Jackie Chan's Kung Fu is "Fake" and That's Okay | Video Essay
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- Accented Cinema - Episode 16
It's an age old question: Can Jackie Chan fight? Many people call Kung Fu "fake", for the simple reason that its practitioner isn't the best in an MMA ring. And that, ot me, its a very narrow minded understanding of Kung Fu.
So, for this episode, I'd like to talk about how Kung Fu took over cinema, and how it has changed. And through this exploration, hopefully we can learn to appreciate Kung Fu's beauty.
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UPDATE 2:
To clarify. This video does not claim Kung Fu to be fake, nor claim jackie Chan to be fake. It is a response to people who called those things fake. Hence, why the word "fake" is in quotes.
Jackie and other Kung Fu stars are expert at showman Kung Fu, which has its root from Beijing Opera. It doesn't mean that they can't fight in real life. One can be an expert in both disciplines.
While I stand by my ground that most styles of Kung Fu lost their focus on combat, it does not mean all Kung Fu is completely useless in combat. There are still styles of Wing Chun, Hung Ga among others that does. But that is not the focus of this video.
This video aims to appreciate a different forms of Kung Fu. To appreciate people's ability to kick open a bottle cap without touching the bottle itself. It's a discpline often called "fake". It's a set of skills under-appreciated.
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UPDATE:
Alright, guys. You can stop telling me to pick a fight with Jackie Chan.
I did say "Through Kung Fu, Practitioners achieve such fine control over their body, It shouldn't be any less impressive than a real fighter"
So yes, I know he can fight. And Anderson Silva can act, too. Surprisingly well, actually.
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Did you notice I didn't say "John Cena" even once in this episode?
That's because I didn't see him in this video.
Anyway, you can vote for next episode's topic on Patreon/AccentedCinema!
Legend has it that you can only see Cena if his presence is preceded by his theme song.
WTF..... I did not see that one. Are you John Cena?
John Cena? Where??
I thought I saw Jackie Chan
Great video but uh ... where's John Cena?
This kind of reminds me of what someone said: "I hated wrestling until I realized that wrestlers are not jocks, but really buff theater nerds."
Perfect sum up
that kind of wrestling you see in WWE (besides the elbow drops and RKO's and all the other fake ladder and jump stuff) used to be in older generations of MMA like Pride. Greco Roman Wrestling is a thing of beauty.
Aggressive theater for sure
@@RobespierreThePoof You just pretty much made a really accurate assessment of WWE.
Most WWE guys try to get into acting but they're just not good actors.
Chinese actors can act and they can do theatrical martial arts. They also sing really well, while they may not be the most technical vocalists they can hold a note and pitch their vocal cords to the chords of a song and implement basic singing techniques.
WWE guys are just stuntmen, they make far less money too and aren't given formal education on anything besides maybe stunting and the wrestling.
@@RobespierreThePoof wrestling still requires immense strength, coordination, and cooperation to do it well and do it safely. don't get too high on that horse.
With that Pro Wrestling example, there's a classic quote from that world that makes sense in Jackie Chan's case.
"You can't fake gravity."
that doesnt stop flat eathers from trying
some of the chinese kung fu movies disagree with you.
The tables slow the acceleration of the body to the mat thus minimizing fall damage.
Exactly, like tony jaa this guy is crazy, he don't even use special effects in his stunts in moving that why look so realistic and amazing
@Roselo Quiro I really hope you're joking.
As long as people acknowledge Jackie for all the bones he's broken for our entertainment ❤
I'm recently hearing most of that is not true. His stunts were apparently done by doubles and looking at the footage, it sadly seems so. Definitely not Jackie in many shots where a stunt is done.
@@Lion-O-Richie2040 Stop spreading misinformation.
@@Lion-O-Richie2040 Pls don't spread misinformation
And his hole in his skull
@@Lion-O-Richie2040 Lie more.
CORRECT.. Chan himself has stated that he does not use "true kung fu", he uses the moves instilled in him from the Opera school. It would be dumb to use real fighting moves "unless you WANTED to put fellow actors in traction or morgue".
No, kung fu is completely fake
There is no “true kung fu”
@@OfAngelsAndAnarchist So what?
@@The6thReich just always be aware, it’s a performance art and not a martial art
Duh…
@@OfAngelsAndAnarchist that's the entire point of the video bro. Thanks for being pointless
@@ThePizzaGoblin I was addressing the comment, not the video
So… judge away, moron
"there's nothing fake about a 10 foot drop" my tailbone to me
Steve Austin said it best. Wrestling is scripted, but that script doesn't make the floor any softer.
I just don't know why Edge would just throw himself ass first onto those tables like that. There was no one else there to stop him. Even the refs helped keep the ladder steady for him. 🤷♂️
indeed
Mick folleys plunge from the steel cage is still fresh in my memory. Death defying fall.
@@bkmeahan Yeah, but the springs on the floor of the wrestling ring do
I don’t care how “fake” Jackie Chan’s Kung Fu is.
The man’s sixty-five, and he STILL does a respectable portion of his stunts.
Exactly. You need real Going Fu to do those stints. Next he gonna tell us qi gong is fake. Hk don't play. If u can't survive the jump. Your oytbif a job. Kung Fu will not respect posers.
It's not that big a deal, really. He's always in peak physical shape from carrying around those giant brass balls of his.
The reason Jackie's kungfu may seem fake is because he actually wants it that way, plus he said in an interview that "he loves action but hates violence" so obviously he's type of kungfu won't be based on blood and death
@@nnaemekachimezie1356 Just because someone hilds back and decides to really of uphold the real moral code of not using Kung Fu to hurt others for fame or money, does not mean you dont have the ability. So in my Book, of you jave the power, practice it, and are the real deal, you dont have to prove jack to jealous lookers, fanboys, has beens, and wanna bees. A True Master is humble with it always. Most people talking crap aint even on the level.
JC is a lefit Legend for a reason. Yes hes a traditionally trained opera. But JC is beyond acting. He can hold gis own if a legit fight came to him. Now will he go around starting fichts, flexing on people or step into a MMA ring to pound the blood put of people for the sake of a tittle belt for rhe amusement of people and to benifit gamblers whk bet on fights..Hells no. Theres a thing called Real class!
-hELLA HUNG
@@hungdynasty3373 Lol I'm on your side I understand JC is a legend both off screen and on screen
Because jackie uses his opera skills to choreograph a dance as a fight for us. But he still knows his kung fu. I highly respect him for that. Making traditional kung fu look like a street fight in police story was the big milestone and impressed the hell out of me, especially how real, snappy and quick the fights looked. The performance in it was outstanding
He didn’t do any Kung fu in Police story, but that movie is phenomenal lol
@@aquaticlibrary You don't know what the hell you're talking about. You're just another one of these meatheads that wanna call Kung Fu fake.
jackie chan was dubbed the worlds toughest man, breaking so many bones and still survive.
It’s not like he broke them all at once…
Plz send me the video real fight of Jacky Chan and
last fight
@@CrRono__007 even tho it was choreographed, the movie Wheels on Meals where Jackie Chan is fighting Benny Urquidez had some legit hits, there's an interview with Benny talking about it
The thing is, the majority of his "favorite"/"most dangerous" stunts are lies. They are either the stunt not done by him at all, the movie version wasn't him, the risk was greatly exaggerated, the injury was greatly exaggerated, or the injury he claims he suffered was in fact suffered by another stuntman. There are many cases were you can recognize the stuntman actually performing in the film who is not him, and so many more bluffs that we take simply took him word for it. At the end of the day, he is a movie star who cannot possibly risk that much in every film, no matter how talented as a stuntman he is. His team performed for him to maintain his legendary stuntman star mirage. See this documentary/investigation if interested. ua-cam.com/video/puKsjFRwIyw/v-deo.html
The dude doesnt even need a stuntman because he is the stuntman
Real fights are ugly, quick and totally un-cinematic.
......and without sound effects.
And without flying
and without the need to get drunk first.
And usually very short.
I think the 60's films got fight scenes right before the need for realistic fight scenes
He has been qusted saying " Im an actor who can fight, not a fighter who can act."...
a joke...
@Rocky racoon Tadd ya a dream would be the only way as both bruce and jet have studded real kong fu since a young age,idk how long Jackie has studded
@@0Heeroyuy01 he never did, he's only an actor that studied specific moves for specific scenes but I'm sure he can probably land more than a few punches.
But I wouldn't be able to land a single punch with all those funny faces he makes, no way
@Rocky racoon Tadd I'm pretty sure you could take on Bruce Lee right now, at the very least. Unless the zombie apocalypse happens in which case I'd leave him alone then
I would too say what Jackie said in order to stop people from haggling me on the streets and interviewers asking the same question.
Chan's Hong Kong stunt team was a marvel and he was a perfectionist. I really like how his ego wasn't out of control and he'd allow costars and villains to shine. Also, how he let himself get beat/hit or be the butt of the joke at times.
He’s still really good at fighting tho, I wouldn’t want to get into a fight even if I’m not alone
He's also done boxing, karate, TKD, among many others he knows his stuff
He is also has Hapkido skills taught to him by Whang In Sik the villian from The Young Master and Dragon lord, also Thai Boxing skills as his stuntman/trainer Ken Lo (Drunken Master 2) was a 5 time thai boxing champ from laos, and for a short time he was a bouncer in Australia.
Honestly i have some boxing experience, im confident i could beat up the 66 yr old.
@@Kage-jk4pj I doubt that, boxing is very sports-like, too many restrictions, you can't even kick
who the hell cares? the reality doesn't always care about honor and proud. you can poison someone, shoot at somebody or take any weapon that doesn't required martial combat or art experience. Even a weak guy can kill you. Why artist and fighter always need to compare their shit? I love all part of martial art and combat but just stop shittalking who's stronger or which is better. I'm far more afraid of a dangerous scientist who killed millions of people than a fighter who just spend their time beating up guys.
The amount of people with a complete lack of comprehension for what the video is about is kind of worrying.
Dude, a good percentage of ppl believe u will pop back to life when u die, that there are ghost and spirits around every corner, and that useless rituals can do more than ease your mind. But through all this madness we survive. We can survive some wild ideas about martial arts too
@@mrpatterson5723 buddy, religion ain't ever going away. It's always been there and it will always be needed
😂😂😂
@@danield.8233 I mean, I've been living without it for years now and doing fine, I don't need it at all, and if but one person doesn't (and believe you me, there are more of us), then it's percectly plausible that, some time into the future, no-one will.
@@danield.8233 Humanity is too stupid to rely on bullshit, pointless religions to keep their minds fresh
Jackie Chan himself said "Im not a Martial artist who can act, Im an actor who can do Martial arts" so technically his Martial arts are not "fake" because they are not meant to be efficient in "real" fights or even used in "real" fights, *he is an actor first and then a Martial artist*
@Xiao Long I dont know him, just saying what he himself said on an interview
Actually, his style of martial arts is really refined so for a normal person , the form is useless because they are not as good as martial arts as Jackie.
@Xiao Long So then why did he go the school for film then, Jackie definitely wanted to be famous the man was a porn star, a singer, stunt man, and martial arts star. a weird path for a person that just wanted to do martial arts
Well let me put it this way. Whenever Bruce Lee was in real street combat his way of fighting was very different from what he did in the movies because he knew full well that movies are entertainment and real combat is not.
@Xiao Long i understand that youre brainwashed by chinese propaganda but that doesnt mean you have to froth at the mouth everytime you see chinese material in media. Youre just like trump
Jacky's stunning action abilities is hard to find a better one in the world. His physical strength is also one of the best in the world in his class. If Jacky had to compete in the ring, who knows he won't be one of the best too.
He’ll freaking suck
Hurting people is easy... to execute fighting moves that make contact, look good and convincing, and don’t hurt other people, that is an ART.
Agree! It would need a great and precise control
i remember That one line in KarateKid..Jackie said "everything is kungfu"
Cringe the fact that the movie called "Karate Kid" and the whole movie was about kung fu
Karate came from Okinawa and China, search in Wikipedia.
What he really meant I think is, kung fu means hard work. Everyone need kung fu to accomplish their art. Bruce Lee introduced that to the west as it was easier to say than Wu shu means someway in the line of military art. That is what it was used for, war. The last 50 or 60 years it hasn't been used properly. Probably last 100 it hasn't been in use much. So it faded. In the west they discover and make competitions with anything so there is been much more lately of that full contact. Chinese are too philosophical to be the aggressors. When it comes to martial arts. But you better not mess with their army 😉
I hate the remake of the karate kid with jaiden, I love Jackie tho. The "karate" kid is actually never taught karate he is actually taught kung fu and the title of the movie was called kung fu kid but changed when came to america it was changed to karate kid to get more marketing
yup pooping too
Other people: You're kung fu is fake
Jackie: Yep, it's only for my films
Other people: So you can't whoop someone's ass in real life
Jackie: I learned boxing and taekwondo too you know
Other people: ........
He also was trained by grandmaster Chiu Chi Ling in Hung Gar, who also starred in many films for fun in minor comedic roles, while still being able to fight in real life. Someone from Wong Fei Hung's lineage no matter from which school learns how to fight, or doesn't progress far.
Howewer most Hung Gar fighter of this line also learn how to look fancy when showing off to draw in more people. So this way you can do shows, without giving away anything outright.
Your*
@gottfer he could completely be a native, the amount of them that commit those grammar errors is astouning
Jackie himself said he knows how to fight for real, at least enough for a regular street fight. However, he admitted you shouldn't bet money on him in a MMA fight against good fighters.
@@Puschit1 which is intelligent. Hung Gar isn't really suited for MMA fights if you consider the fact, that you aren't allowed to use big chunks of that Style, due to restrictions and rules. Usually you learn how to hit weak spots on joints, which pressure points and soft spots you can use crane and snake techniques on, etc. for street fights.
I always admired as a kid, to all those making scenes, they show at the end of Jackie's movies. Showing the other side, reality of making those beautiful scenes. I remember after watching Bruce Lee movies, we were bunch of kids going out and start "fighting", immediately you find out that there is no time for beautiful pose and kicks. :)
People always questioned if Jackie can fight, did anyone ever question if Stallone can box/fight? Just curious. I personally never did growing up for whatever reason.
It's mostly because martial arts in the West generally (emphasis on "generally") has this weird cultish behavior and there are gatekeepers everywhere who think they know better than everyone else so they'll talk shit about Jackie Chan for no reason other than that their training from Sensei Bobby shows that Chan's fights are choreographed performances.
Also everyone already knows Stallone can’t fight. It’s because Kung Fu looks good that people question it. But either way, the answer is the same. Not at a professional level.
Racism probably
Stallone still acts like he was a real boxer til this day lol.
Was stallone a boxer in all of his movies? But Jackie Chan knows kung fu in all of his, that is why.
Even though Jackie Chan only does "fake" fighting, the amount of physical strength, balance and body control that it takes means that he would still be pretty formidable in a real fight. As far as real forms of unarmed combat, Sanda/Sanshou is pretty effective, as is Shuai Jiao. Other styles can be made more combat-effective through the introduction of sparring, and the move away from the more showy techniques and towards the basics.
Jackie Chan is basically a dancer/acrobat. That doesn't mean that he'd be pretty formidable in a real fight, unless he actually has real experience with real fighting. Bruce Lee is an example of someone who could dance and look good on film, but he also actually knew how to fight and really devoted himself to improving himself as a fighter.
@@echelon2k8 well, actually a real fighter by the name of Benny "The Jet" Urquidez once fought Jackie and said he was quite an opponent. The two duked it out for real resulting in some injuries, but there was no clear winner from what I heard.
@@KanekiJasonPhanKenTokyo I question the legitimacy of this. Things will be said around the making of martial arts movies for promotional purposes, etc. If they had 'really' fought, Jackie would have lost for sure. Perhaps Benny was just being respectful to who was actually the star of the movie thinking that he might get a call back sometime - which he did.
Jacky and Sammo did spend time in Korea to train in Hapkido under Grandmaster Hwang In Sik who played the villain in Jackie's movie "The Young Master", so it's not like they had no formal martial arts training besides Peking Opera acrobatics. That's where they learned all those jumping spinning kicks from, since Peking Opera emphasized somersaults and weapons play more instead of triple spin kicks and machine gun turret kicks.
@@johnlloyddy7016 That's part of them being dancers more than anything else. They did that to learn more flowery kicks for their movies rather than to learn how to actually fight. Just because it's supposed to be formal martial arts training doesn't mean that it's actually good for real fighting. Most martial arts aren't.
“In other words, you don't just kick ass. You have to look good doing it.” 😂
There was a recent interview with Benny Urquidez who you might remember from Wheels on Meals and who is a champion kickboxer. He even says that Jackie can hold his own if he were in a real fight. Yes his movies are choreographed but he is a student who observes how people move and react. This aspect according to Benny makes him a formidable fighter
The fact that Kung Fu is alive through cinema and acting shows just how excellent of a practice it actually is. Everything in human history changes as we evolve into new ages. Kung Fu is no longer needed for practical self defense or military training in the same way that we no longer use swords and pole arms in conventional warfare. However, Kung Fu and swordsmanship still bewilder us as a form of human history, and we keep that history alive through performances.
I can't see it as "fake" fighting, I see it as a celebration of our evolution of our species' ability to develop new and interesting fighting styles from different cultures. As long as it is truthfully advertised as entertainment, then the only criticism we should give cinema Kung Fu is the quality of the 'performance' instead of its practicality.
On the other hand, people should also recognize that combat sports are also a cultural continuation of antiquated skills where practicality is compromised (never practicing illegal strikes, hand wraps that stabilize the fist and skews towards punching, the fact that flopping to your back can be a good stalling move when groin stomps are illegal). Without this awareness, people fall victim to a lot of false advertisement in the self-defense business.
Jackie Chan has an interview on the David Letterman show in which he told a story about him and his Peking opera brothers getting into a brawl w/ a bunch of biker gangs. They won the fight within half a minute or so, then ran away. Jackie's fist was wounded, and he refused to go to the hospital due to police activity. After a couple of days, the wound continued to swell, oozing out watery blood. Thinking that it's a broken bone, he tried to push it back in place but something popped out instead. "It's a tooth!"
street art rebel Watch this video again, have captions on, and listening very carefully to what he says, you clearly either lack comprehension, or are a troll. The amount of secondhand embarrassment I feel from your comment is sickening.
He acknowledged Jackie Chan’s skill, the point of this video was to explain why Kung Fu in cinema looks “Fake”, because it is. This doesn’t at all make the actors performing it any less skilled, but cinema Kung Fu is clearly for entertainment purposes, to look good. While actual Kung Fu isn’t, (Kung Fu using his definition of it, which he put as a small comment in the video.)
Also the small tangent you went on to talk shade was laughable, read the pinned comment as well to get a better understanding of what this video was about.
jp3813 I remember this story! It’s wild when he tells it. Always loved hearing him talk about his life on talkshows especially on Conan too!
@@shadowlancer45 You know Jackie was a personal favourite of Bruce Lee right?
Even Bruce Lee know Jackie was an opera performance, but he respect Jackie can fight too if it was intended for it, and Bruce Lee was born fighter from the street.
He knows other combat styles
Well that sounds incredibly disgusting... But now i want to see that interview
I'm slowly working my way through your channel and this has to be one of my favourite videos so far :) It's skillfully edited, very informative and terribly entertaining :) I've already watched it twice hehe.
Kung Fu Masters : His Kung Fu is Fake
Me : But, his fakeness entertained many hearts than souring them.
I think the real problem is "fake masters" calling others out, like claiming they can KO a pro MMA fighter.
That Kiai master is the example of this... .
yip man did it.
Bruh with out Bruce lee and Chinese people there would be no kung fu And mma fighters are cocky like really cocky they fight for money like that’s stupid
@@netzarim1803 fighting for honor doesn't pay the bills
Chicken..........precisely......
'real' fights are over in a few seconds. that would not make an interesting movie.
I believe Jackie Chan can fight though. Even as an old man now he can still kick ass
@Mr Satan try getting old. Also I'm pretty sure you don't even do 0.001 percent of the stun Jackie Chan had done.
I feel your whole point is redundant because No 1, everyone gets old, No 2 he is still working his ass off and No 3 he did his fair share of real stuns over the decades. he don't deserve your disparaging comment.
You want him dead or something? Or maybe it is fun for you to make light of aging?
But you know he actually learned kung fu, well that's what I heard in one of his interview, also when he did the karate kid with jaden Smith, he actually mentions how jaden surpassed his son who actually knows kung fu.
@Mr Satan Yea that's because he's elderly now. I wouldn't wanna see him try to do stunts now at his age.
In his prime he was a machine, learning a bunch of martial arts alongside Kung Fu. The guy would smash anyone. Also he founded his own Stuntman school and it's known worldwide. Look it up man. Jackie Chan is a fucking legend!
@Mr Satan You realize he's in his mid (or is it late?) sixties, right? What do you expect? Everyone ages!
@Mr Satan Technically he could, it's just way too expensive for him to even try doing it the way he used to.
"Did you watch Game of Thrones?"
-"You know that's fake, right?"
Bruh its a tv show of course its fake its just acting duh
I just know that all these "fake" artists can beat me down easily hahahhaha
You don't know anything there is a lot of realMartial artist in movies like Lee was a real martial artist!
@@mastertorryn5397 whoosh
@@vovomorreu Jet Li and Bruce Lee were all real Martial artist different training in the martial arts for years before they were even in movies same thing with Jackie Chan!
@@mastertorryn5397 thank you, captain obvious. You saved the day explaining something that even my grandmother knows.
@@vovomorreu There actually not fake, Trained for years Before they were even in movies!
first person I've seen to actually acknowledge the "Artist" in Martial Arts
I've seen Donald Cerrones slip Rick Story's jab to counter with a 3 piece and shake, Anderson Silva's snap kick to Vitor Belfort, Adesanya vs Gastellum, and every Saenchai highlight.
Watch those and tell me that isn't art.
@@slingshotmcoy Still art. But art itself doesnt have to be realistic.
Real martial artists realized this on their own
@@ffnovice7 It's nothing I've ever needed explained to me, either. We're supposed to do both, not only one or the other.
MMA = mixed martial arts
Exaggeration has and will always be a tool for artist to entertain.
Patrick Correa -- Exaggeration is also a powerful form or tool of intimidation. That, in itself, will help to stop many confrontations. After witnessing nimble skills exhibited with ease, an opponent will often rethink their decision to attack.
Jackie always admitted that his 'kung fu' was for entertainment. He was a Bruce Lee replacement. The early movies uses a more brutal 'Bruce Lee' street fighting style with Opera style martial arts. But he move away into acrobatic and comedy stuff as he wanted to lessen the brutality of real fighting and into a more 'family friendly' style.. Either way, he still train in real martial arts. You should see the re take of all his mistimed actions. It's really painful.
exaggeration is often the only viable tool that can be used to translate information to a general audience. If fights in movies were 'realistic' then general audiences won't be as engaged as they can't spot the techniques like another trained fighter can (kinda like why modern sports have rulesets that encourage a more entertaining viewing experience rather than just for fair competition). That is the purpose of exaggeration in entertainment, to sell the idea of the action. It's a basic principal for animation too and why it can be so expressive. That isn't to say all martial arts are only for entertainment, but it's probably better to judge based on a case by case basis.
I watched an interview with Jackie Chan explaining that he started training as an actor at a young age and he said something about singing...but I don't recall him saying anything about martial arts or how he became a stuntman. This video completely clarified things for me, as I had no idea that he was recruited to join the Bejing Opera - and I didn't realise that Bejing Opera consists of those four elements. Everything makes sense now.
Thank you for creating this video and explaining the origins of showman martial arts to the Western audience. It's ironic how WWE is so highly prized in America and no one seems to question it's authenticity - yet, despite also enjoying Kung Fu in film, the we immediately criticize the practicality of the martial art shown onscreen. The speed, fluidity, grace, and awe-inspiring athleticism that is displayed onscreen in a martial arts film is truly remarkable and it stuns audiences everywhere. Much respect to Jackie Chan, Donnie Yen, Jet Li, Michelle Yeoh, and all the other talented actors who dazzle us with their prowess. I personally don't care if what I see onscreen is practical in real combat - that's not why I'm watching the movie. Thank you very much. 🙂
Beijing opera training back in the day was one of the most brutal type of training any child can go through. Jackie and his classmates all went through intense acrobatic and martial arts training. Today this would be called child abuse. They were able to take those skills and carve out an impressive career in film. Jackie was part of an opera troupe that was named "Seven Little Fortunes". There's actually more than seven of them, but every one of them are considered legends now in the film industry. The most notable ones are Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung and Yuen Biao.
Pro wrestling had their root in carnivals and entertainment fairs, which were part of US cultural development. This is why they so well regarded in US (and later, spreaded on world), because it 'spoke' to them. Local champion fights against undefeated cocky champion from 3 states beyond, that kind of things.
You can see these in luchador culture, for example.
After entering the film industry, Chan along with Sammo Hung got the opportunity to train in hapkido under the grand master Jin Pal Kim, and Chan eventually attained a black belt. Jackie Chan also trained in other styles of martial arts such as Karate, Judo, Taekwondo and Jeet Kune Do.
@@rusdanibudiwicaksono1879 I appreciate this historical clarification about wrestling and carnivals.
@@TheSeeking2know This is actually just half-remembered facts from a wrestling documentary I watch in the past, so please take it with some salt and please do your own research if you interested in these stuff.
And thank you.
I really appreciate your videos, your arguments are carefully constructed and exceptionally attentive to context. Thank you, I learn a lot and they make me think more deeply!
It's more entertaining, and was intended for that reason. Much respect for Jackie's contributions to the entertainment industry. I also had to add that he almost died twice from doing his own stunts, he is a legend.
Yes he almost died numerous times due to him doing it without a double. Sadly there is still a person who still call that "fake". Do you have to wait that Jacky Chan will be dead doing movies before you call his kung fu genuine?
Agreed, I wouldn't want to fight Jackie chan at all, he'd probably do some drunken fist til my death. Lol :D
8:16 i know it is staged, but that guy voiding the flurry of spear thrusts looks awesome!
Aye, awesome, and of appreciable skill from both participants!
No matter how fake and staged that thing was, it was fucking scary!
Yeah it was staged but the DANGERS ARE REAL! That's what many people don't get.
Its a staged setting but the Thrusts are real and the Event is Extremely dangerous
People need to understand that every martial art has a different purpose and comes from a different time and culture which shaped it. Comparing kung fu to mma is like comparing your smartphone to telephones a hundred years ago. The old phones aren't "fake". They simply come from a different time and were meant for a different purpose.
Jakie Chan's kung fu is NOT fake. It's an authentic and real display of how people were fighting in ancient china. It's an interesting display of history and culture. People who compare that to mma and come to the conclusion that it's fake simply have a quite naive and narrow minded point of view on martial arts.
Also.. if mma is so street efficient.. why are there no intentional groin strikes, eye pokes or biting allowed? Because those are absolutely golden techniques in selfdefense! See? It's all about the purpose and background of a martial art. Which is why it's kind of pointless to compare them. If you wanna compare something, then compare different schools of a certain style. Compare fighters of a certain style. But across styles it makes little sense.
@Mugen00 Kung Fu, Tai Chi, Daoist practices like Qigong etc. AREN'T for self defense (in many cases) and (usually) DON'T state that they are. The Tai Chi the old people do in the park (not Sanda or Push hands) is advertised as being FOR HEALTH and not for martial purposes.
Very well worded and presented essay mate. Really enjoyed your articulate explanation of the different genre of Kung Fu as art and fighting forms. It is sad that there are so many charletans and the blatantly ignorant out there spreading mis-information and causing such devisive narratives and actions. A fantastic piece of work.
I believe Jacky is even more dangerous in an actual fight
ULTIMATE COORDINATOR everyone is.
Nope, he's a Hong Kong cinema legend 5th best after Lau Kar Leung, Sammo Hung, Yuen Woo Ping and Bruce Lee. Lau was the real deal as was Bruce. Sammo and Jackie has some real knowledge but never specialised. Sammo was a more serious student.
@@Grandmastergav86 who tf told you? Don't make your own list. Bruce Lee was top second was Jackie Chan as his unique fighting style with different combinations of martial arts. Third was Donnie Yen his MMA skills with combination of wushu Fourth was Sammo hung, and Fifth was Jet Li Sixth was Sammo Hung About Lau Kar-yeung. He was kinda faster but not matchable with Bruce Lee's speed. He had nothing combat skills rather than just Kung Fu while all the guys above (except Jet Li) knew other martial arts such as Boxing and other and if combined all it would make MMA. Yeun biao was also on the top ten list.
Even you train manly for showfight. Any good Showfighter knows about his effektness if he should go in a real fight. Of course in a real fight they are dangerous and good. Also can do Fullcontaktprofis deliver a good show. Both is tuff business. Only a few have the mental and physical strength to make a living from it.
If people believe that actors can be best fighters , then i guess every gymnasts and ballet dancers could beat up any mma fighters . While the skills of gymnastics and ballet are can be very useful ,if not completely necessary for the world of fighting ( since all these sports deals with movement ) , well they are still different sports . Actors and performances are not the same thing as cage fights , gymnastics is not ballet . Bruce Lee was great and all but when you see him punch bags and compare that to kickboxers , it isn't really that great . Plus his mixing the arts stick was already done by fighting legends before Bruce was born , like Jack Dempsey ( a legendary boxer who trained in submission wrestling ) and Farmer Burns ( a legendary submission wrestler who was beating boxers ) .
Like Jackie himself said, about his stunts looking good:
"It's not good, you can do it." His best scenes were about repeating it until it looked flawless, trial and error. He has always been honest about his films being just that, films.
*Entertainment.*
yours is now one of my favorite channels. Thank you!
This was super cool, informative. I learned and enjoyed the video.
"You jus dont kick ass... You have to look good doing it."
That's Bruce Lee's story again: sure, their moves are for show, but oh man, I wouldn't recommend you fight with them lol
Exactly, most of these guys are more in shape and can do feats of movement that most people can't.
Yes against trained fighters it might a different story, but when a trained actor is a trained fighter too, well, you can call his movies fake, but you can't call him fake.
Agreed. It's so stupid when people say Bruce can't fight. "He's just an actor". The guy invented MMA and trained every single day. He's very fast, very fit, and very flexible. Just those three things alone would make him someone you wouldn't want to mess with, and the same applies to Jackie.
@@ashchaya7676 Bruce Lee was a fighter first and an actor second, he only got into movies to show of his martial arts and teach people his philosophy which is why his famous movies were practical and had lesson in them. They were much different than the martial arts movies of his time where they were all stylized based around a style with a cool name
@@aaronrumph3291 Well spoken sir!
Most the other martial artists were actors, but that being said you can usually tell if they take martial arts seriously in their films, Donnie Yen brought MMA to the big screen and devoted a half a year to learn a martial art for a movie role. Jackie Chan did many different types of martial arts in his movies, there is an obvious love for martial arts in these stars that you won't see in a straight actress like Michelle Yeoh that learned enough just to be able to look good on the camera showing her dedication to her role not to martial arts
Found your channel while youtubing jackie chan clips. love your Ip Man and jackie videos so far
I freakin love your channel. I love the fresh perspective you bring to these things.
Correction: Stephen chow was a wing chun practitioner when he was young.....however, he was not dedicated as how Bruce Lee and Donnie Yen were due to his specialty in comedic genre film...
Alot of hk or chinese actors in the past needed kung fu as prerequisite
Wait he practiced Wing Chun? Cool... But aside from wing chun, was there any other disciplines he practiced or trained in?
Stephen Chow > Jackie Chan
@@abnerfilio27 in comedy yes yes he is greater then Jackie
Stephen Chow is one funny fucker i like all his movies except one I didnt care for Kung Pow and Betty lol im sure not too many ppl did but I think he knew that too and came out with Kung Fu Hustle which is beautifully done and made me laugh so hard and then the journey to the west movies :P Great
I once heard Keanu Reeves in an interview say "don't dare attack those old people doing slow tai chi moves in the park". LOL
You'd be surprised how true that is. Tai Chi looks easy but after my uncle taught me how, it requires so much body control and balance that you already have a mental advantage in combat.
I've been in a fight against 4 knife wielding opponents before and came out unharmed. I'd love to say that they were experienced gangsters but they're nothing more than a couple of emotional teenagers (I was 25 at the time) and being the calm person turns 5 flailing monkeys into 4 flailing monkeys and a person simply reacting to their overreactions.
Edit:
I like to note that I was completely cornered and no-one should ever try and win a fight against people with knives... I'm extremely lucky to say the least
did you also dodge a bullet, give the guy a good night sleep and bake bread while standing on one toe all at the same time?
@@versionstar4352 Lol. Yeah, how did you know? Did you also train at Shaolin Monastery?
@@wizicozypher had a pretty long fight with 6 teenagers, one of which had a knife. I was 17. My father taught me southern style shaolin and wing chin as well as some other stuff (tai chi, baguazhang, and a native American tribal fighting style he learned growing up on a reservation.) After what seemed like a very long time, I was beginning to tire and they were all bruised and scraped up from repeatedly being tossed to the pavement and the knife was tossed a great distance away after I took it. I may have been in serious trouble if it had continued but the shop owner of the local convenience store we were fighting in front of came out with a gun and chased them all off.
Point being: if I had not been as heavily trained in martial arts, I would likely have been killed or seriously injured. (Also if I had kept my mouth shut and gotten out of there sooner I could have avoided getting surrounded) kung fu is still very practical for self defense but many situations can be avoided rather than fought out. Now some fighting styles can make you pretty dangerous in a few short months but kung fu takes many years to master and requires self control and dedication. I could have killed some of those kids that attacked me but I didn't. When you start training at 6 and maintain a steady regiment for over 10 years then you can say that. I am now 37. I can still kick over my height and still posses the reflexes and stability but I don't think I could survive that same fight today. (But I have the wisdom to avoid it if I were confronted with it.)
As for the others who laugh at this stuff and think people like us are just boasting and want to impress people, I have never used martial arts to show off or impress anyone (other than my sifu) and I sincerely hope you never pick a fight with someone because of this. It would be very unwise.
@@davidmaurer8664 bru are u for real if u are respect 🙏🙌🙌🙌
Great overview and explanation ! Love your channel.
I think you might be my favorite creator on UA-cam. You always tell a story with your videos, and you use a lot of impactful logic to speak about your points
This is a great lesson to learn!
Yes, movie fighting is staged, but it's not like it doesn't take training!
Also, Kung fu is AWESOME!
I train in karate, and among all 3 sections i am trained at ( sport sparring, real combat and kata or training exercise), love the real combat most (quite a adrealine junkie i am), but the hardest part is kata, it is not just long, have alot of pose, but you have to make it real, both you breath when you move, your power when make each pose, the precision to match every stance, but at the same time, you must known how to pull you attack in time, so that you will not ruin the pose, that take a lot of stamina (a 20 step kata some time feel like 2 minute of real combat, and you must do it over and over till the kata is perfect) and skill (since the precision in each stance is absolute, have no time to stop to figure out or remember each move, if you do, you have to do the kata all over against). But after each time i complete a kata, i do feel like already master a stance or skill in both real combat and sport sparring
So, what the point of this text wall, that is even kata, and performance kung-fu are not that practical, they are still take huge amough of effort, furthermore they are art, the practical side is not that require, so they deserve our respect and love
Yup. Did Karate to for some time. I learned that when learning the style is very different to the fighting. Even in when I was in Kung Fu classes when I was 10. We learned forms and choreographies, but when sparring it looked like an actual Kick Boxing fight. No forms, no beauty, just direct striking to defeat your oponent.
Yup. Did Karate to for some time. I learned that when learning the style is very different to the fighting. Even in when I was in Kung Fu classes when I was 10. We learned forms and choreographies, but when sparring it looked like an actual Kick Boxing fight. No forms, no beauty, just direct striking to defeat your oponent.
And even still, Kata as a tool for combative strategies (since that is what kata and forms traditionally were, a way for students to practice ideas on how to use techniques and tactics for combat, by themselves) is useless for self defense applications, if one is not taught the bunkai and oyo (analysis and application) of the moves in the Kata. However, as simply a mental and physical training tool in traditional martial arts, forms have their place, just as do various types of sparring drills and self defense training.
I've boxed, done MT, and BJJ then transitioned to some MMA. BJJ is by far the most useful especially in real fights. Karate... is basically worthless.
In my opinion kata is simply a form of practice to build up muscle memory and conditioning for real combat. Its the equivalent of shadow boxing for boxers. Yea! every "fighting style" is fake until you get your ass kicked.
This may be off-topic, but I lived near Chinatown in San Francisco, and when I first moved there, I thought it was a bit odd that older Chinese residents practiced tai-chi in the park every day. By the time I moved away ten years later, I not only understood the purpose, but had profound respect for the people exercising in the park. It made perfect sense! When we get old, we lose mobility and don’t move enough - but not those tai-chi practitioners in the park! If I was going to stay in San Francisco, I would have probably joined them.
DUDE YOUR VIDEOS ARE SO GOOD.... informative, entertaining, educational, insightful..... and very very well done. Thank you and please keep them coming.
I always liked Jackie Chan for putting forward a good message, for kids and for people in general.
Martial arts or not - be a decent person, first. ;)
Its a shame he isnt a good person
@@catch.22 anybody cant be a good person to everyone.
@@catch.22 is there any background context I should know for why did you make such claims?
@@catch.22 is there any background context I should know for why did you make such claims?
@@basshibiki TL;DR: I think it's politics.
Quick google search had shown me articles claiming, that Jackie Chan isn't very popular amongst liberally minded Chinese people for his staunch support of Chinese government. Which by many accounts seems to be very oppressive, restrictive and insecure government. A lot like Russian one, but harsher in some regards.
And some of the things Jackie Chan said don't look very good...
It doesn't necessary make him a bad person, but I can see, how an artist with a lot of goodwill and charisma can cause a tremendous harm by providing an open support to such a government. =(
As someone who has headassedly complained about martial arts not being 'practical' when I was younger this video was totally eye opening for me and I want to say thank you for sharing your culture this way :) Love your videos and can't wait to learn more
Martial arts like kung fu can be super duper practically you know, but those shown on TV could care less about one punching people in the gut to their death (which a guy did back then but was poisoned cuz he got too many enemies) but about looking gorgeous.
@@kugelblitzingularity304 yeah ignorant people can't separate show martial arts from combat martial arts
Thanks for defending Chans legacy and the others that put this much work into their art!
Loved all the shout outs! Especially Donnie Yen while he was using Wing Chun. A beautiful style and a great person to reintroduce it.
As someone who has practiced kung fu when I was living in hong kong, I agree with this video. My sifu did teach both sides of the art and it's very noticeable how different it can be. I only practiced the artful forms, but fellow students who did do sparring matches, treated it more like kickboxing than the more graceful exaggerated forms. It's not the say the forms don't have a basis in actual combat, but they become quicker and have a shorter "throw". That is to say, a shorter tell. There is a move where I throw my arms in a kind of pinwheeling move over my head with straight arms. The first arm is a potential block or attack, with a followup block or attack from the second arm. A more combat oriented version would have shortened that a great deal, at most elbow length rather than the full arm.
Thinking on it, I think this is why I enjoy martial art movies so much more than western action movies. Not only do they adjust the camera work to give the martial art some much need breathing room, but the flowery, exaggerated moves are just pleasing to the eyes. Compare that to western movies where it's close up shots and fast editing, that at best sell it as a fight scene, and at worst sell it as a confusing mess.
The way I understand it is the exaggerated form training functions as a solid precursor to elements of combat training - it builds upon muscle memory, muscle strength, and body mechanic understanding. The flowery movements almost always have combat application, and while you should never go so deep and exaggerated for an actual fight, you would have the training to adapt as deep as can be required. That said, form training is moves in the air with envision targets... As much as it lends into sparring training, the difference is still extremely wide. Knowing the moves, and being able to effectively apply the moves spontaneously, is a large leap of difference.
In my school's sparring, muscle memory from form work pops in all the time, but the basic 3-punch combo remains universally best focus.
Man I keep seeing Kung Fu dudes get beat by normal guys.
Yep, Jaki Chan also doesnt like the western styles fight scenes, and i remeber him saying "When i do fight scenes, fixed camera, wide angle" which is the exact opposite of western style, which i prefer cause its easier to follow than quick cuts and jumps
@@phillip_iv_planetking6354ok but that's not what we are talking about?
@@mcslender2965 I know.
But why learn something that has no benefit for defense or even fighting at all?
I've been training wushu for the last ten years and I've internally struggled with this concept for a long time. Really cool to hear an external intelligent opinion on the matter! I feel a little less bad about dancing around with a sword on a carpet now ;)
do what you love man
there is nothing wrong with wushu, the only problem is those con-men who claim their kungfu can beat other martial art easily
Good job. I studied a bit of Wushu years ago, and it's a lot more physically demanding than it's given credit for. Massive respect to you for sticking with it.
I trained wushu/sanshu you're just weak...kung fu is very effective if you find a good master that challenges it art.....and wushu has 2 concepts demonstration and combat.
Try fan dance.
This is an amazing video. Thank you for putting in the effort at making it.
What contest is the footage at 5:40 from?
This has some relevance to European sport fencing (foil, epee, sabre) compared to stage/film fencing. Sport fencing rarely looks pretty, which is one of several reasons why although still one of the original (modern) Olympic sports it doesn't sell well to audiences. And it doesn't look pretty, because it's meant to be purely functional. Now, is it functional at its original goal of training people to hit without being hit? Ehhhhhh.... theoretically yes, but stylistic differences have been developed partly to keep from really killing or crippling the opponent, and partly because sometimes a strike form dedicated to putting an opponent out of the fight permanently turns out to be LESS efficient than how you should strike if you're trying to score a point.
(The art of flicking the "point' of your weapon onto a target area for example: even if it hits for the theoretical force necessary for the damage you're theoretically looking for, the rationale is a little different because in a sport duel you're trying to convince the electrics that you got the point while leaving yourself more options for defense and recovery if you mess up somehow. In a real fight, that's a good consideration, too, but if it results in just tapping the other guy you might regret it in the long run! Relatedly, in a real fight "the long run" is practically always a regret. {wry g} Whereas in sport fencing, each side is delivering nominally fight-ending shots several times in one duel, so you've got to be able to go the distance and manage your energy output so you don't tire out and become an easy target for the other guy, with more reserves, to come back for the win.)
None of that has much bearing on "show" fencing, designed for stage or film, which really is choreography. You need big, slow, easy-to-see (and film!) beats which minimize risk to the other guy while still conveying (possibly real) danger.
Finally, someone who knows what he's talking about. Thanks for explaining things.
Compare also with HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts), which seeks to move away from both the showy styles and the sport styles back to practicing the historical combat styles that originated for the battlefield or duels as genuinely as possible without seriously injuring participants.
@@PrinceofArfon Society for Creative Anacrhonisms?
Jason Pratt I believe there is overlap. I’m not part of either group, although I do hope to join a local HEMA academy before long. My understanding is that SCA is a living history group focused on selectively studying and re-enacting aspects of medieval and Renaissance culture, whereas HEMA groups practice just the martial arts of the same time periods, treating them as martial arts rather than sports.
Great points. Only some lunges would suit a real duel, and of course in old longsword and other sword treatises we see how to get in and cut people open, impale, etc. This is quite different to fencing and point scoring, and even more different to performance.
There was a Japanese sengoku era war film that showed a rather interesting samurai fighting. He would overpower his opponents, force them down, and roughly cut their throats. Not pretty, not fencing, but would it work? Probably closer to realism.
The thing to remember about martial arts, is that one of the two words that makes it up is ART.
Yeah, nice observation, too bad u completely miss the other word "Martial" which comes from the word Mars- the roman god of war. And yes, Martial Arts is a western concept if u use those exact words to describe it since Mars is again a Roman God. Tho i dont blame u for not knowing. Until i saw a certain video from the "Metatron" i didint realized it was refering to the Roman God either, i thought it was refering to the planet which made no sense to me.
I truly loved this video.
I have been educated on things that I thought I knew!
Thanks.
Thank you for this. I think it's particularly interesting to see how the "real fighters" don't look effective in movies, because they learned combat rather than acting. And the actors look more effective, because they mastered operatic fight dancing rather than combat. And this hold true across both western and eastern actors / fighters and their respective styles. Modern 'Kung Fu' is taught for it's dance and presentation, and has been since the boxer rebellion brutally ended it's utility in warfare. But we see individuals like Bruce Lee took the 'art' back to the 'street' and in so doing helped inspire the modern MMA movement, even as many who now admire that have 'cultural disdain' for the man who started their discipline.
Whenever I hear someone tell me that "x martial art is useless and ineffective in a fight" I always like to tell them with a smile:
"Ya know the Gracie family? The family that created your beloved Brazilian Jiu-jistu? Yeah, four of them lost to a pro wrestler."
It always make them really, really mad.
are we talking about a wrestler from WWE? or real wrestlers that learn the art for fighting??
@@myelle1246 it was Sakuraba, a guy who did train in catch wrestling in high school, but his predominent training was in japanese pro wrestling.
It's a silly jab since for a group of people who state about mixing arts, they're extremely opinionated when it comes to different styles of martial arts. Not you, personally, but you'll see tons of people still saying karate is useless even after multiple high level UFC fighters using it as their main.
Don't forget to mention that helio Gracie got his as whipped by a judo guy back in the days.
Jackie Chan tries to incorporate comedy into his fighting, hence the reason why he uses props. But also think about it. It actually very realistic as well. Because in real life, if you were fighting someone, or was about to fight someone that had a weapon or was just crazy. You would want to grab a chair, or anything to defend yourself, no matter how good you might be at a martial arts, I wouldn't want to trust my self to use that to win, or subdue the opponent. I would trust using my surrounding and things in my surrounding to slow down or subdue my attacker. I think if Jackie Chan was to get in a fight with a person in real life, he would try to talk it down, or just try to stop the attack as soon as possible. No fancy kicks or punches. Just solid hit like in boxing and kick boxing. Just look at any fighting style to day that is used in competitive arenas. They are all based around trying to win the fight as soon as possible. So boxing, Kick boxing, Muay Thai, and many others revolve around using powerful attacks to win fights.
Well jackie chan does his own stunts
@@mayuravirus6134 Oh yea I'm not saying he doesn't. And he help to creat the fight scenes you watch
Just a stunt man .
He's really the Buster Keaton of martial arts films,the comic relief. Most martial films are often very serious. He found his niche doing comedic Kung Fu films. Even Raymond Chow told him it was "his thing". It's actually refreshing to watch. Besides I don't want to fight a guy that can fall 2 stories through a table an get back up. What could you possibly do to him?
The Props are because he the father of Hardcore Parkour and well you try running around in china jumping over shit in china :P
and yes it would be realistic if I use a "Prop" (baseball bat) and use it in a fight :P
Also Muay Thai has a rule to fight any challenger no matter how big
I love this video and I regularly come back to it.
I came to this video knowing NOTHING about the subject matter and I was nearly crying by the end
Someone said to me once, Jackie Chan's moves are always made with entertainment in mind. They're goofy, slapstick-y, acrobatic. Entertaining.
Meanwhile, Donnie Yen and Jet Li's moves are more in line with "actual martial arts" because yes, they actually are masters who also happen to be actors. Jackie Chan is more like an acrobat.
But that doesn't mean he's any less skillful in his trade. They're 2 different approach to kungfu but they're all awesome.
It also depends on personal preference. It's not that Jackie Chan can't do what Donnie Yen and Jet Li (physically) or vice versa, it's that Jackie Chan likes comedy and takes inspiration from Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin as much as he does from traditional kung fu. Jackie Chan has said he wants his on-screen fighting to be beautiful like a dance because otherwise it's just violence. Donnie Yen and Jet Li clearly prefer an approach that's a bit more, well, not realistic but exciting? I.e. Jackie Chan emphasizes the comedy and the impressive choreography, while Donnie Yen and Jet Lie emphasize the thrill and the action.
I love Jackie Chan films, but they rarely have me on the edge of my seat. I rarely think Jackie's character is in any danger, because that's not the point.
On the other hand when I watch Donnie Yen and Jet Li they sell me on the danger. I'm invested and think they might actually get hurt, but I don't laugh as much.
Jackie has some serious movies, though. Police Story is one of them. I think that's what it's called.
@@DissectingThoughts Jet Li is a martial arts Champion. Jackie is a hard working dude from a martial arts school.
Jackie is smaller than most people, so him holding a pocket is very unlikely, so yes I wouldn’t want to run into anything he can fire
@John Saf yes.
People be like: Jackie Chan can’t fight because he is an actor.
Me: Yes he is an actor but don’t you think he can use those movements he learned in the Opera against you?
And we all know how tough Jackie Chan is
He is a stuntman before he is an actor. You can call him lucky but dont call him fake martial artist like those majority in modern movies. If you are from south east or east asia you will know how tough life is 1970s to 1980s, they have amazing dedication to their jobs. If you are bunch of weakling they wont even hire you as a stuntman. it is not something that people now a days will understand easily. He is an amazing guy.
@@gl4re kungfu tarining is just for show cannot stand before mma fight unless skill full talented with real world experiance uses it
Most of the hyped up kungfu masters are just similar dancers in drama troop
Like jaitly or donnie
You got tge point. Actor --> material art is fake is so fucking stupid. Even you learn Material art, you have to train yourself, right? And there are so many levels of training. It makes your skill be "fake" or "real". People can say pro westling is fake too, but i dare anybody challenge a fight with any wrestler
You sabi jhoor
Great video great channel
People being able to "tap" opponents without hurting them is really just mindblowing! Slightly less OMG but still pretty amazing: imagine being the actor who can control their flinch reaction and trust their castmate and just *let* themselves be tapped.
I wonder if my complete boredom with typical action movie fight scenes is due to what you mentioned about there not being this degree of training and ability in most actors... or if it's just a matter of different choreo tastes.
i will never understand why realism needs to be a thing in movies
I'm always bothered by that, too. In both movies and games.
It's like, my life sucks already, let me forget that for 2 hours in the theatre, please.
Probably because life, for most of the people who complain, isn't "real" enough 😁
@@AccentedCinema I think , I have simple explanation for this. Realism in Art&Expression (Movies here) does not mean realistic to mundane life but to represent Expression for us in believable form (to blur the line between fantasy and reality) , I also think that Realism is used to set up rules in fictional world. Sergio Leone movies are great example for this , he made highly exaggerated gunfights and at the same time they are highly realistic especially in the case of The Good The Bad The Ugly's final Mexican Standoff. Other example is the artwork from Europe , there is a Bronze Greek Statue about a boxer but this statue does not represent specific boxer but a general idea about boxer (broken nose and teeth , muscular body), so here is the question is the Statue of Boxer being closed to reality ,the answer is yes , is this statue imaginary (fantasy), the answer is again yes , the case is also similar in Renaissance Art . I think Realism in movies is a form of Artistic Expression which varies from artist to artist. So when people said that this movie lack Realism ,they are actually not connected with the world that the artist had created.
Seriously, I think it's because of the rise of the gaming culture in the new generation after Gen X. Before PlayStation and Xbox became the default nannies for kids, TV was the king and most kids acted out their fantasies in real life after soaking in all the adventure and excitement that TV and movies generated. It fired up their imagination and made them pursue their passions in real life, because TV and movies back then we're not yet interactive and reality TV was still relatively new. Kids had no control over the narrative or the direction of the shows. The artists who created the shows were in control. And kids had to accept the ending however happy or sad it was. When reality TV and the video games started to boom, it changed the dynamics. The next generation now grew up in a new geek culture where they had a say in how the adventure ended. They had control over their interactive experience and many saw no need to go out into the real world and live out their fantasies by pursuing them the hard way, which is usually spent in years of working their way up the ladder, taking risks and experiencing multiple real life failures before they reach their goals. Why wait and do all that when they could just stay at home and fight in Afghanistan as a special forces soldier or explore other planets as a Jedi on their computer consoles and have what is supposed to take years of experience crammed into just a few hours of interactive experience with a console in the safety of your home. If you fail or die, you just go to your last saved game and press the replay button. So now they see a movie and they bitch and moan about how inaccurate it is because they are so used to the "realism" shown in their favorite video games which helps make their experience in living out their fantasies online more real. The older generations gets it, movie is an escape from the mundane life, while the new generations don't get it because they already have an escape in their video and online games and it has become the standard by which they judge other forms of entertainment by, be it movies or music(I believe most kids nowadays are introduced to classic 70s, 80s and 90s music through video games). So the short answer is, blame the video games.
So john wick should of shot some guys 500m away with a handgun to avoid being too realistic? Or shot more bullets then his clip holds? Or dodge bullets? Its called context some movies are supposed to be as realistic as possible others not so much to simply say you have a problem with realism in movies is ridiculous i mean dont watch realistic movies if it bothers you watch fast & furious if you like impossible unrealistic crap
Pretty sure if Jackie's fighting is "real" or not he can DEFINITELY kick ANYONE'S ass that says otherwise XD
It's funny how your average couch potatoe thinks he can take on someone like Jackie Chan
Well you're wrong. Ask Chan himself. He'd laugh at the idea that he could kick 'anyone's ass'.
You're commentary was well done and made it clear on both sides. thank you
This was very informative watching it again. Your channel is needed in these online discourses to expand our understanding to include the Chinese/Asian side rather than just the Western. I love the use of WWE wrestling as a good metaphor - obviously very physically able men and women following scripts to enact dramatic stories over time for an audience (just like in the movies).
There is an unfortunate air of arrogance and indirect mocking I sometimes see from some MMA fighters towards both martial arts in movies and even traditional martial arts.
Movies are movies. They are meant to move and elicit emotional responses and take you on a journey or an arc you can internalize and participate in. Keanu Reeves being able to shoot guns well is the exact same as Jackie Chan or Scott Adkins doing flips and throwing acrobatic kicks. Is Gun-fu a real thing? No. But it looks cool. Can Keanu go to war or become a part of a special police or special forces unit right now? Probably not. But it's a mix of actual high-level skill presented in a controlled fantasy setting. At the same time Keanu can shoot and hit his targets and so can Jackie Chan, Scott, or any other movie performers. That's the idea: to sell the story.
I did appreciate that the MMA fighters I referred to were reacting to online comments from super-fans of movies about calling their favourite on-screen martial arts movie stars some of the best fighters in the world, and being "rewarded" with praise and adulation and being compared to competitive fighters.
Everything should be understood for what it is and what purpose it serves. When we do this we let them be and don't feel the need to point fingers. If there is active intention to deceive people with unreal or untested martial arts in the real world, then that should be called out definitely, since there is a risk of real harm to people who go into real fights with false hopes from their "masters".
Martial Artists - a very strong finish. It's interesting to me how the 'showmanship' element has many parallels to theories of animation in how exaggerating windup and follow through is what makes motion have weight. I suppose it shouldn't be that surprising as they are essentially accomplishing the same thing - making something intangible feel like it's more than that. Splendid piece!
Could use a few more men getting thrown through tables though. I'm just gonna replay that part for a bit... ahhhhh~
I'm pretty sure Jackie Chan can still fight!
he could kick my ass for sure, probably with like a garden hose
@@One.Zero.One101 lol
@@One.Zero.One101 Ryback swole
Yes
@@One.Zero.One101 My co-worker who has a purple belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu told me that in a real street fight, anything goes, anybody can knock anybody out. He personally witnessed his friend, who trained in MMA get KO'd in 2 punches by a scrawny guy who had no formal martial arts training. The guy was just flailing and landed 2 punches into the face of the MMA guy knocking him out cold.
Amazing! Thank you for a new perspective.
Thanks for your insight on this video. I recently had seen for the first time some of Jackie’s best work in “Wheels on Meals”, namely his fight against Benny Urquidez, and I am in awe of the choreography done there.
The term 'kung fu' (or 'gung fu') literally means 'achievement through great effort'.
so jacky chen kungfu is real
It’s chan
@@Korrupt27 it's chen, in chinese, sadly. Technically He changed his name to make western call him easier but no matter what it's still not the right sound.
His original family name was Lhong, Long, whatever you want to call it but English can't pronounce his name.
His chan is more of Chern-Shern but well, as long as we know who we're talking about then it's fine.
Call him IKEA master if you want. We know who that is.
@@Vertutame It's the same thing. Chan is just cantonese spelling. And his real name is Chan Kongsang. His chinese stage name is Sing Lung.
i was expecting the quote "i know kung fu" from Neo
missed opportunity tbh
Damn it!!
Even if its fake or inneffective, it contributed A LOT not only to modern cinema but also to sports.
awesome video essay as usual!
Good vid, when someone tells me something "You know Kung Fu is fake. right?" I reply with "You know it's only a movie, right?"
*watching kung fu movie* "You know kung fu is fake, right?" "Movies are fake?!" :Surprised Pikachu:
U have never seen Olympics it seems
@@jahmaldinmudarib8317 There is no kung fu in the olympics. You're thinking of judo.
That's right, the martial are adapted to entertainment in movies and that differs from self defense.
I bet a mugger would get a rude awakening though if they attacked Jackie Chan, Yuen Biao or Sammo Hung in their prime.
Funny enough....I think they would be fine.
Only Tony Jaar and Donnie Yen might give a mugger problems due to Jaar's Thai boxing and Yen's mma.
Sammo would be the most dangerous during his prime. Most people tend to underestimate his speed and power when they look at his fat frame. As for Jackie, as long as there are no furniture or inanimate objects around, they might stand a chance. But inside a phone booth, he'd be deadly.
John Lloyd Dy The dude could box quite well. His 90s physique was a great. Such speed and explosive power.
@@johnlloyddy7016 I was always amazed at how fast Sammo could move. Always seemed to keep up with Jackie (at least on screen).
@@kyle9401 They were mates at the opera school, they trained together from childhood.
People who disliked this don't know, read, written or seen an essay.
What's the movie at 2:06 called?
Love your vids! I never really looked at it this way. :D
Had no idea about the connection between movie Kung fu and Beijing opera. Thanks for the great video!
5:25, I've always said this about Silva's striking. The impact never looks that devastating in real time or in the replays YET the opponent drops like a sack of bricks. I think he just mastered getting maximum impact with minimum wind up.
Very nice video. And you're right. People get stuck in their thoughts where they think a person can only be one thing, while.. Really. You can be both a great stage fighter and a great normal fighter. Some of the various skills, techniques and practices even carry over. Jackie isn't on screen to fight, he's there to entertain and amaze us.
In Saitama words *"martial art is fighting with flashy moves"*
@@guildjayarts7958 you really want a debate on what an "animated character" said?
Saitama is right lol
Lmao that’s my favourite line
I kinda agree with this. 😂
@@johnal3890 but hes right tho
These vids are superb! You are doing a great job man! Im a fan!
This reminds me of animation class anticipation, fast action and posing, Thank you so much i learn a lot.
i found your channel a couple weeks ago and have fallen in love with your videos, especially as an asian-american, i've never seen anyone explain and understand movies in such a familiar but articulate way, bravo, please continue!