Call The Midwife. This episode was about the thalidimide babies. Heartbreaking the number of mothers who took a medication intended for good that ended up delivering heavily deformed infants.
There is lots of this kind of thing in the history of Pharma. My mother never took any medicine nor did she give us anything other than household remedies and the time tested vaccinations.
The lie she is referring to is the mother really wanted a daughter after having an boys. The baby was born with no external genitalia, so to comfort the mother, when she asked, Sister Julienne told her it was a baby girl
@lunamoonracer8899 She was an older mother, it was her last chance at a baby. She already knew the baby had died, she was just still really hoping she finally had the daughter she'd prayed for. It brought her a lot of comfort knowing she had a baby girl.
@lunamoonracer8899 when you are not sure, it is not known whether it is a lie. If the only consequence is to give the mother some comfort, it is not cruel at all.
@@christinesbetterknitting4533 I really only consider something to be a lie if the person telling it knows/believes that it is entirely false and says it anyway. If the person telling it believes that what they are saying is true, when in reality it actually is not, then it is not a lie, but simply a false statement. In this situation, there is some truth to the statement in the fact that the child appeared to be female, but they cannot be sure. In this case, the exact truth is unknown, but she has reason to believe that the baby was likely to be a girl, so she said it was
Thats not what she said. She said you didn't have to be a priest to baptise. Priests were rarely called to baptise in cases like this. The nurses would take the baby away immediately and put the baby on the cold step. The mother would be told her baby died without ever meeting them. This is why the nun is upset.
My parents lost faith in the church when they refused to Baptiste my brother, whom died 17 days after he was born from a rare genetic condition. A lovely nun did it herself against orders and was kicked out for it. Neither of them went to church after that and never msde any of us go, and I think i was the only one of my other siblings to be baptised after.
They still should go as people should go to church for God and their own soul not for priest or other people ! I get disappointed with priests in my local then church as they said to parents not to bring children ! I had an argument with young priest as that’s not Jesus said ! Also my grandmother was very saint person and she took all children and grandchildren with her to church ! And my mother said everyone when she was little brought children to church ! When child was too loud or too nutty parents would take it outside…
@pkgapp My mother found God without the need for corrupt Churches and their hypocrisy. I may not be Christian anymore but she believed until the day she died because for her, God did not reside in a building. He was in her heart.
Babies already come pre baptized you don't have to do anything further. I don't know where religion comes up with such nonsense but they have to stop doing it. All babies are blessed all life on this planet is blessed you don't have to do anything further. If you do that's nice but don't make it into some crazy nonsense rule
A friend I grew up with was a thalidomide baby. He grew up missing his lower arm. It never stopped him. Played quarterback at BYU & is in fiber optic cable sales 😊
Good Sheriff! If He was a good Christian, I believe it was allright.... Just Imagine... If a Captain ob a ship can perform a marriage, I am Sure a Sheriff can do a baptism....why Not?
A Catholic nurse I was speaking to on a bus told me that emergency baptisms were part of her training. She said if they could lick their thumbs and stick it on the baby's forehead, then get the words out as fast as humanly possible before the child's heart stopped, then it counted.
Oh no. Three babies with the same malformations… I am guessing this was the era of that morning sickness medication thalidomide (?I think it was called?) that caused horrific birth defects that were often incompatible with life 💔
Oh and it was a midwife who first raised the alarm on the crisis of the thalidomide babies in Australia. The credit went to a male obstetrician though, naturally.
They're is a guy that was born without normal limbs from thermaldiohide and he grew up to be a motivational speaker, he's positive happy & can do anything a person with "normal" limbs can do
Yup, that’s why I despise Catholic Church. They literally stole babies from mothers and starved them and neglected them in a orhphange. They had a chamber underground to put the infants and childrens bodies. Years later they built a playground on top. I remember being horrified. It was in Ireland I believe.
In catholicism they baptize babies to absolve them of the original sin. Though the Catholic Church no longer believes this, it used to be believed unbaptized babies went to limbo. However, now most Catholics believe every infant and child who dies is entrusted to God.
@@M00N.L1GHTAnd if Jesus died for all of our sins then all should be well for innocent babies imo. They don't even know evil thoughts let alone actions.
Historically, yeah it very much is. The only reason the church has gotten less strict about that is because the idea is deeply unpopular and they have enough PR problems as is. It's why miscarried foetuses and stillborns weren't supposed to be buried in consecrated ground. People would sometimes create a loophole around that by burying an unbaptized infant along the edges of consecrated ground (so they were in a limbo between consecrated and unconsecrated ground) or by putting them in the same grave/coffin as a person who had been baptized
Now according to catholic laws you can bury such child in a consecrated ground but what didn't change is the fact that the child still won't go to heaven. I find it cruel that they kind of lie to the parents, doing normal catholic funerals and everything so that parents don't feel bad but they really know that the baby won't go to heaven and they just don't speak about it as it is an unpopular thing to say. I personally no longer believe in any of this partially because of the baby thing. If there is such an unfair god then I refuse to worship him anyway.
@kziele611 The position is that they don't know where the baby goes. But that doesn't mean they go to hell if they don't go to heaven. That's a misunderstanding and is not in alignment with God's character.
Google "catechism of the Catholic church where to unbaptized babies go when they die ". Some misinformed catholics throughout history do not represent the Catholic church nor speak for her.
The most gracious thing the Catholic hospital where I was born was mark on the birth certificate that I was a single birth. They wouldn’t let my mum see the deformed twin. They believed they were being kind.
I can guarantee you 1000%, there are no infants in hell! Jesus was never baptized until He became an adult! Only adults who have the ability to understand sin and still want to do it are culpable. This baby baptism stuff is not in the Bible, and Jesus only preached baptism to adults. What ridiculous religion would preach an innocent infant into an everlasting hell? Oh, I know! One that does not believe in the Word of God
not hell, no, but purgatory, if I remember correctly. supposedly it's not a place of suffering, but it's not a place of everlasting joy and singing cherubs either
@@Mastermint Where is purgatory in the Bible?? Infants are not sinners, and do not have the ability to understand sin. Jesus talks about children as this: Matthew 19:14 Leave these children alone, and don't try to keep them from me, because the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.. Where does Purgatory come from? From a church that charges people money for " masses" so that they can get out of Purgatory sooner? So, if you have a lot of money to pay for masses, then your loved one gets out of purgatory earlier, and if you are poor, then they spend more time there?? Where do indugences come from??? How about gifting more money to a certain religion, that guarantees a shorter sentence in this purgatory experience. Go back and investigate where this came from. I was involved in this religion, went thru their school, etc. I can tell you that when I went to a church that believes in the Bible, it changed my life completely. Jesus never spoke about any Purgatory, ever. Sounds like He said that there are children in heaven. They did not have to do anything to get there. You need to be born again of water and the Spirit, as an adult, now have you done that? Are you more impressed with a certain religion, or the Words of Jesus?
In the past, Catholics believed that unbaptized infants went to “limbo” after death, though that was never a doctrine of the Church. The official teaching is that Baptism is not a requirement to get into heaven, and that we as humans will never fully understand the depth of God’s mercy, so we have no right to say if a soul will or will not go to heaven, regardless of what has happened in their lives.
Before the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Church taught that unbaptized infants go to Limbo, a state between Heaven and Hell where they are not punished but also do not receive the Beatific Vision. However, the 1992 Catechism no longer mentions Limbo, and instead states that the Church entrusts unbaptized infants to God's mercy. Some Lutherans, Anglicans, Episcopalians, and orthodox Christians believe that unbaptized people remain in an intermediate state until Jesus Christ returns. Some churches do not baptize infants because they believe that baptism is not mentioned in scripture, or that baptizing an infant who does not trust in Jesus is not true.
Limbo was never a doctrine - It was a theological theory that’s been left in the past - They teach the baby never left gods mercy and that they remain within his grace!
I have baptized a terminally ill newborn while I was working. I told the doctor after checking the chart that I had done so and he could tell the parents if they asked.
In my religion we believe all children who die go to Heaven and have no need for baptism- after all they are innocent already and saved from the Fall of Adam through Christ
They "un-alived" a baby because it was deformed & they considered it as "unfit to live". I wonder if it was a Thalidomide baby? I wonder what they told the parents?
@@Peridot0000you're totally right but Sister Julienne (the lady above) didn't do it. In fact Sister Julienne tried to help the baby. In fact she was horrified that they did that to the baby.
@@Hakainokami They knew they would cause deformities before it was even released... Because it did so in the animal testing it caused deformitiesin rabbits.. But it showed that the drug crossed the blood brain barrier of the babies.. It was one of those cases where the drug was in such demand, that they just released it anyways, I recommend to look into the story some more, there's a lot of stuff about it that's not widely known
The Catholics baptising babies confuses me; Jesus was baptised at 30. Why do they think the kid has to be baptised to go to heaven? The Bible does not say that; I know it’s just a story but look at how much trauma they’re inflicting on themselves for no reason.
Catholics baptize babies because we believe it washes away original sin (the sin of Adam and Eve). The practice is old as the first Christians albeit implicitly. True, the Bible doesn’t explicitly call for infant baptism but it doesn’t forbid it. St. Paul writes in Col. 2:11-12 “In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ. . . . You were buried with him in baptism.” Historically, Jewish circumcision was performed on 8 day old babies. Any man who wanted to enter the Jewish faith would need to be circumcised to enter the covenant as well as all the males in his household (children included). We live in the new covenant, so physical circumcision is now done spiritually with water as the outward sign without regard to the limits of the old law ( “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”- Gal. 3:27-28. Parents are able to bring their children for baptism in the same way that Jesus raised dead children in the Bible. He did it through the faith of their parents, not the children’s own faith. Be careful watching non-Catholic shows with Catholicism depicted. Take what is shown with a grain of salt- they almost always depict Catholicism incorrectly or without the rational.
Yes. And thalidomide was no longer used to treat morning sickness. And there were massive court cases to try to get compensation from the drug company.
Catholicism is crazy. Believing a baby won't make it to heaven because it wasn't baptised is obsurd. In the protestant faith, all babies and children automatically go to heaven regardless of being baptised. .
Catholics do not believe there is any one thing that will prevent someone from going to heaven except for a conscious rejection of God. The point of infant baptism is to wash away original sin (you want to do that ASAP), and we believe this is doable to a baby through the parent(s) faith. Think of the Bible stories where Jesus raises a child from the dead… He does this through the faith the parents had in Him. We do not know what happens to those who die unbaptized, but we have hope in God’s mercy and forgiveness. So we pray for them.
Thank goodness beinging water baptized. ❤ At any age is not the qualification for going and getting to stay in heaven. The qualifications to realize you are in a world of sin. And that Jesus and his virgin birth and death and Resurrection is faith that Jesus did this for God's creation, we can't do anything for ourselves to save ourselves. Get into the New testament I prefer the King James version did the original translation and on top of all that multiple people died just so that we could get this translation God's. Then when you accepted Jesus and what he did for you you should feel different revived alive you may cry you might not cry. But in your heart of hearts something had changed. Then that is when water baptism sought-after and is next. Now you are filled with the Holy spirit and your name is in the Lamb's book of life. I DO HOPE TO SEE YOU AND OUR FATHER'S KINGDOM NOT MADE HANDS!
I can't understand how anyone would think their loving God would turn away a baby because it wasn't baptized. Blows my mind, doesn't sound very loving.
@@P.O.T.S.andPan You spoke about how you cannot understand how anyone would think God would expect a baby to be baptized. It sounded like you spoke from experience. I know when my daughter died I wanted her to be baptized bc I thought it would make a difference. It was a feeling I had, that I needed her to be. Did you not have that when you lost your child? Sometimes if you have not lost a child, you do not know how it might feel. Did i misunderstand your life experience?
@@KDSima no, I didn't worry about it because she was as innocent as anything could be. Any God who would turn away an innocent baby because they aren't baptized is not a God I'd want to worship. Bit personal of a question to be asking a stranger on the internet though 💁🏻♀️ But it wasn't blaming parents for wanting their baby to be baptized after passing, or if it's terminally ill, people need to do what helps them through stuff. That's not what's happening in this clip. She's a nun, she feels guilty because she didn't baptize the baby before it died. In her beliefs, that baby can't enter heaven.... *That* is what I mean. I feel bad for people like that, she shouldn't hold onto guilt, because if God is forgiving and loving as everyone says, he wouldn't turn away a baby just because it wasn't baptized. It has literally no control over that and has committed no sin.
@silas8772 it's not about gender. it's a human. Say the word baby or soul. So worried for a soul not baptized yet or dying alone but they use the word "it"
Thalidomide--a drug used to help with morning sickness in the '50s. Sadly, it caused all sorts of malformations. I have a cousin with only one arm and one leg due to this drug. I went to grade school with a boy with one arm due to it. It took years to get it figured out and taken off the market.
@@rebekahjimenez2808 it does though. Deformities that render a fetus not incompatible with life would be picked up on ultrasound. The mother could choose to still carry to term, or could choose to terminate- thereby sparing a child from being born into pain, and saving the mother from a more risky procedure.
@@rebekahjimenez2808 yes, but that doesn’t mean similar scenarios can’t play out today, now that RvW was overturned. Only difference is thalidomide won’t be the cause
@averycheesypotato Roe v. Wade was a horrible thing that caused horrible effects on women and children and made it much easier for men to get away with rape, incest, and molestation. Women who have abortions are 113% more likely to abuse surviving children, according to the CDC. Abortions made successive pregnancy more risky and increase the likelihood of all types of feminine cancers. And the list of side effects goes on. The repeal of Roe v. Wade is not a bad thing. But still, it had 0% to do with this clip.
So here, the baby was born so deformed that they couldn't even determine the sex of the baby. Thats why Sister Julienne referred to the baby as "it". Sister Julienne asked Sister Monica Joan, "Would it be a sin to lie?" Sister Monica Joan says a lie with the intention of protecting someone can’t be a sin. So Sister Julienne tells the mother, who desperately wanted a girl and already had 3 sons, that her daughter passed away in her arms... But she didn't have any answers for her about why. I completely understand hating liars... But in this situation, at that time, I get it...
@AnnieSadler96 lies told with evil intentions are evil. Lies told with a genuine wish to do good, I think sometimes can be a kindness. In that situation, I think I'd prefer the lie. I don't think there is sin in preventing suffering.
My grandmother lost a baby to a birth defect in the 60s. Possibly due to thalidomide. We won’t know and never asked. They didn’t baptize him at the hospital they sent him to (3 hours away and she want allowed to be with him). She suffered anguish over that her entire life (and some horrible words from certain types of “Christians” about her baby being in hell. You will never close Vince’s me an innocent baby, just out of the womb, is ever sent to hell or purgatory. That is something man and religion has wrong). A white lie from a priest at the hospital, or anyone-that they baptized her son before he died would have saved her so many sleepless nights and anguish. It would have been an act of mercy.
This was my reason to not get THE vaccination in 2021. Because I remembered that they considered thalidome safe for pregnant women and it mostly was, except if taken during a specific timeframe during pregnancy. And I just wasn't risking my child's health for a new vaccination. The worst is that people still thought I was paranoid and shunned me for my choice.
tbh i dont think thalidome was a vaccination, it was marketed as a pain medication. also medicine is massively more regulated than it used to be. you are allowed to be skeptical but not at the risk of others health, so i hope you stayed away from others so not to spread anything
Call The Midwife. This episode was about the thalidimide babies. Heartbreaking the number of mothers who took a medication intended for good that ended up delivering heavily deformed infants.
It did quite a bit of damage here in Canada 😢
There is lots of this kind of thing in the history of Pharma. My mother never took any medicine nor did she give us anything other than household remedies and the time tested vaccinations.
@@winniefindsthewayhere in Brazil as well.
Those stories are so heart breaking 💔
In the US there were doctors who destroyed their medical files to financially protect themselves against lawsuits.
The lie she is referring to is the mother really wanted a daughter after having an boys. The baby was born with no external genitalia, so to comfort the mother, when she asked, Sister Julienne told her it was a baby girl
That actually seems crueler
@lunamoonracer8899 She was an older mother, it was her last chance at a baby. She already knew the baby had died, she was just still really hoping she finally had the daughter she'd prayed for. It brought her a lot of comfort knowing she had a baby girl.
@lunamoonracer8899 when you are not sure, it is not known whether it is a lie. If the only consequence is to give the mother some comfort, it is not cruel at all.
@@christinesbetterknitting4533 I really only consider something to be a lie if the person telling it knows/believes that it is entirely false and says it anyway.
If the person telling it believes that what they are saying is true, when in reality it actually is not, then it is not a lie, but simply a false statement.
In this situation, there is some truth to the statement in the fact that the child appeared to be female, but they cannot be sure. In this case, the exact truth is unknown, but she has reason to believe that the baby was likely to be a girl, so she said it was
@@lunamoonracer8899 I agree.
She did enough. She was there.
Priests can and do baptise babies that have already passed on if requested to by parents.
If a god demands that even innocent babies need to be baptized to be saved, that is not a good god, and It doesn't deserve to our breath.
So what difference is the baptism going to make. ?
The priest still decides whether they will baptise them or not in that case. Some did not. As cruel as that is.
Thats not what she said. She said you didn't have to be a priest to baptise. Priests were rarely called to baptise in cases like this. The nurses would take the baby away immediately and put the baby on the cold step. The mother would be told her baby died without ever meeting them. This is why the nun is upset.
@@swissherbgirl2917 depending on belief you need to be baptized to go to heaven.
My parents lost faith in the church when they refused to Baptiste my brother, whom died 17 days after he was born from a rare genetic condition.
A lovely nun did it herself against orders and was kicked out for it. Neither of them went to church after that and never msde any of us go, and I think i was the only one of my other siblings to be baptised after.
They still should go as people should go to church for God and their own soul not for priest or other people !
I get disappointed with priests in my local then church as they said to parents not to bring children ! I had an argument with young priest as that’s not Jesus said ! Also my grandmother was very saint person and she took all children and grandchildren with her to church ! And my mother said everyone when she was little brought children to church ! When child was too loud or too nutty parents would take it outside…
@pkgapp My mother found God without the need for corrupt Churches and their hypocrisy. I may not be Christian anymore but she believed until the day she died because for her, God did not reside in a building. He was in her heart.
I also believe that, God and Jesus are in our hearts. Amen❤@Sasunarugalover1369
@Sasunarugalover1369 now that is the truth! He lives in our hearts not in some man made building
Babies already come pre baptized you don't have to do anything further. I don't know where religion comes up with such nonsense but they have to stop doing it. All babies are blessed all life on this planet is blessed you don't have to do anything further. If you do that's nice but don't make it into some crazy nonsense rule
A friend I grew up with was a thalidomide baby. He grew up missing his lower arm. It never stopped him. Played quarterback at BYU & is in fiber optic cable sales 😊
I want to hear Sister Monica Joan's answer to that question.
Her character is SO well written & developed.
When my baby sister passed away she wasnt baptized yet so A SHERIFF performed the religious part so my mom didnt suffer so much ...
Good Sheriff! If He was a good Christian, I believe it was allright....
Just Imagine...
If a Captain ob a ship can perform a marriage, I am Sure a Sheriff can do a baptism....why Not?
We were taught in nursing school how to baptize a baby. I went to a Catholic nursing school.
A Catholic nurse I was speaking to on a bus told me that emergency baptisms were part of her training. She said if they could lick their thumbs and stick it on the baby's forehead, then get the words out as fast as humanly possible before the child's heart stopped, then it counted.
How incredibly compassionate and loving. Thank you for telling me.
It is my understanding that the baptizer doesn't even have to be Christian for it to be a valid baptism.
Oh no. Three babies with the same malformations… I am guessing this was the era of that morning sickness medication thalidomide (?I think it was called?) that caused horrific birth defects that were often incompatible with life 💔
Oh and it was a midwife who first raised the alarm on the crisis of the thalidomide babies in Australia. The credit went to a male obstetrician though, naturally.
Yes, this is about thalidomide babies
@virginiaordaya of course. It's ever been thus. Women's voices silenced by jealous entitled men
The weirdest thing about this is that they were STILL prescribing thalamide in the US in the mid 70s. 😮
@@brandyhebert4934for morning sickness? It's still a medication now, but not to be used in pregnancy.
They're is a guy that was born without normal limbs from thermaldiohide and he grew up to be a motivational speaker, he's positive happy & can do anything a person with "normal" limbs can do
He's also married & quite wealthy.
This baby was born basically without its lower half and could never have survived. It was horribly sad.
Nick V? I thought he said his mother didn't take thalidomide.
@@thebackrooms7511He earns his own living as a Christian minister and speaker. His name is Nick Vujicic.
@@hellybelle5Nick's is an independent malformation, not from thalidomide.
I truly believe that a lie told out of kindness will always be forgiven.
Babies are innocent and automatically accepted back into the kingdom of Heaven.
Amen! I agree 1000%
I agree with you, but some would argue babies are still born with ‘original sin.’ Ridiculous patriarchal b.s..
Yup, that’s why I despise Catholic Church. They literally stole babies from mothers and starved them and neglected them in a orhphange. They had a chamber underground to put the infants and childrens bodies. Years later they built a playground on top. I remember being horrified. It was in Ireland I believe.
In catholicism they baptize babies to absolve them of the original sin. Though the Catholic Church no longer believes this, it used to be believed unbaptized babies went to limbo. However, now most Catholics believe every infant and child who dies is entrusted to God.
@@M00N.L1GHTAnd if Jesus died for all of our sins then all should be well for innocent babies imo. They don't even know evil thoughts let alone actions.
Jenny Agutter, my style icon from the 70s and a marvelous actress!
Agreed
Have you seen her in The Wild Geese with Michael Harris? She is so young, it must have been one of her first roles.
She was in An American werewolf in London. Recognized her eyes instantly.
The idea that unbaptized babies go to hell is NOT CATHOLIC!
Yes it is lol
Historically, yeah it very much is. The only reason the church has gotten less strict about that is because the idea is deeply unpopular and they have enough PR problems as is. It's why miscarried foetuses and stillborns weren't supposed to be buried in consecrated ground. People would sometimes create a loophole around that by burying an unbaptized infant along the edges of consecrated ground (so they were in a limbo between consecrated and unconsecrated ground) or by putting them in the same grave/coffin as a person who had been baptized
Now according to catholic laws you can bury such child in a consecrated ground but what didn't change is the fact that the child still won't go to heaven.
I find it cruel that they kind of lie to the parents, doing normal catholic funerals and everything so that parents don't feel bad but they really know that the baby won't go to heaven and they just don't speak about it as it is an unpopular thing to say.
I personally no longer believe in any of this partially because of the baby thing. If there is such an unfair god then I refuse to worship him anyway.
@kziele611 The position is that they don't know where the baby goes. But that doesn't mean they go to hell if they don't go to heaven. That's a misunderstanding and is not in alignment with God's character.
Google "catechism of the Catholic church where to unbaptized babies go when they die ". Some misinformed catholics throughout history do not represent the Catholic church nor speak for her.
The most gracious thing the Catholic hospital where I was born was mark on the birth certificate that I was a single birth. They wouldn’t let my mum see the deformed twin. They believed they were being kind.
Oh, my.
How did you learn of this when they didn't even tell your mother?
This story line was so accurate and moving.
I can guarantee you 1000%, there are no infants in hell! Jesus was never baptized until He became an adult! Only adults who have the ability to understand sin and still want to do it are culpable. This baby baptism stuff is not in the Bible, and Jesus only preached baptism to adults. What ridiculous religion would preach an innocent infant into an everlasting hell? Oh, I know! One that does not believe in the Word of God
not hell, no, but purgatory, if I remember correctly. supposedly it's not a place of suffering, but it's not a place of everlasting joy and singing cherubs either
@@Mastermint Where is purgatory in the Bible?? Infants are not sinners, and do not have the ability to understand sin. Jesus talks about children as this: Matthew 19:14 Leave these children alone, and don't try to keep them from me, because the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.. Where does Purgatory come from? From a church that charges people money for " masses" so that they can get out of Purgatory sooner? So, if you have a lot of money to pay for masses, then your loved one gets out of purgatory earlier, and if you are poor, then they spend more time there?? Where do indugences come from??? How about gifting more money to a certain religion, that guarantees a shorter sentence in this purgatory experience. Go back and investigate where this came from. I was involved in this religion, went thru their school, etc. I can tell you that when I went to a church that believes in the Bible, it changed my life completely. Jesus never spoke about any Purgatory, ever. Sounds like He said that there are children in heaven. They did not have to do anything to get there. You need to be born again of water and the Spirit, as an adult, now have you done that? Are you more impressed with a certain religion, or the Words of Jesus?
In the past, Catholics believed that unbaptized infants went to “limbo” after death, though that was never a doctrine of the Church. The official teaching is that Baptism is not a requirement to get into heaven, and that we as humans will never fully understand the depth of God’s mercy, so we have no right to say if a soul will or will not go to heaven, regardless of what has happened in their lives.
Before the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Church taught that unbaptized infants go to Limbo, a state between Heaven and Hell where they are not punished but also do not receive the Beatific Vision. However, the 1992 Catechism no longer mentions Limbo, and instead states that the Church entrusts unbaptized infants to God's mercy.
Some Lutherans, Anglicans, Episcopalians, and orthodox Christians believe that unbaptized people remain in an intermediate state until Jesus Christ returns. Some churches do not baptize infants because they believe that baptism is not mentioned in scripture, or that baptizing an infant who does not trust in Jesus is not true.
Limbo was never a doctrine - It was a theological theory that’s been left in the past - They teach the baby never left gods mercy and that they remain within his grace!
Jenny Agutter abd Judy Parfait.... Two incredible actresses... The two ladies in the final scene
I have baptized a terminally ill newborn while I was working. I told the doctor after checking the chart that I had done so and he could tell the parents if they asked.
You should not do such a thing without knowing the parent’s wishes.
What if they belonged to a different faith, and believed strongly?
What a mean god... to not let babies into heaven if they arent baptized? Original sin is such a scam.
All babies go directly back to Heavenly Father ❤
@@hellybelle5he may do now but he didn't in the 1950s.
Only Catholics and some Protestant churches believe you have to be baptized to go to heaven. You don't need to be baptized to go to heaven.
In my religion we believe all children who die go to Heaven and have no need for baptism- after all they are innocent already and saved from the Fall of Adam through Christ
Jenny agutter is a very fine actress. I love her. Shes very believeable. I first saw her in werewolf of london
The fact that she keeps calling the baby it is distressing
The baby was born without outward genitalia. They really didn’t know. Pronouns do not always matter.
@KDSima well it just makes it sound like the baby is a worthless item in not a human being
If only real nuns were this kind
They "un-alived" a baby because it was deformed & they considered it as "unfit to live".
I wonder if it was a Thalidomide baby?
I wonder what they told the parents?
@@Peridot0000you're totally right but Sister Julienne (the lady above) didn't do it. In fact Sister Julienne tried to help the baby. In fact she was horrified that they did that to the baby.
Nurses in england were some of the first people to recognize that thalidomide was causing deformities
Nurses in england were some of the first people to recognize that thalidomide was causing deformities
@@Hakainokami They knew they would cause deformities before it was even released... Because it did so in the animal testing it caused deformitiesin rabbits.. But it showed that the drug crossed the blood brain barrier of the babies.. It was one of those cases where the drug was in such demand, that they just released it anyways, I recommend to look into the story some more, there's a lot of stuff about it that's not widely known
Baby had down syndrome. Couldn't live on its own
This is really sad
Literally nowhere in the Bible does it say that you have to be baptized to go to heaven
What show is this?
It's called "Call the Midwife"
Call The Midwife
@@ch40sprince77Thank you very much 😊
Don’t baptize my baby without my permission wtf
what season is this?
Even though a card carrying Green Witch, Dad and I baptised my nephews... once a Catholic and all that.
The Catholics baptising babies confuses me; Jesus was baptised at 30. Why do they think the kid has to be baptised to go to heaven?
The Bible does not say that; I know it’s just a story but look at how much trauma they’re inflicting on themselves for no reason.
Catholics baptize babies because we believe it washes away original sin (the sin of Adam and Eve). The practice is old as the first Christians albeit implicitly. True, the Bible doesn’t explicitly call for infant baptism but it doesn’t forbid it. St. Paul writes in Col. 2:11-12 “In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ. . . . You were buried with him in baptism.” Historically, Jewish circumcision was performed on 8 day old babies. Any man who wanted to enter the Jewish faith would need to be circumcised to enter the covenant as well as all the males in his household (children included). We live in the new covenant, so physical circumcision is now done spiritually with water as the outward sign without regard to the limits of the old law ( “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”- Gal. 3:27-28.
Parents are able to bring their children for baptism in the same way that Jesus raised dead children in the Bible. He did it through the faith of their parents, not the children’s own faith.
Be careful watching non-Catholic shows with Catholicism depicted. Take what is shown with a grain of salt- they almost always depict Catholicism incorrectly or without the rational.
did they ever figure out why the babies where deformed?
Yes. And thalidomide was no longer used to treat morning sickness. And there were massive court cases to try to get compensation from the drug company.
@@dianacoles1017 ahh ty
Catholicism is crazy. Believing a baby won't make it to heaven because it wasn't baptised is obsurd. In the protestant faith, all babies and children automatically go to heaven regardless of being baptised. .
Catholics do not believe there is any one thing that will prevent someone from going to heaven except for a conscious rejection of God. The point of infant baptism is to wash away original sin (you want to do that ASAP), and we believe this is doable to a baby through the parent(s) faith. Think of the Bible stories where Jesus raises a child from the dead… He does this through the faith the parents had in Him. We do not know what happens to those who die unbaptized, but we have hope in God’s mercy and forgiveness. So we pray for them.
So sad. Whats the name of this movie??
Tv series call the midwife it has many seasons
@tigurehime1811 ok, thank you:)
Thank goodness beinging water baptized. ❤ At any age is not the qualification for going and getting to stay in heaven. The qualifications to realize you are in a world of sin. And that Jesus and his virgin birth and death and Resurrection is faith that Jesus did this for God's creation, we can't do anything for ourselves to save ourselves. Get into the New testament I prefer the King James version did the original translation and on top of all that multiple people died just so that we could get this translation God's. Then when you accepted Jesus and what he did for you you should feel different revived alive you may cry you might not cry. But in your heart of hearts something had changed. Then that is when water baptism sought-after and is next. Now you are filled with the Holy spirit and your name is in the Lamb's book of life. I DO HOPE TO SEE YOU AND OUR FATHER'S KINGDOM NOT MADE HANDS!
I can't understand how anyone would think their loving God would turn away a baby because it wasn't baptized. Blows my mind, doesn't sound very loving.
I take it when you lost your child you were not concerned about that.
@KDSima what?
@@P.O.T.S.andPan You spoke about how you cannot understand how anyone would think God would expect a baby to be baptized. It sounded like you spoke from experience. I know when my daughter died I wanted her to be baptized bc I thought it would make a difference. It was a feeling I had, that I needed her to be. Did you not have that when you lost your child?
Sometimes if you have not lost a child, you do not know how it might feel. Did i misunderstand your life experience?
@@KDSima no, I didn't worry about it because she was as innocent as anything could be. Any God who would turn away an innocent baby because they aren't baptized is not a God I'd want to worship. Bit personal of a question to be asking a stranger on the internet though 💁🏻♀️
But it wasn't blaming parents for wanting their baby to be baptized after passing, or if it's terminally ill, people need to do what helps them through stuff. That's not what's happening in this clip. She's a nun, she feels guilty because she didn't baptize the baby before it died. In her beliefs, that baby can't enter heaven.... *That* is what I mean. I feel bad for people like that, she shouldn't hold onto guilt, because if God is forgiving and loving as everyone says, he wouldn't turn away a baby just because it wasn't baptized. It has literally no control over that and has committed no sin.
@@P.O.T.S.andPan Of course by God doesn’t need a baby to be baptized. Baptism is for the people here.👍🏻
"It" is a baby
It was so badly deformed that Sister Julienne couldn’t determine its sex.
@silas8772 it's not about gender. it's a human. Say the word baby or soul. So worried for a soul not baptized yet or dying alone but they use the word "it"
Again with the "it"
Thamilimide babies?
Thalidomide--a drug used to help with morning sickness in the '50s. Sadly, it caused all sorts of malformations. I have a cousin with only one arm and one leg due to this drug. I went to grade school with a boy with one arm due to it. It took years to get it figured out and taken off the market.
Yes. Call the Midwife, they had episodes on it
They, not 'it'.
💔😪
This is what we have to look forward to. Pre Row v Wade era.😢
This has nothing to do with that.
@@rebekahjimenez2808 it does though. Deformities that render a fetus not incompatible with life would be picked up on ultrasound. The mother could choose to still carry to term, or could choose to terminate- thereby sparing a child from being born into pain, and saving the mother from a more risky procedure.
@averycheesypotato this occurred way before the ultrasound was invented.
@@rebekahjimenez2808 yes, but that doesn’t mean similar scenarios can’t play out today, now that RvW was overturned. Only difference is thalidomide won’t be the cause
@averycheesypotato Roe v. Wade was a horrible thing that caused horrible effects on women and children and made it much easier for men to get away with rape, incest, and molestation. Women who have abortions are 113% more likely to abuse surviving children, according to the CDC. Abortions made successive pregnancy more risky and increase the likelihood of all types of feminine cancers. And the list of side effects goes on. The repeal of Roe v. Wade is not a bad thing. But still, it had 0% to do with this clip.
Cant stand liars
So here, the baby was born so deformed that they couldn't even determine the sex of the baby. Thats why Sister Julienne referred to the baby as "it".
Sister Julienne asked Sister Monica Joan, "Would it be a sin to lie?" Sister Monica Joan says a lie with the intention of protecting someone can’t be a sin.
So Sister Julienne tells the mother, who desperately wanted a girl and already had 3 sons, that her daughter passed away in her arms... But she didn't have any answers for her about why.
I completely understand hating liars... But in this situation, at that time, I get it...
@AnnieSadler96 lies told with evil intentions are evil. Lies told with a genuine wish to do good, I think sometimes can be a kindness.
In that situation, I think I'd prefer the lie. I don't think there is sin in preventing suffering.
@@nicoles7550
God allowed Abraham to lie in Egypt so that he would not be murdered and his wife taken to be wed to another
Sometimes it is necessary. The helpers of Anne Frank certainly had to tell a lot of lies to the Nazis while hiding her family.
My grandmother lost a baby to a birth defect in the 60s. Possibly due to thalidomide. We won’t know and never asked. They didn’t baptize him at the hospital they sent him to (3 hours away and she want allowed to be with him). She suffered anguish over that her entire life (and some horrible words from certain types of “Christians” about her baby being in hell. You will never close Vince’s me an innocent baby, just out of the womb, is ever sent to hell or purgatory. That is something man and religion has wrong). A white lie from a priest at the hospital, or anyone-that they baptized her son before he died would have saved her so many sleepless nights and anguish. It would have been an act of mercy.
This was my reason to not get THE vaccination in 2021. Because I remembered that they considered thalidome safe for pregnant women and it mostly was, except if taken during a specific timeframe during pregnancy. And I just wasn't risking my child's health for a new vaccination. The worst is that people still thought I was paranoid and shunned me for my choice.
It is an easy rule: no vaccines a year before pregnancy.
So did you get it afterwards? Otherwise you're actually not doing it for selfish reasons lol
you are stupid and an idiot, i want you to know that
tbh i dont think thalidome was a vaccination, it was marketed as a pain medication. also medicine is massively more regulated than it used to be. you are allowed to be skeptical but not at the risk of others health, so i hope you stayed away from others so not to spread anything
You made the right choice and I an internet stranger am proud of of you I hope you and you're child are happy & healthy❤
Fairytales.
This really shows the ignorance of the past
THIS EXCELLENT SHOW,CALL THE MIDWIFE,ON WTTW 11,IS ABOUT THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN ENGLAND IN THE 1960S.WELL WRITTEN.WELL ACTED.FAVULOUS.
FABULOUS.INTERESTING.