Though I mostly agree, I think Tails in a mech still isn't using the character to his potential. Tails is a tech guy that's always working on gadgets to make things more efficient. With this in mind, I feel like a Ratchet and Clank playstyle would work better. There would still be the shooting, but with more diverse gadget and access to Tails' agility, speed and flight.
How is it not? Tails has always used technology throughout the series up to this point, having rebuilt the Tornado in the classic games, having his own workshop in Adventure, the various gadgets in Tails Adventure and now building his own mechs. And to have Tails use his tech for good and contrasting and even rivaling Eggman in this game, who uses it for evil, only serves to show how awesome Tails really is. A completely different play style for him would be severely out of place in this game given that you, don't forget, also control Eggman using a mech.
Sonic adventure 2 focused a lot on duality. From the logo, to the story, to the advertising, to the gameplay. Sega wanted Eggman to be playable and mech suits fit him better than a ratchet and clank gameplay so for a sense of duality, they made tails in a mech suit so for the context of this game, I think it's alright. Think of it this way Rouge is a treasure hunter who is trying to collect as many jewels as possible and Knuckles is trying to protect the master emerald from being stolen from him Sonic and Shadow are probably the most prominent example of this. not only have highly contrasting personalities but in the context of this game's time period we didn't know for sure if Shadow was the true ultimate life form. For all we knew it could have been Shadow was just a being created by Gerald in his attempt to destroy humanity with false memories from Mariah but Sonic being the original. This got debunked later but at the time it seemed reasonable. Shadow even said at the final boss "Sonic, I think I figured out what the ultimate life form is, It might be you." Then there's Tails and Eggman. Both are highly confident in their abilities but Tails was using his Knowledge for good and Eggman for bad.
Loved this video, I've always thought this but you finally managed to put into words how SA2's stages really aren't more linear than SA1. They're just exactly what you said - more streamlined. I'm not the #1 SA2 fan in the world, but still I do always enjoy hearing people talk about their opinions on this game, positive or negative.
@@effietime37 Yeah sure man however most people hating on Sonic adventure 2 often present their opinions as a fact without backing them up with in depth arguments to me that is very annoying although i definitely recognise that i am at fault on my previous comment since the guy did mention it's his opinion my sincere apology for sounding like a crap bucket
14:34 i personally think the radar was nerfed in order to make it less of a priority than the previous game you see in previous sonic adventure radar was the only thing that could help you get the emeralds meaning the whole gameplay loop boiled down to hovering around aimlessly till it blinks and don't even get me started on hint balls however in sa 2 the hint system is much more fleshed out and pieces are hidden in very specific locations which requires great attention from player like there is a location in aquatic mine with a traingulated skull formation where emerald is hidden very often and there is only one such formation in the entire level not to mention the hints also progressively get more generous with each emerald having 3 of them thus often emphasising on following a particular direction and lastly comes the radar which pin points that said location so i feel that nerfed radar being a problem is just psychological because even with the sa 1 radar players had to hunt for those locations
Honestly, with the way treasure hunting stages are structured, SA1's radar would be more distracting than helpful. It's much more time efficient to focus on one emearld at a time, memorizing the location with just 1 hint, than to just wander aimlessly until the radar blinks. That structure is more luck based because a faster time is moreso based on the emeralds spawning close enough to where the radar is almost always detecting more than 1. Whereas in SA2, the more locations you memorize based on 1 hint, the faster on average you'll be able to complete the stage regardless of where they spawn. Even on casual runs, I rarely ever get lower than a B rank.
As a kid I refused to use hints during levels, mainly cause most of the time they didn’t help me at all but also because I kind of thought it was cheating
I think the change to the emerald radar came in conjunction to the change in level design. Having all of the shards available was necessary in SA1 due to the fact that almost every level was obviously designed around Sonic first, with other characters plunked in later. This results in almost all of Knuckles levels in SA1 being poorly fit for his style of movement and being able to easily ping every shard is pretty much an anti-frustration feature. Because SA2's levels are all individually designed for each character, Knuckles and Rouge both have levels that largely take advantage of their movement options and are also built around landmarks that capitalize on the improved hint system (which could only really work with the one-emerald-at-a-time system). And regarding the hint system, the A rank scores are designs so that you can use a monitor once on each shard and still A rank the stage. This is part of the overall methodology for how to reward each character an A-rank-- with the hedgehogs you need to focus on speed and execution, with the mechs you need to focus on maximizing your stargeting multiplier, and with the treasure hunters you're rewarded for familiarizing yourself with the level layout and navigation. I know why it can frustrate people (having to circle back to where you just were because the shard is buried or in an enemy can feel like busywork) and there are certainly more elegant solutions in hindsight, but for what it was doing I think it works.
RIP the adventure 1 hub worlds, from my understanding they were a leftover remnant from whenever SA1 was a sonic themed RPG that had sonic and knuckles as the main characters
I actually quite enjoy Knuckles and Rouge's treasure hunting stages (save for Mad Space), and I don't normally have much trouble getting As and Bs in them... but, yeah, the radar being nerfed was kind of dumb on Sonic Team's part. Totally agree though. Sonic Adventure 2 is amazing, and is also my favorite. Frontiers is perhaps the first time in a long time I felt the series came close, but it hasn't quite it that zenith SA2 has.
Adventure 2 is definitely my favorite sonic game despite the flaws. I actually really enjoy the mech and treasure hunting stages, definitely not as bad as some people let on.
I never understood why people hated the adventure games or why they became controversial down the line. I have no nostalgia for these games, I was born in the 2000s so I mostly grew up with an entirely different form of sonic, and yet these games are so incredible to me. They aren’t perfect but Adventure 1 and Adventure 2 set the perfect blueprints for what the ideal 3d sonic game should be like. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Adventure style of gameplay, and although I did not like the idea of multiple gameplay styles at first, (I just wanted to be sonic) playing sonic 06 made me realize that I actually don’t hate the idea of Multiple characters in a sonic game; in fact I would hope for there to be multiple characters to play as. I feel like the way Sonic 06 handled multiple characters compared to Adventure 1 and 2 (or at least the idea that 06 had with multiple characters) was much more enjoyable for me personally, and overall a really good compromise between those who just wanted to play as Sonic and those who wanted more characters. There were still more ways to innovate upon the Adventure style of gameplay and It’s such a shame that we would never get a chance to see what a modern Adventure game could feel like until Project 06 came out. It stings even more that Sonic Team seemed to improve upon the Multiple character philosophy in sonic games with 06, only for the next game Sonic Unleashed to force a completely different gameplay style onto players once again. They literally regressed
To be fair, 06 along with previous games such as sa2, also forced completely different gameplay styles onto players. Telekinesis and vehicle gameplay stray just as much from Sonic gameplay as something like the werehog, treasure hunting or mech shooting.
@@snakey888 That's totally valid. For me personally, although flawed, I really liked the adventure 1 approach, where I pick a character and I know what I am getting out of that playthrough, rather than being randomly switched every level like in Adventure 2. Also with 06, Project 06 only lets you do trail select (Which is how I usually play the adventure games anyway unless I am specifically feeling like replaying the story) so I feel like I have a lot of freedom with picking and choosing what I want to do when I feel like it. All of the characters in project 06 are so freaking fun to play as too, so that helps a ton as well
@spontman Bro SA2 Sonic is MAD slippery. The "control" is all over the place Lol. I swear this game overrated imo Generations is fun, perfecting the boost and movement physics. Frontiers personally puts me in the mind of Sonic, immersing me in the world around him. You have complete control of speed, physics, and you get drop dash which is a nice touch.
@@carinaslima To each their own. The only things I like from SA2 are the story, City Escape, Green Forest, Metal Harbor, and some of the music. Aside from that, it's just an overrated over glorified nostalgia trip. Gen is incredible and is even better in SXSGen, with its clean 4k 60 fps upscale. Frontiers is just amazing for the reasons I mentioned in my previous comment.
I don’t like the base game. I mean it’s awesome on modding It’s not like i use heavy game altering mods either But this game is beloved by many so I don’t feel the need to tear it down
The Hunting levels reward skill like the other gameplay styles do. The Emerald shards/Chaos Emeralds/Keys are always in the same set locations. Instead, it's WHICH locations that are different. It's very easy and possible to collect the trinkets without hints, and, even then, it's not using hints themselves that determine a rank, but the time it takes for you to find the trinkets. I have been able to A-rank Hunting stages while still using hints. The Hunting is actually very rewarding and fun to play once you, well, get good.
@@kevin_kevinson Funny that you mention that, because I've seen speedrunners blaze through these levels like they were nothing. The speedrunners who complained must've sucked, making them double losers.
@@KingdomHeartsBrawler lol. I love the knuckles levels. Never understood the hate. It's always the small minority of complainers that get what they want. While the normal people sit by and purchase the next game to find out that everything you once loved is gone XD
Good review. I hope some day we reach Sonic Unleashed analysis because I really think that this is one of the best 3d games in Sonic series (Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 also in this list).
I honestly agree but, I swear this game loves dragging the other characters into your face, not saying that I'd enjoy having sonic only, but there's times when I want to play as the character for a refresher from the slow paced nature of the other characters. Like after pumpkin hill a tails level, and after that ANOTHER KNUCKLES LEVEL?!?!
I mean, as somebody who had fully completed the Spyro original trilogy when I got Adventure 2, the hunting stages are not that bad. You move really fast after all.
About Treasure Hunting: Using too many hints meaning you lose on A rank is fantastic for replayability, y'all just need to drop the facade that SA1's Emerald Hunting was better lol. Knuckles/Rouge are INCREDIBLY FAST on the ground, walls and air. You can cover the whole stages very quickly while scanning for Emeralds using the Radar and you can still use one or two hints if you're fast enough, plus you can go for Golden Beetles or Ring Boxes. The only exceptions I will give you are Death Chamber and Egg Quarters, you need to make a decision of what color sector to visit and hope you made the right call. And Mad Space is obviously awkward because of the weird gravity forces of the planets plus the opposite hints but you can still go very fast. It's satisfying to think on a route for yourself and adapt to new routes depending on Emerald location and the Hints you decide to get. Can you get screwed over and lose on A rank due to RNG? Yes. Would that next try for A rank take you more than 2 minutes? No.
Divided game nowadays but I don't care, this is my favorite Sonic game too. I just love most of the levels, yes even the mech and treasure hunting despite their flaws, and I especially love the Sonic/Shadow stages. Not only that, it has an ambitious great story and there's tons of side content to do.
As a long time Sonic fan, and having respect for its 2D origins, Adventure-era was where the series was at its best. With Sonic Frontiers, it opened a new road for Sonic. Take a more mature approach to storytelling, without it being too obnoxiosly serious as 06 with modern mechanics and the adventure handling, and damn. Would be a nice game moving on.
I never achieved my dream of creating a Devil Chao but I did manage to grind my way to the top and create an all S rank that crushed in every competition.
Shame this game hasn’t aged well for me. The environments, movements, gameplay, it’s all boring or stale. Thankfully, that’s what’s great about sonic, it has variety so if you don’t like the first few games, the others will be different
yeah i love this game but i'd put sa1/the other non dark age 3d games over this as knuckles is a step backwards/forced into the story outside the ending,the sonic stages are linear,eggman should've been a ratchet and clank style with the machines he made in the classic era or an tails have option to leave the mech and it's story isn't the magnum opus of sonic writing as it has dumb moments or contrivances to the gameplay like the knuckles space levels being from him idiotically putting the shards in the shuttle,amy being useless outside a hokey speech and tails being a weak retread of sa1 that make the other games closer to actually peak.
15:19 that is not true, using hints does not make you lose the A Rank it’s about how Fast you clear the Stage not on how many Hints you used. A UA-cam by the Name of ExoparadiGamer explained in his Review of SA2 that he once cleared the Death chamber stage Using 3 Hints and still got the A Rank so what you just said there is simply not true at all you just didn’t clear the stage fast enough. The Ranking is About speed.
I agree. Bought Sonic Adventure 2 before the first Sonic Adventure and felt it was much more complete, challenging but also diverse (playing all those characters through the game) and it was less story oriented (never bother as I only enjoy the gameplay 😅). The music was also much better. So stepping from part 2 to 1 felt like going backwards or stepping down. But they’re both worth playing through.
To be fair you never play 2 Consecutive Treasure Hunting stages, although Death Chamber, Meteor Herd, Security Hall, & Mad Space have boss fights after them where you are still playing as Knuckles or Rouge. As for the upgrade system it's actually easier than you think in Adventure 2, although a couple stages are trolls when it comes to them. Still the system of 1 Level Up item per Stage excluding Kart Stages, Cannon's Core, Chao World, & Green Hill makes things easier to keep track of. As for Treasure Hunting you do realize that when you get better you'll use less hints & if you can get the objects you are searching for quickly with a single hint each you still get good scores enough for A Ranks. The 2nd of your objectives is satisfied by the Treasure Hunting. You ignored other aspects of the game though like 2P Battle Mode, Chao, & Kart Stuff.
It’s more consistent than Adventure 1. The story is better. Gameplay for the most part is better. Don’t forget the amount of people working on the game were 150, Adventure 1 had 300. Sonic Adventure 2 was made in one year when Adventure 1 was made in three. Imagine if the game had the same coverage as Adventure 1.
Y'know, I never really thought about it until now, but what were they thinking with the Eclipse Cannon? I get why having a weapon that can blow up entire planets would be advantageous to the Empire in Star Wars, because THEY HAVE OTHER PLANETS THEY CAN GO TO if one gets destroyed. But with Sonic, there's just Earth, or Mobius, or whatever. Why would you need a weapon that can blow up a planet if you live on the only planet worth blowing up? Edit: ok so I just went and checked and apparently the reason they built it was to defend the planet from the Black Arms, by destroying the "Black Comet" which was an actual comet that the Black Arms modified and rode around in. I never played Shadow the Hedgehog where all of this was explained, but it's weird that we had to wait until that game to find out why something so important to the plot of SA2 existed in the first place. So basically the writers had to retcon in a reason why the Eclipse Cannon existed, so they invented an enemy threatening enough to require the creation of a world-ending laser, but stupid enough to ride around in a big dumb rock instead of assembling, like, a fleet of spaceships or something. Basically the Black Arms picked a fight with a technologically superior species and got their asses kicked like a bunch of scrubs the way they were always destined to. This series has a real problem with introducing villains that come across as total morons if you think about their plans for even five seconds.
I mean, Professor Gerald was the one who made the Eclipse Cannon in the first place, and his whole plan was to wipe out all of humanity before GUN would inevitably execute him. As for what Eggman himself was thinking... couldn't tell ya lol. I'd say he was just bluffing, but the end of the Hero campaign seems to suggest that he would've actually used it had Sonic not acted in time so... IDK. Edit: Just read your edit, and I guess I'm wrong about that first part. So I guess your point stands lol
Slightly unrelated, but I just realized that the Eclipse Cannon would've theoretically released Dark Gaia had Eggman's plan succeeded. That'd make for an interesting alternate-universe scenario!
Yeah, but Gerald just added the "destroy Earth" protocol to a weapon that GUN were already building for other purposes. The thing is, we find out in Shadow The Hedgehog what those "other purposes" are, but until then we just have this enormous weapon that can blow up half the moon but no evident reason for it to exist. Like, the explanation they came up with (i.e., that it was created specifically to fight an alien threat) makes sense since you'd literally have to have an off-world threat to point that kind of weapon at, but until Shadow the Hedgehog came out it just seemed like GUN had designed a weapon it could basically never use unless it wanted to wipe out half a continent. I suppose it was inevitable that GUN's solution to the Black Arms problem was, well, a big gun, but considering the 24-hour recharge period imagine how hilariously screwed Earth would be if the aliens had brought TWO ships Edit: just read your comment about Dark Gaia. Very interesting! And what would Iblis have to say about any of this?
I wish we lived in a world where the Adventure games aren’t looked upon nearly as fondly. Because every game after it was so much better. Ah, what a world.
I feel like they could have easily fixed the radar issue by improving it through upgrades over the course of the game. That way it remains properly nerfed for those smaller stages but increases in effectiveness towards the end of the game with larger stages. You could argue that it makes the initial difficulty balance of the earlier stages moot, but I'd say it encourages replayability and is no different from being able to bring in other upgrades from later parts of the game.
Have knukles radar detect the radar for three shards wouldnt make sense considering the gameplay for this game is based on the hint and grtting the A ranks for the treasure hunting is all about a balance between getting hints and collrcting rings defeating enemies to compensate for that. The hints arent just bad.
Great video, but people really overplay the hints in SA2. I can use multiple and still get an A rank without speed running, and I haven't played these levels that many times.
15:14 actually you can still pretty much get A rank while still using at least 4 to 5 hints provided you do it in minimal time only thing that using hints would affect is score you get for each emerald
I feel like the only reason the 2012 hd version of the game is E 10+ is because in the lyrics to Death Chamber Sonic and Knuckles are having a conversation, and at some point Sonic says, “You’re damn right, Knuckles.” Probably the only time Sonic has (technically) said a swear word besides in ShTH.
To be honest, I can't really blame anyone for not liking the way character switching is handled in this and I say that as someone who used to really hate playing as the other characters but now really likes playing as them. I just think anytime a game forces you to play as someone you might not want to, you run the risk of putting people off and I think the first games solution to characters was the best they've ever had since it just let you play as a much of a character as you wanted with no breaks and it's part of the reason why, for a long time, I held the first game in better regard than this one. Otherwise, i'm in agreement with almost everything else. Playing this game again last year for the first time in a long time was a rollercoaster of emotions for me but I think I can confidently say this is probably my favorite Sonic game if not my favorite platformer.
While I personally prefer SA1, I've definitely always enjoyed SA2 as a worthy successor and another one of the best games in the series. You make a compelling argument that it improves on the controls, particularly integrating the light-speed dash and expanding its gameplay potential, but I do think you're splitting hairs on semantics arguing that a more narrow and streamlined level design isn't more linear... If you move around less in an open space, you're literally moving in a more linear manner. This, of course, isn't a bad thing, I don't consider it that big of a departure from the original and the level design is still generally excellent regardless. This duology is one of my all-time favourites and I always love hearing people reminisce on these games and talk about what they love about them. This video was very enjoyable. As controversial as they may be, the fact that we're still talking about them, and that so many of us feel compelled to defend their honor after all these years says a lot about the impact they had and how special they are to many of us.
@@alexgomez6723 the directors have been bringing up going back to the adventure series. Plus the ending of 06 is canon which means characters don’t even remember that story it was kind of a separate timeline
i think the treasure hunting are an improvement than how they were in sa1 even with the nerfed radar the radar doesnt really bother me like other people but that may be just because ive played this game a shit ton and know how to explore knuckles and rouges levels thoroughly
Even as someone who is bothered by the radar, it is still a massive improvement. The OST has cool vibes, the leveldesign is much better and the characters are much more fun to play compared to silly SA1 knux who required a button combo to dig.
Yeah, the radar nerf sucks, but I understand why they did it. Some of the stages could be over in seconds if you could track all three at a time, so they wanted to make you explore the stages so it didn't seem insubstantial. However, they took the easiest solution, not the best one. If treasure hunting ever returns, they should instead just add some logic that makes it so that emeralds will always be placed with sufficient distance between each other, so that the player is still encouraged to explore the stage, but they are also afforded the freedom of tracking each piece in whatever order they choose. I actually find that I enjoy some of the treasure hunting stages *more* than some of the speed stages. Especially when playing the optional extra missions - the non-linear nature of the hunting levels means that getting a certain number of rings, finding the lost chao and playing hard mode all offer unique experiences. Conversely, the linearity of the speed stages means that all of those objectives boil down to "play the level", "play part of the level ", and "play the level with added bullshit enemy placement."
@@lpfan4491 level design is definitely an improvement yeah sa1s TH level design was fine since sonics stages so much open space that it was reasonable to be able to put knuckles gameplay in there but sa2 having level design specifically for TH definitely made them better
@@alfiehicks1 well no the speed stages still have the 100 rings anf lost chao missions but replaying treasure hunting stages could be more interesting because of the randomized emerald placements so maybe
@Subb Yeah, I know the speed stages still have those missions. What I'm saying is that basically all of them are achieved in a normal run of the level anyway. Collecting 100 rings is basically required to get an A-rank in the regular level anyway, as is completing the level in under 5 minutes. Finding the Lost Chao amounts to playing the level normally until you reach the Mystic Melody shrine - the only extra mission that makes a difference in the speed stages is the Hard Mode mission, and even that is usually just full of cheap enemy placements that fuck with your muscle memory - not something I would voluntarily replay after getting the A-rank. In a hypothetical remake, I'd want each gameplay style to have their own set of objectives tailored to each experience. Maybe even stage-specific challenges, like getting all of the ramp jumps in City Escape, getting to the top section of the rocket in Metal Harbour, etc. As it stands, the extra missions are just a bit redundant for the mech and speed stages.
I am glad at least someone is talking positive about the game with valid points unlike many people who just blindly hate the game without ever explaining in depth their arguments
I think you're wrong about the boss fights. You don't have to wait to hit them again for the most part. For Big foot/Hot shot, you can use the boxes to hit the boss while it's still flying around in the air, or the bounce bracelet if you return to the boss fight later. For Egg Golem, you can super bounce to avoid having to get behind him, you can also use the bounce bracelet when the Golem does that headbutt attack to reach the weak point. You can also land on his arm when he does that attack and spin dash on him to reach the weak point too. Rouge's boss fight against the Flying Dog requires no waiting, you just climb on the wall, jump off, hit the cockpit and repeat. King Boom Boo is an annoying fight but if you're fast enough you can hit him 4 times to kill him in one cycle. Biolizard is really the only boss that I would categorize as a "hit once and wait for the weak point to open up" boss but it's a good challenging boss that requires you to time your jumps/somersaults properly to not get hit and even that fight has a speedrun trick that let's you hit him without waiting around for him to be vulnerable that I'm not able to do
i really wanted to love sa2 like i loved sa1, but the treasure hunting stages and the mech stages along with their 5 missions, was so painful to get done, also the fact there is no semi open world "adventure fields" like sa1, which made it feel like way less of an "adventure", the only fun parts about sa2 is the speed stages and chao garden, everything else feels like homework...
@@kevin_kevinson no need to be an asshole, i like unleashed and sa2 for what the fun parts of the games have to offer (for sa2 the speed stages and chao garden, and for unleashed the day stages) if you don't like unleashed then good for you, this video wasn't about unleashed.
I agree completely. However, you need to be careful. If you write something negative about SA2, you are at risk of being targeted by Sonic fans. Looks like you got lucky this time.
Here to quickly post my own thoughts and ideas. Not very focused, just stuff I was thinking about. Tails in a mech was a great choice, duality with Eggman and all that, but I still would have liked a few sections or a few levels where you could play as Tails outside the mech, I'd imagine more vertical levels which resemble speed stages but more focused on vertical movement, climbing or descending, if that makes sense. And perhaps a single level playing in the jet form of the mech too, to make use of Talis's separate vehicle forms and perhaps the same with Eggman. About your suggestion about Shadow getting the ability to bounce like Sonic, not the worst idea but I have my own. Instead of copying Sonic's moveset I'd prefer a new ability that utilizes Shadow's hover boots. Allowing a higher jump to reach higher locations like the bounce does for Sonic, perhaps a short hover to slow decent or a double jump. It would fit shadow much more in my opinion.
@ the base game is ok in my opinion. The controls aren’t super tight, the thok should be replaced with a homing attack. and the springs are very finicky. SA1 translates sonic in 3d a lot better with the gameplay and controls alone - a better 3d sonic game.
The hints will downgrade your rank is not ture. The Teasure hunting stages are all about speed and how fast you get them. You can still use a good amount of hints but also being quick enough to finish the stage. Using a lot of hints while taking a lot of time will decrease your ranking.
I get why people like SA2, just personally I find the game extremely frustrating (mostly in the treasure hunting and mech stages). Granted I haven’t played a lot of the 3D games (only sa1&2, unleashed, generations, colors, forces, & frontiers) so that might be a factor. Overall yeah it’s fun especially hard mode stages but I just find I loose my patience with this game.
Honestly when it comes to Sonic Adventure 1 or 2 it's really difficult for me to say which is best definitively. On the surface it's clear they're cut from the same cloth, but those that know the games well enough can find more differences, like how Adventure 1's level design is mostly more open ended, while SA2's is more linear and filled with more spectacle. Like I wouldn't call the changes from SA2 bad even for some one who greatly enjoys SA1. They're just different enough that it doesn't feel like the exact game copied and pasted from SA1 while still be familiar enough to be recognized as a sequel yet has it's own identity. They both just feel like they have their own distinct flavors whether than a clear better take. Want a more open ended feel SA1's got that, want a more 'focused' experience with half the game-play styles but a more spectacle driven presentation SA2 would cover that.
people always like to say sa1&sa2 are only the best bc of nostalgia and that always annoys me because they’re genuinely good games? or ppl say they don’t hold up to todays standard and have aged. of course they’ve aged! they were made forever ago 💀 games back then had a completely different standard than games of today(graphics, performance wise, tech limits of hardware of time) i still replay them. and the stories were the best imo. not too cheesy and not inappropriately serious. i liked the balance especially for these being the first real step into 3d sonic. i still like listening to and will always watch reviews of these positive or negative. granted sa1 is my overall favorite and what’s funny is i played sa2 before sa1 (had these on gc not dreamcast and got sa2 first). i just liked running around the open world, interacting with the NPCs and seeing the other characters you could play in the world move around and have diff dialogue depending where you were at in the game.
Great video, very entertaining and enjoyable, thank you optimus. Sa2 is a great game undoubtedly. Was curious if u were gonna talk about the ost. I haven't played a lot of sonic games but heros had a good collection for me. Heros next?
I think that the intent behind most of the game’s jank is inherent difficulty increase. For example, mapping the abilities to one button is clearing intentional as there are obstacles which take advantage of this idea and kill the player if they mindlessly spam the B button. Mindless playing in SA2 will get you a low rank if not flat out killed and I like it. You can’t just waltz in like newer sonic games and speed through. There’s a science and thought process behind every play style and mastering it opens a phenomenal level of replayability. The speedrunning community have had the most fun with this imo. SA2 takes skill and practice, but when you master a treasure hunting map, or are able to speed through a sonic stage while getting the points for an A rank, it hits different.
There is clearly meant to be a learning curve for Sonic Adventure 2, but I sincerely doubt that they purposefully made certain mechanics janky for that reason. If that was the case, it wouldn't be very good game design. I'm almost positive that they mapped all of the specials to the same button to keep the controls simple like the Genesis games did. But when there's so many moves with extremely disparate purposes, that's when problems arise. Still, intentional or not, it is something you can learn to avoid with experience like you said.
Good video! I don't personally agree, I think that Sonic Unleashed was the best 3D Sonic, but Sonic Adventure 2 is a respectable option. It is my second favorite after all.
@@spontman @Spontman That might be the only example in SA2 to go with though, which is problematic, no? Sonic Adventure levels may be linear, but Sonic Adventure 2's Sonic stages are even more linear. Casinopolis and Ice Cap are two more stages in SA1 that have legitimate branching variety upon replay, with Ice Cap giving opportunity to even sequence break in multiple places. Sonic Adventure 2 Sonic stages are more polished and 'streamlined', but they are largely the same experience every time you play them, and they are certainly more linear on average in terms of what you can actually do in the levels.
@@AwijoshSun It's ONE example. Every speed level in SA2 has multiple routes, even the most basic ones like City Escape and Metal Harbor. I've replayed SA1 even more than I have SA2, and if anything I'd argue the first game's levels are on average more basic than the sequel's.
@@spontman Casinopolis has an entire alternate stage embedded into it, which in itself has multiple routes. The 'alternate paths' in most Sonic/Shadow stages in SA2 are mostly just briefly divergent shortcuts. There are a lot of these in SA1, but there are also moments of legitimate variety on top of it, and this probably due to the levels being shared with other characters. You can walk around and explore in At Dawn if you want, and even if you don't, there are many ways to cut through that area as Sonic despite how small it is. Falling off of the wall run in Speed Highway and going that way feels like an entirely different area, unlike stages like Radical Highway, which have straightforward 'lower areas' if you fail at the platforming, which amount to just taking the slower way across. The alternate paths in Final Rush really feel like different branching routes, and I don't feel that in any other Speed stage in SA2.
@@AwijoshSun I don't entirely disagree with this, but I don't think it's a reason to call SA2's levels "more linear". "Compact" might be a better term. How different the routes look and feel from each other can be attributed to how spaced out they are, rather than the core design of the levels. At least that's how I see it.
I enjoyed both Adventure videos, although I unfortunately don't agree on a few points on SA2. I don't know if I'd call the pacing better, since the shifting play styles can prove as problematic if you don't like them as much. I shouldn't feel exasperated or discouraged to find out that the next stage is something I've enjoyed less and less, and not the thing that I liked. In the first game, each style was at least quarantined to it's own story, so you can deal with it on your own terms (or not at all if you dislike it that much). In SA2 you're forced to in order to make progress, and sometimes it feels like a slog. As for Tails'/Eggman, you seem to gloss over how clunky those mechs are; they feel awful to control, especially compared to Gamma, and there are genuinely infuriating moments where the physics cause problems with platforming of all things (like how they occasionally fall like a brick if you barely miss the edge of a platform). It's even worse before you get the hover upgrade. The only one I can say I legitimately enjoyed was Cosmic Wall, because of the floaty space physics and gimmicks.
@@AkameGaKillfan777 By saying 'barely' with no other detail, you acknowledge that there were issues; there is a possibility that you are downplaying them, or diminishing the problems other people had.
agreed. i completed my first ever playthroughs of sa1 and sa2 about a month ago (both modded just to make game look better) and i played sa1 before sa2 (for obvious reasons). i was hyping myself up for sa2 expecting it to feel somehow better than sa1 did, but it honestly felt worse to me. the mechs are way too slow and dont seem to lock on nearly as consistently as gamma did so you can get combos for a-ranks, probably due to the turning delay. for me the treasure hunting stages were pretty alright even with the different radar but fuck that rouge stage with all the planets, forgot what it was called. speed stages were probably the best part of the game for me, though the nerf to spindash jumping (and the nerf to spindash in general) made them feel slower than sa1. i understand why people like sa2 gameplay over sa1, just personally i found sa1 to be a smoother and more enjoyable experience even with all the jank
I like this game but personally I can’t agree with it being the best, at least gameplay wise. It’s certainly fun, definitely a good game and one I want to see used as a base for future games to work on and improve from like its predecessor, but again other 3D games edge it out to me, even though there are things I believe this game is best at (honestly I believe a good handful of 3D sonic games are the best at doing at least a few things right). I want to see what more can be done with the adventure formula with the knowledge of modern game design mixed with classic philosophies and modern hardware not holding it back, but until then, the adventure formula is something that has incredible potential and produced some great games, but never quite realized the peak of said potential.
@@supercamborg4218 I respect that. Idk about your story choice tho. I think frontiers has a strong story but they didn't have good enough cutscenes to help set the tone and edge of what I'd like to see from sonic. Plus once he gets fully corrupted, they resolved it so anti climatically. I was expecting a big moment too for the cyloop and how he obtains it in the story but all they did was have you unlock a move in the skill tree. Pretty lame. But that's a nitpick lol. It really needed another year and its a miracle we got what we got, so im greatful. But solid choices. I'm that sonic 2 guy and adventure 1 or 2 biased guy as well. All sonics story's are both silly and serious, but I got that attachment to Shadow and the Biolizard in space thing. Shit was cool as hell at the time. Generations is a good game, I wish they woulda kept that sonic control scheme and made more original levels for forces but that's another story.
@@kevin_kevinson Yeah forces was really disappointing. Also I have gripes with Frontiers, but I also have issues with the stories in other Sonic games so I consider the strong points of it (such as addressing and fixing previous character portrayals and just really solid dynamics in general, plus being one of the few Sonic stories to genuinely make me a little emotional) to be worth the spot. Honestly I’m just a big fan of how Ian Flynn writes for the series, and I wish we could’ve gotten the story we would’ve had if not for time restraints.
Im really glad the Adventure hate bandwagon is over now. SA1 and especially SA2 deserve to be remembered as Classics
Sadly, not yet it seems :(
It’s should be remade
Bro what?, I remember these games being well received, when did this happen?
@@andrewhastings8244 I have absolutely NO idea.
@Elico 2589 It's still happening, in my experience.
Though I mostly agree, I think Tails in a mech still isn't using the character to his potential. Tails is a tech guy that's always working on gadgets to make things more efficient. With this in mind, I feel like a Ratchet and Clank playstyle would work better. There would still be the shooting, but with more diverse gadget and access to Tails' agility, speed and flight.
Don't get me wrong, it's definitely not my ideal Tails playstyle, but in the context of this game I think it works.
How is it not? Tails has always used technology throughout the series up to this point, having rebuilt the Tornado in the classic games, having his own workshop in Adventure, the various gadgets in Tails Adventure and now building his own mechs.
And to have Tails use his tech for good and contrasting and even rivaling Eggman in this game, who uses it for evil, only serves to show how awesome Tails really is.
A completely different play style for him would be severely out of place in this game given that you, don't forget, also control Eggman using a mech.
Sonic adventure 2 focused a lot on duality. From the logo, to the story, to the advertising, to the gameplay. Sega wanted Eggman to be playable and mech suits fit him better than a ratchet and clank gameplay so for a sense of duality, they made tails in a mech suit so for the context of this game, I think it's alright.
Think of it this way
Rouge is a treasure hunter who is trying to collect as many jewels as possible and Knuckles is trying to protect the master emerald from being stolen from him
Sonic and Shadow are probably the most prominent example of this. not only have highly contrasting personalities but in the context of this game's time period we didn't know for sure if Shadow was the true ultimate life form. For all we knew it could have been Shadow was just a being created by Gerald in his attempt to destroy humanity with false memories from Mariah but Sonic being the original. This got debunked later but at the time it seemed reasonable. Shadow even said at the final boss "Sonic, I think I figured out what the ultimate life form is, It might be you."
Then there's Tails and Eggman. Both are highly confident in their abilities but Tails was using his Knowledge for good and Eggman for bad.
yeah but it aint segas fault that fans pressured them into making tails playable coming close to release
@@JeffTheBagelpretty crazy that they added Shadow, Rouge, and Tails a whole year before release
Loved this video, I've always thought this but you finally managed to put into words how SA2's stages really aren't more linear than SA1. They're just exactly what you said - more streamlined.
I'm not the #1 SA2 fan in the world, but still I do always enjoy hearing people talk about their opinions on this game, positive or negative.
Adventure 2 is awesome. The ranking system and chao garden have kept me hooked for years. Multiplayer is fun with friends, too.
Still remember the time you spent an hour just trying to find ONE shard in a Knuckles stage...
Yep the reason why I dont like SA2
@@Eshanthegreat Ahm... Did it ever occur to you that there is a way of discussing opinions on a video game without sounding like an absolute tosser?
@@effietime37 Yeah sure man however most people hating on Sonic adventure 2 often present their opinions as a fact without backing them up with in depth arguments to me that is very annoying although i definitely recognise that i am at fault on my previous comment since the guy did mention it's his opinion my sincere apology for sounding like a crap bucket
@@NitroSanitar Skill issue
Skill issue.
14:34 i personally think the radar was nerfed in order to make it less of a priority than the previous game you see in previous sonic adventure radar was the only thing that could help you get the emeralds meaning the whole gameplay loop boiled down to hovering around aimlessly till it blinks and don't even get me started on hint balls however in sa 2 the hint system is much more fleshed out and pieces are hidden in very specific locations which requires great attention from player like there is a location in aquatic mine with a traingulated skull formation where emerald is hidden very often and there is only one such formation in the entire level not to mention the hints also progressively get more generous with each emerald having 3 of them thus often emphasising on following a particular direction and lastly comes the radar which pin points that said location so i feel that nerfed radar being a problem is just psychological because even with the sa 1 radar players had to hunt for those locations
Honestly, with the way treasure hunting stages are structured, SA1's radar would be more distracting than helpful. It's much more time efficient to focus on one emearld at a time, memorizing the location with just 1 hint, than to just wander aimlessly until the radar blinks. That structure is more luck based because a faster time is moreso based on the emeralds spawning close enough to where the radar is almost always detecting more than 1. Whereas in SA2, the more locations you memorize based on 1 hint, the faster on average you'll be able to complete the stage regardless of where they spawn. Even on casual runs, I rarely ever get lower than a B rank.
As a kid I refused to use hints during levels, mainly cause most of the time they didn’t help me at all but also because I kind of thought it was cheating
I think the change to the emerald radar came in conjunction to the change in level design. Having all of the shards available was necessary in SA1 due to the fact that almost every level was obviously designed around Sonic first, with other characters plunked in later. This results in almost all of Knuckles levels in SA1 being poorly fit for his style of movement and being able to easily ping every shard is pretty much an anti-frustration feature.
Because SA2's levels are all individually designed for each character, Knuckles and Rouge both have levels that largely take advantage of their movement options and are also built around landmarks that capitalize on the improved hint system (which could only really work with the one-emerald-at-a-time system). And regarding the hint system, the A rank scores are designs so that you can use a monitor once on each shard and still A rank the stage. This is part of the overall methodology for how to reward each character an A-rank-- with the hedgehogs you need to focus on speed and execution, with the mechs you need to focus on maximizing your stargeting multiplier, and with the treasure hunters you're rewarded for familiarizing yourself with the level layout and navigation.
I know why it can frustrate people (having to circle back to where you just were because the shard is buried or in an enemy can feel like busywork) and there are certainly more elegant solutions in hindsight, but for what it was doing I think it works.
RIP the adventure 1 hub worlds, from my understanding they were a leftover remnant from whenever SA1 was a sonic themed RPG that had sonic and knuckles as the main characters
I actually quite enjoy Knuckles and Rouge's treasure hunting stages (save for Mad Space), and I don't normally have much trouble getting As and Bs in them... but, yeah, the radar being nerfed was kind of dumb on Sonic Team's part.
Totally agree though. Sonic Adventure 2 is amazing, and is also my favorite. Frontiers is perhaps the first time in a long time I felt the series came close, but it hasn't quite it that zenith SA2 has.
Adventure 2 is definitely my favorite sonic game despite the flaws. I actually really enjoy the mech and treasure hunting stages, definitely not as bad as some people let on.
I never understood why people hated the adventure games or why they became controversial down the line. I have no nostalgia for these games, I was born in the 2000s so I mostly grew up with an entirely different form of sonic, and yet these games are so incredible to me. They aren’t perfect but Adventure 1 and Adventure 2 set the perfect blueprints for what the ideal 3d sonic game should be like. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Adventure style of gameplay, and although I did not like the idea of multiple gameplay styles at first, (I just wanted to be sonic) playing sonic 06 made me realize that I actually don’t hate the idea of Multiple characters in a sonic game; in fact I would hope for there to be multiple characters to play as. I feel like the way Sonic 06 handled multiple characters compared to Adventure 1 and 2 (or at least the idea that 06 had with multiple characters) was much more enjoyable for me personally, and overall a really good compromise between those who just wanted to play as Sonic and those who wanted more characters. There were still more ways to innovate upon the Adventure style of gameplay and It’s such a shame that we would never get a chance to see what a modern Adventure game could feel like until Project 06 came out. It stings even more that Sonic Team seemed to improve upon the Multiple character philosophy in sonic games with 06, only for the next game Sonic Unleashed to force a completely different gameplay style onto players once again. They literally regressed
Same I think the ideas of playing as those characters in small sections of the levels was genius
To be fair, 06 along with previous games such as sa2, also forced completely different gameplay styles onto players. Telekinesis and vehicle gameplay stray just as much from Sonic gameplay as something like the werehog, treasure hunting or mech shooting.
@@snakey888 That's totally valid. For me personally, although flawed, I really liked the adventure 1 approach, where I pick a character and I know what I am getting out of that playthrough, rather than being randomly switched every level like in Adventure 2. Also with 06, Project 06 only lets you do trail select (Which is how I usually play the adventure games anyway unless I am specifically feeling like replaying the story) so I feel like I have a lot of freedom with picking and choosing what I want to do when I feel like it. All of the characters in project 06 are so freaking fun to play as too, so that helps a ton as well
"This is the best 3D Sonic"
Generations and Frontiers Sonic would like a word with you
@@benmontey3438 Hell nah
@spontman Bro SA2 Sonic is MAD slippery. The "control" is all over the place Lol. I swear this game overrated imo
Generations is fun, perfecting the boost and movement physics.
Frontiers personally puts me in the mind of Sonic, immersing me in the world around him. You have complete control of speed, physics, and you get drop dash which is a nice touch.
nigga said frontiers LMAO
Generations is great but doesn't beat SA2. Frontiers is just good
@@carinaslima To each their own. The only things I like from SA2 are the story, City Escape, Green Forest, Metal Harbor, and some of the music. Aside from that, it's just an overrated over glorified nostalgia trip. Gen is incredible and is even better in SXSGen, with its clean 4k 60 fps upscale. Frontiers is just amazing for the reasons I mentioned in my previous comment.
I don’t like the base game.
I mean it’s awesome on modding
It’s not like i use heavy game altering mods either
But this game is beloved by many so I don’t feel the need to tear it down
Respectfully disagree about it being the best 3D sonic. That goes to Generations, imo.
I actually find SA2 to be quite flawed
Nahhh SA2 is the best Sonic.
Unpopular opinion: I really like SA2 Motion Capture animation, for some reason I think it’s so charming.
This game has a special place in my heart lol
The Hunting levels reward skill like the other gameplay styles do. The Emerald shards/Chaos Emeralds/Keys are always in the same set locations. Instead, it's WHICH locations that are different. It's very easy and possible to collect the trinkets without hints, and, even then, it's not using hints themselves that determine a rank, but the time it takes for you to find the trinkets. I have been able to A-rank Hunting stages while still using hints. The Hunting is actually very rewarding and fun to play once you, well, get good.
It got hate because no life speedrunners hate the rng and it ruins their precious speed runs. Buncha losers
@@kevin_kevinson Funny that you mention that, because I've seen speedrunners blaze through these levels like they were nothing. The speedrunners who complained must've sucked, making them double losers.
@@KingdomHeartsBrawler lol. I love the knuckles levels. Never understood the hate. It's always the small minority of complainers that get what they want. While the normal people sit by and purchase the next game to find out that everything you once loved is gone XD
@@kevin_kevinson Yep.
Good review. I hope some day we reach Sonic Unleashed analysis because I really think that this is one of the best 3d games in Sonic series (Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 also in this list).
We will get to Unleashed eventually. I'd like to review all of the mainline 3D Sonic games by the end of the year.
@@spontman ok. Good to know.
@@spontman Fun Fact: When Sonic has to performe Quicktime events in Sonic Unleashed, you can pause the game if your not ready.
The look of SA2 just gives me so much nostalgia
honest banger lit content fr fr no cap all swag- currently watching while vacuuming. I have the volume up very loud.
This put a very amusing picture in my head, thank you.
This is the best Sonic 3D game ever.
Oh, but I’m not done.
This is the best SONIC game ever made.
Yes.
I honestly agree but, I swear this game loves dragging the other characters into your face, not saying that I'd enjoy having sonic only, but there's times when I want to play as the character for a refresher from the slow paced nature of the other characters.
Like after pumpkin hill a tails level, and after that ANOTHER KNUCKLES LEVEL?!?!
I grew up with the Genesis games and Sonic Adventure 2 was peak 3D Sonic!!!
I mean, as somebody who had fully completed the Spyro original trilogy when I got Adventure 2, the hunting stages are not that bad. You move really fast after all.
Something i dont get when i was a kid is how the military could not tell which one was sonic, I MEAN SHADOW IS LITERALLY BLACK
About Treasure Hunting: Using too many hints meaning you lose on A rank is fantastic for replayability, y'all just need to drop the facade that SA1's Emerald Hunting was better lol. Knuckles/Rouge are INCREDIBLY FAST on the ground, walls and air. You can cover the whole stages very quickly while scanning for Emeralds using the Radar and you can still use one or two hints if you're fast enough, plus you can go for Golden Beetles or Ring Boxes. The only exceptions I will give you are Death Chamber and Egg Quarters, you need to make a decision of what color sector to visit and hope you made the right call. And Mad Space is obviously awkward because of the weird gravity forces of the planets plus the opposite hints but you can still go very fast.
It's satisfying to think on a route for yourself and adapt to new routes depending on Emerald location and the Hints you decide to get. Can you get screwed over and lose on A rank due to RNG? Yes. Would that next try for A rank take you more than 2 minutes? No.
So true, sa2 haters are shit at the game.
Can the community come together to make more sonic and shadow levels mods for this game?? How much would it cost?
It sucks that the rail grinding system is broken in modern releases of SA2
Divided game nowadays but I don't care, this is my favorite Sonic game too. I just love most of the levels, yes even the mech and treasure hunting despite their flaws, and I especially love the Sonic/Shadow stages. Not only that, it has an ambitious great story and there's tons of side content to do.
As a long time Sonic fan, and having respect for its 2D origins, Adventure-era was where the series was at its best. With Sonic Frontiers, it opened a new road for Sonic. Take a more mature approach to storytelling, without it being too obnoxiosly serious as 06 with modern mechanics and the adventure handling, and damn. Would be a nice game moving on.
I never achieved my dream of creating a Devil Chao but I did manage to grind my way to the top and create an all S rank that crushed in every competition.
Shame this game hasn’t aged well for me. The environments, movements, gameplay, it’s all boring or stale.
Thankfully, that’s what’s great about sonic, it has variety so if you don’t like the first few games, the others will be different
You’re a bundle of sticks.
It's so hard for me to enjoy anything but the speed stages when playing this
yeah i love this game but i'd put sa1/the other non dark age 3d games over this as knuckles is a step backwards/forced into the story outside the ending,the sonic stages are linear,eggman should've been a ratchet and clank style with the machines he made in the classic era or an tails have option to leave the mech and it's story isn't the magnum opus of sonic writing as it has dumb moments or contrivances to the gameplay like the knuckles space levels being from him idiotically putting the shards in the shuttle,amy being useless outside a hokey speech and tails being a weak retread of sa1 that make the other games closer to actually peak.
@@tracyndiyob162 yeah i dont dislike sa2 or write it off altogether, but it feels like a step back from sa1 in some ways.
15:19 that is not true, using hints does not make you lose the A Rank it’s about how Fast you clear the Stage not on how many Hints you used.
A UA-cam by the Name of ExoparadiGamer explained in his Review of SA2 that he once cleared the Death chamber stage Using 3 Hints and still got the A Rank so what you just said there is simply not true at all you just didn’t clear the stage fast enough. The Ranking is About speed.
I agree. Bought Sonic Adventure 2 before the first Sonic Adventure and felt it was much more complete, challenging but also diverse (playing all those characters through the game) and it was less story oriented (never bother as I only enjoy the gameplay 😅). The music was also much better.
So stepping from part 2 to 1 felt like going backwards or stepping down.
But they’re both worth playing through.
To be fair you never play 2 Consecutive Treasure Hunting stages, although Death Chamber, Meteor Herd, Security Hall, & Mad Space have boss fights after them where you are still playing as Knuckles or Rouge. As for the upgrade system it's actually easier than you think in Adventure 2, although a couple stages are trolls when it comes to them. Still the system of 1 Level Up item per Stage excluding Kart Stages, Cannon's Core, Chao World, & Green Hill makes things easier to keep track of.
As for Treasure Hunting you do realize that when you get better you'll use less hints & if you can get the objects you are searching for quickly with a single hint each you still get good scores enough for A Ranks. The 2nd of your objectives is satisfied by the Treasure Hunting. You ignored other aspects of the game though like 2P Battle Mode, Chao, & Kart Stuff.
Side content is beyond the scope of my retrospectives unless it's relevant to the main game.
SA1 and 2 are my ideal Sonic games and i still post content of them because they are as you say "THE BEST 3D SONIC" and i completely agree with you 😌
It’s more consistent than Adventure 1. The story is better. Gameplay for the most part is better. Don’t forget the amount of people working on the game were 150, Adventure 1 had 300. Sonic Adventure 2 was made in one year when Adventure 1 was made in three. Imagine if the game had the same coverage as Adventure 1.
"without further ado, this is my review, of sonic adventure 2"
bars
Y'know, I never really thought about it until now, but what were they thinking with the Eclipse Cannon? I get why having a weapon that can blow up entire planets would be advantageous to the Empire in Star Wars, because THEY HAVE OTHER PLANETS THEY CAN GO TO if one gets destroyed. But with Sonic, there's just Earth, or Mobius, or whatever. Why would you need a weapon that can blow up a planet if you live on the only planet worth blowing up?
Edit: ok so I just went and checked and apparently the reason they built it was to defend the planet from the Black Arms, by destroying the "Black Comet" which was an actual comet that the Black Arms modified and rode around in. I never played Shadow the Hedgehog where all of this was explained, but it's weird that we had to wait until that game to find out why something so important to the plot of SA2 existed in the first place. So basically the writers had to retcon in a reason why the Eclipse Cannon existed, so they invented an enemy threatening enough to require the creation of a world-ending laser, but stupid enough to ride around in a big dumb rock instead of assembling, like, a fleet of spaceships or something. Basically the Black Arms picked a fight with a technologically superior species and got their asses kicked like a bunch of scrubs the way they were always destined to. This series has a real problem with introducing villains that come across as total morons if you think about their plans for even five seconds.
I mean, Professor Gerald was the one who made the Eclipse Cannon in the first place, and his whole plan was to wipe out all of humanity before GUN would inevitably execute him. As for what Eggman himself was thinking... couldn't tell ya lol. I'd say he was just bluffing, but the end of the Hero campaign seems to suggest that he would've actually used it had Sonic not acted in time so... IDK.
Edit: Just read your edit, and I guess I'm wrong about that first part. So I guess your point stands lol
Slightly unrelated, but I just realized that the Eclipse Cannon would've theoretically released Dark Gaia had Eggman's plan succeeded. That'd make for an interesting alternate-universe scenario!
Yeah, but Gerald just added the "destroy Earth" protocol to a weapon that GUN were already building for other purposes. The thing is, we find out in Shadow The Hedgehog what those "other purposes" are, but until then we just have this enormous weapon that can blow up half the moon but no evident reason for it to exist. Like, the explanation they came up with (i.e., that it was created specifically to fight an alien threat) makes sense since you'd literally have to have an off-world threat to point that kind of weapon at, but until Shadow the Hedgehog came out it just seemed like GUN had designed a weapon it could basically never use unless it wanted to wipe out half a continent. I suppose it was inevitable that GUN's solution to the Black Arms problem was, well, a big gun, but considering the 24-hour recharge period imagine how hilariously screwed Earth would be if the aliens had brought TWO ships
Edit: just read your comment about Dark Gaia. Very interesting! And what would Iblis have to say about any of this?
@@normalgraham Not to mention The End... jeez, how many ancient deities has Sonic fought at this point?!
SA2 is my favorite video game of all time.
Shadow needed more stages! 4 didn't do him justice.
I wish we lived in a world where the Adventure games aren’t looked upon nearly as fondly. Because every game after it was so much better. Ah, what a world.
There would still be the shooting, but with more diverse gadget and access to Tails' agility, speed and flight.
I feel like they could have easily fixed the radar issue by improving it through upgrades over the course of the game. That way it remains properly nerfed for those smaller stages but increases in effectiveness towards the end of the game with larger stages. You could argue that it makes the initial difficulty balance of the earlier stages moot, but I'd say it encourages replayability and is no different from being able to bring in other upgrades from later parts of the game.
That would be a sensible approach to the problem, honestly. Even if it was like one of the optional upgrades, I would take it.
I only played adventure 1 anything significant amount of time but now I want to play all the games
sa1 is better cause of the adventure fields, it feels more like an "adventure"..
Have knukles radar detect the radar for three shards wouldnt make sense considering the gameplay for this game is based on the hint and grtting the A ranks for the treasure hunting is all about a balance between getting hints and collrcting rings defeating enemies to compensate for that. The hints arent just bad.
Great video, but people really overplay the hints in SA2. I can use multiple and still get an A rank without speed running, and I haven't played these levels that many times.
Damn this video is popping off! Congrats on 100 :D
15:14 actually you can still pretty much get A rank while still using at least 4 to 5 hints provided you do it in minimal time only thing that using hints would affect is score you get for each emerald
Am I the only one that miss raising Chao? ☹️
Everybody does
That title is enough for me to instantly like, comment, subscribe.
SA2 appreciation is, well, greatly appreciated.
Now SA2 doesn’t get as much respect as basically any other Sonic game. It REALLY deserves it
Bruh this channel slaps. Gonna subscribe
Fun Fact: Eggman’s playable debut was actually in Sonic R, but this game is his first playable appearance in the main series.
if you count spinoffs, his first playable appearance was Sonic Drift, actually.
@@thenightwriter619 oh yeah that’s right
Babish secretly has a gaming channel??? fire, subscribed
I do love Sonic Adventure 2. I own several different versions of it. On the GC and Dreamcast for example.
I feel like the only reason the 2012 hd version of the game is E 10+ is because in the lyrics to Death Chamber Sonic and Knuckles are having a conversation, and at some point Sonic says, “You’re damn right, Knuckles.” Probably the only time Sonic has (technically) said a swear word besides in ShTH.
To this day, I hold out hope that they'll top this game.
The only thing that i think make this game bad is gameplay, is just fun to use Sonic and Shadow, the other are just boring and slow
To be honest, I can't really blame anyone for not liking the way character switching is handled in this and I say that as someone who used to really hate playing as the other characters but now really likes playing as them. I just think anytime a game forces you to play as someone you might not want to, you run the risk of putting people off and I think the first games solution to characters was the best they've ever had since it just let you play as a much of a character as you wanted with no breaks and it's part of the reason why, for a long time, I held the first game in better regard than this one.
Otherwise, i'm in agreement with almost everything else. Playing this game again last year for the first time in a long time was a rollercoaster of emotions for me but I think I can confidently say this is probably my favorite Sonic game if not my favorite platformer.
06 is the best one in terms of ideas but project 06 completed the other stuff that 06 couldnt do since it was rushed
While I personally prefer SA1, I've definitely always enjoyed SA2 as a worthy successor and another one of the best games in the series. You make a compelling argument that it improves on the controls, particularly integrating the light-speed dash and expanding its gameplay potential, but I do think you're splitting hairs on semantics arguing that a more narrow and streamlined level design isn't more linear... If you move around less in an open space, you're literally moving in a more linear manner. This, of course, isn't a bad thing, I don't consider it that big of a departure from the original and the level design is still generally excellent regardless.
This duology is one of my all-time favourites and I always love hearing people reminisce on these games and talk about what they love about them. This video was very enjoyable. As controversial as they may be, the fact that we're still talking about them, and that so many of us feel compelled to defend their honor after all these years says a lot about the impact they had and how special they are to many of us.
just found this channel, great stuff all around ^^
They are actually talking about adventure 3 the director mentioned it
Sonic 06 WAS SA3 in many ways.
@@alexgomez6723 the directors have been bringing up going back to the adventure series. Plus the ending of 06 is canon which means characters don’t even remember that story it was kind of a separate timeline
i think the treasure hunting are an improvement than how they were in sa1 even with the nerfed radar
the radar doesnt really bother me like other people but that may be just because ive played this game a shit ton and know how to explore knuckles and rouges levels thoroughly
Even as someone who is bothered by the radar, it is still a massive improvement. The OST has cool vibes, the leveldesign is much better and the characters are much more fun to play compared to silly SA1 knux who required a button combo to dig.
Yeah, the radar nerf sucks, but I understand why they did it. Some of the stages could be over in seconds if you could track all three at a time, so they wanted to make you explore the stages so it didn't seem insubstantial.
However, they took the easiest solution, not the best one. If treasure hunting ever returns, they should instead just add some logic that makes it so that emeralds will always be placed with sufficient distance between each other, so that the player is still encouraged to explore the stage, but they are also afforded the freedom of tracking each piece in whatever order they choose.
I actually find that I enjoy some of the treasure hunting stages *more* than some of the speed stages. Especially when playing the optional extra missions - the non-linear nature of the hunting levels means that getting a certain number of rings, finding the lost chao and playing hard mode all offer unique experiences. Conversely, the linearity of the speed stages means that all of those objectives boil down to "play the level", "play part of the level ", and "play the level with added bullshit enemy placement."
@@lpfan4491 level design is definitely an improvement yeah
sa1s TH level design was fine since sonics stages so much open space that it was reasonable to be able to put knuckles gameplay in there but sa2 having level design specifically for TH definitely made them better
@@alfiehicks1 well no the speed stages still have the 100 rings anf lost chao missions but replaying treasure hunting stages could be more interesting because of the randomized emerald placements so maybe
@Subb Yeah, I know the speed stages still have those missions. What I'm saying is that basically all of them are achieved in a normal run of the level anyway. Collecting 100 rings is basically required to get an A-rank in the regular level anyway, as is completing the level in under 5 minutes. Finding the Lost Chao amounts to playing the level normally until you reach the Mystic Melody shrine - the only extra mission that makes a difference in the speed stages is the Hard Mode mission, and even that is usually just full of cheap enemy placements that fuck with your muscle memory - not something I would voluntarily replay after getting the A-rank.
In a hypothetical remake, I'd want each gameplay style to have their own set of objectives tailored to each experience. Maybe even stage-specific challenges, like getting all of the ramp jumps in City Escape, getting to the top section of the rocket in Metal Harbour, etc. As it stands, the extra missions are just a bit redundant for the mech and speed stages.
I am glad at least someone is talking positive about the game with valid points unlike many people who just blindly hate the game without ever explaining in depth their arguments
I think you're wrong about the boss fights. You don't have to wait to hit them again for the most part. For Big foot/Hot shot, you can use the boxes to hit the boss while it's still flying around in the air, or the bounce bracelet if you return to the boss fight later. For Egg Golem, you can super bounce to avoid having to get behind him, you can also use the bounce bracelet when the Golem does that headbutt attack to reach the weak point. You can also land on his arm when he does that attack and spin dash on him to reach the weak point too. Rouge's boss fight against the Flying Dog requires no waiting, you just climb on the wall, jump off, hit the cockpit and repeat. King Boom Boo is an annoying fight but if you're fast enough you can hit him 4 times to kill him in one cycle. Biolizard is really the only boss that I would categorize as a "hit once and wait for the weak point to open up" boss but it's a good challenging boss that requires you to time your jumps/somersaults properly to not get hit and even that fight has a speedrun trick that let's you hit him without waiting around for him to be vulnerable that I'm not able to do
Yeah I realized this recently. Makes replaying the game a lot more fun
i really wanted to love sa2 like i loved sa1, but the treasure hunting stages and the mech stages along with their 5 missions, was so painful to get done, also the fact there is no semi open world "adventure fields" like sa1, which made it feel like way less of an "adventure", the only fun parts about sa2 is the speed stages and chao garden, everything else feels like homework...
i think even sonic heroes is a better OVERALL game then sa2
@@kevin_kevinson no need to be an asshole, i like unleashed and sa2 for what the fun parts of the games have to offer (for sa2 the speed stages and chao garden, and for unleashed the day stages) if you don't like unleashed then good for you, this video wasn't about unleashed.
I agree completely. However, you need to be careful. If you write something negative about SA2, you are at risk of being targeted by Sonic fans. Looks like you got lucky this time.
@@Safalmao I agree to me SA1 > Heroes > SA2.
Absolute FACTS. 💯💯
I've re-watched this too many times, help me...
maybe if you watch it again it'll break the cycle
It was fun, thats what mattered to me.
The final level is my favorite.
Here to quickly post my own thoughts and ideas. Not very focused, just stuff I was thinking about.
Tails in a mech was a great choice, duality with Eggman and all that, but I still would have liked a few sections or a few levels where you could play as Tails outside the mech, I'd imagine more vertical levels which resemble speed stages but more focused on vertical movement, climbing or descending, if that makes sense. And perhaps a single level playing in the jet form of the mech too, to make use of Talis's separate vehicle forms and perhaps the same with Eggman.
About your suggestion about Shadow getting the ability to bounce like Sonic, not the worst idea but I have my own. Instead of copying Sonic's moveset I'd prefer a new ability that utilizes Shadow's hover boots. Allowing a higher jump to reach higher locations like the bounce does for Sonic, perhaps a short hover to slow decent or a double jump. It would fit shadow much more in my opinion.
Technically isn't Eggman first playable in Sonic R in the 3d era?
I think a lot of people like the story of sa2 and not the gameplay
I disagree. In my opinion, Sonic Robo Blast 2 is the best 3D Sonic game. Not only that, it's the greatest Sonic game of all-time.
Hell no
@@LankP Why not?
@ the base game is ok in my opinion. The controls aren’t super tight, the thok should be replaced with a homing attack. and the springs are very finicky. SA1 translates sonic in 3d a lot better with the gameplay and controls alone - a better 3d sonic game.
That's a fangame
This was a pretty good video too watch
Awesome video. I agree with the title.
This is where quality was lacking
The hints will downgrade your rank is not ture. The Teasure hunting stages are all about speed and how fast you get them. You can still use a good amount of hints but also being quick enough to finish the stage. Using a lot of hints while taking a lot of time will decrease your ranking.
I get why people like SA2, just personally I find the game extremely frustrating (mostly in the treasure hunting and mech stages). Granted I haven’t played a lot of the 3D games (only sa1&2, unleashed, generations, colors, forces, & frontiers) so that might be a factor. Overall yeah it’s fun especially hard mode stages but I just find I loose my patience with this game.
Honestly when it comes to Sonic Adventure 1 or 2 it's really difficult for me to say which is best definitively. On the surface it's clear they're cut from the same cloth, but those that know the games well enough can find more differences, like how Adventure 1's level design is mostly more open ended, while SA2's is more linear and filled with more spectacle.
Like I wouldn't call the changes from SA2 bad even for some one who greatly enjoys SA1. They're just different enough that it doesn't feel like the exact game copied and pasted from SA1 while still be familiar enough to be recognized as a sequel yet has it's own identity.
They both just feel like they have their own distinct flavors whether than a clear better take. Want a more open ended feel SA1's got that, want a more 'focused' experience with half the game-play styles but a more spectacle driven presentation SA2 would cover that.
people always like to say sa1&sa2 are only the best bc of nostalgia and that always annoys me because they’re genuinely good games? or ppl say they don’t hold up to todays standard and have aged. of course they’ve aged! they were made forever ago 💀 games back then had a completely different standard than games of today(graphics, performance wise, tech limits of hardware of time)
i still replay them. and the stories were the best imo. not too cheesy and not inappropriately serious. i liked the balance especially for these being the first real step into 3d sonic.
i still like listening to and will always watch reviews of these positive or negative.
granted sa1 is my overall favorite and what’s funny is i played sa2 before sa1 (had these on gc not dreamcast and got sa2 first). i just liked running around the open world, interacting with the NPCs and seeing the other characters you could play in the world move around and have diff dialogue depending where you were at in the game.
Great video, very entertaining and enjoyable, thank you optimus. Sa2 is a great game undoubtedly. Was curious if u were gonna talk about the ost. I haven't played a lot of sonic games but heros had a good collection for me. Heros next?
Heroes is next, yes. I guess I am still failing to distinguish myself from Optimus Prime..
It needs shadow or is not sonic!
PEAK SONIC!!!!
Love this game and soundtracks
I think that the intent behind most of the game’s jank is inherent difficulty increase. For example, mapping the abilities to one button is clearing intentional as there are obstacles which take advantage of this idea and kill the player if they mindlessly spam the B button. Mindless playing in SA2 will get you a low rank if not flat out killed and I like it. You can’t just waltz in like newer sonic games and speed through. There’s a science and thought process behind every play style and mastering it opens a phenomenal level of replayability. The speedrunning community have had the most fun with this imo. SA2 takes skill and practice, but when you master a treasure hunting map, or are able to speed through a sonic stage while getting the points for an A rank, it hits different.
There is clearly meant to be a learning curve for Sonic Adventure 2, but I sincerely doubt that they purposefully made certain mechanics janky for that reason. If that was the case, it wouldn't be very good game design.
I'm almost positive that they mapped all of the specials to the same button to keep the controls simple like the Genesis games did. But when there's so many moves with extremely disparate purposes, that's when problems arise.
Still, intentional or not, it is something you can learn to avoid with experience like you said.
Gameplay looks great, are you using any mods?
Good video! I don't personally agree, I think that Sonic Unleashed was the best 3D Sonic, but Sonic Adventure 2 is a respectable option. It is my second favorite after all.
It's also a much better choice than Sonic Heroes
I blame Projared's atrocious review for the current SA2 hatewagon.
11:03 go play red mountain or sky deck and come back.
I have. Try Final Rush.
@@spontman @Spontman That might be the only example in SA2 to go with though, which is problematic, no?
Sonic Adventure levels may be linear, but Sonic Adventure 2's Sonic stages are even more linear.
Casinopolis and Ice Cap are two more stages in SA1 that have legitimate branching variety upon replay, with Ice Cap giving opportunity to even sequence break in multiple places. Sonic Adventure 2 Sonic stages are more polished and 'streamlined', but they are largely the same experience every time you play them, and they are certainly more linear on average in terms of what you can actually do in the levels.
@@AwijoshSun It's ONE example. Every speed level in SA2 has multiple routes, even the most basic ones like City Escape and Metal Harbor. I've replayed SA1 even more than I have SA2, and if anything I'd argue the first game's levels are on average more basic than the sequel's.
@@spontman Casinopolis has an entire alternate stage embedded into it, which in itself has multiple routes. The 'alternate paths' in most Sonic/Shadow stages in SA2 are mostly just briefly divergent shortcuts. There are a lot of these in SA1, but there are also moments of legitimate variety on top of it, and this probably due to the levels being shared with other characters. You can walk around and explore in At Dawn if you want, and even if you don't, there are many ways to cut through that area as Sonic despite how small it is. Falling off of the wall run in Speed Highway and going that way feels like an entirely different area, unlike stages like Radical Highway, which have straightforward 'lower areas' if you fail at the platforming, which amount to just taking the slower way across.
The alternate paths in Final Rush really feel like different branching routes, and I don't feel that in any other Speed stage in SA2.
@@AwijoshSun I don't entirely disagree with this, but I don't think it's a reason to call SA2's levels "more linear". "Compact" might be a better term. How different the routes look and feel from each other can be attributed to how spaced out they are, rather than the core design of the levels. At least that's how I see it.
I enjoyed both Adventure videos, although I unfortunately don't agree on a few points on SA2. I don't know if I'd call the pacing better, since the shifting play styles can prove as problematic if you don't like them as much. I shouldn't feel exasperated or discouraged to find out that the next stage is something I've enjoyed less and less, and not the thing that I liked. In the first game, each style was at least quarantined to it's own story, so you can deal with it on your own terms (or not at all if you dislike it that much). In SA2 you're forced to in order to make progress, and sometimes it feels like a slog.
As for Tails'/Eggman, you seem to gloss over how clunky those mechs are; they feel awful to control, especially compared to Gamma, and there are genuinely infuriating moments where the physics cause problems with platforming of all things (like how they occasionally fall like a brick if you barely miss the edge of a platform). It's even worse before you get the hover upgrade.
The only one I can say I legitimately enjoyed was Cosmic Wall, because of the floaty space physics and gimmicks.
I barely have issues with the mechs
@@AkameGaKillfan777 By saying 'barely' with no other detail, you acknowledge that there were issues; there is a possibility that you are downplaying them, or diminishing the problems other people had.
agreed. i completed my first ever playthroughs of sa1 and sa2 about a month ago (both modded just to make game look better) and i played sa1 before sa2 (for obvious reasons). i was hyping myself up for sa2 expecting it to feel somehow better than sa1 did, but it honestly felt worse to me. the mechs are way too slow and dont seem to lock on nearly as consistently as gamma did so you can get combos for a-ranks, probably due to the turning delay. for me the treasure hunting stages were pretty alright even with the different radar but fuck that rouge stage with all the planets, forgot what it was called. speed stages were probably the best part of the game for me, though the nerf to spindash jumping (and the nerf to spindash in general) made them feel slower than sa1.
i understand why people like sa2 gameplay over sa1, just personally i found sa1 to be a smoother and more enjoyable experience even with all the jank
@@AwijoshSun And when I do have them it's because of a mistake I made. Also I find them better at locking on to objects than Gamma
I like this game but personally I can’t agree with it being the best, at least gameplay wise. It’s certainly fun, definitely a good game and one I want to see used as a base for future games to work on and improve from like its predecessor, but again other 3D games edge it out to me, even though there are things I believe this game is best at (honestly I believe a good handful of 3D sonic games are the best at doing at least a few things right). I want to see what more can be done with the adventure formula with the knowledge of modern game design mixed with classic philosophies and modern hardware not holding it back, but until then, the adventure formula is something that has incredible potential and produced some great games, but never quite realized the peak of said potential.
What is the best according to you sir
@@kevin_kevinson In terms of gameplay, Generations. In terms of story, Frontiers. Best overall sonic game (not just counting 3D games) Sonic 3&K.
@@supercamborg4218 I respect that. Idk about your story choice tho. I think frontiers has a strong story but they didn't have good enough cutscenes to help set the tone and edge of what I'd like to see from sonic. Plus once he gets fully corrupted, they resolved it so anti climatically. I was expecting a big moment too for the cyloop and how he obtains it in the story but all they did was have you unlock a move in the skill tree. Pretty lame. But that's a nitpick lol. It really needed another year and its a miracle we got what we got, so im greatful. But solid choices. I'm that sonic 2 guy and adventure 1 or 2 biased guy as well. All sonics story's are both silly and serious, but I got that attachment to Shadow and the Biolizard in space thing. Shit was cool as hell at the time. Generations is a good game, I wish they woulda kept that sonic control scheme and made more original levels for forces but that's another story.
@@kevin_kevinson Yeah forces was really disappointing. Also I have gripes with Frontiers, but I also have issues with the stories in other Sonic games so I consider the strong points of it (such as addressing and fixing previous character portrayals and just really solid dynamics in general, plus being one of the few Sonic stories to genuinely make me a little emotional) to be worth the spot. Honestly I’m just a big fan of how Ian Flynn writes for the series, and I wish we could’ve gotten the story we would’ve had if not for time restraints.
Imagine if theu remade sonoc adventure 1 and 2 togethrr in one oackage 😮
PEAK SONIC ON GOD.
Aged like milk
Congrats on 100 subs
Edit: Holy crap 200 subs already