Honestly I'm glad vexing exists. Yes it sucks to play into it if you have a strategy that revolves around utilizing a bunch of free cast cards to keep control of the game and win. But ya know what? Vexing is just doing to you exactly what you have been doing to others for years. If anything it is good when a card like Vexing comes along and forces players to find answers to something like it. Cause if a single card can shut down your whole strat by itself and you built ZERO contingencies for that card then honestly? You didn't build a good deck strat.
I'm conflicted. In a way, I understand the necessity for checks and balances. In another, if players cannot adapt to the meta changing, even in eternal formats, then that feels like more of an indictment on the player base, than the cards. Why does one spell type have to be the equivalent of the kid with his finger in the dam, holding back everything else? Create a card equivalent to Force that has the same alternative cast requirement, but make it reduce the cost to 1 instead of zero? My point is, one or two cards should not be the binder for an entire set of formats.
I agree, I feel like if you're relying on a single hero to keep the format working, it's inevitable that it's kryptonite will come along eventually... I don't play those formats, so I'm not qualified to talk on it too deeply, but Vexing Bauble is fine everywhere else and I think it's a needed option. Crazy to think that what is effectively a Thalia by all accounts just crumpled Magic's oldest formats lol...
@@jyomi7506legacy is so powerful that not having free interaction makes the format sooo much worse. Without forces, oops all spells, TES, and some more all in builds of reanimator would become the only viable decks because they are the fastest (and in some cases most fragile) decks that one can be playing. The existence of force of will and similar effects prevent all in decks from dominating the meta so decks like moon stompy and eldrazi which aren’t able to run FoW can still see play because they pray on the blue decks that prey on the combo decks.
@@tonymontana9221 Unfortunately that’s not how vexing bauble is being played right now. It’s being played in combo decks to protect them from interaction…
@@danielkings2443 So its being used to do exactly what it was designed to do. Like...the card works on both players so it is also making the player playing it have to build their deck with this in mind? I really do not see the problem and while I understand force of will is a 'format defining' card there is another term for this 'format warping' and that is not good. Just cause something has been this way for a long time does not mean it should STAY this way.
Weird: I would think that the people that would be able to interact with a simple artifact would be the people that famously pack free interaction like 4x Force of Will on their decks.
I know right. I think its just that people are use to only playing a specific deck and playing against those specific deck. So when something new comes in they have to change or adapt their decks to it. And we know how people are about changing things. Also a .20cent card shutting down 10k+ cards gets people salty. "I want to play with my Black Lotuis" ugh.
If you started the game with your entire deck in your hand, yes, you would be able to do so. However, if you Force the Bauble, you lost your Force for the combo itself.
bunch of people who have never played legacy in their life talking about how players should just adapt dont seem to understand how big of a deal turning off all zero mana interaction is its not just fow/daze, its all zero mana interaction that currently exists and could ever potentially exist in the future if you think all fast combo all the time is fun then you haven't experienced it
This is true, I'm all for the meta adapting, but its fringe decks like Mississippi River (cascade combo) now eating 4 maindeck silverbullets which feels rough.
@@ThatMillGuyShaf I played Colorless 12 Post about a decade ago. It was a fair combo deck (blightsteel/greaves was the kill and metalworker/staff for the engine). I had defense grid in the side because of the blue match ups because fow and daze were a pain. The question is then why is defense grid fine but vexing bauble isn't? They both literally stop the free counters and when it comes to big mana decks the difference of 1 mana on turn one on the play is insignificant.
@@stephenhousman6975 The difference of 1 mana makes all the difference when you're trying to both cast the card on turn 1 and then pull off a win. You can also interact on a 1 for 1 basis with Defense Grid. If you try to Prismatic Ending a Vexing Bauble, they're drawing a card so you're interacting on a 1 for 2 basis. Defense Grid is symmetrical. When you register Defense Grid, you voluntarily resign yourself to not playing Force of Will because they conflict. Bauble is assymetrical. If you want to interact with your opponent using free spells while you have Bauble out, you have the ability to voluntarily crack the bauble, draw a card and allow free spells again.
@@diamonddudeygo The problem with the prismatic ending example is if they still have a mana available. Decks that use vex tend to use all their mana efficiently. So there isn't usually a time to crack it in the first couple of turns. Both are symmetrical though. As soon as you crack Vex your opponent's free spells are also active against. The point of Vex and Grid are to protect your spells. What deck in current legacy can t1 win with playing bauble and still able to combo off? If that were the case I would rather run Pact at that point because 1 difference in mana for a t1 win is much more significant than t2-t3 where with a sol land could play grid or vex.
Totally fine card. The problem is free spells. They defeat the entire purpose of mana which the point of the game, use your mana the best way possible to beat your opponent.
@TiredOfHumans modern is not in a good spot. Very stale format. Energy runs 30% of the format. If they ban ring next month the format gets worse. You kill alot of decks. Wotc created the problem.
Just an example of a card made for modern having unintended consequences in other formats. There's nothing wrong with vexing bauble in modern. Psychic frog also seems to be fine in modern. Looking at the mtggoldfish data, it's the 16th most played creature and the 47th most played card overall.
1 mana counterspells cost 1 mana (revolutionary concept, I know) which is really hard to pay for when your opponent kills you before you play your first land.
Just gonna say this as a) a Bosh viewer and b) someone who went to college with him during a time in which he and all the rest of us were grinding Legacy: the dude knows what he's talking about like, 90% of the time (I disagree with his approach to countering Nic Fit as an archetype - but then again, it's what *I* played, so grain of salt there). I have 99-percentile confidence that one of the two he says needs banned is Psychic Frog, the second one being either VB or Kozi Comm. EDIT: oh, he expanded on that on the hellsite. Didn't realize, I've long since left Twitter. Kozilek's Command is busted because it blanks the biggest weakness of the sol-land archetype - Do Big Splash Powerful Things, but if you whiff, there's no reload. Kozi Comm gives them the kind of selection that BLUE decks typically reach for. Yeah, it means the sol decks can do everything with NO downsides. It probably needs to go.
"It is your fault as a player for not having removal available before your opponent drops a bauble and kills you before you had the chance to drop a single land" sure is a take.
ThrabenU did a good analysis of it. I can see a case for getting rid of Vexing Bauble, but I think Control Decks need to accept right now their Dazes/FoWs aren't going to cut it to deal with combo now. Nadu, The One Ring, Psychic Frog need to go. Vexing, I don't think it does, but we'll see.
The bekcher card is called recross the paths. It allaws you to reveal cards until a land is revealed and put those cards back on the bottom of the library, since belcher decks dont play lands, this allows you to rearrange the deck in a way that allows you to win the next turn
I mean, even with Bauble in the meta, Force of Will is the second most played card, while Bauble is only number 9. And the number 2 best deck doesn't even run bauble. really doesn't seem like bauble is the problem card here, people are just upset about change.
I would say this Frog feels like it's getting into Senseis top territory, and I'll explain why. Top got banned mostly because of too many game actions that DO NOT ADVANCE the game state, it was leading to far too many decisions and longer games unnecessarily. Frog has that too with the active discard ability and the exile ability forcing players to keep track of their graveyards. The grief reanimator problem is a fast set of game actions that leads to a VERY TILTED game state players do not enjoy. TLDR If you're a frog player learn your timings and know if you care about exiled carda and save everyone the headache of watching you trying to decide.
Vexing Bauble is a problem in vintage, though it's been restricted so what can you do. I feel like I gotta scream "skill issue" in legacy. You can say "Oh the format is built around force of will and daze" but if you can't handle an artifact stopping two of your cards, you are too reliant on force of will and daze. Screaming about counterplay to the most busted counterspells feels whiny. If Force of Will falls from 60% to 35% like big whoop. We have Boseiju now. Like be willing to play more removal than the blue suite.
I'm on the fence when it comes to the card, I like what your saying in regards to adapting rather than complaining. its worth pointing out it does shut off a lot more than FoW and daze, however. Cascade, all the pitch elementals, LED and petal all take a hit. For one colourless mana it does SO MUCH DAMAGE.
Removal doesn't beat the "oops I win on turn 1" combo decks. If Force of Will isn't around to police those decks, the format becomes turn 1 kills. People aren't "too reliant on Force of Will and Daze", the entire format depends on the existence of FoW, Daze and Wasteland to be even remotely playable and interesting. Boseiju costs 2 mana. You will never get to play a second land in Legacy if FoW and Daze aren't around.
I like vexing bauble, but if only it couldnt be gotten off of Urza's Saga... Urzas saga is just such a cracked card and letting it be played for free in the artifact decks like painters is so wild.
Answering free spells is not a problem, free spells are the problem. If the format is so broken that free spells hold the broken in check, then bite the bullet and ban the broken stuff.
Everytime xerox shells get confronted with cards that combat the fow/daze/wasteland trifecta they scream because they cant just slam free spells backed by delve threats
Used to have a Katsumasa, the Animator commander deck. It was all about animating cheap artifacts that either had a good static ability or an ETB or LTB. Turns out vexing bauble was just good in that situation. The amount of decks/cards I just accidentally shit down was crazy
Restricting Vex in vintage makes some sense because that was a reason Chalice was restricted. Vex in legacy is still fine though because F blue counterspells. To be fair defense grid is also in the format and was the go to to stop FoW and Daze. The real question is why grid is fine and Vex isn't when they effectively do the same thing and that the 1 mana difference isn't really noticeable in the decks that run the sol lands. I find Painter as a fair combo deck. It can play a midrange game depending their starting hand. They do not need to goldfish or getting specific cards in order to win.
Because Defense Grid is symmetrical and Vexing Bauble is asymmetrical. You get to crack the bauble when you want to use free spells, Defense Grid just says "No one is allowed to interact". Vexing bauble says "You aren't allowed to interact but if I want to interact I only need to spend 1 mana and I get a card out of that deal"
@@diamonddudeygo How is Bauble asymmetrical? Once you crack it both sides can start using free spells again. The card draw for cracking it is pretty much any bauble effect that DRC decks use. And if it isn't good in a match up it is effectively a 2 mana mishra's bauble.
@@legendarydragoon1462 What is the actual problem if you are also running free spells? Stompy decks can easily cast a fury and the Beseech decks run veil of summer. If they are cracking the bauble it usually means that they are desperate to get something before they die. I see no problem with this if the opponent is stuck with free counters in hand in this scenario.
Yeah, it is! Yu-Gi-Oh is based on free interaction to stop your opponent's combo deck in their tracks and force them to play midrange, which is exactly how Vintage plays nowadays. Vintage is by far the healthiest format in Magic right now BECAUSE of those games, and Yu-Gi-Oh is no different.
I have no opinion on vexing bauble but legacy players are so salty about dimir. 😂 they been crying about different versions of dimir since deaths shadow. They are fine with turn 2 combos and free spells. But in little hand hate and a froggy boy make them lose their shit.
Unpopular opinion. Personally, I like the bubble. Yes, it disables the ability to interact with an opponent, but there are also advantages. The format has become more positive towards decks without blue color. 25% of the current meta is a dimir control/reanimator or doomsday combo. To be honest, I like that blue mages finally need to think about what to do, and not just cast force of will or daze while they also have so much cantrips and ways to draw cards. But I'm not saying that we need to leave everything as it is. Personally, I would just restrict the use of this card to 1 in the deck.
I play magic online for most of my games. On magic online in general cards are cheaper. So people tend to play tier 1 cards cause it's affordable. Which is fine and should be enjoyed. But I even have less money so I got do something to compete. So I play cards that slow my opponents. It's not that crazy
Do you want to make the game more fair? STAX THE COMBO: Green) "Each activated ability of permanents your opponents control costs 1 more for each time they activated an ability this turn." White) "Whenever a triggered ability of a permanent your opponent control trigger, if it's not the first triggered ability controlled by that player to trigger this turn, counter it unless that player pays 1 for each time a triggered ability they control has triggered this turn." Blue ) If a nonland permanent would enter the battlefield under the control of an opponent, if it's not the first nonland permanent entered onto the battlefield under that opponent's control, phase it out. Red) "Whenever an opponent casts a spell, if it's not the first spell they have cast this turn, > deals damage to that player equal to the number of other spells that player has already cast this turn." Black) Whenever a nonland permanent enters the battlefield n under the control of an opponent, if it's not the first nonland permanent entered onto the battlefield under that opponent's control, ...boh, exile a permanent / exile a card from hand and a card from the top of library or graveyard .... IDK
nah, vexing bubble (and similar "if no mana was spent" effects) are hilarious and force people to start interacting more. i play commander, but some of my best combos involving casting things for free regularly get stopped or punish me because of cards like these, and so I have removal and counters ready for them (and I can also use them for other problems!) rock it.
Vexing Bauble is egregious because you can turn it off any time you want and you get a card out of the deal. Also you're completely wrong: Vexing Bauble doesn't force people to start interacting, it forces people to mulligan to 2 force 2 blue card hands in order to be able to drop a single land before they're dead.
@@diamonddudeygo how does vexing bubble stop you from dropping a land? it's solely to stop 0-mana spells (storm/cascade/etc. and they have to spend 1 and sacrifice this hate to get an extra card) I'm lost about this.
@@ArenaRat-xd8fu i say free, but i run a jeskai energy deck, so it costs me energy to do it. but it doesn't count as mana so it gets countered or I take damage etc. funny interaction.
Isn't it the other way around, Vexing Bauble keeps blue in check? 74% playing Force of Will!! You say: "Force of Will and Daze keep the formats broken cards in check" But that is also saying that they force you to play blue to have access to those cards. Blue is broken in all formats even where Force and Daze are not legal. It is about time to, give room to other colors. Either keep Vexing Bauble and unban it in Modern or reduce the efficiency of counter spells.
Blue isn't broken anywhere (except Vintage). Blue is the color that keeps the game interesting. 74% are playing Force of Will not because the card is too good, 74% are playing Force of Will because it's the card that gives fair decks a fighting chance against fast combo decks. "Reducing the efficiency of combo decks" just kills Legacy and turns it into a fast combo fest where no player is ever caught interacting with their opponent.
Honestly? If 2 cards that are busted as hell (Lets not pretend they aren't here, free "no" is insane even now) are the only things holding up an entire format then your format is faulty on premise. Not to mention that they are purely blue cards, making sure that one color is the key color of a format. Like I love the IDEA of Legacy but if it boils down to dropping 400+ dollars on a playset of Force or get comboed out then I would rather not play it. At least Vexing Bauble is a way to force players to adapt into a different metagame.
I play a lot of legacy bauble is a problem only because without fow and daze the format becomes turn 1 wins consistently. Frog however is a skill issue. I play lands and painter so i dont play it but have never had a problem dealing with it. Its stong but not ban worthy.
"It's strong but not ban worthy" Meanwhile the current UB supremacy meta is completely being carried by the frog. My guy I have to doubt your "I play a lot of legacy" claim for just because of that.
I do not play modern i havent since rtr I see this card it says no bs I like it this is the mosf oblique check and balance ive ever seen it is now getting added to one of my eternal format decks
Personally for me I would rather see a healthy format and lose money on cards being banned, than to see an unhealthy format where my cards hold value. I will take the hit on the money side, I don't care about losing the money and I am not a rich man.
So they want to play counter, but don't want someone else to counter their counter. That's immature behavior. We all grow old, but not all of us grow up.
The "free" counterspell (paying a card in hand is a bigger cost than any mana requirement!) is the only thing keeping Legacy playable. Combo decks are interesting and cool to have in any given format, but a metagame where the best decks are all capable of ending the game on turns 1 or 2 is not a fun metagame.
What's with this "we" crap? Sure, some cards are problematic, but if new powerful cards are what we're gonna get instead of reprints of expensive staples, then that's fine by me.
It converts card advantage into an evasive threat, while generating card advantage. 20 years ago Psychatog was the best creature in magic, this is the powercrept updated version of it.
@@85inexact i can 100% see how that makes it a very powerful card, it's obviously a threat that needs to be dealt with. I guess i just don't play enough 60 card to understand what makes it SO good that everyone wants it banned
@@icedragon9097 Issue is that the decks that benefit from a really strong two drop were already really strong decks. The frog gives them a cheap, all in one creature tool which is just pushed the meta to the point where best decks are UB shells playing frog, eldrazi and painter playing 8 copies of anti blue blasts (and it's just matter of time until painter lists start playing the frog too).
If Vintage and Legacy can't handle the idea that you have to spend mana to cast spells, then it deserves to die. Next they need to create another bauble that stops players from cheating cards into play. Learn to brew with a mana curve.
@ArenaRat-xd8fu and at 60% of registered decks make it a problem. The "git gud" argument doesn't apply when it's an ubiquitous card in that many decks and the card draw it provides, the protection, and minor and delayed draw back and the fact that it will inevitably get you a second copy to reset the counters. You clearly don't play modern, or are an investor in the one ring, both of which shouldn't be discussing bans in modern.
I think for vexing bauble to continue to exist, you almost have to bring back Mental Misstep. I'm pretty sure no one wants that, so it'd be safer for bauble to go. Nadu probably should go because I think the format is going pretty heavy into Breakfast combos and though there are 3 distinct versions of Nadu in legacy... That makes it pretty hard to truly understand which version you're playing against, being either the breakfast combo, nadu midrange, or the chord variant. The most hilarious thing about Nadu in its current state is that it is currently one of the lowest cost entry points to legacy. You may think you need dual lands, but actually these numbers are going down, people aren't playing full sets anymore. Wasteland, Blood Moon, search blockers actually hard punishing manabases. There are arguments for heavier basic land counts. I do want to point out that even though these are turn 2 kills a la speed of YuGiOh, at least it isn't drawn out. YGO kills still need like 20-30minutes of actions before resolving the turn 2 kills... Also, I just wanted to say kudos. Calling Modern the new Block Constructed is so on point. I couldn't agree more!
Winning in YGO does not take 20-30 minutes of actions. If your opponent takes more than 5 minutes on a single turn you probably should have called a judge 3 minutes ago.
Vexing Bauble stops fair decks from interacting with the bullshit. You'll notice it's not fair decks playing Vexing Bauble, it's the insane balls to the wall turn 1 combo decks.
@ vexing Bill is such a good side piece to add as a two of or four of. In commander it’s debatable. However, in 60 card formats, it slows down the play considerably. When someone can cast for free spells a turn or just slam omissions down turn 2 and dump their hand on the board. I think bobbles is a good way to put that nonsense. All they have to do is run more artifact removal. It’s not a big deal most do.
I love how the banned some of my favorite decks just to print MH3 a few years later and ruin the format even more. The meta for the past 5 years or so has pushed me over to Flesh and Blood. The community is so much better. MTG is way better for coverage though.
I run it in my Inferno of the Star Mounts, and I lent it out to another player and they dropped the bauble. I was playing Stella Lee and it turned the game into an awesome puzzle for me
You have it completely wrong: Fair blue deck players are mad the only tools at their disposal to interact with the unfair combo decks that kill you on turn 1 aren't enough anymore because Bauble exists. You need to have a Force and a blue card for the Bauble, then a Force and a blue card for whatever the combo is. That's not feasible or realistic.
Who told y'all that you were supposed to be able to play spells for free and cheat things out all the time? Some people need to be forced to play fair Magic.
@Cybertech134 the point ThrabenU makes in his analysis (which I kind of agree on) is that the Blue decks are in the fair decks category. Something needs to slow Legacy down a bit since the number of decks with Turn 1/2/3 win potential is on the rise. A Vexing Bauble ban might do this by not allowing 1 FoW check to determine the game. I am not convinced it needs to happen yet, but I do have my Chalice of the Voids and Trinispheres back on standby, just in case.
I think it's hilarious that this card is obviously ridiculous for all the typical reasons: one mana, can sac itself so only affects opponent... at this point if you still give WotC your money you have nobody but yourselves to blame. I knew this card would be hated IMMEDIATELY after reading it, but somehow the people whose job this is did not?
So a card that says play fair magic makes people cry. Good, let your hate flow, the tears give me power. Sounds like formats need to evolve. Business as usual is never good.
Play out all your 0s into vexing is the playpatern into busted combos it doesn't facilitate fair magic. It's a card which shuts of a lot of interaction for the most part
@@peggle09 that's definitely a valid argument. Eternal formats are a lot more about mulligans and winning die roles. Since games can be much faster. Just didn't agree with the forcing to play fair part, cause that's not how the card is used.
It doesn't say "play fair magic". It says "your opponent isn't allowed to interact with your bullshit as you masturbate all over the board and kill them". Very different concepts.
The fact that it counters all spells regardless of mana value, as long as they were cast for free, is a design mistake. Vexing bauble wasn't designed to counter ornithopter, or tormod's crypt, or even moxes and LED's. It was designed to counter force of will. It's too late to take it back, but I believe this design decision was not intended and led to the card being way stronger than it should've been.
@@LiteDrift That's exactly the opposite of what it does in practice: It just allows you to vomit your hand while your opponent isn't allowed to interact. If your opponent ever makes the grave mistake of tapping their lands to cast a spell, you just get to win.
Honestly I'm glad vexing exists. Yes it sucks to play into it if you have a strategy that revolves around utilizing a bunch of free cast cards to keep control of the game and win. But ya know what? Vexing is just doing to you exactly what you have been doing to others for years. If anything it is good when a card like Vexing comes along and forces players to find answers to something like it. Cause if a single card can shut down your whole strat by itself and you built ZERO contingencies for that card then honestly? You didn't build a good deck strat.
It's mostly cause it shuts down interaction not for stopping the combos. Combo players and stompy players just use it to protect their lock pieces.
@@akorthouwer play more artifact destruction.
@@scruffyryan Exactly. Not like there are no cards you can play to "interact" with this card and destroy/exile in ALL of magics history.
I'm conflicted. In a way, I understand the necessity for checks and balances. In another, if players cannot adapt to the meta changing, even in eternal formats, then that feels like more of an indictment on the player base, than the cards. Why does one spell type have to be the equivalent of the kid with his finger in the dam, holding back everything else? Create a card equivalent to Force that has the same alternative cast requirement, but make it reduce the cost to 1 instead of zero? My point is, one or two cards should not be the binder for an entire set of formats.
I agree, I feel like if you're relying on a single hero to keep the format working, it's inevitable that it's kryptonite will come along eventually... I don't play those formats, so I'm not qualified to talk on it too deeply, but Vexing Bauble is fine everywhere else and I think it's a needed option. Crazy to think that what is effectively a Thalia by all accounts just crumpled Magic's oldest formats lol...
@@jyomi7506 not true in the sense that you can't pay extra mana to not have your free spell countered.
@@jyomi7506legacy is so powerful that not having free interaction makes the format sooo much worse. Without forces, oops all spells, TES, and some more all in builds of reanimator would become the only viable decks because they are the fastest (and in some cases most fragile) decks that one can be playing. The existence of force of will and similar effects prevent all in decks from dominating the meta so decks like moon stompy and eldrazi which aren’t able to run FoW can still see play because they pray on the blue decks that prey on the combo decks.
As a fan of fair magic, vexing bauble is a great card.
@@tonymontana9221 Unfortunately that’s not how vexing bauble is being played right now. It’s being played in combo decks to protect them from interaction…
@@danielkings2443 from *free interaction, yes
So combo is getting protection from free spells, huh? Seems like a magic card of all time to me
@@tamo3329 very likely vexing bauble and psychic frog get banned in December
@@danielkings2443 So its being used to do exactly what it was designed to do. Like...the card works on both players so it is also making the player playing it have to build their deck with this in mind? I really do not see the problem and while I understand force of will is a 'format defining' card there is another term for this 'format warping' and that is not good. Just cause something has been this way for a long time does not mean it should STAY this way.
If you break it down, 7 of the top 8 decks for EW NA are MH3 fueled, only painters plan wasn't
Sad
Oh no, my free spells are not free.
I’ve been wondering, how would Modern play right now if you removed the five straight-to-modern sets? Why isn’t that played anywhere?
It's is! I think d00mwake was championing a format called Pure Modern that removed these sets;
What’s the fifth straight to modern set? Cause I know Mh1, mh2 and mh3 and lord of the rings but I can’t think of what the fifth one would be
Last one is assassin's creed.
@@wEakling1918 ACR
@@TheCubicalGuyI cared about that set so little I always forget it exists lol
Weird: I would think that the people that would be able to interact with a simple artifact would be the people that famously pack free interaction like 4x Force of Will on their decks.
I know right. I think its just that people are use to only playing a specific deck and playing against those specific deck. So when something new comes in they have to change or adapt their decks to it. And we know how people are about changing things. Also a .20cent card shutting down 10k+ cards gets people salty. "I want to play with my Black Lotuis" ugh.
If you started the game with your entire deck in your hand, yes, you would be able to do so.
However, if you Force the Bauble, you lost your Force for the combo itself.
It's almost as if the idea of running more interaction is one that doesn't work the way people think it does. Crazy.
bunch of people who have never played legacy in their life talking about how players should just adapt
dont seem to understand how big of a deal turning off all zero mana interaction is
its not just fow/daze, its all zero mana interaction that currently exists and could ever potentially exist in the future
if you think all fast combo all the time is fun then you haven't experienced it
Yea some of the comments seem a little out of touch but I could've done a better job of highlighting the issue honeatly
This is true, I'm all for the meta adapting, but its fringe decks like Mississippi River (cascade combo) now eating 4 maindeck silverbullets which feels rough.
@@ThatMillGuyShaf I played Colorless 12 Post about a decade ago. It was a fair combo deck (blightsteel/greaves was the kill and metalworker/staff for the engine). I had defense grid in the side because of the blue match ups because fow and daze were a pain.
The question is then why is defense grid fine but vexing bauble isn't? They both literally stop the free counters and when it comes to big mana decks the difference of 1 mana on turn one on the play is insignificant.
@@stephenhousman6975 The difference of 1 mana makes all the difference when you're trying to both cast the card on turn 1 and then pull off a win.
You can also interact on a 1 for 1 basis with Defense Grid. If you try to Prismatic Ending a Vexing Bauble, they're drawing a card so you're interacting on a 1 for 2 basis.
Defense Grid is symmetrical. When you register Defense Grid, you voluntarily resign yourself to not playing Force of Will because they conflict. Bauble is assymetrical. If you want to interact with your opponent using free spells while you have Bauble out, you have the ability to voluntarily crack the bauble, draw a card and allow free spells again.
@@diamonddudeygo The problem with the prismatic ending example is if they still have a mana available. Decks that use vex tend to use all their mana efficiently. So there isn't usually a time to crack it in the first couple of turns.
Both are symmetrical though. As soon as you crack Vex your opponent's free spells are also active against. The point of Vex and Grid are to protect your spells.
What deck in current legacy can t1 win with playing bauble and still able to combo off? If that were the case I would rather run Pact at that point because 1 difference in mana for a t1 win is much more significant than t2-t3 where with a sol land could play grid or vex.
Totally fine card. The problem is free spells. They defeat the entire purpose of mana which the point of the game, use your mana the best way possible to beat your opponent.
In Modern? Sure. In the most broken formats like Legacy and Vintage? Hell naw
@@jirkau555 Then it is the issue of Legacy and Vintage rather than the cards mentioned in the video.
Problem is that for better or worse, free spells are what those formats are built around
@@williamdrum9899 they shouldnt be
@@williamdrum9899Then it is the problem of the format instead of a single card.
Stop asking for bans…
Why do you think modern or legacy are good healthy formats right now?
this constant whining... He has to stop
@TiredOfHumans modern is not in a good spot. Very stale format. Energy runs 30% of the format. If they ban ring next month the format gets worse. You kill alot of decks. Wotc created the problem.
MFW the MTG UA-camr does his job on reporting on how the community feels about a card
@@blasticpox rigghht??? These comments go crazy and have no comprehension LOL
Just an example of a card made for modern having unintended consequences in other formats. There's nothing wrong with vexing bauble in modern.
Psychic frog also seems to be fine in modern. Looking at the mtggoldfish data, it's the 16th most played creature and the 47th most played card overall.
How about you just run 1 mana counter spells. They are in the format.
1 mana counterspells cost 1 mana (revolutionary concept, I know) which is really hard to pay for when your opponent kills you before you play your first land.
Just gonna say this as a) a Bosh viewer and b) someone who went to college with him during a time in which he and all the rest of us were grinding Legacy: the dude knows what he's talking about like, 90% of the time (I disagree with his approach to countering Nic Fit as an archetype - but then again, it's what *I* played, so grain of salt there). I have 99-percentile confidence that one of the two he says needs banned is Psychic Frog, the second one being either VB or Kozi Comm.
EDIT: oh, he expanded on that on the hellsite. Didn't realize, I've long since left Twitter. Kozilek's Command is busted because it blanks the biggest weakness of the sol-land archetype - Do Big Splash Powerful Things, but if you whiff, there's no reload. Kozi Comm gives them the kind of selection that BLUE decks typically reach for. Yeah, it means the sol decks can do everything with NO downsides. It probably needs to go.
Vexing bauble is fine. it is your fault as a player not having removal for it. "pro" players crying about it is just funny.
"It is your fault as a player for not having removal available before your opponent drops a bauble and kills you before you had the chance to drop a single land" sure is a take.
@@diamonddudeygo yup it sure is a take. it is almost like the point of the game is to win so shutting down your opponents options is a strategy
Claiming card that just nulls FoW and Daze which are iconic format cards next to brainstorm is fine is just lazy trolling.
ThrabenU did a good analysis of it. I can see a case for getting rid of Vexing Bauble, but I think Control Decks need to accept right now their Dazes/FoWs aren't going to cut it to deal with combo now.
Nadu, The One Ring, Psychic Frog need to go. Vexing, I don't think it does, but we'll see.
Long live The One Ring
The bekcher card is called recross the paths. It allaws you to reveal cards until a land is revealed and put those cards back on the bottom of the library, since belcher decks dont play lands, this allows you to rearrange the deck in a way that allows you to win the next turn
I mean, even with Bauble in the meta, Force of Will is the second most played card, while Bauble is only number 9. And the number 2 best deck doesn't even run bauble. really doesn't seem like bauble is the problem card here, people are just upset about change.
Pay for your spells 🤷
L+ratio+skill issue
Magic players are always going to be mad. The questions are, at what, and how justified is it.
I would say this
Frog feels like it's getting into Senseis top territory, and I'll explain why.
Top got banned mostly because of too many game actions that DO NOT ADVANCE the game state, it was leading to far too many decisions and longer games unnecessarily.
Frog has that too with the active discard ability and the exile ability forcing players to keep track of their graveyards.
The grief reanimator problem is a fast set of game actions that leads to a VERY TILTED game state players do not enjoy.
TLDR
If you're a frog player learn your timings and know if you care about exiled carda and save everyone the headache of watching you trying to decide.
Bauble isnt used to stop combo, it's used to enable it.
Vexing Bauble is a problem in vintage, though it's been restricted so what can you do.
I feel like I gotta scream "skill issue" in legacy. You can say "Oh the format is built around force of will and daze" but if you can't handle an artifact stopping two of your cards, you are too reliant on force of will and daze. Screaming about counterplay to the most busted counterspells feels whiny. If Force of Will falls from 60% to 35% like big whoop.
We have Boseiju now. Like be willing to play more removal than the blue suite.
I'm on the fence when it comes to the card, I like what your saying in regards to adapting rather than complaining. its worth pointing out it does shut off a lot more than FoW and daze, however. Cascade, all the pitch elementals, LED and petal all take a hit. For one colourless mana it does SO MUCH DAMAGE.
Removal doesn't beat the "oops I win on turn 1" combo decks. If Force of Will isn't around to police those decks, the format becomes turn 1 kills. People aren't "too reliant on Force of Will and Daze", the entire format depends on the existence of FoW, Daze and Wasteland to be even remotely playable and interesting.
Boseiju costs 2 mana. You will never get to play a second land in Legacy if FoW and Daze aren't around.
Without FoW, daze, wasteland, FoN, the legacy format would be so unbelievably homogenous. How would one stop oops all spells without FoW?
Not to mention Force can still be played using Veil of Summer.
I like vexing bauble, but if only it couldnt be gotten off of Urza's Saga...
Urzas saga is just such a cracked card and letting it be played for free in the artifact decks like painters is so wild.
wait players are mad they can't break casting costs as easily?
"breaking casting costs" is how Legacy games get to turn 2.
Answering free spells is not a problem, free spells are the problem. If the format is so broken that free spells hold the broken in check, then bite the bullet and ban the broken stuff.
"Don't ban 1 card, ban 5-10" is a tough sell.
I'll take "never played a game of legacy or vintage," for 100
@@85inexact If 5-10 cards are a problem, then the game has a bigger issue.
@@michaelcollins4534 Most people haven't. They're meme formats at this point.
@@Cybertech134 Or just ban the one card stopping the broken police do its job...
Everytime xerox shells get confronted with cards that combat the fow/daze/wasteland trifecta they scream because they cant just slam free spells backed by delve threats
Used to have a Katsumasa, the Animator commander deck. It was all about animating cheap artifacts that either had a good static ability or an ETB or LTB. Turns out vexing bauble was just good in that situation. The amount of decks/cards I just accidentally shit down was crazy
Card named *VEXING* Bauble is making people mad? well, at least you can't accuse it of false advertising.
Restricting Vex in vintage makes some sense because that was a reason Chalice was restricted. Vex in legacy is still fine though because F blue counterspells. To be fair defense grid is also in the format and was the go to to stop FoW and Daze. The real question is why grid is fine and Vex isn't when they effectively do the same thing and that the 1 mana difference isn't really noticeable in the decks that run the sol lands.
I find Painter as a fair combo deck. It can play a midrange game depending their starting hand. They do not need to goldfish or getting specific cards in order to win.
Because Defense Grid is symmetrical and Vexing Bauble is asymmetrical. You get to crack the bauble when you want to use free spells,
Defense Grid just says "No one is allowed to interact". Vexing bauble says "You aren't allowed to interact but if I want to interact I only need to spend 1 mana and I get a card out of that deal"
@@diamonddudeygo How is Bauble asymmetrical? Once you crack it both sides can start using free spells again. The card draw for cracking it is pretty much any bauble effect that DRC decks use.
And if it isn't good in a match up it is effectively a 2 mana mishra's bauble.
This is the problem. It needed to cost like 5 to crack so that its a real commitment to run the card if you yourself are also playing free spells
@@legendarydragoon1462 What is the actual problem if you are also running free spells? Stompy decks can easily cast a fury and the Beseech decks run veil of summer. If they are cracking the bauble it usually means that they are desperate to get something before they die. I see no problem with this if the opponent is stuck with free counters in hand in this scenario.
1:48 your Ring Door Bell chime, chimed. You should change that sound notification. I did. 😂
Vintage is like modern yugioh, trust me in this
Yeah, it is! Yu-Gi-Oh is based on free interaction to stop your opponent's combo deck in their tracks and force them to play midrange, which is exactly how Vintage plays nowadays. Vintage is by far the healthiest format in Magic right now BECAUSE of those games, and Yu-Gi-Oh is no different.
As Staxx player. I'm just glad Vexing Bauble exists. People keep forgetting about Boromir, but iz fine.
I have no opinion on vexing bauble but legacy players are so salty about dimir. 😂 they been crying about different versions of dimir since deaths shadow. They are fine with turn 2 combos and free spells. But in little hand hate and a froggy boy make them lose their shit.
I started playing at "The Dark" and tbh you kids have gotten far too used to simply not paying for spells.
Unpopular opinion. Personally, I like the bubble. Yes, it disables the ability to interact with an opponent, but there are also advantages. The format has become more positive towards decks without blue color. 25% of the current meta is a dimir control/reanimator or doomsday combo. To be honest, I like that blue mages finally need to think about what to do, and not just cast force of will or daze while they also have so much cantrips and ways to draw cards. But I'm not saying that we need to leave everything as it is. Personally, I would just restrict the use of this card to 1 in the deck.
did MH3 break every format?
How long is MTG's life span? It has been around for awhile. Like D&D, it has aged well....or has it?
How much longer will it last?
If current trends continue it will die
I play magic online for most of my games. On magic online in general cards are cheaper. So people tend to play tier 1 cards cause it's affordable. Which is fine and should be enjoyed. But I even have less money so I got do something to compete. So I play cards that slow my opponents. It's not that crazy
Do you want to make the game more fair?
STAX THE COMBO:
Green) "Each activated ability of permanents your opponents control costs 1 more for each time they activated an ability this turn."
White) "Whenever a triggered ability of a permanent your opponent control trigger, if it's not the first triggered ability controlled by that player to trigger this turn, counter it unless that player pays 1 for each time a triggered ability they control has triggered this turn."
Blue ) If a nonland permanent would enter the battlefield under the control of an opponent, if it's not the first nonland permanent entered onto the battlefield under that opponent's control, phase it out.
Red) "Whenever an opponent casts a spell, if it's not the first spell they have cast this turn, > deals damage to that player equal to the number of other spells that player has already cast this turn."
Black) Whenever a nonland permanent enters the battlefield n under the control of an opponent, if it's not the first nonland permanent entered onto the battlefield under that opponent's control, ...boh, exile a permanent / exile a card from hand and a card from the top of library or graveyard .... IDK
nah, vexing bubble (and similar "if no mana was spent" effects) are hilarious and force people to start interacting more. i play commander, but some of my best combos involving casting things for free regularly get stopped or punish me because of cards like these, and so I have removal and counters ready for them (and I can also use them for other problems!)
rock it.
Vexing bauble doesnt is fine is legacy. Sideboards exist for a reason.
Vexing Bauble is egregious because you can turn it off any time you want and you get a card out of the deal.
Also you're completely wrong: Vexing Bauble doesn't force people to start interacting, it forces people to mulligan to 2 force 2 blue card hands in order to be able to drop a single land before they're dead.
@ you dont have to use free spells you know lol
@@diamonddudeygo how does vexing bubble stop you from dropping a land? it's solely to stop 0-mana spells (storm/cascade/etc. and they have to spend 1 and sacrifice this hate to get an extra card) I'm lost about this.
@@ArenaRat-xd8fu i say free, but i run a jeskai energy deck, so it costs me energy to do it. but it doesn't count as mana so it gets countered or I take damage etc. funny interaction.
Isn't it the other way around, Vexing Bauble keeps blue in check?
74% playing Force of Will!!
You say: "Force of Will and Daze keep the formats broken cards in check"
But that is also saying that they force you to play blue to have access to those cards.
Blue is broken in all formats even where Force and Daze are not legal. It is about time to, give room to other colors. Either keep Vexing Bauble and unban it in Modern or reduce the efficiency of counter spells.
I think daze is far scummier than force
Blue isn't broken anywhere (except Vintage). Blue is the color that keeps the game interesting. 74% are playing Force of Will not because the card is too good, 74% are playing Force of Will because it's the card that gives fair decks a fighting chance against fast combo decks. "Reducing the efficiency of combo decks" just kills Legacy and turns it into a fast combo fest where no player is ever caught interacting with their opponent.
Seems like it makes more types of decks viable in that format. I like the card.
The same people who were glad about the bans that happened to EDH players are the same who are complaining about these cards, who would have thought?
Honestly? If 2 cards that are busted as hell (Lets not pretend they aren't here, free "no" is insane even now) are the only things holding up an entire format then your format is faulty on premise. Not to mention that they are purely blue cards, making sure that one color is the key color of a format. Like I love the IDEA of Legacy but if it boils down to dropping 400+ dollars on a playset of Force or get comboed out then I would rather not play it. At least Vexing Bauble is a way to force players to adapt into a different metagame.
"Free spells are busted and ruin the game!"
"Noo dont stop me from casting free spells aha"
Current mtg space it a nutshell.
I play a lot of legacy bauble is a problem only because without fow and daze the format becomes turn 1 wins consistently. Frog however is a skill issue. I play lands and painter so i dont play it but have never had a problem dealing with it. Its stong but not ban worthy.
"It's strong but not ban worthy" Meanwhile the current UB supremacy meta is completely being carried by the frog. My guy I have to doubt your "I play a lot of legacy" claim for just because of that.
I do not play modern i havent since rtr I see this card it says no bs I like it this is the mosf oblique check and balance ive ever seen it is now getting added to one of my eternal format decks
oh no you have to spend mana to cast you spells what a fucking shame.
@@Y00bi You don't understand legacy and it shows
@@copred You don't understand sarcasm and it shows.
This card is peak i run it in all my decks since it dropped
Time to put Vexing and Psychic Frog in every deck.
It's a good card that stops or slows free cast not sure what the issue is. Free cast is broken bs anyway.
Man I called this in spoiler season. Although this card is fine. It's just stopping broken stuff.
I love and enjoy the bauble a lot even in draft
Why did Void Mirror not break it before?
Personally for me I would rather see a healthy format and lose money on cards being banned, than to see an unhealthy format where my cards hold value. I will take the hit on the money side, I don't care about losing the money and I am not a rich man.
Bauble is great for the format. "Wahhh my counter spells have to cost mana"
Only one problem. Reprint the reserved list!!! Hear hear!!!
Vexing Bauble stays. Its one of my favorite cards because its an answer to unfair magic.
Love the legacy content Shaf, keep it coming!
So they want to play counter, but don't want someone else to counter their counter. That's immature behavior. We all grow old, but not all of us grow up.
it's not so much that so much as games consistently ending turn 1 going first if free counters didn't exist.
The "free" counterspell (paying a card in hand is a bigger cost than any mana requirement!) is the only thing keeping Legacy playable. Combo decks are interesting and cool to have in any given format, but a metagame where the best decks are all capable of ending the game on turns 1 or 2 is not a fun metagame.
If it's fair to play "free" counterpell, it's fair to play counter counterspell.
What's with this "we" crap? Sure, some cards are problematic, but if new powerful cards are what we're gonna get instead of reprints of expensive staples, then that's fine by me.
As an EDH player, i genuinely don't understand why psychic frog is considered so broken. Can someone explain?
* Can be used to pay for Force of Will or Grief
* Can draw you cards, evade, and scales with discarding
It converts card advantage into an evasive threat, while generating card advantage. 20 years ago Psychatog was the best creature in magic, this is the powercrept updated version of it.
@@85inexact i can 100% see how that makes it a very powerful card, it's obviously a threat that needs to be dealt with. I guess i just don't play enough 60 card to understand what makes it SO good that everyone wants it banned
@@icedragon9097 20 life, one opponent. Dump hand and swing. Its over insanely quick.
@@icedragon9097 Issue is that the decks that benefit from a really strong two drop were already really strong decks. The frog gives them a cheap, all in one creature tool which is just pushed the meta to the point where best decks are UB shells playing frog, eldrazi and painter playing 8 copies of anti blue blasts (and it's just matter of time until painter lists start playing the frog too).
If Vintage and Legacy can't handle the idea that you have to spend mana to cast spells, then it deserves to die. Next they need to create another bauble that stops players from cheating cards into play. Learn to brew with a mana curve.
Lol stupid take. Reanimate and animate dead are sweet
One Ring will be banned? Buy them this year 😔
I feel frog is fine in modern, energy and the one ring need killed atp though.
Long live TOR
@ArenaRat-xd8fu it's in about 60% of decks...it can die for its own sins.
@@billlong4586 its not in 60 percent of all decks lol its in 60 percent of the registered decks, thats a huge difference. Just git gud
@ArenaRat-xd8fu and at 60% of registered decks make it a problem. The "git gud" argument doesn't apply when it's an ubiquitous card in that many decks and the card draw it provides, the protection, and minor and delayed draw back and the fact that it will inevitably get you a second copy to reset the counters. You clearly don't play modern, or are an investor in the one ring, both of which shouldn't be discussing bans in modern.
@ youre just a crybaby who refuses to adapt
Vexing bauble. I play that shit main deck in sneak attack. Cuz it beats show and tell
I think there should be vexing lands
I think for vexing bauble to continue to exist, you almost have to bring back Mental Misstep. I'm pretty sure no one wants that, so it'd be safer for bauble to go. Nadu probably should go because I think the format is going pretty heavy into Breakfast combos and though there are 3 distinct versions of Nadu in legacy... That makes it pretty hard to truly understand which version you're playing against, being either the breakfast combo, nadu midrange, or the chord variant.
The most hilarious thing about Nadu in its current state is that it is currently one of the lowest cost entry points to legacy. You may think you need dual lands, but actually these numbers are going down, people aren't playing full sets anymore. Wasteland, Blood Moon, search blockers actually hard punishing manabases. There are arguments for heavier basic land counts.
I do want to point out that even though these are turn 2 kills a la speed of YuGiOh, at least it isn't drawn out. YGO kills still need like 20-30minutes of actions before resolving the turn 2 kills...
Also, I just wanted to say kudos. Calling Modern the new Block Constructed is so on point. I couldn't agree more!
Winning in YGO does not take 20-30 minutes of actions. If your opponent takes more than 5 minutes on a single turn you probably should have called a judge 3 minutes ago.
Buhu, I have to actually spend mana?! 😡
Vexing bauble stops the bullshit
Vexing Bauble stops fair decks from interacting with the bullshit. You'll notice it's not fair decks playing Vexing Bauble, it's the insane balls to the wall turn 1 combo decks.
@ vexing Bill is such a good side piece to add as a two of or four of. In commander it’s debatable. However, in 60 card formats, it slows down the play considerably. When someone can cast for free spells a turn or just slam omissions down turn 2 and dump their hand on the board. I think bobbles is a good way to put that nonsense. All they have to do is run more artifact removal. It’s not a big deal most do.
yes please ban all the new OP cards you just printed wizards
How many people can actually afford to play these formats
Playset of Vexing Bauble seems like cheap and solid start for a rogue deck.
And everyone laughed when I said that card vexed me.
nothing wrong with vexing bauble or psychic frog, GET GOOD STOP CRYING is the LGBT Cry babies that are ruining this game
I love how the banned some of my favorite decks just to print MH3 a few years later and ruin the format even more. The meta for the past 5 years or so has pushed me over to Flesh and Blood. The community is so much better. MTG is way better for coverage though.
Bring back top and DRS!
Long live modern horizons
This card is fair
I run it in my Inferno of the Star Mounts, and I lent it out to another player and they dropped the bauble. I was playing Stella Lee and it turned the game into an awesome puzzle for me
Only combo players are mad they they cant can’t free spells over and over. I think its a fair defensive stax card
You have it completely wrong: Fair blue deck players are mad the only tools at their disposal to interact with the unfair combo decks that kill you on turn 1 aren't enough anymore because Bauble exists. You need to have a Force and a blue card for the Bauble, then a Force and a blue card for whatever the combo is. That's not feasible or realistic.
Fair card
They sound vexed
Who told y'all that you were supposed to be able to play spells for free and cheat things out all the time? Some people need to be forced to play fair Magic.
@Cybertech134 the point ThrabenU makes in his analysis (which I kind of agree on) is that the Blue decks are in the fair decks category.
Something needs to slow Legacy down a bit since the number of decks with Turn 1/2/3 win potential is on the rise.
A Vexing Bauble ban might do this by not allowing 1 FoW check to determine the game.
I am not convinced it needs to happen yet, but I do have my Chalice of the Voids and Trinispheres back on standby, just in case.
This vexes me
Vexing Bauble can't ruin any format. Being able to cast spells for free ruins formats.
You are very adamantly wrong.
I think it's hilarious that this card is obviously ridiculous for all the typical reasons: one mana, can sac itself so only affects opponent... at this point if you still give WotC your money you have nobody but yourselves to blame. I knew this card would be hated IMMEDIATELY after reading it, but somehow the people whose job this is did not?
So a card that says play fair magic makes people cry. Good, let your hate flow, the tears give me power. Sounds like formats need to evolve. Business as usual is never good.
Play out all your 0s into vexing is the playpatern into busted combos it doesn't facilitate fair magic. It's a card which shuts of a lot of interaction for the most part
@akorthouwer sounds like a format with all cards available to it should be able to change and adapt instead of complain about cards and scream BAN.
@@peggle09 that's definitely a valid argument. Eternal formats are a lot more about mulligans and winning die roles. Since games can be much faster. Just didn't agree with the forcing to play fair part, cause that's not how the card is used.
It doesn't say "play fair magic". It says "your opponent isn't allowed to interact with your bullshit as you masturbate all over the board and kill them". Very different concepts.
The fact that it counters all spells regardless of mana value, as long as they were cast for free, is a design mistake.
Vexing bauble wasn't designed to counter ornithopter, or tormod's crypt, or even moxes and LED's. It was designed to counter force of will.
It's too late to take it back, but I believe this design decision was not intended and led to the card being way stronger than it should've been.
Honestly, it's fine. It's slow formats back down and makes people work for their wins again. It's the anti-sweat/tryhard card.
@@LiteDrift That's exactly the opposite of what it does in practice: It just allows you to vomit your hand while your opponent isn't allowed to interact. If your opponent ever makes the grave mistake of tapping their lands to cast a spell, you just get to win.
Griefs not the problem anymore what's next