This just in: Rugne causes mass panic among routesetters, all indoor boulders are now V0 for anyone using Magdust. Local climbers report sobbing, screams of anguish from the back rooms. Meanwhile, online commenters rejoice, as all boulders are indeed now V0 in their gym.
These are lies, don't believe them!!🙅♂ Have I tried chalk from Metolius, Black Diamond, Mammut, Friction Labs, and Rungne?✔ Is Rungne's Magdust the best?✅
I think your explanations made me understand plateauing in the intermediate range better. When several difficulties are combined - which is new in that range - they tend to multiply. When at a beginner climb, strength is tested, and I am barely strong enough, at least I am not challenged to be precise and flexible while giving it my all. But at intermediate and higher climbs, not being strong enough may immediately lead to me being in an impossible position and missing a hold over and over again, on top of lacking the power to move all the way. Any weakness is much harder to compensate, because errors and difficulties compound. Now my hope is that getting better at one thing (say mobility) will help me to reduce other difficulties (say strength) on the same moves, so one day I will get up the boulders that feel impossible now.
yup exactly, thats why you generally want to be stronger (pulling and fingers) its so much easier to learn hard techniques when you can actually hang to the holds without getting stressed
@massama6354 is right. Developing strong pulling muscles is needed for reaching to the next hold without falling away from the wall. Developing strong fingers is necessary for making use of bad holds once you reach them. Mobility can be useful, but strength is an absolute must for the higher grades.
@@adamhaas141 While I agree, I think that most intermediate climbers have the strength to climb 2-3 V-grades higher than they usually do, but lack a lot of technique (route reading, precision in foot placement, coordination, efficient movement, etc.). I think that finger strength for example gives me the opportunity to try harder (and for longer), but it definitely matters what I try. In my opinion, it is not just one thing I need to train, but training one thing makes all the other requirements on the same boulder easier. Finger strength for example helps a lot to give me the time and wiggle room to place my feet better, for example. Obviously it also just helps to get up climbs with worse holds.
@@nilsp9426 Once again, I totally agree. Lol. Many intermediate climbers are more lacking in technique than strength. You just need to figure out whether that's you or not. Having climbed for some years before getting back into climbing, I had a professional evaluation by an elite climber/physical therapist. This included his analysis of videos of me climbing. He pointed out one minor technical error and gave me some drills to work on that, but overall, he concluded that the main thing holding me back was lack of pull strength. My max grade didn't really start to progress again until I worked really hard on strengthening my back, shoulders, and upper arms. The tests also showed that I have elite-level hip mobility. However, this only comes in handy from time to time. And, that one technical error he pointed out was "overstepping," something only made possible by my above average mobility!😅
if you're not strong enough you have to be in the optimal position, and being inflexible may make that impossible, so yeah defo work on flexibility. Do still work on strength though, carries over to the rest of life and makes you feel good.
Grades are indeed very subjective. I started bouldering after a lot of powerlifting background so right now my overhang/campus/mantle/jumps ability is v5 and my slabs/heel hooks/balance/body positioning is v3
the climbing stuff chalk tier list combined with the fact magnus introduced me to climbing so I trusted him already convinced me to get some. and yeah, it definitely works lol. the chalk I had before that was like the cheapest stuff there was so the fact that's what it's being compared to probably helps but it's not like what I had before was bad chalk anyway.
@@TheGumbyGuy I've been using Metolius chalk, it doesn't stay on my hands at all.. I used some of my buddies Magdust at the gym and I was sold. Next time I need to get chalk I am getting some Magdust forsure
The setter at my local gym in Iceland has done an amazing job, imo, setting creative boulders at all difficulty levels. I specifically remember flashing a V6 and then having to take quite a few attempts at a V3, cause I just could not find a good position for one of the moves - until I found it. It is all so very personal style and problem solving dependent and that's why I love it!
You know, if there's one thing I think is really the problem, it's the statement, "the people responsible for grading". Ultimately all the systems, V grades, Font, YDS, Dan-Kyu, etc, were all designed to describe the difficulty of climbs related to one another, and not to create an objective scale of difficulty. So outdoors when several people climb something and come to a consensus grade, you have what people are most likely to feel the grade is. Indoors, you have the personal opinions of a few people who work at the gym setting routes, and sort of arbitrary guidelines about difficulty (AKA, no heel hooks until V-whatever) that vary from gym to gym, and sometimes even setter to setter. So in other words, indoors, grades really can't be trusted between gyms. Then of course, as a smaller side point, you have the sort of re-definition of what V0 is. Yes this gym has VB, but many gyms don't. However, if you take something like the Joshua Tree Bouldering Guidebook, there are about 8 grades below V0, with any boulder easier than V0 getting a YDS grade and they go all the way down to 5.2. So not only do we have sort of arbitrary guidelines that vary, we have completelyo different starting points. All of that is to say consenus grading is one thing more gyms should do.
Glad you liked it. We’re switching things up a little and experimenting with some different formats since I picked up an injury so it’s good to know you enjoyed 😀
I was thinking that about my gym for a while because every UA-cam video I watched had people doing problems of a higher grade than me which looked to my unsophisticated eye to be piss easy. One day I finally went to a different gym. It was twice as hard. Ego obliterated.
I think the reluctance of Jake to talk v grades speaks a lot about their relevance in indoor climbing, thus in using them as a universal scale that is transferable from one gym to the other. 6a on a kilter feels a lot closer to the type of effort that would be required to climb 6a outdoor. I personally climb around 6c route outside and would expect to get my ass kicked on a power 6a / v3 boulder. And that seems to track (ie I'm most likely not flashing on a v3 boulder at 30°). So overall, don't think about sandbagging compared to another gym, just climb what feels hard yet fun and enjoy it.
Epic video, if you see the one I upload tomorrow please know I was already working on it for a few weeks 🤣 I'm always inspired by you Hannah and think you and your team are pushing the Climbing UA-cam scene to a better place constantly
Haha oh noooooo! Sorry I beat you to uploading - excited to see your take on the topic. Thanks so much for the kind words too - appreciate it. Looking forward to seeing the space grow and newer channels coming to the fore with fresh ideas.
This was so interesting. I can sometimes flash 6c+, but 7a feels completely impossible. Been trying to figure out why. Leaning a bit towards finger- and general strength being the main thing, but it's hard to know
I regularly fall on boulders quite a few grades below my max, and know that I can only climb my max grade in very specific styles. Super interesting how different it can be depending on style, and even just depending on how you feel that day!
Another super important factor when approaching your max levels are the physical conditions: How's your skin? How clean are the holds? How well-rested are you? In my case, I drop 1 grade (at least) after a hard session just for my skin condition...
I really enjoyed this video! I feel like breaking down how routesetters think and set up these levels is kind of objective too (?) I don’t know, either way I learnt a lot as a beginner climber! :)
The absolute worst thing at the expert/elite level is having setters think that the complexity makes it hard, sure fire way to make something climb like absolute dogshit. You can have ultra complex v6's and ultra simple v15's. The problems that climb the best at the elite level in many cases are some of the simplest.
I think that point from Hannah on the percentage of people who can complete a climb for indoors is really interesting. I feel like it does come up indoors but is probably skewed by other factors in weird ways - like when there's a new set and one of the climbs is 'way easier than the grade', loads more people try it to get that acheivement. The percentage of successes probably ends up similar to others in that set.
Yesterday I've sent my first 6a and was supper happy about that. But also there are still bunch of 5b and 5c (we have a slightly different grading system) which I'm not able to do. And also I climbed one 5 slab that felt much harder than 6a one. So it is interesting sometimes. For me the best advice was Magnus Mitbos' words that you should try everything. Grades are just a numbers and sometimes harder boulder might be more of your style or you atleast learn new moves. 😊
Congrats on your first 6a. First of the grade is always a cool milestone. Grades are just numbers and it’s so interesting how different climbers relate to the feeling of difficulty over different styles!
This was such a great video, made me feel better about my bouldering and that I just might have some interminable boulders I can do because of “my style” that I am still stubborn to believe.
Really enjoy trying all the climbs you make. Regardless of grade, everyone has the same chance to try something which seems a bit beyond their ability, and get satisfaction when they do it.
Great video, For gyms that have it, it is also interesting to look at the toplogger app averages, in my gym there are only 3 women who average v5 or higher (only 1 v6, I'm 12th with my meager v4). Gender is also interesting, because 110 men average v5 or higher and 22 men v6 or higher. The hardest boulder is also 7b (v8) .
It's interesting to see that the routesetters have completely codified setting soft at the lower grades - it's interesting seeing what is here described as V4/V5 when it would be the equivalent of what might get a V1/V2 outside
I’d say the main difference with outside is the time limit you have to work on a boulder. Climb anything often enough it’ll feel many grades easier than the first time you sent it.
At 4:21 he sets a V2 where there's a gaston that makes him grunt cause it clearly takes a bit out of him. This is a sign that the strength required is not a V2. Not sure if the intended beta is what he did but no V2 climber is gonna be able to gaston in that uncomfortable position to pull themselves up. I think that the earlier grades have this specific problem because route setters generally don't understand the strength required for certain climbs. Truth be told, even I don't know and I'm closer to that grade than he is but it is something I think more route setters should keep in mind. And I know it sounds dumb that a grunt makes a climb sandbagged but if you have a climber than can do V10s get a bit drained from a V2, then most likely it's not a V2.
I agree and have experienced this often. The strength required for a v2-v3 is much more dependent on the setting team and the wall than the grade on the problem. I believe that some route setters can lose the ability to gauge the (lack of) strength of beginner climbers, which makes some gyms more suitable to beginners than others imo.
It's often said that climbing demands physical strength, technique and mindset/mental strength. I am wondering if route setters consider scariness/mental difficulty when setting routes, especially at the beginner level? Many beginners struggle with committing to scary moves, especially at that stage where a lot of new techniques are being introduced. I have experienced it myself at the beginner level that I wouldn't send problems because the moves higher up were the ones that demanded trusting an uncomfortable (because new to me) move, a sketchy hold or a high reach. When problems were set that way on the regular, it was leading me to getting discouraged, not trying as hard, hence not becoming stronger and then being on a downwards spiral in terms of progress. For me the only way to counter that was to change gyms, where I could regain physical strength, which ultimately gave me the confidence to do the scary moves. So I am wondering if that is something that routesetters consider, and/or if this even could become a blind spot? I.e.route setters with decades of climbing experience just not realising how mentally demanding some moves can be to beginners. Or in short, I was surprised that so many different elements go into determining difficulty of a boulder, but scariness wasn't mentioned.
Great video :) I would have loved to learn how size is factored into deciding on a grade. Like all small climbers I have experienced having to jump on an „easy“ climb hence it becomes so much more difficult. How do routesetters test this? And decide on a grade?
Great point! Especially given the conversation around the olympic route setting and height recently. I'm hoping to cover that in a journalistic style video soon, so you might find that interesting!
This highlights why I've said for a while that route grading by consensus of the masses is a problem: difficulty based grading is skewed by the strong climbers. Something is easy until it feels nearly impossible when it comes to strength (finger strength included), unless it is highly technical. That's why outdoor routes should be regraded based on criteria, not by "experience and feel" as highlighted by Jake Mason in the video. Having concrete criteria removes a lot of subjectiveness and makes for more consistent grading. Who should grade it? I feel that the route setters of the area in which the boulders are located should perform this task to best align with the gyms in the same area. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Would love to do a V17 one day but will settle for perhaps a V7. You both covered the topic really well and it's something that I'd not properly considered before and lacked the knowledge to comprehend.
really nice video i dont know if i missed it but if not i would've loved a perspective on how setters with extreme morphology ( very small or very tall ) balance their setting/grading
Good conversation! Would’ve been interesting to hear what you think of the grading difficulty of comp-style boulders. Some of these boulders push the limits of coordination and technicality to the point that they start to become extremely hard to grade compared to traditional boulders. For example in a lot of Magnus’ videos he thinks that a lot of these types of boulders are sandbagged because they may be graded only as 7a to 7c but appear impossible to him or climbers who climb at this level but aren’t ”comp climbers”. What do you think?
Where I rope climb, the route setters leave a bit of paper next to the tag with the grade and a level above and below to tally. That way you can get a consensus of where a climb sits - wouldn't be completely unreasonable to do this in a bouldering gym either, could probably use QR codes
I started my learning of bouldering with Bobat's channel, so it is really cool to see the their routesetters' mindset. To be a routesetter, do you actually have to be able to climb the route you set? 😀
I feel like the route setter's name is as important as the grade itself. V4 described in this video looks like V2 in another gym I attend to and vice versa.
my local gym leaves the new boulders ungraded for like a week not sure if they already have the grades decided or if they are still debating among themselves
I think "how many people have climbed that one" is a good proxy measure of the grade yes. It gets into statistics territory and loses some of that subjectivity.
Mate, you are in the advanced category - its just you are on the right hand side of the bell curve distribution. The population decline of who can climbe beyond V10 is extreme
@@TheMerryDwarf But within that group of people who take action towards achieving that V10+ goal, what % of people manage to do it? My guess is a good amount. Most people don't climb (or do anything, really) at that level because they do not _really want_ to. By that I mean having the heart's desire to do it, mentally planning to do it, physically training towards it and committing one's energy towards that goal. I, personally, totally lack ambition, therefore I rarely go above V10 (or let's say 2000 elo) in anything, and I plateau at that level after a year or so. Doesn't mean I don't do things well or mindfully, nor that I don't derive great enjoyment from doing them. I just won't be in the elite category and I'm fine with it. To me, the journey is more important than the goal. Cheers!
Yes, I totally agree with you. When gyms call things like V6 "advanced". That's how you get people with the attitude that they're elite level climbers because they climb a V8 in a gym.
@@Aaron-xq6hv v6 is for sure intermediate-advanced. Most people climbing in the gym probably can't do v6, so if the majority can't do it it's above intermediate.
@@colemantrebor6574 Most people aren't willing to put in the effort to climb harder than whatever V grade they stop easily progressing at. So that doesn't really mean much. Not to mention, with the explosion of popularity in climbing the "average" climber probably only has 2-3 years experience.
Makes me look at our Gym and wonder if ours are soft. Sometimes. Othertimes ours are tough beasts ... at the same level.... I guess the message is, have fun, don't chase grades.
So many factors go into it….Nathan knows how to beat the usual Beta, the same as I do….being tall is a gift and a curse! 6’7” is nice, but 245lbs isn’t great….😂
The owner of my regular gym told me "We will do cracks when everybody's got gloves.", so never. I guess he thinks it's too risky for a commercial gym aimed at all levels. Any arguments for me in favor of a few cracks next time I meet him? :D
Honestly it's pretty risky on a bouldering wall: chances of someone getting "stuck," especially with a toe jamb are very high as plenty of people that don't have a good feel for things are first learning. My gym has set a few on overhang, which probably reduces the chances but the difficulty also goes way up. Best bet: set it on top rope so they have a chance to dislodge themselves without serious injury.
@hannahmorrisbouldering would be doable even with your injury, too, as you don't always need to be on the wall, and the lower level boulders wouldn't fatigue or worsen your injury hopefully.
Hopefully someone can in the comments - I'd love to hear peoples thoughts because I don't have a clue! My best guess would be that sport climbing is an older discipline (I don't actually know if it is haha) or something to do with the way bouldering tests the body in a different, more intense way as it's more strength and power based?
@@hannahmorrisbouldering The capital letter is the difference. Let's say 7B (French Font - bouldering) vs 7b (French sport - route climbing). 7B is V7/8 (V-grades)--- around 7c+ or 5.13a (YDS) 7b is 5.12b/c (YDS) --- around 6C+ or V5/6 (V-grades) There is a good conversion table at the very end of the wiki page here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_(climbing)
So basically, to add to my previous comment, V17/9A (capital letter - Font bouldering grade) is the highest boulder grade outside (except if Aidan's Arrival of the Birds is secretly V18/9A+). There are a couple V17 problems that appeared in the last years. Repeated and confirmed -Burden of Dreams (Nalle Hukkataival) -Return of the Sleepwalker (Daniel Woods) -Alphane (Shawn Raboutou) -Soudain Seul (Big Island assis - Simon Lorenzi) Unrepeated -Megatron (Shawn Raboutou) -L'Ombre du Voyageur (Charles Albert) -Arrival of the Birds (Potential V17+ - Aidan Roberts) -Spots of Time (Aidan Roberts) Sanbagged V16s -Blackflip sit (Vadim Timonov) -Honeybadger (Will Bosi) -Terranova (Most probably the world's first V17 - Adam Ondra)
@@hannahmorrisbouldering it could be the look of it, and Maybe it is just me, but when i went to an other gym in my area levels felt more easy, i think that it really depends on Where you Go, how long it is and other aspects
GREAT video, but do you remember me (back from before you had 50k subs) I still love your videos and go back and re-watch them to prepare for comp season! 🤩 I also just posted a new video from when I went outdoor rock climbing up to 5.11a in Japan! Hope you check it out! 🙏🙏🙏 If you do please leave a comment 🥰
Genuinely, I think some interesting content would be cruising on some old, tired ships. The older, smaller royal Caribbean and talking about if they are worth it and comparing to the new ships. Can’t all be big and new stuff.
I would guess they mean “rolling” over hips and shoulders to bring one side of your body and arms closer to the wall. Instead of climbing “square” with hips and shoulders parallel to the wall, you’re now introducing more complex technique and movement by rolling to change body direction.
This just in: Rugne causes mass panic among routesetters, all indoor boulders are now V0 for anyone using Magdust. Local climbers report sobbing, screams of anguish from the back rooms. Meanwhile, online commenters rejoice, as all boulders are indeed now V0 in their gym.
PRECISELY 🥹
These are lies, don't believe them!!🙅♂ Have I tried chalk from Metolius, Black Diamond, Mammut, Friction Labs, and Rungne?✔ Is Rungne's Magdust the best?✅
This guy Joké ? Jake? Guys seems well dreamy. Was I behind the sofa the whole time though?
Thanks for lending him, and thanks even more for crouching down behind the sofa that whole time. Never in doubt of your commitment to the shot.
They mention V17 and Pioneer level.
Omar pops out.
Coincidence? I think not.
Burden of Lens
I think your explanations made me understand plateauing in the intermediate range better. When several difficulties are combined - which is new in that range - they tend to multiply. When at a beginner climb, strength is tested, and I am barely strong enough, at least I am not challenged to be precise and flexible while giving it my all. But at intermediate and higher climbs, not being strong enough may immediately lead to me being in an impossible position and missing a hold over and over again, on top of lacking the power to move all the way. Any weakness is much harder to compensate, because errors and difficulties compound. Now my hope is that getting better at one thing (say mobility) will help me to reduce other difficulties (say strength) on the same moves, so one day I will get up the boulders that feel impossible now.
yup exactly, thats why you generally want to be stronger (pulling and fingers) its so much easier to learn hard techniques when you can actually hang to the holds without getting stressed
@massama6354 is right. Developing strong pulling muscles is needed for reaching to the next hold without falling away from the wall. Developing strong fingers is necessary for making use of bad holds once you reach them. Mobility can be useful, but strength is an absolute must for the higher grades.
@@adamhaas141 While I agree, I think that most intermediate climbers have the strength to climb 2-3 V-grades higher than they usually do, but lack a lot of technique (route reading, precision in foot placement, coordination, efficient movement, etc.). I think that finger strength for example gives me the opportunity to try harder (and for longer), but it definitely matters what I try. In my opinion, it is not just one thing I need to train, but training one thing makes all the other requirements on the same boulder easier. Finger strength for example helps a lot to give me the time and wiggle room to place my feet better, for example. Obviously it also just helps to get up climbs with worse holds.
@@nilsp9426 Once again, I totally agree. Lol. Many intermediate climbers are more lacking in technique than strength. You just need to figure out whether that's you or not. Having climbed for some years before getting back into climbing, I had a professional evaluation by an elite climber/physical therapist. This included his analysis of videos of me climbing. He pointed out one minor technical error and gave me some drills to work on that, but overall, he concluded that the main thing holding me back was lack of pull strength. My max grade didn't really start to progress again until I worked really hard on strengthening my back, shoulders, and upper arms. The tests also showed that I have elite-level hip mobility. However, this only comes in handy from time to time. And, that one technical error he pointed out was "overstepping," something only made possible by my above average mobility!😅
if you're not strong enough you have to be in the optimal position, and being inflexible may make that impossible, so yeah defo work on flexibility. Do still work on strength though, carries over to the rest of life and makes you feel good.
13:05 you're actually supposed to palm on it
Nathan: channels his inner giraffe
Grades are indeed very subjective. I started bouldering after a lot of powerlifting background so right now my overhang/campus/mantle/jumps ability is v5 and my slabs/heel hooks/balance/body positioning is v3
Absolutely! I guess that's why people sometimes take 'personal grades' and generally, grades can be taken with a pinch of salt! :)
🔥I love learning from setters edit: that Rungne ad was great
@@Seize_machine they’re such magicians!
the climbing stuff chalk tier list combined with the fact magnus introduced me to climbing so I trusted him already convinced me to get some. and yeah, it definitely works lol. the chalk I had before that was like the cheapest stuff there was so the fact that's what it's being compared to probably helps but it's not like what I had before was bad chalk anyway.
@@TheGumbyGuy I've been using Metolius chalk, it doesn't stay on my hands at all.. I used some of my buddies Magdust at the gym and I was sold. Next time I need to get chalk I am getting some Magdust forsure
The setter at my local gym in Iceland has done an amazing job, imo, setting creative boulders at all difficulty levels. I specifically remember flashing a V6 and then having to take quite a few attempts at a V3, cause I just could not find a good position for one of the moves - until I found it. It is all so very personal style and problem solving dependent and that's why I love it!
didnt expect to see Jake! Love him
You know, if there's one thing I think is really the problem, it's the statement, "the people responsible for grading". Ultimately all the systems, V grades, Font, YDS, Dan-Kyu, etc, were all designed to describe the difficulty of climbs related to one another, and not to create an objective scale of difficulty.
So outdoors when several people climb something and come to a consensus grade, you have what people are most likely to feel the grade is. Indoors, you have the personal opinions of a few people who work at the gym setting routes, and sort of arbitrary guidelines about difficulty (AKA, no heel hooks until V-whatever) that vary from gym to gym, and sometimes even setter to setter. So in other words, indoors, grades really can't be trusted between gyms.
Then of course, as a smaller side point, you have the sort of re-definition of what V0 is. Yes this gym has VB, but many gyms don't. However, if you take something like the Joshua Tree Bouldering Guidebook, there are about 8 grades below V0, with any boulder easier than V0 getting a YDS grade and they go all the way down to 5.2. So not only do we have sort of arbitrary guidelines that vary, we have completelyo different starting points.
All of that is to say consenus grading is one thing more gyms should do.
Such a great video! Thanks for making this video for us to understand the different grades and what skills are needed.
Hope you found Jake's explanation insightful - it was cool to get an idea of what goes through setters minds when they're assessing difficulty!
Such a fun and insightful video Hannah!
Glad you liked it. We’re switching things up a little and experimenting with some different formats since I picked up an injury so it’s good to know you enjoyed 😀
@@hannahmorrisboulderingfeel better hannah!
@@haushunny5058 thank you!
Watching Jake talk I'm convinced my gym is sandbagging me
I was thinking that about my gym for a while because every UA-cam video I watched had people doing problems of a higher grade than me which looked to my unsophisticated eye to be piss easy. One day I finally went to a different gym. It was twice as hard. Ego obliterated.
I think the reluctance of Jake to talk v grades speaks a lot about their relevance in indoor climbing, thus in using them as a universal scale that is transferable from one gym to the other. 6a on a kilter feels a lot closer to the type of effort that would be required to climb 6a outdoor. I personally climb around 6c route outside and would expect to get my ass kicked on a power 6a / v3 boulder. And that seems to track (ie I'm most likely not flashing on a v3 boulder at 30°). So overall, don't think about sandbagging compared to another gym, just climb what feels hard yet fun and enjoy it.
I climb at this gym and can confirm Jake’s makes these climbs look way easier than they are aha 😂
@@jakecarbone9789 😅😅
@@PPKFilms for instance in the other gym that he is routesetting, Hang, they have no V-grades.
Epic video, if you see the one I upload tomorrow please know I was already working on it for a few weeks 🤣
I'm always inspired by you Hannah and think you and your team are pushing the Climbing UA-cam scene to a better place constantly
Haha oh noooooo! Sorry I beat you to uploading - excited to see your take on the topic. Thanks so much for the kind words too - appreciate it. Looking forward to seeing the space grow and newer channels coming to the fore with fresh ideas.
This was so interesting. I can sometimes flash 6c+, but 7a feels completely impossible. Been trying to figure out why. Leaning a bit towards finger- and general strength being the main thing, but it's hard to know
I regularly fall on boulders quite a few grades below my max, and know that I can only climb my max grade in very specific styles. Super interesting how different it can be depending on style, and even just depending on how you feel that day!
Totally!
Another super important factor when approaching your max levels are the physical conditions: How's your skin? How clean are the holds? How well-rested are you? In my case, I drop 1 grade (at least) after a hard session just for my skin condition...
I really enjoyed this video! I feel like breaking down how routesetters think and set up these levels is kind of objective too (?) I don’t know, either way I learnt a lot as a beginner climber! :)
Glad you enjoyed it! It was a really interesting concept to bring to life :)
A really nice interview. Interesting and with thoughtful questions. Love the vibes.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Yes, exactually what I need after a hard climb today :-)
💪 glad to hear it
The absolute worst thing at the expert/elite level is having setters think that the complexity makes it hard, sure fire way to make something climb like absolute dogshit. You can have ultra complex v6's and ultra simple v15's. The problems that climb the best at the elite level in many cases are some of the simplest.
Yeahh agreed, only difference is even with a simple sequence there is always so much subtlety to make it work
Hannah’s editing has gotten super slick, nice work!
I think that point from Hannah on the percentage of people who can complete a climb for indoors is really interesting.
I feel like it does come up indoors but is probably skewed by other factors in weird ways - like when there's a new set and one of the climbs is 'way easier than the grade', loads more people try it to get that acheivement. The percentage of successes probably ends up similar to others in that set.
Yesterday I've sent my first 6a and was supper happy about that. But also there are still bunch of 5b and 5c (we have a slightly different grading system) which I'm not able to do. And also I climbed one 5 slab that felt much harder than 6a one. So it is interesting sometimes. For me the best advice was Magnus Mitbos' words that you should try everything. Grades are just a numbers and sometimes harder boulder might be more of your style or you atleast learn new moves. 😊
Congrats on your first 6a. First of the grade is always a cool milestone. Grades are just numbers and it’s so interesting how different climbers relate to the feeling of difficulty over different styles!
This was such a great video, made me feel better about my bouldering and that I just might have some interminable boulders I can do because of “my style” that I am still stubborn to believe.
Really enjoy trying all the climbs you make. Regardless of grade, everyone has the same chance to try something which seems a bit beyond their ability, and get satisfaction when they do it.
Thanks. I have been waiting for a video explaining grades for 2 years since I started climbing.
Happy to help!
I suspect there are other videos explaining climbing grades.
Great video, For gyms that have it, it is also interesting to look at the toplogger app averages, in my gym there are only 3 women who average v5 or higher (only 1 v6, I'm 12th with my meager v4). Gender is also interesting, because 110 men average v5 or higher and 22 men v6 or higher. The hardest boulder is also 7b (v8) .
Amazing stuff! I've been looking for a more objective and tangible way to understand grading since I started climbing march 2023.
Glad you liked it!
Hannah posts, I click
🫶🫶🫶
It's interesting to see that the routesetters have completely codified setting soft at the lower grades - it's interesting seeing what is here described as V4/V5 when it would be the equivalent of what might get a V1/V2 outside
so ture. by far the biggest problem with using v grades indoors. doesnt work.
I’d say the main difference with outside is the time limit you have to work on a boulder. Climb anything often enough it’ll feel many grades easier than the first time you sent it.
Who asked?
At 4:21 he sets a V2 where there's a gaston that makes him grunt cause it clearly takes a bit out of him. This is a sign that the strength required is not a V2. Not sure if the intended beta is what he did but no V2 climber is gonna be able to gaston in that uncomfortable position to pull themselves up.
I think that the earlier grades have this specific problem because route setters generally don't understand the strength required for certain climbs. Truth be told, even I don't know and I'm closer to that grade than he is but it is something I think more route setters should keep in mind.
And I know it sounds dumb that a grunt makes a climb sandbagged but if you have a climber than can do V10s get a bit drained from a V2, then most likely it's not a V2.
If you're not power screaming every single move of a V2 you're not climbing properly...
@@hyau23 lmao gotta let everyone else know you're about to send
grades depend on where you climb too, do you climb in american gyms?
@@reev3s Yes, and it's a very famous outdoor place to climb so the difficulty of gyms inside are comparable.
I agree and have experienced this often. The strength required for a v2-v3 is much more dependent on the setting team and the wall than the grade on the problem. I believe that some route setters can lose the ability to gauge the (lack of) strength of beginner climbers, which makes some gyms more suitable to beginners than others imo.
It's often said that climbing demands physical strength, technique and mindset/mental strength. I am wondering if route setters consider scariness/mental difficulty when setting routes, especially at the beginner level? Many beginners struggle with committing to scary moves, especially at that stage where a lot of new techniques are being introduced.
I have experienced it myself at the beginner level that I wouldn't send problems because the moves higher up were the ones that demanded trusting an uncomfortable (because new to me) move, a sketchy hold or a high reach. When problems were set that way on the regular, it was leading me to getting discouraged, not trying as hard, hence not becoming stronger and then being on a downwards spiral in terms of progress. For me the only way to counter that was to change gyms, where I could regain physical strength, which ultimately gave me the confidence to do the scary moves.
So I am wondering if that is something that routesetters consider, and/or if this even could become a blind spot? I.e.route setters with decades of climbing experience just not realising how mentally demanding some moves can be to beginners. Or in short, I was surprised that so many different elements go into determining difficulty of a boulder, but scariness wasn't mentioned.
Earlyyyy 🎉 getting ready for a day of climbing. Hannah, send the low-gravity vibes :)
Hope your session is a strong one 💪🦾
@@hannahmorrisbouldering xoxo
Great video :) I would have loved to learn how size is factored into deciding on a grade. Like all small climbers I have experienced having to jump on an „easy“ climb hence it becomes so much more difficult. How do routesetters test this? And decide on a grade?
Great point! Especially given the conversation around the olympic route setting and height recently. I'm hoping to cover that in a journalistic style video soon, so you might find that interesting!
Very cool! Looking forward to it :))
Great video, Hannah. I'm strictly intermediate by the looks of it. But I keep trying😂. Loved the rungne advert😂
Best magdust ad.
hehe
This highlights why I've said for a while that route grading by consensus of the masses is a problem: difficulty based grading is skewed by the strong climbers. Something is easy until it feels nearly impossible when it comes to strength (finger strength included), unless it is highly technical. That's why outdoor routes should be regraded based on criteria, not by "experience and feel" as highlighted by Jake Mason in the video. Having concrete criteria removes a lot of subjectiveness and makes for more consistent grading. Who should grade it? I feel that the route setters of the area in which the boulders are located should perform this task to best align with the gyms in the same area. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Would love to do a V17 one day but will settle for perhaps a V7. You both covered the topic really well and it's something that I'd not properly considered before and lacked the knowledge to comprehend.
Thanks for watching! Glad you liked it ☺️
Great video. I'd say a very fair perspective on the v grades in a gym.
really nice video i dont know if i missed it but if not i would've loved a perspective on how setters with extreme morphology ( very small or very tall ) balance their setting/grading
Great suggestion! It was super tricky to cover everything in this session with Jake - deffo so much more to cover on the topic :)
That was rly interesting and helpful. Thank you.
Good conversation! Would’ve been interesting to hear what you think of the grading difficulty of comp-style boulders. Some of these boulders push the limits of coordination and technicality to the point that they start to become extremely hard to grade compared to traditional boulders. For example in a lot of Magnus’ videos he thinks that a lot of these types of boulders are sandbagged because they may be graded only as 7a to 7c but appear impossible to him or climbers who climb at this level but aren’t ”comp climbers”. What do you think?
Rate this so highly, great video team
Appreciate it!
Great video Hannah, and gotta love Jake and the bobats ❤
They’re great. Glad you enjoyed it!
MUGDUST! "If you want to be high!"
That commercal is... need to clip it for a short video! :D
great video and insane editing!!
Appreciate it!
Where I rope climb, the route setters leave a bit of paper next to the tag with the grade and a level above and below to tally. That way you can get a consensus of where a climb sits - wouldn't be completely unreasonable to do this in a bouldering gym either, could probably use QR codes
Cool, Jake is wearing his Dockmasters t-shirt!
I started my learning of bouldering with Bobat's channel, so it is really cool to see the their routesetters' mindset. To be a routesetter, do you actually have to be able to climb the route you set? 😀
Very cool! No, you don't have to be able to climb the entire route, but the moves in isolation, from what I've heard from various route setters :)
I feel like the route setter's name is as important as the grade itself. V4 described in this video looks like V2 in another gym I attend to and vice versa.
My fave collab 🤩🤩
editing is giving vox explained!!!
Would be great to see the internet promote more environmentally friendly chalks that aren't mined industrially... Just a thought!
my local gym leaves the new boulders ungraded for like a week not sure if they already have the grades decided or if they are still debating among themselves
That’s a cool idea! I think consensus grading is a really interesting way of reflecting everyones experience☺️
I think "how many people have climbed that one" is a good proxy measure of the grade yes. It gets into statistics territory and loses some of that subjectivity.
I climb at around V8-10 and I call myself 'Intermediate' all the time.
V9 is right in the middle of V1 and V17, when ye think about it!
Mate, you are in the advanced category - its just you are on the right hand side of the bell curve distribution. The population decline of who can climbe beyond V10 is extreme
@@TheMerryDwarf But within that group of people who take action towards achieving that V10+ goal, what % of people manage to do it?
My guess is a good amount.
Most people don't climb (or do anything, really) at that level because they do not _really want_ to.
By that I mean having the heart's desire to do it, mentally planning to do it, physically training towards it and committing one's energy towards that goal.
I, personally, totally lack ambition, therefore I rarely go above V10 (or let's say 2000 elo) in anything, and I plateau at that level after a year or so.
Doesn't mean I don't do things well or mindfully, nor that I don't derive great enjoyment from doing them.
I just won't be in the elite category and I'm fine with it.
To me, the journey is more important than the goal.
Cheers!
Yes, I totally agree with you. When gyms call things like V6 "advanced". That's how you get people with the attitude that they're elite level climbers because they climb a V8 in a gym.
@@Aaron-xq6hv v6 is for sure intermediate-advanced. Most people climbing in the gym probably can't do v6, so if the majority can't do it it's above intermediate.
@@colemantrebor6574 Most people aren't willing to put in the effort to climb harder than whatever V grade they stop easily progressing at. So that doesn't really mean much. Not to mention, with the explosion of popularity in climbing the "average" climber probably only has 2-3 years experience.
great video!
Wouldve loved V5 to be analyzed as well but it was skipped sadly.
The intermediate chapter covered V4-V5 :)
Great video. I would like it 10 times if it was even possible.
Wow, thanks!
Makes me look at our Gym and wonder if ours are soft. Sometimes. Othertimes ours are tough beasts ... at the same level.... I guess the message is, have fun, don't chase grades.
The range of climbers within the v9-v12 is much larger than any of the other groups I feel
So many factors go into it….Nathan knows how to beat the usual Beta, the same as I do….being tall is a gift and a curse! 6’7” is nice, but 245lbs isn’t great….😂
Good video, great add
Thank you!
That pink, pocket, campus problem looked a bit spicey for v7!
I AGREEEEEE! I do love Yonder setting though :)
The owner of my regular gym told me "We will do cracks when everybody's got gloves.", so never. I guess he thinks it's too risky for a commercial gym aimed at all levels. Any arguments for me in favor of a few cracks next time I meet him? :D
Honestly it's pretty risky on a bouldering wall: chances of someone getting "stuck," especially with a toe jamb are very high as plenty of people that don't have a good feel for things are first learning. My gym has set a few on overhang, which probably reduces the chances but the difficulty also goes way up. Best bet: set it on top rope so they have a chance to dislodge themselves without serious injury.
Great video 👍👏❤️
Thank you 🤗
I see Jake Mason, I watch video :>
I would love to see you coach a newer climber. As a long-term climber, with all your knowledge, I recon you would make a good coach.
It would definitely be fun to give it a shot! :)
@hannahmorrisbouldering would be doable even with your injury, too, as you don't always need to be on the wall, and the lower level boulders wouldn't fatigue or worsen your injury hopefully.
Great ad :D
Thanks! 😄
can someone explain why there are "only" 9a in bouldering but something like 9c+ in rope climbing?
Hopefully someone can in the comments - I'd love to hear peoples thoughts because I don't have a clue! My best guess would be that sport climbing is an older discipline (I don't actually know if it is haha) or something to do with the way bouldering tests the body in a different, more intense way as it's more strength and power based?
@@hannahmorrisbouldering @Pennervomland I always thought it's just because sport climbing uses French grades, and bouldering uses Font grades :)
They are just different grading systems, its like comparing hvs 5b to v3
@@hannahmorrisbouldering The capital letter is the difference.
Let's say 7B (French Font - bouldering) vs 7b (French sport - route climbing).
7B is V7/8 (V-grades)--- around 7c+ or 5.13a (YDS)
7b is 5.12b/c (YDS) --- around 6C+ or V5/6 (V-grades)
There is a good conversion table at the very end of the wiki page here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_(climbing)
So basically, to add to my previous comment, V17/9A (capital letter - Font bouldering grade) is the highest boulder grade outside (except if Aidan's Arrival of the Birds is secretly V18/9A+).
There are a couple V17 problems that appeared in the last years.
Repeated and confirmed
-Burden of Dreams (Nalle Hukkataival)
-Return of the Sleepwalker (Daniel Woods)
-Alphane (Shawn Raboutou)
-Soudain Seul (Big Island assis - Simon Lorenzi)
Unrepeated
-Megatron (Shawn Raboutou)
-L'Ombre du Voyageur (Charles Albert)
-Arrival of the Birds (Potential V17+ - Aidan Roberts)
-Spots of Time (Aidan Roberts)
Sanbagged V16s
-Blackflip sit (Vadim Timonov)
-Honeybadger (Will Bosi)
-Terranova (Most probably the world's first V17 - Adam Ondra)
i get the idea that my gym rates a bit low lol, because that 7A would be like a 6A+ or 6B where i go
I could fairly confidently climb 6B in most gyms I’ve climbed in, but I know for sure I couldn’t touch the 7As Jake demos.
@@hannahmorrisbouldering it could be the look of it, and Maybe it is just me, but when i went to an other gym in my area levels felt more easy, i think that it really depends on Where you Go, how long it is and other aspects
Believe me boulders can look way easier in videos. Look at the 7A+ he did after that 7A. Campusing on 2-finger-pockets is no joke.
Love me some Jake
Jake points to board not in camera shot... camera doesn't pan to board... awkward. why? show us that tasty board!
comparing a crack climb to marmite, can't get more british than that
Ahah it’s true!!
Hey it's that guy
V12 and v9 climbers aren’t the same category of climber. One is at a completely different level from the other.
GREAT video, but do you remember me (back from before you had 50k subs) I still love your videos and go back and re-watch them to prepare for comp season! 🤩 I also just posted a new video from when I went outdoor rock climbing up to 5.11a in Japan! Hope you check it out! 🙏🙏🙏 If you do please leave a comment 🥰
🗽 Imagine there would be no difficulty level ratings. You would climb all the boulders, because you do not know how difficult they are. 😁
.
Genuinely, I think some interesting content would be cruising on some old, tired ships. The older, smaller royal Caribbean and talking about if they are worth it and comparing to the new ships. Can’t all be big and new stuff.
❤
early!
Hey hey! 👋
he weares a shirt of my local gym....
v8 just intermediate 💀
My life’s goal is to make advanced ngl 🥹🥹
@@hannahmorrisbouldering same homie...same
Is that Joke :o
why does he full crimp inside? not good for the fingers
Some people prefer full crimp. Depends how you train
What does the routesetter mean when he talks about introducing rolling into a climb? 🧗♀️
I would guess they mean “rolling” over hips and shoulders to bring one side of your body and arms closer to the wall. Instead of climbing “square” with hips and shoulders parallel to the wall, you’re now introducing more complex technique and movement by rolling to change body direction.
@@dylanschwartz9832 ahh thanks, I get it now! 🙏🏻