Hey James, just wanted to say thanks for the great videos. I've picked out a few to help me with my drum mixes and I think they got a little better :D You are very good at explaining things! Keep up the great work!
Forgive me if I am ignorant, but I thought the slower attack time meant the snappier and punchier sound compared to the faster attack time, since it passes more initial transient....
Yes! You’re right. And I’m right. A super-fast attack will grab the transient before any of it gets through, so slowing it down would let more of the transient through. But in that range between ~1 ms and 20ms, the slower it is, the thicker the transient will be. But faster than 1ms, there won’t be much of any transient at all, so slowing it down from there does make it snappier.
Hi my name tado from indonesia. I watched all your video and all are great. Thanks for sharing with us and God bless you sir.. Lately i mixing live streaming for GPDI MARANATHA MEDAN,. If you not mind, can u listen to that and give me inputs? I really need it from you to improve my knowledge about all of these. And last, how i can download "how to lead your church sound team"? Thank you so much sir.. i appreciate you so much.
There are tones and "shapes" that you can only get with compression, whether it's a live drum or a sample from an electronic kit, so yes, I'll compress even if it's electronic drums. I'll aim for about -6dBFS on the kick drum, unless I've got plenty of subs and don't need it quite that hot. A lot of times drummers need a lot more gain in their monitors than I need at FOH, so I'll run those preamps a little hotter than everything else.
The attack times may differ from compressor to compressor? Or is there a rule of thumb when shaping the drums with compression? How about the release times?
Different compressors have varying auto-attack times, or ways they respond to transients vs average levels, but many plain-Jane digital compressors like those found built-in to consoles rely on the same ms attack and release times, so they’ll all be in the same ballpark. The rule of thumb is that too fast = no transient left; and too slow means you’ll let all the transient through and the compressor acts too late. Release time depends on the attack time for what it’ll do, but a fast release will bring up the very short tail of the ring of the drum, while a slower release brings back up the later parts of the sustain, which can either feel natural or unnatural, depending on the drum’s tone.
Man these are great. Overheads seem to be the most tricky in terms of options with EQ (steep high pass or no?), Mic placement (timing issues from the snare, polarity, etc), and then what you have shown here in the compression. I've been told my drums were very electronic sounding in the past (I'm the drummer so I can't hear them FoH, also stuck in the cage) so I really want to keep digging in here. What would you do with overheads in a drum cage that has a very low ceiling?
Thanks Kyle! Does the drum cage ceiling have absorption on it? And I'm not really sure what the electronic drums sounding means from live drums. Are the heads deadened a lot? Or is the drum cage treated acoustically to the point that the drums sound really dry, and just need a small room reverb to sound normal? If you've only got a few cymbals, you can try miking them from beneath and rolling up the HPF to 1-2kHz so they don't get a lot of bleed from the other drums. Or lean more toward the Jesus-Culture method like I talk about in my drum mic tutorial. If you've got limited space, you've gotta do what you can to maximize it.
Yeah that thick absorbing material. Pretty dry cage as well. I think the close mics above will be the way to go. How worried are you about the timing distance, and polarity with snare when you are rolling up the high-pass to only really catch the cymbals? - I guess this topic is more for the mic video 🤔
Great vidéo ! Thank you for the clear explaination! Can i ask if u use a beta 91 ? If no, is it possible to know which mic whith which placement (for the kick in) .. The sound is amazing!
I really enjoy that mic in combo with a kick out mic. Get a piece of foam or a blanket to set it on. Of course, there should be something dampening the drum heads inside there to begin with.
One request - please stop apologizing for asking questions! I'm here to teach; your questions fill in the gaps. Sustain is how long the drum "rings out" or produces tone after the initial hit (transient). On a kick or snare drum that's deadened pretty well, the sustain is short, which can help it feel punchy, but the compression's release time still affects how that quick part feels. For toms, I'll only compress if the drummer is really disciplined with his cymbal bashing, since I'm trying to avoid raising the noise floor on those. But if the cymbals are high and played with finesse, I'll use a similar approach on the attack time as the snare drum, trying to get more snap out of it with the attack, and use a little longer release time (like 100ms, rather than 50) to push up the sustain of the tom, or balance out the two pitches' relative levels in the pitch bend. But again, this is all really rare, because drummers love beating their cymbals too hard.
@@AttawayAudio but some people who they are is audio engineer like you or music producer said "all monotone percussion doesnt have any sustain, they just have release."
Your stuffs are so extraordinary of great help , please i need your advise of i should work out to improve my sound better because the system am using it's analog and am using 2 way graphic eq and one compressor for the entire equipment ,so i face hard time to avoid distortion and what compression would you advise me to set up if all the instrument are on the some compressor to have a clear sound ? or else what should i do
hey quick question what mics do you recommend for a entire drumset my church has one but its super banged up planning to buy a new one running the audio on a midas m32
The Audix drum mic package has never let me down. amzn.to/2SghdrT I also like a lot of the Shure mics, although the Beta 52 isn't my favorite on kick drum, unless I have a Beta 91 to go with it.
Overhead: AKG C414 both Rack tom and floor: Sennheiser e904 Snare top and bottom: shure sm57 Kick: shure beta 52A and sennheiser e901 for IEM Hi-hat and ride: shure KSM137
Hi when I mic my DW Bass Drum it sounds less then acceptable when compared to my "Steven Slate" VST plug-in with my V-drums. What do you/I use to process the raw bass drum recording and make it fat, round punchy etc? I have good mics but that's not the trick.
Great question! But it opens up more questions: Is it dampened well? What beater are you using in the pedal? Are you burying the beater, or letting it come off the head? (How you tune it depends on your beater technique) Where’s the mic placed? What preamp are you using? Are you dumping midrange like it’s nobody’s business? Getting all those right will help you get closer to the pro studio sound you’re getting from samples
@Don McIntyre I agree that if you dont have all of those aspects compression wont fix your mix. But, i will say that its compression that takes a pretty good mix to a polished and consistent mix. Small tonal changes per individual track exponentially multiply once added to an entire mix.
nope. when a guitar player or pianist hits a chord, do all the notes happen at the exact same time? nope. so it's ok if your drum mics aren't perfectly time-aligned.
I usually time align (delay) the FOH mix relative to the back line acoustic sound. This way the back line sound, (usually where the drums are) is heard at the same time as the FOH
@@JuzzyQld Have you had good luck with that? I've thought about doing that before, as my system is totally capable of it, but usually it's such a small amount idk if it'd be worth bothering with since the PA is only 10-ish feet in front of the back line for us, it's not like we're playing stadiums (just yet😉 ) lol.
@@AttawayAudio thank you, It's not my real name, i love old movies.. I watch your videos from italy, i'm italian, God bless you and thank you for your tutorials
3:39 "May your Bottom End always be Big and Round" nice subtle humor haha.
That's what I'm here for 😁
Hey James, just wanted to say thanks for the great videos. I've picked out a few to help me with my drum mixes and I think they got a little better :D You are very good at explaining things! Keep up the great work!
Awesome! It's a game of baby steps 😁
Thank you James for these videos really appreciate them. ❤
You’re welcome Sinekaya!
Thanx for this session is very helpful ❣️
Pls make a video on how to EQ PA system and how to setup stereo in ear monitor
Great job, James. You really have a wonderful way of teaching. Thank you so much :)
I like how your voice got chipmunky there for a sec
Thanks James for your video, it was very enlightening.
You’re welcome! Thanks for tuning in Ozeas!
God bless you brother
Another great video thanks!
Great video. do you have any suggestion adding compression on an electric drumkit. Is it the same as above? Thanks.
Great Video James! I love your stuff!
Thanks, Preston! Means a lot coming from a pro like you!
Forgive me if I am ignorant, but I thought the slower attack time meant the snappier and punchier sound compared to the faster attack time, since it passes more initial transient....
Yes! You’re right. And I’m right. A super-fast attack will grab the transient before any of it gets through, so slowing it down would let more of the transient through. But in that range between ~1 ms and 20ms, the slower it is, the thicker the transient will be. But faster than 1ms, there won’t be much of any transient at all, so slowing it down from there does make it snappier.
Thanks this was a super helpful video!
You're welcome, Michael!
Hi my name tado from indonesia. I watched all your video and all are great. Thanks for sharing with us and God bless you sir..
Lately i mixing live streaming for GPDI MARANATHA MEDAN,. If you not mind, can u listen to that and give me inputs? I really need it from you to improve my knowledge about all of these.
And last, how i can download "how to lead your church sound team"?
Thank you so much sir.. i appreciate you so much.
What's the song playing in the background? Something about "satisfied..."
niceeeee video -thankssssss !!!!!
Hi James. Quick question. Do you place your drums compressor pre- or post-EQ? And in what scenarios are pre-EQ compression applied?
0:32
How about for electronic drums (Roland, etc). Do you recommend applying compression? And what’s your peak meter when gain staging the kick? Thanks
There are tones and "shapes" that you can only get with compression, whether it's a live drum or a sample from an electronic kit, so yes, I'll compress even if it's electronic drums. I'll aim for about -6dBFS on the kick drum, unless I've got plenty of subs and don't need it quite that hot. A lot of times drummers need a lot more gain in their monitors than I need at FOH, so I'll run those preamps a little hotter than everything else.
The attack times may differ from compressor to compressor? Or is there a rule of thumb when shaping the drums with compression? How about the release times?
Different compressors have varying auto-attack times, or ways they respond to transients vs average levels, but many plain-Jane digital compressors like those found built-in to consoles rely on the same ms attack and release times, so they’ll all be in the same ballpark.
The rule of thumb is that too fast = no transient left; and too slow means you’ll let all the transient through and the compressor acts too late. Release time depends on the attack time for what it’ll do, but a fast release will bring up the very short tail of the ring of the drum, while a slower release brings back up the later parts of the sustain, which can either feel natural or unnatural, depending on the drum’s tone.
Man these are great. Overheads seem to be the most tricky in terms of options with EQ (steep high pass or no?), Mic placement (timing issues from the snare, polarity, etc), and then what you have shown here in the compression. I've been told my drums were very electronic sounding in the past (I'm the drummer so I can't hear them FoH, also stuck in the cage) so I really want to keep digging in here. What would you do with overheads in a drum cage that has a very low ceiling?
Thanks Kyle! Does the drum cage ceiling have absorption on it? And I'm not really sure what the electronic drums sounding means from live drums. Are the heads deadened a lot? Or is the drum cage treated acoustically to the point that the drums sound really dry, and just need a small room reverb to sound normal?
If you've only got a few cymbals, you can try miking them from beneath and rolling up the HPF to 1-2kHz so they don't get a lot of bleed from the other drums. Or lean more toward the Jesus-Culture method like I talk about in my drum mic tutorial. If you've got limited space, you've gotta do what you can to maximize it.
Yeah that thick absorbing material. Pretty dry cage as well. I think the close mics above will be the way to go. How worried are you about the timing distance, and polarity with snare when you are rolling up the high-pass to only really catch the cymbals? - I guess this topic is more for the mic video 🤔
Great vidéo ! Thank you for the clear explaination! Can i ask if u use a beta 91 ? If no, is it possible to know which mic whith which placement (for the kick in) .. The sound is amazing!
I really enjoy that mic in combo with a kick out mic. Get a piece of foam or a blanket to set it on. Of course, there should be something dampening the drum heads inside there to begin with.
I’m sorry for the question, but, what is “sustain” considered?
By the way, for the most part, how do you compress the toms?
One request - please stop apologizing for asking questions! I'm here to teach; your questions fill in the gaps. Sustain is how long the drum "rings out" or produces tone after the initial hit (transient). On a kick or snare drum that's deadened pretty well, the sustain is short, which can help it feel punchy, but the compression's release time still affects how that quick part feels.
For toms, I'll only compress if the drummer is really disciplined with his cymbal bashing, since I'm trying to avoid raising the noise floor on those. But if the cymbals are high and played with finesse, I'll use a similar approach on the attack time as the snare drum, trying to get more snap out of it with the attack, and use a little longer release time (like 100ms, rather than 50) to push up the sustain of the tom, or balance out the two pitches' relative levels in the pitch bend. But again, this is all really rare, because drummers love beating their cymbals too hard.
@@AttawayAudio but some people who they are is audio engineer like you or music producer said "all monotone percussion doesnt have any sustain, they just have release."
Your stuffs are so extraordinary of great help , please i need your advise of i should work out to improve my sound better because the system am using it's analog and am using 2 way graphic eq and one compressor for the entire equipment ,so i face hard time to avoid distortion and what compression would you advise me to set up if all the instrument are on the some compressor to have a clear sound ? or else what should i do
big topic, hard to diagnose over a comment. sorry! 🤷♂️
Great video!
hey thanks! 🙌
hey quick question what mics do you recommend for a entire drumset my church has one but its super banged up planning to buy a new one running the audio on a midas m32
The Audix drum mic package has never let me down. amzn.to/2SghdrT
I also like a lot of the Shure mics, although the Beta 52 isn't my favorite on kick drum, unless I have a Beta 91 to go with it.
@@AttawayAudio what do you think on a Shure 181c on toms?
Overhead: AKG C414 both
Rack tom and floor: Sennheiser e904
Snare top and bottom: shure sm57
Kick: shure beta 52A and sennheiser
e901 for IEM
Hi-hat and ride: shure KSM137
What does the console have to do with it?
@@JuzzyQld I forgot to mention that if he had any specific presets or effects on the x32 or M32 just wanted to hear from an expert
Hi when I mic my DW Bass Drum it sounds less then acceptable when compared to my "Steven Slate" VST plug-in with my V-drums. What do you/I use to process the raw bass drum recording and make it fat, round punchy etc? I have good mics but that's not the trick.
Great question! But it opens up more questions: Is it dampened well? What beater are you using in the pedal? Are you burying the beater, or letting it come off the head? (How you tune it depends on your beater technique) Where’s the mic placed? What preamp are you using? Are you dumping midrange like it’s nobody’s business? Getting all those right will help you get closer to the pro studio sound you’re getting from samples
I had trouble determining the difference in sound between compressed and non-compressed. Maybe it's just me. Anyone else have that problem?
I agree that It’s subtle with these examples. Are you watching in HD (720 or higher)? That’ll get you the best audio quality.
@Don McIntyre I agree that if you dont have all of those aspects compression wont fix your mix. But, i will say that its compression that takes a pretty good mix to a polished and consistent mix. Small tonal changes per individual track exponentially multiply once added to an entire mix.
hi, do you use delays for drum mics? please tell me about delays. thanks
nope. when a guitar player or pianist hits a chord, do all the notes happen at the exact same time? nope. so it's ok if your drum mics aren't perfectly time-aligned.
I usually time align (delay) the FOH mix relative to the back line acoustic sound.
This way the back line sound, (usually where the drums are) is heard at the same time as the FOH
@@JuzzyQld Have you had good luck with that? I've thought about doing that before, as my system is totally capable of it, but usually it's such a small amount idk if it'd be worth bothering with since the PA is only 10-ish feet in front of the back line for us, it's not like we're playing stadiums (just yet😉 ) lol.
Obrigado!
de nada
is this session came from a virtual soundcheck ?
+James Stewart yes! It’s hard to get band members to hang around while I try and shoot tutorials 😂 great name btw!
@@AttawayAudio thank you, It's not my real name, i love old movies.. I watch your videos from italy, i'm italian, God bless you and thank you for your tutorials
Why no hold?
"Cold Shiny Turd"
Band name #2149
count me in
Did you just say "a cold, shiny turd"?? I thought worship techies were supposed to be boring...
Sorry I didn’t meet your expectations 🤣😳🤪
Under no circumstances.. and I mean NOOO!! Circumstance.. try polishing a soft turd! Never turns out good!😳