We just picked up 4 Bassboss dv12’s and couldn’t be happier... they have a 120° H x 20°V dispersion that gives an incredibly wide coverage area... the narrow vertical dispersion also helps a lot with room reflections, and the cabinets can be arrayed together inverted to couple the waveguide horns with adjustable brackets to change vertical dispersion from 20° to around 50° I think? Haven’t had them configured like that yet but looking forward to it. I do really like the adjustable bracket with this Martin speaker too... excellent choice for your needs! Thanks for the video I feel like so many other people out there don’t pay attention to these kind of specs!
Personally I actually really don't like that design, not to mention the LF driver isn't horn loaded so it isn't getting the same control that the HF driver is. Also, while you will get some help with reverb from the narrow vertical dispersion, the wide horizontal dispersion can be a huge issue in reverberant spaces. For example, long, narrow rooms will be horribly reverberant with a really wide dispersion like that. Personally, I prefer standard dispersions, with the widest horizontal dispersion being 100 degrees.
I have two of these, and when your using them hard they don't hurt your ears as the sound only goes forward the boxes are dead sound reason why heavy. the have a safety net in them as well if you use a microphone they have a auto cut off for fed back. they can do a lot more then what these guys say they do . the four buttons are presets the speakers have their limits turned on so they are not running full power. I use them with two Neos 21" subs. we would use 10 of them just running the danta card, Avantis digital mixer from Allen & Heath they also do nice celling speakers great for home theaters or the CDD5 - 6 or 8 If in New Zealand contact Jansen Pro Audio they cover the whole range and many other things over 60 years in the pro industry. good video guys
The "camera guy" saves your content. Love him, other guy rambles more than i do - and i'm autistic... Learned some new knowledge about the conical stuffs. Thanks guys! (Just meant that the camera guy is better at streamlined communication than the first) And pardon me for not knowing names.
Coverage aside, your tuning adjustments of the SM80 show cuts in areas where maybe the vocals reside in the music that was played. The boosts in the CDD Live frequency tunings may affect those same areas in a positive way. Those 1k-10+k boosts tend to be harsh on most conventional speakers in my opinion.
The tuning adjustments resulted in the sm80 and CDD live 15 sounding essentially the same. It illustrates that the CDD live 15 sound (to us) really pretty great out of the box and needed very little adjustment to get how we wanted it in the room, whereas the sm80 needed a lot more work to get it how we wanted it in the room. In the end they both sounded good (as long as you were in coverage of the sm80s), and very similar, *after* the adjustments
Thanks for the ETX plug.....I bought a used pair of ETX15P and they perform very well......Will you continue to use the same sub configuration with the Martins ? Any GIG Logs coming with the new speakers ...?
Like we said in the video, the Martins don't compare to our ETX system, they compare directly to the SM80s. So no, we won't regularly be using the CDDs with the 18SP subs.
Great product, surely (never was ablr to hear any M-A CDD-Live speakwers, sadly). For the price -- in the USA this one costs right at USD $ 3000. I could only find one dealer, Full Compass, who lists it, it's just they don't have it. In Europe, Thomann or Thomann Music do not carry any Martin-Audio products. They do have something similar from LD Systems. Class-D amplifiers, active design, 15-inch coaxial woofer. Cost: 359. Best of luck in your shopping ventures.
We are also a dealer for Martin, we became one because we like the CDD and Wavefront Precision so much. While we don't carry the CDD Live for $359, we can certainly work with the price more than Full Compass! That being said, we also don't have any in stock, they are super back ordered
You guys still running the CDD-Live 15's? Would love to see a full review sometime and/or hear your thoughts on the ideal pro grade (not MI) top speakers for school events,
We still use them all the time, and continue to love them. We might even like them more now than when we first got them For general school dances, these are still reasonably the best choice considering all the factors. However, if you are approaching 1000 students at an event somewhat regularly, you should probably consider a larger system overall, like WPM That being said, it all depends on your standards for how loud your event needs to be. CDD Live 15 can objectively replace QSC KLA, and we feel that they even replace JBL VRX because while VRX is louder on paper, after having used it, it starts to have such a signficiant tonal change at high volumes that it's real-world not any louder than KLA or CDD Live 15 anyway So, if you were to see a QSC KLA system with 3 boxes per side at a 1000 person homecoming and conclude that system is plenty powerful, then CDD Live 15 is perfect for you, *with one more consideration*. CDD Live 15 is so much cleaner than KLA that it *sounds* quieter, even though it's ultimate dB output is the same. If you want your system to *sound* loud even if it's not actually that loud, then this is not the speaker for you
@@dougberry4674 Thanks so much for the insight! This is helpful. Glad to hear the CDD's are serving you well. VRX932LAP's are on the radar, but at 6a per box, that's the equivalent of running 3 KLA's. For reference, I'm usually limited to four or five circuits for _everything_ . Not sure there would be much benefit switching to a full KLA rig either without getting a bunch of them. Also, KLA/VRX are both 10+ year old designs, so I'm a bit wary to invest now when these product lines could get updated soon, or if there's something better after a decade of innovation. They've certainly proven to be reliable though. Most dances are between 400-900 students. There's been some football games where it's +/- 1000 in the stands, but mainly playing for the student section up front. So these event sizes are right on the threshold. It's tough to shop for pro-grade gear because demos aren't as simple as going to a music store, and ordering online without hearing the speakers first is risky at this pricepoint 🙃
@@BrianDiener Your average event size is very similar to ours when we bought CDD Live 15, and having used them at everything from 100 people in a small club where we had tons of headroom, to an outdoor coverband event for 2000+ where they were loud enough *for the event* (obviously not remotely loud enough for an actual concert at that size), we have been super happy with every size audience we tried them at If I were you, considering the size and style events you're doing, I would definitely go with CDD Live 15. Just make sure you deploy them at a proper height, the easiest thing being with something like a pair of DT-PRO4000s as ultra heavy duty speaker stands If you're in the US, send us an email and we'd love to get you a quote! We are also dealers for JBL and QSC if you decide to do that route, but just to say it one last time, judging on my personal experience which I think relates to you, I think you would be happiest with CDD Live 15 just like us
I’ve been looking at the SM80s for weddings. I’ve heard they could easily cover a room 150, wide, for up for 650ish guests. How do you think these Martins match up? Could I cover a room that wide with just two tops? And if so, any subwoofers you’d recommend? Thanks!
Simply no chance sm80s would cover a room that wide. The CDDs are vastly wider than sm80s. They may do it, but even that may be a stretch. In any case, we highly recommend the CDD Live 15s over the SM80s, that's why we switched ourselves! The SXP218 is the ideal sub to pair with the CDD Live 15s. If you're in the US, email me for a quote! doug@slmentertainment.com
You could do a center cluster of the SM80's if you're running a front truss and achieve 160° wide. That'd probably do it. The SM80's have great intelligibility at distance, as demonstrated by a ton of user videos on UA-cam. The Martins can't just be "better" than the SM80's with a similar dispersion pattern at hitting a wide room if both setups have an LR placement. If one can't cover wide, neither can the other because it's physically not covering those areas.
yes they can you should always use subs regardless. and it does not hurt to run rear speakers as this means the volume level can be lower making for a better taking environment and when the party starts up, turn up the front of house up only. by using a sub this means the the tops can run as mid so they don't work hard as bass kills any speakers including the CDD live15 if your doing hard core music then you should use a linoray system. the subs best used are the CDD LIve15 are the cdd live double21" or single 21" as the 18" has to work to hard to keep up up the cddlive15 the double 18" is ok
We make our own custom length cables for passive speakers and line arrays. much easier then having to deal with the provided cable (majority of the time, they aren't the best quality, sometimes)
Hi ! I have Martin audio XD15 and F15 I could hear XP15 (the sound is very very good, for friends and me : better than Yamaha DZR15, Hk L5 115 mk2; RCF HDM 45a, Ld curv 500 TS) (I made tests (in video on my channel) My question is : does CDD live 15 sound better than XP 15 (on recorded music not live music) ? (not to mention SPL level or coverage, just sound quality) Thank you very much ! :-)
@@dougberry4674 Ok thank you very much ! I compared Martin audio xD15 vs xP15 (outside) xD15 (in bi-active mode) is more punchy, more details (later, test inside with also L acoustics X15 (with la4x and sub)) I am looking for: CDD; THS or FP
Unfortunately no sound test, but 14:24 has a picture of the speaker without a grill. The grill itself requires a lot of force to take off and is just held on with clamping force, so I figured just showing a stock photo was easier.
Hey! How do you think the CDD LIVE 15s compare to the JBL SRX815p? I know they don't have the same coverage or not even the same class. But i can find them both for the same price and i want to know which can do the most spl without distortion. And if i would get the cdd how would they perform in a rave fest environment
If you are able to get CDD Live 15 for the same price as SRX815p, that's either an unbelievable deal on the CDD if they are that cheap or a total rip of the SRX if it's that expensive. Go with the CDD. Several db louder, far less distortion, far better coverage, far better accessories (fly bracket, IP rain upgrade), better software with Dante and vu-net if you ever want that, etc. We have used them for small rave like events up to several hundred people and they were excellent. SRX815 simply would not have done the events we have used our CDD for
These are great sounding speakers, and you would be right in saying they don't compare to consumer speakers. At the same time though, they don't really compare anything... at all. When you were describing the coverage patterns of speakers, you were describing the coverage patterns that you would normally find in most speakers with a conventional horn. The CDDs, however, are a completely different ballgame. In both the DD and CDD series, DD and CDD means (Coaxial) Differential Dispersion. Differential being the key word here. The horizontal coverage actually varies depending on how close you are the speakers. The further away you are from the speaker, the narrower the pattern gets. The closer you are to the speaker, the wider the pattern gets. What you end up with (looking at the horizontal plane from a more 2D perspective) is not so much a triangle pattern more than it is a rectangular/trapezoid pattern, thus ensuring better side tot side coverage front to back. The vertical pattern is just as interesting. In conventional horns, your "on-axis" point would be in the center of the pattern (for example, in a horn with a 40 degree vertical pattern, you would have 20 degrees on either side of the on-axis point before being out of coverage). In the (C)DD series however, the on-axis point is nearly at the top of the coverage. I believe (from what I remember from a conversation with my dealer) the coverage from the on-axis point up is maybe 5 degrees and from the on-axis point down is 55 degrees (60 degrees total). The idea is to use the flying bracket to aim the on-axis point at the furthest back point in your intended audience area, again to ensure the smoothest coverage front to back and ALSO to minimize sound bleed past your intended coverage (for example, to minimize disturbing the neighbors in an outdoor gig or to avoid the back wall in poor acoustical environments on an indoor gig). In the vertical sense, it's kinda like Martin Audio's MLA, but it's all wrapped up in a neat point-source package. Hopefully this made sense (otherwise it's just the ramblings of a crazy person obsessed with audio technology, lol) Great video nonetheless, and great work unboxing and reviewing those nice fixtures. ;-)
I seriously appreciate your long write up and attempt to inform us of something that we weren't already aware of! Unfortunately, I was aware of everything you mentioned, except the specific on axis spot of the CDD. When I was describing the coverage patterns, the biggest point I was trying to make was how the SM80 narrowed in coverage as it went up in frequency. One thing I didn't mention was how this problem is exacerbated by the fact that the SM80 has a conical coverage pattern, meaning you get even less even horizontal coverage in comparison to a speaker that has a trapezoidal coverage pattern. For all of the gigs we've used the CDDs at so far we've done exactly what you described: pointing the on-axis point at the back of the crowd. Not exactly, but basically I've just been flying them pointing straight out as opposed to angling them down like I would with a traditional point source box. The incredibly even front to back coverage is absolutely stunning. I've never experienced anything like this out of a point source box before. It really is exactly like you describe: MLA style vertical coverage in a point source box, the only real difference being I don't have control over the CDD coverage, it's fixed as it is, plus low mid directivity but that's a whole other conversation to be had.
Have you guys ever considered building your own speakers? This is exactly what I did and couldn’t be more happier. Price wise for one probably end up being a bit more than twice the price of the cdd’s, but sound wise maybe equivalent to 12 of these, but hard to tell. Sound wise and coverage should be comparable with better coverage from your speaker. I would actually like to know what you think of my build. Design wise Its somewhat comparable to the wpl from Martin audio but instead used as a point source and also using better components. For instance I’m not sure if you know or have heard of this compression driver, but I’m using a bms 4599he for mid range, highs 4 ciare ct440 and mid bass 2 B&c 15nw76 in a horn/ reflex design like the wpl.
We have definitely talked about making our own speakers, a bit too complex to get in to on a UA-cam comment. I will say we wouldn't make something that can necessarily replace a CDD in every way, especially it's differential dispersion coverage, but there are some things we would address on our speakers that the CDD is lacking
Take a look at the LD Stinger G3 series flybracket for the 12" and 15" models, similar in funktion, but quick connectors instead of screws :) Sure, the speaker is of course not in the same class they are pretty good though), but the flybracket seems great. I'm ordering a couple of those brackets soon :)
I would prefer the Rcf NX-45, at lower price and better weight, it is also extremely noisy and it sounds so good that I would say that it is in the range of the best
I would say both the NX and the CDD are around the same class in terms of output and price (similarly priced) just likely with a big sound quality difference. The RCF uses a bigger HF driver (4" vs 3" in the CDD) crossed an octave lower (700hz vs 1500hz), so my guess is I'd prefer the sound of the CDD while both boxes would be similar in output. However, the unique coverage pattern of the CDD I feel would destroy the traditional coverage pattern of the RCF. It really doesn't hit you how good the CDD coverage is until you walk the room and bask in the ridiculous consistency.
Hey alex, you have tried the new WPM system, what are your expectations, I would like to know if they are so powerful to be so small, I have not seen any recording of a real demonstration of them in action, they could be compared to the Nexo Geo M10? Thank
WPM is insane. Martin Audio brought Doug and I out to Nashville, TN to get a demo of the full Wavefront Precision line (MLA also happened to be there for other reasons, but we still got to hear that too). At the demo, on a live multitrack mix of a Sting song, we measured WPM to do over 104dBA at around 150 feet distance (indoors in a relatively well treated tour pre-staging venue) with 8 boxes per side in 2 box resolution, and the array still had around 6dB left before any of the boxes started limiting. It also sounds unbelievably good. Like, in limit it doesn't sound like it's in limit, which seems to be a common trait of Martin Audio loudspeakers (same for the CDD). It also doesn't have the typical "line array" sound to me, which I think is due to their processing. It's funny that you want to compare WPM to the Geo M10, as we also heard that box at InfoComm last year. It was the only demo that we went to, out of like 15+ other demos, that had noticeable HF breakup distortion at relatively low levels. Like probably 98dBA at 30ft or something with 8 boxes a side and had the most distortion we heard at all of InfoComm. That's not to say it had a lot of distortion, just the most out of everything we heard at InfoComm. IMO, Geo M10 doesn't compare to WPM in terms of overall quality, as well as WPM's processing puts it in a completely different league all together. Wavefront Precision is a new breed of line array, and because of its processing you can't really compare it to traditional line arrays. The only other competitor WP has would be d&b line arrays (J, V, Y), WITH Array Processing. Beyond that, there's just EAW Anya, Anna, and Martin Audio MLA series. The amount of control WP gives you over the vertical coverage, as compared to traditional line arrays, is revolutionary.
Great video. Thanks for sharing. I am a DJ based in Maryland. I am planning to get a speaker for my mobile events. Do you suggest this speaker for mobile DJ? What is the best Sub speaker for this? Have you compared this speaker to RCF's Evox 12?
I absolutely recommend this speaker for mobile djs if you are doing larger rooms, or just want extremely high quality sound However, they are best when paired with subwoofers like the Martin Audio SXP218. These need dual 18s to pair with them They are not comparable to RCF Evox 12. Completely different product and performance categories. The Evox is far quieter, had a different frequency range, different coverage pattern, and in our opinion has worse tonality We're up in Harrisburg PA, so if you want a demo, send us an email!
Don't necessarily agree with the powercon without a cable thing. Martin, and heaps of other companies, ship world wide. It's easier and cheaper to just throw a connector in rather than make sure that the right box has the right end for the place where they're shipping to. Example, DJ City are the distributors for Chauvet in Australia. They open every one of their boxes and replace the US cable with an Australian one. Not having a cable eliminates this problem.
yeah i forgot about the whole international connectors thing. my point still stands generally why the reason they don't send you a cable is because you make your own, which is what the core of my point was, even though i wasn't specifically correct on the reasoning. same deal, make your own cable = also use your own countries power plug
Hey Guys! Thanks for the detailed unboxing.... I just placed an order for 4 of these bad boys and a couple sxp218's and was wondering how large an audience will this setup be appropriate for. I haven't been able to listen to them due to living remotely(ish) but from what I gathered, they will due for my purposes (small events featuring electronic music, mostly). Do you think 4 would power an event for 300 people? Thanks!!
I have a question for you. You go out and spend 10k on four of these and 10k for a pair of 218 bass bins + what ever outboard gear and rigging you might need, and NOW you ask what size venue they can play, and you haven't heard them? You say you can't listen because you live too far away, but yet you are willing to fork out 20+ grand for speakers? Dude, include 800$ for a plane ticket and a one night hotel stay as part of your investment. How on earth do you do your business model? You buy a system without knowing what you need and can do with it? You know what size events you do, so you buy according to that. If you are unsure, you better talk to the manufacture prior to ordering a system. Also, two 218's for four of these? I can tell you right now that unless you play 250 ppl gigs, those 218's won't get you far with four of these on top. If you're playing say a place where the center of the floor is 30 feet from each 218, you are looking at what, 112 db cont. at best when headroom, a crowd and heat soak is taken into consideration. Those 112 is being generous by the way. In earnest, and please be honest. Are you for real, or just a guy on youtube bragging? Because that is the most insane business model I have ever seen in pro audio.
I would not use four of these to cover the same part of an audience. I would only use four in a deployment where you need to cover an extremely wide audience area, say like 180+ degrees of coverage. No overlap between speakers That being said, yes these can be used for an audience of 300 people, but it also depends on how loud you feel like it needs to be and how much headroom you want
Never! But forreal tho, probably never, as Martin makes competing products that perform better in our opinion. Wavefront Precision is insanely powerful, and AFAIK there literally isn't a competing product on the market right now, especially at their price point. Our next step is probably gonna be WPM, which we've measured 8 a side to do 110dBA on music at 150 feet away, so that will cover damn near every project we'll be taking on for quite a while.
I understand! K1 is extremely expensive and very large. With very few exceptions, I've been very pleased when listening to, and mixing on, a Martin system. Especially their MLA line. I am personally quite impressed at the technology Martin implements into their product. Not to mention that few companies are able to achieve this without "cheaping out" or overpricing their product. Do you plan on expanding all (or most of) your inventory to Martin? Or just keep the Martin gear for the larger events?
Even without talking about price, I'd rather have a Wavefront Precision system over any L-Acoustics system, simply for the fact that you get WAY more control (if you want to) over the Martin system than the L-Acoustics system. I just don't like how L-Acoustics has completely oversimplified their software to the point of having near 0 control over your arrays, for the sake of being extremely fast to setup and super easy to use. IMO Display can be just as easy (plug in your venue dimensions, box type/amount, array position, and drop in dB over distance and then the software does everything else for you), but it also allows you full control over just about everything if you want that control. As for our inventory, as we expand more than likely the only gear we'll have that won't be Martin will be our ZLX's and ETX system for the smallest of events. Everything else will probably be Martin. Now if Martin made a good single 18" sub, I don't think we'd be holding onto our ETX system.
sweet speakers! Doug and the crew due to how large your events are instead of getting small individual speakers you should invest on a much louder line array.
Considering the realistic size of most of our current events, having a line array would not be beneficial in almost all regards, and only make setup more difficult.
Alex Berry true, but in the future. I expect in maybe like three years time u guys will have so much equipment that u will even have your own stage and huge trussing imagine one of those out door events with big line arrays and big stage systems u will probably end like that in years time
Have you seen the Yamaha DZR315 three-way speakers? They are solid, I think they are vastly better than the EV ETX speakers and cost less. Yamaha DXS18XLF subs are quite decent too. Still no Martin.
I guess now is a good time to ask this question regarding speakers lol. I am a mobile DJ and my main gigs are/will be school dances. I already have ZLX15Ps and EKX18SPs by EV, but in terms of looking at upgrades, I might get 2 ETX35Ps and 4 ETX18SPs. I would use the ETX system with my ZLXs pointed inward, because the coverage of the ETX35Ps are only 60 degrees. Am I thinking correctly about this in terms of evenly distributed sound? I have learned much of what I know by watching y'alls videos and reading comments, but I am no expert. Also, I am a one man crew, so I cannot really justify getting Martin CDD15s over something like Danley TH118s yet. That's why I decided on EV. This is a long response, but I highly value your opinions. Thanks in advance!
If i were you i would get jbl vrx918 for the subs.... but since you run ev, go for it! Keep in mind vrx918sp is more expensive, lighter but better sounding. But again since your running ev tops, better get ev subs as well.
Have you tested KLA series (QSC?) I'v personally never tried them but a small line array format would be really good for your aplications I imagine. Not saying they are better than the Martins (they probably aren't), but I would like to listen your opinions about them.
We've not tested KLA, but we've heard it multiple times and have absolutely 0 plans to test it in the future. I've also mixed on a VRX932 (passive) system (3 a side tops, 8 subs) and was not a very big fan of that system either. KLA and VRX, two of the most popular products right now in constant curvature (not line array, as they are not line arrays) just don't sound very good, tops nor subs. They both suffer pretty badly from perceived loudness through distortion, which is quite literally painful to listen to and damages your hearing. Besides all of that though, constant curvature, or a small line array for that matter, would only complicate setup/take longer to setup, as well as would add weight to what our cranks would need to be able to handle. And on top of that, they wouldn't provide any benefits to most of the events we're currently doing. The only small line array I'd look into using for a lot of the events we currently do would be Martin Audio WPM, because it's very light, very easy to setup, and not exactly a traditional line array. But either way, it would end up costing the client a hell of a lot more money than CDD 15's, so it probably wouldn't get used very much for most of the events we currently do.
Thank you for the detailed answer. Obviously Martin makes way higher range products but I never tought the KLA's are that bad (never used them but assumed they would be decent).
It depends on your standards, really. I think KLA sounds worse than VRX, and at 50ft distance with 3 a side VRX I wasn't able to push the system past 98dBA without sounding really painful, even with the tuning that I did. It just has too much distortion. To add to that, while mixing a band and having Doug next to me it sounded very loud, yet Doug and I were able to carry on a conversation pretty easily. This is the easiest sign of a system that is giving you perceived loudness through distortion. With a completely distortion free system that sounds loud, you'll need to scream at the person standing next to you in order to talk to them. Some people live and die by the QSC sound, they love that "crunch/pain" and perceived loudness that you get through the distortion the boxes produce. Personally, I absolutely hate it, for multiple reasons. One, I just don't think it sounds good, plus it literally is painful to listen to. And two, that kind of distortion quite literally does damage to your hearing. A distorted sound system will do more hearing damage at a lower SPL than a completely distortion free system at a higher SPL. With our distortion free systems, I can't remember the last time I walked away from one of our gigs with my ears ringing. However, just about every concert I've ever been to I've walked away with my ears ringing like crazy.
I'll absolutely investigate that, thanks for your input. For me, I mostly use point-source speakers for live sound; mostly QSC K12.2s (that's what we - never ran them anywhere near limiter, so I had headroom. For me they have a few compromises but they sound great and hold up well. In an ideal world, I would use a system that I think sounds the best. But on small to medium size events in the area I live, being able to push down prices is essential (sadly). So that's why we rock QSC point source in almost every event. (Alternatives are EV ZXA/ZLX but I don't like and therefore avoid them)
The TT 25-a should be worthy of comparison in terms of volume, although it doesn't have the differential dispersion coverage, is not coaxial, has fewer and worse accessories such as a complete lack of a fly bracket and a rain kit, and is much more expensive anyway Whether or not the sound is "better" I'm sure just comes down to preference. Essentially nothing at this performance tier sounds "bad" from any manufacturer, but we have always preferred the sound of Martin over RCF and I don't think this would be an exception, even setting aside all the other factors I mentioned first
I'm not familiar with the EVX subs, do you mean ELX subs? Either way, only time an external processor is necessary IMO is when you have passive gear being powered with an amp that doesn't have any built in DSP.
Thanks Alex for your reply...much appreciated.. the subs are the EV ZXA1 Subs.... I decided to buy 3 in substitute for 2, 18" Subs...easier to hall around --the 12's on my back much easier.....( I'm older than your dad), But with the ETX 15P's, and the 3, 12" subs getting enough low frequency punch with that set up. Can't wait to see the new Martins in use with your coming GIG Logs
I always use a DriveRack for PEQ and RTA, and Anti-Feedback. Also does the crossovers. I do nothing internally On my Powered tops. I have passive subs.
Why do you guys prefer coaxial? I haven't tried them myself, I'm only using the more basic MI grade stuff, but is there a secret to why you choose coaxial that might change quite a lot about the performance at a gig?
Well to be honest, we didn't pick these boxes because they're coax. We picked them because they're the only boxes that get this loud, sound this good (distortion and tonality wise), and are this general size/weight at this price point. There really aren't that many boxes on the market period that get this loud at this form factor. As for why is coaxial cool, starting at about 11:41 I actually talk about a big downside of coax stuff and how Martin is unique in how they solved that problem. Aside from that, without special design and serious tuning, regular MI grade stuff, with the HF horn and LF driver separated in either the X or Y axis (X axis being side to side, Y axis being up and down, Z axis being front to back), has coverage inconsistencies through the frequency response. So like as you move around in the coverage pattern of the box the frequency response will shift. This is because the HF and LF drivers are separated by space, causing phase cancellation at different frequencies varying throughout the coverage pattern. With coaxial, you solve this problem by putting the HF and LF driver in the same place in the X and Y axis. Since the only way they're separated by physical space is in the Z axis, which you can fix with a tiny amount of simple signal delay, you eliminate those coverage issues, and by extension, also get a more true sound out of the box. Like, coax boxes just sound better. This is cause all of the sound coming out of the box is coming from the exact same place in physical space. This is pretty much as close to a true point source as you can get. Another good example of that would be Danley Sound Labs Synergy horns. However, it's absolutely worth mentioning that you can solve those same issues in a non-coaxial box, just with a lot more complicated methods. For example, the EV ZLX, and especially the EV ETX, both sound like coaxial boxes. This is because they physically time aligned the HF and LF drivers in both boxes as well as they could, which did a good amount for the ZLX, but with the ETX they go way further with extremely in depth FIR filtering to digitally time align the HF and LF drivers. So the ETX line doesn't have any coverage inconsistencies, because the box is aligned so well. The ZLX is good, way better than your typical MI grade box, but not on the level of the ETX. Like the ETX quite literally sounds like a coaxial box. It was weird, the first time I noticed it, because it sounded like all of the sound coming out of the speaker was all coming out of where the HF driver is located. Like everything from 100Hz and up. Another good point I should add is that none of this talks about overall frequency response, or THD (distortion) when pushing the boxes hard. You can absolutely have a non-coaxial, non-time aligned box that has really nice components and sounds incredible (even freq response, low distortion) that will sound way better than a cheap, poorly designed coaxial box (uneven freq response, high distortion). But, all things being equal, a coax will sound better. If I didn't touch on what you really wanted to hear about, just let me know and I'll do my best to answer any other questions you have.
So really the best box to look for is one that is very well time aligned between the drivers, rather than coaxial. Would this eliminate the passive stuff, such as the EV SX100, which are legendary speakers as far as I've heard, or would some of these have a special crossover in them that does the time alignment?
Not at all. The best box to look for is one that fits your needs. By that I mean something that is the right size/weight, has the right SPL output, sounds good in your opinion, and especially, is the right price. IMO, sound quality in general (frequency response and distortion levels when pushed hard) is MUCH more important than a well time aligned box. Sure, something like the ETX sounding like a coax even though it's not is cool, but I'd rather have a loud, great sounding speaker that isn't specially time aligned than a speaker that sounds OK but has great alignment. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what the speaker is or what kind of processing (if any) it has if it fits your needs and sounds good to you. Time alignment has never been a consideration for me when buying speakers. It's like the final cherry on top. For example, the Martin Audio X12 speaker is a budget friendly, loud, 12" 2 way top that isn't time aligned at all, has frequency response inconsistencies throughout the coverage pattern, and I wouldn't hesitate using it on a regular basis if it fit my needs for the gigs I were doing because it sounds phenomenal (due to higher grade components). To reiterate that point, and repeating what I said earlier, we didn't buy the CDD because it was a coax or because of the alignment or anything like that. We bought it because it gets loud enough for what we need to do, sounds great, has great coverage (not talking about alignment), is the correct size and weight, and was the right price. Hell, even the flying bracket was a bigger consideration than the fact it's coaxial.
Quite some time ago you mentioned in one of your video's that you weren't completely satisfied with the performance and sound quality of the ETX 18sp's. You planned to explain this in a review video, but that never happend. It sounds now that your opinion somewhat changed. I'm curious, did you change you mind? And if so, why?
review is still coming, and i'm still not satisfied overall with them, but in the price bracket, there's no better powered single 18. they're literally the subs we use for our absolute smallest packages
Martin audio is crazy. Have you heard the H3+ I mean we own them, so we think they are cool besides the weight, but if you have heard them what do you think?
What do you guys think about jbl srx828sp subs (its impossible for me to get martin audio products) What do you think can contest the srx828sp for the price has to be active tho
Pretty much nothing can compete with 828SP for the price. If that's your budget, that's probably the best you can do for the money. They're really not that great of subs, but they're good enough for the money.
They are very nice indeed. How are they angled when flown two or three deep? I think the whole consumer vs. pro is a really odd thing to be honest. There are some stellar "consumer" grade speakers out there that from a sonic standpoint can compete with the industry standard stuff. Not much, but some. On the flipside there is some industry standard stuff that sounds like utter crap - yes I'm looking at you EAW, L'Acoustics and JBL!. Obviously some of those consumer grade speakers will not survive the rigours of the pro world, but some of the D.A.S and KS Audio as well as the Blackline stuff for example, is shockingly good sounding. But anyway, the CDD is a really awesome blend of old and new. They get the sound out of the box like an old TMS3 did, which is something just about no PA speaker does any more. It is rare to go to an event these days and hear a sound system that disappears. Martin, Void and F1 are probably the only ones left that still manages this tricky feat.
Quite impressed with the L'Acoustics arcs I heard, though would like to hear single boxes for utmost fidelity. Also quite impressed with the Shermann Audio boxes I've heard.
L acoustics is a competing brand for sure but the 12xt is a bit old. The main differences are that it's a 12 inch LF instead of 15, it's 4-5db quieter, it's not powered, doesn't have a fly bracket like the CDD universal bracket, and it has a traditional coax driver so the coverage will be dramatically worse than the differential dispersion on CDD. You can definitely pick up used 12xt for a great price so if you don't need a new product with warranty and the other features CDD offers it could be a good purchase That being said, I have not heard the 12xt, so I don't have any thoughts on the tonality. I have heard the X12 and X15 though which of course sound great, but I would still prefer CDD Live 15 personally mainly for the better coverage, not to mention the cost difference
@@dougberry4674 Thanks for the fast reply! The specs of the speakers say the La is 1db louder, 132 for the CDD and 133 for the 12xt. I’ve heard great things about them. I’m switching from ETX and 12xt/sb18 with la8 looked like a nice set. The only disadvantage is the price ofcourse :)
@@sndr7957 LA rates their speakers in crest factor 4, which means their peak SPL rating shows 12db louder than their continuous. Martin rates in crest factor 2 so their peak only shows 6db louder, but it's all relative. So you can just apply crest factor 4 to Martin and add 6db to the peak rating, but it's a better real world spec to always use continuous SPL ratings not peak, so in that case you have to remove 12db from LA peak vs removing 6db from Martin peak, which reveals that the LA is 5db quieter than the CDD live 15
@@dougberry4674mmm, i’ve never knew that.. thanks for the explanation! So to compete with the CDD you need an arcs focus or something like that? And another question, would you rather have an 12xt set or a bassboss dv12 set? Both with subs.
@@sndr7957 arcs is a better comparison to CDD live 15 for sure but in fact a bit louder. Especially the new a15. Bassboss vs 12xt it depends on cost really, but I would personally invest in LA over bassboss
tried to make it not sound like that, it's simply that the cdds are better in a lot of ways, and they cost less. sm80s are great though! lighter, 3db louder, good for long narrow venues, and some people will definitely prefer the sound of them
Congrats guys , those are really good speakers , the cost is still very accesible , at the price point is probably the best you can get , I like the Danley's sm 80's as well , I am surprise you did not like them , they are pretty flat sounding out of the box , you need to eq them just to your taste , I hear you about the 80 degree conical dispersion , not good in really wide rooms , you definitly need front fills in the kind of events you do , I own Jbl vp series and I like them a lot , I have heard really good things on fulcrum self powered speakers. Are you guys thinking in getting new subwoofers also ? those ev etx are good sounding , but they are just way too deep , I like the jbl srsx818 at that price point , the box that I like a lot and own is the Danley TH118 , I run 4 of them on a single powersoft k10 , I really recommend those if you are looking to get some. Good luck to all of you.
Although the main reason we got rid of the SM80's had nothing to do with sound quality, I will completely disagree with you that they are flat sounding out of the box. There's a decent amount of 400hz or so 1 octave wide jumping out, as well as some unruly 2khz and a lot of HF diaphragm breakup distortion around 6khz. IMO they are not acceptable if run with 0 EQ. However, after tuning, they do sound fantastic, which is why sound quality was not one of the reasons for us replacing them. I think you may have missed the point about the dispersion. I would have been totally happy if it was actually 80 degrees conical throughout the entire operating bandwidth. But it's not, its like 40 degrees up in the HF, which makes it not a very practical/versatile box. We are looking at getting new subwoofers. Our ETX subs have never been our main subs and only go out with the 12P tops. We're looking at getting a pair of Martin SXH218 as they're only about 2dB quieter than the 4 double 18's we currently rent on a regular basis, which are actually almost identical in output to the TH118.
Wow have you tried the new SXH218, 148db seems crazy, are they as strong as two th118 or equal? I think that with 1 you can only cover one sound on the school's court
Have not heard the SXH218, but I have heard MLX which uses the same exact cabinet design and it is the most insane single cabinet double 18" sub I've ever heard. I also trust the SXH218 specs, so yes one SXH218 is 1dB short of the output of two TH118.
To make it clear, 2 Th118 weigh around 160kg vs 124kg, each costs around $ 3000 plus the amplifier that has to be of good quality, a QSc PL380 2700 $, in total would be $ 8700, the SXH218 more compact, having lower weight, it is deeper and lower and 1db more powerful, plus it seems more incredible and beautiful
Nice speakers... With the size of the events your doing I am surprised you didn't go with renting in some tour grade RCF. Still great choice... Coverage patterns always needed to be watched hence why I went with a QSC K10 for most events...
RCF simply doesn't make anything that competes with these in terms of price, volume, and form factor It's tough to say "what size event" we'll use these at because it depends how loud we need it to be. we could use them in a 1000 person room or for 10,000 people outdoors again depending on how loud we need it to be
Doug Berry nice way of thinking... That's why I had used the term of "RENTING"... I just did a 4,000 person event with the following all RCF... 1 X SUB 9006-AS 1 X SUB 8006-AS (I believe) 2 X RCF - 4PRO 5031-A (I believe) It was nuts... I'll share a video on your Facebook page... Trust me I get it....
That sounds pretty underpowered for a 4k person event IMO. These CDD 15s look to be equivalent in output on paper to the 4PRO 5031, and depending on the event I probably wouldn't use them for anything more than like 1k people.
I'm not even sure what model the tops were however they had plenty of SPL size of the room we had... D.A.S. makes some pretty sick stuff as well. If you send me a message on Facebook I'll share the videos from the event for ya
@@dougberry46741000 people for a pair of cdd live 15 (with subs) seems enormously over rated. I wouldn’t use cdd’s live 15 for anything over 250-300 people for a concert application. For reference I’m using for my small events a pair of pm90’s with 4 21 inch horn’s for anything below 500 people. The pm90’s (designed by Peter Morris which consists of 2 18 sound 12 inch NMB1000 with a b&c dcx464) would run around 135db continuous so around 10 db more than the CDD live 15.
This video is not a real comparison side by side with the DSL SM80's. it is just an overview of the CDD-Live 15's. The sample of the SM80's in use is distorted that you can't hear anything in definition of quality and pattern control. The use the SM80's and i never experienced such a narrowing in the high frequency. they are both great cabinets i believe. i wish to see a side by side comparison between the CDD-Live 15 and the SM80's. + measured data of the coverage angles.
You're absolutely right, it's not a comparison with the SM80's. It's an overview of the CDD, just like the title says. It also includes our impressions of the CDD, and an explanation of why we switched from the SM80, as the title also says. You are objectively wrong, though, about the sample of the SM80's in use. The small amount of distortion does nothing to cover up the fact that the midrange frequencies are very reverberant and the high frequencies are not. Maybe I'm just some kind of extra-dimensional god when it comes to analyzing audio, because I can clearly hear the phenomenon, but I doubt that. Can you really not make out the fact that the lyrics in the vocals are extremely hard to understand while the trumpets and hi-hats are defined? I'm very surprised that you haven't run into a similar issue having worked with the SM80's yourself. We owned our pair for something like 2 years and it was something we noticed at nearly every single event we used them at. I say nearly because there was one event where we used them in a tiny room so the narrow coverage was not an issue or apparent. Also, during our A/B comparison with the CDD it was very obvious while walking the room that the SM80 did not have consistent coverage while the CDD did. Perhaps you should try to arrange a demo for yourself to see what you're missing!
They're rated to be 3dB quieter than the SM80s, but the amp we were using on our SM80's could only give them half continuous power, so for us they're identical.
that's a mostly valid comparison. UPQ-1Ps are definitely louder, but they're also way heavier and way more expensive however, martin XE series monitors are even louder than UPQ-1Ps. the xe300, 12 inch, is 4db louder than the meyer, and the xe500, 15 inch, is 7DB LOUDER FREAKIN 137 CONTINUOUS! I've suggested to martin engineers that they put the drivers from their XE monitors into a normal mains speaker form factor and coverage pattern. if they did that, we would probably pick up some of those beasts
Meyer... you may find a better speaker but you would never find a more expensive one... seriously you can’t compare much to Meyer in terms of sound quality.
@@chrissymostuy UPA-1P is definitely a good speaker. They are loud and will get the job done and will have some nice highs up to about 17.5k. if you can get together about $12-14k I would highly recommend the Ultra-X40. They are lighter and louder and reach up to 18.5k. it's our go-to rental speaker for corporate and small events that don't need line arrays.
do you mind explaining the tuning with the SM80? I thought with the "Danley design", almost no processing or tuning is required and they sound great out of the box? Seriously looking at getting a pair, but you got my attention.
“I thought with the "Danley design", almost no processing or tuning is required and they sound great out of the box?” Yea that's just more marketing mumbo jumbo. Some people like the sound of SM80's just like some people like the sound of QSC K12s and JBL VRX923LA. Personally I hate the sound of the latter two boxes, but the SM80 I can get sounding really nice with tuning. Now to be fair, AFAIK the SM80 is kind of an outlier in terms of overall sound compared to most of Danley's other products. It’s kind of a basic design and really isn’t a “synergy horn”. I personally prefer a natural, balanced, flat sound with a slight emphasis on "sparkle", aka 10kHz+. So, by extension, I don't like speakers that put a heavy emphasis on any particular bandwidth, like for example a low mid heavy speaker. I also hate a speaker that is physically painful to listen to at high output, AKA something that has a lot of high frequency breakup distortion, and by extension perceived loudness through distortion. With that in mind, here's a screenshot of the EQ I would apply to the SM80s to get them sounding nice *to me* at nearly every event we used them: drive.google.com/open?id=1ts3juaDSJ1i87XKjh32Iui_RuUyKN4m4 Also keep in mind that that curve was done with the boxes run 3db down from max continuous power. It would vary slightly gig to gig, but that was generally the tuning that I felt I had to do so that the speakers weren't offending me. That specific curve would also probably be different if I attempted tuning the SM80 today, as I’ve gotten better at tuning speakers to sound how I want them to. The CDD Live 15, on the other hand, generally requires 0 tuning before it sounds really nice to me. Sometimes if I have some extra headroom I'll add in a touch of 500-2khz and pull out a little HF breakup distortion around 6kHz. But, the breakup distortion is already *very* low compared to nearly everything else out on the market (including the SM80), and running the box at maximum output with 0 tuning provides a phenomenal end result, in my opinion. In comparison, running the SM80 at maximum output with 0 tuning doesn’t even come close to touching the level of quality the CDD Live 15 produces, again in my opinion. All of this doesn’t even touch the fact that the SM80’s narrow high frequency dispersion makes the box unusable for most applications IMO. Or the fact that the CDD Live 15 is at worst only 3db quieter, powered with peak and thermal limiters for the HF and LF drivers independently, cheaper, and has superior coverage. I mean the asymmetric coverage pattern alone makes the CDD almost entirely unique and extremely attractive. There’s also the flyware accessories to consider (which the CDD’s is vastly superior to the SM80’s), as well as all of the extra benefits that come from having such a high quality amp module in the CDD like Dante, full parametric EQ, remote control, etc.
If you really want some serious Powerful and Genuine Quality Speakers. Check out the New Yorkville EF15P Tops. They are some serious Quality, way better than the speaker you bought. And if you need a top notch subwoofer, check out the ES18P, I can guarantee you, you will not find a sub as nearly as good as it.
I would say qsc and jbl is definitely professional, they both have cheaper lines like jbl eon and qsc k.2, but they also have there pro grade stuff like the jbl srx or vertex, and qsc kw, kla, and e series.
that wasn't the point of "pro grade" vs "MI" like I explained at 1:48 in the video where i say that you can use their speakers for professional applications. it's also not a matter of "I would say X brand is professional" because it's not an opinion. objectively, CDD Live 15s are a pro grade product, not an MI grade product. "pro grade" vs "MI" grade are just different terms manufacturers and brands use to describe basically something any average consumer can buy at guitar center vs things you need to buy from a specific equipment dealer. there are also a variety of differences between "pro grade" vs "MI" grade speakers like how accurate the specifications of the speaker are on the product sheet, different marketing techniques, different target customers, different price bracket, and of course a different level of performance by the product. while qsc, jbl, ev, yamaha, mackie, behringer, alto, community, etc etc etc, all make products marketed as "professional speakers" which are used by genuine audio professionals, (and they do make some series of "pro grade" products), they are technically *by definition* making mostly MI grade products which the vast majority of people are familiar with like the ETX series, K and KW seires, SRX, Eon, DSR and DXR, etc etc etc. martin audio is a *by definition* pro grade brand like danley, d&b, l acoustics, meyer, eaw, adamson, etc etc etc, because the VAST majority of their products are pro grade not MI grade.
JBL SRX, QSX KW and E series are all MI grade boxes, not pro level stuff. As for KLA and Vertec, both companies in recent times have been focusing much more heavily on their MI grade products as opposed to their pro grade stuff. Vertec I'd definitely consider pro, while KLA I'd say is like right on the line, more along the lines of entry level pro. And while both companies do still make pro level stuff, both of them put a lot more effort and marketing into their MI grade stuff.
Alex Berry In my understanding of mi vs pro I would consider the jbl eon, mackie thump, and terrible Harbinger's mi speakers, but I wouldn't really consider anything qsc mi, I have looked at the parts and drivers from many qsc boxes and they have very high end parts and are built very well. I also have never where I live seen qsc marketed as consumer or low end speakers. Just because you have to special order something from a distributor doesn't mean that it's better than something you could buy at Guitar Center or Sam Ash.
you're totally right that just because you can't buy it at guitar center it's automatically better or worse, but the point is that mi and pro grade in this situation are just labels. nothing more. they're a way to, as a rule of thumb, understand some general details about a given product. again, it's not a situation of "i think this is MI or not", qsc products, except for wide line, are by definition MI grade products. even though they are a solid product and can indeed be used in professional applications, they are still under the label of MI
Hey guys if you really wanted a MI speaker or professional brand you should look to more accepted brands in riders than Martin, like Adamson, d&b audiotechnik or L’Acoustics. I own a d&b Y series + b6 subwoofer and also an L’Acoustics KARA + SB18. I have heard Martin Audio speakers and they don’t sound nearly as good as any of the brands I mentioned above.
the das event series doesn't compare to the dual 18s martin audio makes. the event series is an affordable line of products which does not perform as well as the competing martin products the only subwoofer from das that i have experience with and know competes with martin products is the ux-218, but it is way more expensive than the competing products from martin that perform just as well *or better* for the same price
Doug Berry you know what is better than martin audio subs McCauley subs they make this box with four 21 inch subs in the box they need two amplifiers per box
Doug Berry these are all the products that i think are the best. jbl, das audio, martin audio, Qsc, McCauely, kv2 audio, fbt, forceon audio, turbo sound, electro voice, eaw, cerwin vega, db technologies, Rcf and community. and amplifiers Lab Gruppen, powersoft, crown and Qsc
"better" is complicated. is it a bigger sub that gets louder? maybe. but it's also huge and super expensive. danley makes some HUGE subs, and so does hennessey sound design, but there are a lot of factors to saying it's better or worse. plus, the fact that it needs two amplifiers is not a good thing, that's a bad thing. that's super inconvenient. i'd rather have a hennessey battleaxe. i also can't find any info on this quad 21 anyway.
i would say kv2, martin, d&b, l acoustics, electro voice, hennessey sound design. void, eaw, danley, jbl, das, db technologies, turbo sound, qsc and then i have no experience with the other brands amps i would say linea research, powersoft, lab gruppen, qsc, crown
Because those thing will blow your balls off im just saying the truth. and ps you guys need to start using linearrays because linearrays can throw more far to the back without turning it up to loud and punishing the people in the front....
While I don't feel like writing a really long reply about line arrays, basically for the events we're doing right now we really don't need them for the reason you're describing. As for McCauley subs, having 0 experience with them and really not knowing anything about them, looking at the website and seeing basically 0 specs on their products + no spec sheets is a huge red flag for me. Not to mention there really don't seem to be any breathtaking designs, they seem to just be more run of the mill bass reflex boxes. We have some plans for subs that will actually be nuts, so keep an eye out for that!
If you actually LOOK at the measured data/polar responses, you will see several things. For one thing the SM80s do not go down to 40*, closer to 60* but only over a limited range, next the martin gets narrower than the Sm80 at just above 10Khz, Look at the sound coming off of the rear of the box, and you will see that there is less sound coming off of the rear with the SM80s. ALso you will notice that the SM80 has pattern control down LOWER than the Martin. This is due to the physically larger horn on the SM80. But that would require looking at and understanding real data and not just "heresay".
Nearly everything you have mentioned is correct. However, pattern control down to a lower frequency and the amount of energy coming off of the rear of the box is not nearly as big of a concern of mine as what is coming out of the front of the box. This is because, in my opinion, if it sounds like I'm outside of the coverage pattern of the SM80 when I'm standing 40 degrees off axis from it, I could care less if it's doing a good job at reducing the SPL coming out of the rear of the box. While yes, your "real data" would absolutely suggest that the narrowing of the dispersion in the high frequencies is not as drastic as I describe it to be, I would make the argument that your "real data" does not accurately convey what the boxes sound like in real life in regards to the narrowing of the high frequencies. I don't need "real data" to make my decisions for me, I make my decisions based on my real life experience with the speakers, and in my experience the CDD does a MUCH better job at dispersing the high frequencies throughout the intended coverage pattern in comparison to the SM80. The one thing from your comment that confuses me is where "heresay" comes into play. We owned and used the SM80 for something like 2-3 years before replacing them with the CDD, so we have a good amount of first hand experience with it. We also directly compared it (in person) to the CDD. None of the statements that I have made are based on hearsay, unless my understanding of that word is different from yours. I'd also like to mention that I did not appreciate the condescending tone of your comment. Being a professional yourself, not to mention somebody who works for Danley and, AFAIK, the main man behind the design of the SM80, I would expect a more professional attitude from you.
@@stevewiegert2691 No. When I say "standing 40 degrees off axis", I'm referring to standing 40 degrees off from the on axis point which is directly in front of the speaker. Standing 40 degrees off axis would be at the edge of the nominal dispersion pattern.
It's simple. If you have to put "Pro" in the name of your product, it's not really a "Pro" product. If you intend to make a "Pro" product, then make it for real pros, sell it in places where only pros buy, and then provide pro-level support after the sale.
I agree, except even if somebody puts the word "Pro" in their product or company name (Martin Professional lighting comes to mind) but still makes a professional level product with all of the things you mentioned, I don't really think it matters. It only matters when the only "Pro" level part of the product is in the name.
We happen to be doing some packaging for overseas shipment in a containeer, using 7-layer cardboard boxes that are close to 1/3rd-inch thick. Surprised to see how thin & flimsy the M-A box is for shipping this over 80 pounds = almost 40 kilograms unit. The main reason you do not get any cables in the box is probably so you cannot even test out the unit until some later time. Talk about cheap and stingy, ouch. So you have to make yourt own cable to use one of these sepakers? The manufactutrer should be a bit more forthcoming with that info on their product page. I stopped watching this "overview" 5 minutes in, after falling into a deep slumber.
Later realized that the reason the cables are not built is because they ship the same exact sku internationally, so depending on your region you just build the appropriate cable. Still does feel cheap but it's the standard for products like this in this market interestingly
While Meyer is amazing, Martin makes more affordable and a wider range of product. Martins are made for what SLM is using them for. Meyer is more geared towards theatre uses. I’ve never seen a DJ use Meyer. Like a previously stated, martin is more geared towards music. Meyer doesn’t have any (that I know of) coaxial speakers, and one of the biggest issues audio engineers face is coverage overlap. At least i do. Causes many issues such as phasing, comb filtering... etc. and the Coaxial Differential Dispersion (CDD) really fixes most of not all of said issues. That like saying you prefer K12’s over Mackie Thump 12’s. Both have their individual uses. Same here. Martin and Meyer are both good for their own things.
@@dennisondenatalie actually the reason meyer is more expensive is because it is powered. If i were to get a meyer product it will probably be as much as a martin product plus the amp. But of course the martin amp that we buy also can hook up to more than 1 speaker.
*loudest* being the only spec? it's not really the same product, but probably the martin audio xe500 the hennessey sound design manta 90 is a little larger than the cdd live 15, but is also much louder than cdd live 15 in terms of a more closely competing product, the sm80 is 3db louder, so technically it also wins your question, but for reasons explained in the video we feel that the extra 3db is not worth it
@@dougberry4674 im looking for a 2 way that has a very strong and loud bass woth very loud highs, I personally own a yamaha dxr15 mk2 and the highs are ear piercing loud but the bass is just not enough for me. Any suggestions ?
@@petarcholakov9352 if you can, I'd add a sub before upgrading tops However, if a sub is not an option, the CDD Live 15 certainly has quality and balanced bass, but you may also be very happy with the ETX 15p, which comes in at a lower price.
@@petarcholakov9352 the drx doesn't really compare, but the etx and srx are similar. It comes down to personal preference, but overall I prefer the EV sound over JBL, and to my knowledge the etx15p has more bass without boosting (which is important) than the srx815p, so if that's important to you, I'd go with the EV hands down If you're in the US, make sure you email us for a quote! We're dealers for basically all brands, including EV and JBL
We just picked up 4 Bassboss dv12’s and couldn’t be happier... they have a 120° H x 20°V dispersion that gives an incredibly wide coverage area... the narrow vertical dispersion also helps a lot with room reflections, and the cabinets can be arrayed together inverted to couple the waveguide horns with adjustable brackets to change vertical dispersion from 20° to around 50° I think? Haven’t had them configured like that yet but looking forward to it. I do really like the adjustable bracket with this Martin speaker too... excellent choice for your needs! Thanks for the video I feel like so many other people out there don’t pay attention to these kind of specs!
Personally I actually really don't like that design, not to mention the LF driver isn't horn loaded so it isn't getting the same control that the HF driver is. Also, while you will get some help with reverb from the narrow vertical dispersion, the wide horizontal dispersion can be a huge issue in reverberant spaces. For example, long, narrow rooms will be horribly reverberant with a really wide dispersion like that. Personally, I prefer standard dispersions, with the widest horizontal dispersion being 100 degrees.
At first, I was like who the hell is that but then I realized it was Alex. Damn he changed his look
I have two of these, and when your using them hard they don't hurt your ears as the sound only goes forward the boxes are dead sound reason why heavy. the have a safety net in them as well if you use a microphone they have a auto cut off for fed back. they can do a lot more then what these guys say they do . the four buttons are presets the speakers have their limits turned on so they are not running full power. I use them with two Neos 21" subs.
we would use 10 of them just running the danta card, Avantis digital mixer from Allen & Heath they also do nice celling speakers great for home theaters or the CDD5 - 6 or 8
If in New Zealand contact Jansen Pro Audio they cover the whole range and many other things over 60 years in the pro industry.
good video guys
The whole coaxial thing surprised me... was not expecting that!! Great fixture. (
The "camera guy" saves your content. Love him, other guy rambles more than i do - and i'm autistic... Learned some new knowledge about the conical stuffs. Thanks guys! (Just meant that the camera guy is better at streamlined communication than the first) And pardon me for not knowing names.
You mean the guy with the longer hair?
Congrats on the new gear. I can tell you guys are excited ;)
Coverage aside, your tuning adjustments of the SM80 show cuts in areas where maybe the vocals reside in the music that was played. The boosts in the CDD Live frequency tunings may affect those same areas in a positive way. Those 1k-10+k boosts tend to be harsh on most conventional speakers in my opinion.
The tuning adjustments resulted in the sm80 and CDD live 15 sounding essentially the same. It illustrates that the CDD live 15 sound (to us) really pretty great out of the box and needed very little adjustment to get how we wanted it in the room, whereas the sm80 needed a lot more work to get it how we wanted it in the room. In the end they both sounded good (as long as you were in coverage of the sm80s), and very similar, *after* the adjustments
Thanks for the ETX plug.....I bought a used pair of ETX15P and they perform very well......Will you continue to use the same sub configuration with the Martins ? Any GIG Logs coming with the new speakers ...?
Like we said in the video, the Martins don't compare to our ETX system, they compare directly to the SM80s. So no, we won't regularly be using the CDDs with the 18SP subs.
Great product, surely (never was ablr to hear any M-A CDD-Live speakwers, sadly). For the price -- in the USA this one costs right at USD $ 3000. I could only find one dealer, Full Compass, who lists it, it's just they don't have it. In Europe, Thomann or Thomann Music do not carry any Martin-Audio products. They do have something similar from LD Systems. Class-D amplifiers, active design, 15-inch coaxial woofer. Cost: 359. Best of luck in your shopping ventures.
We are also a dealer for Martin, we became one because we like the CDD and Wavefront Precision so much. While we don't carry the CDD Live for $359, we can certainly work with the price more than Full Compass! That being said, we also don't have any in stock, they are super back ordered
You guys still running the CDD-Live 15's? Would love to see a full review sometime and/or hear your thoughts on the ideal pro grade (not MI) top speakers for school events,
We still use them all the time, and continue to love them. We might even like them more now than when we first got them
For general school dances, these are still reasonably the best choice considering all the factors. However, if you are approaching 1000 students at an event somewhat regularly, you should probably consider a larger system overall, like WPM
That being said, it all depends on your standards for how loud your event needs to be. CDD Live 15 can objectively replace QSC KLA, and we feel that they even replace JBL VRX because while VRX is louder on paper, after having used it, it starts to have such a signficiant tonal change at high volumes that it's real-world not any louder than KLA or CDD Live 15 anyway
So, if you were to see a QSC KLA system with 3 boxes per side at a 1000 person homecoming and conclude that system is plenty powerful, then CDD Live 15 is perfect for you, *with one more consideration*. CDD Live 15 is so much cleaner than KLA that it *sounds* quieter, even though it's ultimate dB output is the same. If you want your system to *sound* loud even if it's not actually that loud, then this is not the speaker for you
@@dougberry4674 Thanks so much for the insight! This is helpful. Glad to hear the CDD's are serving you well.
VRX932LAP's are on the radar, but at 6a per box, that's the equivalent of running 3 KLA's. For reference, I'm usually limited to four or five circuits for _everything_ . Not sure there would be much benefit switching to a full KLA rig either without getting a bunch of them. Also, KLA/VRX are both 10+ year old designs, so I'm a bit wary to invest now when these product lines could get updated soon, or if there's something better after a decade of innovation. They've certainly proven to be reliable though.
Most dances are between 400-900 students. There's been some football games where it's +/- 1000 in the stands, but mainly playing for the student section up front. So these event sizes are right on the threshold. It's tough to shop for pro-grade gear because demos aren't as simple as going to a music store, and ordering online without hearing the speakers first is risky at this pricepoint 🙃
@@BrianDiener Your average event size is very similar to ours when we bought CDD Live 15, and having used them at everything from 100 people in a small club where we had tons of headroom, to an outdoor coverband event for 2000+ where they were loud enough *for the event* (obviously not remotely loud enough for an actual concert at that size), we have been super happy with every size audience we tried them at
If I were you, considering the size and style events you're doing, I would definitely go with CDD Live 15. Just make sure you deploy them at a proper height, the easiest thing being with something like a pair of DT-PRO4000s as ultra heavy duty speaker stands
If you're in the US, send us an email and we'd love to get you a quote! We are also dealers for JBL and QSC if you decide to do that route, but just to say it one last time, judging on my personal experience which I think relates to you, I think you would be happiest with CDD Live 15 just like us
I’ve been looking at the SM80s for weddings. I’ve heard they could easily cover a room 150, wide, for up for 650ish guests.
How do you think these Martins match up? Could I cover a room that wide with just two tops? And if so, any subwoofers you’d recommend?
Thanks!
Simply no chance sm80s would cover a room that wide. The CDDs are vastly wider than sm80s. They may do it, but even that may be a stretch.
In any case, we highly recommend the CDD Live 15s over the SM80s, that's why we switched ourselves!
The SXP218 is the ideal sub to pair with the CDD Live 15s.
If you're in the US, email me for a quote! doug@slmentertainment.com
You could do a center cluster of the SM80's if you're running a front truss and achieve 160° wide. That'd probably do it. The SM80's have great intelligibility at distance, as demonstrated by a ton of user videos on UA-cam.
The Martins can't just be "better" than the SM80's with a similar dispersion pattern at hitting a wide room if both setups have an LR placement. If one can't cover wide, neither can the other because it's physically not covering those areas.
yes they can you should always use subs regardless. and it does not hurt to run rear speakers as this means the volume level can be lower making for a better taking environment and when the party starts up, turn up the front of house up only. by using a sub this means the the tops can run as mid so they don't work hard as bass kills any speakers including the CDD live15 if your doing hard core music then you should use a linoray system. the subs best used are the CDD LIve15 are the cdd live double21" or single 21" as the 18" has to work to hard to keep up up the cddlive15 the double 18" is ok
We make our own custom length cables for passive speakers and line arrays. much easier then having to deal with the provided cable (majority of the time, they aren't the best quality, sometimes)
Who is this Alex impersonator?? I've been had. Awesome information, guys! Hard to find information/comparisons on pro gear in plain English :)
Hi !
I have Martin audio XD15 and F15
I could hear XP15 (the sound is very very good, for friends and me : better than Yamaha DZR15, Hk L5 115 mk2; RCF HDM 45a, Ld curv 500 TS)
(I made tests (in video on my channel)
My question is : does CDD live 15 sound better than XP 15 (on recorded music not live music) ?
(not to mention SPL level or coverage, just sound quality)
Thank you very much ! :-)
CDD is a big step up in quality over XP!
@@dougberry4674 Ok thank you very much !
I compared Martin audio xD15 vs xP15 (outside) xD15 (in bi-active mode) is more punchy, more details (later, test inside with also L acoustics X15 (with la4x and sub))
I am looking for: CDD; THS or FP
I missing a sound test. And i wanna see what's behind the grill! Further on, pretty looking speakers.
Unfortunately no sound test, but 14:24 has a picture of the speaker without a grill. The grill itself requires a lot of force to take off and is just held on with clamping force, so I figured just showing a stock photo was easier.
Ok thanks Alex. I think sound test will be in the next gig?
Yessir
Hey! How do you think the CDD LIVE 15s compare to the JBL SRX815p? I know they don't have the same coverage or not even the same class. But i can find them both for the same price and i want to know which can do the most spl without distortion. And if i would get the cdd how would they perform in a rave fest environment
If you are able to get CDD Live 15 for the same price as SRX815p, that's either an unbelievable deal on the CDD if they are that cheap or a total rip of the SRX if it's that expensive.
Go with the CDD. Several db louder, far less distortion, far better coverage, far better accessories (fly bracket, IP rain upgrade), better software with Dante and vu-net if you ever want that, etc.
We have used them for small rave like events up to several hundred people and they were excellent. SRX815 simply would not have done the events we have used our CDD for
how do they compare to the martin backline x powered series?
They're a solid step above Blackline X Powered in many ways. I'd call BXP a DJ/MI grade speaker, vs CDD Live is a professional grade speaker.
These are great sounding speakers, and you would be right in saying they don't compare to consumer speakers. At the same time though, they don't really compare anything... at all. When you were describing the coverage patterns of speakers, you were describing the coverage patterns that you would normally find in most speakers with a conventional horn. The CDDs, however, are a completely different ballgame. In both the DD and CDD series, DD and CDD means (Coaxial) Differential Dispersion. Differential being the key word here. The horizontal coverage actually varies depending on how close you are the speakers. The further away you are from the speaker, the narrower the pattern gets. The closer you are to the speaker, the wider the pattern gets. What you end up with (looking at the horizontal plane from a more 2D perspective) is not so much a triangle pattern more than it is a rectangular/trapezoid pattern, thus ensuring better side tot side coverage front to back. The vertical pattern is just as interesting. In conventional horns, your "on-axis" point would be in the center of the pattern (for example, in a horn with a 40 degree vertical pattern, you would have 20 degrees on either side of the on-axis point before being out of coverage). In the (C)DD series however, the on-axis point is nearly at the top of the coverage. I believe (from what I remember from a conversation with my dealer) the coverage from the on-axis point up is maybe 5 degrees and from the on-axis point down is 55 degrees (60 degrees total). The idea is to use the flying bracket to aim the on-axis point at the furthest back point in your intended audience area, again to ensure the smoothest coverage front to back and ALSO to minimize sound bleed past your intended coverage (for example, to minimize disturbing the neighbors in an outdoor gig or to avoid the back wall in poor acoustical environments on an indoor gig). In the vertical sense, it's kinda like Martin Audio's MLA, but it's all wrapped up in a neat point-source package. Hopefully this made sense (otherwise it's just the ramblings of a crazy person obsessed with audio technology, lol) Great video nonetheless, and great work unboxing and reviewing those nice fixtures. ;-)
I seriously appreciate your long write up and attempt to inform us of something that we weren't already aware of! Unfortunately, I was aware of everything you mentioned, except the specific on axis spot of the CDD.
When I was describing the coverage patterns, the biggest point I was trying to make was how the SM80 narrowed in coverage as it went up in frequency. One thing I didn't mention was how this problem is exacerbated by the fact that the SM80 has a conical coverage pattern, meaning you get even less even horizontal coverage in comparison to a speaker that has a trapezoidal coverage pattern.
For all of the gigs we've used the CDDs at so far we've done exactly what you described: pointing the on-axis point at the back of the crowd. Not exactly, but basically I've just been flying them pointing straight out as opposed to angling them down like I would with a traditional point source box. The incredibly even front to back coverage is absolutely stunning. I've never experienced anything like this out of a point source box before. It really is exactly like you describe: MLA style vertical coverage in a point source box, the only real difference being I don't have control over the CDD coverage, it's fixed as it is, plus low mid directivity but that's a whole other conversation to be had.
"plus low mid directivity but that's a whole other conversation to be had."
Indeed...
as a martin audio owner myself i find martin audio kit very natural sounding as you say need very tiny bits of eq and built to last
Built to last is true. We still have a couple of the old "Coffee Filters" stowed away lol. Drivers are rotten, but boxes are pristine.
Have you guys ever considered building your own speakers? This is exactly what I did and couldn’t be more happier. Price wise for one probably end up being a bit more than twice the price of the cdd’s, but sound wise maybe equivalent to 12 of these, but hard to tell. Sound wise and coverage should be comparable with better coverage from your speaker. I would actually like to know what you think of my build. Design wise Its somewhat comparable to the wpl from Martin audio but instead used as a point source and also using better components. For instance I’m not sure if you know or have heard of this compression driver, but I’m using a bms 4599he for mid range, highs 4 ciare ct440 and mid bass 2 B&c 15nw76 in a horn/ reflex design like the wpl.
We have definitely talked about making our own speakers, a bit too complex to get in to on a UA-cam comment. I will say we wouldn't make something that can necessarily replace a CDD in every way, especially it's differential dispersion coverage, but there are some things we would address on our speakers that the CDD is lacking
@@dougberry4674 is there a way we could chat in private I have one or two questions if you wouldn’t mind. Thx
Have a look at the montarbo's w17as, 35kg weight, AB amplification, old school speakers but their sound is pretty impressive
Take a look at the LD Stinger G3 series flybracket for the 12" and 15" models, similar in funktion, but quick connectors instead of screws :) Sure, the speaker is of course not in the same class they are pretty good though), but the flybracket seems great. I'm ordering a couple of those brackets soon :)
So how much for a pair? + shipping to Baltimore MD? Thanks Great sale points.
Please email us and we'll get you a private quote!
Could you do some more gig logs
They're on the way!
I would prefer the Rcf NX-45, at lower price and better weight, it is also extremely noisy and it sounds so good that I would say that it is in the range of the best
I would say both the NX and the CDD are around the same class in terms of output and price (similarly priced) just likely with a big sound quality difference. The RCF uses a bigger HF driver (4" vs 3" in the CDD) crossed an octave lower (700hz vs 1500hz), so my guess is I'd prefer the sound of the CDD while both boxes would be similar in output.
However, the unique coverage pattern of the CDD I feel would destroy the traditional coverage pattern of the RCF. It really doesn't hit you how good the CDD coverage is until you walk the room and bask in the ridiculous consistency.
Hey alex, you have tried the new WPM system, what are your expectations, I would like to know if they are so powerful to be so small, I have not seen any recording of a real demonstration of them in action, they could be compared to the Nexo Geo M10? Thank
WPM is insane. Martin Audio brought Doug and I out to Nashville, TN to get a demo of the full Wavefront Precision line (MLA also happened to be there for other reasons, but we still got to hear that too). At the demo, on a live multitrack mix of a Sting song, we measured WPM to do over 104dBA at around 150 feet distance (indoors in a relatively well treated tour pre-staging venue) with 8 boxes per side in 2 box resolution, and the array still had around 6dB left before any of the boxes started limiting. It also sounds unbelievably good. Like, in limit it doesn't sound like it's in limit, which seems to be a common trait of Martin Audio loudspeakers (same for the CDD). It also doesn't have the typical "line array" sound to me, which I think is due to their processing.
It's funny that you want to compare WPM to the Geo M10, as we also heard that box at InfoComm last year. It was the only demo that we went to, out of like 15+ other demos, that had noticeable HF breakup distortion at relatively low levels. Like probably 98dBA at 30ft or something with 8 boxes a side and had the most distortion we heard at all of InfoComm. That's not to say it had a lot of distortion, just the most out of everything we heard at InfoComm. IMO, Geo M10 doesn't compare to WPM in terms of overall quality, as well as WPM's processing puts it in a completely different league all together. Wavefront Precision is a new breed of line array, and because of its processing you can't really compare it to traditional line arrays. The only other competitor WP has would be d&b line arrays (J, V, Y), WITH Array Processing. Beyond that, there's just EAW Anya, Anna, and Martin Audio MLA series. The amount of control WP gives you over the vertical coverage, as compared to traditional line arrays, is revolutionary.
Great video. Thanks for sharing.
I am a DJ based in Maryland. I am planning to get a speaker for my mobile events.
Do you suggest this speaker for mobile DJ?
What is the best Sub speaker for this?
Have you compared this speaker to RCF's Evox 12?
I absolutely recommend this speaker for mobile djs if you are doing larger rooms, or just want extremely high quality sound
However, they are best when paired with subwoofers like the Martin Audio SXP218. These need dual 18s to pair with them
They are not comparable to RCF Evox 12. Completely different product and performance categories. The Evox is far quieter, had a different frequency range, different coverage pattern, and in our opinion has worse tonality
We're up in Harrisburg PA, so if you want a demo, send us an email!
What did you think about the Blackline F12+? I'm debating picking a pair up. Great video!
We've never heard the F12+, sorry.
Don't necessarily agree with the powercon without a cable thing. Martin, and heaps of other companies, ship world wide. It's easier and cheaper to just throw a connector in rather than make sure that the right box has the right end for the place where they're shipping to. Example, DJ City are the distributors for Chauvet in Australia. They open every one of their boxes and replace the US cable with an Australian one. Not having a cable eliminates this problem.
yeah i forgot about the whole international connectors thing. my point still stands generally why the reason they don't send you a cable is because you make your own, which is what the core of my point was, even though i wasn't specifically correct on the reasoning. same deal, make your own cable = also use your own countries power plug
Yes your back finally !!!!!!
Hey Guys! Thanks for the detailed unboxing.... I just placed an order for 4 of these bad boys and a couple sxp218's and was wondering how large an audience will this setup be appropriate for. I haven't been able to listen to them due to living remotely(ish) but from what I gathered, they will due for my purposes (small events featuring electronic music, mostly). Do you think 4 would power an event for 300 people? Thanks!!
I have a question for you. You go out and spend 10k on four of these and 10k for a pair of 218 bass bins + what ever outboard gear and rigging you might need, and NOW you ask what size venue they can play, and you haven't heard them? You say you can't listen because you live too far away, but yet you are willing to fork out 20+ grand for speakers? Dude, include 800$ for a plane ticket and a one night hotel stay as part of your investment.
How on earth do you do your business model? You buy a system without knowing what you need and can do with it? You know what size events you do, so you buy according to that. If you are unsure, you better talk to the manufacture prior to ordering a system. Also, two 218's for four of these? I can tell you right now that unless you play 250 ppl gigs, those 218's won't get you far with four of these on top. If you're playing say a place where the center of the floor is 30 feet from each 218, you are looking at what, 112 db cont. at best when headroom, a crowd and heat soak is taken into consideration. Those 112 is being generous by the way.
In earnest, and please be honest. Are you for real, or just a guy on youtube bragging? Because that is the most insane business model I have ever seen in pro audio.
I would not use four of these to cover the same part of an audience. I would only use four in a deployment where you need to cover an extremely wide audience area, say like 180+ degrees of coverage. No overlap between speakers
That being said, yes these can be used for an audience of 300 people, but it also depends on how loud you feel like it needs to be and how much headroom you want
Nice buy guys! I'm excited for what the future brings to you guys. I do have one question though.... When are you guys getting L-Acoustics K1? xD
Never! But forreal tho, probably never, as Martin makes competing products that perform better in our opinion. Wavefront Precision is insanely powerful, and AFAIK there literally isn't a competing product on the market right now, especially at their price point. Our next step is probably gonna be WPM, which we've measured 8 a side to do 110dBA on music at 150 feet away, so that will cover damn near every project we'll be taking on for quite a while.
I understand! K1 is extremely expensive and very large. With very few exceptions, I've been very pleased when listening to, and mixing on, a Martin system. Especially their MLA line. I am personally quite impressed at the technology Martin implements into their product. Not to mention that few companies are able to achieve this without "cheaping out" or overpricing their product. Do you plan on expanding all (or most of) your inventory to Martin? Or just keep the Martin gear for the larger events?
Even without talking about price, I'd rather have a Wavefront Precision system over any L-Acoustics system, simply for the fact that you get WAY more control (if you want to) over the Martin system than the L-Acoustics system. I just don't like how L-Acoustics has completely oversimplified their software to the point of having near 0 control over your arrays, for the sake of being extremely fast to setup and super easy to use. IMO Display can be just as easy (plug in your venue dimensions, box type/amount, array position, and drop in dB over distance and then the software does everything else for you), but it also allows you full control over just about everything if you want that control.
As for our inventory, as we expand more than likely the only gear we'll have that won't be Martin will be our ZLX's and ETX system for the smallest of events. Everything else will probably be Martin. Now if Martin made a good single 18" sub, I don't think we'd be holding onto our ETX system.
What are these like VS d&b v, y and epoint sources?
They are very comparable to Y point series. We've not done a head to head, but I suspect they would give V point series a run for their money too
Great video, gig logs gig logs!!
sweet speakers! Doug and the crew due to how large your events are instead of getting small individual speakers you should invest on a much louder line array.
Considering the realistic size of most of our current events, having a line array would not be beneficial in almost all regards, and only make setup more difficult.
Alex Berry true, but in the future. I expect in maybe like three years time u guys will have so much equipment that u will even have your own stage and huge trussing imagine one of those out door events with big line arrays and big stage systems u will probably end like that in years time
Well sure, but that's down the line, not what we're doing right now.
A comparison with Adamson Point Series?!;)
Cedar cliff mini thon is the video coming?
Have you seen the Yamaha DZR315 three-way speakers? They are solid, I think they are vastly better than the EV ETX speakers and cost less. Yamaha DXS18XLF subs are quite decent too. Still no Martin.
I actually don't think I've ever seriously hear any Yamaha pro speakers before.
I guess now is a good time to ask this question regarding speakers lol. I am a mobile DJ and my main gigs are/will be school dances. I already have ZLX15Ps and EKX18SPs by EV, but in terms of looking at upgrades, I might get 2 ETX35Ps and 4 ETX18SPs. I would use the ETX system with my ZLXs pointed inward, because the coverage of the ETX35Ps are only 60 degrees. Am I thinking correctly about this in terms of evenly distributed sound? I have learned much of what I know by watching y'alls videos and reading comments, but I am no expert.
Also, I am a one man crew, so I cannot really justify getting Martin CDD15s over something like Danley TH118s yet. That's why I decided on EV.
This is a long response, but I highly value your opinions. Thanks in advance!
You're 100% thinking about that correctly. That'll be a killer system!
If i were you i would get jbl vrx918 for the subs.... but since you run ev, go for it!
Keep in mind vrx918sp is more expensive, lighter but better sounding. But again since your running ev tops, better get ev subs as well.
Have you tested KLA series (QSC?) I'v personally never tried them but a small line array format would be really good for your aplications I imagine. Not saying they are better than the Martins (they probably aren't), but I would like to listen your opinions about them.
We've not tested KLA, but we've heard it multiple times and have absolutely 0 plans to test it in the future. I've also mixed on a VRX932 (passive) system (3 a side tops, 8 subs) and was not a very big fan of that system either.
KLA and VRX, two of the most popular products right now in constant curvature (not line array, as they are not line arrays) just don't sound very good, tops nor subs. They both suffer pretty badly from perceived loudness through distortion, which is quite literally painful to listen to and damages your hearing.
Besides all of that though, constant curvature, or a small line array for that matter, would only complicate setup/take longer to setup, as well as would add weight to what our cranks would need to be able to handle. And on top of that, they wouldn't provide any benefits to most of the events we're currently doing.
The only small line array I'd look into using for a lot of the events we currently do would be Martin Audio WPM, because it's very light, very easy to setup, and not exactly a traditional line array. But either way, it would end up costing the client a hell of a lot more money than CDD 15's, so it probably wouldn't get used very much for most of the events we currently do.
Thank you for the detailed answer. Obviously Martin makes way higher range products but I never tought the KLA's are that bad (never used them but assumed they would be decent).
It depends on your standards, really. I think KLA sounds worse than VRX, and at 50ft distance with 3 a side VRX I wasn't able to push the system past 98dBA without sounding really painful, even with the tuning that I did. It just has too much distortion.
To add to that, while mixing a band and having Doug next to me it sounded very loud, yet Doug and I were able to carry on a conversation pretty easily. This is the easiest sign of a system that is giving you perceived loudness through distortion. With a completely distortion free system that sounds loud, you'll need to scream at the person standing next to you in order to talk to them.
Some people live and die by the QSC sound, they love that "crunch/pain" and perceived loudness that you get through the distortion the boxes produce. Personally, I absolutely hate it, for multiple reasons. One, I just don't think it sounds good, plus it literally is painful to listen to. And two, that kind of distortion quite literally does damage to your hearing. A distorted sound system will do more hearing damage at a lower SPL than a completely distortion free system at a higher SPL. With our distortion free systems, I can't remember the last time I walked away from one of our gigs with my ears ringing. However, just about every concert I've ever been to I've walked away with my ears ringing like crazy.
I'll absolutely investigate that, thanks for your input.
For me, I mostly use point-source speakers for live sound; mostly QSC K12.2s (that's what we - never ran them anywhere near limiter, so I had headroom. For me they have a few compromises but they sound great and hold up well. In an ideal world, I would use a system that I think sounds the best. But on small to medium size events in the area I live, being able to push down prices is essential (sadly). So that's why we rock QSC point source in almost every event. (Alternatives are EV ZXA/ZLX but I don't like and therefore avoid them)
You should have put these against the RCF TT Range....
The TT 25-a should be worthy of comparison in terms of volume, although it doesn't have the differential dispersion coverage, is not coaxial, has fewer and worse accessories such as a complete lack of a fly bracket and a rain kit, and is much more expensive anyway
Whether or not the sound is "better" I'm sure just comes down to preference. Essentially nothing at this performance tier sounds "bad" from any manufacturer, but we have always preferred the sound of Martin over RCF and I don't think this would be an exception, even setting aside all the other factors I mentioned first
Hey Alex is a DBX Driverack a must for part-time DJ's.....I have 2 ZLX 12P's and 2 ETX 15P's with 2 EVX Subs
I'm not familiar with the EVX subs, do you mean ELX subs? Either way, only time an external processor is necessary IMO is when you have passive gear being powered with an amp that doesn't have any built in DSP.
Thanks Alex for your reply...much appreciated.. the subs are the EV ZXA1 Subs.... I decided to buy 3 in substitute for 2, 18" Subs...easier to hall around --the 12's on my back much easier.....( I'm older than your dad), But with the ETX 15P's, and the 3, 12" subs getting enough low frequency punch with that set up.
Can't wait to see the new Martins in use with your coming GIG Logs
I always use a DriveRack for PEQ and RTA, and Anti-Feedback. Also does the crossovers. I do nothing internally On my Powered tops. I have passive subs.
Martin Audio makes some great sounding productions for sure! If you are impressed with this, you should check out the d&b audiotechnik V7P or V10P!
I only heared the martin audio h3t and they are monsters XD
Why do you guys prefer coaxial? I haven't tried them myself, I'm only using the more basic MI grade stuff, but is there a secret to why you choose coaxial that might change quite a lot about the performance at a gig?
Well to be honest, we didn't pick these boxes because they're coax. We picked them because they're the only boxes that get this loud, sound this good (distortion and tonality wise), and are this general size/weight at this price point. There really aren't that many boxes on the market period that get this loud at this form factor.
As for why is coaxial cool, starting at about 11:41 I actually talk about a big downside of coax stuff and how Martin is unique in how they solved that problem. Aside from that, without special design and serious tuning, regular MI grade stuff, with the HF horn and LF driver separated in either the X or Y axis (X axis being side to side, Y axis being up and down, Z axis being front to back), has coverage inconsistencies through the frequency response. So like as you move around in the coverage pattern of the box the frequency response will shift. This is because the HF and LF drivers are separated by space, causing phase cancellation at different frequencies varying throughout the coverage pattern.
With coaxial, you solve this problem by putting the HF and LF driver in the same place in the X and Y axis. Since the only way they're separated by physical space is in the Z axis, which you can fix with a tiny amount of simple signal delay, you eliminate those coverage issues, and by extension, also get a more true sound out of the box. Like, coax boxes just sound better. This is cause all of the sound coming out of the box is coming from the exact same place in physical space. This is pretty much as close to a true point source as you can get. Another good example of that would be Danley Sound Labs Synergy horns.
However, it's absolutely worth mentioning that you can solve those same issues in a non-coaxial box, just with a lot more complicated methods. For example, the EV ZLX, and especially the EV ETX, both sound like coaxial boxes. This is because they physically time aligned the HF and LF drivers in both boxes as well as they could, which did a good amount for the ZLX, but with the ETX they go way further with extremely in depth FIR filtering to digitally time align the HF and LF drivers. So the ETX line doesn't have any coverage inconsistencies, because the box is aligned so well. The ZLX is good, way better than your typical MI grade box, but not on the level of the ETX. Like the ETX quite literally sounds like a coaxial box. It was weird, the first time I noticed it, because it sounded like all of the sound coming out of the speaker was all coming out of where the HF driver is located. Like everything from 100Hz and up.
Another good point I should add is that none of this talks about overall frequency response, or THD (distortion) when pushing the boxes hard. You can absolutely have a non-coaxial, non-time aligned box that has really nice components and sounds incredible (even freq response, low distortion) that will sound way better than a cheap, poorly designed coaxial box (uneven freq response, high distortion). But, all things being equal, a coax will sound better.
If I didn't touch on what you really wanted to hear about, just let me know and I'll do my best to answer any other questions you have.
So really the best box to look for is one that is very well time aligned between the drivers, rather than coaxial. Would this eliminate the passive stuff, such as the EV SX100, which are legendary speakers as far as I've heard, or would some of these have a special crossover in them that does the time alignment?
Not at all. The best box to look for is one that fits your needs. By that I mean something that is the right size/weight, has the right SPL output, sounds good in your opinion, and especially, is the right price.
IMO, sound quality in general (frequency response and distortion levels when pushed hard) is MUCH more important than a well time aligned box. Sure, something like the ETX sounding like a coax even though it's not is cool, but I'd rather have a loud, great sounding speaker that isn't specially time aligned than a speaker that sounds OK but has great alignment.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what the speaker is or what kind of processing (if any) it has if it fits your needs and sounds good to you. Time alignment has never been a consideration for me when buying speakers. It's like the final cherry on top. For example, the Martin Audio X12 speaker is a budget friendly, loud, 12" 2 way top that isn't time aligned at all, has frequency response inconsistencies throughout the coverage pattern, and I wouldn't hesitate using it on a regular basis if it fit my needs for the gigs I were doing because it sounds phenomenal (due to higher grade components).
To reiterate that point, and repeating what I said earlier, we didn't buy the CDD because it was a coax or because of the alignment or anything like that. We bought it because it gets loud enough for what we need to do, sounds great, has great coverage (not talking about alignment), is the correct size and weight, and was the right price. Hell, even the flying bracket was a bigger consideration than the fact it's coaxial.
Quite some time ago you mentioned in one of your video's that you weren't completely satisfied with the performance and sound quality of the ETX 18sp's. You planned to explain this in a review video, but that never happend. It sounds now that your opinion somewhat changed. I'm curious, did you change you mind? And if so, why?
review is still coming, and i'm still not satisfied overall with them, but in the price bracket, there's no better powered single 18. they're literally the subs we use for our absolute smallest packages
@@dougberry4674 review? Altough you sold it
Will there still be a review?
Martin audio is crazy. Have you heard the H3+ I mean we own them, so we think they are cool besides the weight, but if you have heard them what do you think?
What do you guys think about jbl srx828sp subs (its impossible for me to get martin audio products)
What do you think can contest the srx828sp for the price has to be active tho
Pretty much nothing can compete with 828SP for the price. If that's your budget, that's probably the best you can do for the money. They're really not that great of subs, but they're good enough for the money.
@@alexberry3833 👍👍👍
They are very nice indeed.
How are they angled when flown two or three deep?
I think the whole consumer vs. pro is a really odd thing to be honest. There are some stellar "consumer" grade speakers out there that from a sonic standpoint can compete with the industry standard stuff. Not much, but some. On the flipside there is some industry standard stuff that sounds like utter crap - yes I'm looking at you EAW, L'Acoustics and JBL!. Obviously some of those consumer grade speakers will not survive the rigours of the pro world, but some of the D.A.S and KS Audio as well as the Blackline stuff for example, is shockingly good sounding.
But anyway, the CDD is a really awesome blend of old and new. They get the sound out of the box like an old TMS3 did, which is something just about no PA speaker does any more. It is rare to go to an event these days and hear a sound system that disappears. Martin, Void and F1 are probably the only ones left that still manages this tricky feat.
Quite impressed with the L'Acoustics arcs I heard, though would like to hear single boxes for utmost fidelity. Also quite impressed with the Shermann Audio boxes I've heard.
Like other point sources with approx 90x60 coverage patterns, these are not something you can deploy 2 or 3 of in an array
What do you guys think about the l-acoustics 12xt vs the CDD 15? I’ve heard lacoustics is in another league.
L acoustics is a competing brand for sure but the 12xt is a bit old. The main differences are that it's a 12 inch LF instead of 15, it's 4-5db quieter, it's not powered, doesn't have a fly bracket like the CDD universal bracket, and it has a traditional coax driver so the coverage will be dramatically worse than the differential dispersion on CDD. You can definitely pick up used 12xt for a great price so if you don't need a new product with warranty and the other features CDD offers it could be a good purchase
That being said, I have not heard the 12xt, so I don't have any thoughts on the tonality. I have heard the X12 and X15 though which of course sound great, but I would still prefer CDD Live 15 personally mainly for the better coverage, not to mention the cost difference
@@dougberry4674 Thanks for the fast reply! The specs of the speakers say the La is 1db louder, 132 for the CDD and 133 for the 12xt. I’ve heard great things about them. I’m switching from ETX and 12xt/sb18 with la8 looked like a nice set. The only disadvantage is the price ofcourse :)
@@sndr7957 LA rates their speakers in crest factor 4, which means their peak SPL rating shows 12db louder than their continuous. Martin rates in crest factor 2 so their peak only shows 6db louder, but it's all relative. So you can just apply crest factor 4 to Martin and add 6db to the peak rating, but it's a better real world spec to always use continuous SPL ratings not peak, so in that case you have to remove 12db from LA peak vs removing 6db from Martin peak, which reveals that the LA is 5db quieter than the CDD live 15
@@dougberry4674mmm, i’ve never knew that.. thanks for the explanation! So to compete with the CDD you need an arcs focus or something like that? And another question, would you rather have an 12xt set or a bassboss dv12 set? Both with subs.
@@sndr7957 arcs is a better comparison to CDD live 15 for sure but in fact a bit louder. Especially the new a15. Bassboss vs 12xt it depends on cost really, but I would personally invest in LA over bassboss
You guys sound like you have a vendetta against Danley and the SM80s!
tried to make it not sound like that, it's simply that the cdds are better in a lot of ways, and they cost less. sm80s are great though! lighter, 3db louder, good for long narrow venues, and some people will definitely prefer the sound of them
Do the CDD Live 12’s have the same waveguide?
They do!
Congrats guys , those are really good speakers , the cost is still very accesible , at the price point is probably the best you can get , I like the Danley's sm 80's as well , I am surprise you did not like them , they are pretty flat sounding out of the box , you need to eq them just to your taste , I hear you about the 80 degree conical dispersion , not good in really wide rooms , you definitly need front fills in the kind of events you do , I own Jbl vp series and I like them a lot , I have heard really good things on fulcrum self powered speakers.
Are you guys thinking in getting new subwoofers also ? those ev etx are good sounding , but they are just way too deep , I like the jbl srsx818 at that price point , the box that I like a lot and own is the Danley TH118 , I run 4 of them on a single powersoft k10 , I really recommend those if you are looking to get some.
Good luck to all of you.
Although the main reason we got rid of the SM80's had nothing to do with sound quality, I will completely disagree with you that they are flat sounding out of the box. There's a decent amount of 400hz or so 1 octave wide jumping out, as well as some unruly 2khz and a lot of HF diaphragm breakup distortion around 6khz. IMO they are not acceptable if run with 0 EQ. However, after tuning, they do sound fantastic, which is why sound quality was not one of the reasons for us replacing them.
I think you may have missed the point about the dispersion. I would have been totally happy if it was actually 80 degrees conical throughout the entire operating bandwidth. But it's not, its like 40 degrees up in the HF, which makes it not a very practical/versatile box.
We are looking at getting new subwoofers. Our ETX subs have never been our main subs and only go out with the 12P tops. We're looking at getting a pair of Martin SXH218 as they're only about 2dB quieter than the 4 double 18's we currently rent on a regular basis, which are actually almost identical in output to the TH118.
Wow have you tried the new SXH218, 148db seems crazy, are they as strong as two th118 or equal?
I think that with 1 you can only cover one sound on the school's court
Have not heard the SXH218, but I have heard MLX which uses the same exact cabinet design and it is the most insane single cabinet double 18" sub I've ever heard. I also trust the SXH218 specs, so yes one SXH218 is 1dB short of the output of two TH118.
it better be close to two th118's , the size and weight is almost twice and the cost is almost three times more expensive.
To make it clear, 2 Th118 weigh around 160kg vs 124kg, each costs around $ 3000 plus the amplifier that has to be of good quality, a QSc PL380 2700 $, in total would be $ 8700, the SXH218 more compact, having lower weight, it is deeper and lower and 1db more powerful, plus it seems more incredible and beautiful
Make some another gig log please
I want to join like that
How much cdd live12
Nice speakers... With the size of the events your doing I am surprised you didn't go with renting in some tour grade RCF. Still great choice...
Coverage patterns always needed to be watched hence why I went with a QSC K10 for most events...
RCF simply doesn't make anything that competes with these in terms of price, volume, and form factor
It's tough to say "what size event" we'll use these at because it depends how loud we need it to be. we could use them in a 1000 person room or for 10,000 people outdoors again depending on how loud we need it to be
Doug Berry nice way of thinking... That's why I had used the term of "RENTING"... I just did a 4,000 person event with the following all RCF...
1 X SUB 9006-AS
1 X SUB 8006-AS (I believe)
2 X RCF - 4PRO 5031-A (I believe)
It was nuts... I'll share a video on your Facebook page...
Trust me I get it....
That sounds pretty underpowered for a 4k person event IMO. These CDD 15s look to be equivalent in output on paper to the 4PRO 5031, and depending on the event I probably wouldn't use them for anything more than like 1k people.
I'm not even sure what model the tops were however they had plenty of SPL size of the room we had... D.A.S. makes some pretty sick stuff as well. If you send me a message on Facebook I'll share the videos from the event for ya
@@dougberry46741000 people for a pair of cdd live 15 (with subs) seems enormously over rated. I wouldn’t use cdd’s live 15 for anything over 250-300 people for a concert application. For reference I’m using for my small events a pair of pm90’s with 4 21 inch horn’s for anything below 500 people. The pm90’s (designed by Peter Morris which consists of 2 18 sound 12 inch NMB1000 with a b&c dcx464) would run around 135db continuous so around 10 db more than the CDD live 15.
This video is not a real comparison side by side with the DSL SM80's. it is just an overview of the CDD-Live 15's.
The sample of the SM80's in use is distorted that you can't hear anything in definition of quality and pattern control.
The use the SM80's and i never experienced such a narrowing in the high frequency.
they are both great cabinets i believe. i wish to see a side by side comparison between the CDD-Live 15 and the SM80's. + measured data of the coverage angles.
You're absolutely right, it's not a comparison with the SM80's. It's an overview of the CDD, just like the title says. It also includes our impressions of the CDD, and an explanation of why we switched from the SM80, as the title also says.
You are objectively wrong, though, about the sample of the SM80's in use. The small amount of distortion does nothing to cover up the fact that the midrange frequencies are very reverberant and the high frequencies are not. Maybe I'm just some kind of extra-dimensional god when it comes to analyzing audio, because I can clearly hear the phenomenon, but I doubt that. Can you really not make out the fact that the lyrics in the vocals are extremely hard to understand while the trumpets and hi-hats are defined?
I'm very surprised that you haven't run into a similar issue having worked with the SM80's yourself. We owned our pair for something like 2 years and it was something we noticed at nearly every single event we used them at. I say nearly because there was one event where we used them in a tiny room so the narrow coverage was not an issue or apparent. Also, during our A/B comparison with the CDD it was very obvious while walking the room that the SM80 did not have consistent coverage while the CDD did. Perhaps you should try to arrange a demo for yourself to see what you're missing!
How loud do they get in comparison to the SM80s?
considering the tuning required on the sm80s (to our standards), basically identical
They're rated to be 3dB quieter than the SM80s, but the amp we were using on our SM80's could only give them half continuous power, so for us they're identical.
Here is a comparison. These against Meyer Sound UPQ-1P.
that's a mostly valid comparison. UPQ-1Ps are definitely louder, but they're also way heavier and way more expensive
however, martin XE series monitors are even louder than UPQ-1Ps. the xe300, 12 inch, is 4db louder than the meyer, and the xe500, 15 inch, is 7DB LOUDER FREAKIN 137 CONTINUOUS! I've suggested to martin engineers that they put the drivers from their XE monitors into a normal mains speaker form factor and coverage pattern. if they did that, we would probably pick up some of those beasts
Meyer... you may find a better speaker but you would never find a more expensive one... seriously you can’t compare much to Meyer in terms of sound quality.
what about the UPA - 1P?
i’ve been looking at a used pair. $2800 landed to my door.
is it worth saving the extra $ for something else?
@@chrissymostuy UPA-1P is definitely a good speaker. They are loud and will get the job done and will have some nice highs up to about 17.5k. if you can get together about $12-14k I would highly recommend the Ultra-X40. They are lighter and louder and reach up to 18.5k. it's our go-to rental speaker for corporate and small events that don't need line arrays.
What mix is that of September?
Its a remix by Throttle i believe.
do you mind explaining the tuning with the SM80? I thought with the "Danley design", almost no processing or tuning is required and they sound great out of the box? Seriously looking at getting a pair, but you got my attention.
“I thought with the "Danley design", almost no processing or tuning is required and they sound great out of the box?”
Yea that's just more marketing mumbo jumbo. Some people like the sound of SM80's just like some people like the sound of QSC K12s and JBL VRX923LA. Personally I hate the sound of the latter two boxes, but the SM80 I can get sounding really nice with tuning.
Now to be fair, AFAIK the SM80 is kind of an outlier in terms of overall sound compared to most of Danley's other products. It’s kind of a basic design and really isn’t a “synergy horn”.
I personally prefer a natural, balanced, flat sound with a slight emphasis on "sparkle", aka 10kHz+. So, by extension, I don't like speakers that put a heavy emphasis on any particular bandwidth, like for example a low mid heavy speaker. I also hate a speaker that is physically painful to listen to at high output, AKA something that has a lot of high frequency breakup distortion, and by extension perceived loudness through distortion.
With that in mind, here's a screenshot of the EQ I would apply to the SM80s to get them sounding nice *to me* at nearly every event we used them:
drive.google.com/open?id=1ts3juaDSJ1i87XKjh32Iui_RuUyKN4m4
Also keep in mind that that curve was done with the boxes run 3db down from max continuous power. It would vary slightly gig to gig, but that was generally the tuning that I felt I had to do so that the speakers weren't offending me. That specific curve would also probably be different if I attempted tuning the SM80 today, as I’ve gotten better at tuning speakers to sound how I want them to.
The CDD Live 15, on the other hand, generally requires 0 tuning before it sounds really nice to me. Sometimes if I have some extra headroom I'll add in a touch of 500-2khz and pull out a little HF breakup distortion around 6kHz. But, the breakup distortion is already *very* low compared to nearly everything else out on the market (including the SM80), and running the box at maximum output with 0 tuning provides a phenomenal end result, in my opinion. In comparison, running the SM80 at maximum output with 0 tuning doesn’t even come close to touching the level of quality the CDD Live 15 produces, again in my opinion.
All of this doesn’t even touch the fact that the SM80’s narrow high frequency dispersion makes the box unusable for most applications IMO. Or the fact that the CDD Live 15 is at worst only 3db quieter, powered with peak and thermal limiters for the HF and LF drivers independently, cheaper, and has superior coverage. I mean the asymmetric coverage pattern alone makes the CDD almost entirely unique and extremely attractive. There’s also the flyware accessories to consider (which the CDD’s is vastly superior to the SM80’s), as well as all of the extra benefits that come from having such a high quality amp module in the CDD like Dante, full parametric EQ, remote control, etc.
If you really want some serious Powerful and Genuine Quality Speakers. Check out the New Yorkville EF15P Tops. They are some serious Quality, way better than the speaker you bought. And if you need a top notch subwoofer, check out the ES18P, I can guarantee you, you will not find a sub as nearly as good as it.
The quality is so different I should say....
The quality is so different I should say....
I would say qsc and jbl is definitely professional, they both have cheaper lines like jbl eon and qsc k.2, but they also have there pro grade stuff like the jbl srx or vertex, and qsc kw, kla, and e series.
that wasn't the point of "pro grade" vs "MI" like I explained at 1:48 in the video where i say that you can use their speakers for professional applications. it's also not a matter of "I would say X brand is professional" because it's not an opinion. objectively, CDD Live 15s are a pro grade product, not an MI grade product.
"pro grade" vs "MI" grade are just different terms manufacturers and brands use to describe basically something any average consumer can buy at guitar center vs things you need to buy from a specific equipment dealer. there are also a variety of differences between "pro grade" vs "MI" grade speakers like how accurate the specifications of the speaker are on the product sheet, different marketing techniques, different target customers, different price bracket, and of course a different level of performance by the product.
while qsc, jbl, ev, yamaha, mackie, behringer, alto, community, etc etc etc, all make products marketed as "professional speakers" which are used by genuine audio professionals, (and they do make some series of "pro grade" products), they are technically *by definition* making mostly MI grade products which the vast majority of people are familiar with like the ETX series, K and KW seires, SRX, Eon, DSR and DXR, etc etc etc.
martin audio is a *by definition* pro grade brand like danley, d&b, l acoustics, meyer, eaw, adamson, etc etc etc, because the VAST majority of their products are pro grade not MI grade.
JBL SRX, QSX KW and E series are all MI grade boxes, not pro level stuff. As for KLA and Vertec, both companies in recent times have been focusing much more heavily on their MI grade products as opposed to their pro grade stuff. Vertec I'd definitely consider pro, while KLA I'd say is like right on the line, more along the lines of entry level pro. And while both companies do still make pro level stuff, both of them put a lot more effort and marketing into their MI grade stuff.
Alex Berry In my understanding of mi vs pro I would consider the jbl eon, mackie thump, and terrible Harbinger's mi speakers, but I wouldn't really consider anything qsc mi, I have looked at the parts and drivers from many qsc boxes and they have very high end parts and are built very well. I also have never where I live seen qsc marketed as consumer or low end speakers. Just because you have to special order something from a distributor doesn't mean that it's better than something you could buy at Guitar Center or Sam Ash.
you're totally right that just because you can't buy it at guitar center it's automatically better or worse, but the point is that mi and pro grade in this situation are just labels. nothing more. they're a way to, as a rule of thumb, understand some general details about a given product.
again, it's not a situation of "i think this is MI or not", qsc products, except for wide line, are by definition MI grade products. even though they are a solid product and can indeed be used in professional applications, they are still under the label of MI
Hey guys if you really wanted a MI speaker or professional brand you should look to more accepted brands in riders than Martin, like Adamson, d&b audiotechnik or L’Acoustics. I own a d&b Y series + b6 subwoofer and also an L’Acoustics KARA + SB18. I have heard Martin Audio speakers and they don’t sound nearly as good as any of the brands I mentioned above.
Bara haragonyo tu yuang.....
now for a Kara and sb28 rig wink* wink*
Nah please not!
yoo check out das audio event dual subwoofers
the das event series doesn't compare to the dual 18s martin audio makes. the event series is an affordable line of products which does not perform as well as the competing martin products
the only subwoofer from das that i have experience with and know competes with martin products is the ux-218, but it is way more expensive than the competing products from martin that perform just as well *or better* for the same price
Doug Berry you know what is better than martin audio subs McCauley subs they make this box with four 21 inch subs in the box they need two amplifiers per box
Doug Berry these are all the products that i think are the best. jbl, das audio, martin audio, Qsc, McCauely, kv2 audio, fbt, forceon audio, turbo sound, electro voice, eaw, cerwin vega, db technologies, Rcf and community. and amplifiers Lab Gruppen, powersoft, crown and Qsc
"better" is complicated. is it a bigger sub that gets louder? maybe. but it's also huge and super expensive. danley makes some HUGE subs, and so does hennessey sound design, but there are a lot of factors to saying it's better or worse. plus, the fact that it needs two amplifiers is not a good thing, that's a bad thing. that's super inconvenient. i'd rather have a hennessey battleaxe.
i also can't find any info on this quad 21 anyway.
i would say kv2, martin, d&b, l acoustics, electro voice, hennessey sound design. void, eaw, danley, jbl, das, db technologies, turbo sound, qsc and then i have no experience with the other brands
amps i would say linea research, powersoft, lab gruppen, qsc, crown
FUCK YES FINALLY MARTIN AUDIO NOW GET McCauley subs
Why?
Because those thing will blow your balls off im just saying the truth. and ps you guys need to start using linearrays because linearrays can throw more far to the back without turning it up to loud and punishing the people in the front....
While I don't feel like writing a really long reply about line arrays, basically for the events we're doing right now we really don't need them for the reason you're describing. As for McCauley subs, having 0 experience with them and really not knowing anything about them, looking at the website and seeing basically 0 specs on their products + no spec sheets is a huge red flag for me. Not to mention there really don't seem to be any breathtaking designs, they seem to just be more run of the mill bass reflex boxes. We have some plans for subs that will actually be nuts, so keep an eye out for that!
If you actually LOOK at the measured data/polar responses, you will see several things.
For one thing the SM80s do not go down to 40*, closer to 60* but only over a limited range, next the martin gets narrower than the Sm80 at just above 10Khz, Look at the sound coming off of the rear of the box, and you will see that there is less sound coming off of the rear with the SM80s. ALso you will notice that the SM80 has pattern control down LOWER than the Martin. This is due to the physically larger horn on the SM80.
But that would require looking at and understanding real data and not just "heresay".
Nearly everything you have mentioned is correct. However, pattern control down to a lower frequency and the amount of energy coming off of the rear of the box is not nearly as big of a concern of mine as what is coming out of the front of the box. This is because, in my opinion, if it sounds like I'm outside of the coverage pattern of the SM80 when I'm standing 40 degrees off axis from it, I could care less if it's doing a good job at reducing the SPL coming out of the rear of the box.
While yes, your "real data" would absolutely suggest that the narrowing of the dispersion in the high frequencies is not as drastic as I describe it to be, I would make the argument that your "real data" does not accurately convey what the boxes sound like in real life in regards to the narrowing of the high frequencies. I don't need "real data" to make my decisions for me, I make my decisions based on my real life experience with the speakers, and in my experience the CDD does a MUCH better job at dispersing the high frequencies throughout the intended coverage pattern in comparison to the SM80.
The one thing from your comment that confuses me is where "heresay" comes into play. We owned and used the SM80 for something like 2-3 years before replacing them with the CDD, so we have a good amount of first hand experience with it. We also directly compared it (in person) to the CDD. None of the statements that I have made are based on hearsay, unless my understanding of that word is different from yours.
I'd also like to mention that I did not appreciate the condescending tone of your comment. Being a professional yourself, not to mention somebody who works for Danley and, AFAIK, the main man behind the design of the SM80, I would expect a more professional attitude from you.
@@alexberry3833 it's an 80° box. Wouldn't you be outside of the coverage past 40° either way anyways?
@@stevewiegert2691 No. When I say "standing 40 degrees off axis", I'm referring to standing 40 degrees off from the on axis point which is directly in front of the speaker. Standing 40 degrees off axis would be at the edge of the nominal dispersion pattern.
That’s a speakon connector my dude
on these? no, it's true1
Is that any different to a PowerCON connector?
Ah, my bad
Also my bad, a True1 is a branch of PowerCON
It's simple. If you have to put "Pro" in the name of your product, it's not really a "Pro" product. If you intend to make a "Pro" product, then make it for real pros, sell it in places where only pros buy, and then provide pro-level support after the sale.
I agree, except even if somebody puts the word "Pro" in their product or company name (Martin Professional lighting comes to mind) but still makes a professional level product with all of the things you mentioned, I don't really think it matters. It only matters when the only "Pro" level part of the product is in the name.
We happen to be doing some packaging for overseas shipment in a containeer, using 7-layer cardboard boxes that are close to 1/3rd-inch thick. Surprised to see how thin & flimsy the M-A box is for shipping this over 80 pounds = almost 40 kilograms unit. The main reason you do not get any cables in the box is probably so you cannot even test out the unit until some later time. Talk about cheap and stingy, ouch. So you have to make yourt own cable to use one of these sepakers? The manufactutrer should be a bit more forthcoming with that info on their product page. I stopped watching this "overview" 5 minutes in, after falling into a deep slumber.
Later realized that the reason the cables are not built is because they ship the same exact sku internationally, so depending on your region you just build the appropriate cable. Still does feel cheap but it's the standard for products like this in this market interestingly
PowerCon is now called PowerTwist 😉
Its called truecon, but ok...please go and ask for a power twist...lol
Martin? I prefer Meyer all the way
nice
While Meyer is amazing, Martin makes more affordable and a wider range of product. Martins are made for what SLM is using them for. Meyer is more geared towards theatre uses. I’ve never seen a DJ use Meyer. Like a previously stated, martin is more geared towards music. Meyer doesn’t have any (that I know of) coaxial speakers, and one of the biggest issues audio engineers face is coverage overlap. At least i do. Causes many issues such as phasing, comb filtering... etc. and the Coaxial Differential Dispersion (CDD) really fixes most of not all of said issues. That like saying you prefer K12’s over Mackie Thump 12’s. Both have their individual uses. Same here. Martin and Meyer are both good for their own things.
@@dennisondenatalie actually the reason meyer is more expensive is because it is powered. If i were to get a meyer product it will probably be as much as a martin product plus the amp. But of course the martin amp that we buy also can hook up to more than 1 speaker.
hahaha now you locked your expensive powercon true connector and you can’t open it again
No they are able to be disassembled, but we don't make our own cables at this point either way
Ah oke, we had some powercon true connectors and there was a locking ring in the middle :)
check the manual, there's a way to unlock them if you need to but it is pretty fickle
Martin are great speakers but their are lots of good out their rcf Meyer eaw are very loud speakers
$2300 for a speaker. sheesh
contact us for a quote if you're interested!
You get what you pay for.
That’s nothing really
What is the loudest speaker that you know of or heard that is a similar size to the cdd live 15
*loudest* being the only spec?
it's not really the same product, but probably the martin audio xe500
the hennessey sound design manta 90 is a little larger than the cdd live 15, but is also much louder than cdd live 15
in terms of a more closely competing product, the sm80 is 3db louder, so technically it also wins your question, but for reasons explained in the video we feel that the extra 3db is not worth it
@@dougberry4674 im looking for a 2 way that has a very strong and loud bass woth very loud highs, I personally own a yamaha dxr15 mk2 and the highs are ear piercing loud but the bass is just not enough for me. Any suggestions ?
@@petarcholakov9352 if you can, I'd add a sub before upgrading tops
However, if a sub is not an option, the CDD Live 15 certainly has quality and balanced bass, but you may also be very happy with the ETX 15p, which comes in at a lower price.
@@dougberry4674 how do the srx815 compare to the etx15 and the dxr15
@@petarcholakov9352 the drx doesn't really compare, but the etx and srx are similar. It comes down to personal preference, but overall I prefer the EV sound over JBL, and to my knowledge the etx15p has more bass without boosting (which is important) than the srx815p, so if that's important to you, I'd go with the EV hands down
If you're in the US, make sure you email us for a quote! We're dealers for basically all brands, including EV and JBL