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How Much Tone Is In The Diodes? Comparing Silicon VS Germanium VS LED In A Hard Clipping Overdrive
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- Question: If the forward voltages between two diode types were made to be similar in value, would there still be a tonal difference?
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Clipping diodes are essential to most overdrive pedals available today. It's commonly known how the different diode types affect the drive characteristics. But, there is a fundamental difference in what is called the "forward voltage" between the diodes that causes it to overdrive differently.
After comparing the overdrive tone between different diodes, I created a circuit where 4 silicon diodes give a similar forward voltage to an LED. Similarly, 2 germanium diodes against a single silicon diode. Let's see if there is a tonal difference when the forward voltages are of similar value.
I hope you enjoy the video, and thanks for watching!
The signal chain: Late 80's Fender Japan Telecaster with Seymour Duncan Broadcaster Pickups - breadboard - 70's Japanese "BF Princeton inspired" tube amp - analog cab sim - computer
#aritone #diode #overdrive #clipping #silicon #germanium #guitar #tone
![Are Elusive Magic Diodes REAL? Germanium Diode Overdrive Tone With 9 Vintage Japanese Diodes [1N34]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1g7MEUePGBw/mqdefault.jpg)
More Shootout Videos: ua-cam.com/play/PLuGyFi1zEmqbyeXcyZgBuAb3NBJP4mzTH.html
This is exactly the info I look for constantly and have a hard time finding it, especially presented this well. Thank you so much for explaining this and also doing the op-amp shoot-outs. All this kinda stuff, I'm here for it. I love that you're doing it on a breadboard in where you're sure that capacitance and pot taper isn't changing. These things pretty much make most shootouts ridiculous and based on naivete but this is legit. Thanks again.
Thanks for watching! And thank you so much for the kind words, it's really encouraging. As you mentioned, I feel like shootouts miss the point when they are conducted with so many variables, especially when the comparison is about such subtle differences.
Another great video with great information. You mention forward voltage being the primary electrical characteristic in this test which is valid. However another parameter to explore is each component’s capacitance. Putting multiple in series as you have done will multiply the overall capacitance which I hypothesize will result in slight tonal variation
Thanks for watching! Great to hear you enjoyed the video! There are so many parameters that can have a subtle effect on the tone, maybe I'll explore diode capacitance in a future video!
Thanks for posting!Really great video!Great information!Can't beat the 'smooth,sweet,mellow' sound of germanium!
Thanks for watching! And thank you so much for the kind words, I really appreciate it! Yes, germanium has a nice softness to the tone.
Gernanium does tend to sound better to my ears, particularly in soft clipping feedback schemes, but schottkys have been the all around winners in my pursuit to have a semiconductor that *truly* passes for a tube. I'm refining some designs today with a long journey to go, and I did achieve a tube texture with fizz, buzz, zing and froth but need to drastically refine the overall bandwidth performance coming out of my guitar.
Pushed really hard, it sounds as crummy as a tube does when pushed to ridiculous levels lol. It's also far from chugging or crunching, but I will get it there over the next 2 months.
I'm getting that ultra vintage sound of when tube distortion was first managed out of failing equipment, damaged mixers, failing tubes etc.
*A hugely satisfying result, but a long way to go until it's useable.*
Thanks for watching! And thank you for sharing your experiences and build stories!
Nice one. I was planning this exact video for my channel! :) FWIW, I always hear a smoother, rounder tone with germaniums. I guess it has something to do with their more gradual change into conduction. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for watching! That would be great if you could make a similar video! Since we would have different circuits, diodes, amps & guitars, it would be fun to compare results and see if our outcome is similar. I also am a big fan of germanium diodes, especially when you stack more than two in series so it doesn't get crazy compressed and low volume. Thank you!
Been looking for a video like this for a while. Great info and brilliantly presented
Thanks for watching! And thank you so much for your kind words, it's really encouraging!
Great content, I have been conducting similar research on this type of thing and I definitely hear different characteristics from the type and amount of the material used in different components when designing my circuits. Some are extremely subtle and in real world situations would be unnoticeable, while others make major differences in their contribution to the end tone. I have also heard different materials react with varying pickup types and different amp choices when using them in effects, so many variations are present that it can make it difficult to distinguish between the factors making it synergistically produce what the end listening experience is. It’s what makes it interesting and fun for me and I imagine many of my friends, colleagues, and customers to embrace the never ending journey of frequency manipulation.😅
Thanks for watching! And thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences! Great to hear you enjoyed the video!
I've found different color LEDs have a different fV with clear being the largest number. Red/Green are about 1.2, Yellow are about 1.4 and blue are 1.8 or so, which makes it easier to clip with them compared to white.
Thanks for watching! Yes, LEDs are all over the map so you definitely want to measure them before implementing them in a circuit, especially if you are designing with a specific value in mind.
Very nice. I appreciate the effort you have put to bring in comparisons. The diode clipping is so sharp. A soft non-linearity sounds much better.
Thanks for watching! Great to hear you enjoyed the video. Yes, especially in a hard clipping circuit, diode clipping can sound harsh.
Thankyou, one of the only people testing these diodes on video and it is very interesting. Do you think the ambient temperature cause differences in tone?
Thanks for watching! And thank you for the very kind words, I really appreciate it! I've always wondered about how temperature would affect the clipping tone of germanium diodes, seeing how transistor fuzz changes its tone noticeably with temperature. Maybe an idea for a future video!
instant subscribe - awesome knowledge!
Great stuff - thanks to the OX Box i think it's about time we get some more objective tone discussion going on!
thank you tone brother🤟
Thanks so much for watching and subscribing! I really appreciate the kind compliments! 😃
I have a Build Your Own Clone Silver Pony II which is a dual Klon kit (One full Klon and one Klon clean boost in the same box). It has a switch on it to select Germanium, Silicon, or LED clipping diodes. You can really hear the difference since you're able to switch diodes without changing any other setting.
I also have their Royal Flush which is a modifiable King of Tone clone. It has switches to turn the soft and hard clipping diodes off. I modified one side with the high gain mod, tone mod, and LED clipping mod. With that side especially you can really hear the op amp overdrive by turning both soft and hard clipping off. It sounds great.
Thanks for watching! Sounds like you have a great selections of pedals and tones!
This is an excellent presentation of a tone comparison.
Thanks for watching! And thank you so much for the kind words, I really appreciate it! I hope you enjoyed the video!
Nice video. The inclusion of schottky diodes would have been great. Also mosfets used as clipping diodes. (For anyone curious, transistors can also be used as diodes but why bother?).
Thanks for watching! Yeah, several other folks have asked for zener, schottky, etc. But, I wanted to focus on the 3 types most commonly used in overdrive pedals.
I was very happy to find this clearly enjoyable video you made. A very necessary comparison of the components in choosing your own sound-base. I would have liked a regular single-coil Stratocaster as the guitar because it’s more used, but that’s a little thing here. Thank you so much, pleasantly presented without unnecessary nonsense!
Thanks for watching! And thank you for the kind comment, great to hear you enjoyed the video! I actually don't own a Strat, it's definitely on my list for the next guitar purchase :)
Great Video! I was thinking of the same set up to compare. Thank you for doing it for me. Good job!
Thanks so much! I really appreciate the kind words! Great to hear that you liked the video, hope it helped in some way. 😃
So interesting and practical video !! Thank You !
Thanks for watching! And thank you so much for your kind words! I really appreciate it! I hope you enjoyed the video!
@@arito Dear author, You not only describe the elements, but also play ! We came here for the SOUND, right? ))) it`s important ;-) God bless !
@@SantaAgain77 Thanks so much! Yes, theory is fun and interesting, but ultimately, it's all about how is sounds!! :-)
Very enjoyable experiment! 👍 I modified my cheap Joyo vintage OD with a switch for asymmetrical hard clipping to ground. I used 1 silicon diode at 0.7v and 1 small led at 0.92v. I tried different combos and this sounded the best to me. It sounds very nice with humbuckers. Maybe you could make a video in the future about asymmetrical vs symmetrical soft and hard clipping.
Thank you! Great to hear you enjoyed the video! I like what you did with the subtle asymmetrical clipping, I bet it sounds great. I'm planning on making a video comparing symmetrical and asymmetrical clipping, then going further with extreme asymmetrical forward voltage imbalance. Hopefully I'll get around to shooting that one soon. 😃
@@mal2ksc It is an Infrared LED, so can't be seen with the naked eye. I think it can be seen through a video or photo.
I have some Superior germaniumdiodes From the beginning 60ths.Good for Hendrix fuzz...
Thanks for watching!
@@arito your circuit Schema ist lovely.But I'm old Keyboarder,Synthfreak and Equipment Repaired.Matthias.👍💟☕🎹
@@matthiaswilhelm9813 Thank you! I have no experience with keyboards/synths, but I bet it's a lot of fun!
Great video, thanks!
Thanks for watching! Thank you for the kind words, great to hear you liked the video!
thank you, i have listened them. but couldn't find difference.
Hi, thanks for watching! Yes, the difference is very subtle!
Itd be interesting to try zener diodes in series facing the opposite direction like some marshall amps have
Thanks for watching! Great idea, didn't think about that one!
Love your channel !
Thank you very much! Really appreciate it!
Excellent
Thank you! Really appreciate it. Hope you enjoyed the video.
Can you amplify resistor noise of different type of resistor ? That would be awesome 😎 I m curious how resistor noise sound like
Wow, that's something I've never thought of. It would definitely be interesting, but I have no idea how to make a pedal circuit that amplifies the resistor's noise...
Hard to distinguish on the single notes, each voice is clearly different when multiple notes are played simultaneously as in chords. I
Thanks for watching! Yes, I felt the same way as well, chords seem to bring out the differences possibly because of the tonal complexity and overtones. Which is why, although quite boring to listen to, I like to play chords when doing shootouts comparing subtle differences.
Si allows more unclipped low end signal.
Ge grabs low turns it into more Plexi green sound
Thanks for watching! Thank you for sharing your tone impressions! I hope you enjoyed the video.
I have definitely found that in a RAT type circuit, I greatly prefer no clipping diodes, but I can tolerate LED diodes. Silicon and germanium are right out, far too much clipping and compression.
Thanks for watching! And thank you for sharing your thoughts and impressions!
I see what you mean about tonal difference. The interesting thing is even when they are not fuzzing out, the germanium seems to tame the highs a bit and soften the attack. Strangely I think in this circuit I am mostly hearing the distortion from the opamp? And the diodes are just smoothing out the tone? Is that right? Are there other circuits where the diodes are doing more of the distorting?
Thanks for checking out this video as well! Yes, the germanium diodes have a unique tone that is spongy, soft, and tames the highs.
Actually, most of the overdrive/distortion you are hearing is coming from the diodes. Specifically when talking about germanium (and silicon) diodes, during sections 4:50 - 5:29 and 14:18 ~ the gain trim pot is set around noon, so the op amp is still pretty clean. At this point, all the distortion you are hearing is coming from the diodes.
When I crank the gain for the LEDs, the op amp starts to clip, but even then, the diodes are doing a lot of clipping. Without getting too technical, when the op amp is clipping, the signal is going between ±4.5 volts (in theory). With the LEDs, that signal gets clipped down to ±2.5 volts, which means its shaving off ±2.0 volts of signal. With germanium diodes, that signal gets clipped down to ±0.3 volts, shaving off ±4.2 volts of signal, which is pretty much most of the signal! Now, this is all what is going on electronically, and what you can hear is a different issue.
But, to answer your question, the diodes are doing a lot of the clipping here. This is a really simple circuit designed to show the difference in diode clipping, so I can't think of other circuits where the diodes are doing more of the distorting.
Hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions!
Go for the red LEDs in my opinion
Thanks for watching! Yes! Trying out different color LEDs and their tones would be a fun comparison for a future video.
do you have a link to the schematic I want to print it out.
Thanks for watching! I don't have any downloads of the schematic, but you should be able to take a screen shot and print it out.
2:50 Si diodes. 5:16 Ge diodes.
Thanks for watching! And thank you for the links, I guess I should make some time stamps for this video : )
To me the silicon diodes seemed to have more of a high pitched white noise along with the initial fundamentals. The led's seemed to be the least I liked in that particular circuit. The germanium diodes seemed to have much less of the high pitched white noise. They sounded Softer with a more rounded edge than their silicon counterparts.
Thanks for watching! And thank you for your analysis! The germanium diodes do seem to have a slightly softer edge, which kind of is in line with germanium vs silicon transistors in fuzz circuits.
@@arito Thank you for doing the comparison & posting the video. If not I might not have ever really been able to hear the differences so easily. Also you showed the germanium diodes having the lowest forward voltage threshold made me think about more about fuzz circuits & starving/biasing the diodes...ie, the dying battery as well. I would be curious if there is a way to soften the reaction of the silicon diodes to make them react somewhat closer to the germanium. Maybe extra resistance? Idk, I am of course not well versed in this but I believe if you could make that happen you would have a great sounding pedal circuit.
@@MAP448 Thank you! I don't know enough about this stuff either, but I'm wondering if the tonal differences between germanium and silicon come down to a material/molecular difference. Meaning, that as a semiconductor, germanium and silicon simply have different properties and thus react differently. In which case, it would be hard to replicate that with resistors etc. Also, there is the element of temperature dependency with germanium, so if I did this same test on a cold winter day, it could very well sound differently...
I heard same thing, But those Guamanian dios are heat, sensitive. I’m trying to stay away from them. The led’s seemed vary responsive to attack.
silicon x4
Thanks for watching! The silicon diodes do sound good.
I Could Send You Soviet Diodes For Comparison. :)
Thanks for watching! And thanks for the offer, I think I'm ok with diodes for now. 😂
It never occurred to me to match forward voltage by using multiple diodes, clever. Silicone sounds good, best crunchiness and fatness. I don't like germainium, they have a high end skanky-trashiness, no throatiness. LED's sound alright. What do you think of zenners, and why didn't they make the lineup pray-tell?
Thanks for watching this one as well! For a moment, I thought about including zener diodes and schottky diodes. But, I decided to stay with the 3 most commonly used diode types in overdrive/distortion pedals.
@@arito Cool, maybe another day when you are short on ideas. (Not like I bet you have many of those!)
@@t.c.494 I definitely have ideas for future videos, but maybe if I can add another spin to this video, I might revisit it!