MTG Mistakes Part 14 - Stop Putting the Wrong Amount of Lands Into Your Deck

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  • Опубліковано 15 гру 2024
  • Picking out the correct amount of lands to put in your deck is the hardest part of building it. If you get it wrong by even 1 card, you just lost 3-10% chance of winning in some cases. Here's how you calculate the correct amount of lands to put in, and yes, it's a bit complicated.
    Note: It looks like I "missed" certain side corrections and additional calculations to result in flawless accuracy in this video but I actually omitted them on purpose to simplify it.
    Calculator: stattrek.com/on...
    Follow me on Twitter for awesome decklist updates, tips, sneak peeks of upcoming videos, etc: / desolatormagic

КОМЕНТАРІ • 214

  • @Sgt.Dornan
    @Sgt.Dornan 8 років тому +90

    So putting 61 evolved wilds into my deck is a bad idea? I've been doing this wrong my entire life.

    • @the_creator2762
      @the_creator2762 8 років тому +23

      Its actually a really good idea. Its always best to play with illegal decks

    • @Sgt.Dornan
      @Sgt.Dornan 8 років тому +18

      +The_Creator27 it's street mtg rules man.

    • @s4ad0wpi
      @s4ad0wpi 8 років тому +3

      Sure he can! It's a land /s

    • @Aquilenne
      @Aquilenne 8 років тому +6

      Real badasses play 3000 islands and nothing else.

    • @thedoctor559
      @thedoctor559 7 років тому +2

      Only if you're playing commander

  • @floridaman6982
    @floridaman6982 Рік тому +1

    Out of 7 cards you will draw I am aiming for 3 to be a land or other source. 3/7 of you deck makes mana… 40 ~17, 60 ~25, 100 ~ 40. Works pretty good for me!

  • @Aksuloid
    @Aksuloid 7 років тому +22

    3 and a half mana is not a thing? What do you mean, I only play Unhinged...

  • @maloo2brvo26
    @maloo2brvo26 8 років тому

    This has been very eye opening... I went through my deck and applied your principles to see if I would draw things like a 1 mana cost card on turn 1 (for a turn 1 play) and saw that I was only going to 60 percent of the time by turn 1... But then I saw that my mana ramp from turn 2 onward was amazing so I settled for not having the most amazing turn 1 plays in exchange for better plays later in the game. I think your videos are to the point and you provide lots of good examples, keep up the good work :)

    • @maloo2brvo26
      @maloo2brvo26 8 років тому

      Also, I am new to magic (as of 3 weeks ago) and have played two headed giant 3 times and thats it. I currently have a mono green ramp deck and plan on getting a B/W lifegain deck hopefully soon. Link to the deck below, I would love your opinion on it (that's the one I used your technique on) deckbox.org/sets/1497019

  • @OGwold
    @OGwold 8 років тому +5

    I mostly agree, but with the mana dorks: They can give you a total of 5 mana on turn 3 with no major "hocus pocus", but easily get killed. I substitute 2 dorks for 1 land, or 4 dorks for 3 lands, and the rest is feeling.
    I'm in no way a GOOD player, but I sure ain't a bad one.
    Wait, who the hell am I fooling? I:
    - got a 5 color EDH deck, with only 28 land for gods sake!
    - got a 60 card deck with 17 lands and no other way to gain mana (dorks, artifacts, instants, anything).
    - made my GF a tribal unicorn deck.
    - bought a deck around Glacial Chasm, without even playtesting!
    - am working on a storm crow deck se I'm writing this message.
    - want to make a deck around Endless Swarm.
    I'm just a filthy casual...

  • @GregTom2
    @GregTom2 7 років тому +1

    Amazing video. I was thinking about that concept while deck building but I didn't know how to calculate the odds of drawing "three or more" over a sample size of 10 cards; I just knew how to do "one or more". Your calculator fixes my problem. If someone's interested in actually calculating the scry advantage, you have to do it this way:
    1) What is the probability that I draw one or more of my scry cards in the first 2 turns? Say the odds are 12%. 2) Then, assuming I scry once in the first two turns (which means I dug 11 cards deep into my deck by turn 3), what is my probability of having at least 3 lands? Say 90%. 3) If I don't get to scry, what is my probability of having 3 lands or more? Answer, a meager 75%. 4) What is the total probability? 12% * 90% + 88% * 75% = 76.8 %.
    Of course that was only an example.
    Another relevant use of this calculation would be "what if I get controlled effectively, what is the probability that I draw a relevant card every single top-deck"? Or, what is the probability that I have say; at least 5 cards relevant to the late game in my first 10 turns? Here, you'd have to consider not just the draw, scry, and loot mechanics, but also deck thinning in general. A land tutor such as evolving wild or attune with nature doesn't just count as a land, they also remove a land from your library, giving you less chance to get flooded in the late game (incrementally so). Cards that are relevant to the late game would exclude lands, mana dorks, and probably every creature / spell that can't do anything to a 4/4 but chump block it. Creature tutors, graveyard tutors, eternalizables, etc. would obviously count as late game relevant too.

  • @XxJackFrostxX
    @XxJackFrostxX 8 років тому +84

    I love your videos but would you be willing to put a bit more effort into the visual part of them? They are really helpful but I honestly get very bored when I want to watch and learn but i'm stuck staring at a static image

    • @princemagic3156
      @princemagic3156 8 років тому +2

      Just listen to it in the background. He tried doing other things like putting Gameplay in. I don't know how well received they were, but he probably had a good reason for stopping.

    • @XxJackFrostxX
      @XxJackFrostxX 8 років тому +7

      The gameplay wasn't really worth watching, but if he can have cards or examples popping up on the screen, giving us visual cues to keep us entertained as well I think it would really help

    • @guacysock
      @guacysock 8 років тому +1

      I feel the same way

    • @DesolatorMagic
      @DesolatorMagic  8 років тому +27

      If I didn't have another job I definitely would. Also no copy of after-effects or any similar effects and vector movement program :(

    • @guacysock
      @guacysock 8 років тому +4

      +DesolatorMagic thanks for responding! I understand

  • @joshstarkey8883
    @joshstarkey8883 8 років тому +16

    DO NOT count mana dorks as land, at least directly. If you have a lot you may or may not run less land, but not one less for each mana creature. That can kill the deck.

    • @joshstarkey8883
      @joshstarkey8883 8 років тому

      I have a deck with 8 and 22 lands because I want one on turn 1, 14 lands would suck

    • @joshstarkey8883
      @joshstarkey8883 8 років тому

      Even 2 less land is enough to mess up the deck badly anyway

    • @zman172
      @zman172 8 років тому +3

      As a general rule of thumb its a 2 for one trade off on mana dorks. As in for every 2 dorks you have you can drop 1 land. Now this isn't always the case.

    • @TheCardq
      @TheCardq 7 років тому

      Elvish mystics should be fine to one to one replace but I would count something like a hind as three hinds to one forest

    • @firekram
      @firekram 6 років тому +1

      I'm running 23 mana dorks and 0 land, what am I doing wrong?

  • @dinosaurspy7096
    @dinosaurspy7096 7 років тому +1

    Is there anything to say about two or three colored lands and amount of lands???

  • @DustinSilva
    @DustinSilva 8 років тому +3

    Thanks for doing this series Des! Each video has been Super helpful, I even re-listen to them incase I missed anything the first few times 😎

  • @p5yc40naut
    @p5yc40naut 4 роки тому

    How do you count spells that generate mana when inputting into the Hypergeometric calculator? Example: I have a 65 card mono-red burn deck with 25 lands. I figure the hypergeometric calculator values should either be: sample size 11 with 4 successes in sample or (if playing it super safe): sample size 12 with 5 successes in sample. However, among my 65 cards are 4 Seething Song as well as a Mana Flare. Seething Song is a Sorcery that costs {2}{R} and generates {R}{R}{R}{R}{R} into your mana pool (i.e. is like gaining 2 extra mana for a single turn), Mana Flare is an Enchantment that costs {2}{R} and reads “Whenever a player taps a land for mana, that player adds one mana of any type that land produced.”
    My assumption is that I would add two to my land count for each Seething Song, totaling 8 and bringing the overall total to 33, and ignoring the Mana Flare since its not likely to be drawn very often anyways and would be super difficult to factor in an account for. So, with a population size of 65 with 33 successes in population, and a sample size 12 while hoping for 5 successes in the sample, that leaves me with about an 85% success rate when I use the hypergeometric calculator. And if my calculation of needing 5 lands by turn five was too conservative, and I really only need 4 lands by turn 4, the success rate in that case would be 92%. At first glance, the number of lands seems perfect. The only way I can see that these numbers could possibly be off is the fact that the Seething Songs are Sorceries, and so the mana they generate isn’t something I can rely on using over and over again as I could with a regular land. What’s the correct way to factor in mana-generating Sorceries, and am I right to not try to include mana the Mana Flare can generate into the land count? Do I need to take the probability of drawing the Seething Songs into account and then add that adjusted value into the land count? Or do I not count any cards with mana generating effects into the land count, and act like this is actually a 60 card deck with 25 lands, treating any extra mana those cards generated for me in a game as a bonus?

  • @54m0h7
    @54m0h7 8 років тому +1

    Hey DesolatorMagic, I've played 2 drafts since I first say this video and I'm pretty sure I'm screwing up my number of lands. I get the sorting/counting your casting costs, and I focus on mostly 1 & 2 cost cards. Do you know of a phone App or quick way of calculating how many lands to use for Drafts?

  • @thedurdlefest2884
    @thedurdlefest2884 8 років тому +1

    Let's say you have 2 lands on the battlefield so you cast a scry spell and look at a kill spell in a general scenario would you say keep it or put it on the bottom?

  • @tinfoilsays
    @tinfoilsays 7 років тому +12

    Soooo.....Instead of spending hours and hours on the calculations, I'm hoping you've made a spreadsheet that makes it much easier to test everything (including all those includes 2-step/3-step combo odds etc) ? Though you probably already have, since this video is 6 months old, lol. I know that's going to be my next fun thing to start tuning my decks.

  • @elysianfury
    @elysianfury 7 років тому +1

    I listen to your videos while I'm falling asleep so I don't really care what you do with the visuals.

  • @micahstringham2015
    @micahstringham2015 8 років тому +1

    'Highest Acceptable Percentage' for ensuring land drops?
    90% 95% 85%? Whats number do you like?

    • @rageoftyrael
      @rageoftyrael 7 років тому +1

      He said that 85% is acceptable. That means you only have a one out of six chance of failing, and if you're trying to win a 2/3 of that's a reasonable failure rate. Higher is better, but you also have to keep what else is going on as well.

  • @tempestandacomputer6951
    @tempestandacomputer6951 8 років тому

    I am curious how you all feel about Pore Over the Pages: 5 CMC , Draw 3, untap 2 lands, then discard a card. I think it is really useful but I am not sure if it is worth running more than 1 in the deck.

  • @shataraterevar
    @shataraterevar 8 років тому +1

    what do i do, when i have 21 lands, need 4 mana, and get mana flooded most of the time i play that deck?

    • @sawderf741
      @sawderf741 4 роки тому

      Shuffle more thoroughly.

    • @sawderf741
      @sawderf741 4 роки тому

      Or add some ramp in place of lands.

  • @chadparris8892
    @chadparris8892 5 років тому

    Yeah I have to go through this again. I think I understand the basis but late night and the process is not meshing. So, I'll come back to this because I like the idea of having some math and logic behind my choices.

  • @MaliciousTachyons
    @MaliciousTachyons 8 років тому

    I kinda taught myself how to calculate land balance, but to be honest the best way is to decktest. The stats give you a place to start from but the more you play it the better you are gonna get with the balance of lands.

  • @MunchKING
    @MunchKING 8 років тому

    The rule of thumb I heard was about 1/3rd of your deck should be lands (not a hard number like 21, because you can have more than a 60 card deck, and Commander REQUIRES a 100 card deck). But this will give me a more accurate approximation of what will work or not. So thank you.

    • @alxdegroot
      @alxdegroot 8 років тому +2

      This whole video is basically explaining why you can't just do that! Obviously, it's up to you how deeply you want to go with your deck building and it's a fair point that the basic rule of thumb is: a third of you deck should be land, but if you won't to be more successful and diminish the probability of failure you have to actually think about the cards you have in your deck: the cost of the spells, the number of win conditions and answers etc. as described in the video. And always keep in mind that magic is a game of turns. You need to think in terms of what chance is there that I will draw this card by the turn I need it.

    • @MunchKING
      @MunchKING 8 років тому +1

      That's what I meant by my second to last line. I wanted to thank him for making me think more about it than just a rule of thumb.

    • @MunchKING
      @MunchKING 8 років тому

      If you're getting one land every turn, how are you getting anything else to win the game with? Just Blue super-draw? because half your deck being lands is pretty crazy.

  • @jorge28624
    @jorge28624 8 років тому +5

    It would be good if you have the basics of this written somewhere...

  • @54m0h7
    @54m0h7 8 років тому

    My current desk is a mono-green Elf deck. I only have 13 Forests for lands. So far I've only played 1 game with it. I lost, kinda, because I didn't have enough to block a flyer. We decided to just not do his last attack and keep playing. 2 turns later I killed him with a 30/30 Heedless One with Alpha Status. I got a bit screwed at the start by not even getting 2 lands until turn 4, and didn't draw any mana producing elves (like Llanowar Elves). I wanted to keep the lands really low because of the mana potential with the Elves. Dropping a Refellos, Llanowar Emissary, Wirewood Channeler, or Priest of Titania will pretty much be all the mana I'll ever need. (The deck then uses the classic Sylvan Library/Abundance combo, with 1x Collective unconscious and 1x Dual Nature just for fun.) I left out my Gaea's Cradle, figured it would probably be overkill (and a lot of the searchers look for 'forest', or 'basic lands') I don't know if the deck is actually legal in any format. I haven't actually bought MTG cards since Onslaught, and had a lot of my rares stolen, so I'm working with what I got. lol
    The one plus side is that the deck that did beat me I also built. My friend only has maybe 200 cards so we each made a deck out of them on an earlier day with just them, and it was my old one that beat me this time.

    • @soapboxer2000
      @soapboxer2000 8 років тому

      If your playing casual or Vintage, you could consider using Aluren and Recycle, both from Tempest. They allow you to pretty much dump your library onto the battlefield. My deck used seven forests, since my average cost was one. Mulligans were an issue.

  • @MeriadocMyr
    @MeriadocMyr 8 років тому

    an easy way to recalculate the amount of land you can take out when you run 1-2 mana cantrips is to use the Turbo Xerox rule. which is forr every four 1-2 mana cantrips you run you can play 2 less lands.

  • @Dsparky121
    @Dsparky121 8 років тому

    My friend's commander deck has Omnath, Locus of rage as commander. He will mulligan down to one card until he draws the courser of Kruphix. He then has approximately 95 lands in his deck. I know this is like the most extreme exception to the land ratio but i almost never can beat him because on turn three he will have 90 5/5s and whenever one dies he can do three damage to me or one of my creatures

  • @morrius0757
    @morrius0757 4 роки тому

    Llanowar Elves should count as only 1/2 lands because you want to use them to raise your mana above what you normally do, not use it to straight up supplement you lands. So, for every two elves, drop one land. For every 2 CMC and above mana dorks, remove 1 land for every three of them.

  • @bookworm3696
    @bookworm3696 8 років тому +1

    ok since the calculations don't make any sense to me, i am currently running an 85 card deck with 29 lands in it. the majority of the cards within it cost around 2-4. the important whammies usually cost 6. what exactly am i looking for?(ps there is mana ramp and land find in the deck as well.)

    • @ralr
      @ralr 5 років тому

      7

  • @bobhelger5794
    @bobhelger5794 8 років тому

    desolator, you really are one of the best mtg channels out there, you desrve much more attention and keep up the good work!!!
    ps. I really liked the richard move part

  • @Svenburchard
    @Svenburchard 6 років тому +1

    So 24 lands?

  • @AlexanderRingler
    @AlexanderRingler 8 років тому

    I have a ramp-deck with 8 Arbor Elf Clones and 8 Utopia Sprawl Clones. And I need 4 or better 5 Mana on turn 3... Because my strategy is to cast Mwonvuli Acid-Moss (or his clone) asap.
    So I need to calculate twice, right? I need to look, that I can have 2 lands in round 2 AND I add Arbor Elfs and Utopia Sprawl to the mana-source to look, if I have 4 or better 5 Mana on turn 3.

  • @executiveelf8793
    @executiveelf8793 8 років тому

    So I'm still kinda confused about how to calculate this. I run a green white deck that can survive on 2-3 Mana but needs at least 5 to win. So what do I calculate with?

  • @sethnorton3639
    @sethnorton3639 8 років тому

    planeswalker deck, so average planeswalker cost of 4.5, should I use arbor elf and utopia sprawl, or birds of paradise and the exalted bant mana dork one drop
    I need help

  • @Yoursy2
    @Yoursy2 8 років тому +1

    i ALWAYS MAKE MY DECKS WITH 40% lands and its worked very smooth for me

  • @Jessay
    @Jessay 8 років тому

    after watching, i decided my magic number was 4, and the calculator said i should include 26 to get a 80 percent chance. i thought that would be too many, and couldnt decide between 25 and 26, but then i remembered i was running pack guardian. that card would be extremely helpful in the case that i was drawing too many, because it gets me an extra wolf if i discard a land, so i went with 26

  • @Dsparky121
    @Dsparky121 8 років тому

    I play commander my deck is a U/B Mill control deck with several very high cost leviathans. My commander is Oona, queen of the Fae. I have 36 lands it seems to work well but I struggle with geo-whateveritscalled-probability do you think that's an appropriate amount. Without the leviathans my average mana cost is 2.7 so I called it 3 but when I add my 7 leviathans it jumps to 5.1

  • @subsnovideoschallenge-go2op
    @subsnovideoschallenge-go2op 8 років тому

    7:44 what about Ad Nauseam?

  • @TombiDTA
    @TombiDTA 7 років тому

    How do you account for mana fixers like attune with aether and servant of the conduit for example

  • @chanceguidry4546
    @chanceguidry4546 8 років тому

    I just have some questions on edh I'm running dragons and was curious on what you think via land type

  • @trishasaoirse1511
    @trishasaoirse1511 8 років тому

    a question i have is, (unless you're facing a mill deck) is their such thing as too much draw?

    • @trishasaoirse1511
      @trishasaoirse1511 8 років тому

      Well, more specifically, how much is too much, and do you count cards like expedite and slip through space as draw or boost spells?

  • @hex1289
    @hex1289 7 років тому

    i wish i had a friend like you Des lol you make this game make more sense and just seem like a chill dude.

  • @markuskroll7328
    @markuskroll7328 8 років тому

    Is there any need to include fetchlands or the action of fetching and shuffeling the deck in the calculation of the % to draw a certain amount of lands by turn x? Or am I wrong at that point...?

  • @SuperNorstShow
    @SuperNorstShow 8 років тому

    Im guessing we ignore non mana ramping lands like Maze of Ith and Sorrow's Path in this land count since they don't tap for mana. It would be nice if a player could tap a sorrow's path for mana ;-)

  • @Coffeemancer
    @Coffeemancer 7 років тому

    Is Sacred Cat a fail-safe card? it can block twice and gain some life

  • @animation10crew
    @animation10crew 8 років тому

    I'm new to mtg. So my 'magic number' is five and I don't understand how to work this out still, how many lands would I need?

  • @Bade180
    @Bade180 8 років тому

    My only concern is the idea that you're starting turn 3 with 10 cards. You'd also have to take into account for when you're on the play. Aside that I like this video from a mathematical standing. Heading to your video on hypergeometric distribution next.

  • @violentswamy8147
    @violentswamy8147 8 років тому

    What if I use a unhinged deck with everything use a hafe mana then can I go with some kind of *.5?

  • @Jessay
    @Jessay 8 років тому +1

    i love saying "hypergeometric distribution". even chrome says hypergeometric is not a word

  • @pacattack2586
    @pacattack2586 5 років тому

    So out of curiosity does this mean that opt is worth (potentially) two draws?

  • @cyruslever586
    @cyruslever586 8 років тому

    how hard is this. if i dont know its either 1off or its inbetween and i need to actually add a few spell to justify the extra land. and balance as i cant strip down below the limit.

  • @artoriasabysswalker9773
    @artoriasabysswalker9773 7 років тому

    my deck is 65 cards and i put a land for every 2 cards but when imake my decks i match colors to tgother then after i shuffle if this is wrong let me know

    • @tobymaroby9524
      @tobymaroby9524 7 років тому

      You have 5 cards too many. Keep it at 60, maybe 61 with very good reasons. Otherwise you screw yourself up.

  • @micahstringham2015
    @micahstringham2015 8 років тому +1

    MY friend said the number is 18 for elves.
    /s
    I think its Exclusive events, 'Exclusion' events was close!

  • @studentanselmus9461
    @studentanselmus9461 8 років тому

    If I put 12 Llanowar Elves in my deck, then by using your method I would count them as a land and cut down to about 12 Forests. The problem is, that you need a land in the first place to play the elves. Is that really so insignificant? Where should I draw the line?

    • @kikijiki4230
      @kikijiki4230 8 років тому

      Say your deck needs to draw 1 land and has 12

    • @kikijiki4230
      @kikijiki4230 8 років тому

      Elves is an exemption because they run so few lands

    • @AlexanderRingler
      @AlexanderRingler 8 років тому

      My guess is, that you play elvish Archdruid, right? I would say, assume, that you need two lands. Because you want to have the druid on turn 2 if possible.
      However, if you assume, that you need only 1 Land, then you'd play on turn 2 one or two more Llanowar Elves in the worse case... Maybe it's exactly the number between 1 or 2 Lands.
      But I don't know your deck.

    • @studentanselmus9461
      @studentanselmus9461 8 років тому

      Alexander Ringler It was just a question, I do not actually play elves. I just wanted to know how to calculate this in general to apply it to other decks like my commander builds where I have a myriad of different ramp spells that all cost some amount mana to cast. But what you say sounds about right

    • @AlexanderRingler
      @AlexanderRingler 8 років тому

      The Dracogenius
      well what DesMagic says can be applied on 60-cardformats with exceptions. If you try to figure out, how to do this on commander, that is another topic :-D I always try to have 36 - 40 lands and add to this Ramp-Cards like Cultivate / Burnished Hart / Sol Ring to either become faster or make two cards out of one. Both in the best case. Cards like Burnished Hart or Solemn Simulacrum belongs to the setup of your deck, so it can work and give you a smooth start... Believe me... I play 12 EDH currently :-D But again, it depends on your deck/commander.

  • @kennethturner3517
    @kennethturner3517 8 років тому

    Hey, do you think a standard deck running 4 Startled Awake/Persistent Nightmare and 4Sphinx's Tutelage could work? The other noncreature spells would be draw and some of the creatures would have draw and scry abilities. Just a thought.

    • @yarnak9455
      @yarnak9455 8 років тому

      yes, forgotten creation works pretty well with sphinx

    • @kennethturner3517
      @kennethturner3517 8 років тому

      yarnak I don't believe I'm familiar with Forgotten Creation. I'll look it up.

    • @probablypotato3195
      @probablypotato3195 8 років тому

      I'm guessing this question was for desalator but id like to try and help:) the short answer is yes. but you will need defense and removal. it depends on your meta really (what other people at your store are playing) but usually others will be running slow decks so yes very possible

    • @kennethturner3517
      @kennethturner3517 8 років тому

      Probably Potato Thanks. It shouldn't be very expensive so I'll look into it.

  • @lordbakedcouchpotato4439
    @lordbakedcouchpotato4439 5 років тому

    I've been working on the zombie token deck lately there's a lot of 1 drops but there's also a lot of three drops because of the zombie Lords phyrexian altar and Digraph Colossus luckily I'm playing in mono black so I can take advantage of stuff like cabal ritual Dark Ritual and culling the weak so even though half the deck is 3 drops 20 lands seem to be working perfectly

  • @jeffmason7662
    @jeffmason7662 8 років тому

    ....and this is where you got me as a subscriber. Great work!

  • @MagicRuler2223
    @MagicRuler2223 3 місяці тому

    Last I checked I would say between 20 and 24 for most decks but if you’re running I don’t know a deck that runs I don’t know something interesting out. I guess you think you can get away with 18 or 17 it’s up to you but normally you run 20 to 24 commander you have to run 35.

  • @Name-dh1vo
    @Name-dh1vo 8 років тому

    Hey desolator, everyone at FNM is playing bant company and I can't beat it consistently. Is there a deck that I can bring to just bring hate on them

  • @Krushak8888
    @Krushak8888 8 років тому

    that is why i love evolving wilds so that you can pull more land out to get it out of the deck

  • @Thor2915
    @Thor2915 8 років тому

    Does anyone know a good >= % to aim for in EDH? Obviously you can get it to 100, but i feel like then you'd be highly probably to draw dead more often the later the game would go. Is there a golden standard like "80-20%" or "75-25%"?

    • @nzephier
      @nzephier 6 років тому

      Thayne Kelly 30 or 33 is enough. Most players will recommend 34 or 37 but personally I've had success with 33 in my Baral deck.

  • @thomascollison234
    @thomascollison234 8 років тому

    does anyone have solid rulings on the Imprisoned in the Moon/Crumble to Dust combo? I'm building an Izzet deck and can't get a good answer

    • @NicoFireBlood
      @NicoFireBlood 8 років тому

      So you use imprisoned in the moon, then cast crumble to dust on the newly formed colorless land, since the target of imprisoned becomes a land and lose all other types, so you target it. You end up removing everything with the same name as the card you crumble to dust.

    • @MB-ok8gt
      @MB-ok8gt 8 років тому +1

      You can remove all cards with the same name as the imprisoned permanent, regardless of whether or not it is normally a land. Crumble only cares that its target is a land..
      That said, it does not work with basic lands, since "basic" is a super-type and is not removed by Imprisoned in the Moon. Thus, you cannot target it with Crumble to Dust.

    • @thomascollison234
      @thomascollison234 8 років тому +1

      See, that's the thing. I've talked to a few judges and they've disagreed as to whether or not the basic supertype is implied in the "all other types" part of the text

    • @MB-ok8gt
      @MB-ok8gt 8 років тому

      Thomas Collison From Gatherer
      7/13/2016 The permanent will keep any supertypes it previously had. Notably, if Imprisoned in the Moon is enchanting a legendary permanent, that permanent will continue to be legendary.
      7/13/2016 If the enchanted permanent is a land and has land types, it retains those types even though it loses any intrinsic mana abilities associated with them. For example, a Plains enchanted by Imprisoned in the Moon is still a Plains, but it can’t tap for {W}, only for {C}.
      Source link: gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imprisoned+in+the+Moon

  • @joshuabunnell1000
    @joshuabunnell1000 5 років тому

    What if I can win with only two lands

  • @Dungeon859
    @Dungeon859 8 років тому

    thx for the pc links but is there an iPhone app for the calculation?

    • @DesolatorMagic
      @DesolatorMagic  8 років тому +9

      It's a javascript-based website. It should work on anything. Also, Apple sucks!

  • @sawderf741
    @sawderf741 4 роки тому

    I swapped two cards for lands and holy cow my deck works soo much better.

  • @ahabsbane
    @ahabsbane 3 роки тому

    I'm definitely not a veteran but I guarantee I don't under land, the only time I go below recommended is it I have stupid amounts of mana fixing AND ramp, and only 1 or 2 less.
    Edit: I tend to play golgari so in most of my decks discarding extra land gets me board advantage!

  • @bizdaretz8679
    @bizdaretz8679 8 років тому

    This is why Simic is god dual (even though I favor Izzet, because they're so much fun)

  • @kuukuuplays2449
    @kuukuuplays2449 8 років тому

    hi desolator! for commander what about this concept would change or need to be noted?

    • @kuukuuplays2449
      @kuukuuplays2449 8 років тому

      and I'm a pain lover so i play cromat

    • @DesolatorMagic
      @DesolatorMagic  8 років тому +1

      99 cards = mega mana pockets and droughts unfortunately :( There's just no avoiding it. I don't know about the math but basically just to function you need scry and draw in every single deck.

    • @MaliciousTachyons
      @MaliciousTachyons 8 років тому

      Fetches, duals (yes, pain too), and mana dorks are how you balance out your mana for commander. Remember, no land draw is gonna be useless if you have any X-spells in your deck. Your commander decks probably runs around 5-6 mana, which you ought to have by time turn 4-5 (hopefully). Commander colors may complicate matters (more colors means you need more color-specific mana for the deck to make sense). ideally, I expect about 40% of your total 100 cards (so about 40 or so) will be dorks and lands. Depending on the demand for each color you'd split up your mana percentage between them.

    • @kuukuuplays2449
      @kuukuuplays2449 8 років тому

      +Jason Dookeran ill post up a deck list of what I'm using currently

    • @kuukuuplays2449
      @kuukuuplays2449 8 років тому

      +Jason Dookeran but i feel as though something like abundance would be a good slot here

  • @noamben-david9034
    @noamben-david9034 8 років тому

    what about control decks?

  • @diokosa7001
    @diokosa7001 8 років тому

    I just started on the game last Saturday and I'm never sure how many lands to put in my decks or drafts so I just go with what the store owner tells me then I watch is video and I hear desolator saying "that's stupid that's so stupid stupid stupid stupid" then my internet cuts out on me thank heavens it came back else I'd have a pretty shitty day

  • @admiralcasperr
    @admiralcasperr 8 років тому

    Next things I'd like to see about mistakes is mana color balance.

  • @tuongpham7609
    @tuongpham7609 8 років тому

    can some1 explain number of successes, in population, sample size, and number of success in sample?

    • @DesolatorMagic
      @DesolatorMagic  8 років тому

      Population size = remaining cards in the deck. Successes just means whatever you're talking about that you want to draw like kill spells. Sample size is how many cards you drew out of the deck to attempt to draw the card you need. Hypergeometric distribution refers to the fact that if you have 3 attempts, the deck shrinks by 1 card in size and the probability goes up each time because it's like 8/60 then 8/59 then 8/58.

    • @tuongpham7609
      @tuongpham7609 8 років тому

      +DesolatorMagic :D Ty. now I can hopefully make a better deck for game day.

  • @zwangsstoer
    @zwangsstoer 8 років тому

    I think now would a Video be nice, in which you explain the number of lands depending on the color, if you splash a color or if you Play multiple colors. Please consider doing a video on that if it isn't already in your plan :D
    Thank you for that :D

  • @tomsunshine7076
    @tomsunshine7076 8 років тому +1

    Can you please make this series a podcast

  • @kaedenparten9126
    @kaedenparten9126 8 років тому

    What about multicolor decks....

  • @ZCD99
    @ZCD99 6 років тому

    Thank you so much for this! I'm new to the game and this series (Especially this episode) has really helped!

  • @adambodi4296
    @adambodi4296 8 років тому +1

    woah, woah, woah! first you have to find out the probability of you drawing three or more lands by turn 3. now you need to find out the probability of drawing 2 lands and a scry card by turn 2. to do this find out the probability of drawing only 2 lands and the probability of drawing a scry card givin that the other 18 or so lands are not in the factor. now multiply those odds together. but its not over yet. with those odds, subtract the odds of a land being the very next card. add that to the odds of pulling three lands by turn 3 and there's your success rate

    • @adambodi4296
      @adambodi4296 8 років тому

      hopefully that helps. if not, you probably hate me for making you read all that but I can't compute those odds so I wrote it anyways

    • @barrytdrake
      @barrytdrake 8 років тому

      You can still use the hypergeometric calculator to figure out the odds of getting 1+ lands on the scry. You have drawn 9 cards by turn 2, so there are 51 cards left in the library-- 18 of them are lands. You are looking at the top 5 cards, and you only need 1: 89.8%

  • @skeletonking2352
    @skeletonking2352 7 років тому

    If it's a 20-28% fail that isn't terrible. You might want it lower, but in my experience 20-29% of the time a Mulligan to 6 is okay. I'd stay away from 65% of the time having more lands than you need. But getting mana flooded is better than being mana screwed.

  • @alexanderburrows6020
    @alexanderburrows6020 8 років тому

    Awesome video, great subject. It's got me looking at all my decks now with a more critical eye. Should bounce lands be considered as extra successes in the population, since they tap for two?

  • @lokirip2372
    @lokirip2372 5 років тому

    I am a dork, but this is a whole other level.

  • @MyFaithfulSword
    @MyFaithfulSword 6 років тому

    I always put 25 lands in. Is that stupid?

    • @nathanaelswayne7545
      @nathanaelswayne7545 6 років тому

      Id suggest starting with 23-24 and go from there. I usually like playing 20-22 but then again i dont like spells that cost 5+. If youre playing control with bigger spells u need more lands, and if youre playing a quick deck, fewer lands. In modern i play 17 lands

  • @chiso1991
    @chiso1991 7 років тому

    Hey Desolator. First off want to say I used to be a yugioh fan and I find it funny when u tlk about them because damn near everything is true. Anyway I'm new to magic only been playing for a few months now and I'm trying to get better at deck building. When it comes to the hypergeomectic calculator which number matters more. The hypergeometric probability or the cumulative probability x>or=

  • @hrd2h1t
    @hrd2h1t 8 років тому +4

    Before I've always used 2/5 of my deck being land

  • @probablypotato3195
    @probablypotato3195 8 років тому +1

    "three. is the magic number"

  • @ghostwalker435
    @ghostwalker435 8 років тому

    half the number of mana symbols in the casting costs of your spells. not saying its perfect and infallible, but its a simple way to factor the right number that is actually pretty accurate and consistent in most decks. given that artifacts are counted at one mana symbol for every two mana cost.

  • @Ghostie.
    @Ghostie. 8 років тому

    holy fudge, this math. You're trying to trick us by putting school into magic.

  • @davbry2011
    @davbry2011 8 років тому

    58 Mountains, 1 Countryside crusher, 1 Temur Battle Rage.

  • @BrazenBard
    @BrazenBard 6 років тому +1

    So, it seems to me you're glossing over the availability of one-mana artifacts that let you search your library for lands - how would you say those affect the calculations?

  • @deaddracoman97
    @deaddracoman97 7 років тому

    BOOM!! End of video.
    *Leaves a like

  • @aristotlekaiser8580
    @aristotlekaiser8580 7 років тому

    So, interesting story. Some people i play with created (they could have ripped this off somewhere and i wouldn't know) a fast paced rule set called mana drop mana christmas. In this you may put down more than one land per turn and every time you put a mana on the field then you have to draw a card. Some of them have created seriosuly large decks full of land so they can destroy everyone between round 1 and three. I stopped playing that with those bastards because of the cheap tactics they use

  • @ownageDan
    @ownageDan 6 років тому

    Note: this does NOT apply to MTG arena, because of their "balanced 1st draw" algorithm. you want a few lands LESS than you would normally pick for MTGA.

    • @MarkoLomovic
      @MarkoLomovic 6 років тому

      It applies to arena only difference here is question if you want 3 lands in your opening hand or not. Sure you can run 22 lands if you are aiming for 2 lands in opening hand but you need 23-24-25 maybe for your actual draws to increase chances of hitting 4-5 land mark by turn 5. Also if you mulligan algorithm doesn't apply to those.
      Only thing you need to consider when it comes to arena is if you are at 25 lands and want 3 lands in opening hand then you bump up to 26 because that 1 land makes all the difference in that case.

  • @31codyskater
    @31codyskater 8 років тому +8

    so you said a 3 year old could get this, sounds legit.

  • @BBBBBBB-j2c
    @BBBBBBB-j2c 8 років тому +1

    Nice new background pic

  • @kyoya941
    @kyoya941 8 років тому +1

    but emrakul is love

  • @kikijiki4230
    @kikijiki4230 8 років тому

    Yes all the modern decks run anticipate and expidite.

  • @-ZH
    @-ZH 6 років тому

    I picked 15 card and run 4 copies of them so I put 0 lands in it

  • @urbanizer7467
    @urbanizer7467 8 років тому

    ok the term you've been talking about is mutually exclusive I've watched you struggle long enough lol

  • @MyAverageLife01
    @MyAverageLife01 8 років тому

    I love contingency plan

  • @artoriasabysswalker9773
    @artoriasabysswalker9773 7 років тому

    i also use a three color dragon deck

  • @fidrewe99
    @fidrewe99 3 роки тому

    I don't see why to put in cards for scrying just to save lands. I mean, this uses up the extra slots for spells, which are the whole point of reducing the amount of lands.
    And well, if you have gained one extra turn of not pulling crappy stuff you don't need, you're at zero, because drawing the card for scrying has just cost you one turn. If you were drawing good stuff anyway, you've lost a turn.
    Scry 1 doesn't even garantee fixing a bad draw. Scry 3+ is so much better. At least, a scry card replacing a standard land should give an extra benefit compared to the land.

  • @nathanreiber6819
    @nathanreiber6819 4 роки тому

    so how badly has migratory greathorn broken this theory?

  • @TheNdoki
    @TheNdoki 8 років тому +2

    Damn, this video didn't help me at all with my current weird deck. Good advice for my other decks though.

    • @TheNdoki
      @TheNdoki 8 років тому

      Barack Obama
      It's just an infinite sliver deck I threw together. I actually got a turn 9 win with it with only 1 land out

    • @TheNdoki
      @TheNdoki 8 років тому

      Barack Obama
      It's mostly based around using some sort of doubling season/dual nature/can't remember the name of the third one to break sliver queen's activated ability to create infinite slivers with infinite strength and toughness, haste, trample, mana, and indestructible.
      The enchantments itself slow it down a lot, but with 4 birds of paradise, 4 dark rituals, and 8 2 mana 1/1 slivers that can be tapped for mana, it doesn't need much to get started.