Big changes for the Nike Running product line in 2024
Вставка
- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
- My thoughts and analysis on Nike's recent struggles and the rumored structural changes coming to the Nike Running product lines in 2024 and into 2025.
0:00 Intro
3:06 Heritage Nike silhouettes
8:03 Product line tiers
11:06 Nike running 2024 (into 2025) breakdown
20:03 Outro
Runner’s World UK article: www.runnersworld.com/uk/gear/...
Nike Pegasus Premium first look • Nike Pegasus Premium f...
Nike Running 2017-2023: As told via the Pegasus model line • Nike Running 2017-2023...
Tokyo Marathon 2024 Super Shoe Observations • Tokyo Marathon 2024 Su...
Disclosures: No one is paying me to make this video and no one has any editorial control over the contents of this video. Everything I cover in this video is my own opinion and experience.
Product Images courtesy of Nike and Adidas.
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Subscriber count at time of upload: 6,746
Intro & outro music from Epidemic Sound:
Cyclical Darkness - Rand Aldo
www.epidemicsound.com/artists...
🤙🏻 - Спорт
I really feel like the 'elite' versions of the race shoes will disconnect the average runner with the elites. I feel like, that as a consumer you want to wear what the pros wear, that's why runners for example want to run in the Alphafly 3 or Asics sky Paris etc. This whole Adidas Evo really disconnects the bond with the Adios Pro 3 for me in that sense. (From a marketing standpoint)
I agree, but it’s going to happen. I don’t know if it will be a transitional phase for a few years or permanent. We need a bridge to what comes next and the Evo/Elite things seems like that.
Surely there will be an adios pro 4 or something that is mass produced and marketed which is heavily influenced by the Evo 1 development models.
At that point it would be ideal for the elite runners to win races in whatever shoe that is.
@brianreiter5572 some pictures of the adios pro 4 have appeared already, and it seems heavily influenced by the evo 1
Yup… this is what is happening. The AP4 is a direct descendant of the Evo 1…
@@SagasuRunning The AP4 is way more comfortable than the Evo. It feels fantastic.
I think it's utterly bizarre that the company that brought plated shoes to the market with their racing shoes in 2017 is now basically the only company that doesn't have a great plated Super Trainer in 2024. I'd been a Nike fanatic since I started running in the late 70s...but over the last 5-6 years I've almost given up on them.
Agree. It’s very odd.
If your gonna do someth8 g in a plated shoe, just use a Vaporfly. It’s actually all the other b4ands that are taking your money by thinking you need a plated trainer and a plated racer.
In many ways the VF3 is the best “super trainer” out there…beyond price. I know many people, myself included, that are Nike runners who use a VF in place of a super trainer… even many Nike elites seem to be doing that. Training fast days in the VF3 and racing in the AF3 (or something VF2).
Plated supertrainer is not necessary; for example Superblast is non carbon plate
I think this is also Nike’s feeling. Both the Peg Plus and Vomero Premium seem to be their solution for this… at least on paper.
As someone who worked in run specialty for the Brooks family consolidation (essentially what Nike is doing, where Brooks consolidated their lines into families and renamed them), it doesn't go smoothly for the average consumer. There were a lot of conversations of "Do you have the Transcend?" "No, that's the Glycerin GTS now" "Why did they change it?" "Its the same shoe but different name to make it easier" etc. The average consumer isn't going to sit down and try to figure out why the Pegasus Plus is what it is, or where the Invincible/Infinity went when they go to buy a new pair, etc. Obviously it's going to happen regardless of internet comments, but I don't envy running specialty folks for the next year or so with Nike.
I wish Nike would invest more into their public image though, I think that is hurting them more than "remote working" (as the CEO blamed things on). For a lot of folks out there, Nike doesn't have a great reputation, and while it's obviously anncedotal, but over 2 1/2 years of run specialty, they were the hardest shoes to put on people's feet because I would pull one, and wouldn't even get it out of the box before they say they don't like Nike as a company (probably 1/5 times), you also had outfitters (especially the older ones) that refused to pull them as options unless the customer requested it. Now, I don't think there's such thing as a good corporation once you get to that size, but it seems like they can't help but take one step forwards and two back. You had the debacle with the Oregon Project that people still remember, especially as folks like Kara Goucher get more popular which has had long lasting effects (to the point where if you go onto Nike's IG, you'll still see a lot of comments on almost every post of how Nike is anti-women). Botched launches with consumer frustrations (hello Alphafly 3). The Olympic uniform reveal was a disaster for them. Etc. Plain and simple they have a problem in that department where almost all of the other brands don't.
I dunno, I really want Nike to do better but I don't think that renaming/restructuring product lines is the best first step
Great perspective. Yes, Nike’s leadership and marketing choices have not helped them at all the past few years. The ongoing drama with their elite and pro athletes also doesn’t help. They have dug themselves a deep hole with that…
100% agree. Idk how it is with you but there's never been any Nike product managers checking in on our store, while the other brands do so regularly. It makes things so much easier to deal with when you have a contact in On or Saucony or Adidas that you can call.
Asics approach seems to be to maintain the legacy Cumulus with a traditional feel but modernizing the foam, and develop the Novablast in parallel with more design freedom.
@tomrichardson5433 I would have agreed with that until this year. The new Cumulus makes zero sense, in the he legacy or compared to the Novablast….
@@SagasuRunning I got the cumulus 25 because I needed a goretex shoe. Felt like the 21 but with better cushion. Still waiting for the blisters to fully heal. Glad its spring and I can run in the superblast again.
Great analysis. In depth content like this really separates you from all the other running shoe channels!
Thank you. Thank you. Plenty more of this type of content coming on May. 🤙🏻
I was once a niike fanboy ... like craaazy. But the fuel tank is empty and except their racing shoes there is simply no reason for me to buy Nike, other brands do it better.
And that the CEO even admitted that they are in a littlebit of a low makes those changes kinda reasonable.
Those changes actually make sense to roll up the running shoe lineup and bring something new. And ye..there are some shoes listened here I definitely want to look up.
Oh btw: completly random but your shoe washing video turned out to be pure gold
I agree… there are some interesting shoes here. Let’s see what releases when.
I’m glad the shoe washing video was useful. 🤙🏻
I washed all my shoes using your shoe washing video and now do a quick wash after every run.
I mean I did previously wash shoes now and then but it was inspiration to just keep them clean after every run.
These product strategy / product lines up videos are fantastic.
Thank you. 🙏🏻
best nike product overview and commentary. well done!
Thank you. 🙏🏻
Great video! Appreciate the level of detail. 👌
I appreciate the support. 🤙🏻
Excellent Nike product roadmap explanation ! Thanks !
Thank you. I’ve seen alot of confusion out there about this so had to try to clarify it. We shall see what actually releases the next few years.
Really awesome video, thank you, enjoyed your analysis and speculation.
Thank you. I enjoy making these videos. I’m glad they have an audience. 🤙🏻
Superb Content as usual👌
Thank you. 🙏🏻
Good job with the pictures insertion on the video.
Thank you… this is (mostly) all released info so it’s within fair use for me to show and highlight it all.
@@SagasuRunning Its always better to have images or short clips on the video. Speaking for 15-20 mins to the camera alone might be boring sometimes, even though the information is accurate.
I remember that someone actually mentioned to you in a previous video to add some images to the video. Maybe put it in a corner while you're talking or show the whole image while you talk in the background. Anyways, its always good to associate the information with a photo or video. That way it can be easy to watch by anyone.
Hope it makes sense :)
Btw I'm following you for quite some time. I'm glad to se that this channel is growing organically.
It comes up in the comments of the World Major Marathon super shoe videos I do. I can’t use images in those as i rush to get them out close to the event and since they are monetized fair use policy doesn’t work for me with press images and random stuff on Instagram. Therefore I can’t use images in those videos. Every other video I do, where it makes sense or adds value, I add images and b-roll.
Thanks for this, makes a lot more sense the number and variance of the leaks that are out. Nike doing a big gamble, and a lot if what they are missing (great trainers and in between options and elite focused inaccessible shoes) are covered so maybe it will work out
Nike will figure it out, they always do, but it might take a bit for them to rebuild some trust in their non-race models.
I absolutely loved the infinity run 2. Ran my first marathon in it and it was great!
I love the Infinity Run 1, spent a lot of time in that shoe. The 2 had the best upper of the first three though.
The most excited I've ever been with a new shoe was the original Vaporfly and then the next percent was amazing. Now, my go to racing shoe is the Asics meta speed edge. It just feels like it has more pop than the vaporfly 3. But, I'm very excited to try the Nike super stack height shoe. I loved the original Prime X strung as a great long run shoe and easy day shoe.
Interesting. That doesn’t sound like you are a good candidate for the Vomero Premium. I enjoy the MSEP… but still prefer the VF. I’ll have some content this month diving back into the VF story.
With the new foam in the Pegasus 41 it will make it a faster, but still durable shoe. It will be trainer for the Vaporfly. The Vomero is heading to be the trainer for the Alphafly. It should be an interesting 2024 Nike release this summer!
Instead of a 3 shoe rotation for Nike only 2 will be needed!
This is how it’s been for a while. The Peg/VF combo has been the combo for years. With the V17 and AF3 they also now make a lot of sense together. I think they plan on making this even more literal in marketing.
I've just seen the pictures of the pegasus plus, so I think it makes sense to have the invincible as the vomero plus.
But that 60mm shoe got me very curious.. not that I'll get it, though. I still intend on using more traditional shoes
The 60mm monster… is a monster. I’m looking forward to actually details of it….
Great overview and outlook, Nike really needs to get going. I know you love the Peg Chris but the Peg 36 I once got just did not blow me away with dull old React EVA and I haven't seen anything in the Peg since that made me want one. The Tempo next % was great and I bought a second pair (which I rarely do with the size of my rotation) but it is so old now and the brick of React in the Zoom Fly is just another example that performance comes from the foam, not marketing insisting to put a plate in it. Quite frankly embarrassing that one of the biggest brands has such gaps and prefers to sell a multitude of cheap primitive shoes like the Winflo, Quest and what nor.
I would be happy with one or two really good shoes per category, not sure 3 are needed.
The Peg36 was their generic EVA. React forms was a TPU.
Agree on all the budget and discount store models. Having 1 or 2 is fine, having 8-10 like they do now is noise.
I have concerns about the Peg41, that will be my next video, but hoping for the best.
It does seems like toe 1-2 good performance shoes are coming… let’s see how they actually run though.
@@SagasuRunning I don't have much hope for the next Peg, I see the Pegasus as the Brooks (admittedly a bit unfair) or Boost of Nike, so many customers that don't actually want any change as the "has always been that way shoe" works for them and they don't want to mess with it, which is fair, not everyone is a shoe nerd 😉
Great and reasonable outlook for Nike‘s future line-up.
I hope Nike will release a new Pegasus Turbo (V4) very soon. Light, responsive and simply fast. Still love my Pegasus Turbo 35‘s and Pegasus Turbo 2‘s so much.
There have been no rumors on the Peg Plus (Turbo 4) release date. Though it would be crazy if they didn’t release it for summer. We shall see. 🤞🏻
Great video, though this is a bit of a marketing mess - it’s detrimental to the Pegasus that there are 3 different ‘levels’ .. with time the lower/entry level shoe on the line will get always looked down. Other weird thing is that they don’t seem to have developed a true super trainer (eg Superblast, Speed 3/4, Boston 12) which can bridge the everyday to the racing line as other brands have.
Yup… that’s the thing. The standard models will eventually be sidelined by the consumer.
It does seem like the Pegasus Plus (Turbo) and the 60mm monster are what Nike seems to me focusing on (at the moment) to fill the super trainer gap.
It’s also odd that Nike really defined the category with the original Zoom Fly and set the mold for a super trainer with the Tempo (along with the Endorphin Speed).
I was such a zoom fly fan. Hopefully they will fix the zoom fly w the 6th version and bridge the gap between trainers and racers
It looks like the ZF6 may finally be that shoe… 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
The purpose of the Structure is stability right? Asics has 2 models with the Kayano and Gt-2000. They will try to match I bet. Saucony has the Omni, Guide, and echelon
Yup. Think of the Structure as Pegasus with stability. It’s been around for 25 versions, so it goes way back. It’s similar to how the GT-2000 and the Cumulus models have always worked from Asics.
Can you make a video on why so many pros are wearing the vaporfly 2 over the vaporfly 3? Thanks!
On it. Will have it out next week. I’ve been working on this for a few weeks.
Great video 🎉 congrats on it.
The restructuring makes sense from a simplification standpoint but would definitely agree that they’re going to have to fill in a lot of empty space just because they need to make a “plus” or “premium”. Could just lead to a bit of cannibalization at the end with too many versions more or less of the same product. 3 seems a bit excessive.
It’s also strange that they would discontinue the invincible and Infinity lines which have way more brand equity these days than the structure and vomero. I feel like it’s the other way around - they should kill the heritage shoes which don’t represent innovation and build on the brand equity of the invincible and Inifinity. Would love to hear your thoughts on that!
Thank you. 🙏🏻
Agree on the brand equity point...however, Nike really loves it's heritage and the Peg/Vomero/Structure are as heritage and heritage gets for Nike. It makes sense from a Nike POV...but not a consumer POV.
As I said, it seems like alot of chaos at Nike right now, so who know what will change and what won't. Seems like everyhting is up-for-grabs at the moment in Beaverton.
Will be very interesting to follow up. I do think that innovation and creative spirit are much needed. Simplification to a certain degree too but I feel like this 3 pronged structure isn’t really going to do that well. As far as I know, no other brands have tiered their shoe categories as such. Would be curious to know if other brands have similarly structured lineups and how it’s working for them
Nike has this fundamental structure in some of their other lines. There are some Nike Basketball, Tennis and Soccer lines that shoe something like this. From what I gather in the comments on my videos they do well.
I’m not aware of any other running brand that does something like this. At best they have performance and budget ranges, but that’s are distinctly different (Nike also has that).
Some boot brands doe tiers to product as doe some skate shoe brands but nothing as literal as what Nike is proposing here.
Thanks for your replies. Appreciate it
Looking forward to the Pegasus plus!
I think we all are at this point. Let’s hope it’s the real thing… 🤞🏻
They closed the Nike flagship store in Georgetown, Washington, DC. I was shocked by that strategically. It was always a high traffic location on M Street and a premium boutique. I’m sure the numbers were bad during Covid but that decision was surprising.
Now there is a New Balance boutique on M St. Pacer Running - the local store - has expanded locations over the last several years. The running retail business seems good but Nike is just not there.
Also Nike has taken huge brand hits with the stories about pressuring sponsored women to be thinner and thinner into unhealthy and cutting women loose when they are pregnant. The Cara Goucher story of asking for promotional events while not paying her are bad. Finally the performance drugs culture and apparent tolerance in Nike Oregon Project and Bowerman are bad.
These things are cumulative.
Using a man to promote their sports bras didn't help either.
Their retail choices have been problematic. They are facing, like most retailers, massive shoplifting and theft problems, especially in high traffic stores. Still, their choices have been odd at the retail level.
Here in Taiwan we no longer have a flagship presence anywhere won the island. Nike isn’t actually officially in Taiwan… but they have always worked with an importer to have a flagship store or two that has the full line. The two we had in Taipei, the only ones on this island, both closed last year and it doesn’t seem like there will be any replacement. We still have basic Nike stores, if you need a Peg or Winflo and maybe a Vomero, but forget everything else. Nike sneakerhead stores and a Jordan store are huge here and there are endless 3rd party retailers who sell all the latest Air Maxes and whatever. It’s beyond frustrating at the moment and I have to think it has something to do with contracts (beyond the global macro issue in play with Taiwan).
I agree… it is cumulative. Poor C-Suite choices since 2021 are coming back to hurt them badly.
@@SagasuRunning I'm sure there are a lot of retail difficulties but I doubt that massive shoplifting in Georgetown was it the though.
They had acquired the former Barnes and Noble flagship building in DC and carved a Nike swoosh into the stone which is still there. It only had one entrance and exit by the cash register and you had to pass through a scanner to go in and out.
I mean, maybe it was too much shoplifting but it's like the Magnificent Mile or Bond Street of DC. The location was a multistory corner building in between the Four Seasons and Patagonia. Somehow New Balance and Allbirds can manage a boutique stores roughly across the street from that building. I think it must boil down to "strategery" and the excessive reliance on direct to consumer strategy that you discussed.
@@brianreiter5572 I have honk you nailed the core reason with your last comment. They really did go too far with direct to consumer… and in their 2billion cost cutting they need to really cut a lot.
In Seattle, for example, they closed stores due to theft and opened new ones in odd locations. They are also opening massive flagship stores all over Japan right now, Tokyo Nair got a new Nike flagship running location in Harajuku.(to be fair Nike is the dominant running brand in Japan)… so some parts of the world Nike is expanding.
They closed a couple in the Portland, OR area too.
Can’t wait what Nike gonna drop this year! Question, is it true there will be Adizero SL 2 this year and if that comes out, should I get that over Supernova Rise?
SL 2 will be interesting, they put all lightstrike pro midsole, that’s what I heard
They are two different purposes. The Supernova Rise is a daily shoe focused on easy running, it’s not an Adizero shoe. The SL 2 IS and Adizero shoe and is made to be a true all all rounder and capable of faster running and workouts. They seems to be designed to work together.
Heel to toe LSP encased in a carrier of LS2.
The Running Warehouse have a vid up today on the SL2
@paultopham8626 Yup… the only new thing I saw there was that JT is also the product line manager for the SL…. He also is the lead on the new Supernova series…. I don’t know or expect that overlap here. This means the SNR and SL2 will work together and not compete with one another.
Invincible 4? Do you know where you found the leaks? I’d love to see them!
Follow @the_secret_shoe on Instagram… that’s a good place to start.
Asked a Nike rep same question via DM on IG. Said was unaware of any forthcoming Invincible 4 update but to keep an eye on the Nike web site etc.. in spite of new color ways to the I3 prices have dropped on them quite a bit. Also noticed you can no longer customize a pair as well. That might mean the I4s may be out soon 🤷🏻♂️
I think this is very smart. The running shoe lineup should be understandable for everyone, and shouldn’t require extensive outside research into stability/carbon plate/heel drop for the average person. Just name the shoes logically and I think sales increase. Someone new to Nike May want a tried and tested shoe and might not know what type they need, and boom maybe it’s structure or peg. Or maybe someone is new to Nike but they want something poppy and innovative, boom, peg premium or invincible maybe. Also I’m always a fan of running shoes normalizing going back to basics. There’s a place for a 60mm cushion for guys like Connor Mantz, but I think we’ve gotten out of hand with carbon plates, cushion, etc, especially for the average person who doesn’t have good foot/ankle strength, etc.
I totally agree on your last point. Any runner would benefit from running in a lower stack “basic” shoe. Foot and ankle strength are vital for all runners. It’s something I talk about ALOT on this channel.
Interestingly, the standard, plus and premium is how Nike market their football boots and it appears to work for them
Just makes sense for them to do that with their running shoes
Yup, no doubt they learned from that. Or some manager in that product line gave a good presentation on returns and convinced upper management.
Do we know when the adios 9 is coming out???
I’ve heard June in the past…. However now alot of Adizero stuff seems to be “summer” or “back half of the year”. Regardless, it will be before Berlin 2024 in Sept.
I think that changing the names of infinity and invincible to structure plus and vomero plus is very possible, it is a bit like the naming used for Apple tablets and phones. On the other hand, it took several years to build the brand of the new models, each of these models has its fans, and now every seller will have to explain that the "old invincible" is now vomero plus... what a waste of energy and cool names!
Yes, it’s an odd choice given how they have built those new lines. We will see what happens. Everything at the moment seems completely reactionary from Nike.
Nike also need to look at reducing the drop - all their current shoes are mostly 8 - 10
The thing with most of Nike’s range now is they they use such compressive foams between ZoomX and now ReactX, with a lot of sink, that if they used any less drop than 8mm you’d often feel like you were in a zero drop of even negative drop shoe often.
@@SagasuRunning I currently have the boston12 and adios pro 3 on rotation. Feel it really suits my fore - mid foot strike. Looking for an easy day shoe Will the invincible 3 (10 mm) work for me?
@@Bijits2510 It will work fine...but there are much better options out there. If you want a max cushion shoe look at the Asics Novablast 4, Brooks Ghost Max and if you like a little lower stack check out the excellent Adidas Supernova Rise.
This marketing strategy reminds me a lot of their soccer cleat’s marketing which has worked well for them no doubt.
No doubt they are paying attention to they. I also know they do their tiers with some of their basketball lines.
The "Elite" models, for both Nike and Adidas so far are likely not going to be a main shoe line. Rather they will be a "Prototype" release to comply with regulations, same as the Evo 1 is.
Yup… but they will be the bleeding edge that we can buy as consumers. Both what they need to do per the regulations but also what gets many of us excited. I’m happy to see the tier out race shoes… give us a strong base model and then create a very niche model with all the latest in it. Adidas has shown the way here… other brands, not just Nike, will follow.
Really good video overview. Used to be a massive Nike fan, but they shut down all online sales in New Zealand via their website (yes, you read that right) about a year ago. Purchases can only be made instore, and their return policy scrapped. Up to then, all I was buying was Nike. Since, I've bought about 8 pairs of shoes, mostly Asics and Adidas, zero Nike. The shops stocking Nike just have a basics, like the Peg. Want the Streakfly (which I love) no chance. The range is so poor. And Nike product has been superseded by others in terms of performance - so really, though I thought that I was missing out, I'm not, but Nike are.
This is very similar to the situation in Taiwan. Though you can still buy online here, it’s the only official Nike presence here actually. But stores stock only the basics and if you want anything with a “fly” in the name at retail… not happening. People still manage to find Vaporflys here but have yet to see anyone in an Alphafly 3…. At all.
Hoka and Brooks are really making a huge push here and I’d say Hoka is by far the leader at the moment. Though Asics remains as popular as they always have been.
Adidas does a great job at retail here and you can find anything you want at most stores.
Great analysis! Nike still lacks a racing model for slower marathon runners and heelstrikers. I need to look for something like saucony EP4 or New Balance SC Elite v4 to get good shoe for 3:30h-4:00h marathon pace
You’ll never see that from Nike. It’s not in their DNA. It is also what the Zoom Fly always was. So the ZF6 will be as close to that as they get this fell.
@@SagasuRunning zoom fly 5 wasn’t good shoe, invincible 3 is more fun. I hope zoom fly 6 will be full zoomx foam, not some recycled foams
I personally think 3 tiered system for everyday shoes will create more confusion to the customers and plus they will have to create a lot of shoes with possibly lower volumes so profitability might get hit if the low volume counterparts are squeezed in price from competitor brands that can produce a larger volume of equal or better performance at a better price level.
I tend to agree. However, you also have to think that many stores won;t have all three models. Almost all should have the standard model and some will have the Plus model. The premium model will likely be only flagship Nike stores or online, even then they will be rare.
As other commenters have said. Nike has a similar tier system for their soccer (football) cleats (boots) and they do well with it. Some Nike Basketball product lines also do this.
We shall see.
@@SagasuRunning I like what Soloman is doing with SLabs. That's their technology development platform and Nike could create Nike Labs for shoe technologies they want to test. Even Brooks had a similar BL models every now and then. I have Aurora-BL and it was limited production which they produced some more afterwards but their tech test has become DNA Loft v3 in everyday models.
Nike did sort of have that about 10-15 years ago. That was what Bowerman used to be, not anymore. I honestly don’t know why they moved away from that as the Bowerman editions of shoes were usually stripped down and fast…and obviously not for casual runners, just like S/LAB.
Given the success that the AlphaFly V1-3 have had, dropping the trainer with the airpods seems like a HUGE gap. I own 3 pairs of Tempo Next%, and if I can get more without paying over retail, I'll probably get more. But the idea of a Tempo 2 with a midsole profile of the AF V3 was making my wallet vibrate. I wouldn't touch a Zoom Fly if it was given to me for free...unless they completely redesign that shoe...
I actually agree. While I wasn’t a fan of the Tempo and I don’t think it sold well… I do know that those who loved it really LOVED it and bought multiple pairs.
Never understood the infinity run. It was react just like the last 4 versions of the peg.
It didn’t used to be that way. The Infinity 1 came out when the Pegasus was still on Cushlon. Plus the Infinity series had mild stability built into the heel and a much more rockered geometry, very different from the traditional feel of the Pegasus.
It's interesting that I actually figure out a picture of Nike as a brand from direct opposite standpoint. I have never considered Nike as a running brand in the first place. For what it's worth, Nike is a commercial/sports fashion brand, which simply happened to thrive several times with some good running models. However, barring the success of Alphafly/Vaporfly, picking shoes like Pegasus in 2024 for running is as odd as it can get. You can run in it, no doubt, but why would you - given what market has to offer?
Saucony, New Balance, Asics, Hoka, adidas - these brands are at the forefront in the running shoe industry, have been for the past several years. Nike is barely there.
Interesting. Nike was founded as a running brand is is still a running brand to many people out there, myself included. Basketball, soccer, tennis… those all came later. As did the sportswear and fashion. I’ll agree Nike has let their running line falter a bit recently and there is still competition out there form other brands… but Nike is, and will always be, relevant in running.
Did you listen to Inside Running interview with Nike product managers?
I didn't, got a link? I read commentary on it and other articles covering the same info. It's an interesting time at Nike right now.
The other thing that hurts Nike (aside from folk that just don’t like Nike because Nike) is a lot of normal people ( not us shoe geeks) don’t think Nikes are “proper” running shoes probably due to their massive popularity with lifestyle models that once upon a time were performance shoes. They say brooks hoka or saucony mizuno are “proper” running shoes. Much better than the air max 90 they’d been running in 🙄.
I’ve seen this as well, even felt it on occasion. Back in NYC I’ve had other runners ask me when I was going to get some “real” running shoes like Hokas or Ons… though most people saying that are very uninformed and only going by trends they see online.
The really need to focus on their daily runners, thats where the majority of runners run in not in their elite racing models. With other brands you really see the drip down effect of their newest tech to their daily runners unlike nike.
Agree. It was happening for a while with Nike but then stopped for a few years… seems like it may be heading back there now. We shall see where they go with it.
At this point im finding my self in favor of new balance 2024 line up
Cool. We all find what works for us. I’m not a fan of NB current direction, all the 2024 models I’ve tried thus far (SC Elite v4, Rebel v4) are a complete mess. To the point where I’m basically writing off the brand for 2024 and hoping they change course for 2025. The SC Pacer v2 is still out there but at this point I have low expectations it will resolve any of the fundament design problems with their 2024 line.
Because of the difference in feel between the vaporfly 3 and the alpha fly models, I tend to use the vaporfly (2 and now the 3) as my daily training shoes for everything from aerobic mid week distance, to speed sessions to long runs. I then use puma nitro deviates for base running. Alphafly 3s for racing. This is because Nike has no effective training shoes and because I can get the vaporflys at a heavy discount it absolutely makes it worthwhile training in them most days. Good shoe too!
I’d mix in a non plated shoe to that mix. If I’m racing in VF3s, I train a lot in them as well and combine them with the Peg. It’s a great combo.
@@SagasuRunning I don't really see the benefit anymore to running in non plated shoes. The puma's have the plastic plate and so are no where near as stiff as real carbon. VF3 is a great training shoe now and AF3 a fantastic racing shoe (over longer distances). The peg isn't up to scratch at the moment. Maybe the 41s will be.
@JMC2727 foot strength, leg strength and proprioceptive feedback. I have multiple videos discussing the benefits at length. Everyone who be running in a non-plated shoe frequently… if not most of the time.
Arc'teryx did the same product name reconstruction a year or so ago and it's been abysmal to say the least.
To be fair… that brand has many other challenges at the moment too…
Nike Vomero 17 is already available, isn't it? As I remember, it was released in October last year.
Yes, it’s been out for a while. There is no news on a V18 at the moment.
For the algo!!
😏😎🤙🏻 (to be fair, Nike, Adidas and Asics product roadmaps are things I built this channel on. I will always keep them updated).
@@SagasuRunning it’s fascinating to me. I love it
@MidLifeRunner Same. Content strategy is something I’ve done for a long time. It’s personal now that I run a channel…. Also, check your Instagram DMs… I have a question for you.
I would have thought that the zoom fly would fit in the structure tier with the streak fly being its elite version. They are the trainers to the race shoes. Then you have vapourfly and alphafly with their elite models with next gen tech
That doesn’t make sense. Plus it seems that Nike is elevating the Structure back into the main focus of the running line. Zoom Fly and Streakfly are importent models on their own and likely wouldn’t be rolled up together. Plus both models offer zero stability/support.
I am looking forward to being re-educated by Nike. Hope to get a Certificate of Achievement at the end...
🤣
i actually was searching for new running shoes a few nights ago and went to nike I was wondering the same thing like there is nothing special here even the colors are bland
Ya, Nike.com is really barren right now unless you want a flashy colorway of the Invincible 3 or InfinityRN 4.
There is still too much fluff in Nike's lineup. Consolidating their lines and then offering three models of every shoe doesn't help.
Agree. However now it will just be bloat as at least most of the shoes will have a purpose. The fluff currently in the line are all purposeless models.
This past few years I think Nike has just been at the wrong end of the form/function spectrum. Their stuff always looks great, but it just doesn't 'work'. For example their running racing vest - it's way too short in terms of body length, and way too wide in the shoulders. So many people have said this! Or another one, the AF3 vs. Metaspeed Sky Paris; the former looks awesome but doesn't fit properly and makes an awful noise, the latter is forgiving, compliments you and is much lighter. There's no comparison if you can get past the brand value.
I agree to this, somewhat. The Nike trail vest is actually a funny one. Not even Nike Trail athletes use it. I feel like the ACG designers threw it together without ever leaving the Beaverton campus.
The AF3 is a technical achievement and if it works for you...it works for you. However, simple wins ultimately. The Metaspeeds, Vaporfly and Evo 1 all share the simplicity of the older racing flats. Simple always wins.
As someone who's on a high school team, almost everyone wears the Nike Invincible, no one cares about the Pegasus or other Nike running shoes. It's surprising they are getting rid it of too, I know they are trying to trim down their line, but then get rid of all the awful cheap shoes, that no one uses or likes.
It just seems like the name is going away, not the shoe. However, you have an interesting point. For you average HS runnerthe brand recognition of the Invincible is very high…. Not so much for the Vomero.
Nike didn't do themselves any favors with their poor Bud Light-like marketing decisions. Nonetheless, my first pair was the Leather Cortez in the early 70s. That was followed by the original Waffle Trainer. That's how far back I go with Nike.
Definitely not… but that was a drop in the bucket compared to poor long term strategic thinking at the leadership level.
@@SagasuRunning indeed
Sounds like the marketing department is just trying to satisfy the shareholders and not the actual runners.
Tiered product pricing is just cringe - think Apple/Samsung with their base, plus, and max phone models.
Yup… that’s definitely what it is. I’m also an Apple fanboy and I can say their tier products make zero sense in reality… and I’m by all means a “pro” user in Apple’s eyes and have been for well over 25 years…
As a Nike fanboy but also runner, Its quite telling that my perception of their non-“super shoes” are trash.
I mean Nike does have everything you need to train in… but beyond the Pegasus, none of it is particularly exciting or that good.
@@SagasuRunning I’m sure they do, yet I’m not sure their marketing strategy aligns well with running communities. In my experience, Independent shops with treadmills to check your running gait with lots of shoes… Don’t stock Nike.
Part of this new strategy is to embrace local running stores again. That being said, they have a long hill to climb there. They dug themselves a deep hole.
I hope the 60mm+ version come out just for Woman, it's getting ridiculous.
It will come out for both. What will be really ridiculous is how they scale the shoe up to the large US Men’s sizes. In a 13 or 14 US Men’s the shoe will be pushing 70mm…
@@SagasuRunning i hope it remains just a rumor… 😭
Prime x v1 is my most beloved shoe. If the weight and response is good, i would definitely try them on!
I wasn’t aware that stack height is scaled up (or down?), I thought it’s always the same regardless of shoe size. Is that really so and the case with all brands and their shoes? So when Adidas has 39mm (AP3) or 50mm (PX2) pressed on the midsole, it may actually be something else depending on the shoe size, or?
Forfot-stack is the same(i think), but with long feet the drop will make the heel-stack even higer than in a size 9, who most brands use as "statistics-shoe".
Nice to see nike trim the fat, with more competition the consumer wins
Not sure this is trimming the fat in the performance range, it’s a net gain of a few models, but at least they make sense in a structure and taxonomy now.
Nike have got lazy. They only really care about those top tier, top earning shoes! If it wasn't for the high sales of the Vaporfly and Alphafly then Nike's offerings are currently rubbish. I do like their sports clothing range and I also own a pair of Alphafly's so I'm not a hater, I wish they would up their game when it comes to designing a proper decent daily running shoe because the Pegasus just doesn't cut it with me and I use my Peg 39's for gym stuff
Agree, they got too comfortable at the top. I have always loved the Pegasus but realize I’m the minority. They do need to focus on the training side of the line considerably though.
I'm 30 seconds in and can already see I have no need to go on. The Vomero 17, Streak Fly & Invincible 3 are an insanely good rotation. Not to mention, a lot of people really like the Infinty Run 4 and Zoom Fly 5 is a good carbon plated daily trainer. To bash their lineup right now is silly -- there's a handful of popular brands that are below what Nike has available right now but for some reason people give them a pass and take cheap shots at Nike. (and I didn't even mention the most popular running shoe in America. The Peg) I will admit, there is a lot of fluff from their current lineup, but there's some really solid rotations if you look closely
I’m actually not fully sure if this is a serious comment or not? I’m a fan of the Streakfly… but the Invincible 3 and Vomero 17 are basically the same shoe, same purpose, and make no sense in a rotation together. The Infinity RN 4 is a lifestyle shoe that you can jog in and the Zoom Fly 5 is far from a daily trainer, it is a tempo shoe and considered one of the worst ones on the market l, period.
The most popular running shoe in the US is the Brooks Ghost… by a HUGE margin (total sales, units solid, etc)… the Peg, as much as I love it is barely in the top 10….
Nike’s performance running line has fallen on hard time in the past 2-3 years due to neglect from Nike. They have been far outpaced by performance and sales by many other brands. Nike racing shoes are still top tier but even there they have lost out to a resurgent Adidas.
…
I only like Nike running shorts and t-shirt good quality and sizing for me and the shoes naahh I'll pass
I do like some of Nike’s running gear. I’ve even done a video on my favorite pieces. It’s always a solid go-to for me, epically when I’m running on a lot of Nike shoes.
Another comment, i don’t see why people want these prototypes so bad. I understand the disconnect. But even as a competitive runner myself. I don’t see WHY i would need those prototypes, even if they make me faster. These people run 13 min 5ks and world records. I can fairly say they deserve it, and they are sponsored, they have been using these protos for years, but yeah it’s just an opinion, the shoes now are doing okay and helping people
We all want what we can’t have. I find the prototype development process fascinating but generally prefer to wait for the polished consumer product release. Though I love following the prototype process and if I had a chance to test a fee I definitely would.
As for a brands sponsored top athletes… it’s a big part of their job to contribute to product development.
Too many shoes, Nike should simplify their product lines, instead of this monster. EVO1 was a breakthrough move, even game changing but it still is a very niche product. EVO's genius is simplicity, Nike is going the confusing way. Thus create a super-light version for Alphaflies at best and that's it.
Nike really needs to innovate /clean up /simplify their everyday category and give some excitement in Tempo.
And enough with those airpods everywhere, it's so boring. Time for Nike to show us something different and exciting.
I totally agree they the Evo 1, while a breakthrough, is a niche product. However, Adidas sis following up behind it with great product releases in 2024 that are not as niche and build on the momentum from the Evo1 the brand got last last year. It’s a very effective strategy and good planning on their part over the past few years.
Bro does not care about spikes 😔
I’m a road runner… I barely follow spikes. Only really when we see tech move from spikes to road shoes, mostly uppers.
That being said. Nike spikes and Nike Trail, currently are not going through and structural changes. Nor have I heard anything that they will.
I get "Puma-vibes". Boring, sporty and elite-performance-line
Ha. Very true.
Finally, the incompetents are Nike are getting fired. They should have been looong time ago.
Umong their base shoes, only vomero is a good shoe. Pegasus and Structure are crap.
Renaming famous shoes lines only gives room for confusion. In theory, plus, premium etc are a way to access the masses. So maybe I can run finally run in a Vaporfly. Or, more probably, they will not have capacity to produce all of the lines.
It’s definitely a move to make things more clear to consumers as to why pricing is the way it is. Will it make a difference? We shall see…