Brian, the 4558 had pins 5 & 6 installed in the breadboard at an angle, thus affecting the linearity of the electron flow, altering the intra-lead phase coherence, and screwing up the harmonic convergence of the ultra-linear bifet dynamic perambulator that makes the 4558 magical. If you had put it in with the leads straight, it would have vacuumed the shag carpet on the noise floor and not only would it have sounded EXACTLY like a TS, it would have turned your guitar into a Strat and made you sound exactly like SRV. I call foul.
Germanium screams if you squeeze it really tightly, but you have to have special ears to hear it. There are guys in the hi-fi/capacitor rolling world who have had their ears surgically modified specifically for this purpose.
THIS is exactly the kind of NO BS demonstration we need in order to really discern and to really assess gear. Trust your ears and keep ever mindful of the "psycho" in psycho-acoustics. Placebo effects are FOR REAL, guys. Whatever the actual outcome, Brian Wampler cannot be given enough praise for introducing this down-to-earth method (inter-subjective comparison is the foundation of science) - which, obviously is beyond the means of many here, so the value is even greater. I'm sure, we all appreciate that there are differences - just let's concentrate on REAL differences and keep from hair splitting and cork sniffing. Thank you again, Brian, and keep up the good work! P.S. No reasonable person can disagree that anything purple just has to be SUPERIOR…
Dude, what if I told you this video is misleading, and the op amps can make a huge difference, would you believe me, or would you believe Brian, cause he's purple? xD In fact, I agree with this: in the comparisons he made, using just an op amp stage, limited, respectively clipped with single diodes (at low voltage), the model you choose can't make a big difference. However, if you're using op amps as buffers, building a clean boost, or when they are interacting with various other sections (e.g. filters), where the op amp stability, amplitude, (sometimes) impedance and noise matter, you will find there are great differences. I tested quite a bunch of them, on the circuit I am building, which is neither a TS nor a DS, and only two out of six models so far are satisfactory, and these two sound good just differently. One is, indeed, very expensive, and I think the small sound differences from the other one aren't worth it. The unicorn horn powder OPA2132, that is LOL!
100% - Got to give credit to Brian for HIS transparency, even when he's not overdriving. Then again, we don't know if his coffee is plain or ultra-caffeinated.
Most pedal builders are. It's the users who make up the myths about components cause they dont understand the actual circuits. Building your own pedals or amps quickly teaches you that none if it is magic.
My wife and I are both engineers. She designed and built a voice coil actuator, amplifier, and hybrid analog/digital control system to drive one of the mechanisms in here thesis project. She'd find this fascinating.
While I was watching it, I noticed the ring on his left hand and thought, "I wonder if his wife knew when she married him that he'd set up a room in their house for nerding out like that." My guess is she at least wasn't much surprised.
@@johnsalaman503 Mine knows the difference between tube screamer green and sonic distortion green, and maybe more importantly shares the knowledge of properly winding cables cords hoses etc. for long life, and may be best of all, stuff that I would like when she’s out looking through estate sales!!! Keep her? they ought to clone her!
Not dull at all Brian, very imformative comparison! Ive always found the diode comparison tricky because of the volume differences but i agree with you, op-amp or diode differences are subtle ones. Cheers mate!
In this particular application, the differences in diodes are way more noticeable. Some of the Op amps You mention ( 712 ), is designed to amplify very low level input signals with low noise floor, and or or serve better in certain special applications. All these seem to be pretty much in the same family... and very similar in behavior with the circuit You used. Most of the ones You mention I think have been around for a long time. I love LEDs for clipping, as the voltage drop is quite a bit higher, Germanium has a very low V drop, but is also more deeply exponential, over a longer arc, so germanium diodes are nice, when that very small voltage drop is amplified, and the signal fed into them is attenuated.
After viewing countless guitar, amp and pedal reviews and demonstrations on you tube, I can honestly say that this is the coolest video I've seen so far. Instant subscribe.
I had some similar fun one day. Put an 8-pin socket in my TS-9 and an SD-1 and spent the day swapping opamps, everything from a Burr Brown to a TL072 from Radio Shack. Realized after a couple hours that, while differences were there, they were very subtle and nothing “magical” in any one. It was the overall design that made the difference.
Thanks Brian, Have enjoyed the Tumnus and the Sovereign very much from your bench, great work! Your willingness to share your knowledge is unusual and refreshing.
"So you're gonna notice this is - well you may notice, you may not notice!" That pretty much summed up the main point of this video. And for the record, I loved it. There were some tiny differences between the op-amps, but as far as which one to pick, I'd be far more interested in how reliable they are compared to what little sound differences there are.
Great demo, really demystifies some of the stories around ICs and diodes. I ended up with some leftover parts from a synth build and thought maybe I could build a distortion pedal, then I got really wrapped up in trying to figure out which pedal uses which chip and how they're wired, worrying if these spare parts will do the trick. You helped me realize I should just build it on a breadboard, test it out and see how they sound instead!
I absolutely enjoyed this Brian! I love to tinker with electronics. My Dad was an electronics tech (Radio and TV in those days) so I grew up in the late 1950's from day one smelling solder and watching tubes glow. Dad was also a guitar player and so I started playing the guitar at age 5. I played guitar professionally for 35+ years and had some schooling in electronics along the way. So again, I totally enjoyed this video. Now I want to tear open some of my pedals and experiment...lol! Now subbed!
To anyone who would to understand what's going on here in scientific terms: start by googling "frequency response" and "bode plot". The frequency response of a pedal describes how a pedal will change the input signal as a function of frequency. Certain pedals will attenuate/amplify certain harmonics that result in "brighter" or "darker" tone. Changing the harmonics in a specific way creates "distortion", look up "square wave" for this. Distortion is essentially just making the signal more square-like. For this experiment, if you look at the datasheets of several op amps you'll find that most of the characteristics are the same or very similar. What really matters is the surrounding circuitry. Specifically, filtering caused by capacitors and resistors (look up high pass filters, low pass filters, bandpass filters) This is what determines the "color" of your sound. Diodes can also change the sound a little bit depending on where they're placed and their forward voltage. Most of the diodes found in pedals will have very similar characteristics though in which case location matters more (soft clip vs hard clip). Clipping cuts off the peaks of the signal. Hard clipping makes a straight cut which makes it more square and "harsh". Soft clipping is a rounder cut which provides a slightly less harsh distortion similar to how an overdriven tube works. Hope this helped!
Once you learn about this you'll start to realize how much BS goes around in gear circles. Always trust the science and the people who actually make your gear before you trust the guy trying to sell you crap at guitar center.
Also I will tell you that diodes affect clipping type a lot in my amp but it's broken ( very trash sound, I hate it so I am going to replace all caps ( it's rather old amp so possibly electrolyte dried up and causes filters to go haywire ) ). From my experimentation it's best to add different diodes to amp with rotary switch. Insta character change ;) Especially if you mix diodes in ammount and type ( of course it just changes cutoff voltage)
Okay, from a total normie, this was actually SUPER helpful! Thanks to @wamplerpedals for making these videos as kinda the whisk in the pancake batter we call the pedal world, AND. for comments like this one.! Is there anywhere or anything you recommend to a young gun who just wants to learn more about what's in all these metal boxes we stomp on and how to just make some cool shtuff.?
@@jory2973 it's really hard to say. I dropped a ton of money on learning about electronics so all I know is university level text books on circuits. I would maybe start with a hobbyist electronics book then if you're feeling bold you could pick up Electric Circuits by Nilsson. There shouldn't be anything in there that's beyond high school math. It'll explain basic circuits and op amps which is what this video is mostly about.
Brian, this is one of the most informative videos you have made in dispelling all those "pedal myths" that are out there! -a former electronics technician
This is so cool. I've really been loving these breadboard videos recently. Could you ever make a video showing us the whole circuit and what everything in it does?
(Orange was a favorite)Diodes and hitting the circuit with the boost was the most dramatic of the changes. I could tell that there was some tightening of the frequencies when using the expensive op amps -but not by a lot. Didn’t care for the germanium diode clipping. Interesting enough to want to get a bread board and goof around. Reminds me of my electronics kit in the 70’s when I would make noise generators. You truly have the more interesting pedal oriented UA-cam channels. I know it’s older content but I’m glad that you’ve continued this take on pedals. Nothing needs more demystifying than pedals. I wish a boutique amp builder would do the same with amp circuits. You would be a great guest on ‘The truth about Vintage Amps’ to talk about my problem-what makes a good pedal platform. I have amps that sound so so but put a pedal in front and it roars and conversely, a great sounding amp that sounds like dog doo as soon as you hit it with any kind of boost with the exception of a tube screamer types of pedal.
Honestly I really liked just the op amp clipping... sounded fat and rich... Love these type of videos. You hear all the terms when people flog you pedals at stores and online (no disrespect intended Mr Wampler), but to actually see the difference (or how little difference in some cases) these tiny changes make is an eye opener. Proper pedal nerd territory ;oD
Very informative Brian! Your videos are never boring! I enjoy learning things from. You know what you're talking about! I don't have 7 of your pedals for nothing! You make great pedals!
Thanks Brian Im modding my rat2 watching this and I'm glad I found some different diode ideas for my 3-way dpdt. I love how you still help the gear nerd/ diy community. Thanks man. btw your pedals are beautiful inside and out.
You're more correct than the cork sniffers want to admit. I have an original Blues Breaker pedal I put a socket in for just this purpose. It came with a TLO72 but I drank the 4558 Kool-Ade and couldn't let myself sleep until I exhausted all options. I tried almost every one you did here and to my ears the only difference between just a few of them was that some seemed to have mixed more or less direct signal into the overall tone. For that particular pedal a TLO82 was what I liked most.
Man, I really loved this. Especially the part with the different color LEDs. I've replaced diodes with LEDs and been extremely happy with the results, but I just grabbed what was on hand at the time that I wasn't using for other stuff (mostly yellows). But now I wanna throw some blue ones in! I really hope you do some more "boring" videos like this one. This was incredibly cool, so thanks, man!
Wow, so many op-amps to choose from! When I was learning electronics back in the 70's there was the 741 and that was about it! What an exciting time to be alive!
Ha, when I first started playing guitar in 1991, I didn't have an amp, so I got a 741 from radio shack and built a (really crappy) distortion box clipping against the rails and played it through my brother's stereo. The 741 would last a few days before burning up (like I said, it was a really crappy design.)
I've had thoughts of designing some of my own pedals, beginning with overdrives. This is a great place to start. I loved the comparison of the op-amps and diodes. Well done, and thank you.
The Red LED's sounded the best IMO. Obviously the only part of the tone that matters. Ill never buy a pedal with Blue LED's again. Haha, I love this Mr. W, I just got your Euphoria pedal, and absolutely love it. Amazing tone from such a beautifully presented box.
Anyone else think it would be really cool for some pedal maker to use a more sensitive LED clipping diode, and poke them through the housing as part of the aesthetic of the pedal?
Well done! Thank you, I enjoyed hearing this. I did expect to hear greater difference’s, but as you said it’s really the sum of all the parts , the variance and the design.
I'm going to add to your information. The most important feature in the quality of an op amp is the Slew Rate. Slew Rate is the ability of the amp to increase voltage to incoming changes. The 741/1458 is .5 to 2 micro volt Slew Rate. The TLO72 is 7 micro volt Slew Rate. The 5532 is 5 to 13 micro volt Slew Rate (Varies by manufacturer) All the Japanese chips, JRC, NEC, NJM are very old license built chips and fall into the 1 to 2 micro volt Slew Rate range. The higher the slew Rate the more vibrant and detailed the sound will be. The lower the Slew Rate, the more dull and distorted the sound will be. The sound is distorted because the op amp is being fed with too much audio signal and it can't process it, and outputs a distorted signal. Anything additional in the audio line will only color the sound.
This is all true, I THINK I can notice a small difference based on slew rate. IIRC that's the only parameter that varies large enough between common op amp chips. Otherwise most op amps have the same characteristics. The differences you hear from pedals is mostly driven by the surrounding circuitry ie the filter design for the tone control, filters in the op amp feedback loop made with capacitors, clipping characteristics from the forward voltage of diodes etc.
Great video to illustrate how it's all the parts of playing that make the sound. From strings, pick, brain, hands and all in between. Fun in a electronic nerd kinda way. I liked it!
Working on my first build of an overdrive. I really like how the OPA2134PA sounded. Thanks for this video. I work in electronics as a control technician. I play guitar for fun and decided to pick up pedals as a fun hobby.
I have been tuning in for a few weeks now after 2 successful amp builds (MOJOTONE)..I really appreciate the sharing of your knowledge.. I had a Danelectro Fab Tone which came with a used amp I bought years ago.. I had NEVER used the pedal due to the EXXXTREME drive... I watched several of your videos and I was able to tone that pedal down on the circuit board to where it is usable with my 5E3 amps.. Many Thanks Again! Your playing ,sound , and tone are awesome by the way!!!!
Hmmmm, I think, at this point, it's in the fingers. That being said, I came here because of your pal Josh from JHS. I love this stuff, Mr. Wampler! (and, I think you may be a hair better guitar player:).
Fun and informative video! I did an experiment once with a RAT-ish circuit with different clippers... from diodes and LED's JFets and MOSFET's, and combinations of these... and a switch to place them in either the common position after the op-amp or in the feedback loop. This makes a very versatile dirt box, where the position of the clippers makes a lot more difference then the kind of clippers It resulted in a very cool pedal that i still use a lot.
It could just be the iPad speakers, but I didn't hear any difference at all in chips. I've swapped chips in a Boss EQ before though, and the one huge difference I heard (and result I was after) was a noticeable reduction in white noise when the pedal was on. There are differences in chips, but tone is not where you're going to notice it. Noise and headroom are going to be the difference to listen for.
Yeah that's one of the big things with op amps that goes unmentioned a lot of the time, I noticed the same thing when experimenting with op amps. IMO there's a difference in tone but sometimes it can be subtle. I find the difference to be more or less hi fi, or more or less fuzzy, like a different character of grain in the fuzziness of the clipping, depending on what pedal it is.
It was over a year ago that I made the swap. I don't remember the model of chip that was stock that I replaced. But there was a noticeable difference in the noise floor when I was done.
Thanks Brian. This was a great video. I've been learning for the last year or so and you've helped me a ton. This video will get marked for future reference. You rock man. Thank you!!
As soon as he started with those elusive ones 05:12 the sound got wide and less compressed. Currently looking into purchase. I think it's damn dumb to sweat a dollar on parts expense when it translates so well into sweetness.
I’m very happy to hear you all say that because I to am in agreement. I heard the OPA2134’s fidelity a little more fuller than the rest. Just by chance, these are the same ones that were used to mod a peavey studio pro 112 and it sounded amazing! I’m thinking about modding mine. ua-cam.com/video/PkUNVxIhcLk/v-deo.html
Loved this video man! I could watch these types of vids all day and there's little to none around. Idk how you'd do it but showing the massive change the filtering in the circuit makes would be eye opening for alot of people I think. More/less bass into clipping etc... Thanks for the awesome content Brian
For equivalent replacements watch out the different between operational amplifier and a comparator,then there are other parameters but in low frequencies may not alter the result.The LM324 for example has a significant high slew rate time even in very low frequencies around 1KHZ,that means the signal output can not follow the input signal changings and is useful only for very slow speed varying signals in automations.In a general rule dont expect better results compared to the original by simply changing a chip from the pedal,in the best case scenario the result would be exactly the same in the worst no sound at all from this specific function of the pedal.
Thanks for using our song Blue Jay in the intro and outro of this video! Many of the songs on our album feature Wampler Pedals, including: Paisley Drive, Clarksdale Delta Overdrive, Hot Wired v2, Ego Compressor, Faux Tape Echo w/tap, and Velvet Fuzz. Great video as well. Very interesting to those of us who have no idea what magic goes into pedals.
Keyboard player here, im halfway through the video and i gotta say, these all just sound like *a guitar* to me. not sure if that was the point of the video, but thats all ive gotten so far.
The Burr-Brown OPA2134 sounded really cool, the pinch harmonic you got had that character that I really like. Very subtle differences though. Love this channel btw!
***** Hey, you want some really great pedal ideas? 1. An overdrive in a wah pedal design. Being in a top 40 band I am constantly bending over to adjust my gain. It's just not easy to do while playing a song. Help me. 2. A cocked wah pedal. That's right. Take a wah pedal and stick it in a regular box. I love a cocked wah for my solos, but hate trying to find the right setting each time I go into a solo. Ya, I know there are parametric EQ pedals on the market that can do this, but they never sound right. 3. Remember the MuTron Phasor 2? Well, it's way too big for my pedal board, but I love the sound. Maxon made a decent copy, the PH-350, but they are expensive and no longer made. Want more? Make one of these first. I have a 100 more ideas.
I may have already commented on this video, but screw it! I love what Brian does with these videos! I always find myself back to Wampler vids when looking for pedal content. Yeah, I watch them multiple times, what of it? :) Great dude, great sense of humor/down to earth and tons of great info! Thanks Brian!
I miss messing with op-amps and building circuits. I got Craig Anderton's book and built a bunch of his stuff. Later I got a job repairing music gear at a shop. Great video.
I once made a really REALLY simple amplifier circuit using a TL072. Just +/- 5V and non- inverting mode with 2 resistors. Got me a nice and bluesy tube like overdrive! You should try this circuit
Im not a big gear head electrical guy, but I love tone, play guitar, and love your pedals so I find it very interesting how you go about searching for the ultimate tone! I think the bread board video's are great to throw in. Ive been sub'd for awhile now and love your channel. Keep up the good work. Thank you so much Brian!
Fun and very cool. I'd be interested to see the same type of tutorial demonstrating how different component values effect a circuit's EQ stage. Maybe the Big Muff/DS-1 type tone control. ... Thanks for putting in the time on this stuff.
Very good test. Minor dfferences. When I was at the techinical school 35 years ago we had to do these tests over and over. It's nice to see you still using that good old breadboard for clearing things up.
Wow! After being brainwashed by the JRC4558D mantra, I was about to pull out a JRC2043DD out of my early 1982 TS-9. Not any more... thanks for the vid!!
Wish he did back to back comparisons with the same riff fed from a looper pedal. It's impossible to hear the difference with so much time and talking between.
thankls for all this stuff, the breadboarding vids are drastically helpful, I'd like to see a rundown of how the components operate, what they are doing, like a buffer to understand how to start a circuit from scratch? also, delay pedal breadboard PLEEEEASE
Yes because in this circuit, the op-amp is NOT creating the actual distortion, the rest of the circuit is doing soft clipping. Op-amp just amplifies it. If a circuit had depended on pushing op-amps into distortion, then I'd say we'd hear a lot more differences, because each op-amp DOES have different characteristics past the "normal" operational range.
Anybody else really shocked at how different the sound was with different color LED's? I know nothing about this stuff, but that's probably the last thing I would have thought to make a difference.
Color has NOTHING to do with it... well, not directly. Forward voltage, however, does. Difference colors require different amounts of energy to create, of course, and this is reflected by the amount of forward voltage across them. Red having the lowest forward voltage, and blue having the highest. Green in the middle. In this, pink and white will sound the same, as pink has the forward voltage of blue, as it is a color component in the LED. There's really 4 different forward voltage varieties. Red, amber, green, and blue. All other colors are made by mixing the earlier varieties. There's also UV, with an even higher forward voltage than blue, and IR, with an even lower forward voltage than red, but that isn't really relevant in this discussion.
That's exactly right. Hard clipping - British. Soft clipping - American. Why all the kids today are after that hard clipping sound is beyond me. I can't believe how they've flocked to the new British sounding Fender Bassbreaker amps. I hate those things. But a tube Screamer into a Pro Reverb is heaven.
maybe they after a metal sound. For me harder the clipping the more fuzz like it sounds to me. I play style of music that mix of pop punk and chip tunes so I gravitated to low gain fuzz sounds and maybe use some overdrive tones in the future.
the first "expensive" one sounded better than the second one, but they're all pretty much the same. For the really lo-fi gritty ones, I like the LM386. The 4558 sounds pretty damn good too. It's a super subtle difference, and I bet some of these vary equally much within their models as they do compared to other chips. In my ears, it's mostly about clarity, apart from the gain levels of some of them. Great video!
@@ErebosGR Ummm, you really didn’t get the point of the video, did you? Go back and watch it again. Brian is trying to explain to people, such as yourself, who believe there is an audible difference between the transistors he selected. Geez.
@@timeforpudding6338 You're the one who missed the point because you're trying to reduce the argument in black&white, like a typical anti-intellectual. He was trying to dismiss the myth that different opamps sound drastically different, when in reality the differences are a lot more subtle but still noticeable. He even points out how some of them sound compared to one another. Plus, when he was swapping opamps he had soft-clipping diodes, so the opamps weren't overdriven out of their operational ranges. If he had compared them without the diodes (like he showed later on), the sonic differences would've been greater.
Incredible demonstration here. This is why the internet is so cool. Super appreciative of you setting this up (also absolutely love everything wampler I've ever heard fwiw)
Much like you do at the end, I put a good old LPB1 pedal in line before my OD to just add some more saturation with just a little more volume for solos. Always fun playing with transistor and op amp circuits!
You've had the wrong circuit then because germanium fuzzes are the one thing where it actually matters big time. The gains and leakage values are so off the wall you will have to bias each and every one of them right to make them work like they're supposed to. With some circuits you barely get sound at all with the wrong transistor.
I'm a pro audio engineer of 20 years. I gotta tell you if you're looking to check for accurate tonal differences in OPAMPS or any component by feeding it a clipped or distorted sound, you're missing out on all the actual tonal differences, dynamic response, transient response, and any true coloration of your program material because you have already drastically colored it. It's a gain stage. Every gain stage has the potential for drastic tonal changes. I can hear drastic changes between the OPAMPS, and of course diodes. If you send a distorted, clipped, compressed signal to a detailed gain stage, you're not gonna get much tonal variation, especially of a really useful kind. Of course, if all those "guitar players" care about is a heavy distorted sound, then they are missing a lot of the tonal variety and variation and musicality that makes pedals well designed and truly useful, as opposed to a cash grab clone. P.S. I'm a big fan of your pedals and honesty, but this is a very tainted test. Do it again with a super clean boost circuit, then you'll have a much better example of the sound of each gain stage.
+Fable Club thank you, but you're missing the point of the video. 99.9999999999% won't be able to tell a difference in its normal pedal use- as a clipping gain stage.
+Fable Club meant to add, as far as pro audio and purposes outside of guitar, you are correct. However, this isn't the person I'm talking to. I'm talking to guitar players and diy'ers who worry needlessly about what opamp is in their distortion pedal.
+Wampler Pedals Oh yeah, I totally understand that, but for DIYers, they can just as easily be misled if they are told that it doesn't really matter. That can lead to them pigeon holing themselves where all they do is copy other circuits and add to the flood of OD and Fuzz pedals out there that aren't well designed and use cheaper components to increase profit from a business sales perspective. Mac vs. PC, for example. One is designed for mass sales, the other is a clear step above. If we look at some makers who try to eliminate the excess (EQ, filtering, etc.) and maintain a purity of tonal range going in and coming out, then we can move the whole process of design and sales forward, beyond just hip marketing graphic design, quirky pedal names and puns, and overly large boxes to stroke the egos of amateur shoegazers. For every website about science, there's a hundred about porn. That's a natural part of human society, but... Finding a more scientific and clear approach is, in my opinion, a better way for the industry and the DIY community to progress together. Thanks for the conversation, and keep up your great work!
You gotta do quick A/B or A/B/C/D/E cuts. We can't be relying on our memories, going back twenty seconds, let alone 15 minutes to get an honest comparison. It has to be a like-for-like, immediate back-to-back comparison to be worthwhile. I can't tell you how many of these videos I've downloaded, loaded into Logic, and cut up into an A/B-able format, to hear what could've been shown in the video.
Brian, the 4558 had pins 5 & 6 installed in the breadboard at an angle, thus affecting the linearity of the electron flow, altering the intra-lead phase coherence, and screwing up the harmonic convergence of the ultra-linear bifet dynamic perambulator that makes the 4558 magical. If you had put it in with the leads straight, it would have vacuumed the shag carpet on the noise floor and not only would it have sounded EXACTLY like a TS, it would have turned your guitar into a Strat and made you sound exactly like SRV. I call foul.
+Gregory Pease you caught me 😕 .....................😂
LOL!
where tf do you learn this things? teach me pls master!!
Germanium screams if you squeeze it really tightly, but you have to have special ears to hear it. There are guys in the hi-fi/capacitor rolling world who have had their ears surgically modified specifically for this purpose.
are you kidding me?
THIS is exactly the kind of NO BS demonstration we need in order to really discern and to really assess gear. Trust your ears and keep ever mindful of the "psycho" in psycho-acoustics. Placebo effects are FOR REAL, guys.
Whatever the actual outcome, Brian Wampler cannot be given enough praise for introducing this down-to-earth method (inter-subjective comparison is the foundation of science) - which, obviously is beyond the means of many here, so the value is even greater.
I'm sure, we all appreciate that there are differences - just let's concentrate on REAL differences and keep from hair splitting and cork sniffing.
Thank you again, Brian, and keep up the good work!
P.S. No reasonable person can disagree that anything purple just has to be
SUPERIOR…
Dude, what if I told you this video is misleading, and the op amps can make a huge difference, would you believe me, or would you believe Brian, cause he's purple? xD
In fact, I agree with this: in the comparisons he made, using just an op amp stage, limited, respectively clipped with single diodes (at low voltage), the model you choose can't make a big difference.
However, if you're using op amps as buffers, building a clean boost, or when they are interacting with various other sections (e.g. filters), where the op amp stability, amplitude, (sometimes) impedance and noise matter, you will find there are great differences.
I tested quite a bunch of them, on the circuit I am building, which is neither a TS nor a DS, and only two out of six models so far are satisfactory, and these two sound good just differently. One is, indeed, very expensive, and I think the small sound differences from the other one aren't worth it. The unicorn horn powder OPA2132, that is LOL!
I love what you said Jep! the "psycho" in psycho-acoustics!
And that is why I always do any testing of anything as double blind A - B to rule out the placebo effect...
In the great words of TLA: ears before gear!
You have to love how honest and transparent Brian is when it comes to pedals.
100% - Got to give credit to Brian for HIS transparency, even when he's not overdriving. Then again, we don't know if his coffee is plain or ultra-caffeinated.
How would you describe yourself Brian Wampler?? "Transparent"? "Scooped"? "Wooly"? "Earthy"?
43SLOWJOH is ginger a sound description yet?
Put your time where your mouth is!!
Most pedal builders are. It's the users who make up the myths about components cause they dont understand the actual circuits. Building your own pedals or amps quickly teaches you that none if it is magic.
Let's do some direct comparisons!
Dual op-amps (soft-clipping)
1:24 JRC 4580D
1:45 TLC 2262
2:06 OP 275
2:20 TL O62
3:04 LM 833
3:28 JRC 4558D
3:49 LM 358
4:33 4559
5:18 OPA 2604
5:44 AD 712
6:27 OPA 2134PA
7:03 JRC 2043DD
Diodes (hard-clipping)
8:50 4148
9:48 / 9:55 1N192
10:51 BAT46
11:20 BAT41
11:57 blue LEDs
12:31 orange LEDs
12:49 pink LEDs
13:21 red LEDs
14:11 1N34A (Ge)
14:49 no diodes (op-amp clipping itself)
16:06 / 16:19 clean boost into same circuit
Thanks!! LM358 had a Joe Perry type snarl in my opinion. He and Brad Whitford are known for using Klon Centaurs... Could be on to something here.
Thank you for these timestamps! Watched the whole thing but this makes it so much easier to compare.
thx!!
(after the 4558) "here's the 4559. you *may* notice a little more gain."
duh. it's one louder.
Lol.
Unless the op amp is open gain mode, the circuit and feedback resistor ratio control gain... should be the same for all
...but this one goes to 4559
Excellent video. I might suggest to my wife that we watch it together tomorrow night, I'm sure she will share my enthusiasm!!
+Malcolm Cox thanks! Let me know how that goes, lol.... My wife does not appreciate the intricacies of op-amp tonality 😂
My wife and I are both engineers. She designed and built a voice coil actuator, amplifier, and hybrid analog/digital control system to drive one of the mechanisms in here thesis project. She'd find this fascinating.
While I was watching it, I noticed the ring on his left hand and thought, "I wonder if his wife knew when she married him that he'd set up a room in their house for nerding out like that." My guess is she at least wasn't much surprised.
@@Knoxvillemoto She is a keeper. For sure
@@johnsalaman503 Mine knows the difference between tube screamer green and sonic distortion green, and maybe more importantly shares the knowledge of properly winding cables cords hoses etc. for long life, and may be best of all, stuff that I would like when she’s out looking through estate sales!!! Keep her? they ought to clone her!
Not dull at all Brian, very imformative comparison! Ive always found the diode comparison tricky because of the volume differences but i agree with you, op-amp or diode differences are subtle ones. Cheers mate!
In this particular application, the differences in diodes are way more noticeable. Some of the Op amps You mention ( 712 ), is designed to amplify very low level input signals with low noise floor, and or or serve better in certain special applications. All these seem to be pretty much in the same family... and very similar in behavior with the circuit You used. Most of the ones You mention I think have been around for a long time. I love LEDs for clipping, as the voltage drop is quite a bit higher, Germanium has a very low V drop, but is also more deeply exponential, over a longer arc, so germanium diodes are nice, when that very small voltage drop is amplified, and the signal fed into them is attenuated.
This is my favorite video in a long time. From anyone. Thanks for doing this. That was really fun.
After viewing countless guitar, amp and pedal reviews and demonstrations on you tube, I can honestly say that this is the coolest video I've seen so far. Instant subscribe.
I had some similar fun one day. Put an 8-pin socket in my TS-9 and an SD-1 and spent the day swapping opamps, everything from a Burr Brown to a TL072 from Radio Shack. Realized after a couple hours that, while differences were there, they were very subtle and nothing “magical” in any one. It was the overall design that made the difference.
Thanks Brian, Have enjoyed the Tumnus and the Sovereign very much from your bench, great work! Your willingness to share your knowledge is unusual and refreshing.
This is no way boring, I don't get much of this stuff, but you are clear and help me understand it better
"So you're gonna notice this is - well you may notice, you may not notice!"
That pretty much summed up the main point of this video. And for the record, I loved it. There were some tiny differences between the op-amps, but as far as which one to pick, I'd be far more interested in how reliable they are compared to what little sound differences there are.
Dull? Hell no. I didn't blink through your whole video. Gotta do more like this. Different types, chorus, tremolo, etc...Thanks Brian!
Great demo, really demystifies some of the stories around ICs and diodes. I ended up with some leftover parts from a synth build and thought maybe I could build a distortion pedal, then I got really wrapped up in trying to figure out which pedal uses which chip and how they're wired, worrying if these spare parts will do the trick. You helped me realize I should just build it on a breadboard, test it out and see how they sound instead!
Great technique! Yes You learn by experimentation, and observation, using ears, and instruments.
Thanks for taking the time to make this video, it's one of the most honest comparisons of components I've seen. Keep telling it like it is Brian!
I don't know the first thing about electronics & can barely solder a pickup in place, but I found this quite intetesting.
I absolutely enjoyed this Brian! I love to tinker with electronics. My Dad was an electronics tech (Radio and TV in those days) so I grew up in the late 1950's from day one smelling solder and watching tubes glow. Dad was also a guitar player and so I started playing the guitar at age 5. I played guitar professionally for 35+ years and had some schooling in electronics along the way. So again, I totally enjoyed this video. Now I want to tear open some of my pedals and experiment...lol! Now subbed!
To anyone who would to understand what's going on here in scientific terms: start by googling "frequency response" and "bode plot".
The frequency response of a pedal describes how a pedal will change the input signal as a function of frequency. Certain pedals will attenuate/amplify certain harmonics that result in "brighter" or "darker" tone. Changing the harmonics in a specific way creates "distortion", look up "square wave" for this. Distortion is essentially just making the signal more square-like.
For this experiment, if you look at the datasheets of several op amps you'll find that most of the characteristics are the same or very similar. What really matters is the surrounding circuitry. Specifically, filtering caused by capacitors and resistors (look up high pass filters, low pass filters, bandpass filters) This is what determines the "color" of your sound.
Diodes can also change the sound a little bit depending on where they're placed and their forward voltage. Most of the diodes found in pedals will have very similar characteristics though in which case location matters more (soft clip vs hard clip).
Clipping cuts off the peaks of the signal. Hard clipping makes a straight cut which makes it more square and "harsh". Soft clipping is a rounder cut which provides a slightly less harsh distortion similar to how an overdriven tube works.
Hope this helped!
Once you learn about this you'll start to realize how much BS goes around in gear circles. Always trust the science and the people who actually make your gear before you trust the guy trying to sell you crap at guitar center.
EXCELLENT post! 👍🏻
Also I will tell you that diodes affect clipping type a lot in my amp but it's broken ( very trash sound, I hate it so I am going to replace all caps ( it's rather old amp so possibly electrolyte dried up and causes filters to go haywire ) ).
From my experimentation it's best to add different diodes to amp with rotary switch. Insta character change ;) Especially if you mix diodes in ammount and type ( of course it just changes cutoff voltage)
Okay, from a total normie, this was actually SUPER helpful! Thanks to @wamplerpedals for making these videos as kinda the whisk in the pancake batter we call the pedal world, AND. for comments like this one.! Is there anywhere or anything you recommend to a young gun who just wants to learn more about what's in all these metal boxes we stomp on and how to just make some cool shtuff.?
@@jory2973 it's really hard to say. I dropped a ton of money on learning about electronics so all I know is university level text books on circuits.
I would maybe start with a hobbyist electronics book then if you're feeling bold you could pick up Electric Circuits by Nilsson. There shouldn't be anything in there that's beyond high school math. It'll explain basic circuits and op amps which is what this video is mostly about.
Brian, this is one of the most informative videos you have made in dispelling all those "pedal myths" that are out there!
-a former electronics technician
You gotta love that the pink LED sounded more different to the other LEDs than *any* of the op amps did among each other.
I love this type of demo. As an EE and guitar player I find it very educational. Thanks & keep it up!
Hey Brian...I have to say...I truly enjoyed this clip....awesome job...:)
This is so cool. I've really been loving these breadboard videos recently. Could you ever make a video showing us the whole circuit and what everything in it does?
"I know this isn't the greatest circuit in the world..." - *Procedes to play some amazing sounding tones*
(Orange was a favorite)Diodes and hitting the circuit with the boost was the most dramatic of the changes. I could tell that there was some tightening of the frequencies when using the expensive op amps -but not by a lot. Didn’t care for the germanium diode clipping. Interesting enough to want to get a bread board and goof around. Reminds me of my electronics kit in the 70’s when I would make noise generators. You truly have the more interesting pedal oriented UA-cam channels. I know it’s older content but I’m glad that you’ve continued this take on pedals. Nothing needs more demystifying than pedals. I wish a boutique amp builder would do the same with amp circuits. You would be a great guest on ‘The truth about Vintage Amps’ to talk about my problem-what makes a good pedal platform. I have amps that sound so so but put a pedal in front and it roars and conversely, a great sounding amp that sounds like dog doo as soon as you hit it with any kind of boost with the exception of a tube screamer types of pedal.
Honestly I really liked just the op amp clipping... sounded fat and rich...
Love these type of videos. You hear all the terms when people flog you pedals at stores and online (no disrespect intended Mr Wampler), but to actually see the difference (or how little difference in some cases) these tiny changes make is an eye opener.
Proper pedal nerd territory ;oD
This video is fantastic. I really enjoy your channel Brian.
Very informative Brian! Your videos are never boring! I enjoy learning things from. You know what you're talking about! I don't have 7 of your pedals for nothing! You make great pedals!
+Tone Doctor thanks so much!
JHS Pedals sent me here. I really enjoyed this. I got a huge smile on my face when you put the LEDs into the circuit. Very cool stuff.
I caught my girlfriend with an LM324. She had to go.
beeeeee-atch. you did the right thing.
that's because the LM324 is cheap and compensate with trickery.
I caught my wife with a red dot nkt. I said we only use 2n in this house and you a divorce. Its for the best
Won the internet. Right here!
Thanks Brian Im modding my rat2 watching this and I'm glad I found some different diode ideas for my 3-way dpdt. I love how you still help the gear nerd/ diy community. Thanks man. btw your pedals are beautiful inside and out.
You're more correct than the cork sniffers want to admit. I have an original Blues Breaker pedal I put a socket in for just this purpose. It came with a TLO72 but I drank the 4558 Kool-Ade and couldn't let myself sleep until I exhausted all options. I tried almost every one you did here and to my ears the only difference between just a few of them was that some seemed to have mixed more or less direct signal into the overall tone. For that particular pedal a TLO82 was what I liked most.
Man, I really loved this. Especially the part with the different color LEDs. I've replaced diodes with LEDs and been extremely happy with the results, but I just grabbed what was on hand at the time that I wasn't using for other stuff (mostly yellows). But now I wanna throw some blue ones in!
I really hope you do some more "boring" videos like this one. This was incredibly cool, so thanks, man!
Wow, so many op-amps to choose from! When I was learning electronics back in the 70's there was the 741 and that was about it! What an exciting time to be alive!
We had the 739, and then there was the 741 that was everywhere! The old MXR Distortion + used a 741. Noisy as an old ham radio.
check dicrete op amps and your mind will be blown away
discrete opamps are pointless I think, just checkout OPA1612 and other current high performance audio opamps.
lol
Ha, when I first started playing guitar in 1991, I didn't have an amp, so I got a 741 from radio shack and built a (really crappy) distortion box clipping against the rails and played it through my brother's stereo. The 741 would last a few days before burning up (like I said, it was a really crappy design.)
I've had thoughts of designing some of my own pedals, beginning with overdrives. This is a great place to start. I loved the comparison of the op-amps and diodes. Well done, and thank you.
The Red LED's sounded the best IMO. Obviously the only part of the tone that matters. Ill never buy a pedal with Blue LED's again.
Haha, I love this Mr. W, I just got your Euphoria pedal, and absolutely love it. Amazing tone from such a beautifully presented box.
Omg, this is so enlightening! I'll watch anything like this multiple times - so fun to see an objective comparison of different components like this.
What if you used white LEDs and painted them purple? How would that sound? ;-)
I think it is fair to say just about anything painted purple is better.
What if you connected it to a gain pot that went up to 11?
Actually, the tone would be warmer because the paint would cause the diode to run at a higher temperature. You know it's true!
That is exactly what Prince did back in the days... no kiddin'
there are no white LED's. the white light is a mix of red, blue and green
Thanks Brian, i really enjoy mucking about with guitar effects and find these kinds of vids fascinating.
Anyone else think it would be really cool for some pedal maker to use a more sensitive LED clipping diode, and poke them through the housing as part of the aesthetic of the pedal?
I'm starting to study pedal making and I'm planning to do that 😂
Or put sensors on an LED to use it as the LED in a Univibe
Very cool, great insight into how different diodes effect the tonal quality of an overdrive chip.
Thanks for making this, I do find this very interesting.
Well done! Thank you, I enjoyed hearing this. I did expect to hear greater difference’s, but as you said it’s really the sum of all the parts , the variance and the design.
I'm going to add to your information. The most important feature in the quality of an op amp is the Slew Rate. Slew Rate is the ability of the amp to increase voltage to incoming changes.
The 741/1458 is .5 to 2 micro volt Slew Rate.
The TLO72 is 7 micro volt Slew Rate.
The 5532 is 5 to 13 micro volt Slew Rate (Varies by manufacturer)
All the Japanese chips, JRC, NEC, NJM are very old license built chips and fall into the 1 to 2 micro volt Slew Rate range.
The higher the slew Rate the more vibrant and detailed the sound will be. The lower
the Slew Rate, the more dull and distorted the sound will be. The sound is distorted because the op amp is being fed with too much audio signal and it can't process it, and outputs a distorted signal. Anything additional in the audio line will only color the sound.
This is all true, I THINK I can notice a small difference based on slew rate. IIRC that's the only parameter that varies large enough between common op amp chips. Otherwise most op amps have the same characteristics. The differences you hear from pedals is mostly driven by the surrounding circuitry ie the filter design for the tone control, filters in the op amp feedback loop made with capacitors, clipping characteristics from the forward voltage of diodes etc.
Great video to illustrate how it's all the parts of playing that make the sound.
From strings, pick, brain, hands and all in between. Fun in a electronic nerd kinda way. I liked it!
Working on my first build of an overdrive. I really like how the OPA2134PA sounded. Thanks for this video. I work in electronics as a control technician. I play guitar for fun and decided to pick up pedals as a fun hobby.
Me too..
Cheerss
I'm a fan of the BB OPA2134 also. One of the best substitutes for a 4558 (less noise, and way better specs).
@@dmoore0079 it worked really well. I have a bunch of robert keeley pedals. I enjoyed learning how to do this. I still make pedals occasionally
I have been tuning in for a few weeks now after 2 successful amp builds (MOJOTONE)..I really appreciate the sharing of your knowledge.. I had a Danelectro Fab Tone which came with a used amp I bought years ago.. I had NEVER used the pedal due to the EXXXTREME drive... I watched several of your videos and I was able to tone that pedal down on the circuit board to where it is usable with my 5E3 amps.. Many Thanks Again! Your playing ,sound , and tone are awesome by the way!!!!
Hmmmm, I think, at this point, it's in the fingers. That being said, I came here because of your pal Josh from JHS. I love this stuff, Mr. Wampler! (and, I think you may be a hair better guitar player:).
Fun and informative video!
I did an experiment once with a RAT-ish circuit with different
clippers... from diodes and LED's JFets and MOSFET's, and combinations
of these... and a switch to place them in either the common position
after the op-amp or in the feedback loop.
This makes a very versatile dirt box, where the position of the clippers makes a lot more difference then the kind of clippers
It resulted in a very cool pedal that i still use a lot.
It could just be the iPad speakers, but I didn't hear any difference at all in chips. I've swapped chips in a Boss EQ before though, and the one huge difference I heard (and result I was after) was a noticeable reduction in white noise when the pedal was on. There are differences in chips, but tone is not where you're going to notice it. Noise and headroom are going to be the difference to listen for.
Yeah that's one of the big things with op amps that goes unmentioned a lot of the time, I noticed the same thing when experimenting with op amps. IMO there's a difference in tone but sometimes it can be subtle. I find the difference to be more or less hi fi, or more or less fuzzy, like a different character of grain in the fuzziness of the clipping, depending on what pedal it is.
thisdyingsoul76
Hi, what chip is quieter then, lm833n?
It was over a year ago that I made the swap. I don't remember the model of chip that was stock that I replaced. But there was a noticeable difference in the noise floor when I was done.
thisdyingsoul76 hmm, very very interesting
With a high end stereo you're able to hear a myriad of effects that these different chips provide
Thanks Brian. This was a great video. I've been learning for the last year or so and you've helped me a ton. This video will get marked for future reference. You rock man. Thank you!!
The OPA2134 sounded the best. Most sounded pretty much the same but there is a dynamic with that chip that sounds rather good.
As soon as he started with those elusive ones 05:12 the sound got wide and less compressed. Currently looking into purchase. I think it's damn dumb to sweat a dollar on parts expense when it translates so well into sweetness.
I thought the same thing. The OPA2134 stands out in particular. imagine the anger people would have if you modded a TS9 with one.
I’m very happy to hear you all say that because I to am in agreement. I heard the OPA2134’s fidelity a little more fuller than the rest. Just by chance, these are the same ones that were used to mod a peavey studio pro 112 and it sounded amazing! I’m thinking about modding mine.
ua-cam.com/video/PkUNVxIhcLk/v-deo.html
Loved this video man! I could watch these types of vids all day and there's little to none around. Idk how you'd do it but showing the massive change the filtering in the circuit makes would be eye opening for alot of people I think. More/less bass into clipping etc... Thanks for the awesome content Brian
+wreckoningday thanks! And good use for a video 😊👍🏻
that is seriously the best guitar gear video I have ever seen. case closed, myth busted, feelings hurt.
For equivalent replacements watch out the different between operational amplifier and a comparator,then there are other parameters but in low frequencies may not alter the result.The LM324 for example has a significant high slew rate time even in very low frequencies around 1KHZ,that means the signal output can not follow the input signal changings and is useful only for very slow speed varying signals in automations.In a general rule dont expect better results compared to the original by simply changing a chip from the pedal,in the best case scenario the result would be exactly the same in the worst no sound at all from this specific function of the pedal.
not boaring at all.solid help Brother.God Bless
Thanks for using our song Blue Jay in the intro and outro of this video! Many of the songs on our album feature Wampler Pedals, including: Paisley Drive, Clarksdale Delta Overdrive, Hot Wired v2, Ego Compressor, Faux Tape Echo w/tap, and Velvet Fuzz. Great video as well. Very interesting to those of us who have no idea what magic goes into pedals.
Keyboard player here, im halfway through the video and i gotta say, these all just sound like *a guitar* to me. not sure if that was the point of the video, but thats all ive gotten so far.
The Burr-Brown OPA2134 sounded really cool, the pinch harmonic you got had that character that I really like. Very subtle differences though. Love this channel btw!
I really enjoy these types of videos.
you should get out in the sun more. just sayin
Hey!!! Some of us nerds prefer to have this grayish-pale skin color to a florida-like sun tan! Society is really complex...
It's winter weather here right now.
***** Hey, you want some really great pedal ideas?
1. An overdrive in a wah pedal design. Being in a top 40 band I am constantly bending over to adjust my gain. It's just not easy to do while playing a song. Help me.
2. A cocked wah pedal. That's right. Take a wah pedal and stick it in a regular box. I love a cocked wah for my solos, but hate trying to find the right setting each time I go into a solo.
Ya, I know there are parametric EQ pedals on the market that can do this, but they never sound right.
3. Remember the MuTron Phasor 2? Well, it's way too big for my pedal board, but I love the sound. Maxon made a decent copy, the PH-350, but they are expensive and no longer made.
Want more? Make one of these first. I have a 100 more ideas.
LARRY have you seen the cock fight pedal? you can set the postion with knobs and the ability to use an expression pedal as well.
I may have already commented on this video, but screw it! I love what Brian does with these videos! I always find myself back to Wampler vids when looking for pedal content. Yeah, I watch them multiple times, what of it? :) Great dude, great sense of humor/down to earth and tons of great info! Thanks Brian!
Ain't got a clue what's going on in here, but, you build them, we buy them!
Really insightful little demo. Thanks Brian.
I miss messing with op-amps and building circuits. I got Craig Anderton's book and built a bunch of his stuff. Later I got a job repairing music gear at a shop. Great video.
here's the book: www.amazon.com/Electronic-Projects-Musicians-Craig-Anderton/dp/0825695023
I once made a really REALLY simple amplifier circuit using a TL072. Just +/- 5V and non- inverting mode with 2 resistors. Got me a nice and bluesy tube like overdrive! You should try this circuit
Brian, from this day onward, I demand that all your pedals take the diodes you called "fancy schmancy." No more cutting corners, please.
;)
;)
Im not a big gear head electrical guy, but I love tone, play guitar, and love your pedals so I find it very interesting how you go about searching for the ultimate tone! I think the bread board video's are great to throw in. Ive been sub'd for awhile now and love your channel. Keep up the good work. Thank you so much Brian!
didn't understand anything at all, but cool!
Awesome video! I love hanging out in your shop like this!
When you're designing a circuit, how do you prevent your ears get fatigued? And, how do you avoid duplicating the sound of previous designs?
+Alan Parkinson every 30 minutes I do something else that is somewhere quiet
I do the same when writing songs take a 5 min break
Use proper test equipment, far better than ears, and no comfirmation bias.
Fun and very cool. I'd be interested to see the same type of tutorial demonstrating how different component values effect a circuit's EQ stage. Maybe the Big Muff/DS-1 type tone control. ... Thanks for putting in the time on this stuff.
how about some circuit schematics i've got plenty of parts!
Very good test. Minor dfferences. When I was at the techinical school 35 years ago we had to do these tests over and over. It's nice to see you still using that good old breadboard for clearing things up.
Maybe you should sell a Wampler bread board kit. It could 2 or 3 choices of OP amp etc. so we can experiment ourselves.
Or you could just use a socket in the PCB...
"Hard clipping to ground" sounded awesome! Please build me a "hard clip '17 " and I'm good. Lol
Wow! After being brainwashed by the JRC4558D mantra, I was about to pull out a JRC2043DD out of my early 1982 TS-9. Not any more... thanks for the vid!!
super great video! I just bought the Wampler Dual Fusion and am really enjoying the world of Wampler...
Wish he did back to back comparisons with the same riff fed from a looper pedal. It's impossible to hear the difference with so much time and talking between.
But honestly, you can't hear a difference if they don't sound different...
thankls for all this stuff, the breadboarding vids are drastically helpful, I'd like to see a rundown of how the components operate, what they are doing, like a buffer to understand how to start a circuit from scratch? also, delay pedal breadboard PLEEEEASE
LM833 and opa2134 sound different to my ears in a pleasant way, the rest... pretty the same.
Thank you for demoing Brian!
Lm833 brownsound
I'm starting out learning about guitar pedals, and this video was super helpful. Thank you so much.
In conclusion op amps sound the same.
Yes because in this circuit, the op-amp is NOT creating the actual distortion, the rest of the circuit is doing soft clipping. Op-amp just amplifies it. If a circuit had depended on pushing op-amps into distortion, then I'd say we'd hear a lot more differences, because each op-amp DOES have different characteristics past the "normal" operational range.
I was just about to change the chips in my amp because I was told the new set would sound better. I thing I will leave things alone
In soft clipping pedals op-amp is no more important to the tone than the colour of the box.
@Tong Zou Of course they could :)
@@EvilDragon666 evil dragon! You’re everywhere
Brian, more like this please,go into detail. thanks
Anybody else really shocked at how different the sound was with different color LED's? I know nothing about this stuff, but that's probably the last thing I would have thought to make a difference.
There was - but the hearing memory is short and he is yapping so much inbetween so i bet 80% of the listeners missed it completely, but hey!
Forward voltage I think. Could be wrong, it might be the color. 😂😂
Color has NOTHING to do with it... well, not directly. Forward voltage, however, does. Difference colors require different amounts of energy to create, of course, and this is reflected by the amount of forward voltage across them. Red having the lowest forward voltage, and blue having the highest. Green in the middle.
In this, pink and white will sound the same, as pink has the forward voltage of blue, as it is a color component in the LED.
There's really 4 different forward voltage varieties. Red, amber, green, and blue. All other colors are made by mixing the earlier varieties.
There's also UV, with an even higher forward voltage than blue, and IR, with an even lower forward voltage than red, but that isn't really relevant in this discussion.
Red and orange were mostly opamp distortion, they were hardly conducting.
Excellent. Thank you very much for making this video. It put some of the great myths to sleep.
Is it me but does the hard clipping sounds more Marshally and the soft clipping more like a fender or supro amp with power amp drive?
That's exactly right. Hard clipping - British. Soft clipping - American. Why all the kids today are after that hard clipping sound is beyond me. I can't believe how they've flocked to the new British sounding Fender Bassbreaker amps. I hate those things. But a tube Screamer into a Pro Reverb is heaven.
maybe they after a metal sound. For me harder the clipping the more fuzz like it sounds to me. I play style of music that mix of pop punk and chip tunes so I gravitated to low gain fuzz sounds and maybe use some overdrive tones in the future.
Yes, it's you. LOL
Man that was fun!!! Great stuff Brian
the first "expensive" one sounded better than the second one, but they're all pretty much the same. For the really lo-fi gritty ones, I like the LM386. The 4558 sounds pretty damn good too. It's a super subtle difference, and I bet some of these vary equally much within their models as they do compared to other chips. In my ears, it's mostly about clarity, apart from the gain levels of some of them. Great video!
Agreed. The good old LM386 sounded great in this circuit.
LM386 is my favourite ever.
This is like an amp shootout!!!. Very good and informative!
I've been standing in front of a Big Marshall for too many years. It all sounds the about same Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Dude, that was the point of the video. THEY ALL SOUND THE SAME.
@@timeforpudding6338 No, they don't sound the same. If they do to you, you either have hearing loss or not good enough headphones/speakers.
@@ErebosGR Ummm, you really didn’t get the point of the video, did you? Go back and watch it again. Brian is trying to explain to people, such as yourself, who believe there is an audible difference between the transistors he selected. Geez.
@@timeforpudding6338 You're the one who missed the point because you're trying to reduce the argument in black&white, like a typical anti-intellectual.
He was trying to dismiss the myth that different opamps sound drastically different, when in reality the differences are a lot more subtle but still noticeable. He even points out how some of them sound compared to one another.
Plus, when he was swapping opamps he had soft-clipping diodes, so the opamps weren't overdriven out of their operational ranges. If he had compared them without the diodes (like he showed later on), the sonic differences would've been greater.
@@timeforpudding6338 If you want to go technical, you can research how the opamp's slew rate affects its frequency response.
Incredible demonstration here. This is why the internet is so cool. Super appreciative of you setting this up (also absolutely love everything wampler I've ever heard fwiw)
should let people vote on components and then make a pedal based on that for sale
Much like you do at the end, I put a good old LPB1 pedal in line before my OD to just add some more saturation with just a little more volume for solos. Always fun playing with transistor and op amp circuits!
I've done this with several germanium transistors and it was a lesson in BS..
You've had the wrong circuit then because germanium fuzzes are the one thing where it actually matters big time. The gains and leakage values are so off the wall you will have to bias each and every one of them right to make them work like they're supposed to. With some circuits you barely get sound at all with the wrong transistor.
Loved it. It was a great test for my ears I heard some slight differences in the op amps. Really interesting thanks Brian ;)
The only differences I hear aren't in tone, but the attack.
Nice, could hear the difference. Surprised that even the LEDs made a difference. Thanks!
I'm a pro audio engineer of 20 years. I gotta tell you if you're looking to check for accurate tonal differences in OPAMPS or any component by feeding it a clipped or distorted sound, you're missing out on all the actual tonal differences, dynamic response, transient response, and any true coloration of your program material because you have already drastically colored it.
It's a gain stage. Every gain stage has the potential for drastic tonal changes. I can hear drastic changes between the OPAMPS, and of course diodes. If you send a distorted, clipped, compressed signal to a detailed gain stage, you're not gonna get much tonal variation, especially of a really useful kind.
Of course, if all those "guitar players" care about is a heavy distorted sound, then they are missing a lot of the tonal variety and variation and musicality that makes pedals well designed and truly useful, as opposed to a cash grab clone.
P.S. I'm a big fan of your pedals and honesty, but this is a very tainted test. Do it again with a super clean boost circuit, then you'll have a much better example of the sound of each gain stage.
+Fable Club thank you, but you're missing the point of the video. 99.9999999999% won't be able to tell a difference in its normal pedal use- as a clipping gain stage.
+Fable Club meant to add, as far as pro audio and purposes outside of guitar, you are correct. However, this isn't the person I'm talking to. I'm talking to guitar players and diy'ers who worry needlessly about what opamp is in their distortion pedal.
+Wampler Pedals Oh yeah, I totally understand that, but for DIYers, they can just as easily be misled if they are told that it doesn't really matter.
That can lead to them pigeon holing themselves where all they do is copy other circuits and add to the flood of OD and Fuzz pedals out there that aren't well designed and use cheaper components to increase profit from a business sales perspective.
Mac vs. PC, for example. One is designed for mass sales, the other is a clear step above.
If we look at some makers who try to eliminate the excess (EQ, filtering, etc.) and maintain a purity of tonal range going in and coming out, then we can move the whole process of design and sales forward, beyond just hip marketing graphic design, quirky pedal names and puns, and overly large boxes to stroke the egos of amateur shoegazers.
For every website about science, there's a hundred about porn. That's a natural part of human society, but...
Finding a more scientific and clear approach is, in my opinion, a better way for the industry and the DIY community to progress together.
Thanks for the conversation, and keep up your great work!
Fable Club: That might depend on which Mac or PC you're referring to.
You gotta do quick A/B or A/B/C/D/E cuts. We can't be relying on our memories, going back twenty seconds, let alone 15 minutes to get an honest comparison. It has to be a like-for-like, immediate back-to-back comparison to be worthwhile.
I can't tell you how many of these videos I've downloaded, loaded into Logic, and cut up into an A/B-able format, to hear what could've been shown in the video.