Always great fun and very interesting to watch your videos! Yeah I also don't get it how so many cool AND historically accurate/plausable things are being missed by productions. Maybe they do not care to train or find fitting actors for stuff like double swords ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Have you seen The Fortress (Namhansanseong)? It is some decades after the Imjin War but I like the depiction of the Joseon military there. Do you maybe know if and how much the Joseon used old fashioned slings during the Imjin War (like the ones from antiquity)? I see it sometimes and it would make sense that they used them. It is such a underrepresented weapon in general. Anyway thank you for your entertaining videos! :)
Haha there's no way they couldn't just pull one of the performers from the palaces and put them in as an extra, some people like to reenact stuff in their spare time I'm sure they could just grab those guys, they'd probably do it for free. At least modern media is getting better at historical representation. I really like The Fortress, the Qing invasions are relatively recent after the Imjin War and it's a great depiction of the transition into late Joseon, very very accurate stuff there. The transition began DURING the Imjin war so there's a case to be made that a few of the Joseon troops probably fought like that during the late Imjin War, because what happened was that Ming Chinese consultants introduced their military trainers and Joseon immediately attempted to emulate the Chinese style, but obviously it took time to transition, especially during war time. What you see in The Fortress is the system having just transitioned to late Joseon military. Yeah uh actually they did. There was an annual slinging event and during national emergencies they conscripted those guys, here's a link: encykorea.aks.ac.kr/Article/E0028491#:~:text=%EC%A0%95%EC%9D%98-,%EC%9D%8C%EB%A0%A5%20%EC%A0%95%EC%9B%94%20%EB%8C%80%EB%B3%B4%EB%A6%84%EB%82%A0%20%EC%82%AC%EB%9E%8C%EB%93%A4%EC%9D%B4%20%EB%91%90%20%ED%8E%B8%EC%9C%BC%EB%A1%9C%20%EB%82%98%EB%89%98%EC%96%B4%20%EC%84%9C%EB%A1%9C,%EA%B2%A8%EB%A3%A8%EB%8D%98%20%EC%84%B1%EC%9D%B8%EB%82%A8%EC%9E%90%EB%86%80%EC%9D%B4.&text=%EC%9D%8C%EB%A0%A5%20%EC%A0%95%EC%9B%94%20%EB%8C%80%EB%B3%B4%EB%A6%84%EB%82%A0%20%EA%B0%81%20%EC%A7%80%EB%B0%A9,%E4%BE%BF%E6%88%B0)'%EC%9D%B4%EB%9D%BC%EA%B3%A0%20%EC%93%B4%EB%8B%A4.
Good solid info, yet again. Sometime in the near future I'll have to assess the Perry Bro's line up and decide how best to move forward with my 28mm Joseon army. I'm thinking I may just embrace the K-Drama look and go from there. I wonder, if Wargames Atlantic do Joseon, will they do it accurate, or will they just go with the K-Drama references? I'll go back to my ships now, once I get a day off and some rest (I've worked 9 days without a day off and still have a few more to go), I'll record the massive June painting update video. Spoilers... Panokseon's aplenty!
To be honest, I really like the K-drama look, to me it's equivalent to the Oldhammer trend where people are painting their minis to look like they're from 2nd edition, Goblin Green bases, lots of saturated colours, its got its own charm and it takes a lot of effort to convert every trooper (especially if they're metal) so that's understandable. I have a hunch that if Wargames Atlantic do Joseon, which I believe they've expressed interest in, they'll probably do a decent job because their STL range is so creative and decently researched (with some exceptions). Can't wait to see the upcoming video!
Yeah it was a combination of my own research using Google translate and talking with amateur Korean historians who helped explain many things, I learned a lot because I was interested and I still check out Joseon military history every now and again
Thankyou, I am right now as i type this glueing small round shields and large pointy shields to my REDBOX Korean Heavy infantry. (just the guys with swords) and they look pretty good. Also maybe later I will trim their tridents to spears but im not sure as i think the tridents are cute.
Glad to hear it's helping with your project! Please link me when you've painted, I love seeing Joseon minis! I was quite tempted to keep my tridents too, I liked the look. I ended up only keeping the fish scale armour for my commander because the visuals were too good, but a nice thing about miniature modelling is you can pick and choose how much you adhere to history.
@@CliosPaintingBench Yes I totally agree about choosing how far you adhere to history. My models give me so much pleasure but none of my armies are historically accurate. That said, all my projects reach historical accuracy to an extent that satisfies me. The idea of adding shields to figures is pretty big to me so i wouldnt have thought to do it until I saw your video, thanks. I watched 'kingdom' and loved it but i didnt notice any shields on the soldiers so thankyou again for your video.
@@alexc6324 People care about accuracy to various degrees; my take is, do whatever you like, they're your models. But I do hope to pass on the tools for people to make informed decisions, at least for mid Joseon Koreans. I like that the shields contrast with the Japanese, which didn't use them at this period. Shields were pretty standardised as the front rank of infantry formations and some heavy cavalry also carried them. I should have more but I can't be bothered to freehand that many haha. I could start using rattan shields too and I think I eventually will when I do another unit
@@Zwerchhau yes! There's a guy called gum_su who makes amazing stuff: x.com/gum_su_/status/1809422035883638879 unfortunately it's all in Korean, but the reference pictures are great. All English sources are outdated by about... 2 to 3 decades?
@Zwerchhau I don't speak or write Korean at all, I rely on Google Translate and the help of interested amateurs, lot of great info online and very knowledgeable people out there, I'm just a messenger
I'm not an expert on the Goryeo Dynasty, but from my understanding there was far fewer relics available so it's more speculative. Historians believe there was lamellar, chainmail and plate with mail and a form of brigandine, as the armour transitioned from Song-style to Mongol style. Dynasties are groupings of time and transitions take time, so late Goryeo was essentially the same as early Joseon for example
@@PatrioticKoreanAmerican Yes, it was brigandine, although I think that modern research currently believes that lamellar, chainmail armours were the most common by far, with plate with mail reserved for officers. Brigandine would be seen as exotic barbarian armour learned from the mongols, localised into two-piece to suit local tastes and would have been rare. It could be more common in late Goryeo. I think the comments of 'scales' in the front on the Wikipedia article are questionable. No current Korean historical dramas depict these and they don't exist for Joseon troops. It would seem very unlikely that a form of armour would develop and then disappear immediately in the next dynasty unless it was useless. The scales could have been ceremonial? The comments from the Song Dynasty Envoy could have been remarks for ceremonial armour to make a good impression for him?
Always great fun and very interesting to watch your videos! Yeah I also don't get it how so many cool AND historically accurate/plausable things are being missed by productions. Maybe they do not care to train or find fitting actors for stuff like double swords ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Have you seen The Fortress (Namhansanseong)? It is some decades after the Imjin War but I like the depiction of the Joseon military there.
Do you maybe know if and how much the Joseon used old fashioned slings during the Imjin War (like the ones from antiquity)? I see it sometimes and it would make sense that they used them. It is such a underrepresented weapon in general.
Anyway thank you for your entertaining videos! :)
Haha there's no way they couldn't just pull one of the performers from the palaces and put them in as an extra, some people like to reenact stuff in their spare time I'm sure they could just grab those guys, they'd probably do it for free. At least modern media is getting better at historical representation. I really like The Fortress, the Qing invasions are relatively recent after the Imjin War and it's a great depiction of the transition into late Joseon, very very accurate stuff there. The transition began DURING the Imjin war so there's a case to be made that a few of the Joseon troops probably fought like that during the late Imjin War, because what happened was that Ming Chinese consultants introduced their military trainers and Joseon immediately attempted to emulate the Chinese style, but obviously it took time to transition, especially during war time. What you see in The Fortress is the system having just transitioned to late Joseon military. Yeah uh actually they did. There was an annual slinging event and during national emergencies they conscripted those guys, here's a link: encykorea.aks.ac.kr/Article/E0028491#:~:text=%EC%A0%95%EC%9D%98-,%EC%9D%8C%EB%A0%A5%20%EC%A0%95%EC%9B%94%20%EB%8C%80%EB%B3%B4%EB%A6%84%EB%82%A0%20%EC%82%AC%EB%9E%8C%EB%93%A4%EC%9D%B4%20%EB%91%90%20%ED%8E%B8%EC%9C%BC%EB%A1%9C%20%EB%82%98%EB%89%98%EC%96%B4%20%EC%84%9C%EB%A1%9C,%EA%B2%A8%EB%A3%A8%EB%8D%98%20%EC%84%B1%EC%9D%B8%EB%82%A8%EC%9E%90%EB%86%80%EC%9D%B4.&text=%EC%9D%8C%EB%A0%A5%20%EC%A0%95%EC%9B%94%20%EB%8C%80%EB%B3%B4%EB%A6%84%EB%82%A0%20%EA%B0%81%20%EC%A7%80%EB%B0%A9,%E4%BE%BF%E6%88%B0)'%EC%9D%B4%EB%9D%BC%EA%B3%A0%20%EC%93%B4%EB%8B%A4.
Good solid info, yet again. Sometime in the near future I'll have to assess the Perry Bro's line up and decide how best to move forward with my 28mm Joseon army. I'm thinking I may just embrace the K-Drama look and go from there.
I wonder, if Wargames Atlantic do Joseon, will they do it accurate, or will they just go with the K-Drama references?
I'll go back to my ships now, once I get a day off and some rest (I've worked 9 days without a day off and still have a few more to go), I'll record the massive June painting update video. Spoilers... Panokseon's aplenty!
To be honest, I really like the K-drama look, to me it's equivalent to the Oldhammer trend where people are painting their minis to look like they're from 2nd edition, Goblin Green bases, lots of saturated colours, its got its own charm and it takes a lot of effort to convert every trooper (especially if they're metal) so that's understandable. I have a hunch that if Wargames Atlantic do Joseon, which I believe they've expressed interest in, they'll probably do a decent job because their STL range is so creative and decently researched (with some exceptions). Can't wait to see the upcoming video!
Dang! How did you know this information? Even lots of Koreans don't know this information!
Yeah it was a combination of my own research using Google translate and talking with amateur Korean historians who helped explain many things, I learned a lot because I was interested and I still check out Joseon military history every now and again
Thankyou, I am right now as i type this glueing small round shields and large pointy shields to my REDBOX Korean Heavy infantry. (just the guys with swords) and they look pretty good.
Also maybe later I will trim their tridents to spears but im not sure as i think the tridents are cute.
Glad to hear it's helping with your project! Please link me when you've painted, I love seeing Joseon minis! I was quite tempted to keep my tridents too, I liked the look. I ended up only keeping the fish scale armour for my commander because the visuals were too good, but a nice thing about miniature modelling is you can pick and choose how much you adhere to history.
@@CliosPaintingBench Yes I totally agree about choosing how far you adhere to history. My models give me so much pleasure but none of my armies are historically accurate. That said, all my projects reach historical accuracy to an extent that satisfies me. The idea of adding shields to figures is pretty big to me so i wouldnt have thought to do it until I saw your video, thanks. I watched 'kingdom' and loved it but i didnt notice any shields on the soldiers so thankyou again for your video.
@@alexc6324 People care about accuracy to various degrees; my take is, do whatever you like, they're your models. But I do hope to pass on the tools for people to make informed decisions, at least for mid Joseon Koreans. I like that the shields contrast with the Japanese, which didn't use them at this period. Shields were pretty standardised as the front rank of infantry formations and some heavy cavalry also carried them. I should have more but I can't be bothered to freehand that many haha. I could start using rattan shields too and I think I eventually will when I do another unit
@@CliosPaintingBench your knowledge, enthusiasm, sense of humour and skill are all appreciated.
@@alexc6324 Haha, gratitude goes both ways, I appreciate you watching mate, without your comments this video would look like a wasteland!
Do you have any good book recommendations on Korean arms and armour? There's unlimited amounts of stuff on Japan, but very little on Korea
@@Zwerchhau yes! There's a guy called gum_su who makes amazing stuff: x.com/gum_su_/status/1809422035883638879 unfortunately it's all in Korean, but the reference pictures are great. All English sources are outdated by about... 2 to 3 decades?
@@CliosPaintingBench My Korean is at about infant level, but could be something to work toward being able to understand
@Zwerchhau I don't speak or write Korean at all, I rely on Google Translate and the help of interested amateurs, lot of great info online and very knowledgeable people out there, I'm just a messenger
What type of armor does the Goryeo military wear?
I'm not an expert on the Goryeo Dynasty, but from my understanding there was far fewer relics available so it's more speculative. Historians believe there was lamellar, chainmail and plate with mail and a form of brigandine, as the armour transitioned from Song-style to Mongol style. Dynasties are groupings of time and transitions take time, so late Goryeo was essentially the same as early Joseon for example
@@CliosPaintingBench What do you call the Durumagi-style armor that the soldiers and marines wore? Is it still brigandine armor?
@@PatrioticKoreanAmerican Yes, it was brigandine, although I think that modern research currently believes that lamellar, chainmail armours were the most common by far, with plate with mail reserved for officers. Brigandine would be seen as exotic barbarian armour learned from the mongols, localised into two-piece to suit local tastes and would have been rare. It could be more common in late Goryeo. I think the comments of 'scales' in the front on the Wikipedia article are questionable. No current Korean historical dramas depict these and they don't exist for Joseon troops. It would seem very unlikely that a form of armour would develop and then disappear immediately in the next dynasty unless it was useless. The scales could have been ceremonial? The comments from the Song Dynasty Envoy could have been remarks for ceremonial armour to make a good impression for him?