Our family owned part of an GA airport with a Cessna dealership in NJ years ago . And we all knew that those aircraft we ran constantly had little or no problems, but the hanger queens were a constant headache usually owned by the occasional flyer . Flying skills and mechanical devices both get “ rusty “ without use .
Hello gentlemen; Thank you for putting this podcast/you tube program. I am a private pilot, instrument rated, single engine, land with over 1000 hrs in my own a/c. 1960 Cessna Skylark. C175. Now that this is out of the way, Greg, I have been watching you on several of these a/c crash shows.(mayday, nat geo, airplane crashes, etc etc) I have always been acceptable to what you say due to your "care" that you show for honesty, completeness, professionalism. Thank you. I just found this new site, this is the 2nd one I have viewed. I feel you all have done a great job of presenting this case. I would "suggest" that when commenting on Mr. Ford landing on the taxiway, yes, this is true. However, Air Canada almost took out several airliners waiting to take off in Ksfo. There have been military c17 pilots landing on very small non tower airports by mistake. My point, is that it is more of an issue than just Mr. Ford. I feel you all could have covered this fact a little more. Thank you. Lenny
As I pause at the 3 minute mark, I would imagine there is a degradation of CFI training due to the fact that most CFIs are teaching because they have to, not because they want to. That is a threat to the GA aviation community in my opinion.
Indeed. This seems to be mainly the case in the US. Here in Europe, at least in my experience, most cfi's are very experienced pilots ( most of them active military or ex military pilots or airline pilots who teach in their spare time.
Not to mention that most CFI's of recent times are trained at the "Pilot Puppy Farms" (like ATP) where the instructors just learned to fly the previous year. The blind leading the blind. BC 26,000+ hrs
We are in the middle of an industry where quality training is critical to safety while at the same time 'instructor' is an entry level job description.
Harry been Buddy since '72. I sanded half remodel project for him in Cousin Cherie's Santa Monica home. 2-12hr days of talk w/Harry sanding told me loved planes & Acting, but only had 1-TV Series Episode past 18 mos, & aviation out-of-reach. Harry did perfect job on home, so gifted Harry Rolle Photos of job. Harry asked for Acting Portfolio photos so took them too w/Cousin laying out portfolio. I was 22, & Harry 29, so went back to Mich, while Harry haunted Holly Wood!! I left 'em alone as doing great, but had nightmares of Bad JuJu for Harry, so mailed "LOOK OUT" letter. Shortly thereafter, he had aircraft Millenium Falcon's door fall on him, & then the Golf Course crash in your video, but cha can't kill a good man watchin' for it that easily! As far as crash, ya gotta lay out edges of Santa Monica Airport, trees hit, & exact crash site using aerial photo. You'll notice Harry almost made airport grounds, Oak treetops took airspeed in last seconds, dropped 'em straight down, and Harry had crashed again. I am not in Holly Wood, retired to Lake Alfred FLA, but am witness & participant to liner stationary at altitude on approach when 180 MPH headwind turned into 180 MPH tailwind. Ahole in Hwy Pickup had just encountered that, so alerted Capt of peril w/Capt Insano drivin' saving all 156, NTSB Investigation so corrupt they Classified it, had to re-do it in '96-'97 AND CLASSIFIED THAT!! The connection with that and this video is, Local PD arrested Capt pulling OAK LIMBS from belly, for Evidence Tampering, Leaving Scene, & Joyriding plane, then dragged him in front of terrorized Passengers to FAA Office in Tower! Oak limbs....sound familiar?? That was liner w/ZERO chance of survival, but Capt wanted to live...always a good sign!! So sad, that poor bass turd gigged for getting weather info from DOT when NWS specified, & NOV '96 had true info from Witness entered on TPA Pilots' Lounge dinner napkin, when ofcl NTSB form specified. Now if Ole Harry & his Buddy Stephen couldn't turn this into an Oscar, NOBODY CAN!! A Capt about 1000X as good, talented, quick, adept, & observant as Sully savin' everybody, plus humiliated by NTSB over 4 yrs & had to investigate it himself?? C'mon.....that'd be a cinch!! And Harry, if you're somehow accidentally readin' this, just know I miss ya, and wish you all the best just like always!! Fly/Drive safe Buddy!!!
I grew up by the Santa Monica airport and played in the fields that were later turned into the golf course. One thing that was not mentioned in your discussion was the topography. At the West end of the runway there is a hillside covered with homes close the the elevation of the runway. By turning a little South he gained some maneuvering room as the airport is on a hilltop (elevation approx. 175 feet) and the golf course is lower in elevation (approximately 30 feet). Every little bit helps. I don’t believe that with a dead engine he could have stayed up high enough to get back to the airport.
I’m always reminded of Johnny Cash’s “One Piece at a Time and it Didn’t Cost me. Dime” when I watch. Y’all are One Life at a Time. And it adds up. Keep it up!
I met an investigator who was on the NTSB team for the mishap during an IA Conference in Auburn, Ca. He was a speaker at the conference and used this accident as an example. He mentioned the main jet that came loose, this many years later should have been safety wired in place. This was a common failing on the Kinner R-5. He jokingly said when the R-5 was running right, it wasn't so good. I believe he said it was a service bulletin for the jet fix. Also mentioned the reason he was injured at all was the improper shoulder harness installation, in which were not original to the type, and were not installed using the guidance from AC 43.13 so the belts crushed him into the seat during impact, injuring his back. Harness was attached to low to the airframe.
CFI here , you might be right, a few of us form a small group purchasing, say a 172 and do the training for the members for free, going beyond the usual methods. More teaching of aerodynamics etc.
To be fair, while I fully agree that a shoulder harness should be connected to a very solid part of the airframe, there are probably lots of scenarios where even a weak constraint could be better than just a lap belt. We've all flown aircraft with no shoulder harness, but I can say unless it's some kind of emergency, I won't fly in one any more. Banging your head on the instrument panel will kill you. Great analysis, gentlemen.
I would put money on the jet never got properly tightened, due to being interrupted etc. , and ran until vibration dislodged it, critically changing fuel volume, stopping engine. Things work till they don’t at times and no discernible difference. If it happened on the ground I wouldn’t think that a flight was critical if any variance was noticed. Great that Harrison was current and skilled. This video shows pilot proficiency is critical. Luckily a subpar area was available. Reminds me of Sully and the miracle on the Hudson. Great review of the mishap.
Till that jet came completely out of where it was screwed into the engine operation would be almost normal. Once it totally unscrewed then the fuel would unmetered causing a flooding condition of the engine. Ford did a great job of handling the craft once the engine quit.
SHOULDER HARNESS SEAT ATTACHMENT John is correct in his assessment of the fitting of the harness to a 'soft' aluminium seat carcass, and he is also correct in stating that aviation maintenance and fitment / repair is more complex than auto maintenance. That being said however, the commonsense of even the most capable household handyman, would have determined the seat carcass needed extra strengthening fitments to it........and been capable of adding such strengthening pieces fairly easily. The question remains, in this incident who was it that previously fitted the harnesses to the seats...? James Hennighan Yorkshire, England
Was this a "space frame>" In such builds a 4130 thick wall tube would be carefully welded as a cross piece behind the seat and then quality harness set would be wrapped around the bar. If a craftsman welded the bar it could be inspected and appro
definitely need to have a air worthy ness directive where theirs not one especially for antiques. i.e. safety wire and per say lock tite. The thing i’d ask my dad used to fly got too expensive did Mr. Ford do a run up,mag check, and a pre flight inspection nuts bolts not over look something. even though he had been flying as the faa found the fuel line vibrated loose. maybe a defect that was un known but stuff on pre flight inspection is this loose. so you fly come in after flight inspection on critical things as Donald Duck says thit happens
I didn’t see any signs of a hole in the side of the jet for safety wire. I am guessing the NTSB was just making a comment that maybe that is something that should be done for all fuel metering jets.
He didn't make the 360° turn. If you look at the aerial photo they show it looks like he went straight in to the fairway. Unless he did make the turn and didn't have enough energy to make it further and set it down. I don't know which direction the A/C was facing after the crash, that would tell us if he made the turn or not .
Why is the harness anchored to the seat??? It should have extended back to the fuselage structure. Othwise your only as secure as the seat, which is marginal at best.
As a pilot with hundreds of hrs of experience, I must say Mr. Ford needs to go back to school when it comes to an emergency. I've lost my engine 3 times and 3 different planes and each time I landed the plane and walked away, and the more important item is that the plane was in excellent shape except for the engine problem. Why did Mr. Ford hit a tree? It's because he has NO emergency experience. If you look closely, you will see in his flight path he had plenty of air speed to make a gentle left hand turn and put it down on the fairway. He froze and picked his only option. He's just lucky. As for his landing on the taxi strip? Mr. Ford knows this field well and was confused showing his age and that's all. I DO hope Mr. Ford is NOT flying anymore.
Easy to throw rocks from behind the keyboard. He made the right decision as a split second decision. The natural human reaction is to pull back on the stick or yoke when the engine lost power. He pushed forward and found a safe place to stuff the plane. It’s not easy
@@tomedgar4375 Each event he had shows a lack of discipline in the air- A taxi way instead of a runway, Dynamic roll over in the Bell 206 L and lack of altitude in a single engine over heavily populated areas.. Commercially certificated helicopter pilot here - Facts no rocks what do you fly?
@@HongyaMa Comanche driver here, I don’t know about his Bell incident and the taxiway landing was a potential fatal screw up that possibly should have had his privileges pulled, and I hope his celebrity status didn’t get him any consideration. but I am not going to criticize on this one when I don’t have any evidence to the contrary. If he ignored an indication on the run up, then you would be correct. There are many dead fixed wing pilots who pulled back on engine failure.
Our family owned part of an GA airport with a Cessna dealership in NJ years ago . And we all knew that those aircraft we ran constantly had little or no problems, but the hanger queens were a constant headache usually owned by the occasional flyer . Flying skills and mechanical devices both get “ rusty “ without use .
Hello gentlemen; Thank you for putting this podcast/you tube program. I am a private pilot, instrument rated, single engine, land with over 1000 hrs in my own a/c. 1960 Cessna Skylark. C175. Now that this is out of the way, Greg, I have been watching you on several of these a/c crash shows.(mayday, nat geo, airplane crashes, etc etc) I have always been acceptable to what you say due to your "care" that you show for honesty, completeness, professionalism. Thank you.
I just found this new site, this is the 2nd one I have viewed. I feel you all have done a great job of presenting this case. I would "suggest" that when commenting on Mr. Ford landing on the taxiway, yes, this is true. However, Air Canada almost took out several airliners waiting to take off in Ksfo. There have been military c17 pilots landing on very small non tower airports by mistake. My point, is that it is more of an issue than just Mr. Ford. I feel you all could have covered this fact a little more.
Thank you. Lenny
As I pause at the 3 minute mark, I would imagine there is a degradation of CFI training due to the fact that most CFIs are teaching because they have to, not because they want to. That is a threat to the GA aviation community in my opinion.
Indeed. This seems to be mainly the case in the US. Here in Europe, at least in my experience, most cfi's are very experienced pilots ( most of them active military or ex military pilots or airline pilots who teach in their spare time.
Not to mention that most CFI's of recent times are trained at the "Pilot Puppy Farms" (like ATP) where the instructors just learned to fly the previous year. The blind leading the blind.
BC
26,000+ hrs
We are in the middle of an industry where quality training is critical to safety while at the same time 'instructor' is an entry level job description.
Harry been Buddy since '72. I sanded half remodel project for him in Cousin Cherie's Santa Monica home. 2-12hr days of talk w/Harry sanding told me loved planes & Acting, but only had 1-TV Series Episode past 18 mos, & aviation out-of-reach. Harry did perfect job on home, so gifted Harry Rolle Photos of job. Harry asked for Acting Portfolio photos so took them too w/Cousin laying out portfolio. I was 22, & Harry 29, so went back to Mich, while Harry haunted Holly Wood!! I left 'em alone as doing great, but had nightmares of Bad JuJu for Harry, so mailed "LOOK OUT" letter. Shortly thereafter, he had aircraft Millenium Falcon's door fall on him, & then the Golf Course crash in your video, but cha can't kill a good man watchin' for it that easily! As far as crash, ya gotta lay out edges of Santa Monica Airport, trees hit, & exact crash site using aerial photo. You'll notice Harry almost made airport grounds, Oak treetops took airspeed in last seconds, dropped 'em straight down, and Harry had crashed again. I am not in Holly Wood, retired to Lake Alfred FLA, but am witness & participant to liner stationary at altitude on approach when 180 MPH headwind turned into 180 MPH tailwind. Ahole in Hwy Pickup had just encountered that, so alerted Capt of peril w/Capt Insano drivin' saving all 156, NTSB Investigation so corrupt they Classified it, had to re-do it in '96-'97 AND CLASSIFIED THAT!! The connection with that and this video is, Local PD arrested Capt pulling OAK LIMBS from belly, for Evidence Tampering, Leaving Scene, & Joyriding plane, then dragged him in front of terrorized Passengers to FAA Office in Tower! Oak limbs....sound familiar?? That was liner w/ZERO chance of survival, but Capt wanted to live...always a good sign!! So sad, that poor bass turd gigged for getting weather info from DOT when NWS specified, & NOV '96 had true info from Witness entered on TPA Pilots' Lounge dinner napkin, when ofcl NTSB form specified. Now if Ole Harry & his Buddy Stephen couldn't turn this into an Oscar, NOBODY CAN!! A Capt about 1000X as good, talented, quick, adept, & observant as Sully savin' everybody, plus humiliated by NTSB over 4 yrs & had to investigate it himself?? C'mon.....that'd be a cinch!! And Harry, if you're somehow accidentally readin' this, just know I miss ya, and wish you all the best just like always!! Fly/Drive safe Buddy!!!
This channel is a must watch for Us Rookie and DRONE pilots. Thanks Guys.
Thank you! If you haven’t already, please subscribe.
I grew up by the Santa Monica airport and played in the fields that were later turned into the golf course. One thing that was not mentioned in your discussion was the topography. At the West end of the runway there is a hillside covered with homes close the the elevation of the runway. By turning a little South he gained some maneuvering room as the airport is on a hilltop (elevation approx. 175 feet) and the golf course is lower in elevation (approximately 30 feet). Every little bit helps. I don’t believe that with a dead engine he could have stayed up high enough to get back to the airport.
I’m always reminded of Johnny Cash’s “One Piece at a Time and it Didn’t Cost me. Dime” when I watch. Y’all are One Life at a Time. And it adds up. Keep it up!
I met an investigator who was on the NTSB team for the mishap during an IA Conference in Auburn, Ca. He was a speaker at the conference and used this accident as an example. He mentioned the main jet that came loose, this many years later should have been safety wired in place. This was a common failing on the Kinner R-5. He jokingly said when the R-5 was running right, it wasn't so good. I believe he said it was a service bulletin for the jet fix. Also mentioned the reason he was injured at all was the improper shoulder harness installation, in which were not original to the type, and were not installed using the guidance from AC 43.13 so the belts crushed him into the seat during impact, injuring his back. Harness was attached to low to the airframe.
The ATC clip you played stopped with him planning on returning and landing downwind. Where is the communication when he decided to not return?
Excellent presentation, gentlemen.
CFI here , you might be right, a few of us form a small group purchasing, say a 172 and do the training for the members for free, going beyond the usual methods. More teaching of
aerodynamics etc.
To be fair, while I fully agree that a shoulder harness should be connected to a very solid part of the airframe, there are probably lots of scenarios where even a weak constraint could be better than just a lap belt. We've all flown aircraft with no shoulder harness, but I can say unless it's some kind of emergency, I won't fly in one any more. Banging your head on the instrument panel will kill you. Great analysis, gentlemen.
I'm just amazed it didn't catch fire. Thank goodness he only had a back injury.
I would put money on the jet never got properly tightened, due to being interrupted etc. , and ran until vibration dislodged it, critically changing fuel volume, stopping engine. Things work till they don’t at times and no discernible difference. If it happened on the ground I wouldn’t think that a flight was critical if any variance was noticed. Great that Harrison was current and skilled. This video shows pilot proficiency is critical. Luckily a subpar area was available. Reminds me of Sully and the miracle on the Hudson. Great review of the mishap.
Till that jet came completely out of where it was screwed into the engine operation would be almost normal. Once it totally unscrewed then the fuel would unmetered causing a flooding condition of the engine. Ford did a great job of handling the craft once the engine quit.
In my short 72 years on this earth, I have found it is easy to speculate. But until it happens to you, You just don't know!
SHOULDER HARNESS SEAT ATTACHMENT
John is correct in his assessment of the fitting of the harness to a 'soft' aluminium seat carcass, and he is also correct in stating that aviation maintenance and fitment / repair is more complex than auto maintenance.
That being said however, the commonsense of even the most capable household handyman, would have determined the seat carcass needed extra strengthening fitments to it........and been capable of adding such strengthening pieces fairly easily.
The question remains, in this incident who was it that previously fitted the harnesses to the seats...?
James Hennighan
Yorkshire, England
Was this a "space frame>" In such builds a 4130 thick wall tube would be carefully welded as a cross piece behind the seat and then quality harness set would be wrapped around the bar. If a craftsman welded the bar it could be inspected and appro
Wow...did you see the varnish of old fuel on the pic of that carb jet?? Man that thing was dirty!
As an A&P/IA we don't receive information about these findings and getting us to look out for these kind of problems....
definitely need to have a air worthy ness directive where theirs not one especially for antiques. i.e. safety wire and per say lock tite. The thing i’d ask my dad used to fly got too expensive did Mr. Ford do a run up,mag check, and a pre flight inspection nuts bolts not over look something. even though he had been flying as the faa found the fuel line vibrated loose. maybe a defect that was un known but stuff on pre flight inspection is this loose. so you fly come in after flight inspection on critical things as Donald Duck says thit happens
I didn’t see any signs of a hole in the side of the jet for safety wire. I am guessing the NTSB was just making a comment that maybe that is something that should be done for all fuel metering jets.
Harrison handled the crash just like Indiana Jones would have.
Was short round driving ?
Pretty cool that he could complete the 180 safely :) Must have been a hardcore bitch to manage the remaining energy's intense letdown in time.
He didn't make the 360° turn. If you look at the aerial photo they show it looks like he went straight in to the fairway. Unless he did make the turn and didn't have enough energy to make it further and set it down. I don't know which direction the A/C was facing after the crash, that would tell us if he made the turn or not .
Your arm keeps appearing and disappearing that could be a problem if flying. Only green screen.
Imagine having three people on your podcast and having only one of them doing 95% of the talking.
C’mon Greg give others a chance, geez.
Why is the harness anchored to the seat??? It should have extended back to the fuselage structure. Othwise your only as secure as the seat, which is marginal at best.
When the engine stops the insurance company owns the plane.
Tell Harrison he should stick with his millennium falcon lol
As a pilot with hundreds of hrs of experience, I must say Mr. Ford needs to go back to school when it comes to an emergency. I've lost my engine 3 times and 3 different planes and each time I landed the plane and walked away, and the more important item is that the plane was in excellent shape except for the engine problem. Why did Mr. Ford hit a tree? It's because he has NO emergency experience. If you look closely, you will see in his flight path he had plenty of air speed to make a gentle left hand turn and put it down on the fairway. He froze and picked his only option. He's just lucky. As for his landing on the taxi strip? Mr. Ford knows this field well and was confused showing his age and that's all. I DO hope Mr. Ford is NOT flying anymore.
Didn't he have a beaver he messed up too hf
After his Bell 206 L and his landing on a taxiway and this little event, Skill? Really? Skill only after a judgement slips.
Easy to throw rocks from behind the keyboard. He made the right decision as a split second decision. The natural human reaction is to pull back on the stick or yoke when the engine lost power. He pushed forward and found a safe place to stuff the plane. It’s not easy
@@tomedgar4375 Each event he had shows a lack of discipline in the air- A taxi way instead of a runway, Dynamic roll over in the Bell 206 L and lack of altitude in a single engine over heavily populated areas..
Commercially certificated helicopter pilot here - Facts no rocks what do you fly?
@@HongyaMa
Comanche driver here, I don’t know about his Bell incident and the taxiway landing was a potential fatal screw up that possibly should have had his privileges pulled, and I hope his celebrity status didn’t get him any consideration. but I am not going to criticize on this one when I don’t have any evidence to the contrary. If he ignored an indication on the run up, then you would be correct. There are many dead fixed wing pilots who pulled back on engine failure.
@@tomedgar4375 True true
So then there was the taxiway incident ...
AQP
This man is a danger to anyone and everyone. He needs to surrender his pilot's license.
Harrison handled the crash just like Indiana Jones would have.