Tank Chats
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- Опубліковано 25 бер 2021
- The Tank Museum's Curator David Willey presents a Tank Chat on the Sd.Kfz. 234 Panzerspähwagen, a heavy German reconnaissance vehicle from the Second World War, and the only wheeled German armour in The Tank Museum collection. Join David as he tells you more.
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Person: How do you calm yourself down after a stressful day of midterms and assignments?
Me: I watch a 20 minute video of a man with a calming accent, talking about a car with a big cannon on top that has an overtly German name.
Person: ...
Person: "Die spinnen, die Briten..."😋😉
If you don't say Sd.Kfz 234 Panzerspähwagen to people in casual conversation every day then you doing something wrong with your life
Cup o coffee in the morning with the refined English gentlemen telling me about vehicles I've loved since I was a kid.....what a good start to the day!
@@scoutdogfsr Indeed
Got some bad news. It gets worse after you join the work force.
The design of these proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the Germans were fully aware of the benefits of angled armour very early on. Contrary to popular belief.
A lot of their armored cars have heavily sloped armor that should it be flat wouldn't stop rifle rounds, so yeah they clearly knew what and why they were doing
@@Azerkeux Indeed, I remember reading somewhere that they were very cognisant of the armour benefits for the Panzer tanks but decided on a space efficiency basis to go with more square and boxy designs. Also worth noting so did most militaries in the pre war and early war period. Anti tank guns were no where near as serious as they would later become early on and 50mm of quality steel flat on was still a fairly tough thing to go through for anti tank weapons of the period.
Yep, it was always a reasonable trade off either way. Improved armor vs more internal space. You see especially the British and Germans, sometimes chose the latter.
@@treyhelms5282 Yes and the British (I'm a Brit) were building tanks with flat unangled plates riveted onto a frame for some time. Not at all an ideal design. The tanks though, they did work. A tank does not have to be perfect, just a reasonable trade off as you say and able to do the job.
No they didn't, they were just stylish. There's a reason why they had Hugo Boss uniforms.
The good news is that Tatra solves the engine concerns on the Sd.Kfz. 234 for hot conditions in desert operations.
The bad news is that Tatra solves this in 1944, when Axis desert operations are moot.
But it helped them after the war for building their stuff for hot climate. A lot of Middle East custommers were very happy with the purchase.
An occupied country spends too long developing something to help their occupiers' army. I suspect that was entirely deliberate.
@@kevinabbott3890 If so, the developers still got nailed to the wall for collaborating. The Tatra 111 truck with the same engine was one of the best trucks to be built in the war, certainly in any of the Axis nations, and served long after as a commercial vehicle all over the world.
The steppes were dusty and relatively hot (at least AFA the Germans were used to) so still had some usefulness.
@@j.f.fisher5318 Yeah, the tatra main designer Hans Ledwinka was prosecuted for alleged collaborating (never confirmed that he did it willingly) after WWII by communist regime, eventually forcing him and many other competent engineers to exile to Germany. Big loss for Tatra from which combined with communist rule for 41 years it did not yet recover. Sad.
Honestly tank chats series is a masterpiece
That prototype at 3:36 is ADORABLE! Look how happy he is
i see it, noice~ 😆👍
@@legotechnictrains8999 thats why its a prototype
I'm not sure that was the effect the Wehrmacht was going for...
@@dsludge8217 i have always suggested putting googley eyes on tanks to make the enemy pause and feel bad
@@007kingifrit Perhaps that also influenced the VW beetle's looks?
This man is very charismatic and explains things in details but clearly. It's always a pleasure to listen to those videos. This vehicule in particular is very interesting, and looks pretty good too.
A teacher you want to listen to!
I agree he is a excellent presenter but I do love David fletcher’s dry whit and facial hair 🤣
Germans used earplugs too.
@@martinbyrne8101 this guy rambles too much. David gets to the point short and quick and tells it like it is
@@John_Redcorn_ put some respect on Lord Fletcher
Already told my wife we are going across the pond to see this museum. Tank chats is glorious
German Armored Cars always looked cool to me, had a futuristic vibe to them, like the Sdkfz 222
Anyone else notice the resemblance between this and the eight-wheeled armored vehicle produced for the German army in the late seventies early '80s known as the Luchs (Linx)?
Built a Panzerspähwagen when I was younger a Monogram kit.
Even as a lad I was amazed it was eight wheel driven.
Cheers from Ireland Fellas.
I've seen that same kit on Ebay... looks very nice.
Hmmmm... I know what my next build will be!
Thanks Steve, Jerry from the U.S.
Hey boys. Guess what I just bought on ebay. Yup. Brand new, still wrapped up with that beautiful 1970s air still in the box lol.
Looks like a fantastic model kit. Even has crew members I see. 1/32nd scale. Cool.
Thanks all. Haven't built a model in many years so cant wait.
Just saw that Tamiya makes a great version also... Afrika Korps.
I built the Tamiya radio car version at some point.
You should check the video from Panzermuseum about the reconaisance tank "Luchs", which took the ideas of the sfkfz 234 after the war for a Bundeswehr use. Amazing machine and was realy fun to drive! I enjoyed it more then any car I drove in my life.
I imagine it was rather disconcerting to the driver to have that L24 75mm howitzer going off a foot above your head.
Never mind any shenannigans instigated by the rear driver thinking he is a very funny guy.
I would still take it instead of being a driver of the Valentine Archer SPG anytime. Compared to having the 17-pounder's breech barreling towards the back of your head every time, this sounds like a light summer breeze. ;-)
Not really, he was probably turned deaf after the first few rounds :). He was fine after that.
I also doubt diesel was a huge issue because Germany had some diesel trains in WW2 and trucks (like the Diesel engined Borgwards). So it was already in the supply chain...add in the fact that the Russian tanks used diesel, the capture of diesel stocks was frequent while on the advance and it was a fuel that other armoured vehicles wasn't using.
@@brokeandtired all their Allies used diesel fuel as standard,so it wouldnt have been that hard to get diesel.
Always fascinated by the armoured cars and good explanation of the story behind these vehicles.
The late german ww2 cars where crazy , thank god none where built in huge numbers or fuel was available
The Germans really do love heavy reconnaissance
Schwere aufklärung sounds cool though
Not anymore really :(
If you are familiar with Battletech they carry that tradition up to 3050 :)). Atlas scout lance for the win :).
👁️👅👁️
When Germans want more gun in scouting........
The moment I heard 'Wheeled Vehicle', my brain immediately changed it to 'Vealed Wheehicle'. Curse your black heart Claus Kellerman!
Such an elegant and beautiful vehicle. I hope the museum can get it repainted and running sometime in the near future.
Saladin: "Hang on old chap, who are you?"
Sonderkraftfahrzeug 234/3: "I am you, but stronger, kamerade."
Ralf Raths, the director of the Panzermuseum Munster has made a series about diesel fuel in the Wehrmacht. He comes to the conclusion, that it is a myth, that they didn't use it because of the Kriegsmarine. The documents he referred to, show, that it was because available diesel engines were heavier, yet less powerful and bigger in size than their gasoline counterparts. Also they had concerns about the reliability of this new and mostly unproven technology.
It was very interesting to watch Mr. Raths look at the documents of the time for an answer. Sadly the video isn't available in English yet as far as I know.
How could diesel be an unproven technology? Diesel engines were in widespread use in buses and lorries throughout Britain and Western Europe from the very early 1930s, and by the mid-30s were almost universal for vehicles with gross weights of 10 tons or so. They were generally only built in larger capacities, so were unsuitable for the general service trucks of 2-3 tons favoured by most armies, but for heavy haulage they returned fuel consumption figures which were at least twice as good as equivalent petrol engines. I suspect supply logistics was the main reason most armies were reluctant to use diesel.
@@davidjones332 That is what the sources found by Mr. Raths say. Although the diesel engine is known in civil applications at the time, the high rank officers thought conservative and skeptical as it seems.
Do
@@davidjones332 I guess it is the same like with British stance on welding on tanks. Welding has been done by many years at that point mainly on ships, but yet they were adamantly conservative, forcing designers to use rivets on for ex. Cromwell series of tanks.
@@Warump With the welding vs riveting issue there was also the matter of availability of skilled welders at the tank factories. Presumably due to previous riveted tank designs they had many skilled riveters but not many skilled welders. Welding is also a skilled job which requires a lot more training than riveting.
I didn't realize this was the only wheeled German armour you had, would be great to see an Sd.Kfz.222, which you could also have a picture of Lt Grueber from "'Allo 'Allo", with a reference to "his little tank" line from the TV series.
Apparently a Greek guy built a replica, took him 19 months: www.ww2wrecks.com/portfolio/ww2-vehicles-a-german-sdkfz-222-built-from-scratch/
If Grüber and his little tank would go for a spin at Tank Fest I would come from Denmark no question about it!
Sadly, very few 222s survive:(
Clarence should come too
@@Zajuts149 2 in working kondition 1 in the former littlefield collection and 1 in russia, weatcroft is rebuilding one 222 i think !!
I love the German wheeled armour. It's so practical to build from flat plates, and have a small size to be fast on roads.
Just like the Tesla Cybertruck.
The fact that Brits actually used the Puma, a 1940s design as a benchmark it the 1970s, 25 years after the end of the war tells everything you really need to know. Wish this could be made a runner again and given it's period correct paint scheme. Such a magnificent looking and performing vehicle.
The 234 is the grandfather of the Luchs of the Bundeswehr.
That original prototype looked adorable. It had a face with those round lights for eyes and the chains looked like a smile ☺
Looking at the way the wheels are laid out I can’t help thinking that this may have had some influence over the Russian BTRs.
As far as I know the BTR design relies on that of the Puma, so yes.
Well the germans did capture and used these armoured vehicles . the Dutch build DAF Pantrado M.39 several where used near Leningrad till they ran out of parts.
DAF PANTRADO 3 (M.39)
ua-cam.com/video/nMn3zQgUQxU/v-deo.html
My thought exactly
What you mean with wheel layout?
One wheel after the other, and left side has exactly (!) the same amount as the right side? ^^
if it had 5 wells i would have said that also....: ))
I love the PUMA, I remember a Matchbox Model of it.
The granddaddy of the Panzerspähwagen Luchs.
The amphibious Luchs 8x8 was a brilliant recce vehicle.
Look at how happy that vehicle is at 3:34
They should have kept that design; the PanzerSmileywagen.
"Reporting sir!"
"What'd you find out there, soldier?"
". . . . A smiling truck."
This is so modern and actual! 😲🇩🇪
Even though it was built way back, it still looks very modern, way before it's time.
Oh yes finally the 234, my favourite ww afv. Its such a good looking and advanced armoured car for its time.
IMO, running neck-and-neck with the Puma for coolest armored car ever.
8 wheel drive
8 wheel steering
Forward and rear driving compartments.
The list goes on...
I love my halftracks but yes, I agree... this is easily the best looking armored vehicle of the War and also the most innovative.
@@jerryjeromehawkins1712 With their immediate descendants in the Bundewehr's Spahpanzer Luchs
Grandfather of the Bundeswehrs Spähpanzer. The last model was so quiet during war games had to stay in marked places during night as the Tank was on top of you before you hear it.
My Grandfather was "Kommandant" of a 234/4. He served with the 1/PzAufkl.Abt 11 . Elfte Panzerdivison.
Interesting how cannons on 'main' battle tanks were on cars by war's end.
6-wheeled vehicle at 5:13 - in the Czech Republic there was a copy of this vehicle built on the Praga V3S chassis, it participated in demonstrations at the BAHNA army days, I had the opportunity to be inside the vehicle and operate the machine gun, it was around 2005.
Due to financial dramas I can't donate but hope this fantastic museum stays open in these weird times.
This tank is just as weird tbh
Better times will follow;"when you're going through hell....-kéép going"
He knew what he was talking about😊
the puma as a teenager
01:17 Hans von Seeckt looks so Prussian and German that even Hermann the Cheruscan would be embarrassing. :))
But I love that and am proud to be a German and to have men like von Seeckt as ancestors.
Von Seeckt and his cohorts were mentally preparing for the next war. Many Allied generals and politicians were of the opinion that the Armistice was little more than a pause in order to rearm. Germany was effectively involved in one kind of internal warfare or another until well into the 20s. Von Seeckt was also of the opinion that the 100,000 strong Reichswehr was "100,000 potential officers" instead of an impoverished Army.
To answer your Diesel question, partially. In 1944 the German Diesel and petrol situation was so bad that the BMW GT101 jet engine was developed to be fitted in the Panther tank. It sounds crazy, but quite true. The reason was that the jet could use low grade oil, which the Germans had plenty of.
Fascinating as always. And I love the fact that so many photos of these vehicles show them with British troops. But hopefully a 3.7 cm anti-tank gun for the prototype; 3.7mm really would have been a pea-shooter!
I thought I was the only one who heard that
@@YK-hh7vs Funny that Allies uses mm for calibers while Germams prefered cm. For instance the famous 88mm was referred to as 8.8cm in Germany.
they added 50cm of armour aswell..
@@bkucinschi That reminds me of German cars with tachometers showing hundreds of rpm, instead of thousands. That’s moving the decimal point in the opposite direction so I’m not going to read too much into it - I guess they’re just comfortable with those tens- or hundreds- units. When I’ve done structural engineering work in metric we’ve always avoided those and stuck to steps of 10^3.
@@CarlosSempereChen : Of course you're right, but it explains David Willey's slip of tongue, and his apparent confusion between cm and mm. Nowadays in metric system mm is comonly used instead of cm. For structural calculations for instance N/mm^2 or MPa is used, while older generations of engineers in Europe were taught in Kgf/cm^2 ( and used a slide rule... )
The Sdkfz 232, 234 series of vehicles, as well as the Sdkfz 250, 251 and 252. They have something magnetic in their design of angular planes, it is like looking at a Lamborguini Countach LP400.
Best looking armored vehicle of the war...
I watched the capture of the Badger/ Mienhoff gang on German TV back in the 80’s.They called on the gang to surrender and got no response. They then had one of these spahpanzers pull up and fire three rounds of AP through the front of the house. The next scene was the wounded being brought out on stretchers.German houses are built to last 300 years but those rounds must have gone right through.
PUMA GANG
Lol my favorite BR 2.3 light tank destroyer
@@krirthikdinesh7755 Puma is wasted at BR 2.3, I keep it in my 5.3 lineup as a scout vehicle and it does fine
Nice Puma. It would be a shame if someone happened to *hull break it*
@@TR33ZY_CRTM oof. WT's true weakness.
@@TR33ZY_CRTM can't hull break what you can't catch ;)
The reason why they never had any issues for getting diesel:
They were the only ones using it and thus wasnt worth beeing claimed by other units
No Italian vehicles also used diesel
@@Sofus. Not in the german supply line xD
Almost every farm in Europe used diesel on the farm, tracktors and such, most recon units just liberated (Stole) it from farms.
Not really. There were many German army diesel engined trucks. See the German Einheits Diesel programme.
A lot kerosene (fotogen) were used for lighting. The refinery products wasn't as exact as nowadays. So not a big difference between diesel and kerosene, almost the same product. A lot of early tractors were run on kerosene.
I’ve been waiting for a Tank Chat featuring this amazing vehicle, Thanks David Willey.
Germans were ahead of their time, this vehicles are still amazing looking
I had a 1/35 model of this vehicle (234/3) painted in the "ambush scheme" stolen from the display case at the Maryland (USA) Squadron Shop when they closed down. This video is yet another reason I really must visit and see this grand collection. Great video David - thank you.
It would be cool if this beauty could be displayed with the eight wheel steering in action...
Also, a tan Afrika Korp paint job maybe??
For a vehicle that came out in 1944?
@@jrd33 lol...point taken John. I've just always liked the Afrika Korps tan on armored vehicles. But yes... the German Expeditionary Force was long gone from North Africa by 1944.
The day lockdown finally ends make way I want to be first in the queue to get in the museum! I've missed it so much.
In 2034?
That armored car is so cool looking, thanks for the history video! The diesel engine issues reminds me of the modern day VW diesel engine scandal, lol.
Never forget that German armored recon uniforms have golden-yellow piping. Not the piglet pink ones.
Yes let's never forget that important point.
Who had the pink?
@@tonyromano6220 tank troops
@@tonyromano6220 Tanks. They still do.
I loved building the variants of this in 1:35 scale. Fantastic vehicles.
Same, did the 234/2 by dragon, full interior and everything
Great chat on this amazing vehicle. The Sdkfz 233 & 234 vehicles have always caught my imagination. I have read some of the performance reports & was awestruck. I believe Alvis took a deep interest in this design & created our multi wheeled armoured cars from it. If I did a Top Five Tanks ( although not one) this would certainly be up there. German engineers at their best.
3:35 Awweh, look how happy the cute prototype is.
It would be great to get it running again!!
I'd pitch in if there was a community funding program - since it's their only German wheeled vehicle, it's a shame to leave it a hanger queen.
bought a panzer 4 shirt from the store - good quality
Only just heard "candlestine development" 😂 otherwise another brilliant entry by our glorious British tank hoarde- I mean museum 👌
Yes I thought I heard that!
I like the vehicles that lay outside the spotlight. How about we see a tank chat about an SPG? Maybe the FV4005 stage 2 or the fv3004
This design looks so modern to me, it really doesn't differ in shape very much from modern armored cars
2:00 Brits: _So Krauts, you doing any clandestine developments with the Soviets?_
Germans: _Nein, nein. Of course not, only a few Kandelstëin ones_
Chamberlain, probably: _Oh that's all right then old chap_
this was going on even before the nazis came into power.
😄😄
I'm glad somebody else noticed that!
3:34 - this is one very happy vehicle.
:)
Its the little tank from "Allo 'Allo!"
Nein! That was a SdKfz 222 :)
Thank you, David, for another thoroughly interesting 'chat'.
10:22 50 *centimetres?!* Either you meant '50 millimetres', or these cars had enough armour protection to make even a Tiger tank blush.
Could have misspoke, but maybe he meant that the plate projected 50cm in front of the hull? The plate certainly projects out quite far.
He was saying that the applique armour was mounted 50cm from the front hull.
SdKfz 263 with Zerschellerplatte: www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/armored_vehicles/sdkfz_263/sdkfz-263-from-panzer-group-kleist/
Anyone else remember as a child building the airfix model 234/4 that had the wrong mudguards?
AND WRONG TOILET PAPER HOLDER....EMBARRASSING
Yup. I built one last year. I pinched the correct mudguards from the Matchbox Puma kit.
Yes, a lot of people don't know that the Soviet Union was under Sanctions (sounds familiar) and the German's under the Versailles Treaty!
It was also interesting to see how the things changed going from 1937 onwards and how it's forgotten or not mentioned today!
Geopolitics!
That was so interesting, thank you very much indeed!!
I always liked the look of the Rad-6 even though it was a failure in service.
Thank you for covering the wheeled German armoured cars.😀
I love that they did “Candelstein” development of military vehicles. 😅
Love your chats😊
Me yesterday: I wish they would make a video about one of the 234 vehicles
Them today:
On the Diesel, the German Panzer Museum Munster made a great series on Diesel and Gasoline Engines - but i am not sure if there are english sub titles available
Awesome piece of equipment.
I imagine that the reason for the 75L24 cannon was the ability to fire smoke shells to allow for the rest of the unit to withdraw. The fact that the Germans also had a good HEAT round for it is a bonus!
Interesting - always thought the Alvis saladin looked a bit like the Puma. The reason why is obvious now.
"Candlestine development"? Secret lexicon revealed. Good one.
Candlestein was the result of Victor Frankenstein's little-known earlier experiments with small wax cylinders.
He was referring, of course, to castle Candlestein, where much of the specification on Pz. I was drafted in the mid 1920ies.
English subtitles will make this series even more great tbh
It's ni surprise to me that the german 8 wheel recon vehicles were a standard that other were judged by 3 decades after WW-II ended. the Bundswer developed an 8 wheel car during the cold war that had much taller, fatter tires.. the running joke was when asked why the tires were so tall the reply being "The mud gets deep in Russia" (Spähpanzer Luchs. in sevice until 2009)
I've been to the TM quite a few times, cannot remember seeing this vehicle. Looking good DW😊
.....no, I was wrong, checked my TM photo album, it was in the WW2 Hall Doh!
As always, an exelent documentary.
Thw vehicle in tbe background looks so retrofuturistic. The sort of thing youd see in a modern wolfinstien game.
I really like the in depth look David Willey does on all the vehicles he presents. From the planning of the vehicle all the way to the production vehicle, and how they were used during conflict (and out of it) is just really well done!
18:35 The cartridge shown here is a 7,5cm KwK 40 cartridge, not the PaK 40 cartridge. The latter had a longer casing and no bottleneck, and as such was not interchangable with the former.
Other than that it is another great video talking about another very cool armoured vehicle that I hope to see with my own eyes once this Covid bullocks is done with.
a beautiful vehicle design! The Sd.Kfz. 234. really was it's prime version.
This little tank is much better than any Bentley ever made.
Little known fact: for the open-topped vehicles, the commander was issued a tennis racket to bat away any grenades.
My fantasy would be driving one of these down Daytona Beach on Spring Break with lots of thongs and schnapps on board.
I want one for commuting (or did during pre-pandemic traffic.) Seeing a 75mm gun muzzle in your rearview would convince even a BMW driver to move over. :-)
Love the videos. Please consider doing one on a South African vehicle in the future!
Thanks mate 👍🇳🇿
Just a beautiful design
Oh my, we've must have been a bunch of very good boys to get a 23 minute chat about a cool car like this.
Fantastic looking afv, I would prefer to see it in 1944 camo instead of the early war grey. Keep the videos coming
Really an important lesson treaties only work if both sides want them to work
Yep! Pretty sure that vehicle should not be grey. Looks like someone walked off with the driver's protective visor too! Great vehicle & good presentation!
I'd like to drive one of these around just to see the look on everyone's face.
Would be pretty cool , I bet
"Excuse me sir, did you know that your rear lights are not working? Here is you ticket, may I see your licence?".
@@myparceltape1169 spin the turret around, he's now facing down the barrel of a 5cm kwk 39 and his argument was rendered irrelevant
You can get an idea by playing Post Scriptum on a PC . Best tank combat game at the moment.
@@myparceltape1169 "in Germany its called Führerschein" though the "Führer" didnt have a licence...
Not in a million years will I ever get to visit this amazing place!!! I have been to the infantry museum on Fort Benning but this place in my opinion blows it out of the water!!!!
Well I hope you do manage to visit it's well worthwhile.
Excellent video 👍
3.33 What a lovely smile.
Totally absorbing as always. Thank you.
Regarding the fuel logistics: the german Panzermuseum Munster made a pretty well researched 4-part miniseries about the subject, why the Wehrmacht used almost exclusively petrol engines. Unfortunate its only in german so far, but they started an english channel some time ago, so there is a good chance, that an english version of it comes out at some point.
In this series they say though, that its a myth that the Kriegsmarine got all the Diesel allocated, but it was a strategic decision made in the process of building up the Wehrmacht far before outbreak of the war. Therefore it were technical reasons that spoke for petrol instead of diesel, like dieselengines were the younger and less used technology with less experience in it and were bigger and heavier for less power compared to contemporary petrolengines.
Also diesel was or would have been available at a similar scale as petrol, as the refineries used to produce the fuel could have produced higher yields of diesel instead of petrol, if needed. And the Kriegsmarine wasnt the only user of diesel, as the (civil) industry widely used diesel engines in their trucks as well as the logistics of the Wehrmacht. So availability was not the reason why there were no dieselengines in german tanks.
Thanks for referring to this series, it's indeed very informative.
i heared something similar about early Unimog's not having Diesel mostly. the fuel itself was when cold very very slugish basicly being unable to start engine without seting it on fire to heat it up. could be a massiv issue in the Winter on the east.
@@cpt.mirones5109 yup, that was also a reason, although the cold winters of russia werent really on the mind of the Wehrmacht when planning the next war in the 30s. Same goes for fuel consumption, in mid-europe you have the infrastructure so you dont need that range.
I don't have much education on ships, but don't ships run bunker oil and not diesel? Essentially they process the bunker oil into low grade diesel on board the vessel prior to injection.
@@scoutdogfsr I dont know, but the U-Boote (submarines) used diesel
I love seeing the Armored cars thank you.
just a little thing: this thing is street legal in germany, as is the current main tank leopard 2 for. thats why almost every bridge here has a sign for tanks if they are allowed or not (weight and width wise)
Notable that the armored car has the "Running Greyhound" insignia of the 116th Panzer Division, which was modeled after a Russian greyhound that was the division's mascot.
Absolutly right. Up till 2003 it was the Mascot of the Panzergrenadierbatallion 212 in Augustdorf and was called "Sasha". Then some politicans called it a Nazi Dog and it was abandommed from thier Banners.
Also means that armoured car has a combat pedigree which would be traceable.
Windhund