The Net Deckers Rant - Why Net Deckers are the Worst Thing in MTG
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 гру 2024
- There is one perpetual, awful disease in the world of Magic the Gathering and it is net deckers. Almost everything wrong with the game is their fault. The worst part is, the main tenants of why they net deck are misleading and inaccurate. I hate them all so here's a rant about them. In it, I destroy every bit of false logic these scumbags use to defend their actions while also outlining the damage they do to the game. If you disagree with the points I make in the video, wake up because you're wrong.
Follow me on Twitter for awesome decklist updates, tips, sneak peeks of upcoming videos, etc: / desolatormagic
"If you want to win a competitive event, you better not net deck."
"Bring a (random) deck that has a (arbitrary number not supported by evidence) advantage over your opponent!"
"I don't care about competitive anyway."
Rofl.
I find these seemingly contradictory statements to be a theme on this channel at times. My favourite was (imprecise quotes) "I don't care who has the biggest channel with mtg content" yet "You're all completely wrong about the size of my channel. you are all talking about number of subs, but actually number of views is what matters, and this channel totally kicks ass in that score, so I can't believe this is even a thing. Unbelievable, guys, get it right."
FWIW, personally I would never build my standard deck based completely on an online pro-tour deck. But that suits me. I still look at an analyse them. If you follow one closely... well good for you. None of my business, hopefully my advantage is that I understand my deck better and can get the win that way.
Ultimately, I attend tournaments to play a game, so it's all about gameplay, enjoying ourselves, and winning/losing in a good way on the day. I wish more mtg players played more sports when they were younger. I honestly think that would help decrease the social deficiencies a lot of LGSs face at times.
I like how des let you post this dumb comment. So that i could call you dumb :D
@@lancefranklin9425 thats the biggest load of nothing i ever read.
What is your fucking point lmao
@@lancefranklin9425hush up troll
Global warming, Hurricane Katrina, WWII, nickelback, Kardashians... Net Deckers.
Net deckers have ruined my childhood. Someone must do something!
@@hometownhobbies103You are confusing the symptom for the disease.
@@joelanderson5285 i was joining in on the sarcasim. But the small truth to it is when we played then rarely would you sit at a table with someone that had a similar deck as you not to mention the exact same deck card for card
"You can't actually disagree with logical facts" - perfect.
One of my favorite things about Magic is building my own decks. Testing them out, tweaking them, etc. No fun in copying someone else's idea. Building your own deck that turns out to be awesome is a great feeling.
That's great, but some people don't like doing that
@@thingonometry-1460 Some people don't like going to work, don't like taking a shower, don't like using basic manners or having any empathy for others.
You're allowed to be a piece of shit, sure - but we don't have to quietly respect your decision to do so.
There was so much salt in the room when I won game day with a $40 BR madness burn deck against 35 people playing $400 decks
that is awesome. :)
Gg
wow nice job
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏every healthy player in this comments section applauses to you my dude
Nice job, I took down my game day with seasons past
"Net deckers shot JFK" -DesolatorMagic 2016
LMAO! Nice
Dude I want to thank you this video gave me and my friend an hour of laughter with your views on netdeckers.
Yes. It is also fun to see all the net deckers get triggered! :D
@@joshuanorris5860 Hello from the future. Y’all still mad about people looking up decklists online?
Unless you play Pauper Kamigawa Block Tiny Leaders you are a filthy netdecker.
this* +1
Overall I have an above 50% winning record in the last 3 years at FNM and I've never played a net deck ever. So I guess you're wrong.
I was scoffed at by a netdecker for NOT bringing a net-deck to FNM. It was during Theros/RTR standard and the big decks were mono-blue devotion aggro and r/g ramp. I was running a B/G ramp/stompy deck [that I always try to build] it had corpsejack menace, the uncounterable GX X/X hydra, polukronos, rubbleback raiders, desecration demon, and other 4+ power for 5 or less mana b/g creatures [preferably that used +1/+1 counters].
when it worked it was rediculous, but it wasn't what anyone else was playing so i was crazy. had a 50% win record, but had fun with a deck of my design
I was watching the New Jersey open and I was almost dying from overdosing on bant company and temurge because every game was identical, and then they start covering a rouge deck just filled with crazy 1 ofs and seemingly unrelated cards that all came together and EVERY turn was a surprise, the twitch chat was freaking out. It the decks that find sneaky synergies that I love.
"cant bring a 50/50 deck"
jund is top tier
I love building my own decks. I got into magic about a month before Spooky Moon and my collection is quite small right now. I have two decks, a green-splashed blue deck built from my friends leftovers and improved through really lucky boosters based around deck manipulation and outplaying my opponent through tactics and well thought moves (Contingency Plan, Pore over the Pages, Engulf the Shores and Part the Watetveil are my playmakers). And a White/Black creature/enchantment/lifegain deck with all of the corresponding transformation cards (2 Lone Rider's for damages, Peace of Mind to get Delerium, Strange Augmentation the works. Still holding out for Gisela to finish the deck) And I just cry at the end of every tournament when I get completely stomped by net-decked Infect and Burn and that one green deck that's actually really cool and original but is so scary agro it out-speeds burn decks by several turns. The pain.
Did you book an appointment with the doctor considering how much your butt hurts?
i will look at top tier decks to get ideas for a basis for my deck, i dont hit copy paste, but i will find a good shell, then make a spin on that, like i played a mardu control deck at game day that i bassed off the BW control deck, does that count as a net deck?
I look for the top tier decks just to see what they are using for their win condition. then either steal the win condition in a different deck or steal the rest of the deck and change the win condition.
sounds about what i do
+VengfulDarkness But isn't it possible that the deck is best as they have it? There's no value in changing things just to be different, especially if you haven't tested the deck to see where improvements can be made.
Yosef Estill i can see your point
i agree but what i would do is to change the deck to have a slightly better matchup against myself so that when it come down to playing the mirror match i have a significant advantage yet still have the overall power of the deck .
I've net decked once I had a really good pure red black deck when kaladesh came out and beat the shit out of people but then aetherworks marvel beat me 3 times in a row and instead of learning to adapt I poured all my salt into evil and netdecked marvel and lost everygame I learned my lesson the hard way
There are only so many ways to build a deck in a format with a limited pool of cards. Pros have the time and resources to research and test. Their decks will statistically be better, be more consistent because that is what their testing has culminated into. Yes, once a deck has seen success, everyone will now be watching/sideboarding for it, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a successful deck. That isn't to say that there arn't different ways to build/new ways to build the same deck, but At the end of the day, even if Pro lists didn't show up anywhere, Pros would field very similar lists eventually, as would anyone with good knowledge of the metagame.
Kinda agree with you there is the banned list for formates didn't get bigger and bigger each year it would be great like I understand the reason for stander but for mondern and pioner and others should have a banned list
I play in a game store where some of the best players netdecks and even more likes to use slightly modified versions of net decks (bant coc humans for example) and as someone who likes to brew I find it useful to know what I am going to go up against. Everyone is also very friendly, we have a whole bunch of judges that helps keep everyone playing fairly. Personally I don't mind people netdecking and I also understand why someone that dosn't like the deckbuilding aspect of the game would just make a deck that has been performing well, everyone want to win after all.
Last FNM I played (years ago) I played black green agro-infect. It was a solid deck that was consistent as hell. Turn 5 emrakul hard cast. If I got lucky and dodged all the blue Jace decks I would consistently make top 4. But if I had to face those net decks I was done.
I completely agree, I just go on the internet and look at a cool idea and im like "Lets make a deck!" Then all of the cards are 20 dollars and I regret my life. I always play on a budget and I normally have fun, the most I have ever "NetDecked" was when I saw standard vampires and I started frothing at the mouth because I love vampires. Thanks for making this video and keep up the great work
I've been trying to build a bad azz vampire deck over and over it's hasn't been the best do to I work with cards I have or if I'm lucky get from drafts.
Ive been agest netdecking but it's getting to the point where I may just give in and do it to have a great vampire deck lol
Hi, On which software are you playing on ?
Xmage if you're still there
Completely agree100%. I've made a homebrew (posted on tapped out. `Lancer's Toolbox,' my name there is DarkAxis) that is highly competitive that's beaten the last two Pro Tour winning decks. Netdecking doesn't make you a good player. It just makes you good with that one deck.
how are you running xmage, i keep getting a server offline message everytime ive tried to log on either i have buggy software or something is going on
Netdecking is inevitable in any customizable card game with a fixed pool of cards.
I love playing black decks against net deckers cause there are so many hardcore hate cards. I played a mono black deck at a modern tournament with 14 creatures and 26 removal cards including 2 copies of Damnation. I sideboarded 4 copies of surgical extraction, 4 copies of infinite obliteration and 4 copies of heroes downfall. I faced R/G Tron 4 times that night and went 2 and 0 every game. The creatures were nasty as well cause I ran cards like Phyrexian Obliterator, Gatekeeper of Malakir, and Heir of Falkenrath.
you're ignoring the fact that the Pro's will often stay on a net deck throughout a standard season, changing it's 75 depending on the meta and what the other decks that show up are. I'm not saying you're wrong about a bunch of new players just buying bant company because it did well- but net decking is part of high-level play. You mentioned Travis Woo earlier, who recently was playing a B/W control deck that was almost identical to Lucas Blohon's PT winning deck, just with some changing around. That is Net Decking. CORRECTLY.
Those decks aren't really that similar, Lukas played creatures while twoo banked on oath of Liliana and more walkers, also different card selection in the 75.
hey des what do you think of blohans black white control?
What are the upsides of xmage compared to cocatrice
As a fairly new player what is the best way to obtain a good amount of cards of a decent quality? So far my collection is less than 600 cards and I only really go to drafts since my decks are pretty bad.
Best part of playing during Unlimited, no internet for most players.
+DesolatorMagic What do you think about using a 100 card, singleton deck in modern or standard? Is it completely viable in how current standard decks are being made?
The reason I ask, is because I got into MTG through EDH and commander, and have always loved the format and never was into making a deck that's x4 of a few cards.
That will not be viable at all. There's a reason why people always run the minimum number of cards in any format, it makes decks more consistent. Running 61 cards in standard is 99% of the time worse than running 60 cards. Singleton is also inefficient if you're limiting yourself to that. You won't always run 4x of any card, but running only 1 of each card is going to be less consistent if any of your cards are worse than any of your other cards.
Hmm, I see. So standard formats are based more around a consistency.
Learning how to make a deck is hard, and sucks...
But I will persist!
Yeah, I got 3rd place at Game Day with a Golgari scions aristocrat list I made with the help of a friend, losing only to said friend and a 350$ Bant Company list. My deck cost 15$ and a borrowed Ulamog. Maybe I didn't win, but there were obvious improvements if I felt like putting in more effort, namely more languishes, cryptolith rite and Emrakul. That deck is so much fun, and crushes selesnya weenies for reasons I don't quite understand.
I brought a bant awaken deck to the last game day - made top 8 with it. Nothing is more satisfying than watching your opponent with a copy paste deck receive 10 damage by a land creature.
What if I have a deck but need the last 10 cards and looked up common cards in tournaments but the deck shell is mine. Is that wrong?
If so someone let me know. Rather not be seen as an asshat in mtg
I feel like i have basically the perfect magic haven, because I live on a remote pacific island and none of my community can afford net decks. This creates a pretty much new format called maybe , the shit noone wants. I love this as all our decks are gimmicky and noone can steamroll. it is all skill based and not who has the biggest wallet.
i played casually with friends and sometimes at my local game store. so basically we used whatever cards we had from any expansion. i could beat everyone i knew, except one person. he relentlessly beat me. it actually finally got to the point where no one would play me except him, then it got to the point where i wouldn't even play him anymore. years later i discovered his decks were net decks worth at minimum hundreds and some approaching close to a thousand dollars.
this discovery left me both happy and bitter at the time. happy that it meant that i out played or out constructed every other person i'd met, but bitter that i really had never had a chance at beating the other guy, due to a mixture of money and and the best information the net could provide.
That's why whenever I teach someone to play magic, I always tell them to only look up decks as a template as to not be lazy. To this day, my greatest achievement is a UR human deck with only common and uncommon humans from Innistrad block I gave as a present for a friend. We'll play 3/4 player games and he always finds a way to play the deck diffrent from the last and come close to taking the win.
How is templating any better? Yeah, you can learn a lot by doing that, but you can learn even more by just copying a deck to start. There will be a lot of subtle things that can be missed by templating.
It's all about how you approach it mentally.
+Yosef Estill you're ruining mtg. Templating is better because you can at least oh I don't know have some counters to the decks idiots like you copy. I bet you lose 90% of all the games you play at fnm
+Yosef Estill your implying that that is how I build every single deck. first off, that's lazy reasoning. But more importantly, it's wrong. If I have an idea for a deck, I check certain net decks to see how other people have used some of the cards I intend on using to see if it's something with versatility or just a one trick pony so I know how I'm going to build from there.
Tyler Danielewicz
Ok. lol
M8 I mostly agree with your argument. Net decking takes away an excellent mechanic of MTG or CCGs in general. The customisation, I mean, I enjoy MTG because the deck I built myself is somewhat a part of my magic player identity. I'm the guy who runs mono-green landfall and I'm proud. And that feeling is something that compels me and I'm sure many other players. But I've realised a flaw in your argument. You said that every player should come up with their own ideas(all netdeckers should quit) But, there are only finite number of syngeries within MTG. Thus not everyone can come up with their own ideas(at least not absolute garbage ones) looking on the Internet for cool new strategies and egines not only brodens players horizons, but also is inevitable due to the above statement. If your reading this desolator, I'd love to hear your reply
I agree with some of this. But, lets go to the Pro Tour, the pros test everything, every deck idea from continuation of already popular decks to homebrews. So they go out and play in the Pro Tour. G/B Delirum etc dominate. You have to remember, G/B Delirum started out as a homebrew. Every non-preconstructed deck starts out as a homebrew. So you have Bant Company, G/B Delirum, U/R Thermo etc, if you make a homebrew, it has to be able to beat these decks, and for the most part, it won't be able to, because if there was the pros probally would of found it. The last Pro Tour everyone was trying to find the deck that beats Bant Company and through homebrewing they found that G/B Delirum is. That was the competitive homebrew of the set!
Actually it was mainly zombies beating bant, but it didn't do too well against other decks, so people stopped playing it.
And then bant started rising again, now it's looking like Bant Company, Temur Emerge and Izzet Burn as the top tier.
gamer7916
GB delirium is actually not top tier at the moment. Neither is BU zombies, both are currently tier 2.
Smileycorp It made Top 8 of the Pro Tour.
It was basically a 1 hit wonder, it didn't have what it needed to consistantly top 8.
I like the term playing a stock deck or standardized deck more than net-decking now. A few points;1. there are not a lot of deck builders anymore even among "pros". The majority just plays what wins or what is proven.2. adding to your point, many just don't have time or funds to put together decks that might be good or might be the bane of the "net decks". Most just invest their time and money into one or maybe two decks so they want something that is proven to be at least competitive and can occasionally win.3. if you band net deck players, FNMs at most stores would have 0-2 players show up. LoL...4. Net decks/stock decks/standardized decks started as rogue decks or homebrews or on a forum somewhere. If a deck you created started getting popular and picked up steam and won a big event... would you stop playing it?5. MTG is more about winning and the prizes now more than fun, people are going to play what gives them the best chance to win at any event now. I can understand playing something of your own at a $5 FNM but when the entrance fees are $25-$40 with bigger prizes, guess what, most aren't taking a chance on their rogue creation.6. Its more the attitude of the player than the deck they play7. everyone wants powerful cards. Prices go up. Period. But don't get me wrong, our local game scene when through a period years ago with the net deckers you described in the video. Asses, had to win, poor loses, would drop after one round if they lost, talked trash about anyone who beat them, lost to luck, and so on. They killed the local game scene that went from 30+ players at EVERY event, to not enough to sanction an FNM. Sad. It's more the player than the deck.
I saw a Selesnya Sisters deck from RogueDeckbuilder here on youtube. I thought it looked cool. So I bought all the cheap pieces (since at the time I had most of the mana-base cause I was playing a homebrew Abzan CoCo list). I modified it after Eldritch Moon and I have rarely done horribly with it. 1st time with the current build: 1st place, undefeated; 2nd time: I forget my place but only went 2 W - 2 L; 3rd time: Undefeated til the last round and had to play the only other undefeated player: Affinity. Lost only due to Infect/Poison; 4th time: Lost to a middle or early high school aged kid's Sultai control deck, a rogue deck that used Vraska as a win-con with a lot of removal that killed most of my little sisters without much effort. It was frustrating cause he always seemed to have a removal spell or a Drown in Sorrow right when he needed it and game 1 if I had one extra land I could have saved myself from an embarrassing Vraska assassin with "You-Lose-the-Game-Touch" defeat. Game two would have been mine if not for time cause he played slow, cause he was still new. It was my only defeat in a 3 round tournament that night. As I look back on it, I'm impressed cause oddly he had the perfect sideboard for my deck and I didn't expect it. He boarded in the Drown in Sorrow and even the bane to my deck if I can't remove it: Tainted Remedy. The two others I faced: Mono-green Infect, which our match was close. I lost the 1st and won games 2 and 3. 2 cause I boarded in Melira and 3 cause he couldn't get a creature on board that lasted more than to turn 3. And Grixis Delver; I won both games and game one was pretty tight each of us were down to 2 or 3. I managed to remove his one creature and he said Game 2. Game 2, I managed a Choke and Thalia (EMN) from my sideboard both opening hand with lands enough to play them on curve. A lot of the netdeckers at my LGS were bashing my deck and saying it was complete shit and no-one in their right mind would sideboard specifically for my deck but that child player did have a board that was tailored made to smash my deck (probably not even realizing it) and beat me. I might have gotten first if I had beat him...but in hind-sight I now know not to judge child brews as amateur, training wheels decks, but the element of surprise that can bring my deck down if I am not careful with my plays. And the netdeckers always get frustrated if I beat them with my Selesnya Sisters deck cause they don't know how to sideboard for it, or I have a Selfless Spirit when they try to Pyroclasm/Engineered Explosives/Non-exile boardwipes, etc. And they don't expect my sideboard to be Hatebears modifications with a couple sisters dropped.
I net deck t1 decks to play modern in cockatrice how do I fit into the situation?
also what website is that you're playing on i want to play mtg online but i can't afford it and paper magic plus I've heard a lot of issues with the website
I just don't understand why you won't create your own deck? Its the biggest thing about magic, creating your own game, your own army. A bundle of cards with your personal touch. Its so fun to make them!
Let's say I tried that and got completely stomped, tried again and got stomped, etc. It gets demoralizing.
And then I lean about someone who offers free deck building advice to help me create a deck which has a chance, and it's using the cards I like to play. Some people will say "No, I want to work this out" and some people will say "Yeah this is kind of getting annoying, can you help me figure out a deck which works better than this pile of crapI've put together?" And then after that deck is built, you learn.
Some of my best homebrew decks have come from looking at and playing net decks because they teach how to build a good deck by example. Some people prefer experimenting for learning, some people learn better from example.
Just like some people like different styles of decks, some people like different aspects of TCGs.
yeah, but before you are good at something, you must first suck at it. I get demolished all the time at fnm, but always get praised about my origanal deck ideas. Goldnight castacator + harmless offering? Who would build a deck around that. Altough I almost never win, i have a lot of fun.
Kevinvdheiden
Different ideas of fun I guess.
That and if you're sucking at a FPS and you look up advice on a map or some combination of weapons that work well together, do people complain there? Not really. You're getting information, but you still need to master the execution.
+w1q2e3r4t5 yea they do in halo the noob combo was the fps coco.
when i was a total noob i built a legacy homebrew bw combo deck that used the lich enchantment plus children of korlis and other lifegain/drain spells. It sucked horribly, yes i stomped people at the store but that's because they had horrible homebrew decks that had no counterspells or enchantment hate. I killed all 3 of my opponents on turn 5 in a multiplayer game by playing lich and draw/ramping into repay in kind. it was fun but god awful against any competent deck. so i netdecked TES and turn one or two killed them lol. but that got boring. Idk
What's your opinion on looking up the tournament decks for reference and then putting your own spin on it?
There is a time and a place for brewing, and that time and place is during releases of new sets. Once the dust has settled and new decks have emerged, it would be illogical for a competitive player to take anything less than whatever Hoogland or Kibler are playing. The reason for that is because they have teams that spend literally hours and hours of their lives testing variants of a specific deck, and work on making it the best possible version. So either you brew some crappy version of a top tier deck or just play the best version. Even then the victory isn't guaranteed, it's just marginalized & the strength's/weakness's of that deck are well understood.
Not gonna lie, I'm brand new to magic (other than playing a lot on the apps and online stuff and I'm pretty much learning important tactical stuff from Des and his videos. When I decided to get the actual cards (in preparation for joining a gaming club at university) I just bought a starter deck that had some of the cards I was used to from the ipad game (Boros Battalion for anyone who cares) and I looked at a couple of battalion cards on Gatherer and bought them online because they looked cool and thought they could work. My deck is probs utter garbage and would get destroyed by any modern one out there but I'm fine with it because I built it myself for fun (using the foundation that the Boros Battalion starter deck gave me) and fun is what I'm in it for. I don't think netdeckers even have fun playing the game because they're so crazy about trying to essentially buy wins
I started listening to the video and although I have to admit I was ready to disagree from the get go, constantly referring to people who netdeck as idiots or scumbags doesn't really help your argument and makes you seem opinionated even though you claim you're being objective.
It just is not true. You're doing the same thing, saying that "most netdeckers don't understand the game" is either a blatant lie or you're very confused. You also fail to understand that most of the decks that win Grand Prix or Pro Tour events were not built by the players piloting them but that they either found out about the decks online or (more often true for a pro tour) had (a) teammate(s) recommend that they play that deck.
+necrogenesis1981 it's through hours of testing and practicing, that's how you learn a deck that you didn't make. I didn't exactly make Abzan seasons past but I definitely mastered it.
+necrogenesis1981 also knowing your whole list by heart helps out
+necrogenesis1981 fair, I gues I really see magic as a competitive outlet. Don't get me wrong, I've brewed my fair share of decks, but when it comes to competitive events, I'd rather take the deck with consistent finishes than a home brew that isn't ready yet since I don't have the time to test.
"I'd much rather"
So it seems to be a matter of opinion for how you prefer to win...
I can see some people who play netdecks being jerks. But plenty of people who homebrew are also, well... they're not the nicest.
"These guys often won't even sit down when matched against me" Please, oh Netdeck slayer, start filming some of these amazing triumphs over those awful netdeckers who seemingly spend their time
dot decking just to ruin the game!
Lmao, NET DECKER DETECTED!
You missed the point
@@joshuanorris5860back off Des balls.
@@ericboylan345 fuck off net decking bitch
Having played since the days of Inquest and Scrye(magazines), net decking killed magic for me.
hey Desolator,
thanks for your videos! I just started playing magic like last month, and your channel has had the best data for explaining concepts in the community I'm unaware of.
This video is only one of many that's helped me have more casual fun while respective both game and players.
thanks again!
How much does this apply to modern?
So does looking at the decks you build and copy or change a bit counts or just pro decks cause Im a budget player, i check out the mana source and mtg budget to get ideas for cheap fun decks i take to fnm for fun
I've been running Affinity-robots for like 5 years strait and started affinity cause i liked the gameplay and interaction, even when it wasn't doing well! I got my Arcbound Ravagers at 20$ (Canadian) before they shot up in price to 60$. I've been called a "netdecker" just because I like playing affinity and have been playing it ever since i entered the modern format. I even modified the decklist to meet my personal taste (Adding personal touches such as "rancour"... barely resembles a Robots deck on a top 8 deck list anymore), and I still got flak at my LGS, even though I'm a 300$ deck playing against these 1000$ super- decks (I even made affinity because it was the right combo of competitive for a cheap price). Moral of the story, a$$holes come in both colours; netdeckers and non-netdeckers. Also I like what you said "Every netdeck was once a rogue deck". I think the problem is that a deck thats competetive, in modern at least, will usually cost a buttload to be competetive because DUAL-LANDS. No matter if you rogue or not, lands drain your wallet, so i feel the only way to beat the pay-to-win problem in modern right now with rogue is to play mono colour. It's limiting when the most efficient dual lands are 30-60 bucks and that if you dont fork out that dough, you could put yourself behind a turn on turn one or two, for example!!
I don't do the whole probabilities thing, outside of knowing the basics of "more cards equals more opportunities to draw that card," but I do follow the curve and pay attention to the various interactions between cards. As a side note, I run a Modern Mono Blue Artifact deck featuring Master of Etherium, Wurmcoil Engine, Ensoul Artifact, and Sharding Sphinx. I like it because I never win a game (or lose a game) the same way twice
thanks for explaining what net decking really is, cause I try to find paupers that I need play sets of, plus I really want to make a fun book collection showcasing the art and history of expansions, based according to planes lol. takes a while but if I'm buying some singletons online I may as well buy old ones as a one off to make this. feels exciting to get those cards still, and I'm glad I don't play standard outside of drafts, I just live in a community that it's hard to find a tourney. net decks would suck here and do.
Des how do you get your deck ideas?
What colors do you normally play?
So is looking around at deck lists online for something similar to what you're brewing net decking or research?
So. Is building a list I saw online that I thought was cool - when it hasn't had any specific 'high level' results - net decking? I like to be competitive, but I will admit that brewing specifically is not what I enjoy about Magic. I enjoy fun interactions and synergies - not finding them, but using them - and playing a deck, getting to know the insides and outs of a deck, lines of play, and so on. Is that specifically netdecking?
Worth noting that that is in part why I don't like playing standard. I like to play a deck and have it be at least decently competitive for... well, more than 3 months.
+Dave Ellis did you watch the video
Nah dude net decking is taking a tournament top eight deck and jacking prices in doing so. For instance: everyone at my LGS is almost exclusively playing Bant Company because it's been doing well in the pro scene.
+Zachary Wilson same a lot of players have stopped till bant company is gone. so it's just bant circle jerk at fnm
what site are you using to playtest?
Des could you make a video about your deck building creative process, please :)
He has some. But yes i want more of this too!
This was a problem in the 90’s literally has been there from the start. I’ve gone 3rd in a tournament with my own made deck.
I do agree with you that net deckers only play half of the game. MTG is a game where you BUILD a deck and play it against your friends, not one where you COPY someone else's deck and play with it.
On a side note, I have a friend who has been running a planeswalker super-friends deck since Oath of Nissa arrived to fix his mana (well before Deploy the Gatewatch was even spoiled). I played him last gameday with my UW spirits deck (homebrew, for the record). I lost game one after getting stuck on two lands for a couple turns. After sideboarding into a more aggro deck, I won games 2 & 3. It would have been close game 3 without being able to Spell Quell his Languish.
Anyway, a spirits deck can beat a planewalker deck by attacking quickly and weathering removal with 4 each of Selfless Spirit, Mausoleum Wanderer and Spell Queller. I do agree with the rest of what you said.
Forgot to include Rattlechains (and Essence Flux, if you run it) as an answer to targeted removal.
What if I played black white control since oath of gate watch? Am I still a net decker?
I net deck and I don't complain when I lose, but I can make a deck and win at my local fnm!!
+Ethan De Luna I take 10 min to make a deck
what is this software he is using in the background?
I built a tiny reanimater deck for Pauper Night at my LGS and I was disappointed that I couldn't find similar builds online to help me smooth my curve; but it was apparent after a few rounds that it doesn't have an online presence because A. People built it better two different ways with Goblins and with 3 or 5 color Zubera Storm B. My deck wins on turn 8 everything else wins on turn 4, 5, 6
Is it ok if I make durdle out of the mill deck with cards that no one really play? Oh wait it didn't come from the top 8 results so yeah.
Hey Des, do you think Net Deckers put their cereal in the bowl before the milk or after the milk?
Does your opinion apply only to standard or all formats? It seems unlikely for someone to win at legacy or even classic pauper w/o net decking at least a template of a deck.
I don't even pay attention to tournaments or the decks used in them. I just build decks from what I have in my collection.
But then, there aren't any LGS's in my area.
The price of card sleeves is too damn high!
I look at online decks because it lets me see what other people build.
I just want perspective so I can see the bigger picture, see what other people do differently, and figure out why.
I don't copy builds to a tee, I usually look at 5 different versions of the deck, and use them to form an educated oppinion before I build my own deck.
That says nothing about my attitude.
I take losing gracefully, and even when I don't win, I enjoy playing my decks.
You should take a look at wabafet stall in Pokemon Richmond VA regionals. It shows how net decking can't work in most tcgs. It is a deck that would win in no other circumstances other than the metagame at the event.
so if I copied a deck from a series like against the odds, that's not netdecking, right?
Right.
+Will lowry good. some of those decks are hilarious.
it is even though he says it isn't
This is such a silly and arbitrary way to look at deck building.
Nah. I really want to construct Des' "Surprise!" aka mono back ambush deck, then oufit it for modem play with my friends. That doesn't make me a netdecker. Netdeckers copy the top decks for the sole sake of winning. Me, I just like mono-black.
What I do is I'll homebrew a deck, then I'll look around forums where other people have built something similar and I'll look for differences. Then, I'll playtest both decks (I usually use tappedout, so it's nice and easy to do so). If mine wins more, I know I did a good job and I'll playtest against some high tier decks going around to see how it fares. If the other deck does better, I'll see what cards put in more work and I'll try em out
Honestly, even though I don't net deck, I really don't have a problem with it. I just think it's great that they're playing the game. I can also recognize that some MtG players are pretty busy people. My LGS even has my old Chemistry teacher as a semi-regular, and that guy is a bloody perfectionist when it comes to his classes. He net decks simply because he's more devoted to his actual career rather than some game that he'll sit down and play a couple times a month. Should I declare that this lovely old guy is the biggest piece of shit plague to ever happen to Magic?
I feel like it's pretty shitty of someone to say that someone is playing a game wrong, and they're the worst thing to ever happen to the game... just because they don't play EXACTLY how they play...
does this apply to modern?
It's kinda like getting the answers ahead of time on the test and then getting graded on how well you can reproduce those answers
+nerdmeat less like a test, more like an essay. Look up an argument online, then copy/paste on a word processor.
+DesolatorMagic what are your thoughts on net decking for the purposes of modern and legacy. Someone finds a deck they like and builds it then plays it for months/years. In modern and leagcy there aren't really "Best decks". Of course the deck someone has copied has won a tournemnt but does this make them the net deckers you hate?
You're probably not going to come up with a deck that nobody else did in such a stale, old format BUT if you have a deck overall 10% worse than a tier 1 deck, that's enough to win 2 out of 3 matches reliably. My 4 modern decks are utterly insane and hard to beat and nobody has ever built anything quite like any of them. My new Beam Me Down deck looks downright impossible to beat. It's traditional Draw-Go Maxed out and there is literally 1 card that can beat it. Not even a deck. A CARD. We'll see if it's as good as it looks during testing.
I have built a lot of the decks you've showcased on this channel just to see if they were remotely competitive in a teir 1 modern environment. " Seal team six " got absolutely destroyed. Beholder just flat folded as it doesn't have a way to gain significant card advantage or answer multiple threats a turn. I'm not trying to be hateful and say these decks were bad or not fun to play. Beholder was a blast to just counter stuff and put things on scepter but that doesn't mean I still didn't lose the vast majority of games. Sadly "Being a lot of Fun" doesn't make a deck win grand prixs.
Jacob Ballington
Wow you sound like a reeeeeally bad MTG player then.
@desolator You're a fucking idiot.
JopeSane
I have a 6 hour per week job and have zero interest in the sponsorships and kissing WOTC's ass to get camera time and catching every other opponent cheating and the qualifying and grinding and net deck tracking and all the other crap.
It doesnt take skill to pilot a deck, it takes skill to make one
Wow, you're an idiot
@@DesolatorMagic I am? I thought I was agreeing with you on hating netdeckers.
If you use a Top tier Standard Deck at Gameday That just came out of the protour to try it out but then use a Homebrew at FNM are you a net decker?
I usually use net decks as points of reference to make a deck out of cards I have and like. I don't like hard coping, but I do consider them good starting points to making your own (on tapped out). Also, I'm somewhat new to the game, and hear "percentage of consistency" thrown around every once in a while, and I think I understand the term, but have no idea how to test for it. Any tips?
The only time I net deck is when I proxy a deck to put up against my RG Werewolves for test matches before FNM and fine tuning my deck.
I'd say it's a good thing to search for ideas and then look at decks that operate with the idea that you want and then you can copy that if your goal is to just get into a new format (whether that means new standard rotation or your first time into modern). Consistently winning or placing in FNM requires you to identify what the meta is and identify all the net decks are and how to beat those, which will take at least 2 FNMs. It's absolutely silly to think you can straight copy a deck and expect to be the best especially when everyone knows about it.
There really needs to be a "however" right before consistently lol
I MADE MY DELIRIUM DECK FOR GAMEDAY (Eldritch Moon) BEFORE ANY TOURNAMENT THAT I KNEW OF!!! I feel proud. Granted it wasn't at all the same as any variant I saw so could you consider that netdecking?
I totally agree with you. Half of magic is formulating decks. If you aren't doing that you aren't playing magic.
Magic is all about the deck. No matter what.. one deck can lose to another. Net deck or not your deck will have its reckoning, you can’t beat everything; even if you draw perfectly. that’s why we have sideboards.
I don't know I've got a G/R aggro (modern) deck that's placed top 4 two weeks running at a casual tournament I play at. (Lost to UW control this past week and a mono green elf forest walk deck the week before)
Goblins rock! I don't know the first thing about any 500 dollar-deck - I'm guessing it would have to be good; that means lightning fast and hitting like a machinegun spitting mini-nukes, when you play goblins. I stopped being active, basically, back in 2001 or something. But what I do know about goblins is that it is the most consistently strong deck-type throughout all the years I played. Always it was either win huge or lose huge with those guys, and always spectacularly so no matter which. - - - I'm experiencing a sort of mtg-revival as a player on steam playing magic origins. I got five working decks, my second most winning deck is a goblin deck. The most winning is a a deck featuring vampires that eats - guess what - goblins. Can't live without em.
Oh, and on topic: I don't mind net-deckers, really. I can see how they mess with you when you want a specific card to try out in a new deck you thought up. But come on. Use a proxy, or make do with what you get out of a boster-pack; trade for it if you can't let it go - or better yet: play for it. I know what people say about playing for ante, mostly that it is the stupidest thing ever. But that's because they got their wallets talking for them. The magic-part of the game wont come out entirely untill you play for ante. Obviously not from your deck, but some from your collection that you would otherwise have up for trade, and that you have mulled over with your opponent and HIS ante-cards before starting play. To my mind, buying cards face-up is exclusively collector-stuff. I did it once, buying an Icy Manipulator at something like 70 dollars. A month or so later Ice Age came out, sporting a reprint. I was an exceedingly bitter man those days, and that's when I learned the lesson. I've sold lots of cards, though. So it's not like I'm holy or anything.
Clarifying: If i make decks that are based off of and not identical to decks that i found on the web, though they are not top tier decks, is it netdecking?
Net Deckers are always complaining. They spend so much money. But they never win when we play limited.
Hey that reminds me! They can't build a deck to save their lives and at my former LGS they always got super pissed that I crush them at limited.
I haven't been able to get first place yet at FNM. We usually have about 4 net deckers taking those slots. But I have gotten second place at a Prerelease. I also shared first place in sealed Two-Headed giant. I know I'm better than them and will continue to get better than them.
+DesolatorMagic hey des when I first started Id look at the list for the top tier deck and checked they way everyone played it and considered how I wanted to play it. Purely because I didnt have enough card knowledge yet.
+DesolatorMagic I also have played competitive yugioh for years and am slowly switching to magic I will say in yugioh its easily 10x as fun to play a rouge deck and destroy people just because the way the game is designed.
What about people that build netdecks for the purpose of testing the matchups?
I agree to a certain point, i dont like net Deckers who just think they can win with a net deck just because its considered, the best deck And lose because of the misplays they make due to them not knowing what the deck they are playing is actually trying to do, but i like net decking in the way that you cab try the deck out to see what it is doing And then try to come up with a counter strategy, this way you know what the deck tries to do cuzz you played it a little, or stick with it because you like the. Deck, thats what i did with bant company, i love the way it plays, but my build is slightly different than the netdecks because like to play certain cards.
But in short, i dont like net Deckers in general but i get it if people would do it to understand why the best deck is the best deck And try to beat it, does that sound fair enough😜
Honestly, this whole video comes off like you complaining about gravity.
You are so goddamn stupid
at least he isn't the one complaining about gravity
You litterally clicked on a video with RANT in the title. What in the fuck did you expect, besides ranting about netdeckers. Please, id like to know.
Gravity is inevitable. Netdecks are just the flavor of the month and those that play them prove you have no original deck making skill
Hush up troll
I rarely make top 8 for the simple reason I don't follow pro magic. Watching others play and studying top decks does not interest me at all, consequently, I often don't know what i'm up against and lose. I have accepted that fact because building decks and making my opponent work for the win is how I have fun. There are at least a dozen game stores in a 10 mile radius of my home with a lot of net dickers and some really cool people too. I can tell the difference because the original thinkers will want to talk about my deck after a match and the nd's get angry and blame mana screw, mana flood, or whatever and drop if I win. People that are so competitive they'll do or pay anything to win are what really takes the fun out of any game.
I use three color decks mostly because I'm comfortable using them. And I do my best to be creative with my decks. And I personally don't like netdecking and people who do it.
just asking, does net-decking count as finding a good concept or creature online to base your deck on but not copying it card for card?
No, I use EDHREC,it's a amazing asset. I do fill my deck with recomendations but then I know some cards I love and I put them in,no matter how good they are.
my scene is really odd. the LGSs in my area only seem to do draft. no modern and almost no standard. it's really annoying. I live for the build process and its a killer knowing you can't really play live.
thank you for the knowledge of xmage. also I have to say, I look for your vids everyday on here >_> and I may listen to a few more than 3x. GG
Hey Des. Building decks must be at least a little bit complicated (I wouldn't know I've only build two really bad ones). But could you give us some pointers or tips on building decks? That'd be nice. Love your vids
The only practical use for netdecking is for research not for application. Learn an archetype if your new to the game.... but that's about it. I love it when you preach des.
Hey +DesolatorMagic - what do you think of net decks as a learning tool? For the I-don't-have-an-LGS noobs?
TLDR - that's a freaking essay: Noobs (like me) without an LGS can learn a lot to get them started from net decking, due to all the articles, videos, etc available. However there's a lot to learn beyond that, which I agree then requires something like brewing which engages you on a different level.
When I joined the game about 6 months ago net decks were really helpful for me. I learned to play with a budget standard goblins deck (net deck). The price was a little inflated by being a net deck, but being budget goblins it wasn't exactly tier 1 prices. Or even tier 2....
I don't think I would have persevered into learning the game properly without that deck. I don't really have an LGS I can hang out at to rack up casual games (job, distance, hours, gf, etc) so online was pretty much my only source for both info and gameplay. There were videos to explain the deck, explain the plan, and show me some games. I knew what I was trying to do before game 1 of Standard. I still misplayed and misclicked myself to plenty of losses, but at least I knew what I was attempting! And when the last goblin lay dead and my opponent hit me for 30 I usually knew why I had lost - so much learning!
I then tried brewing, which was a much more painful learning process. I smiled for the first month of learning to brew, content with an occasional win. I frowned for the next month, trying to figure out how to build something that could win more! I'd look to net decks for card inspiration, and to figure out the required power levels & speed. Articles, UA-cam and Twitch kept up a constant stream of gameplay and tips, as I slowly pealed back layers of understanding. It took time, and some gobbos to put a smile back on my face occasionally, but I got to a point where I felt I could build a deck that I could call mine that didn't totally suck. I learnt more going through this process of brewing, playing, refining and researching than I had in all my previous games combined. It wouldn't have meant much to me however without being able to play those games first and get a feel for the format. It let me find somewhere to start without getting disheartened.
The other thing I found an essential part - limited. Specifically, friendly sealed leagues where you can spend days building a deck. Very noob friendly deck building, and a great format for learning all about value.
Nowadays I'm running a standard Grixis Cat Pact brew, which I tweaked after that dude came 8th at GP Portland with a version. I know why every card is there, and why certain cards aren't in there. I know my game plan, because I built it. And I now have less weaknesses, because I optimised it with a little GP top 8 wisdom. Sideboarding is so much easier when you know how & why all the pieces fit together.
I still brew Standard, but for my daily brew I now visit pauper - the draft chaff plane where your craziest deck ideas never cost that much, and brewing a deck based around Bant Sureblade is totally viable. Maybe we should send all the net-deckers to Pauper for a compulsory month of cheap crash-course-crazy-brew? Can you imagine what it'd do to the Standard meta if everyone had an eye for brewing?
(Warning for the Noobs: Having an LGS and playing with someone helpful is nearly always better than being purely online to learn - nothing can beat being able to ask the questions you want, when you want, and in a relevant situation that has arisen. It's not easy to get good, relevant insight into your play online. You'll also usually remember and understand it better, as the brain likes doing and learning at the same time. If you have an LGS and are learning, go hang out and play if you can!)
Counterpoint: I'm not a very good deckbuilder yet. I try, but I only have a 5-11-1 match record when playing my own homebrew decks, versus a 27-18-1 match record when playing decks that were 90%+ copied from the internet with only a minor tweak or two to match up better against my local metagame. Getting my butt kicked week after week after week because I'm terrible at coming up with my own strategies from scratch isn't very fun. Having at least some reasonable chance at winning is fun.