Accident Case Study: Into Thin Air
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- Опубліковано 9 гру 2021
- On July 3, 2021, two New York-based pilots prepare to depart Aspen, Colorado in a Beechcraft Bonanza G36. One of the pilots has recently purchased the Bonanza in California, and the pair are flying it back to the East Coast.
In order to depart Aspen, the two flatland pilots will have to contend with high density altitude - and the reduction in aircraft performance that comes with it.
Join the Air Safety Institute as we follow the Bonanza’s ill-fated flight in the Rocky Mountains.
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I'd like to take a second to acknowledge the narrator for this series. He has the perfect, gentle voice inflection for these.
Excellent post and observation-
I have heard this guy on PBS documentaries.
He’s amazing, this whole series is top-notch and professionally done.
I came here to say the same. Never judgmental, just educational.
@@nancykaufmann3993 Kindly, disagree. It is judgmental. But not demeaning.
There but the grace of God go I.
This video just came out at an eerily coincidental time for me. My dad and I are looking at buying a Bonanza out in California and flying it home to the east coast using a safety pilot. I think I might pass until I have some more mountain flying training.
Edit/update: I've decided to go ahead with the purchase. Will be flying south around the mountains.
Edit/update 2: I've done it! Safely home in Virginia. Absolutely loved the flight.
Just go farther south and pass thru new Mexico... Might take an extra day.
Stay safe and enjoy your new plane
You can also fly west to Grand Junction CO, then north to the west of the Rockies up to wyoming, and then across WY and SD. flatter land to contend with. Did that in a C177RG without much issue.
definitely the best route in a non turbo single, especially in the winter. Its a beautiful and pleasant route, with a heckuva lot more airports and off airport options available. Be safe, spend the extra time & fuel
South, that is
The pilot, Dr. Cohen was a well known dentist from Manhattan, who helped with rescue efforts during 9/11 and went to Haiti to help with a medical hospital’s efforts after the 2010 earthquake. May he and his friend rest in peace.
Damn spoiler alert
Yours is the top comment, i can't avoid seeing it on my 1440p monitor lmao
@@aakksshhaayy this series is a spoiler alert. Sobering.
Very sad. RIP
Well though this is extremely sad atleast now I know where he is now!🙏
As FS2020 is used to represent this flight visually, I thought it might be interesting to fly the same route in the same simulated conditions as these poor guys faced. 77 deg F and high humidity, scattered clouds in a Piper Arrow III. Nearest plane I could find to the G36. Although there is a G36 in the sim I think it might be a more powerful variant. Anyway, I took off from Aspen (KASE) and flew an ascending circuit around the field for two loops and did achieve just over 10,000ft. Set off on the same route the pilots took. After about 19mins of flying, I found myself in an ascending valley and, although I hate to admit it, despite being forewarned, I could not find a way of aborting, as my plane was at about 75kts airspeed, barely able to climb at all, with the ground getting too close to for comfort. I eventually stalled a wing whilst trying to turn at too low an airspeed and crashed.
I made a second attempt except this time I performed four loops of Aspen and managed to limp up to 11,200ft before setting off East. Despite some very hairy moments and a few branches in the undercarriage (not literally as UC was retracted), this time I made it and carried on my flight to Colorado springs.
I am only a sim pilot from the UK but with 465 hours in sim. I have learned a fascinating lesson about Density Altitude. My Piper Arrow was barely able to climb at all despite very careful mixture management. Was surprised tbh, just how accurately the sim reproduced these conditions. Really felt how desperate those guys must have been when they realised they had no way out.
Sad story.
As someone who learned to fly in the mountains, a heavy airplane without enough power can be a real nightmare. You have to assume when going up a valley that you will not be capable of climbing at all. I flew a C172N with 180 hp and an XP with 220hp, and at 12,500 feet your climb rate is abysmal. A G36 weighs more than a C172's max gross weight empty. A turbocharger is not a requirement, but without one you cannot afford to try and outclimb terrain.
Same here. I love Aspen in FS 2020, thrilling enough in higher performance craft. Tried that same pass/route long back with the Carenado Mooney, loaded out. Same result. At the beginning of the video I was astounded and even horrified to see the choice of Aspen as an enroute fuel stop.
Decades back I grew to be a little hesitant even to go into Page in my 1958 J35 and just me aboard. My dad wisely stayed to a more southern route with his 235 Turbo, the few times he came out to Orange County. Not many places to go in an emergency and a lot of high country. In retrospect I was unnecessarily rolling the dice for the more scenery. The desire for a more direct path to NY out of Napa must have been strong, but Aspen? That choice should have been out of the question.
Even FS can impart a taste of growing desperate fear as you begin to realize that you are just not going to get turned around and out again. I can only imagine the feelings in that Bonanza cockpit. May God bless.
@@garysmith5256 Not to mention fuel is damn expensive in aspen, too.
"mixture" I guess it'll be another 50 years before fuel injection and EMS reach the skies !
The sim flight would be cool to see. Do you upload any videos? What are you using to do the simulation?
"We're gonna make that decision once we takeoff and see what's going on" illustrates how woefully unprepared the pilots were of the dangers lurking in the mountains. Independence Pass is not for the faint at heart, but the pass they actually followed is not even on the aeronautical charts.
Yes precisely, we knew they were in trouble when we heard that quote.
"We're gonna make that decision once we takeoff and see what's going on"
- Yeah, my response upon hearing that was: "Pardon?" Later he said to the controller he was "Unfamiliar With The Area". Shouldn't that have been the reddest of red flags, not to proceed? Coupled with an unfamiliar plane they had only just purchased. The pilots could not have set up the "accident" any better if they tried.
As soon as they casually changed to VFR I knew they were done… get thereitis
Yeah "we'll figure it out when we get there" should have been a red flag for ATC, but honestly, I feel like ATC was more than descriptive in this situation. On multiple occasions he made it a point to correct the pilot and give directional and descriptive explanations about flight paths.
Yeah I couldn't help but cringe when I heard him say that. This clearly isn't an area to be guessing and trying to improvise.
The final minutes must have been agonizing; to be in full control of the plane but all valid navigational options exhausted and nothing to do but contemplate the oncoming terrain. What a sad end.
At least we can learn from the lesson.
I think... He (or she) after this left turn and seeing incoming terrain should do right turn - in this moment, they have more room to (right) turn. I dont see any other options to save this situation.
@@norbert.kiszka there was no options to save it at that point.
@@sammmmysorookaaa1413 some maneuvers can be tested in flight simulators. But its easy to sit and do things in simulator. Even in simulator You can freak out and crash - I know something about it (crashed two times because of it).
@@norbert.kiszka Mountain valleys aren’t level, the terrain would have been climbing and a right turn would have likely just brought more rising terrain. That’s why you always fly on side of a valley in the mountains, that and the fact that the middle of a mountain valley is usually turbulent as hell.
I disagree. Once you've reached the "I gonna crash" realization you fly the plane. Have your copilot move his seat full-aft. Put cushions on the instrument panel. Ensure the restraints are tight. Have the copilot trigger the ELT and notify ATC that you're crashing. Configure your plane for minimum speed flight. Target the softest thing you can find before you run out of airspeed & control.
Once again a great video for all pilots to watch. A good pilot is always learning!
And asking questions from the Locals. Hell! Some jet pilots have a problem with that airport. We all take risks, but these guys loaded the deck and paid the price. Why Aspen? I’ve been there many times, it’s a small quiet town . Better during ski season . RIP
I think the lesson here is respect mountain ranges and know your elevations. Plus never take a non turbo through mountain ranges.
@@israelarana5283 that’s a little conservative. There are many many people who safely fly non-turbocharged aircraft in the Rockies and other mountains every day. It just takes some knowledge and airmanship.
@@kurtisf3366 and some of them die
@@steviesevieria1868 As do some who fly turbocharged piston aircraft and turbine powered aircraft. What’s your point? Saying to never take a non turbo aircraft into the mountains is like saying to never take a non 4 wheel drive vehicle onto a gravel road.
I hope the producers of "Accident Case Studies" know how very powerful these videos are, as opposed to reading about the events in a filed report. As previous comments have pointed out, the narrator plays a big part in this.
Kk
7000 hour mountain cargo pilot here. If you ever get into a canyon turn situation what you do is the opposite of what you’d think. Best option is drop your flaps. Drop your gear. Slow down as slow as you can and make the turn. The rate of turn when you are slow is much higher. Slow down and you’d be surprised how fast you can get it around.
« Slow down »
But at high altitude-density, you need to have water under the keel.
I note your tip for later study.
I was struck by the comment “recent purchase of the B-36” and “five hour and twenty minute flight into Aspen.” How well did this pilot know his airplane? How tired can you be after a five hour flight, in hot afternoon turbulence, to boot? Who flies over mountains into Aspen with a half-hour reserve? Who takes off from a 10,000’ density altitude airport with a full load of fuel? Who among us knows their blood/oxygen saturation levels and our flying judgement at 8, 9, 10,000 or higher feet? Late in the day for a single-engine flight over more mountains with one engine in the twilight and on into the night with no forced landing sites in sight? Who figures out their route of flight after they are airborne?
Someone said it was a Dr. of some sort, you know how those and Bonanzas mix.
Perfectly summed up!
WHY VAIL..........hit me right away. And I don't even fly. The moment the narrator stated the planes' engine was "naturally aspirated" (diesel guy here) AND no oxygen, I'm incredulous.
It’s very strange to me the chances people take with aviation
@@jetpilot3714 The conflict between Icarus and Daedalus is as old as humanity. It’s found in the phrase, “There are bold pilots and there are old pilots, but there are no ‘old, bold pilots.’”
I will honor these men by doing my best to learn from their mistakes.
Astute comment, my friend.
“We must learn from the mistakes of others, since we can’t possibly live long enough to make them all ourselves”
In addition to the high DA, Aspen airport is notoriously unforgiving. Too bad they hadn't talked with any local pilots about this before taking off. This is an excellent review for those of us who have been away from light piston aircraft for many years.
With the GV and 7X type ratings, that "safety pilot" surely knows about Aspen.
Makes one wonder what they actually did during their 4 hrs on the ground at Aspen. Shoulda grabbed a hotel, talked to some pilots familiar w the locale, & analyzed the heck outta their nav charts & perf data
@@dingodango1 I agree he's likely been there. But those airplanes face different challenges at that airport, than a naturally aspirated 6 seat piston.
Night and day in high performance jets. Especially that 7X which was made with airports like this in mind.
I’ve done a V1 cut out of Aspen in the sim and I think I disappointed the sim instructor because I made it seem effortless.
Rather than heading left for independence.. I turned right over the ski hills to give myself more track miles before eventually arcing around for that valley.
All those years flying piston singles in high DA in the mountains paid off.
Landed at PITKIN County once. That airport is in what I call a "fish bowl", quite a few step downs to get into it because of the mountains around it.
The narrator in these is excellent, just wanted to say.
The first link in this accident chain was choosing Aspen for their fuel stop. The scenery on their chosen route is of course spectacular, but a more prudent choice would be a route across Wyoming paralleling I-80, which would have lower terrain to cross and a choice of airports at much lower elevations than Aspen. They cranked the risk factor up pretty high as soon as they left Napa with KASE programmed into the G1000.
I was thinking the same thing as soon as the announcer said they did not have a turbo. They had no business going through Aspen with a new plane they are unfamiliar with, with only East coast experience, without oxygen, and without a turbo. They may have done the trip with this plane if they had plenty of experience, and extensive briefing on mountain flying. They never should have chosen that path, rather flown through NM.
first thing I thought
Husband and I go to Aspen every few years. We go in the summer and fly into Denver and rent an SUV for the remainder of the trip. I refuse to fly into Aspen with any pilot. Maybe I'm too wary but getting to play in a snowfall at Independence Pass in June makes the drive worth it :)
Aspen's airport is ranked as one of the most dangerous in North America...only for the most experienced of pilots in mountainous regions. Thank goodness these two did not have wives and/or children with them.
RIP to the pilots.
@@fumblebunny1993 Not even commercially or with a turbine jet engine? :D
@@rkan2 No and no :) I cannot predict weather and that can change fast over the mountains. I fly a lot and Aspen is the only airport I've ever felt this way about. I can't rely on commercial pilot experience either. Look at Air Florida flight 90.
I'm just following my intuition on this one.
Merry Christmas, rkan2!
Very interesting watching this from West Aus where the land is so flat. Never even thought about flying to one side of a valley.
You should have a gander at Mt Beauty airfield in Vic it's smack bang in the middle of one.
Same here
I even thought scraping the side would offer a better chance of benefitting from the ground effect - but that may be spoiled by trees !
Very flat except for the hills surrounding Perth.
@@pixibelle3282 they are so tiny in comparison.
Great job putting this out in a timely fashion while focusing in part on the way even safety-conscious pilots might get lured into a trap. Also a great job of using technology to better illustrate the story without getting in the way of the story. Finally, great job of including the point near the end about the overall rising terrain while many pilots focus on the ridgeline. It reminds pilots to think about the viability of potential Plan B options and not just think about whether Plan A will work. Thanks AOPA ASI.
This video has firmly cemented in my mind that I'm not even going to attempt any mountain flying without an experienced local pilot in the plane with me. I'm one of those east coasters who lives on and flies over flat land.
Thank you for publishing this. I wish flight schools would incorporate this video when discussing density altitude.
Just buy a turbocharged or turbo normalized aircraft capable of flying at least 2000ft above the ridges. You can find a Bonanza that is quite literally 15% of the cost of this G36 that can cross the Rockies with relative ease.
Mountain flying is dead simple: just fly over them and at an altitude with enough margin to handle wave. Pilots who try crossing the Rockies via a single engine and through the passes in the summer are just asking to die.
I love the perfect balance this series always strikes, it’s just as captivating and informative to a pilot as it is to an aviation layperson. My only complaint is there isn’t nearly enough episodes to watch!
Tragically, pilots and passengers are just dying to make more episodes.
@@naturalverities Haha, I ah… see what you did there.
@@naturalverities😁😶🤔 😱🥶
Ikr I watched them all in one day
@@naturalverities clever
Babe wake up, new Air Safety Institute video dropped
High density altitude wasn't the problem, taking off with no plan is the problem.
Being stupid was the problem
@@braininavatnow9197 hardly stupid just naivety, easy to judge sat on the ground typing on a keyboard
I think it's a chain of factors. If they had done enough planning to go up Independence Pass OR if they had done one more circuit in the climb OR if they had waited until morning when the air is cooler, things might have ended differently.
We're all assuming (even the video) that they declined 16,000 feet because they didn't have oxygen on board. If that's the case, then how did they think they were going to get cleared for the SID that required them to climb to 16,000? If the reason they declined 16,000 feet was that they didn't think the plane could make the climb, it makes it an even more egregious error to just go VFR in the opposite direction from where the SID they had briefed would have taken them.
No matter how you fix it up, the chain of errors that led to two deaths should have been broken in the planning stage, or at the very latest by re-planning when the SID wasn't going to work and taking the time to figure out a safe VFR route.
The fact that they attempted to file an IFR flight plan out of Aspen with a normally aspirated airplane suggests they didn't do enough planning. I've flown there before, and I have dozens of hours in the mountains, but I wouldn't attempt Aspen without another experienced mountain pilot with me.
I think this is a trap that would likely claim a lot of pilots in their situation. Good lesson to learn
I did a similar thing once in my career, but we survived. I took off from a 1,249’ elevation airport (itself in a valley within mountainous terrain) in a Cessna 172 together with three college friends (heavy but not over gross weight). It was a short flight over the mountains surrounding us to an airport located in another valley on the other side just 25 miles away. After takeoff I was climbing at Vy and turned left to cross a ridge immediately in front of us. We might have orbited over the departure airport to gain altitude I don’t remember now it has been many decades. Being a recently certified CFI I should have had a better picture of what was happening. And just as the announcer in this AOPA video says the terrain below us was rapidly rising. I knew pulling back on the yoke to climb steeper wasn’t going to solve my problem. I remember being uncomfortably low as we crossed the ridge, probably less than 200’. But we did make it over the ridge. The weather was beautiful and clear, I don’t remember any significant wind. It was a great day to go flying with friends. At any time coming up to the low spot on the ridge I simply could have broken it off and turned either way to get over lower terrain and continue climbing to gain altitude and try again. Yet, I pressed on. Looking back on that flight I shudder. Inexperience led to me putting all of us in a dangerous position. I wasn’t feeling any pressure. I just didn’t understand what was really happening-and I should have. I'm sorry for their loss...........
Thanks for sharing!
It's awesome for you to share. People will blame the dead. But we are looking at it with a perfect picture. Im a mountain climber. Its really dangerous. Its easy to say the mistake happened here or here, its another to understand the mistakes are easy to see after theyve happened. Seeing it from a monday morning quarterback.
One morning I was in the Himalayas and I should not have gone, but I did. I knew the risks. I went anyway and I was lucky. It was a nightmare and if the weather had turned Id be dead. Humans are crazy, the same reason we survive and almost die is the same reason we are incredible.
Luckily enough you lived to learn. Glad you're okay.
@@johncrane3858 It has nothing to do with ego or blaming anyone. It has to do with warning other pilots not to make these same mistakes. There is someone to blame here, and it's always the pilot. That attitude will save the life of the next pilot who faces this. If you've got a hobby where mistakes can kill you, it pays to study the mistakes of others. That's the whole point of NTSB investigations. It's not to necessarily "blame" people but to pinpoint the cause of the crash so someone else doesn't crash for the same reason.
I narrowly escaped a density altitude situation in the mountains shortly after getting my PPL. It’s a lesson you never forget!
Glad to hear you’re ok!
This is eary. Just minutes before this crash, I was flying over Marshal Pass (maximum elevation, 10,800 MSL, just 50 miles to the south of where this accident happened) with my family, en route from Grand Junction to Colorado Springs in a Cessna 172. I remember how hot it was that day, and how much it forced me to attend to the climb rate, and ensure I'd reached a safe altitude before heading for the pass. Combining that experience with this video truly makes the importance of density altitude calculations a lesson I will not forget for as long as I fly. Thank you for making this video.
Can I just say, the music adds so much to this. The sense of dread and regret, sorrow and anguish from those few short measures is incredible.
This is what just about did me in. Flying a rental 172 over the Smokies and just crossed the ridge going from wayward to leeward. Flying straight and level 3000 feet AGL and my altimeter started going down. So I increased power and the sink rate increased. At one point I was skimming tree tops following the contours. Only by deploying half flaps and going full power was I able to claw my way back up. Scariest flight of my career
Thanks for sharing!
Not a pilot, just an enroute air traffic controller who also works a very very large "approach control" sector who enjoys learning what pilots are frequently up against. This was very enlightening for me, even with many years experience. Great video, and I have no doubt they save many lives. Thank you.
I took a mountain flying seminar + check prior to flying in the mountains. Extremely helpful and many of the errors they made during the flight would have not been made. Would recommend something similar to that, even just going up with someone experienced in mountain flying to get to teach you the basics. So many small errors that people don't even think of can be fatal in the mountains, but just being aware of them can help you avoid them entirely with minimal effort.
You were open to the idea that you might not know enough, but others aren't as wise, humble or both.
Other option…
Just fly around the mountainous areas to the extent practicable.
Especially in July.
@@conorlauren not feasible for trips starting and ending in the mountains, and it's rare that there is a mountain range so small you can fly around.
@@marcuswilson3375
Understood to some extent.
I just planned a flight and the sectional shows some significantly lower altitudes. Heading up through Wyoming gives less altitude to clear the terrain.
It’s kinda like going to the moon. You can avoid the Van Allen radiation belts. But you can go through the thinnest part and minimize exposure.
It’s just the thought to me, “let’s refuel in Aspen in July and then try to clear the Rockies flying east.” That is when we might want to say, “that just sounds like suicide.”
Again, a quick gander at the sectional shows lower altitudes. Casper is even lower the whole way.
@@conorlauren Sure, but again there are many flights were the destination/departure are in mountainous terrain because that's simply what the pilot wants to do. If the pilots had proper mountain training, this flight wouldn't have been dangerous at all because mountain flying only really only dangerous when the pilot isn't trained with the risks. Perhaps they also wanted to visit Aspen specifically like that's still up to them, like if I'm going on a trip for fun I wouldn't mind taking a bit longer to sightsee as long as it isn't dangerous, and Aspen isn't an inherently dangerous airport as long as the pilots know how to fly the environment in which it is in.
The solution would just to get mountain training prior to any flights that have a possibility of ending up in mountains, whether it be flying over or around, because even though you might not encounter mountains the entire flight, if something happened and diverting became necessary, you might end up at a mountain airport whether you are prepared for it or not.
I'm so glad these 'Accident Case Study' videos are back. I find them extremely fascinating. The addition of FS2020 footage is very enjoyable. Well done!
Holy cow I didn't even know altitude worked like this. I thought every plane was capable enough of climbing over mountains here (colorado) it's weird to think a plane can even be boxed in by mountains. Also I didn't know Aspen had an airport. This is very interesting. Thank you!
Glad to see AOPA back on what they have done best with this channel. Points well made. Yes, DA. But you can just as easily get into a terrain trap at low DA if you fly up a valley you cannot turn about in. In that case there is no contingency, when common sense alone should tell you to always have an ‘out’.
Yup. The first fatal Icon A5 crash was at a lake with an elevation of 450 feet.
Yup.
I can't get into their heads but being from the East, I CAN say that Pilots are simply accustomed to flying around any high terrain and by "high" I also mean; not where DA becomes critical.
I agree with the point about the terrain trap. The fact that they took off without a clear idea of where they were going seems to be the pivotal moment here. When they realized they couldn't do their assigned IFR route, they should have reevaluated the situation and figured out exactly what they were going to do, and how they were going to do it. But hindsight is 20/20, I guess.
In a plane like that you gotta just take the southern route through Texas. Austin is just as fun of a stop as Aspen
Phoenix-Winslow-Tucumcari-Amarillo works, too.
Best aviation channel on UA-cam! Thanks again!
This is a great video. I hiked Midway Pass from Independence Pass 2 days after this crash in order to find the wreckage. Not sure where they got their information on the exact whereabouts of this crash but thy are correct. It was a TERRIBLE time to leave Aspen and were extremely ignorant of the height and respect Colorado mountains require. The only error I see in this video is winds were not 15 knots from the East.....prevailing is almost always from the west...which didn't help them. GA usually only flies for a couple hours in the morning mid-Summer here in the Rockies. Even if these guys would have made it over Midway Pass, their flight would have been extremely turbulent and uncomfortable. RIP and kudos to ASI/AOPA for this video.
I agree..I'm usually back on the ground by noon during the summer. I don't have a DA issue in the RV-8, it's just the afternoon T-storms and turbulence pick up dramatically after that.
This info will save lives.
That is our hope and why we produce them. Thank you for the feedback and support!
@@richardmcspadden9189 How are there month-old comments on this video? Are they released to Patreon supporters first?
@@tunatuna6723 yes. We released this video behind an AOPA member gate first, about 6 weeks ago, in order to give the people that support us first access. Thanks for asking.
@@richardmcspadden9189 Question for you, sir. After a series of accidents and close-calls at my home airport of Angel Fire, NM (KAXX - field elevation 8,380'), I did a safety briefing video that is here: ua-cam.com/video/AmrAX7tSvvQ/v-deo.html . I would love to see AOPA use their resources to develop some of these kinds of safety videos with the production quality that you guys always do. I have sent in a couple of emails over the years about this but never heard anything back. Any chance you could forward the suggestion to the right people? I would love to see us be able to provide briefings proactively than case-studies after accidents like these. Thanks sir!
Can you imagine the drop in both of their stomachs when they made the grim realization that it was too late to make the turn and reverse course? 4:01 tells the whole story - "Unfamiliar with the area...." This was what sealed their fate, sadly. These videos are extremely educational and enlightening. I'm not a pilot, but in recent years, I've been "flying" along with Citation Max, Premier 1 Driver, etc and loving learning about the process of flying. RIP to both of these friends.
Watching this video gave me the chills. I'm not a pilot, but at an earlier time in my life I travelled frequently as a passenger on commercial airlines throughout the West and Southwest US. I love flight, and especially enjoy the exhilarating experience of takeoffs and landings. But one place always gave me white knuckles on takeoffs: Albuquerque, NM. With the runway at a mile high, the aircraft needed literally every foot of runway to become airborne. I remember looking out the window, my hands gripping the armrests as tightly as I could in an upward motion, and pushing my body up against my seatbelt, trying to help give the plane the lift it needed! And every time, the runway disappeared at the same instant the plane finally got lift.
And the turbulence over the Sandia mountains is a whole 'nother story!
Thanks and appreciation to all you commercial pilots and air traffic controllers out there.
Another excellent video. Let’s learn with accidents so we don’t get ourselves into one. All pilots have one kind of accident that would happen if he keeps his flying practices, we must identify what’s ours.
All pilots are stupid? How can you possibly know this? Maybe there is one pilot out there who does everything safely all the time with allowances for errors. In every case on this channel the pilots were grossly incompetent and got the expected outcome.
@@braininavatnow9197 - that’s a little harsh. Plenty of able and intelligent pilots have crashed over the years.
@@braininavatnow9197 that’s the kind of mentality that kills in aviation… it’s so easy to look backwards and think how people were “stupid”… I bet that, if you are even a pilot, you never made a mistake, or misjudged something, or missed a detail, a real topgun that never makes mistakes… let’s just hope you won’t be on a video like this, so other arrogant pilot can make a comment like that.
@@randomschmo5778 Dale Snodgrass
@@braininavatnow9197 It's a piece of machinery. It CAN deliver a circumstance that can befuddle the best pilot. You CAN familiarize yourself with ALL known circumstances.
BUT
The goddam thing WILL come up with one more.
Only thing missing in this accident chain is they had changed the plan, and they didn’t have a plan before taking off. Those are red flags too.
And the first one should have been, the decision to fly across the Rockies at Colorado. Would have been better to pick lower, more forgiving terrain, ie north along I-80 or south through New Mexico.
@@toldt The only problem with flying South through New Mexico is that while people equate "New Mexico to Desert", you really have to go pretty far south to get to the lower altitudes. Angel Fire Airport (KAXX) has a field elevation of 8,380 feet...which is higher than Aspen. Santa Fe is 6,349', but often has warmer temperatures so density altitude can be just as high there. You are correct about going through New Mexico, but the flight path would need to be far enough south to get over the Sangre de Cristo mountains that run down to Santa Fe.
Just recently discovered this channel. The best GA accident reviews I've ever seen. A+.
Yes!!! New accident case study. One of my fave series on all of YT.
Indirectly being excited that an accident happened is kinda messed up, dude.
Me too! My other top series are:
- USCSB (US Chemical Safety Board, by far my number 1, it’s so good over 150 people are demanding merch 🤣 I’m not even kidding)
- MrBallen (best storyteller covering “the strange, dark, and mysterious”)
- Mini Air Crash Investigations (best aviation accident and near-accident channel with biweekly uploads)
@@orijimi He said he’s excited about the accident _case study_ - obviously he’s not some sociopath happy to see people die and it’s absurd for you to assume otherwise. Or what are you doing here watching it in the first 20 minutes after it’s published, hmm? You’ve got notifications on and clicked it just as fast as he did.
@@Syclone0044 I don't have notifications for this channel turned on. It was just on my homescreen and I was bored, dream of getting a pilot's license one day, and take the tragic lessons of these videos to heart. I'm never happy to see more of these videos. It would be easier if there stopped being lessons to learn and that real lives hadn't had to serve as demonstration.
If you like these styles of videos, check out YT Channel " USCSB "
It's not aviation related but informative videos about chemical plant disasters.
These usually always have a bad ending, but I absolutely love these videos! They are extremely informative and more interesting to watch than anything on tv. As much as I enjoy these videos, Rest In Peace to the ones that have lost their lives.
Took off from Flagstaff recently--basically last August. I have a 1969 Bo with a 470k (fun fact: the 1969 E33 Bonanza is the only year "Bonanza" is stamped on the side for a straight tail 33-renamed Debonair the next year). It struggled. And that plane has a strong engine that climbs well at altitude. But that day, with DA around 10k feet, you could really feel it. I took off with tanks half full (or half empty for you pessimists, lol) and flew it to Lake Havasu to re-fuel. You really can't mess with DA and high altitude flying around terrain can be a big deal. I've flown my sons to hockey tournaments all over the states in that plane, but I steer clear of Colorado with that plane. Our next plane is going to be a pressurized turbo twin, so we'll just use that one.
Accident case study finally returns!
Absolutely boggles the mind. The decision to go into and out of Aspen in a normally-aspirated GA piston single without taking it extremely seriously is questionable from the start. Deciding while holding short that you're just going to wing it VFR and ask the tower while airborne which way you should go is simply astounding. These guys were dead before they ever left the ground. I just don't get it.
I think it was 5th of Jack Danials that got them...If they had just stopped after smoking the weed they would have been okay.
I have to agree. I feel a novice pilot would take much more precaution while attempting this. Maybe that’s the problem….the more you “think” you know, the less you truly know.
@@braininavatnow9197 I get the feeling they were intending to be in the other pass.
Same here. I would have been scared as hell knowing I still hadn't cleared the mountain top altitude after leaving the airport area. I would've circled and circled and circled until absolutely sure of my altitude. This stuff is so scary.
@@joshuahudson2170 Agree. It's crazy to intentionally go up Hunter Creek Valley, even if you clear the pass, only to find yourself back in Roaring Fork Valley en route to Independence Pass. Had they stayed in Roaring Fork Valley, they would have had an additional 5 or so miles in which to gain the additional 300 feet or so of elevation required to top Independence Pass at 12.1k feet.
Terrain climbs always faster as an GA airplane can climb. We in Switzerland 🇨🇭 learn, that you have to cross the Mountain with minimum 1000ft above the ridges and than in a slid decent attitude, with a 45 degree heading towards the ridges, to be always prepared to do a turn back in The Valley. High DA makes this not easer …. Thanks for the video… Rest In Peace buddy’s 👏🏻
Please Keep doing these videos ASI. I can't recommend them enough for my students.
About 30 years ago I departed RWY 33 KASE eastbound via Independence Pass in my 200 HP Turbo Arrow with reasonable safety margins. The following factors were in my favor.
1. I was familiar with the area, and my aircraft.
2. Turbocharged engine and oxygen on board.
3. Lightly loaded.
4. Good daytime VFR.
5. Reasonable density altitude.
6. Wind from the west.
7. Alone, no distractions, rested, and no "get-there-itis".
8. Flew down valley (to the NW) away from Aspen and Independence Pass to gain altitude before turning 180° toward IP. Coordinated with Aspen tower. No inbound traffic.
9. Flew the NE side of the valley toward IP for lift and plenty of room to turn 180° if necessary.
About 25 years ago I was landing RWY 15 KASE in the same aircraft. I executed a go-around over the field and circled Aspen (with very little vertical and horizontal clearance) for landing RWY 33. Note: departures from RWY 15 are not permitted w/o special written permission due to terrain (2% upslope toward a box canyon). The following factors contributed to my decision to go-around, or were not in my favor for gaining altitude during the go-around.
1. Strong gusty wind from the west.
2. Wind shear on short final and turbulence over the runway.
3. Substantial crosswind and tailwind components.
4. High density altitude.
I had a reasonable amount of mountain training and mountain flying prior to flying into and out of Aspen, but wish I could also have had the high-quality simulator time that's available today. Even playing around with Google Earth could help. Going missed approach past the MAP and decisions whether to force a landing or to execute a go-around with limited or unknown options happen a lot quicker than getting boxed in tight on the way to Independence Pass.
Guys, your videos are fantastic, but please upload your content more often , this is the first video you made in 7 months.
That's a long wait for us who want to learn more.
Thanks.
I can't remember where exactly, but I always wanted to fly Route 66, so my family and I flew vfr on a 152 from Chicago Midway to Santa Barbara Reginal on a vacation. Never had flown in the west before. The entire trip was beautiful until we hit west New Mexico I believe. There was four souls on board plus luggage so I could never fill the tanks completely but I would stretch it too about 97% MTOW. My first mountain range was about 10,000 agl with low vis at sunset, I turned around and called it a night.
Can't get enough of these videos. Thank you!
The narrator's voice always gives me chills. He never has good news LOL
This is so immaculately well produced, both from the way the content is presented but from the quality of the visual production itself. Superb.
As a NY pilot, the first time I flew along the grand canyon was absolutely mind-opening in terms of DA, having never encountered those altitudes before in my flying. Unfortunately, I think the narrator's point that DA is a concept that we all learn but is usually hard to truly understand until you experience it is probably very true. Took every precaution on my flight and did everything rigorously by the book, but despite fully expecting it even I was a bit shocked by just how much worse the plane's performance was than what I was "used to", beginning from the length of the take-off roll onwards. Many thanks for the AOPA for providing such a fantastic resource to us all.
Although not a pilot, it seems like a turbo-charged engine is crucially important when flying in higher terrain.
I earned my PPL in the thick air of Southern California where the biggest challenges were busy airspace and a lot of radio work. I moved to the Colorado Rocky Mountains about 7 years ago, trading the challenges of airspace for the challenges of density altitude and plenty of granite around to thwart the best laid plans. This video does a great job of explaining and visually demonstrating the challenges that these pilots faced based on the decisions they made and conditions at the time of their flight.
The tragedy of this flight offers an opportunity for the rest of us to learn from their mistakes. While the Aspen area is certainly a beautiful area, there are nearby airports that would likely have made this flight a success. Grand Junction (GJT) airport is along this route and would have been a good early stop with alternates at Delta and Montrose to the south. While not as beautiful as Aspen, it does offer stunning views of Mt. Garfield and Grand Mesa. The elevation here is much lower than Aspen with plenty of room to climb out. Radio coverage can be a bit spotty when climbing out to the east. The next good option along this route is Garfield County Rifle Airport (RIL) which is often used as an alternate for Aspen and 2300 ft. lower. Finally, Eagle County Regional airport (EGE) is 1300 ft. lower with a 9000 ft. runway and more forgiving terrain during a VFR climb out.
The east-southeast departure that they took is challenging. The controller spoke @3:22 of going "down valley" (to the northwest) before making the turn east. This provides more options for climbing out VFR from Aspen with lowering elevation during climb and options in the event of a problem. Hopefully we can all learn from this incident. Thank you to the AOPA Air Safety Institute for making this video available.
The sky is clear, the air warm. Your aspirated aircraft’s normally impressive climb performance is sluggish, and you’re beginning a cross-country flight in the mountains. But you’ve flown in higher density altitudes than this, so you press on.
You circle near the airport a few times after takeoff, to gain the altitude you need before cautiously making your ways towards the mountains. Then, with no warning, you’re in a valley. Mountain peaks rise above your aircraft on both sides. You scan your map for help, but you don’t find any. Somewhere, a voice is saying “you should have turned back”.
You now have 178 seconds to live.
The mountains in front of you are many miles away, but your vertical speed indicator reads only 200 feet per minute. You ease back on the controls to climb a bit faster, but your airspeed bleeds off, so you quickly lower the nose again. Your speed increases slightly, but now you’re climbing even slower than you were before, and the mountains are getting closer. You’re sure you’ll be above their peak in a few minutes… but you don’t have a few minutes.
You now have 100 seconds to live.
You look closely outside again, and are shocked to see the valley getting narrower. You estimate that there’s no more than half a mile between the peaks. You begin a 180 degree turn, but the thin air causes a low airspeed and a high groundspeed, making your turn radius much wider than normal. You have no choice but to turn back to your initial direction. The mountains don’t look so far in the distance anymore.
You have 45 seconds to live.
Now you’re sweating and shaking. The valley floor is getting higher, and you don’t have enough altitude for a tight, descending turn that allows airspeed to be maintained. You’re running out of room.
You have 10 seconds to live.
You realise you’re going to crash, and frantically look for a place to put your aircraft. You spot what appears to be a flat clearing and fly towards it, but it’s just another steep hill. You open your mouth to scream.
As a training CFI, I'll be happy to share AOPA's content with my students. Good production and lessons to be learned as always
"LIKE I SAID BEFORE, YOU GUYS DON'T MAKE ENOUGH OF THESE INFORMATIVE VIDEOS. THIS IS WORTH THE MEMBERSHIP."
Thank you for being an AOPA member!
I'm a flat lander, but I've flown cross country over mountains a number of times. Last time was in my Cessna 140. And yes...it is a humbling experience flying through the Rocky Mountains in an 85 HP airplane. Anyway, I learned quickly that you better pick the right pass for your airplane and crunch the numbers BEFORE you take off...that is an unforgiving necessity. Once again, really excellent video!
Thank you for providing this video.
A great lesson here, they didn't have a plan, didn't comprehend what they were up against, they tried to wing it. Those rocks are unforgiving, know your plane's performance, and have a plan that can work, flying up the middle of a valley is a bad idea from a safety point of view. We can learn a few things here, the down drafts were gonna be a factor with the wind out of the east.
In 2003 a French CASA 235 military transport twin turboprop crashed in a valley of the Pyrenees in a raising valley leading to a pass, flying intentionnally low in the terrain. They crashed 200m or 650ft from the pass, trapped in a terrain raising faster than the aircraft could climb. That really relates to the narration.
Awesome video. I have been to KASE many times. All of these videos are part of the curriculum at Berichi Aviation for all students completing any rating (I'm a CFI at Berichi). Keep putting these videos out. We watch each video then do a follow up lesson on it, complimenting part of the reason we have a 100% Safety Record. We definitely owe some of that credit to the AOPA Safety Institute. These videos make a positive impact on aviation safety and are excellent training aides for all pilot training. Thanks for all your hard work AOPA Safety Institute.
Been to ASE a few times, as well. I agree with you.
100%
All my flight training has come out of Wyoming, I couldn’t be more grateful for the knowledge and experience I’ve attained in flying with high terrain and strong winds. May these pilots rest easy and I wish the best for their families.
It's a real shame that some people don't ever seem to take advantage of the hard won lessons afforded to them by experience and history. They might have had the chance to talk to another pilot who was from the area there and who could've not only told them the best routes to take (whether they intended to go the route they did or just make a mistake), but also advised them to either plan to circle higher or maybe even suggest pulling the plug on the flight for the day.
I could see either planning to leave with a lighter fuel load to improve climb performance and make an intermediate quick fuel stop, or if weather promises to be more favorable in the morning, which it might well, plan to just pick it up in the morning.
Great point. As a former NTSB regional investigator, I saw too many repeat accidents such as this one. I never figured out how to inculcate pilots against making the same errors as their unfortunate predecessors
Why Vail? (non flyer, here) After five hours flight from the west, and staying for four hours, I'd have called it a day. I don't even drive more than six hours a day any more, esp. heading into night. And a slightly longer but more open flight plan (hey, avoid Colorado all together) would seem to be in order.
I am sorta surprised that the ATC don't offer some advice given their ability to track aircraft, their avialability and I assume good local knowledge? Perhaps simple advice to reach ridge height over the airport before transiting the mountains might have saved 2 lives
Also, KASE really isn't that far at all from Denver.
All they had to do was ask some people that have done it!!! Just like you said!! This could have been avoided. My dad was a Major in the Air Force and flew F16s and was killed in an accident due to another Jerk off! Flying is extremely dangerous
These videos are a great public service - the narration is so well done!
Excellent explanations and presentation. Thank you. All points are vital food for thought.
What I have learned from this video:
1. Ensure that you’ve got a turbo charged engine if you’re going into a mountainous environment so as to maintain aircraft performance characteristics.
2. Climb to a safe altitude where are you clearing all of the ridge lines en route before actually heading outwards following any valleys or canyons - play it safe. Always.
3. If however you get caught in a bad situation in the canyon stick to one side and ensure that you’ve got enough room to turn around and do a 180 if necessary.
4. Constantly Look at how fast the valley floor is rising if you haven’t got enough altitude or cannot get high enough to clear the ridge lines.
5. Be aware of unstable air when in a mountain environment - especially downdraughts.
6. Learn How the aircraft handles at different heights through practice flights before going into mountainous situations.
In my humble opinion as a low time pilot, the key to longevity in flying is humility. R.I.P. fellows deceased pilots. Your death was not in vain.
I rather would have guessed it is "prudence" and "situational awareness" rather than "humility"
We fly c206. Takes us roughly 20-25 minutes to climb to 9500' takes us additional 15-20 minutes for another 1500' to 11000'. I'm surprised how much power/climb loss you can have once you hit a certain altitude. Climb is fine (for the plane), but at 9000' it just stops climbing, till you adjust mixture and then only gets about 100 fpm of climb if we're lucky.
Moral of the story! You might think your climb is good, until suddenly it's not and now you can't turn. Altitude changes handling of your plane in a big way.
It strikes me that it makes sense to fly the intended route in a sim program first before trying it for real and identifying these issues like the density altitude problems ahead of time. RIP to those two pilots.
I'm so glad people are using these flight simulators for reconstructions it really helps follow what happened.
Thank you for another case study video. There is so much we can all learn from these types of videos. As an Aspen pilot myself, this one really hits home.
I wish you could make more of these videos! Keep it up! Thanks
How many times does this have to happen? Gonna fly mountains? Do some basic research and plan. Please!
The animation combined with narration enabled me to understand esoteric concepts
Not a pilot, but I've never considered any of this information before. I can definitely see how a simple error can cause a catastrophic event. It's so easy to miscalculate.
Thank you for another wonderfully produced case study. As a flat lander, I’m terrified of mountain flying simply because I’m uneducated about it. I know it can be done safely, and plan on taking mountain flying courses prior to trying it for myself. Hopefully others will learn so this tragedy is not repeated.
I'm from the Netherlands. I hear you! 😟
The main thing is to never try outclimbing terrain. Plan your route and know how high the peaks are, and make sure you're above them before you head towards them, even if that means twenty or thirty minutes of wasted time climbing. Fly down the right side of valleys (as mentioned in the video) to avoid traffic (since you'll both likely be flying co -altitude for as much terrain clearance as possible), and get as much altitude as you can when crossing ridges. They often have a big updraft and a big downdraft on each side, respectively, and if you get stuck in a 1500 fpm downdraft you'll appreciate 2000 feet to get out of it with.
@@jingle1161 You can practically fly below sea level in the Netherlands!
Having respect for the mountains is why you won't die flying in them. ;)
"We're unfamiliar with the area..." A disturbing statement, in hindsight.
yes and "we will make our decision once we take off" is another statement that doesn't sound like the best idea in mountain terrain. better take some more time preparing the routing and calculating top of climb
Thanks for the very pragmatic description of the effects of density altitude. You brought the point home better than a textbook.... and so did those 2 pilots, who went beyond their experience, and expertise. My heart fell, at their tragic crash.
babe wake up, a new air safety institute accident case study just dropped
You don't have to go thru this route.. They could have gone thru ABQ... Much lower terrain... Looks like they wanted to visit Aspen. If so they should have stayed overnight and left at dawn.
These videos are just SO brilliantly put together. Please keep them coming.
When he told ATC of his intentions to fly "East/Southeast," my personal opinion is that he wasn't speaking of the ridges and valleys at all. I believe he was referring to the direction Iowa was in. His assumption was to get up there and find a path.
It's situations like this and airports like Aspen that do a good job at articulating like why we get paid an extra hour at my airline for each landing into Aspen. There is little room for error, let alone a mechanical anomalie. The highest I've flown anything was a SR22T into Telluride--still 1,000ft lower than Aspen on this day--and it took a solid hour of preflight and number crunching. I'm a flatlander from Florida and it was my first mountain experience with 2 clients aboard. Hardly intelligent. Easy enough with a turbocharged aircraft, but this situation could've happened to us or anyone else. Y'all stay safe and crunch them numbers.
That's utter madness 😳 what were they thinking???
The "Unable to make 16000" was the key indicator of an unmanageable threat, which should have been thought about and planned for before they left the crew room, not after they had received their IFR clearance....
Just absolute madness. Plenty to learn from this. Excellent video and once again excellent commentary.
I don't understand how they could have planned on flying IFR across the country if they couldn't overtop the peaks of the mountains.
@@nitehawk86 In the SID it says "TAKEOFF RUNWAY 33: Climb heading 343° to 9100, then climbing left turn to 16000 on heading 273° to intercept I-PKN NW course outbound to LINDZ INT/DBL 13 DME. Then via assigned transition, maintain 16000, expect clearance to filed altitude 10 minutes after departure"....
Which is exactly what the controller gave them. Makes me think the didn't even read and brief the SID before startup! 🤦🏻♂️. With an ATPL in the cockpit who should know better, that just shouldn't be happening.
How many more times is poor airmanship in the form of bad or no planning going to kill people?
Seems like you just answered that question; they don't appear to have planned much, if at all
Get there-Itis. I knew an Alaskan light plane pilot who told me about this years ago. They get impatient and don't do enough circles to gain altitude. Hit that valley and the downdraft pushes you in. He called it "Riding it in". No options. You just watch as the ground comes up.
I can’t wait for more of these videos! Great job, ASI.
I watched a Cessna fly up the East Maroon Creek valley while eating my lunch on the top of Pyramid Peak. For those unfamiliar with the terrain near Aspen, this is the valley just to the east of Pyramid Peak. It was surreal looking down about 3,000 feet at an airplane struggling to get up the valley. He went straight up the gut, no chance of turning around. We sat and watched him for the 3 or 4 minutes it took for him to make it to East Maroon Pass (11,800 - ish, I think) - and it was terrifying to watch. He couldn't have been more than 50 feet above the ground when he cleared the pass. Either an extremely experience pilot, or an extremely lucky one. I'm guessing it was the latter.
I can't imagine not doing more homework before attempting a cross of the Rockies. Looks like little to none experience with Density Altitude effects and pre-planning. And how could they not know that they would be up at Oxygen altitudes??
Especially the fact that they changed to VFR and decided to take off to "see their options". Unfamiliar with the area and the terrain etc...
The die for this accident was cast before the flight itself. Poor route planning, combined with apparently little or no specific familiarity & study of the performance required for this second leg, did these travelers in
One guy's an ATP, they're both from NY. Their only experience is punching in and out of max 2K airports, I see why their only concern with altitude was likely the unavailability of supplemental oxygen.
Didnt read and brief the SID before startup.
TAKEOFF RUNWAY 33: Climb heading 343° to 9100, then climbing left turn to 16000 on heading 273° to intercept I-PKN NW course outbound to LINDZ INT/DBL 13 DME. Then via assigned transition, maintain 16000, expect clearance to filed altitude 10 minutes after departure.
@@davidb2045 Surely an ATP knows to read and brief the IFR departure procedure prior to getting an airways clearance? Unless they don't read and follow the published procedures in NY? 🤷🏻♂️
Amazing work, guys! Thank you for your service to general aviation. Great use of MS Flight Simulator (I assume?) for this purpose!
I trained at the high altitude flight school in Leadville, CO. I just shook my head watching this and developed a sick feeling in my stomach.
As always thank you for these sad learning opportunities that are so thoroughly prepared and professionally presented!
While density altitude was the ultimate killer in this case, what started them down that path was improper flight planning to begin with and poor risk management of the situation they were getting into. They then further exacerbated this when, realizing that they could not climb and maintain the altitude cleared by ATC on the SID, they then decided to wing it VFR. That’s pretty classic impulsivity at work. To a certain extent you may not be able to blame them. They were ATP rated pilots with a lot of experience and jets. Well that may sound even more damning of their decisions, keep in mind that it creates inaccurate and vulnerable perceptions about how airplanes perform and may not allow them to perceive just how poor the climb and maneuvering performance of a light Part 23 normally aspirated airplane like a Bonanza will fly under those conditions. I would also have to know about their competency in mountain flying as that’s another key factor here. As you pointed out, the combination of high density altitude plus downdrafts and sinkers from wind flowing over the mountains ultimately brought about the inability of the aircraft to climb over terrain. As a CFI I recommend to my students who finish up a PPL not to attempt mountain flying until they take a course on it from a competent instructor. And even then, seek out the advice from an experienced CFI if they are flying in an unfamiliar mountainous region as this person can be a wealth of information as well as alert them to a lot of hazards in their region of flight.
The instant these pilots realized the density altitude would not permit them to depart IFR using the SID should have raised immediate red flags. Being aware of this, you need to really carefully evaluate your options at that point as opposed to simply rushing into the decision to depart VFR and make your choice of course ad hoc while enroute. Combined with the fact that it’s starting to get late in the evening, the wisest route would’ve been simply to cancel their intentions to depart, and taxi back to the ramp. $50 worth of Uber rides and a $150 hotel room in Aspen for the night while you wait for better flying conditions and planning a new flight beats the hell out of dying in an airplane crash. Just another sad story about people who poorly evaluated the risks of what they were doing and got in over their heads.
So true, although I wonder whether $150 will get a room in Aspen. Seriously, though, shouldn't they have known and briefed the SID before ATC gave them that info?
I'm a student with a couple questions - would a VFR departure in this situation be otherwise OK if they had done so having studied the geography to find a calculated route? Also, would a VFR departure so late in the day be wise in any case? i.e., it forces them to stay atop the mountains, as you can't fly through terrain with no visual reference. It would rob you of opportunity to descend in the event of malfunction or unexpected poor performance.
@@JaidenJimenez86A VFR departure can be a safe and acceptable means of cross country flight over mountainous terrain, provided it is properly planned with precise performance calculations, backup contingency plans and backup plans for those backups.
That being said, if they had run the numbers for a VFR flight that day over the mountains, the results would have been pretty grim. I don’t know how someone could fly a Bonanza with full fuel, two grown men and their luggage through those mountain passes with density altitudes over the passes being as high as 16000 feet. There was little margin for maneuvering or error. Most likely if they had run the numbers they would have found it was extremely unwise to attempt a flight out of KASE that day.
At the time they were about to depart KASE, they had about 2 solid hours of daylight left. That’s really starting to push it as there isn’t much margain for error. Canyons and mountain passes get dark quick. It’s risky to go off and do that.
And the situation did not appear to be getting better. Overnight lows for the next day only dropped the outside air temperature to the high 50s, leaving the density altitude at ~9500 ft at KASE. Combined with it being the Fourth of July weekend, I’m sure the were worried about FBO hours plus fuel and maintenance availability over the rest of the cross country flight.
An IFR flight is not required for a cross country flight, but the ability of an aircraft to perform an IFR ODP and fly at of above the MEA or OROCA of an airway is a good yardstick for whether you can safely make a cross country flight, VFR or otherwise.
Given the conditions out there at KASE, they were probably going to be stuck there in Aspen for the weekend (terrible, right?). They would also have to amend their planned cross country for a safe chance of getting of of Aspen. There are multiple ways to solve this problem, but I might recommend having the FBO siphon gas out of the tanks to tabs or lower, depart KASE at dawn on an amended CC flight to Denver (KBJC, KAPA or similar), grab a full load of fuel there and continue on. If that’s not possible by the numbers, you have no choice but to grab a commercial flight out of Aspen to your final destination and leave the airplane behind. Maybe they could hire a 130 lb female ferry pilot to complete the job.
@@TheRealCFF agree with pretty much everything you’re saying. I question the decision to stop in aspen in the first place, but maybe these two were more familiar with the airplanes performance than they showed here. The video discusses the technique of getting above terrain before heading toward it, which I’ve never heard, but I’m a south Texas pilot, in 90% flat land. Sounds like that would have saved them. Also I really don’t like the decision to figure out our path once we’re airborne.
@@jccalhoun4972 climbing to ridge height before proceeding toward a ridge line is always a good policy when mountain flying. In still air you’re just fine but if you have winds moving over and through those mountains your going to have downdrafts and sinkers to contend with. If your airplane can claw its way up to ridge crossing altitude at 200-300 fpm at Vy, thence encounters a 600-800 fpm sinker, you could be in serious trouble as the airplane has insufficient power available to maintain altitude and you’ll descend into terrain. That has killed people while mountain flying.
Again a very worthwhile video, but what a costly lesson to learn.
It is ABOUT FREAKING TIME you guys published a new video. I LOVE this series...
Absolutely appreciate the content you guys produce.
The pilot, David, was an incredible man and very experienced pilot who I knew personally. He had previously flown in Aspen hundreds of times and owned his own aviation company on the east coast. This event was shocking and tragic for the people who knew and loved him, and although this tragic miscalculation cost him his life and that of his friend, I am very thankful that others can learn from his mistake and hopefully not repeat it. Rest in Peace, David.
As someone who also knew David and his children very well, I can positively say that David was the most charismatic and thoughtful man I will ever meet. May his soul Rest in Peace.
I was hiking once in 2003 up the valley toward Schofield pass just out of Marble. We found parts of a plane off trail (air intake), perhaps a similar situation occurred. What happened is still a mystery.
Great vid ASI. I'm learning alot from these case studies. Condolences to the pilots' families.
Yet again an excellent learning 'tool' from AOPA. Thank you for sharing this sobering lesson.
Density altitude is one of those things we learn about in primary training in theory, but that theory does not prepare you for the realities of what high-density altitude really means. I have flown most of my hours out of Angel Fire, New Mexico (KAXX) where the field elevation is 8,380 feet. We have had a lot of planes simply unable to take flight out of ground effect resulting in aborted takeoffs. There have been some fatal accidents out of this as well, most of those due to mountain winds (typically from the west, but occasionally from the east, which changes things a lot). We had so many close-calls and accidents over the past few years that we did a safety video about flying in-and-out of the area. I would love to see AOPA sponsor an initiative to formally do this at high-risk airports. The Angel Fire video is no where nearly as professional as this one. ua-cam.com/video/AmrAX7tSvvQ/v-deo.html
Love that you use MSFS now.
this
Thank you for these videos. I started my PPL years ago and haven't finished - but intend to one day. Watching these despite not yet flying is teaching me a lot about not just what never to assume, but an appreciation for engendering my own focus on safety culture while flying.
Very good vid to learn from. Thank you, and may the pilots rest in peace