Sonic the Hedgehog 3 Retrospective (& Knuckles)
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- Опубліковано 26 жов 2017
- The long-awaited analysis of a beloved Classic Sonic title. I'm also not super contrarian this time... mostly! & Knuckles
Cybershell's Sonic 3 Complete video: • The Best Way to Play S...
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Sonic the Hedgehog 3. Critique. Retrospective. Review. HD. SEGA. KingK. Sonic 3 and Knuckles - Ігри
The way I pronounce Hydrocity is the absolute correct way and if you say it differently, leave my comments section you heathens
KingK Hydro-City. Not high-drocity. Come at me, bro
the hydro and city are together as 1 word though.
If it was watercity would you say wah-tehr-city?
Sorry bra, it's Hydro City. There isn't even a way for you to argue this.
KingK I’m reminded of Megamind every time you say Hydrocity
"Sonic 3 and 'I hope you're okay with that'" is even longer than just saying 'and Knuckles' though...
Konsaki for one sentence
I thought the same thing and anticipated this comment.
@@thedinobidari /r whoooosh
@@thedinobidari he was joking
Oh, you...
Knuckles and Knuckles 3 starring Knuckles featuring Knuckles from the Knuckles may chuckle series with a cameo appearance by Knuckles.
With the new Funky Knuckles mode included!
Knuckles the Echidna in Knuckles and Knuckles Chaotix 3 Starring Knuckles from Knuckles in Sonic 2, K.N.U.C.K.L.E.S Edition.
Will Knuckles be in the game?
Featuring knuckles from the knuckles may chuckle series.
And - get this - you get to play as Knuckles!
This is a great retrospective and knuckles
here I come
rougher than the rest of them
the best of them
tougher than leather
they call me knuckles
unlike sonic I don't chuckle
I'd rather flex muh muscles
Lmao
I’m hard as nails
it ain’t hard to tell
I just like how you called CyberShell the “Sonic Lore Master”. I remember how he said people refer to him as such in a video, so I absolutely love the reference. Good on you.
Stardust Speedway Gaming you Watch KingK as well?
Train #4, yes. Why?
Because I just wanna know since you Watch SMT as well
Train #4, yes. KingK has a lot of videos I enjoy and appreciate.
Too bad he left us....
Sonic 3 AIR is a thing now with widescreen. New definitive version.
Yes, it is too good.
Yep!!
IIRC The seesaws in Mushroom Hill were added because they allowed a second player to contribute to the mechanics more than just following by increasing the ascent speed, and the team had been puzzling over something for Tails to do that was in-level more than just carry Sonic around, which some players had asked for.
So it was kind of an attempt.
Sonic 3 A.I.R. has become the definitive way to play Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
Tails' hitbox is slightly smaller in Sonic The Hedgehog 2, making him an easy mode. a very, very, very, slight easy mode.
Gamesforus
Till the 3rd levels boss battle.
Except he can't go Super in 2.
Thought it was funny how tails gets fucked up by flying battery lol
he has to get all 14 emeralds to be super, that don't seem too easy to me
I know you said you felt Ice Cap Act 2's song felt soulless, but I loved it because the ice caverns emptied out into a quiet snowy wasteland and the music matched, feeling quieter, almost hushed.
Wow, what an interesting take KingK has on Sonic 3! I've been playing that game my whole life, it's my all-time favorite, and he's still coming up with things I've never even considered about it! I can't wait to see what...
"Hie-draw-sity."
*twitch* Heheheh, hey, that's always been a hotly-contested pronunciation, and it's no problem if other people want to say it differen-
"Hie-draw-sity, in Hie-draw-sity, going back to Hie-draw-sity, Hie-draw-sity, Hie-draw-sity, HIE-DRAW-SITY."
NOW LISTEN HERE YOU LAZY MILLENNIAL BACK IN MY DAY WE REVELED IN OUR CHEAP LEVEL DESIGN FULL OF CRUSHERS WE NEVER COULD HAVE SEEN COMING IT MADE US REAL GAMERS GOD KIDS TODAY ARE SO CODDLED I'M SORRY SONIC GAMES DON'T GIVE YOU A PARTICIPATION TROPHY ALTHOUGH AT MY ELEMENTARY SCHOOL IN THE 90S (THE ONLY GOOD DECADE EVER) WE GOT PARTICIPATION TROPHIES SO I GUESS IT'S... not that big a difference, and whooo, okay, I didn't know hearing it pronounced that way so many times would have that effect on me.
I love your observation about Sonic offering the most variety. In my own episode years ago, I think I just focused on how much harder-yet-rewarding the insta-shield was to use properly, but the variety offered by Sonic's shield powers really adds to why he's almost always my character of choice. I agree too with your observation about the special stages, both in their placement being SO much better, and in Blue Spheres being neat enough, but a bit boring. I wish there was a way to immediately max out your speed in 'em, that'd at least make them a little more palatable. For me, I think my Special Stage preference might go Sonic 1
The Geek Critique I haven't seen praise for SA2 since it came out. Most of the time it's people going after it, even with the defenders. That's my issue: we NEED to defend SA2, whereas Sonic 3 doesn't really need that. They're both flawed in their own ways is my point overall, but it seems like consensus that SA2 is only one third good or whatever. As for the framerate, I can swear the mobile ports run smoother? Compare them side by side, the genesis games must have some weird hiccup to them. I've noticed it in all of the games.
Hm, that's the weird thing, I do notice dropped frames sometimes in your footage, but I figured that was just your capture software or UA-cam compression. It looks like you're using the Sega Classics emulator on Steam, so maybe there's something quirky about that?
As far as SA2 goes, I definitely encounter plenty of people who swear up and down that it's the Best Game Ever. Any time I bring up Sonic, especially in a group setting at a party or something, it always gets brought up that way. The difference is that these are almost never people who've actually played it in the past 10 years. You DON'T often see high praise for it in analytical videos or retrospectives. What's more common is people who similarly say they remember loving it, but find that it doesn't hold up to their nostalgia nowadays.
What's funny is that sometimes, this is couched in surprise, or like "people hating on SA2" is a recent development. But even when the game came out, it was incredibly divisive. I loved it at the time, but it's always had plenty of detractors.
Personally, I would say that SA2 is one-third GREAT, and the other two-thirds are passable enough that I'll play through 'em once so I can unlock more speed stages.
uhh tl;dr?
KingK The mobile ports might seem like the run smoother just due to the Retro Engine offering greater control and not having any of the speed caps present in the Genesis versions. In Sonic 1, there's a surprisingly low max speed cap at all times and while Sonic 2 removes this on the ground, it still triggers in the air under most conditions. The mobile versions lack this.
@DissTrackReaction Or you can simply just ignore the discussion and carry about with your day. Both The Geek Critique and KingK make high quality videos with in-depth analysis of older games. You shouldn't be surprised that they would also have lengthy discussions in comment sections of their videos.
Sonic's insta-shield is seriously one of the most underrated abilities in the series. Mastering its use feels so badass, especially when you get into doing things like jumping through the lava falls in Lava Reef or nerfing enemy projectiles.
This video encompasses just about if not everything I've always thought about the game, being someone who played it through well over a hundred times at the *least* growing up. Thanks for this!
Growing up with these games makes a big difference. When you play them in order as they come out it makes sonic 3 look incredible after the first 2. Mania is my favorite now though
Oooh been looking forwards to this one! Huge fan of your other sonic videos and was greatly anticipating your take on the third game (and your self-declared "all-time favourite") :) For me, Sonic 1 will always be my favourite but that's probably rose-tinted nostalgia glasses talking - it was the first real videogame I owned. I respect the arguments you made against it in your video, but personally, for me, Scrap Brain Zone could well be my favourite-ever Sonic level...different strokes for different folks I guess! Idk why I like it, something about it's brutality and the massive difficulty spike from Star Light, it truly felt like a proper "last zone". Maybe it was the awe I felt as a kid first seeing the intro title and that theme kick into life, before being annihilated in swift course and realising "oh, so this is where the real challenge begins..."
i didnt expect you here Matt. Great to see youre a fan as well!
Nah, you're not the only one. 3 is my favorite along with Mania, but I do play 1 more often. And Scrap Brain is my favorite Zone in the game.
Cameron Douglas Sonic 2 FTW! I love it! I love all the Classics, but 2 definitely gives me the most enjoyment.
i knew that the video about sonic 3&k would be amazing! thank you for making this ^^
i always thought that ice cap act 2 music sounds somewhat similar to Who Wants to Be a Millionaire theme
its actually the jetzons. was figured out somewhat recently
ua-cam.com/video/8WP0IW-Lztk/v-deo.html
I hope we get Sonic Mania 2.
I hope not, I feel like the Team of Sonic Mania would go with the title they had in the first place "Sonic Discovery" and run with that concept. Being bound to sonic mania would imply being bound to that formula and I would rather they make a Sonic game of their own, and not only take from the classic's, but apply what works in modern sonic games aswell as step away from remixing old zones and focus their creativity on making entirely new zones or give new life to old tropes. Just imagine what they could come up with for the classic Casino Level's. Maby translating crysis city into a 2D enviorment. I sure have a lot of ideas for zones so they must have aswell. I say that the team working behind Sonic Mania can do more than just Sonic Mania 2. They can do so much more.
@@nickyoushallnotknow1524 I, uh... I think his point was more "I hope we get another 2D Sonic by Christian Whitehead & Co."
@@AniGaAG Yeah i know, i was just kinda rambling
& Knuckles
@@nickyoushallnotknow1524 nah they should stick to the classics
John cena you can't see me spike balls.
My favriote enemy..john cena you cant see me spike balls.
Sonic 3 A.I.R. fixes most of your problems
Along with allowing mods
"What would we do without him"
Cybershell: Disappears off of the face of the earth
Let's hope he's back in 8 years for the sonic 3 bonus video
He’s back and he made a Sonic 3 Bonus Video!!!
Yeahhhhhhhh about that 😂😂😂😂
Sonic 3 AIR is now the definitive way to play the game
Hell yeaaaahhh
@@shore7154 Sonic 3 AIR has mod support though
@@shore7154 yeah but mods exist for any customisation Complete might have and way way more
@@shore7154 what's your point wouldnt that be a positive
No skill involved in the special stages? Wtf you talking about?
PiousMoltar maybe they just come easy to me, but it feels like memorization. I prefer CD and Mania skill-based challenges rather than memorization based challenges.
Mania's special stages are definitely the best. In these blue spheres ones, memory plays a part and those stages do annoy me, but I'd say they involve skill for sure. I think the Sonic 2 ones are more dependent on memory. Strangely they never annoyed me quite as much, despite never being able to get past like the 4th one. I think it's just because they weren't as nauseating.
Right? I'll never be soupa sonic.
Definitely isn't perfect, but there's no doubt that it's had the best blend of the three pillars of any Sonic game. Other games may be more fun, but on a design level, and overall character, I think this game wins. I always go back to this game at least once a year to remind myself what it used to be like as a child and getting all these ideas for creating my own Sonic games (a hobby I had as a kid); the nostalgia factor for me in this game is heavy, and I accept that as a huge bias but, eh, it's a great feeling.
In general it's difficult to compare classic to modern because they're too completely different beasts.
It's nice to see a game analyst on UA-cam who finds 3D Sonic to be "flawed, but fun" rather than "objectively terrible, how NOT to design a game". Looking forward to the eventual write up for that game, whenever that may come.
especially since objectively bad doesn't exist
After watching, I had to make a second comment. There is an element that I think sometimes people overlook in games like this. While I agree with you about the hazards and structure of Marble Garden, I still like it so much from an artistic standpoint that I feel it's worth it to learn and overcome those obstacles. It's just such a nice place to "visit". Like how you can go on a road trip, and the driving is the worst part because traffic is one of the greatest human tragedies since the Hindenburg, but it's still a part of the experience, and you still find ways to make it enjoyable, and when you look back on the overall experience you see the best of it all in spite of the worst of it all.
One of the few Sonic The Hedgehog 3 reviews I've seen that actually goes in depth, and isn't just a nostalgic circle jerk. While Mania does improve on Sonic 3 in a lot of ways, I still see Sonic 3 as the more complete game. The reliance on classic zones kinda killed that game for me, theme and story wise at least. I believe if Mania had completely original zones, that it'd stand out from the others more.
Anyways, great video!
I love Mania but I don't replay it as much as the others because it basically IS replaying the others, its nice the first couple of times for nostalgia sake, but it feels like a greatest hits album with only 2 new songs. Besides, the new levels were awesome! I'm confident a new 2D game will come out because of Mania's success, and I truly hope it's all original levels.
I'm not so sure it was really a "reliance," so far as a requirement from SEGA, if I remember correctly at least, to put X % classic levels into Mania.
Yeah that's my biggest complaint about Mania. I wish it would have been all new zones. I usually find myself going back and playing Sonic 3 A.I.R. instead of Mania.
Knuckles the Echidna in Sonic 3 & Knuckles: Retrospective & Knuckles By KingK & Kunckles.
Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series!
and knuckles
KNUCKLES? OO, WHERE?!
I just wanted to say that this channel makes me happy. There's a pretty decent lack of hype-free reviews of the classics, with most substantial reviews sitting between spastic 00's forum posts and a crumbling issue of EGM.
“I hate Marble Garden.”
Preaching to the choir there. Hate it more than 9 year olds with the spinning barrels in Carnival Night
I think there's a ton of skill in the special stages. I love the Sonic 3 special stages and I found them a ton of fun :3
First... thanks for the last comment about Modern Sonic. I reeeeally needed that. I can't wait to see you talk about them in depth, but for now. I'm looking forward to your other stuff.
And this was a really good summary, especially good pointer about those gimmick things. I think you made the best analysis of Classic Sonic I ever seen.
Some problems are completely relatives to the Genesis. Framerate and widescreen were impossible at the time :/
"We let the good parts of classic Sonic shine through. Why not let it happen for 3-D Sonic."
Because Classic Sonic pumped out its entire run in the matter of a few short years, with no real complete and total blunders in the mainline series within that era. Modern Sonic can go a full decade between great titles, rendering its overall impression significantly dampened.
Thank you for standing up for SA2, been seeing a lot of blowback on it the past few years, with the consensus being that it's flatout bad now.
In other words, obnoxious purists hate it.
@@secoTheSonicFan so is sonic 3&k
32:56 This is EXACTLY how I felt playing this game for the first time 2 years ago. I though it was really solid and fun, but was a little disappointed that it wasn’t this perfect transcendent experience that I’ve heard so much about over the years
That's honestly how I feel about the franchise as a whole.
It would've been if you where 8....in 1995
"John Cena You can't see me wrecking balls."
That just made my day.
"hydrahsitee"
Oh boy here we go
hydro-city is boring to pronounce, that zone isn't even a city
high-draw-sitee, on the other hand, sounds cooler and that's what sonic wanted to achieve, coolness
instinctual jealous, Generations disagrees pbs.twimg.com/media/DAHsA9iXcAERXG2.jpg
joj Thats not an arguement, just because it sounds cooler. The devs are the only ones to confirm it and not what you subjectivly find cooler.
"So, we're going to the HydroCity for dinner?"
Well I'm English and I pronounce it, well "hydrocity". It's a single word guys. Like doomsday, not dooms day.
30:54 "Sonic 3 is the perfect template for a classic Sonic game."
This statement right here is the reason why I think most Sonic games past Sonic 3&K get so much flack. I'm by no means denying the fact that SA1 and SA2 are fun games that are worthy of their praise; clearly they were a financial success and are still very fondly remembered to those who grew up on those games. However, I do think it's undeniable that the formula for Sonic 3 was lost in translation to an extent. SA1 does have moments where it resembles classic Sonic in gameplay, but for the most part it starts to deviate from the combination of exploration and speed (obviously veering towards the latter) to the point where it starts feeling like a much more shallow ride, design wise. I haven't played SA2 yet, so I won't comment on it. In a way, this fundamental change in style didn't sit well at all with fans of the classic series, and I think a huge portion of the classic fans believe that these two titles were the catalysts for the design Sonic has toward the modern era, which understandably doesn't sit well with a lot of people.
The point I'm trying to make is that when people say Sonic 3 was what the series should go back to, I believe they're strictly talking from the balance the series attained at Sonic 3. In my opinion, Sonic 3 was where the team was most confident and sure of how to make a good Sonic game. SA1 and SA2 (I assume) are quality, no doubt, but the variety of sub-par gameplay options combined with the slow shift away from exploration and more towards linear paths showed me that Sega sort of lost a grip on what to do with Sonic.
It's far easier for people to forgive some bad zones and gimmicks in what they consider to be a fundamentally solid game, than for people to do the same for what they consider to be a shaky ride and a departure from why they loved the series in the first place.
If I haven't made it abundantly clear, I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who prefers the classic games. This is an entirely subjective field, so I'm just offering my perspective. I can completely understand why you'd prefer SA2, but I hope to think that this comment somewhat embodies why Sonic 3 has been held in such high regard throughout the years. This shouldn't be the basis for anyone to put down what you prefer, nor should it be the basis to ignore future titles for what they have to offer.
The formula was lost because the formula doesn't work in 3D when directly translated.
It's why we have the Boost games now.
It does work Sonic Utopia is evidence.
Also pacing. Classic bs doesn't stick around as long.
Mega Man X6 felt like the perfect template for an X game because of the gameplay features and weapons that I'd consider my favorite as well as good enemies with some poorly designed levels you'd expect them to forgive in above argument.... and yet everyone hates on that game.
ChaddyFantome well Sonic Team have never actually tried to do the formula in 3D, so that says a lot
and the thing I love about this game is that it has different routes, example: use Knuckles as your character, would change the entire storyline in the game and make it quite harder, and the bosses get harder too, and the final boss instead being "eggman" its mecha sonic (don't confuse it by metal sonic), most coolest boss in the classic sonic games
I just found your channel and what luck it was this video as sonic is also my favorite franchise. Watched a few videos since and I really appreciate your candor, honesty and respect for your viewers intelligence. You've earned yourself a new fan here.
Yes thank you sonic adventure 2 battle is my favorite game of all time
I'm just glad you dropped the "& Knuckles" out during the review. It's a mouthful to say, and it makes no sense
tbh i just call it sonic 3 only because it is one big package anyway. the knuckles portion is not intended to be separate
S3, S&K, and S3&K are all different games though. Also, S2&K rarely ever gets mentioned.
David McGill they really aren’t
I love it when you talk about the cohesion of Angel Island. That was always my main thing when loving this game. It's SO well told.
I really like this video, man! I think it’s amazing to see people cover these games as deep as possible and I’m sad I never subscribed to you sooner.
I respect your opinion. I was a little disappointed that you only really liked the game where I adore it. I agree on a lot of the flaws you mentioned although I like Marble Garden. The critique on the Barrel of Doom is completely justified though.
Poor crybaby
Sonic and Knuckles final boss just as hard as the Sonic 2 final boss hell naw
So painfully easy if you know what to do and arent playing as Knuckles?
I gotta be honest your videos are strangely engaging. like I actually watched 3 of your Zelda retrospectives in one sitting cause I enjoyed the analysis very much and actually get kind of excited when I see a new upload from you. good shit.
Very nice video! Sonic 3 still plays very well today. Great game and excellent video. Thank you!
I gotta say this is the most conflicted I've felt about a conclusion. On one hand, I don't believe I'll ever stand down from my belief that Sonic 3K is indeed a gold standard; a role model for 2D Sonic because I legitimately don't take issue with what you bring up (well, most of them anyways. Sandopolis is probably objectively bad). And yet your thesis is the statement I've been waiting for since who knows when; I agree to lay off the 3D Sonics, because I also think very highly of (some) 3D Sonics, and believe they too can serve as templates for fantastic video games, and not just fantastic Sonic games (shoutouts to Colors). I guess I'll just wait for your next ventures into the series.
Thing for me is... I actually think Generations is as good as Sonic 2. So no pro-2D bias here, but... SA1, SA2, Heroes, Shadow, '06, Lost World... they don't even _compare._ Even Unleashed's great half (if we were to pretend the Werehog didn't exist) just doesn't quite measure up in quality when viewed through a critical lens. Generations is the _only 3D Sonic_ where I don't need childhood nostalgia to try and compare it to the quality of 2, let alone 3&K and Mania.
3D sonic games are meh for me, from what I've played it just feels like the stage completes itself for you. There feels to be hardly any platforming. For this reason I've never ventured beyond Sonic 3 and Knuckles in the series, other than Mania and Generations briefly.
The way you pronounce hydrocity is an atrocity!
I’ll see myself out now
Ok
@@faristurjman2134 lmao
@@minifridge8315 youre about, 8 months late
@@faristurjman2134 so?
@@BigSmoke-xh5hi youre about, 7 months late
I don't really have much to add to this well-done critique, but I want to thank you for doing them. You made me consider the classic Sonic games in ways I never thought about before.
Really like the editing, coordination of text and screen content is spot on.
Okay here’s my thing with Sonic 3. Yes it is my favorite of the classics, mainly because of the scope and depth of the level design, but I do have one major problem that I feel started here, though later games definitely are bigger culprits.
I feel this is when we started getting a little too much spectacle and speed became an expectation of the level design rather than a reward for skilled play.
Sonic 3 has a lot of moments where you just watch something happen with minimum input, and though they’re over quickly, it becomes noticeable on multiple playthroughs. The running on water in Hydrocity, the Laser gates in Death Egg, Mushroom Hill’s thousand and one loops, it looks cool but it leads to my second point, building momentum in Sonic 3 is really easy compared to Sonic 2. 3 has a lot of sections specifically designed for Sonic to just run forward and look cool and the rolling physics aren’t as grounded in actual ball momentum as its predecessors. I can roll down a section and still fly across the water as if I were running.
It doesn’t substantially hurt the game, but I feel it started the series in a direction that only got worse as it went on.
THANK YOU! It always bugs me when people criticize the automated spectacle in the 3d games when sonic 2 and 3 do this too.
@@taylord5381 death egg be like : let's waste a whole 15 seconds on an automatic uninteresting set piece that would last half that in sa2 or heroes if it was a loop and would at least require input
I _would_ call Carnival Night bad. Carnival Night is bad. There, I did it. Not quite the in depth criticism that you're giving, but hey I'm just commenting not making a video. (Fucking barrels scarred me for life)
Also, wasn't expecting this video to go up so soon after Sonic CD, kudos on that.
Edgemaster72
But, beyond the barrel, ehat is so bad about it?
Carnival night is the worst
Great video Kingk been waiting for this sonic 3 video from you
I just binged your retrospectives of sonic, and now I can no longer hold back. Allow me to take a break in the middle of the video to just go listen to the tracks.
Sonic 3 & Knuckles = Greatest Sonic Game bar none.
Monkey D. "Straw Hat" Luffy W
Sonic 3&k was always my pick for best sonic game
But I feel like sonic mania has finally dethroned it
mania
Monkey D. "Straw Hat" Luffy Mania and CD are better imo
Gonna be honest here, Sonic 3 & Knuckles is my least favorite classic game
This Hydrocity pronunciation is the one true path.
You do not know de way
@@iverson64_ for day queeen!
First Super Mario Odyssey came out today and now a retrospective of Sonic 3 from the KingK himself? My day can't get any better than this.
Beautifully made! Great Video!
Ice Cap Zone is my favorite soundtrack from Sonic 3. It really reminds me of 90s pop-techno that was big during that time. Idk why, but I think about Ace of Base when I hear it.
You can't end the retrospective here! You've got to sample freedom planet and give a small opinion piece on one of the few non sonic classic Sonic games before you change game genres!
Thanks for reminding me that I deserve to have fun. As a dad who works hard to run the household and provide a lot of time and space for my kids to have fun (which is often stressful for me) I really appreciate that you use that particular endcap. It's simple but meaningful.
Your content is the most wholesome it can be
I love Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but the ways the game stops you for a set piece or a level paces itself with its gimmicks makes it hard for me to go back to, especially after playing Sonic Mania, which was paced super well (since it cut down on a lot of stop-and-go gimmicks).
Off the topic of the video somewhat, but since a lot of people still consider S3&K as the best game: the level design for me is far more important than the theme of the level, since in Sonic's case, if you screw up the level design, you make the game less fun. I'd prefer all original zones, but I love what we got in Mania. We wouldn't get the god-like remixes or the proof-of-concept CD levels (showing how amazing CD could've been if they spent more time on level design), or the clever gimmicks in Chemical Plant and Oil Ocean. Sonic 3 is more cohesive, but Sonic Mania is a lot more fun and much better designed. I'll happily take the ladder.
Yup. Where 3&K is amazing, Mania is _really_ amazing.
I think that's a neat way to say it. But yes, Mania did spoil 3&K a tad for me, subjectively, because it improved on aspects I had never thought much about in younger years (pacing, subtle level route weaving, using the BGM to underline a stage's rhythm and pace, stuff like that).
Sonic 3&K is great, I love it... but even that game is flawed... especially when the Sonic 3&K Complete romhack exists, which easily negates any claim from some classic fanboys that it's the perfect Sonic game...
It is though
Marius Urucu No, Its the perfect blueprint. It just hasn’t aged well.
It's definitely not perfect, but it is very good.
It's good, but I prefer Mania (/Mania Plus, aka, Bloodstained Curse of the Moon in the style of Sonic Mania), 2, and CD.
Sonic Honestly I don’t even remember why I said that, especially since I don’t have that same opinion now.
Love your videos man, keep it up!
I still put this game in the G.O.A.T. pantheon.
I'll keep my rose-colored glasses, thank you very much
Well, it's very much an amazing game. Just not without fault, is all.
I think hyper sonic cannot drown.
15:30
Ice Cap does have bottomless pits. There might just be 1.
When you play as Knuckles, there is a big one over a pool of water.
Really loved your critique here, man! It actually tapped into some of the things I like and don't like with S3&K.
I think I mentioned in your Sonic 2 vid that that game was my fave, and I appreciated the exploration in 2 over 3. Probably one of the reasons for that was just how well themed the levels were in 2, like you talked about here. With that theming comes not just extra power-ups & goodies but new chunks of level to explore, making exploration a real treat. I feel like 3 is a step back in that aspect since it mostly focuses on giving you power-ups as one of the only rewards for exploration. You don't often have levels in 3 where you get new bits of one to just run through, and it can make the experience feel more linear as a result. This is a balance that Mania actually achieves better than 3, and it makes me very excited to see what future 2D Sonic games will be like (assuming the same dev team will be making another one down the line).
Gonna wrap this up by talking about SA2 as well. Played the Dreamcast Sonic games as a kid (even an embarrassing amount of Sonic Shuffle), but much like how I played S3&K to death as a kid, my time with SA2 really hit its stride with Battle on Gamecube. Even when I had stopped playing most other GC games, SA2B was one of the ones I always booted up, mostly because of the Chao Garden; the amount of hours sunk into that was ungodly, and I don't regret any of it. Nowadays, I appreciate SA1 more than SA2 (and there are some things that aggravated me about it after a recent playthrough), but I honestly can't stay mad at a game I spent that much time on. When the day comes, I'll be excited to see your critique on that game :>
I definitely disagree i think Sonic 3 does the exploration much much better than Sonic 2
I grew up playing sonic and 3 was my favorite, I love the super sonic sprite in it
didn't even talk about lava reef
Alexander Clam Bell It's okay. The music is outstanding
If i could describe my feelings when playing Sandopolis ACT 2 with a word it would be...anxiety...
You have to be in watch for everything. Hanging on the light switch before the ghosts grow too much, the switches will give you limited time to get to the other side of the lever and things like the rising sand.
You can't really afford to go fast freely like the last act, when you DO go fast, it's only because you are on a rush as if you were about to get to the time limit in your last life.
It truly is one of the worst video game levels imo.
@@paperluigis2m371 nah the entirety of ghouls and ghosts
Sonic 3 complete can be played on Megadrive emulators, that makes the game perfect, it doesn't need 16:9, it's design to run on old hardware
One of the rules of making a sonic game don’t name your zone with marble, it won’t end well.
I love S3&K. I grew up playing it and still to this day as a 32 year old consider it one of my favorite games of all time. When it comes to the Sonic series it and Mania (Plus) are definitely my favorites, tho SA1 and SA2 aren’t that far behind. But yea it’s not perfect, no game is. It has some parts that sort of drag the experience down like you mentioned. I honestly hated marble garden as well, Sandopolis was ehh, and I also wasn’t a big fan of Lava Reef. Great retrospective man. I enjoyed it!
"The bosses are bad"
It's sonic3, it has THE barrel. Hardest boss ever.
Bro that barrel is not that hard all you need to do is just press up and down.
@@infinitemillennium3821 if it actually worked 100% of the time, then sure. But if you dare to not do anything within the first 2 seconds of entering, no input will make the barrel change momentum
@@undergalaxy775 that's true.
Great review! Admittedly I have some problems with a few levels too and its not always fun to plough through them if there's not a whole lot of variety of platforming and running to do, especially in Marble Garden which goes all over the place. Though this is still one my favourite Sonic games next to Adventure 2, and I'm glad somebody else has taken a less biased view towards the series similar to what ExoParadigmGamer has done. Subbed!
Fantastic video! You made me want to play these again.
DADDY KING K BACK WITH ANOTHER RETROSPECTIVE HELL YEAH
This has been a great take on the retro sonic games. I share in your frustration over the debate of the 3D sonic games as it has managed to irritate me a lot. Actually I grew very frustrated overall only quite recently in fact due to one argument that just rattled me. I feel as if this really shed some light on the originals in many ways and can see now the series as a whole has been inherently flawed from the start. Its just some have better elements than others. I definitely look forward to a future retrospective of the 3D sonic games because SA2 is my favorite sonic game next to SA1.
However one game I have wanted to know more about is Sonic 3D blast which is another touchy subject, and doubtful if you will see this comment, but that is a game I feel could use some discussion at some point, but maybe it's not really worth making a video on, but like you I am open to a discussion about that.
Totally agree with your statements about 3D Sonic as a huge fan of the boost games, SA1, SA2, and Heroes.
I never had an issue with Marble Garden. I've always loved the speed in that zone and I really like the boss.
I find it strange you talk about Sonic 3 being praised so much.
I mean, there are definitely fans, and it is my favourite (though I also love SA2, Colors, and Generations as well).
But in the 25 years I've been playing Sonic, and a huge Sonic fan... I've always come across the contrary to this. And that Sonic 2 is the over-hyped and praised Sonic game. Sonic 3 always coming in behind it (and I always chopped this up to the fact that S2 was a pack-in title so everyone owned it, but S3 required a 2-game purchase to fully appreciate).
lordofduct Sonic 1 made him popular. The next year Sonic 2 was hype af. The next year sonic was on a different console so most of his audience didn't play CD. This gave Sonic 2 time to sink into pop culture more than any other. Sonic 3 of course didn't sell as well for expected reasons.
That's why Sonic 2 is overrated.
See? This is what I hate about that Sonic community. They can all shit on Sonic 2 the most with no problem, but when you get to 3, EVERYONE shoves their opinion down your throat explaining how "perfect" Sonic 3 is. This is why Sonic 3 is actually the most overrated game in the series. Very comparable to Mega Man 2 actually.
Re: Mable Garden THANK YOU I always thought that was the dullest level but I would never quite articulate why....
I agree also on most of the gimmick obstacles, except for the rapelling lines in Sandolpolis- they're easy enough to skip but I do like the idea of having a controlled way to feel out a precipitous drop into what might be dangerous territory. The mushroom hill see saws I think were meant to take advantage of 2 player co op, I agree they don't work but it seems like an earlier focus on co-op got scaled back and they basically didn't know what else to do with the stuff they already made for it.
I think the creators literally apologized for the barrel. For the longest time I could only see Ice Cap and beyond with the help of a game genie.
Marble Garden was Dope AF. Sandopolis....on the other hand..... especially Act 2. Worst Zone Ever
Have you guys heard of sonic 3 angel island revisited, it came out after this video and has 60fps and widescreen. It’s the upgrade this awesome game deserved.
'Hydrahcity'
Guys...we found Megamind!
HyDRAW-city? How do you pronounce hydrogen? HyDRAW-gen?
This was a pretty good retrospective, but could you please explain why you keep mentioning 'poor framerate'? Sonic3K on the original hardware ran at a locked 60fps. I have no idea where you're getting the idea from that it had framerate problems!
Slowdown
21:40 I have played this game countless times yet only after I watched this video I realize that mural was a prophecy on Super/Hyper Sonic fights against Dr. Eggman machine over the Master Emerald. All this time I thought it was a picture of a flower turned horizontally! :D
I really like your analysis on the level design!
I agree on pretty much every point you made, though I don't exactly hate Marble Garden despite its flaws.
SSJ22Terris Marble Garden is like Studiopolis, but better. There's a clear Speedrunners path at the beginning like Studiopolis except MG is better because it clearly requires more skill to get on. Studiopolis is arbitrary and unclear and you miss out on parts of the level of you choose a certain route whereas MG negates that by repeating level design on both paths.
I don't get the SA2 was never good crowd. I played it first time less than a year ago and it's pretty great
Sonic Adventure 2 is a game that has greatly grown on me. I thought it was good as an eleven year old, but there were some things that annoyed me a lot. Nowadays. It's my favourite Sonic game.
I used to think it was the controls that ruined the speed stages, but after playing the SA2 conversion mod for SA1 its just become ckear the level design is nowhere near good enough to make up for the clunkiness the way SA1 does. As for the other 2 styles they're just incredibly boring.
I love both the classic sonic and sonic adventure titles. Honestly, what little complaint I have for any of these games is typically a nitpick, such as the wonky camera in the Sonic Adventure games or the lack of a spindash in Sonic 1.
You have made my day. Thanks!
Fantastic review! My favorite review of Sonic 3k on UA-cam. What I like about this review is the fact that it's not a praise video. It's an actual review with legitimate criticisms and judgement.
You and I have similar opinions on this game. I love this game, but it does have it's flaws, such as the gimmicks, and annoying zones like Marble Garden.
I actually love the classics, but people who overrate this game annoy me as well. My favorite Sonic game is Sonic 2 and many 3 and Knuckles fans tell me that I'm wrong and that I need to stop being nostalgia blind. I legitimately enjoy Sonic 2 more due to better flow and speed, yet many 3k fans can't seem to respect that.
This review highlighted that this game isn't perfect and I use many of your arguments to explain that to people.
It was nice hearing an opinion from someone who isn't crazy about the classic Sonic games. While it was a shock to many 3k fans to hear these criticisms, it was a breath of fresh air to me. Watching reviews with no criticisms is very boring and usually very biased. I once watched a different review of this game from a different UA-camr and one of the first things he said was "I have nothing but good things to say about this game." and I was like "Then what's the point of making the review?"
This review was enjoyable to watch and so are your other reviews. I don't always agree with all of your reviews, but they're always fair and never biased. Once again, I think this is the best review of this game on UA-cam. Fantastic job!
P.S I also pronounce it as Hie-draw-city
This comment.... how do you like a comment more than once?
sonic 2 isnt perfect either you know
also it is pronounced hydro city you idiot
@@solarflare9078 you should not like that comment because it sucks
Good video, dude. While I don't necessarily agree with everything, I get why someone like you would not like it as much as everyone else. Years ago, I was on the S3&K was overrated bandwagon partially due to Marble Garden Zone, but as I replay it more and more, the lesser zones don't really bother me as much as they should.
There was a S3&K overrated bandwagon? Because I do not recall there being ANY bandwagon about that game being overrated. If anything, I see more about it being overpraised. Same with Mega Man X4.
Yes! Yet another trilogy analysed! Great work, but what's next?
Keep up the good work! Awesome vid