Plastic Pressure Fermentation: Fermenter King Snub Nose and FermZilla All Rounder
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2024
- Ever want to ferment under pressure? Carboys can't do it, and stainless steel vessels are expensive. Another option? PET (plastic) fermenters! Relatively cheap, they are capable of fermenting beer, cider, or wine under pressure just as well as stainless steel options.
In this video, I review and compare two plastic pressure fermenters; the FermZilla All Rounder and the Fermenter King Gen 3 Snub Nose.
#FermenterKing #SnubNose #FermZilla #AllRounder #KegKing
00:00 - Intro
03:03 - Common Aspects
04:17 - Differences
12:04 - Final Thoughts
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UPDATE: I didn't mention this in the video since I didn't have first hand experience with it, but Keg King champions their superior manufacturing process and that their products are not made in China.
From the CEO of Keg King,
"Our PET vessels are the only ones made with the patented CYPET method which does not involve reheating the PET in a blow moulding machine. This means that they achieve far higher burst pressures than the other PET vessels. From the number of FZ vessels on record which have exploded with sometimes minimal pressure I think this is something potential users need to be aware of.
Our product is manufactured in Australia and not in China and has an unblemished record but your comparison vessel does not."
Ouch! The Keg King vs Kegland battle continues. To be honest, it's just making both companies look childish....
@@fincito especialy where the snub nose is a fermasaurus without dump valve, and stand is just fermasaurus stand flipped upside down :))
Good video.
Have you tried the other orientation of the stand for the all-rounder, I would try that if I had these "flip" issues. Again, maybe it wouldn't fit correctly.
@@bojanbugarski yes. I’ve tried both ways. It’s works a little better in that it didn’t completely roll over, it still rolls enough where it stirs up the sediment causing cloudy beer in my keg.
@@fincito I think it's relevant information. The fact is that quite a few Fermzillas has exploded. The reason could be the manufacturing method and if the Snub Nose is manufactured in another way that is stronger that is a significant argument for purchase. Unfortunately the pressure resistance is not something that is immediately visible on these vessels, only when one explodes and the other doesn't you know which one is better.
Hi Larry nice to see you back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Larry, you can get a thermo well for the allrounder, I have one on mine. You can also turn the stand the other way around so it locates in the larger ring.
Great vid, nice to have you back. I love my All Rounder. I’ll probably get another one soon so I can always have 2 beers in rotation. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. Cheers!
Thanks a lot for the side by side comparison, and letting people decide for themselves.
Thanks Larry for the review. I find that your reviews are quite different from most other reviews in that you add in some extra practical issues you face with the equipment which really helps a lot. Good going. Your videos are really inspiring.
Glad you like them!
Thanks for doing a review of both! This is clearly what was missing.
Thank you for taking the time to make content, greatly appreciated!
I'm still fermenting in a 6gal bucket.
Well, that is a plastic bucket style fermenter. lol
Just without pressurization. 😉
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY 😆 I guess you are right, I just kegged my third brew and my first recipe. I really enjoy brewing and bbq 😋
You're the king Larry!
Thanks for the side by side comparison Larry. It's a much better comparison and makes it easier to decide than separate videos. I liked most of the features for the Snub Nose but the cleaning moves me to the Rounder.
Great info Larry. Of course we find the information in your videos useful brother. We are grateful for all you do. Nice to have seen a release twice in just a few days. I always move straight to your release notification on Trubtube before anything else. Cheers Professor.
Trubtube?! lol
I’ve got such a backlog to get caught up on that I’ve discarded a number of in-process videos dating back to over a year.
Trubtube is the platform you and I are going to start. You better copyright it before some pirate moves in for the kill.
Great review, very fair
The all-rounder is the best, I have a lager at room temp fermenting right now under 12 psi
great review! Liked the side-by-side comparison a lot and your observations will definitely benefit me when buying one of these bad boys ;)
Glad it was helpful! You really cant go wrong with either one. It's just what features YOU value more than others.
Nice to see you back bud
Thank you very much!
Didn’t realize we were #2 on the search list for the all rounder review. I’d like to give the snub nose a try someday. Thanks Larry, for the comparison. Keep brewing my friend 🍻
Thanks, Paul (and Mike)! Maybe this video of mine will rank up there someday too! lol.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY You’re so funny Larry. Our channel is small beans in comparison. That said, we need to get together this summer for a brew, or just for beer-n-bbq 😉😋 😂
Sure. I'm always up for road trips and visitors (time permitting of course). Another collab video?!??!?!
killer video chief!
Thank you
Good to see more content from you! I have the all rounder and love it. They make a little pre filter you can put on the end of the floating dip tube that only cost a few dollars. It really helps with the problem of sticking to the side or picking up a little grub during transfers:)
Cool. Thanks. I don’t think that existed last year when I first bought it.
Nice one Larry!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. Would love to taste your beer too. Cheers🍻
Thank you. Maybe I should start a brewery finally. Then everyone can try them someday.
I have the all rounder. I use three small pieces of painters tape to tape the stand to the fermenter. Then you can use the all rounder handles to move it around no problem. Always enjoy your videos, Larry! Take care!
Great tip!
HI Larry. Love your channel. Inspired me during our lockdown in NZ. To stop the allrounder tipping I have added a couple of 2" lengths of beer tubing with a spiral slit to the support frame. If you need another frame just use a 20/l 5 gallon bucket. For an awesome pressure hop device add the PCO1881 ball valve. It saves Co2 and works a treat. This thing is just a dream to clean.
Not familiar with ball valve mounting and use. Detail???
I have the All Rounder. I originally had the thermowell accessory with a Doutight fitting. While pressure fermenting at 15 psi, the Doutight failed and blasted the thermowell out. New lid and taping the probe to the outside now. Couldn't be happier. 🍻
Thanks for sharing!
I have quite a few of these snub nose fermenters. The cone shape helps yeast settle into one spot and you can transfer more beer. Very little waste. Great video Larry.
I have noticed that. Nice feature.
It will not tip over that easily when loaded with worth. Thanks for a great review.
Nice un-biased review Larry. I have the All Rounder and I flip the stand to get a better balance. Plus Kegland do sell a separate thermowell for it that you have to fit yourself (by drilling into the lid). Of course that increases the cost. But you're right about the trube in the All Rounder and I would prefer the Snub Nose but it's just too tall for my fermentation fridge.
Thanks. That's a good point. I didn't consider the fridge size issue since I don't use refrigeration when pressure fermenting.
Larry I have the All Rounder and I love this I will be getting another one very soon. I will never use a bucket again. Great video on these products I may get a snubb nose as well to test out
Right on
Flip the stand for the all rounder and it won’t roll over. The orientation in the video is only good for letting it dry after cleaning.
Thanks for the tip!
I drilled two, half inch holes into the lid of my pressure barrel. I fitted bulk head connectors and a floating dip tube. All in it was $20 for a pressure fermenter. That has the advantage of having a sampling port (the tap at the bottom).
I'm in south East Australia, I've been doing the 'quick lager method' since December last year after I saw you do a video on it and have been hooked, I'm brewing better than store bought macro lagers, I brewed in corny kegs with a spunding valve, but I have just bought the 30L fermzilla and today I kegged my first Lager from it, I also managed to harvest the yeast on the bottom, I never had any issues with leaks, the ones with the dump valve has problems, lagers I have been brewing is pale malt or pilsner malt and W 34/70 Lager yeast and Hallertau hops, I do prefer the simplicity of brewing in the keg it has advantages like it is narrow, easy to carry around, has no clumsy stand, and worries of leaks but you can't see inside them, that's the only problem. 🍺
Agreed. When I did harvest yeast, I did right from the carboy, No need for the cost and complexity of a dump valve.
Nice review..... I just bought an all rounder and going to use it this weekend with a Lime Lager. Looking forward to trying pressure fermentation and transfer to keg to reduce Oxygen contamination.
Hope you enjoy it!
Looks like a very nice alternative to SS. Cheers
you can use the stand upside down for the all rounder, then it's more stable!
I use my FZ All Rounder with the stand oriented the other way, small hole down, wide hole up. Never had a tipping problem.
move the handles from the bottom to the top of the structure on the fermenter king. I did it, it's great. And i have an inkbird and the probe fits very well in the hole ;)
That’s exactly what I did after the first use. Works great now.
Love my all rounders. Best purchase I have made since I got ferm chambers. Flip that stand around so that the wide part is atop. That will solve the issue you had with tipping over and, as an added benefit, you can very easily ball socket the all rounder when you transfer and get almost all of the beer.
Thanks for the tip!
More details on “ball socket” the all rounder??
Hey Larry,
like you i have a gen 3 keg king with the collection bottle, great idea and great piece of kit, but it will be the last i buy, i rarely keep yeast so dont need one for that
if troub bothers you then just buy another snub nose or a junior keg ( i use two juniors to store and serve from ) and just do a pressure transfer from the gen 3 once ferment has finished, the only feature id like to see on any vessel i use or buy in the future would be the central dip tube to keep the float away from the sides, again -not much of an issue as i can brew in the gen 3 with the tube and then transfer out , and i believe the new version of the snub nose can be purchased with a central pole and key ring
( used as a thermowell )
also it is much easier to clean and sanitise a snub nose or a stumpy than a gen 3 :)
Hi Larry - in your video the all rounder stand is upside down. You should use it the other way up - makes it lower and less prone to tipping. Stand small side up is only for draining the vessel upside down after rinsing it…An advantage you didn’t mention for the AR is that it fits in smaller ferm chambers - for example a chest freezer.
I tried it both ways. It’s tippable in both orientations for me. Funny you mention that because depending on which photo or video you see, that stand is oriented both ways. For example, Kegland’s own demo video shows it the way I have it shown.
As the harness accesory, you can purchase a dip tube for measuring temperature for the fermzilla and in this dip tube the probe of the Inkbird goes very easy inside.
Thanks. Good to know.
You can buy the thermowell for the all rounder and put the floating ball the same way you will put it in the other. The inkbird probe fits perfectly in the thermowell of the all rounder.
Good to know. Is just a matter of buying and installing one then.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY yep 👍🏻
Hi Larry great vid again, I have the all rounder and love it but will steal some ideas such as thermowell from the other, A few things I have learned just for interest.
The stand should be the other way up on the allrounder.
I rotate the fermenter a couple of days before transfer as I add gelatine under pressure from a 1 ltr bottle a couple of days before and the bottom trub is all flat.
Your tube looks too long, mine said cut tube so its straight with the ball on the bottom, this way it will swing to the middle.
If you use high flocculating yeast and the trub is quite steady and compact you can tilt/rotate the vessel at the end to get more precious beer out...
Another great vid and am going to search your archive for your views on going bigger and what if anything you think about HERMS.
good ideas! Thanks.
Hi Larry,
I what I meant as the "larger" ring is actually the other ring. Sorry about that. Trong
They did not provide you the correct stand for the Snub Nose. They should have positioned the handles at the top metal ring. You can move the handles from the bottom ring to the top ring to correct this. Great video, as always! Cheers!
Thanks. That’s my plan.
Great review! The Keg King seems to be the winner for me although I'm not sure it will fit in my fermentation space. I can just about get a corny keg in there, how tall is the Keg King compared to a corny keg?
Good question. I don’t know at the moment. I’ll have to compare them the next chance I get. The dimensions should be listed on their website.
Thanks for the review! Can you cut part of the tube from the dip tube on the all rounder so you don't get some trub?
You can cut it shorter, but it may not help that issue much. It can still drift toward the side unless you cut it so short that it cant reach the side but then you can't rack most of the beer. LOL
My solution was to copy the idea with the snub-nose. So I fitted a thermowell tube to my fermzilla and attach the floating dip tube to it using a stainless steel ring. It takes a bit of messing about getting the length right. The parts are available from Kegland !
It means cutting a hole in the lid but it's design means you can.
And my inkbird temperature sensor fits inside the thermowell easily. Maybe the Kegland thermowell one is a bigger diameter ?
Great comparison Larry! Was looking @ 2nd low budget Fermenter (also only brew 10G batches) for and cleaning the all-rounder seems best. I flip the stand upside down for stability and think 3 strips of electrical tape can hold the stand to the all rounder. Better use of $30 bucks for bulk grains. Only need to move it 2x - once to cold crash;once to rack- also sticks a little due to the weigh of batch and more surface contact with the stand upside down- don’t have your basement temp here in Santa Cruz. What is your best beer styles work best with pressure fermentation??? I ask because I tried Kviek in all rounder high gravity IPA and it didn’t finish much faster than S05 in plastic bucket ( comparison).
Lagers are the best style IMO. Some yeast neutral ales too. Not so much for ales with yeast flavor contributions like Weiss or Wit.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY any benefit for high gravity IPA’s??
Not really. Other than a slight jumpstart on carbonation, or if fermenting above the yeasts optimal range.
What type or model of temperature device would you use with the Thermowell. Thank you.
Anything with a probe that will fit down the thermowell.
I have an inkbird that fits.
Hi there, love your reviews, question for you, I live in Florida, we don't have basements, but we do have A/C. I keep my house at 74, and I currently use glass carboys for fermenting in a chest freezer with a temp control set to a temp that is applicable to what ever I happen to be brewing, I have heard that with pressure fermentation you can ferment at higher temps. I like to brew, wheat beers (hefe etc), porters and stouts, and am about to do a batch of pumpkin beer. Would I be able to ferment in the ambient temp of my house? I have not been able to find a pressure fermenter that will fit in the chest freezer and keep the spunding valve on top.
Lack of refrigerator space is one reason why I went down the pressure fermentation path. It suppresses the esters that result from fermenting at higher temperatures than the yeast is rated for which is good for some styles like lagers but bad for others like weissbier.
Whether it’ll work well for you depends on the beer style, yeast used, pressure applied, and temperature. 74 is only a few degrees higher than my average basement temperature. Should generally be fine, but you can also choose to use kviek yeast instead and ferment above 80 deg with no issues other than the flavor difference from using such yeast.
You can Dryhop on the All Rounder free of oxigen with a Ball valve and the Kegland T.
www.kegland.com.au/pco1881-x-pco1881-female-ball-balve-dry-hop-device-for-fermzilla.html
I just brewed a sasion yesterday. First time brewing on my fermzilla. Within 3 hours of pitching fermentation was roaring. Pitched at 80f. Fermentation is still roaring, but there is zero krausen. I'm worried there will be no head retention on the final beer. Ever experienced this before? I usually have to use a blow off tube due to high krausen. Never seen such a vigorous ferment with no krausen before.
If it's fermenting under pressure, there won't be much foam. The pressure subdues it. I've never seen any correlation of head retention to krausen.
Thanks for the review. After looking at the prices, I'm tempted to get the all rounder. I am getting tired of dealing with a blow off tube on my carboys. Everytime without fail I need a blow off on my 6.5 gal glass carboys. How difficult is it to remove the lid after use? I've seen similar vessels that almost require a special tool the get the lid off
You still need a blow off tube for a 6.5 gal carboy? I upgraded to 6.5 gal carboys (from 5 gal) so that I didn't have to do that. You must have very large batches. LOL.You'll want to invest in a strap wrench unless it came with the fermenter. My original FermZilla came with one. The All Rounder didn't.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY thanks that's good to know, I've read comments saying you will need the tool to open it. And yes I need the blow off tube every time. My batches are usually 5.5 gallons.
@@MikeP350 hmmm that’s interesting. I too make 5.5 gallon batches into the fermenter. I suppose I don’t get as much foam as you. lol
Larry can you send me your set up for your Spunding valve and bubbler on the All Rounder I really like that set up for its simplicity Thanks
Which one? I've used several spunding valves:
1) My own DIY one ua-cam.com/video/3Jpx-2buaso/v-deo.html
2) The one that came with my All Rounder
3) The one in this video: SPUNDiT 2.0
Where i can buy glass for beer like you have in "Larry's Berries Saison: A Tale of Two Fruits" 3:27 ? Regards from Poland
Mine came from Brewing America: brewingamerica.com
When you pressure ferment, do you close it off immediately or let it work a few days before closing it off?
Do you mean set the pressure on the spunding valve? I have it set from the start to release around 15 psi. The pressure hits that limit within a day.
Hay m8 even though the snub comes inside the frame like in your video the stand is actually up side down ... the handles are actually the top of the frame. Personally I took them off and attached them to the bottom the larger ring
Hi Larry. Long time lover of your content! I have a question for you - The inability to dump trub and hop material on these units... Does that influence beer quality at all? I'm about to get the 55L fermzilla, and I plan to use it as a Uni tank and serve from it. My primary concerns of getting this unit is the butterfly valve. Having said that, I am more concerned by off flavours from yeast autolysis and grassiness from hops that have had contact with beer too long. What are your thoughts on this? I typically finish beer I brew within 6 weeks. If I was racking to a keg this would obviously not be an issue, but in the configuration I want to have my setup (which is very low effort in terms of clean up and investment cost) it seems it may be an issue. Any advice appreciated! Cheers from South Africa!
It doesn't negatively impact beer quality at. In fact, it can improve it. I did a video and a related article about why that is.
Article: beernbbqbylarry.com/2017/04/29/why-i-dont-rack-to-a-secondary-fermenter/
Video: ua-cam.com/video/tImNJjsB6e4/v-deo.html
If you think about it, it makes complete sense:
- Trub will settle out first. Then the yeast which settle out covering the trub and acting as a barrier between trub and beer.
- Yeast can lie dormant for months at a time.
- Dry hops, if added, are only there for a period of days. You'd get much more grassiness from hops using a no chill brewing method.
- No unnecessary air exposure to spoil the beer.
Ever since I stopped the silly practice of using a secondary a dozen years ago, my beer got better; not worse.
Also, even though 6 weeks should still be fine, I question why you wait so long for beer. I regularly turn around beer in 3 weeks; sometimes much less (See 11 Day lager video: ua-cam.com/video/YxpswhNvQIY/v-deo.html)
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY Thanks for the reply. I'm interested to hear why you think keeping the trub/yeast may improve beer quality? I have seen the videos you mentioned, but watched them again. I totally agree with you wrt the secondary fermentation. I don't do this either.
I may have not posed my concerns clearly, which I will try to again RE the dry hops - I concede that trub may be covered by the yeast which will act as a barrier... Will the hops be covered by this too?
My concern is that there will be too much contact with the hops which I have found results in a "Plant material" taste or grassiness in the beer. I love NEIPA's, and as such go as big as I can on hops (About 8g/L).
To come back to my origional question - does the ability to remove trub/dry hops/yeast add to the quality of the final beer *when not racking off of the beer and serving from a uni-tank?*
A final note - your videos are really concise and informative. Well done on producing excellent content. Cheers
Serving beer from the same uni-tank that was used as the fermenter is a different issue than fermenting beer in a single vessel before kegging it because now the beer can sit on the trub for months before it is all consumed instead of a few weeks if only fermenting in it and then racking to a keg.
One of my points in the linked article/video is leaving beer alone to ferment out in the same vessel avoids the unnecessary risk of exposing the beer to contamination and oxidation during transfer as well as saving on extra unnecessary work. Of course, if you use closed transfers into CO2 purged vessels then that issue is moot, but it is still unnecessary work.
Hops from the boil is part of the trub that settles out first, so it too is covered by settling yeast after several days, and dry hops are only added for a period of days as well and those can be removed if desired or left to sit until kegging days later.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY thanks for the reply. Agreed, racking to a keg after everything has settled out is much different to serving beer from the same tank it has fermented in. I would like to try the unitank concept, but may get some kegs if that makes more sense down the road. The whole drive with using a unitank is to cut down on equipment and by extension cleaning and storage space. I like the idea of fermenting and serving from one tank, which is what drove my initial question about having the ability to dump trub/yeast/boil hops/dry hops out of the fermenter thereby ensuring better shelf life and quality of the beer.
I guess we all have different approaches, own different equipment and enjoy different beer styles. Again, thanks for the feedback and for the great videos! I think I will go with the Fermzilla with the dump valve. It will be more work to clean, but less work than cleaning kegs... Once I have done a batch and kept if for a few weeks I'll let you know how I find it. Cheers
Okay, so how do you get the Fermenter King in the US?
Blichmann now resells them under their Anvil brand.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY Thanks!
Thank you for always funny videos
Recently started watching your video
I want to know why I didn't know
I am Japanese and know english
I want to spread your video to Japan
I want to help you
I'm waiting for your reply!
So if you were looking to invest (read, spend some $$) in a pressure capable fermenter, what would you recommend?
I'm a fan of these too, but if you don't mind spending the money, I really like my Spike Flex+. However, there are other stainless steel options out there that I have yet to try.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY I've looked at the Spike products before. My next purchase is likely to be a "buy-once-cry-once" affair
You have the stand for the All Rounder upside down.. it should make it a little more stable.
Upside down? I guess it depends on who you ask or what picture/video you see. For example the demo video Kee does on KegLand's own UA-cam video about the All Rounder shows it the way I have it in the video.
Either way, it didn't matter for me. It still tipped over easily.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY lol I always went by the manual.. which I just checked again, and they have the stand different ways for the two different fermenter sizes.. touché!
LoL!
Man I have a Fermzilla and it’s still in the box, I bought it last year, I really have to pull that thing out and mess with it.
Hi Larry,
You should move the 2 handles up onto the larger ring so it is much easier to move/carry around. Just pound them out and reinstall them on the larger ring. It only takes a few seconds to do it. Contact me if you need any help. Trong of Homebrewer LAB.
Thanks for the tip. That's exactly what I'm planning on doing.
I'll be working on a video about your SPUNDit soon.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY Cool! If you need a Blowtie to compare with, I can send you one. Trong
Snap off the handles of the snub nose stand and place them on the top if the stand instead.
Commented to early 🤣
Great video Larry!
Thanks. Yep. I’m moving the handles.
i have a solution for the all rounder tipping over, put it on top of stand not bottom :P
Funny. I just assembled it in the EXACT same manner Kee shows in KegLand's own video about it. LOL
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY but thats the down under assembly version, they flush toilets other direction there :P
The All Rounder stand is upside down!
Thanks. I set it up in the video the exact same way as Kee did in his Kegland videos. Doesn’t matter though. Same problem exists with instability either way.
Problem with your allrounder got an easy fix.... Metal stand put it other way. Smaller side on the bottom... 😎
I considered trying that. However, I was concerned about how well the stand would support the weight of a full fermenter with the contact area higher and closer to the side walls than underneath the vessel.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY no problem whatsoever this what I've been doing from day one, take care mate
i do this, works great, tons of beers this way
You have the stand for the all rounder upsidedown and your dip tube looks to be a couple inch's to long.
Upside down? LOL. That's funny. There's lots of people doing it this way. Many videos and pictures of it shown that way including Kee at KegLand in his demo video! LOL
More seriously though, that's a crappy design if it allows people to put it together incorrectly.
Being an engineer and designing products for all sorts of industries over the years, ensuring that products are designed to prevent the end user from installing it incorrectly was always an important design criteria.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY if you flip it over you'll notice it works like a ball and socket and the fermenter does not roll out of the stand. After you've cleaned your fermenter you flip the stand over and the fermenter over and it allows it to drip dry without the opening touching the ground.
@@kevinrogowski8335 thanks but mine still rolls over when turning the stand upside down.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY it should rotate, it allows you to tilt your beer to the end of the dip tube
It's a pity that the snub nose don't have the lid like fermzilla, it would have been a winner 👍
I agree. If only the lid was wider…
I understand the reluctance to do so. A pressure vessel’s weakest point is usually the size of the opening.
I’ve seen a number of images of exploded FermZilla fermenters, and each have failed around the lid or dump valve.
The 60 litre snub nose does indeed have a larger opening so maybe check that out.
@@Keg-King who in the US is selling the gen3 version of the smaller 35l? Looked around and didn’t see anyone selling the newest version only previous
Like I said early in the video, Blichmann Engineering is their US distributor.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY yeah heard that in video but didn’t see it for sale on their website. Figured maybe it was being distributed to other sellers.
Your allrounder stand is upsidedown
Thanks. It’s funny because Kegland’s own video shows it the way I have it.
easyily cleaned, half hour soak in oxy clean
I wish my experiences were the same as yours, but they have not been so easy for me. I always have to wipe crud from my fermenters since soaking doesn't completely do it on its own. I also don't like to waste that much water every time I want to clean a fermenter. Water isn't cheap here.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY hey larry, yeah im from Scotland, cheap water and an unending supply :(