the whole thing.
Mace Windu’s glare is more threatening than the first order.
Mace Windu's glare was more put together and organized than the entire Resistance
I visually saw this
Mace would just shove his lightsaber up Kylo's ass and call it a day.
mace window
Supreme Leader Jar Jar Binks should go away now
The Empire: 1940 Germany
First Order: 1945 Germany
Underated comment😂😂😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
😂😂😂 WOW...
Yup. Pretty much that.
Heinrich Dethahal Good analogy. The prequels: rise of Hitler in the 1930s (Palpatine)
Final Order: ???
Pretty much.
The First Order aren't intimidating and The Resistance aren't an organisation I can get behind.
James Carmichael Perfectly said, sir.
James Carmichael Hell, I wouldn't join the resistance, a leader who doesn't say shit to their subordinate about the plan is not worth following.
A house divided is no house at all. Holdo couldn't hold it all together.
You know what that means? POWER VACUUM!!! 🎵"It's the most wonderful time...for regime change"🎵
James Carmichael PREAAAAAAACH !
The Trade Federation's droids were more intimidating than the First Order.
Roger roger
That's not even a joke, they were.
Yeah in battle no matter how many battle droids you kill more just keep on coming as there are just soo many battle droids, and that can be intimating
That doesnt compute
@@thenacho6354 uhhh... You're under arrest!
“Vader can kill every person in that room but be doesn’t!”
Professionals have standards!
Be polite
@@neinherman9989 be efficient
@@noahmeehan1327 and have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
Professionals also know when to get help from others and when to... remove them, ending their ambitions to gain power.
It actually makes him scarier. It's like being locked in a cage with a trained tiger: You may die at any moment.
Kylo is like being locked in a cage with a pissed off poodle: It'll bitch and snap and bitch, but it's just a small loud dog.
The sequel trilogy if it were a relay race:
- JJ Abrams, Rian Johnson, and Colin Trevorrow are standing at the start.
- JJ runs around the track and hands the baton to Rian Johnson
- Rian takes the baton, throws it over his shoulder, and runs to an adjacent track to do hurdles, long jumping, pole-vaulting, ect.
- Coach Kennedy comes over and praises Rian Johnson for subverting expectations. She then tells Colin Trevorrow that she doesn't like the way he is standing and kicks him off the team.
- JJ picks up the baton and asks, WTF do I do now?
Hahahaha... love it (your example, not the movies OBVIOUSLY)
Robnoxious why are you acting like jj is the golden boy he created a shit story. If you like the force awakens you have no idea what makes a good story.
Because he at least created a decent, even if generic, base from which to springboard off of. While everyone else seems to be doing their damndest to squander that potential.
I wasn't particularly thrilled with TFA but at least it was a foundation to build on, maybe not a great foundation but take what you can get. TLJ not only didn't build on that foundation but seemed to do everything it could to undermine it for no discernible reason. The story going into 9 might as well be starting from scratch. It's pretty clear that the studio is in conflict with itself (whether it's just JJ and Johnson have a tantrum or if it goes deeper is anyone's guess) and the franchise is suffering for it. The big surprise to me is that Mickey is letting it go as far as it has and is risking serious harm to it's investment with this atrocious excuse for management.
And poor Mark Hammil is a veteran star on the original team a few decades ago. He's just standing on the sidelines in shock because the current racers have no idea how to run a race. He kept giving the team advice and tips while they were training but no one listened to the seasoned veteran. All Mark can do is look on powerlessly as the team he helped build so many years ago falls apart.
Two movies in this damn trilogy, and I still don’t know what the First Order is supposed to be.
Edit: Ok so we’re now three movies in the damn trilogy and I still am not 100% sure what The First Order was
The first order is Ursula's crazy sister. Wanna be of a previous villian, but nowhere near as fun or even memorable.
A poor man's cosplay of the empire
Shit version of the empire
Or the Resistance and their relationship with the Republic. What the HELL is even going on?? I know there's probably out-of-film content that tries to explain it, but all we're presented with in the films is good guys vs bad guys set up to look like the originals.
A group of imbeciles trying very hard to equal the Empire and failing miserably, just like Kylo Ren really wants to be just like Darth Vader but he will never be that good because he has the sinister look and the cool lightsaber yet he's a complete wuss.
To be fair, I kind of liked that Krennic was panicky and on edge for the entire movie. He was under extreme pressure from Vader, Tarkin, and the Emperor to finish a project that was fraught with problems, and after all that his glory was stolen from him. He didn't come across as intimidating because he was intimidated.
For all the faults Rogue One had, I think Krennic was one of the better parts.
Rogue one is the best new star wars movie by far the other two or three if you count solo where absolute rubbish watched the last jedi well half of it could not take anymore of its nonsense.
Problem is that it is already established that the Empire handled projects one by one without any central development organisation which leaves no room for any Director Krennic.
In original Canon he couldn't exist.
Are we blind? Deploy the thumbs up to this comment! MOVE!
Krennic seemed hand-crafted to be Tarkin's foil. Tarkin is powerful and under control. Krennic slowly loses his power, shifting from a quiet, "deal you can't refuse"-offering Imperial officer on the Erso homestead to a pawn in Tarkin's rise to prominence aboard the Death Star.
@@punbug4721
I also thought the part where he goes to complain to Vader about Tarkin was amazing because it was showing that being a whiner doesn't fly in the Empire.
General Hux's speech was the only time it would've made sense for them to yell
NinjaPuppy he had no mic so yeah 😂
@@landryharrell7 And no eye protection when the giant laser fired
Well, there was the time when Vice Admiral Holdo was about to do the audience a favor by committing suicide, and Hux screamed:
*"FIRE ON THAT CRUISER!"*
I think under those circumstances, it was okay to yell.
@@warrioroflight6872 I found that line so stupid. It means that they know what she's going to do is possible which means that during the entire movie, they knew it would be that easy but just decided not to do anything about it. That to me shows just how incompetent these idiots are.
Why does he even give his speech? Stormtroopers are already brainwashed.
"You're so right"
Yousa right*
Hello there
Oh it's you
Hi
General Theorobi!
I can forgive Krennik screaming. He's an engineer, a project lead. An administrator. His job isn't to command troops or rule star systems. His job was to manage the building and development of the death star. The soldiers he had were always temporary. Borrowed from other commanders or put in charge of to get him out of the way.
He screamed because throughout the movie he was having a mental breakdown, his years of hard work were being scatched from him before his eyes and he was powerless to stop it. Hence. A mental breakdown.
I mean, if you were force-choked by Vader and he made a pun while letting you survive you'd go off the deep end too.
@@sachinbhajekar I mean, that's just how any project goes right? The hard workers get fucked while the project lead takes the credit and promotion.
Insert “The Office Thank You Meme” here.
That's interesting. I'll to think that one over. You're probably right about that.
I agree. That outburst fit in with what Jeremy said, that screaming in these scenarios usually means you've lost control of the situation, which is precisely what happened to Krennic
They should have made Hux an old veteran of the Empire, completely brutal and unrelenting, wanting revenge. Have him win some battles and crush the rebels so space/ground fights are actually exciting. Basic shit that they couldn’t get right for some reason.
Sounds like Grand Admiral Thrawn
I agree
Veers? The actor is stil alive... He was in GoT.
Just like that Dreadnaught captain, he should have lived...
All the good imperial leaders either died at the Battle of Endor, or they surrendered to the fledgling New Republic.
Empire: run by Clone War veterans and powerful Sith Lords who killed Jedi in their own right.
First Order: run by kids
Actually the clone troops went out of phase after the birth of the Empire. Stormtroopers are just a bunch of no aim soldiers.
たける Colonel Yularen: ran the ISB and its academy, clone war veteran
Grand Moff Tarkin: second only to the Emperor, clone war veteran
Commander Cody: much as he hated it, was in charge of training newbies, clone wars veteran
Sergeant Appo: saved Vader on one known occasion, leader of the 501st after Rex faked death, Clone wars veteran
Darth Vader: powerful Sith Lord and one of the most powerful figures in the empire, Clone Wars veteran
I can make you a list it keeps going, Clones and Jedi weren’t the only ones who fought in the Clone Wars, there were hundreds of non clone officers and soldiers
@Hans Cascante alright i know of those vast veterans. I was referring to clone veterans specifically from topic of veterans who killed Jedi because I misunderstood your comment, sounding like there were lots of Sith when there was only two. All other shown Jedi killers during their wipeout were clone troopers.
Hans Cascante The Confederacy of Independent Systems/CIS/Separatists: Run by a coalition of leaders from across the galaxy who were opposed to the Republic’s bureaucracy and corruption, backed by many organisations including the trade federation and commerce guild and led by Count Dooku, a menacing ex-Jedi who can defeat Obi-Wan and Anakin and hold his own against Yoda. They had enough droid forces to not only spread the entire Jedi and clone forces across the galaxy, but even launch attacks on Coruscant and capture Palpatine. The only reason they were wiped out was because Darth Sidious was pulling the strings from behind the scenes the entire time to build his empire, and when the Separatist’s purpose was achieved, he sent Vader to kill the leaders and meld the independent systems with the empire, whether they liked it or not.
The empire's incompetence is legendary. It also only lasted 20 years. That empire was shit.
It is surprising how the empire was something you feared but The First Order we don't. I would say the only thing I feared was Snoke. And well... He's half the man he once was. So it's a blow to the First Order.
NET Alliance he is dead dude.
^^^This guy didn’t catch it. Lol
alonsonic Did his pun fly right over your head? :P
alonsonic ya don't say!?!
Hey, Darth Maul got cut in half but somehow survived so maybe Snoke will do the same.
Basically at the end of TLJ I found myself wondering "does it matter whether The First Order or the Resistance wins?". Either way the galaxy is stuck with an order of shmucks. Please bring on the Yuzong Vong......
they PROBABLY should'nt have made the resistance look like bad guys in FInn's plot thread...
They (Rian Johnson) PROBABLY should have trimmed down the part of the movie with the First Order chasing the resistance and/or eliminated Canto Bight. That would have given enough time to focus on the dynamic between Rey/Luke and answering questions from TFA.
I would love to see the yuzong vong, sadly it's no longer Canon
@@Dsturb85 Still canon as long as you ignore the "canon" from our RJ, KK, and JJA overlords that are the servants of the, now, vile overlord known as Disney. A real world evil that would seek to mutilate a great franchise all for the money possible and have a good jolly laugh in all our faces (as we despair at the immense loss (millions of voices crying out in terror)).
Yes. I want to see that. If they have enough creativity they can pull it out. During the chaos of the First Order and the Resistance fighting, the Yuuzhan Vong appear and start terraforming planets. Then the situation becomes so critical that both sides are forced to make an Alliance so they can fight them off. Or even better. Make Jaina Solo. Include in a way like she went training to Dagobah or Mortis or wherever, then came into a deep meditation. Then she awakens and decides to help. And better, make her a fun character. Don't make her a cold veteran daugther of heroes, or a wise Jedi knight, or a SJW, or another Mary Sue. Make her *FUN* . Make her crack a few jokes. Piss off the characters in a joking way. Maybe even snort of whatever. But also show that she can fight. Make her defeat Stormtroopers like its childs play, even being able to do it unarmed. Make her kick Kylo's ass easily and maybe have a conflict, where she hates her brother cause he killed their father and trillions of people. Show her internally suffering, but still putting on a smile because she knows that she needs to be strong. That she needs to help others. Also make her enjoyable to watch. That's all. I've probably make a better plot, character, interactions and character development than Rian Johnson.
What Jeremy Jahns speaks about here, is something every parent knows, intuitively. It is not the parent who yells at every infraction whoincites fear in children. It is the parent who is calm and cool when confronted by most of their children's antics, but then raises their voice when enraged by something serious, who the kids take seriously. If all you do is yell at your kids 24/7, they tune you out. The same goes for institutions - whether real or in the world of fiction.
agreed
Precisely
My dad is the most gentle and kind hearted man I've ever known, and yet he is absolutely terrifying when angry. In 30 years, he's yelled at me 4 times; the last time being probably 18 years ago, but I can still hear the tone in his voice clear as day.
lol, my kids refer to my "mad face". I was able to inform them something was amiss just be looking at them. My dog knows it too. Not a word to be spoken.
Agreed. My mother usually shouted at me on a regular basis, and I only slightly paid attention, whilst my father hardly ever intervened if I did something wrong. But when I made a major mistake, he let me know about it in no uncertain terms.
"The First Order needs leaders, not tweeters."
That's actually a beautiful quote, Jeremy.
And sadly relevant for the modern world, too....
Trump 2020
Marvel Disneyfan pretty fitting right now lol
The first order belong in Space Balls
John McGrath do not disrespect Spaceballs. That is actually good.
There's no reason to ruin spaceballs.
Makes you ask the question who in the first order is an Asshole?
Ha! Great laugh, thanks y'all, made my day.
My mom actually made the comment, "What is this, Spaceballs?" when we were watching the opening scene with Poe and Hux talking for the first time. lol
"The empire needs leaders, not tweeters" - Jeremy Jahns 2018
You know who was intimidating ... Amon from Legend of Korra. And he never yelled. He was chilling because he was so cold. Same with Vader. Same with (the original) Thrawn.
Heck, even the Thrawn in Rebels was calm and collected, seemingly always having everything in control. Even when his plan failed (which since it was a kids show, it of course had to for the main characters to survive) he was still calm and simply looked at it as a "that is interesting, I will have to remember this" learning experience.
Like the Night King from Game of Thrones, only completely silent.
You know, that's funny. I HATED the Legend of Korra with a passion. But if there was one thing they did right, it was Amon. I did have respect for the job they did in making him intimidating. They did a good job with him.
Thanos doesn't yell but boy Brolin's performance in Infinity War is really intimidating. "I hope they remember you"
Was trying to forget about Korra.
The calmness in Darth Vader's demeanor is actually more intimidating than the first order.
Real strong characters/people are calm and collected because they and everyone else knows they are the alpha. Vader was so confident because he only had the Emperor that was stronger and EVERYONE knew it.
Yep. All the calm villains always dominates over the loud ones. Cause you don’t know what’s going on in their head making them unpredictable. The loud ones give themselves away early on because by the fact that you learn about their instability, you pretty much know were you have them. Sure it doesn’t apply to all the loud angry villains but if we just compare the suspense between the likes of for example Tuco vs Gus Fring, Cell vs Frieza, Book Voldemort vs Film Voldemort, That teenage gang in Once upon a time in Hollywood vs Hans Landa, or in this case Vader vs Kylo Ren, the calms ones are always the ones that makes one go quiet.
@@Norman_Fleming Dragon Ball Z fans, when you first read/watched the original Saiyan Saga, who did you think was more intimidating, Nappa or Vegeta?
One Piece fans, in Ennies Lobby, who did you think was more intimidating, Rob Lucci, or literally any other member of CP9?
Naruto fans, who did you think was more intimidating, Kisame or Itachi?
Bleach fans, who did you think was more intimitating, Uquiora or Yammy? (Actually that's a trick question, that duo was quite obviously inspired by Nappa and Vegeta)
I rest my case.
Vader was all about business.
Because of course, it makes them more unpredictable. Someone shouting and screaming is not very intimidating and quite frankly, annoying.
The captain of the Dreadnaught was the most Empire of any character currently in the first order.
Because he was part of the Empire before it fell.
Yeah he had the same stupid arrogant as most imperial officers (launch tie fighters? No thats for pussys!)
Captain cannady I think was his name
Actually, no, he grumbled about how they should've launched fighters much earlier. Hux was the idiot for not launching fighters or providing ranged fire support against the bombers (which were big enough to be targeted by their main guns).
Which is why he died almost immediately. Because God forbid they hang onto a character who serves any more of a purpose than to further the plot for Rey and Kylo to fuck.
Don't forget about Phasma, who had a lot of potential but is almost a meme of a metallic trooper yelling TRAITOR!
It makes it even more ironic and sad that in the scheme of things Phasma had the most potential to authentically execute what their ideology is aiming for in showing that you can have strong female characters, and yet they treat her as the most disposable.
Tbf Phasma was just as overrated as Boba Fett. Only became popular because of her armour and nothing else.
I honestly thought it was hilarious how they hyped up her character being a big badass in a lot of the pre-film media for The Force Awakens and that Gwendolyn Christie is playing her, but then the film comes out and she has about 3 minutes of screen time, 5 lines, never takes off her helmet to take advantage of the actress, and gets stuffed down a garbage chute.
@@Paul91- In defense of Boba Fett, aside from having cool armor, a cool voice, etc., he did come off as intimidating and intelligent and did things that were substantial. I wish he did more in the movies as I'm sure others do based on how powerful and strategic the character is shown to be in other media, but it's not as if he did nothing or had no qualities other than appearance that would justify how popular he is. Captain Phasma also happens to be a bit more interesting when you read outside media as well, but when making a movie, you CANNOT rely on the guess that a person read or saw whatever that media was.
I feel like there was supposed to be something for her, but it just never materialized.
TFA made them a less intimidating version of the Empire.
TLJ made them into Saturday morning cartoon villains...
In TFA, I was like: "How the hell did they mess-up so badly to get another Empire-wannabe?"
Now, I will never be able watch these "re-boot" movies without thinking of Skeletor and Cobra Commander.
Justa Person agreed
@@tmalone2391 I'd take Skelator and Cobra Commander in a heartbeat over these guys.
@@amannamedsquid313 Skeletor was more badass than the entirety of the FO
Darth Vader when he’s pissed.
Level 1: Warns ppl bout it.
Level 2: Kills anyone.
Kylo Ren when he’s pissed.
Level 1: Destroys his equipment
Level 2: Screams
Level 3: Beats up Hux
Level 4: Destroys more equipment
Level 5: Chokes his soldiers
Smoke when he's pissed.
Level 1: throws his officers around and mops the floor with them
That's intentional, he's supposed to be inferior to Vader. He wants to be like Darth Vader but he's too stupid and short-tempered to be as successful as him
He’s conflicted
SPOILER ALERT:He's dead now so job done!
@@WiloPolis03
It's not because it was intentional that it was a good idea . I could tell my teacher that I voluntarily didn't use the intro, development conclusion pattern because I thought it would be better this way but he will still give me an F .
The Empire is just much more mature. Tarkin was a regional governor, Vader was the enforcer, and the Emperor never raised his voice. It was all very menacing. By contrast, the new trilogy is like watching two five year old children screaming at each other. The only saving grace was Phasma, and she's useless and dead.
and snoke could've been the big bad who'd tie everything together, fix these issues....if it weren't for him being killed off with not a hint to his backstory or motives all so Kylo fucking Ren could be put up as the big bad. The screaming, whiny, fli-flopping manchild Darth Vader wannabe.
My Hero Academia did this plot point MUCH better.
Ichaelis.......... They didn't even have to do that. If the Resistance was paid for by the Republic. I think it would have worked out much better as something like the Resistance spying on the First Order, infiltrating their base, and setting explosive charges. Or maybe as having the resistance be like the Maquis resistance from WWII. They live in occupied territory and have to sabotage the first order's machinery. Or even something like the modern Afghani resistance to every country that wants to take them over.
They literally threw Phasma in the trash in the first movie. There's no joke more damning than the script.
There's also the fact that the Emperor and sometimes Vader did evil stuff just for the sake of doing evil stuff. Snoke came off like a kindergarten teacher trying to keep a bunch of hyper kids in line.
Dominic Campbell You explained Snoke perfectly
"Snoke came off like a kindergarten teacher trying to keep a bunch of hyper kids in line." That's literally how all empires are run.
PaladinGuy Considering the Galactic Empire seemed a lot more structured and Palpatine didnt spend half as much time reprimanding bad soldiers, probably not
PaladinGuy True, but Palpatine was a good teacher and Snoke is the guy who doesn't even complete his student's training.
The scariest of people are thw quiet and calm. The Nazi Commander from Inglorious Bastards was Calm and never broke his calmness and He was the character that kept me on the edge.
Precisely the same reason why Hitler's Nein nein nein nein nein is a meme. Its funny because he's lost control of the situation. The loud screaming villains are not intimidating, the quiet calm ones are.
Same with Hannibal Lecter and John Doe.
Anton Chigurh
Original Taking of Pelham 123 with Robert Shaw (calm, in control, sincere = menacing) vs remake with John Travolta (yelling, manic, not in control).
Hans Landa was spectacular.
The thing with krennic is that he’s intimidating at the start, and starts yelling when is his toy is taken away, he essentially becomes another cog in the system, so I kinda like his unhinging
“Leaders not tweeters” is THE best critique I’ve heard of the new trilogy so far
lol bag the same could be said about the leaders of earth right now. Which I suspect is why the first order is what it is. It wouldn’t surprise me if Kylo Ren complains about fake news on space twitter. No, it’s not as intimidating, but it’s scary in its own way. Power in the hands of impulsive brats are terrifying. Well I think so anyway. It’s cool if you don’t like it, we all are entitled to have opinions
Ulkair what's funny is that Hillary acted like spoiled Kylo Ren constantly! If she didn't get her way she would scream and break shit. She's worse.
Adam Nelson That’s debatable, but that’s not the discussion. This is a debate about how bad or good villains the first order is. I just mentioned the political climate of today, because I believe that it was an inspiration for the writers. Fascism has changed since the 70s, so it’s logical that Star Wars show that change with their new villains. Hillary Clinton has nothing to do with it at all
lol bag definitely can see this quote being use in the next family guy or sitcom shows parody scenes. Which is sad for star wars franchise. 😆
Harold Hernandez wanna see trump and putin as superheroes? That's in itself is already cringe enough. But to some, it's their only heaven on earth go to guys. Crazy yet weird world we live in nowadays. 😁
Remember when Joffrey insulted Tywin in front of the council and Tywim calmly sent Joffrey to bed? Joffrey yelled that he wasn't tired because he is a child, but the audience sides with Tywin because he shows authority and maturity. I would say that Star Wars should learn from this, but they shouldn't have to because the original trilogy already understood how to create compelling villains.
I understand the more personal dynamic they were going for with Kylo Ren, but the entirety of tbe First Order shouldn't act like him. Snoke or Hux should have been his stopping power. They should treat him as an annoyance, but we understand that they don't kill him because he is too valuable with his use of the force.
Honestly, Tywin would have made a more interesting Star Wars villain than Kylo.
The power of Tywin's glares alone makes him more intimating than the entire First Order.
yut Bro great comment, I completely agree.
Tarkin is Tywin confirmed.
The loud order
😂😂
😂😂😂😂
Duck Tape STOP SHOUTING IT WAS A JOKE!
You mean lousy Order :D
LOUD NOISES!
I couldn't help but laugh every time Ren had one of his fits. He kinda reminded me of four year old throwing a fit because his mom told him he couldn't get any candy.
Ren is like sam in return of the king when he's rescuing frodo from the tower in Mordor. The orcs see his shadow, are intimidated until the facade is removed to see a tiny hobbit. That whole scene in ROTK could describe the first order too.
He's no Ren, that's a made up name. He's goddamn Ben. He didnt do anything to deserve a cool nickname.
Honestly, Kylo Ren as an irrational brat throwing tantrums _still_ could have made for a decent villain if there were other, more stable bad guys (like Snoke or Hux) to compensate for him, but _The Last Jedi_ shot that option out the airlock.
Ren feels like a knock off Vader, like they are trying to mimic Vader’s violent response people displeasing him, but can’t have Kylo being the cold blooded killer Vader was. When Vader was displeased with someone he maintained an outward calm, but choked them to death with the force. When Ren gets mad, he has a temper-tantrum and takes his anger out on a computer terminal.
I mean... that's kinda the point. He's intentionally supposed to be dumber, wimpier, and much less contained than Darth Vader. Even Supreme Leader Snoke points out how stupid his useless helmet is
An issue I feel The First Order has, is that it comes across as just a random plot device. Gonna paraphrase Lindsay Ellis now (Go check her First Order Ideology video). The Empire was the established form of government in the galaxy. Even if you didn't know its origin in the OT, their ideals and their position in the galaxy was easy to understand and very plausible. The First Order was created just because JJ wanted Empire Part 2, even if it didn't make sense in its own world. The First Order is not the established form of government. They're some evil agitators with another Death Star, so it's kinda hard to take them seriously. Not that The Resistance are much better but since this is about The First Order...
The first order should have been a death cult of extremists and the resistance should have been new republic special ops. Also tfa should have had its major conflict be the facility where they brainwash the troopers
Trim Prism The problem is that nowadays you can not just use space nazi and expect people to accept it without question, especially when your characters are all blands
The whole movie (and trilogy) could have been so much better if the first order, in the role of extremists, would have succeeded in destabilizing the republic with inside support, and the role of the "good guys" as the new goverment were to shut down the rebelion but failed. The reversal of roles would have been so powerful as a concept had it been more fleshed out.
The ambiguity of the characters would make a lot more sense, hell you can even fix almost all the plot holes with that. Why would Han run away? because he is a smuggler at heart, not some goverment stooge. Why does Luke go into exile? Because he sees the darkness within the new republic before anything happens. Leia is a diplomatic figure, daughter of a senator and sole survivor of the single greatest genocide made in all of the movies up to that point, why isn't she in a political role? it doesn't make any sense that she would go into a military career having no experience at all. But she had to be a "stronk wahmen", so no politics, off to the military with her. As if women in politics wasn't THE BIGGEST ISSUE IN FEMINISM FOR THE LAST CENTURY.
It should be a heavy conflict for Leia to see the rise this new rebel group of extremists with heavy support from people of the republic, because that is what the rebel alliance were to the empire, a guerrilla suported in secret by the ruling classes of the old republic. It would have been so powerfull to see them try to engage in diplomacy and then have Kylo Ren to just turn everyone into their puppets with his mind magic, and having the first order use this as propaganda to bring public opinion against the new republic. Forcing the republic to attack civilian worlds as collateral damage and then turn the public opinion against them.
It would be the more fitting narrative analogue, and strongly show both a reversal of roles yet maintain the moral position of each side to the audience. It would also fix the threat perception of the first order to the audience, because they now are not an organiced profesional military, they are terrorists with a genius propaganda machine and fueling off the resentment of some elements inside the republic. That way, if any calm authority ever rises inside the first order and takes command, now the audience can rightfully feel that shit has hit the fan, because if they were threatening before being organized, imagine now that they have actual leaders.
I don't know, the whole movie (force awakens) kinda went downhill to me when i saw that they never really portrayed the republic as the actual goverment, and the first order as the scrappy little band of crazies they "said" they were supposed to be. The republic, being the actual legit goverment, still operates from jungle bases? And they just let anybody into their military?? And the group of crazy extremists can fund themselves a super weapon the size of a planet?? It doesn't work, they didn't even try to make sense, it was an obvious cash grab.
+2manynegativewaves For sure! I recommend her Hobbit trilogy.
Trim Prism exactly this. The "new order" is just a joke. It doesnt feels like a big, bad, powerful, intergalactic Empire, it feels like it's there for the plot and the plot alone.
So the difference between Tywin Lannister and Joffrey Baratheon.
Joffrey was genuinely evil. Until we see the FO torture people or take pleasure in others' pain, they will never measure up to him.
The Truth perfect example
Yes. Tywin’s actor would be awesome as a star wars villain.
Tywin is basically Grand Moff Tarkin with children
Perfection
One of the things I don't like about new trilogy is that they think ''The bigger, the better''. Let's make new Death Star, just bigger and more destructive, let's make AT-AT, just bigger, no reason for that at all, let's show thousands of Stormtroopers when they have a speech, but when they need to fight, there will be 5 of them in the background. Snoke, well he is just bigger Emperror, more powerfull, but we won't show it, just say it, who is he, we have no idea, we will explain it in book in 5 years. Bigger is not better!!!!
.
Not only are they bigger, but they are much more pathetic too.
Yep.
Maybe the First Order trying to make everything bigger is them overcompensating a bit? "My Death Star's bigger than your Death Star. :P"
i feel zero tension watching these new movies
They're like the animated disney sequels from the 90s.
The real problem is that we are watching this shit. I will try to not watch this last chapter, stopped caring about star wars
@@markborishnikoff5485 Ha!
@@ovidiucaramida1526 Me neither, already got burned with TFA and TLJ
@@larinho80 I don't know about everyone's opinion on the sequels but I gave up after TFA, could see the trainwreck coming from a mile away tbh.
Have you heard the Tragedy of Darth CAPS LOCK The Loud?
Matteus Silvestre This is gold, definitely meme material
Didn't he scream himself to death?
It's a REALLY LOUD LEGEND.
The most powerful Jedi in Skyrim.
Though in space no one can hear your scream.
IS IT POSSIBLE TO LEARN THIS POWER
Can we just have Luke wake up screaming with eps 7 & 8 just being a nightmare? A warning from the Force?
GameHopping Hahaha Yes!
GameHopping please
I'm fine with keeping 7. Yea, Han was a deadbeat dad and was kinda wasted unnecessarily, but at least he went out on Harrison's terms. Any competent writer could have fixed Rey's character flaws in 8.
I would pitch JJ's next movie to open on Luke's face as he meditates on Ahch-To. He looks to be very uncomfortable and in great agony. The sound of the Falcon overhead jolts him awake. He mutters to himself while watching the ship land "this can't be how it ends..." Rey approaches and hands Luke his sabre. He grabs it, nods, and says "we have much to do, let's get to work!" Queue the Star Wars theme 'DUN DUN DUN DUUUUN...'
Yes
Hey man, just an elevator pitch. I wan't 8 to be just a nightmare that Luke wakes up from. That will never happen, and I'm not convinced that it would be a smart move for Lucasfilm, but it makes me happy to think that it could be possible.
Here's how the First Order would be terrifying:
Make it a small remnant of the Empire with NOTHING to lose. They basically become the Rebellion from the OT. Hit and run tactics. A cornered animal is far more terrifying and frightening.
SteelerFan716 maybe like how the Empire was based on the nazis give the New Order a little touch from the imperial japanese army. Utterly devoted to their cause and willing to die for it.
Would probably be too dark though.
SteelerFan716 yes! With them using "small" essentially nuclear weapons to Wipeout all life on a planet and that being how they take out the republic not a bigger death star. Using the same tactics of the Rebellion used. Learning from the enemy. Now that would be a scary and cool bad guy
Yes that’s exactly what they should have been, see the Dark Empire comic series. Instead we got a lazy, and pisspoor redo of the Empire.
While this would be awesome, current Lucasfilm would never do this. Remember their motto: Messaging over Movie! If they created an underdog rise to power situation with the bad guys, then some movie fans might really enjoy those characters and somewhat root for them (like certain Bond villains, for example). That is absolutely unacceptable with current Lucasfilm, because any fascist-leaning organization must not only be portrayed as 100% evil, the must also be shown to be complete and utter clowns. The Nazi's were definitely evil, but their efficiency, organization, and military tactics were certainly impressive and terrifying. In the age of Trump, current Lucasfilm would rather hammer home the message that 'fascists are insecure and pitiful losers, not just evil' than make a compelling universe.
(PS. I'm a centrist Canadian, meaning that I would be a SUPER left-wing American when it comes to politics)
Except we're on movie 8, heading into 9 now. Too late for that, now it's shit. :P
Cool, calm and collective:
" You may fire when ready "
Crush them with one swift stroke
Collected*
Kylo Ren’s first appearance set a good precedent for his character. Silently stopping Poe’s blaster shot and calmly interrogating him. By the end of TLJ, that is all undone.
Yes and no. In my opinion, it was both a hit and a miss in the sense that it did make Kylo intimidating and a threat, but it showed him as ineffectual and childish evil. Instead of taking the old man for torture and extract information right then and there, Kylo had a tantrum and killed the sole person that could have told Kylo who or what the First Order had to look for. Instead of questioning or torturing Poe in the spot for basic questions ("are there other Resistance members here?" "Where's the data-chip?" etc.) Kylo merely stares at Poe and then leaves, taking Poe with him, without even ordering Phasma to search EVERYTHING and EVERYWHERE after she kills the entire village. In fact, Kylo stupidly repeats this error when he kidnaps Rey rather than taking all the prisoners away (including BB8 who had the bloody data-chip).
Hence, the First Order came off as a dangerous villian albeit an incompetent one.
when kylo throws his temper tantrums and then loses to ray, that made me lose respect for him by the end of tfa
Kylo Ren losing to Rey in TFA makes sense for the situation that ending scene set up. He was badly wounded by Chewie’s caster bolt (a weapon shown more than once in that film to have great power) and Rey already knew how to fight. It’s no perfect, but it at least makes logistical sense. Unlike Rey beating Luke somehow.
Also we were all banking on Rey being a Skywalker or a Padawan whose memory has been wiped by Luke and that was why she so adept at the Force. This of course did not happen
Austin Beattie it was in TFA.
I feel like Dr. Malcolm from Jurassic Park said it best.. “the most awesome force the planet's ever seen, but you wield it like a kid that's found his dad's gun.”
The empire from the original trilogy established themselves as not only the galactic government, but their ability in testing their strength when it’s necessary.
The first order on the other hand, they stood on the shoulders of giants and continued what the empire had done but didn’t really consider the repercussions, they blew up an entire system of republic planets for God sake!!
Yes the empire blew up some planets here and there, but ultimately they understood that they needed a structured system that would bend to their will. The first order on the other hand just screams and blows up everything they don’t like.
I agree with everything you say, only I actually think that is what makes Kylo and Hux so much more interesting.
Apparently no one else considered the repercussions, either! They wiped out 5 planets at once, and no one cared! The only ones that had any concern was Leia's small fleet. Republic: We didn't like them, anyway....and those planets blocked our view! :P
I believe that this specific problem complements that fact that we know nothing about The First Order in general. We don't know how strong they are, what their history is, or what their motivations are. How are we supposed to take them seriously in an established universe if we know nothing about them?
Granted we knew little about the empire when the original trilogy came out, but that was the very beginning of the franchise. Lucus had a blank slate and he thrust us into the action. Plus we knew enough about their past to have a solid understanding. They overthrew a Rebublic and Vader betrayed the Jedi after being seduced by the Emporer. That's enough info. Plus the prequels really fleshed out Palpatine's master plan and we see it took an abandance of resources, time, and planning.
How is it within the fathom of believability for the First Order to just show up, gain enough resources to amass an army while the republic is still in power, proceed to blow up the Republic, and then take over the galaxy with no resestance except from the Resistance. Destroying a government is not the same as taking over the galaxy, espacially when every planet has it's own goverment and military and would be furious that their representative to the Republic was just killed. I know that there is a further explanation in comics, books, tweets by the film makers, etc but that is irrelevant. A good movie should explain the information necessary for the story to make sense in the movie itself with no extra material being needed. (On a side note and from the information I have read, I am not at all satisfied with the First Order's backstories provided in the expanded material.)
In short, is makes no sense for the First Order to just take over in the context of the prequels and established Star Wars history. As a result, how are we the audience supposed to take them seriously if their very presence makes no sense? It does not help that they just killed Snoke, the one character that could provide an explanation for the First Order's history and power. Frankly, Snoke's death seems insulting, like the filmmakers are essentially telling the viewers that the backstory is irrelevent and does not matter even though is clearly does to understand the context of the film. This coupled with the lack of intimidation discussed by Jeremy in the video above (and poor use of comedy) makes me have zero respect for First Order. It doesn't help that they seem to just copy the Empire's vehicles and accordingly have next to zero originality.
Amen! Holy shit does this annoy the shit outa me. For people who aren't aware of the lore in some recent video games and novels and shit, most people are thinking.... wait a sec - i thought the rebels defeated the empire at the end of "The Return of the Jedi"? So....Where the fuck did this "first order" even come from? Why don't they just refer to themselves as The Empire still, cuz don't they have the same sorta goals....? And if not, than what the fuck ARE their effin goals!? How'd they go from being a non-entity to reconquering the galaxy so fast?
I know how stupid they are now, and this is enough to not feel threatened at all.
Obi-Wan Kenobi I don't like the sequels, I hate them, but your statement is somewhat hypocritical. We knew nothing about the Empire in the original Trilogy but we still feared them.
Well put, master Jedi. In the OT we didn't need explanation about the Empire, the name 'Galactic Empire' already invokes the idea of galaxy spannig government. Then with the openning scene of huge destroyer chasing small cruiser and white armored well organized stormtroopers tell what kind of this empire is. It is everywhere and it has power. Then of course we got more details later but that gives the idea.
Then again the name 'First Order' doesn't really tell anything. Military order of some kind but what they are for? Then we them with similar armoured troops and that rises the first questions, how, where. Last time we were in this galaxy these feckers were defeated. And they are killing some civialians just to be evil, I guess. Only when they battle against the Rebe- I mean Recistance in that tavern planet we get idea of their power and they both seem to be as powerful which rises even more questions of how, with what kind of backing. This is 30 years later in the story.
Maybe if they called it "The Order of Ren", it wouldn't be the clearest name but with Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren on top it would give some idea. Maybe grand master Snoke is re-establishing the empire as Kylo as the legitimate emperor since he is the grandson of Vader. Have openning scene them infiltrating in some Republic military base and causing havoc before vanishing. The OT empire was about power, these are about fighting dirty. All the rest of backstory you can explain later.
I don't know, those are just some shitty exaples. The sequels look really pretty but it is really hard to care about the characters or what is going on. Without context the villains don't feel threatening.
And as Ben Kenobi has said, that was the first time we were introduced into the conflict (original trilogy), when we could get behind the fact that The Empire is the ruling force and evil and ruthless and dangerous. That was the status quo at the beginning of the story.
The problem is, that with The First Order, we have moved from the position of the Rebels having won and reestablishing The Republic to open conflict with The Empire Lite (but with a bigger Deathstar and a ton of resources and people). And even after losing the Deathstar they were able to win everything in a matter of... days?
And the fact that they are lead by a psychotic crybaby and a pathetic moron, as shown in Ep 8 does not help their credibility one bit. Their overall incompetence is shown during pretty much every action scene in that movie except for the Leia/Ackbar massacre moment. Other than that, they got their supreme leader murdered, their biggest ship destroyed, failed to kill a couple of ancient wrecks because their interceptors went on a goose chase and let the handful of rebels (or whatever they are supposed to be called now) escape and so on and so on.
After ten years we’re still talking about the Nolan trilogy. Yep. Kinda like lord of the ring.
Ki Swore LOTR, the original Star Wars and The Dark Knight are the cream of the crop for me in terms of trilogies. You can put the new Apes films up there too.
unknowning unknown no cause Harry Potter is like 7 movies
John Wick is also a spectacular trilogy.
unknowning unknown Harry Potter is now where near as great as those examples listed above. Also it’s 8 films not 3
@@Bluefire397 the original Bourne trilogy is also amazing, excluding the later installments...
I'm good with director Krennik because his yelling showed that he was losing control and power.
Also, he wasn't the sole villain in the movie. We still had Tarkin and Vader.
I really loved the "Are we BLIND? DEPLOY THE GARRISON!" Shows how much control he's lost and he's just panicking and screaming.
Haha ^thank you. I loved Krennic. Most badass looking too
Charlie Rodya That was believable. I've been stationed in places where, if things started blowing up, it would be so unexpected that everyone would probably just stare blankly for a moment before realizing what was really happening. To me, that showed just how little anyone at that base was expecting to be attacked. I think it was the sort of duty station we'd call a boondoggle. (I should add that Rogue One is the only Disney Star Wars movie I really thought was well done, so I'm possibly biased.)
Good point
The First Order is a straw man for people the writers don't respect anyway. It comes across as juvenile...because it is.
That's exactly what the Empire was as well. This isn't new to Star Wars.
Not until The Return of the Jedi...you know, the one everyone hates.
i dont think you know what straw man means
It's in the term: a harmless and exaggerated punching bag to lambast or sneer at an ideological opponent. The Empire at it's worst was George Lucas doing this with the American government (he actually stated that the Ewoks were meant to evoke the Viet Cong...because Lucas) while The First Order has directly been declared to be 'white supremacists'....despite the fact that there's many people of color in their ranks.
Another good way to determine a straw man is that there is no logic involved, only emotional outrage.
bloodrunsclear
Not everyone. Return of the Jedi is the only one I like. The rest can burn.
According to Oxford, straw man means: a weak imaginary opponent or argument that is set up in order to be defeated easily
I`ve picked scarier things out of my nose than the first order.
What the hell is in your nose
Rose Tico
A welcome addition to my vocabulary.
The empire feels like the adults in the room, the first order feels like immature internet trolls
Well said.
a kind of millennial emo empire.
First order trooper conversation:
“You hear that Kylo threw Hux against the wall?”
“Yeah, wish I could do that. Hux didn’t even do anything, just want down.”
“Yeah, but at least he didn’t have a temper tantrum.”
“
Fair enough”
_The Force Awakens_ needed more politics... the galaxy should’ve been divided, with some systems preferring the way the Empire ran things, so they support the First Order to that end... maybe the FO has more sinister intentions than just politics, but it would explain how the FO could be so powerful and make the conflict seem real.
Let's be honest, The Force Awakens was just a New Hope remake and The Last Jedi was an Empire and Return of the Jedi remake. They are lazy movies with no originality.
For a moment I was about to get mad at you then I read the whole thing and I'm totally down. They really should have developed the world more and explained exactly how everything works. Like, A New Hope kept a lot of things vague and mysterious (what the clone wars were, who the Jedi were, what happened to them) but explained just enough so people could understand what was happening. This trilogy just kinda dumped us into the setting and left the tie in books to actually explain, which is something that IMO movies should never do because it's basically forcing movie goers to do homework.
The little red haired girl from across the street - yea, I don’t mean anything prequel-like... just one or two scenes to explain the state of the galaxy would’ve gone a long way towards making things feel less contrived, and given the two factions clear motivations, beyond just ‘good guys’ and ‘bad guys.’
I also wish the First Order had started out small, and been built-up into something to rival the Empire as the trilogy went on. maybe even save Starkiller Base for Ep8 or 9? I wasn’t opposed to a third Death Star... the First Order would want to emulate the Empire, and the Death Star was their greatest weapon, so it makes sense to me.
That is too close to the old Imperial Remnant from the old EU, and Disney basically decided they wanted all "new?" ideas and nothing from the EU in the new movies. I put "new" in quotes because they instead decided to do a soft reboot of Episode IV instead.
Honestly that would create a nice thing with Luke too
instead of "I'm sad because Kylo"
Luke would instead go into hiding because the galaxy said it was better off without him
The late Oliver Reed once said to an aspiring actor...
"don't shout, dangerous men never shout, they speak quietly"
Looks like Disney need some basic lessons in how to portray a villain
Dean Waller nice!! Well look at Vader and Palestine... they were quiet but ppl feared them
Well, they're doing what works for them. They need a cheap, simplistic, one dimensional hero and villain. That's why Rey is a flat Mary Sue, and the First Order are incompetent loudmouths. It made them a couple billion dollars the same way "The Fast and Furious" and the "Transformers" series make so much money. Most people don't care about quality or detailed cinema. They just want cool action sequences and beautiful soundtracks. I agree with you 100%, though.
Uh their Animation villains are really good.
@@Thederanged1 Scar, Shan Yu, Jafar, Dr Facilier, Ursula, Maleficient, etc. Only some of them actually not yell until desperation.
@@Thederanged1 I think the ones that made those characters arent in Disney anymore, who knows?
Me: I want Empire
Mom: We have Empire at home
*Empire at home:*
Christ
General face mop and an emo bitch
To be fair at the start of The Force Awakens when Kylo Ren just straight up stops a laser bolt in mid-air and when he's talking to the captured resistance pilot and orders the villagers killed. That part showed promise of Kylo being like Darth Vader. Showing off power: Check, Showing authority: Check, Showing that he is evil and not to be messed with: Check. But after this he goes downhill as a villain. Instead of screaming "TRAITOR!!!!" it could've had Kylo's voice talking "So you return at last betrayer..." then show him walking from behind a tree slowly with his saber. But nope. These are just my thoughts.
I think what they were going for, was that he is dangerous because he loses control. He is unpredictable and passionate. If he was too much like Vader (his Idle) there wouldn't be room for character development. I think Ren would be fine if Hux wasn't such a bumbling idiot. They had an opportunity to make Ren terrifying, not only to the viewer but to the First Order as well. Unfortunately Star Wars is family friendly and "needed" a slapstick Binks role in which unfortunately Hux became. I would have liked them to explore Rens hatred and full envelopment to the darkside.
exactly. They fucked everything up
so if Kylo is not the vilain... who is it now since they killed Snoke like a bitch and make Hux a big joke?
I actually feel bad for Rian, after the mess of a script JJ left in his hands to try and salvage. Episode 7 was supposed to create the setting and establish the villains, both in character and motivation. Instead we got another JJ mystery box.
I actually hated the part when he ordered the villagers to be killed. It felt too much like a random act of evil to remind us that he was the bad guy. The village was no threat to him and he just had them killed for no reason. I am a writer and that is exactly the kind of thing writers have to avoid when they design a villain.
The only First Order leader who actually worked for me was the Commander of the dreadnaught at the start of TLJ. I was actually kinda disappointed when he died because he actually seemed command authority.
Ah, Captain Canady, I loved him. He was gleefully evil and far more menacing than Snoke himself. I was disappointed too when he went so soon.
I was actually impressed when Canady showed up, but then quickly disappointed by how ridiculously designed his ship was. What a waste of a potentially intelligent bad guy.
I totally agree !!
When I told my friend that that captain SHOULD have been the Admiral of the fleet, I was told that thier situation was quite similiar to my working place where top leaders are &/$^*# while we those at the frontline with no authorities cannot call for any shots.
Ya that's so true! That guy should have been command Hux, not this joke of a man.
These SW movies are screwed up. My biggest complaint about the First Order is: Shouldn't they be the rebels? And Leah and her troops: Shouldn't they be part of the galactic government? Does Leah just like rebelling? What are they rebelling against? Slavery maybe? Soooo bad.
The Resistance was a secretly funded military organization branching from the New Republic. The First Order are terrorists trying to regain control of the galaxy. Pretty obvious stuff.
Chase Hildenbrand
they called themselves "rebellion" .. pretty standard stuff
Chase Hildenbrand A terrorist organization has more resources than a government-funded "Resistance". Not sure how that makes sense. Slavery is clearly shown in these movies, is the "Resistance" for or against slavery?
I'm not an expert on the FO's funding. We do know the FO mined Rose's planet for resources. And why would you think the Resistance is for slavery lol?
lol, mined 1 planet vs 10 thousand planets mined by the republic?. and with minning one planet they build a bigger death star?
The Droid Army was more intimidating than the First Order.
The Droid Army!
And I love the Droids!
At least with the droid army you would know your enemy would not need to sleep or eat and is programmed to show no fear or mercy! That when itself is intimidating and terrifying! I respect the CIS in the prequels!
Roger Roger!
I think Droids are one of those instances where you can make a villain both comic relief AND intimidating
Cause when there are only one or two, the basic battle droids incompetence was played for laughs; but even as a kid I understood their threat was in numbers-that they were cheap, easily produced, and disposable
I think part of that was also the design team- the comedy droids were top heavy and had thin, spidery limbs; but all they really needed to do was hold a blaster in the direction of the enemy
Then when the big bulky droids hit the screen I knew shit was gonna go down
*roger Roger intensifies*
Imperitus my God you people try so hard to shit on the sequel trilogy the droid army is nowhere near as intimidating as the first order
I actually liked Hux and his speech in FA and I didnt enjoyed how they made comical relief out of him in Last Jedi
I liked Hux too, too bad him and Phasma were mostly wasted throughout TFA and TLJ.
But he was almost as bad in TFA, shouty, ineffective - a bad parody of what SJWs think right wing/white men are like.
Adam GB He still had room to grow though, TLJ just sapped up all the potential and replaced it with garbage
One of the main reasons I’d say they’re not intimidating is you just can’t take General Hux seriously.
The Illuminati What does Hux even do in these movies?
yes exactly. He is a general not a rookie or private
they start with good introduction of mysterious villains , and end up with just generic villains, especially snoke
+Harris... Snoke is still cool... you just dont know about him much... i know they teased him but you cant diss entire movie because you didnt get answers.... but yes, i agree, its mistake and know why you are pissed
Colin Leary wich undermines his authority. He is no threat.
Kylo and Hux should've had a Megatron and Starscream dynamic. Instead, it's like two Starscreams.
LegoTurtle Brickfilms I hope for that in IX
Holy shit thats actually a really good way of putting it.
So is Phasma Soundwave then?
🤣
"You interrupted my speech!"
Starscream, TFA
Snoke was their Megatron and they got rid of him before even bothering to use him. Now with only his starscreams left to fight amongst themselves like children the First Order's threat level is irrepairably damaged.
That doctor who episode "The Family of Blood" ends with a narration of the bad guy saying (about the doctor) "He never raised his voice" literally to show how intimidating he was to them.
now thats a world class comment
Loved that episode
indeed the doctor was never more intimidating than he was then and he barely talked and when he did it was just on a normal volume. and that still just gives me chills
Reminds me of game of thrones when Joffrey was trying to intimidate Tywin. In that scene we all know who had the true power, Tywin didn’t even remotely raise his voice while Joffrey was yelling up a storm demanding respect like the little child he was .That scene was brilliant and I wish writing like that could be incorporated into the new Star Wars movies. Instead all we get of the directors “genius” is luke drinking blue walrus/cow space milk.
I like the point you make in the first part of your comment. I find that the second part of the comment damages your credibility and weakens your first stance.
As a whole, Star Wars movies could do with better writing and more thought out scenes (where personal interpretation doesn't come filling in the holes).
All of you are missing the basic premise that people are naturally calm when they are in control and naturally frustrated when they are not. Tywin wasnt in control because he was calm, he was calm because he knew was in control, there was literally nothing joffrey could do except yell. The control is the intimidating aspect, not the calmness. A person who you think is in control can fuck you up far more by yelling than calmly asking you. IF tywin yelled, joffrey would have shat his pants twice over, it tywin wasnt in control his calmness wldnt have done shit as evidenced by him getting killed while taking a shit.
Thumbnail says it all...
Muscle Man you know who else's thumbnail says it all? mY MOm!
Who'd be intimidated by a emo MAN child and a soyfaced ginger?
Muscle Man WHERE IS MY SOYYYY
People seem to be suggesting that the first order are 'meant' to be juvenile...but that still highlights Jeremy's point..why should we fear them?
Their instability is exactly why we should fear them, if they lose their grip on the galaxy through poor leadership, it's going to be absolute chaos, every system for itself.
UncleFriis that might've worked if we got more a glimpse of some saner, more calculating people behind the scenes, but as is it's just unbelievable that the First Order could even get off the ground with Hux and Kylo in control. The alt right is only as successful as it is because of cold, Machiavellian types subtly directing the rabble; the angry dweebs in UA-cam comments are their pawns, not the actual leadership.
Exactly.
The portrayal of the First-order is more like modern-day Neo-Nazis.
i.e Emotionally fragile fanboys playing dress-up in their daddy's clothes & fantasizing about the glory days.
The Galexy seems to be in the hands of unstable & emotional fuckwits.
Yeah again, their recklessness is supposed to induce fear, and you have a case for it in the force awakens, but in the last Jedi...what do they ultimately do? Hucks became this slap stick bitch to snoke, and after his death, then becomes a bitch to kylo. At least in force awakens Kylo slays his own father and they destroy a planet, but in last Jedi they do nothing in particular as a result of their instability.
+UncleFriis
"look at the lengths Kylo Ren went to in order to try and turn Rey and kill Luke."
Except they could have still done those things while being cold and calculated. The problem was never what they did, it's how they did it. Darth Vader was very much driven by emotion. The difference is, he didn't make a fool of himself.
Imagine how less intimidating Anton from No Country for Old Men would be if he did the exact same things while screaming and flailing his arms around the entire time. When villains are *constantly* screaming and losing control of their emotions, they seem more predictable and therefore less intimidating. Kylo Ren was only able to kill Snoke because he was calm and managed to shut the fuck up. Compare that with his previous attempt where he got force lightning in his face...
I’m completely skipping “The Rise of Skywalker” I can’t take these Star Wars movies anymore
Could pirate it....but naaah,better things to spend my bandwidth on.
We all need to be watching Mandalorian instead🤔
@@cesarordaz139 Yeah,that's a pretty good series,but damn does it feel rushed with those 30 min run times.A good series needs more time to tell a good story.
30min run times but still wayyyy better plus the Mandalorian has given us baby Yoda🤔
@@cesarordaz139 Look mon,Baby Yoda's cute and all,but it's not why I watch The Mandalorian. I like it's "Spaghetti Western in Space" vibes but the show needs more time to flesh out the characters and the universe.
Krennic’s character is that he is giving everything to the empire but he feels he isn’t getting anything in return. Krennic yelling all the time feels right as he has all his emotions boiling over. The first order command does not have this same scape goat. The first order is the strongest force in the galaxy at the time and has only failed at three things, not having star killer base destroyed, destroying the resistance, and destroying the Jedi. They destroyed the republic! They have establish dominance! They don’t need to command like this because people know they can very well win, yet they still command like a kid trying to act tough.
Also I don't think he should be intimating, not in front of Tarkin or Vader.
This.
This is the biggest reason leaving the theaters that I had a bad feeling about Star Wars. I have no idea how the hell the antagonists are going to work, because there doesn't seem to be anyone fit to lead a giant space empire. I had other gripes, but aside from this and that casino filler my other issues with Disney Star Wars would take a while to put into words.
I think that might actually be the point. Just because you can overthrow Snoke doesn't mean you know how to lead.
Yeah, seems the writers forgot that the antagonist, the villains, need to look dangerous and tough enough for the heroes to look good, for the conflict to look realistic. and yeah, the FO looks like a bunch of immature brats. I'd say Disney is having a "Villain" problem, as in general their latest ones seem to be lacking. but the First Order? they are a caricature, I can't take them seriously, and thus it makes the resistance/rebellion look bad from falling to them so badly *Ryan really shat the bed by making TLJ immediate to TFA
But that's the idea, they're supposed to be a caricature, they weren't supposed to be Empire 2.0, they were just a bunch of old commanders who wanted to make something like the Empire again but made what amounts to a terrorist group instead.
@Asteroid Mike then why should we care about the struggle of our main characters. The First Order is said to be the most threatening force in the Galaxy but there is no way for them to be such a threat as their leaders are incompetent.
We are suppose to believe that just by force and no strategy they will conquer the whole galaxy?
I'd say being able to destroy 5 planets with one shot and still having tons of Star Destroyers around counts as being threatening, at least in the sense of physically and military might. They obviously had some strategy working because they've made it this long without being taken completely out since the Republic didn't think they were a threat, in fact no one did, and they spread their forces out all over the galaxy.
Kylo's intimidation factor is also hurt because two movies in, we've already seen him left laying twice by Rey, lightning-smacked by Snoke, and outright humiliated by Force Projection Luke.
Compare that to Vader, we never saw him truly brought low until the final duel in Return of the Jedi.
What about when Han sent him flying at the end of A New Hope?
I thought the whole point of Kylo Ren’s frustration was that he couldn’t choose a side. But now that he’s chosen a side, he still has these outbursts of anger? That’s disappointing.
Chronic Guardian Yeah but that was in a ship. Could have happened to anyone.
Chronic Guardian Vader paid him back at Cloud City for that transgression. Kylo? Lost to Rey again and got no revenge.
I know....I see no way a person watching 9 can take these people seriously. After seeing what was done to Hux and Kylo Ren, even if they do try and fix/improve it now, it's too late! How can 'anyone' take them as a serious threat watching them, anymore? It's too little too late.
I'll try to be as civil as I can. The First Order simply comes across like a second-rate version of the Galactic Empire. And the Resistance strikes me as a faux version of the Rebel Alliance.
Pretty much everything in the sequel Trilogy is second-rate, the villains, heroes both organizations even the original trilogy heroes have turned into second rate people in the last 30 years inside the Star Wars universe.
It's like a Chinese rip-off the OT. Actually scratch that, there was an ACTUAL Chinese rip-off, and it was better than this.
Thats kind of the point.
The Resistance based on the canon novels, comics was NOT supported or popular. Leia was seen as a war monger & her dad being Darth Vader did not boost her ratings either. 😬
@@DavidLLambertmobile Now that would have made more sense, the biggest issue regarding the threat and legitimacy of organisations in the Sequels is context.
TFA didn't give us any sense of the galaxy, who controlled what and what sort of backing or systems existed.
The only reason I might suspect the New Republic might exist is prior lore, going by the movies I wouldn't be wrong to assume anarchy after the Empire's fall.
*The real problem* is, they are just so inconcistent.
*Hux* was so intimidating, almost rivaling Kylo Ren in the Force Awakens, turned into an complete Joke in TLJ.
*Kylo* on the other hand switches his mood every scene and we still dont even know the reason why..
It also doesnt help that Rey technically beat him *2 times* now... Why should I even be excited for the *3rd time*
2 times? She only fought him once so I can't see how you're getting 2.
She beat back his mind trick and kicked his ass in a saber duel in TFA, kicked his ass again in TLJ but it was almost a draw, then escaped him in the caves during the finale.
Kicked his ass again in TLJ? What scene am I missing here? They didn't fight! If you're referring to them both trying to force pull the saber, that was very clearly a tie. She just happened to wake up first.
Cas ual yeah I would also agree I thought Kylo and Hux were intimidating in some parts in the force awakens. I thought Hux’s speech was very intimidating. You look at that scene and then look at him in TLJ and I swear they are totally two different characters
As a military vet myself...I'll tell you that Hux isn't intimidating at all. His leadership style is irritating, like some boot ass Lt. trying to tell you how to do your job.
That.. that is a very good point.
Krennic in Rogue One falls in the good villain category and aligns with the OT then: Composed, methodical, passionate, sure of himself, ruthless. His few moments of screaming have nothing remotely childish.
Plus, whenever he does start yelling, Darth Vader and Tarkin almost immediately take him down a peg in a calm intimidating manner, so even those moments are presented in a way that still makes the Empire feel intimidating to me.
ZedK49 also he gets punished for screaming in the movie. Losing control of his project and clearly on track for getting demoted.
At least when he screamed when some of the base was destroyed, it made sense.
Well said guys!
The only time when screaming is actually intimidating is when the bad guy is truly psychotic or if the bad guy is usually quiet and well mannered then has a violent outburst.
But even that can be screwed - see Balem Abraxas from Jupiter Ascending. His delivery is one of the funniest things I've ever seen. Eddie Redmayne either cannot for the life of him play a villain, or recognized what a pile of garbage he is in and decided to at least have fun with it.
Terézia Marková no Eddie did an amazing job with the shit writing and was just having fun
AKA the Kingpin in the Daredevil Neflix show.
If Kylo Ren was really powerful and we didn't see him getting humiliated all the time, then the unhinged outbursts wouldn't make him appear as much of a pathetic loser.
In my mind the 2 examples I think of is Mads Mikkelsen from the Hannibal tv series and Heath Ledger as the Joker. Hearing either one of them suddenly cry out in rage would have me terrified cause one is simply a monster behind a veil of humanity while the other is so crazy that he seemingly slaughters just for the fun of it.
When your average UA-camr could somehow write a better movie than a billion dollar company.
They should've had Thrawn as the supreme leader of the First Order, not an unknown force user.
I'm really glad they didn't. They would have ruined Thrawn. At least there's a chance Disney will get its act together before they do a Thrawn movie.
Nah they should have stuck with the emperial remnant and gone with the uzahn vong invasion instead, the war that made the republic and empire join forces to stop a bigger threat.
if it was thrawn in charge, the resistence would be beaten in until 30 minutes. an hour if they break for lunch.
I have no desire to support ep 9 financially
JBD ditto. I'm on a fancott streak, losing the weight and feeling great.
Ill go see it, abrams is the onlyvone who can make ot work.
You'll have waited 2 years by then, hold on 3 more months and rent it for $2 instead if paying to see it 3 times at $10 a pop.
Is the movie really that bad? I feel like this is another overreaction
Its a download for me. Im not giving them a dime while Ruin Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy are still there.
It’s incomprehensible how inept the writers/directors have been for the new Star Wars trilogy. Very tone def. it’s as if a sociopath attempted to write emotions into the script based on a misguided interpretation of reality. “TRAITORRRRR” I would laugh out loud on a battlefield if some dude responded like that after I’d switched sides
KornKrlz2 well....sjws write like that.
A 15 year old fan fiction writer who spent two hours reading "how to write fiction" articles on the internet could do a better job, and I'm not even kidding.
And TR-8R was still one of the most memorable parts of that movie. Let that sink in.
(Like the stormtroopers stopping short when Kylo was having his temper tantrum, it was a detail I liked in humanizing the Imperial cannon fodder... shame they didn't follow up on that.)
General Hux came across as somebody who was bullied in the academy, never really got over it, and grew up to be incredibly whiny and self-pitying, and that utterly ridiculous half-screamed speech was little more than a temper tantrum aimed at his tormentors on a subconscious level.
I just didn't buy him even being in command. He and Kylo both lacked the maturity to do . . . anything really. It was one of many things that broke me out of the movie feeling in Force Awakens.
Fun fact, according to the novels, Hux's daddy was apparently a bigwig in the First Order before him. Which makes it sound a lot like he only got his position due to nepotism.
Long story short; Star Wars has become a parody of itself.
DING DING DING DING DING! Thank you! That's the problem with blockbuster writing nowadays: every movie tries to show how genre aware they are by being deconstructionist- not understanding that if you take a cat apart, you can't expect it to meow the same way if you put it back together. Weird metaphor aside, think how may times recently you've seen a character survive immeasurable odds, and then say, "that shouldn't have worked" to take away all the impacts? Every movie feels like a parody these days.
And I am absolutely disgusted by what it has become.
"Lazer Sword"
Yes and don't forget, a long time ago, it took 3 years between each episode to produce a trilogy. NOW, the NEW Lucasfilm corp rather that taking 6 months to write ( damn, they don't even write, they hire) the plot, they give only 6 weeks!!! Quantity over quality those days! I'm SO tired of reboot movies... lazy hollywood era ( 2010+) that seems to go on and on!!!
Sadly
Absolutely right. I can’t get behind either of the current factions tbh.
Elliott, of the House of Memes The Republic and the Empire are the only factions I’ll ever truly be behind haha
Elliott, of the House of Memes They feel like carbon copies of the Rebels and Empire. That's why I preferred the uniqueness of the Republic and CIS.
I say cut them some slack. They're only the first order. By the 3ed or 4th Order they should have it together.
Like France? Fourth Republic? Fifth Republic? Who knows?
;)
The "First" Galactic Empayah is still waiting for it's worthy follow-up it seems.
ORDER UP!
If they don't have their shit sorted by the eighth order it's probably best they just give up and go back to working at Burger King.
In the words of tyrion: a king that has to say "I am king" is no king. Same thing with SCREAMING
That was Tywin.
Tyrion didn't say that. Tywin said that.
That was Tywin.
@@normiehunter9864 hey, I already said that!
@@Nighlocktheawesome00 SHIT this is 2 months ago XD
This is exactly how I feel about the new star wars movie villains
I think this goes to the notion that the empire is Nazis/fascists and the First Order is the alt-right. The alt-right is not intimidating. And yet, they accomplish some terrible sh*t. They aren't intimidating so they aren't taken seriously, in real life in the case of the alt-right and in the SW universe in the case of the First Order, which is partially how they've gotten where they have. This is possibly a classic example of SW fan can't accept something that isn't what they've already decided a thing should be, thereby missing out on something interesting.
Wretch Gunk I think it's more of a philosophical and tonal parallel than a 1 to 1, you know? Like, is the Sideous Hitler or is he Mussolini or is Vader or is he Goebbels? It's not everything lines up, but the OT is fascism vs democracy. And even though democracy wins, there emerges an echo, a neo fascism that adapts to a modern climate and has an absurd amount of success given that we can all just be like 'we just dealt with that sh*t.' Like a lot of the alt-right has this victim mentality even though they're trying to hurt people. Listen to the Hux speech or Kylo's petulance. They justify their cruelty with an imagined victimhood. That imagined victimhood also makes it hard for people to take the seriously or be frightened by them which in SW makes the Republic ignore them until they have a death star and in America makes us bicker of Bernie and Hillary until Trump is President.
They gave us nothing...a loser, emotional loser, a punchline, and a dud.
Snoke, phasma, kylo, hux. See if you can match them up.
Krennic yelled because he was angry, they took his Death Star away from him. Makes sense to me.
C'mon Disney! This is something to Prequels got right! remember how intimidating and badass Maul and Dooku were?
Even Grievous was more interesting.
Lol, Maul was shit. He appears in like two scenes and all he did on the first is conduct a cheap surprise attack. And then he didn't die apparently because the plot needed him for the novels. Just like Boba Fett, the guy is overrated; he's awesome when fighting though. I should know, I watched Star Wars as an adult on 2015 exactly before I watch TFA, I don't let nostalgia fool me.
@@Qwertzalcoatl Maul had the potential to be a lot cooler. It was a lost opportunity.
And Maul didn't even talk much in the Phantom Menace. That's what I found terrifying about him. He hardly ever opened his mouth, and didn't waste time on expressing his beliefs to others.
@@Qwertzalcoatl I think the fact that Maul didnt say shit made him more interesting. We dont know his origin story. We just know Sidious sent him. He just appeared out of the shadows and started whooping ass. And he didnt do a sneak attack. He drew his lightsaber and challenged the 2 jedi head to head. Even though it was 2 on 1 he didnt care. He was ready to fight like a true warrior.
Orson Krennic is more menacing than the whole first order.
@Red Crusader Also I like that in the beginning he has maximum control but as things unravel for him he loses his control and thus his composure. Tarkin takes away his toy. On anyone youd have an emotional outburst. I also get the feeling that when watching that scene it's what Tarkin wanted him to do anyway. Shows he is ultimately in control and Krennic was never so important now the project Is done.
Krennic was honestly a fantastic character and easily the best villian disney star wars has put out. He's the Underdog Imperial who keeps getting screwed until he's finally broken.
I think the yelling worked for Krenic. He had power but you could tell he was a bad leader who was insecure of his failures and tried to seem tougher by yelling which for the opposite. You could see how his unstable nature showed why Tarkin was so willing to take the Death Star project from him.
Exactly. The yelling is weakness.
This! What he said about Krennic may be the only thing I disagreed with in this video. You explained it really well.
Exactly. Krennic's screaming didn't bother me as much considering he was very much separate from the regular Imperial military hierarchy. So he may have felt safe yelling at Tarkin because Tarkin wasn't exactly his superior.
Regardless, they played the yelling off as showing his own insecurity, so it worked.
The original trilogy is a cinematic marvel
The prequel trilogy is a memefest
The sequel trilogy is just a mess... Kill it...
OP Malfit Do it
OP Malfit dew it
I’ll do a more accurate version of this
Original Trilogy: Cinematic masterpieces
Prequel Trilogy: Imaginative but poorly executed
Sequel Trilogy: Redundant and dull, does everything we don’t want, and doesn’t do everything we do want.
On a more serious point, I wonder if the lack of meme-worthy lines might be a part of the issue. Lots of fans could, with a bit of thought, name a dozen or so lines they remember from the other two trilogies (even if they remember them for the wrong reasons). This one, though? I've got "That's not how the Force works!" and "Don't destroy what you hate, save what you love" and "Everything you just said is wrong", but that's about it. Not great for 4.5 hours of film.
MovingStatues The only meme from the sequels I can actually think of is Swolo, and thats it, while I can think of about 20 from Revenge of the Sith alone.
-This is where the fun begins
- I’ve been looking forward to this
-Twice the pride, double the fall
- DEW IT.
- Another fine addition to my collection
- Not to worry, we’re still flying half a ship
- Another happy landing
- I’m not brave enough for politics
- You’re on this council, but we do not grant you the rank of master
- What about the droid attack on the wookiees?
- Hello there
- General Kenobi
- Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?
- Oh I don’ think so
- So uncivilised
- I am the Senate
- Its treason then
- ‘Sheev Screech’
- No, no, no
- UNLIMITED POWAH!
- Execute Order 66
- Master Skywalker, there are too many of them, what are we going to do?
- I saw a hologram of him killing younglings
- My allegiance is to the republic, to DEMOCRACY!
- Only a Sith deals in absolutes
- Then you are lost
- I have the high ground
And Star War The Third Gathers: Backstroke of the West
They're a joke! The Resistance is equally vacuous. It still baffles me how anyone can take this "trilogy" seriously.
It's almost like it's a work of fiction or something.
PaladinGuy Your comment has less depth than Disney Star Wars, I didn't think that was possible.
More depth then some complaining rando with poor sarcasm skills. Nostalgia Critic wants his shtick back.
PaladinGuy What the fuck are you on mate.
PaladinGuy
It's almost as if films are supposed to be immersive or something. Like you're not supposed to think it's a story told but a story happening.
Kylo Renn: "CRUSH THE RESISTANCE!"
*[The Resistance blows up one of their bases]*
Kylo Renn: "I JUST HATE YOU *SOOOO* MUCH!"
*[Kylo Renn uses the Force to slam Hux against the floor]*
Hux: "Uh!"
First 2 movies summarized.
Resistance, Rock Rock On!
@@dandelyon2796 _RESISTANCE, THEY'RE PROBABLY BATTLING EVIL!_
The original empire had a point. Despite killing the jedi and owning a "death star" they really did create peace across the galaxy.
The New Order was created to be undeniably evil with no redeeming good, they are Nazis. We are suppose to hate the First Order and consider every member evil. . . Even though Finn is proof that this isn't true, I sure wish we had more story on that. To bad Finn's New Order experience is completely wasted, Finn only exists to chase Rey and get kiss by Rose.
Most Germans were brainwashed to like Hitler though.
Actually, there was a moment of camaraderie in The Last Jedi. They cut out a part in an elevator when a Stormtrooper recognised Finn when he was disguised. But, instead of alerting the other Stormtroopers of “Rebel scum”, he asked Finn if he remembered him from training, congratulated him for the “promotion” then slapped his butt like a stereotypical college frat boy before saying goodbye.
John Smith they cut out all the good parts.
Funnily enough, that stormtrooper congratulating Finn was played by none other than Tom Hardy.
sgtfrozty And the two tall Stormtroopers at the left of the screen were British royalty
The treatment of Hux in TLJ was one of my biggest complaints. From the very first scene they made him a joke. He wasn't super intimidating in TFA but he at least seemed to have real authority and felt like the kind of guy that wouldn't hesitate to kill you for challenging him...now he's just a slap stick joke.
This is why I loved the Thrawn Trilogy. Thrawn was the ultimate threat, a worthy successor to Vader and the Emperor, along with C’baoth, whose mental instability made him all the more intimidating. Fantastic series of books, and I couldn’t recommend the Audible performance by Mark Thompson enough. Those were the sequels we needed.
P.S., if anyone wants, Audible does this thing where you can get a free audiobook if it’s your first time using Audible if someone sends it to you, so I’d be happy to send you Heir to the Empire (book 1/3 in the Thrawn Trilogy).
yep, further proof that Legends is the better Star Wars continuity
Skullcrusher430 Don’t get me wrong; there’s some BAD legends content. But, yes, I vastly prefer the Thrawn Trilogy to the Sequel Trilogy.
Literally just ordered the first book of the trilogy, can’t wait to start it
Yes!! Thrawn was a real villain to be feared, just listened to the Heir of the Empire audio book w/Mark Thomson, so good, this should have been what this new trilogy was based on! Kylo and Hux are terribly inept villains, epsecially on their own, bumbling man babies..
“The first order comes off as organized as a monkey trying to f*** a football” classic 😂
I seriously loled. I had not heard this saying anywhere outside of my family :)
The First Order isn't intimidating, just annoying
The Resistance has a terrible connection with their leaders and troops+officers
Both are terrible. Also I honesty liked Snoke, Kylo and even Hux in TFA but TLJ turned them into a joke, literally. JJ was supposed to continue what he stared (which was alright to begin with), now has to clean up a massive pile of trash in *1 Movie*
Yeah TFA was on TV the other day and I watched it, and though "Oh yeah I actually did like this film". After TLJ I just had so much hate for the sequel trilogy, but the thing is I just REALLY hate TLJ. And a big part of it was it put so little thought into all of it's plot points. It also seemingly misunderstands that the FO is ruling the galaxy at the end of TFA, which they aren't. The opening line of TLJ is "The FO Reigns" and my question is reigns over what? TLJ takes place 10 minutes after TFA, did they take over the entire galaxy in those 10 minutes? In TLJ they explicitly state they are focusing all of their forces to fight and track down the resistance, so the fleets you see in TLJ is probably a large extent of the entire FO fleet.
KingCodester111 - yep. And that is a direct result of Rian Johnson’s shit on the entire plot and characters established in Ep7 just for the sake of trying to be “different” and “subversive”. What’s the point of Ep9 now?
megatom5 - all good points. And where the hell did all the Resistance go between ep 7 and 8? We literally had like a handful of people in a few spaceships.
GHN1013 pretty sure they all died
Honestly, I think there's a good chance that they just make two more movies instead of one.
Ironic... Compared to the Empire, the First Order has less structure, or order.
Nick Clark “Ironic, he could save others from dying, but not himself”
Nick Clark -- And that is why it will fall.
First order of business, there is no order.
Nick Clark And they came second, not "first".
It's less the First Order, more the First Debacle.
The First Order in the Force Awakens had some legit intimidating factor to them, even ignoring Starkiller base. They would not hesitate to burn a village or bomb a marketplace just to get what they wanted.
The Last Jedi really made them seem inept in the extreme. They had so much hardware that was massive and utterly useless. One of the reasons I found the movie so irritating.
Yeah TLJ amped up the ineptitude to 11 and removed any threat the First Order had.
They definitely come across as more intimidating as an organization in Force Awakens than Last Jedi. Though if I had to come up with an excuse, I would probably say that it is mostly due to them not operating at full capacity after the destruction of Starkiller Base and the loss of much of their personnel.
Without Starkiller Base, they arn't worth worrying about to the rest of the galaxy.
It was the fuel!!! The F$@% fuel!!! What the hell 😂 why? Objects in motion stay in motion unless acted by an outside force Rain Johnson!
Rian, in his creative brilliance, decided to make the greatest hero in cinematic history into a suicidal coward who nearly murdered his nephew while he slept. Luke was dark and depressed, and willing to let his friends die while he waits to die. In order to balance this darkness, Rian had to lighten up TFO and make them more family friendly!
Hux: "I ree, therefore I ham."