I used to know a guy who ran a 100 card deck (vintage, not EDH) with 15 lands in it. He was a notorious cheater and our group took turns taking the piss out of him. He would, without fail, first turn sol ring. He had 2 in his massive deck. Always got 1 sol ring, Kaalia of the vast, and all 3 of his colour land drops. We called him out so often for having the exact same opening hand. Best part was when anyone else had a good top deck pull, he'd accuse us of cheating. Edit: one time he got hit with a "reveal top cards until a land is revealed... discard the rest" ability. Saltiest rage quit ever when he revealed 80 cards in a row and no lands left
As far as the "the problem is because lands are cards in the deck" Legends of Runeterra is very similar to magic in many ways, but you just passively get a mana crystal every round. There are ways to ramp it out faster but in general that's just how it goes. You can still get a mana screwed if your hand is flooded with high cost stuff, but that's also part of the deck building/ mulligan choices. However it means, you don't actually get screwed out of having mana to play anything and thats kinda nice. It might cost you a game if you can't play anything now, but if you live a few rounds YOU will have the mana you need. In magic that forest you badly need could be 8 cards down.
I do need to get better at deciding if my hands are keepable; you have a good point, and I have been working on that aspect. I did keep an excellent one land hand with my control deck. Had a Flooded Strand, 2 serum visions, 2 path to exiles, a lightning bolt, and a leak.
Like this video des!. A couple of questions: - How do you take into account mana dorks/spells, like attune with aether or servant of the conduit? - How do you take into account double cost spells? Say I need double green by x turn?
I would argue 3 lands in a starting hand is better than 2... I always am much more happier with a 3 land hand compared to a 2 land hand ( I do also play limited more often than constructed )
Went to draft last night, and on my 3rd game of the 3rd round I drew 11 of my 17 lands in a row against an opponent who was only able to play 2 slither blades. My opponent made me throw out the top two cards of my deck at one point and it was 2 of my best creatures. I've never been so salty in my life.
The Silent Assasign that is a terrible approach. land is not power, outside of a landfall deck, land is simply a means to an end and as soon as you can play the top of your mana curve all other land is a dead draw. dead draws lose you games. you can absolutely make a deck with 16 lands with a low curve. 23-24 is needed if your top curve is 5+ and your deck just doesn't have room for mana dorks or draw engines. or a standard where their are no mana dorks. at no other point is blindly putting 24 land in a good idea.
if you are a filthy casual like me it is fine, because you dont have all the duals you want. So you have to add an additional chance of getting color screwed, which justifies 2 or 3 extra lands imo. also frodo the hobo, if you look at mitggoldfish, about half the decks run 24 lands the other half 21, so dont tell people there is something wrong with 24 land decks plz. it all depends on your curve, but if you are not competetive its perfectly fine
@@frodothehobo9938 I run 28 lands....but im also running a gruul jank in modern so im pitching lands for damage with an upper curve of 8 Yes its not super viable, but its functional and I have pretty good fun since my local scene isnt full of netdecking fuckwits
@@V2ULTRAKill sometimes it is good yeah. I have a deck around omnath locus of rage that really likes to dump multiple land into play every turn and it runs 25 lands plus ways of re playing land already in play but in this case i am turning land into power
Mana screw is number 1 for me, paper and digital. I have lost more win and ins and top 8's in pptq's, SCG IQ's, GPT's, PTQ's, GP's etc. than anyone in existance because of Mana Screw and I'll bet every dollar to my name on that. If mana screw wasnt a thing, I'd be in the MtG hall of fame.
Using Hypergeometric distribution, how do I determine how many lands I need? Is it based on average card cost, or highest cost card? I want to know how it works so my decks are tuned.
Im running a 28-30 lands in a modern deck with a peak curve of 8, its also Gruul jank with everyones favorite land pitching cyclops at 2 in the deck so basically I play around EITHER rush or stall, my deck accomodates both
so is madness if I like to mulligan to 1 be it a land and top deck the rest of the game.... cuz I have won games like tht is usually funny or cuz I'm mad and I'm like f**k it
Great numbers. . . .Great math. . . even applicable. . . . to online magic or computer generated deck orders. Their pseudo-random algorithms are fairly close to really random. Shuffling isn't, in that all possible card orders do NOT have equal probability. This is why you should manaweave, even though you DO shuffle sufficiently. I'm sure I'm not saying anything you don't already know. . . . we'd have to figure out a sample size that is good enough for statistical analysis on manaweaved and sufficiently shuffled decks.
RuthlessRut that is very not smart, 74 cards just decreases your consistency by 14 cards which is a lot. It's the #1 new player mistake. Ask literally anyone who's been playing for a while and is really into it.
yes not consistent to 1 combo or mechanic u may or may not be trying to do. i only have 2 decks focused on the 1 combo or mechanic but i use full sets of the cards i need and always get them, just saying in my experience playing i have no problems. simply i just use my side board with the main deck. but of course i have only played locally never in a tournament or anything
played magic 2015 on the google play store to learn how to play got mana screwed 6 times at the end of the tutorial, uninstalled the app not worth learning to play
Honestly I don't get "you must run only 60 cards" shtick. If you're at competitive level and playing to win - you do that thing and tune your manabase into pure perfection. For FNM levels of play I would say sometimes you just need to see how your deck "feels". Last time I brought turbo fog deck. It had 61 cards. Why? Because I couldn't fit last land. If I would drop 2 cost spell and put land - I would get flooded, otherwise - screwed. Finally I said fuckit slapped land on top and won that FNM. At 61 cards draws felt just right, I never got screwed. Heck I had won gameday with 68 cards delirium deck. My logic was - I need to mill myself, however I don't want to mill myself all then answers.
How is the worst thing in magic "net deckers"? There is a difference between playing magic casually and competitive. I just think it is so dumb that people think net decking is so bad. I think people just make up stupid excuses because they lose. Just make better decks. lol
Its Apps because it increases prices and punishes people like me who have to budget build while people demolish me with 700 dollar decks that they cycle through every month while I can't build a counter to them that quickly. I'm lucky if I have $10 for magic.
aylamaiia Ok lol. You would have more in store credit and trades if you won. That's how I make all of my decks. Either trade for them or build them overtime. I rarely buy card with actual cash. If you don't want to win and not pay the prices for the cards then you should proably stop playing the game instead of getting mad at people who want to win and buy the cards.
Its Apps Net decking works both ways. It does drive up cost but depending on when you bought into a popular deck after it rotates you get at most half of what you invested in it( I'm talking in terms of Standard). Also as you net deck you lose the surprise element in tournaments allowing you to be metagamed against. I have no problem with net deckers, I understand why people do it but to basically tell someone to "start winning more" lacks a bit of tact. This is why I hate Standard. Due to the limited card pool and viable strategies you're almost priced into paying to win. My advice to those that want to play budget brews and win...play Modern.
I only play casually so I don't care about competitive play at all. But I don't see the fun in net decking. Building and tweaking a deck is half the fun for me. Net deckers should go and play a few rounds of Conspiracy Draft Cube.
I hate the fact that the video is nothing to do about what are you saying. It is just wrong. Take the time to create visual content. For instance, the number that you are saying are difficult to visualize for non-english people and keep track. Apart from that I really appreciate the insight.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
i have the heart of the cards, i only need five lands in my deck
58 lands a goblin and a wincon : P
I used to know a guy who ran a 100 card deck (vintage, not EDH) with 15 lands in it. He was a notorious cheater and our group took turns taking the piss out of him. He would, without fail, first turn sol ring. He had 2 in his massive deck. Always got 1 sol ring, Kaalia of the vast, and all 3 of his colour land drops. We called him out so often for having the exact same opening hand. Best part was when anyone else had a good top deck pull, he'd accuse us of cheating. Edit: one time he got hit with a "reveal top cards until a land is revealed... discard the rest" ability. Saltiest rage quit ever when he revealed 80 cards in a row and no lands left
Me plays 60 land in 100 cards
Also me: Still can't draw lands
I got mana screwed so much i studied to a doctorate degree in statistics to finally figure out much the mtg gods were screwing with me
As far as the "the problem is because lands are cards in the deck" Legends of Runeterra is very similar to magic in many ways, but you just passively get a mana crystal every round. There are ways to ramp it out faster but in general that's just how it goes. You can still get a mana screwed if your hand is flooded with high cost stuff, but that's also part of the deck building/ mulligan choices. However it means, you don't actually get screwed out of having mana to play anything and thats kinda nice. It might cost you a game if you can't play anything now, but if you live a few rounds YOU will have the mana you need. In magic that forest you badly need could be 8 cards down.
Never tell me the odds...
Do a video about when to mulligan, great video Des!
I do need to get better at deciding if my hands are keepable; you have a good point, and I have been working on that aspect.
I did keep an excellent one land hand with my control deck. Had a Flooded Strand, 2 serum visions, 2 path to exiles, a lightning bolt, and a leak.
Like this video des!. A couple of questions:
- How do you take into account mana dorks/spells, like attune with aether or servant of the conduit?
- How do you take into account double cost spells? Say I need double green by x turn?
My 60 land deck doesn't seem to be working
I would argue 3 lands in a starting hand is better than 2... I always am much more happier with a 3 land hand compared to a 2 land hand ( I do also play limited more often than constructed )
Limited usually relies on or really values bombs that are typically 4.5 mana on average if not higher.
there should be a format where each land is one and a half mama of its color
Drew Horst 🤔 would only work/be fun if they took Mana-burn back ingame 🤓 such a shame it got removed 😤
@@kalaknuan1845 mana burn was a fun mechanic
Went to draft last night, and on my 3rd game of the 3rd round I drew 11 of my 17 lands in a row against an opponent who was only able to play 2 slither blades. My opponent made me throw out the top two cards of my deck at one point and it was 2 of my best creatures. I've never been so salty in my life.
What percent chance would you get 7 lands in your hand in a 60 land deck
I usually put 23-24 lands in my decks and it works out for me most of the time
The Silent Assasign i wish more players like you played in my local meta
The Silent Assasign that is a terrible approach. land is not power, outside of a landfall deck, land is simply a means to an end and as soon as you can play the top of your mana curve all other land is a dead draw. dead draws lose you games. you can absolutely make a deck with 16 lands with a low curve. 23-24 is needed if your top curve is 5+ and your deck just doesn't have room for mana dorks or draw engines. or a standard where their are no mana dorks. at no other point is blindly putting 24 land in a good idea.
if you are a filthy casual like me it is fine, because you dont have all the duals you want.
So you have to add an additional chance of getting color screwed, which justifies 2 or 3 extra lands imo.
also frodo the hobo, if you look at mitggoldfish, about half the decks run 24 lands the other half 21, so dont tell people there is something wrong with 24 land decks plz.
it all depends on your curve, but if you are not competetive its perfectly fine
@@frodothehobo9938 I run 28 lands....but im also running a gruul jank in modern so im pitching lands for damage with an upper curve of 8
Yes its not super viable, but its functional and I have pretty good fun since my local scene isnt full of netdecking fuckwits
@@V2ULTRAKill sometimes it is good yeah. I have a deck around omnath locus of rage that really likes to dump multiple land into play every turn and it runs 25 lands plus ways of re playing land already in play but in this case i am turning land into power
I rarely start with no or just one land. I usually draw 2 lands follow by 4 lands then 3 lands in 2020-21.
with me %100 no matter how many lands
I run with 24 lands. I get plenty decent amount of mana. Starting hand is not to bad. Some cases do get two land cards.
"I'm bad with fractions" says the guy who spends whole videos bragging about his Rainmaker-like powers to see and do math really well.
Do you play D&D 3.5? I play it and DM a Pathfinder campaign.
Mana screw is number 1 for me, paper and digital. I have lost more win and ins and top 8's in pptq's, SCG IQ's, GPT's, PTQ's, GP's etc. than anyone in existance because of Mana Screw and I'll bet every dollar to my name on that. If mana screw wasnt a thing, I'd be in the MtG hall of fame.
Mtg has consumed me and I don't regret it, I'm also broke but hey.
Using Hypergeometric distribution, how do I determine how many lands I need? Is it based on average card cost, or highest cost card? I want to know how it works so my decks are tuned.
the highest cost of your most important spells
1 land is a keeper depending if its a fetch, and what is in my hand. If I have 3x thoughtseize i'll keep it.
For me because i play gruul jank i need 3 lands of keep a hand
I enjoy playing people at pre-release who play 12 lands with 7 mana spells in their deck because they don't wanna get flooded.
do the math for a tron deck like for an example the three erzas lands and the 8 fetch cards
Im actually going to make an all land deck and play against my friend for shits and giggles... Wonder if he will catch on...
Im running a 28-30 lands in a modern deck with a peak curve of 8, its also Gruul jank with everyones favorite land pitching cyclops at 2 in the deck so basically I play around EITHER rush or stall, my deck accomodates both
what's with the discount StarCraft in the background?
c&c something. i guess red alert 3
Command on conquer was the original one. learn your game history
Comand and Conquer Generals. Probably the expansion. I don't remember.
Wow I need to pay tribute to rngesus. I keep one landers a lot and have only ever had to concede one game bc no land.
The reason I play the deck I play ATM is I about 60% of the time I can play out my hand with 1 mana
My deck regularly screws me not only opening hand but i won't draw a land till turn 5 eight games out of ten
I run 16 lands in my Paradox elves deck
that kids is why you count cards and put special sleeves on mana *i didnt say that dont listen to me*
24 lands 61 card decks....more aggro red than control..22 lands 61 cards
I miss C&C Generals now.
so is madness if I like to mulligan to 1 be it a land and top deck the rest of the game....
cuz I have won games like tht is usually funny or cuz I'm mad and I'm like f**k it
c&c? vid with MTG talkin
i hate the mana system in magic, it holds the game back by adding in unnecessary luck. after the loot boxes its the worst thing
For me it's 100%.
Great numbers. . . .Great math. . . even applicable. . . . to online magic or computer generated deck orders. Their pseudo-random algorithms are fairly close to really random. Shuffling isn't, in that all possible card orders do NOT have equal probability. This is why you should manaweave, even though you DO shuffle sufficiently. I'm sure I'm not saying anything you don't already know. . . . we'd have to figure out a sample size that is good enough for statistical analysis on manaweaved and sufficiently shuffled decks.
Lands only exist in Mtg to keep you from playing the game
i use 74 card decks and dont get mana screwed
RuthlessRut that is very not smart, 74 cards just decreases your consistency by 14 cards which is a lot. It's the #1 new player mistake. Ask literally anyone who's been playing for a while and is really into it.
RuthlessRut true, but that's the only reason to go over 60
yes not consistent to 1 combo or mechanic u may or may not be trying to do. i only have 2 decks focused on the 1 combo or mechanic but i use full sets of the cards i need and always get them, just saying in my experience playing i have no problems. simply i just use my side board with the main deck. but of course i have only played locally never in a tournament or anything
played magic 2015 on the google play store to learn how to play got mana screwed 6 times at the end of the tutorial, uninstalled the app not worth learning to play
Honestly I don't get "you must run only 60 cards" shtick. If you're at competitive level and playing to win - you do that thing and tune your manabase into pure perfection. For FNM levels of play I would say sometimes you just need to see how your deck "feels".
Last time I brought turbo fog deck. It had 61 cards. Why? Because I couldn't fit last land. If I would drop 2 cost spell and put land - I would get flooded, otherwise - screwed. Finally I said fuckit slapped land on top and won that FNM. At 61 cards draws felt just right, I never got screwed. Heck I had won gameday with 68 cards delirium deck. My logic was - I need to mill myself, however I don't want to mill myself all then answers.
Brockton Butcher I hear 60 land decks are quite consistent. You never get mana screwed.
Nice
21-24? I ran a deck that used like 13 and I worked out most of the time
100%
I find it ironic that Des has difficulty with fractions.
How is the worst thing in magic "net deckers"? There is a difference between playing magic casually and competitive. I just think it is so dumb that people think net decking is so bad. I think people just make up stupid excuses because they lose. Just make better decks. lol
Its Apps because it increases prices and punishes people like me who have to budget build while people demolish me with 700 dollar decks that they cycle through every month while I can't build a counter to them that quickly. I'm lucky if I have $10 for magic.
aylamaiia
Ok lol. You would have more in store credit and trades if you won. That's how I make all of my decks. Either trade for them or build them overtime. I rarely buy card with actual cash. If you don't want to win and not pay the prices for the cards then you should proably stop playing the game instead of getting mad at people who want to win and buy the cards.
Its Apps Net decking works both ways. It does drive up cost but depending on when you bought into a popular deck after it rotates you get at most half of what you invested in it( I'm talking in terms of Standard). Also as you net deck you lose the surprise element in tournaments allowing you to be metagamed against. I have no problem with net deckers, I understand why people do it but to basically tell someone to "start winning more" lacks a bit of tact. This is why I hate Standard. Due to the limited card pool and viable strategies you're almost priced into paying to win. My advice to those that want to play budget brews and win...play Modern.
@@johnnyandthepnuemoni I agree, modern is so nice, Gruul Jank even works, not exceptionally well but it WORKS
I only play casually so I don't care about competitive play at all. But I don't see the fun in net decking. Building and tweaking a deck is half the fun for me. Net deckers should go and play a few rounds of Conspiracy Draft Cube.
I hate the fact that the video is nothing to do about what are you saying. It is just wrong.
Take the time to create visual content. For instance, the number that you are saying are difficult to visualize for non-english people and keep track.
Apart from that I really appreciate the insight.
20 lands
20 is too few for the vast majority of decks
Basically this game is ass
1st comment 😃
me: that game looks cool what's it called?
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