Mister Wim your Art for me is a real inspiration and a discovery, as a piano student from berlin i am used to today’s expectations and tempos, and i do love many different pianists, but your way of music making is really a perspective opener as well, i really hope you have a peaceful and healthy life where you can keep performing your art always. Thank you truly!
This style of piano performance is exactly how I was taught by my teacher, Dr. Leo Podolsky, who was trained in Russia before the Russian Revolution. My teacher's basic tempo theory was to play as musically as possible, while not rushing. My teacher also taught me that older instruments were not capable of as fast tempi as modern pianos. Dr. Podolsky was a very lyrical pianist, like Wim.
Bravo! That was beautiful. Thank you so much for your continuing work. I love listening to your finished pieces which you reconstruct and play so beautifully. Your channel is truly a gem for lovers of classical music.
Cool Historical Stats: MVT I: He's playing between 27 and 28 measures per minute. That would be MM 1/4.dot = 112 (+/-2) - Whole Beat, of course! (8.67 for 4) MVT II: He's playing about 8 measures per minute. That would be MM 1/8 = 96 (+/-2) - Whole Beat. MVT III: He's playing about 26 - 27 measures per minute. That would be MM 1/4 = 108 (+/-2) - Whole Beat. Documented numbers from 1800* are: 25 measures per minute for Allegro in 6/8 time; 7 measures per minute for Adagio in 3/4 time; and 25 measures per minute for Allegretto in 2/4 time! Great tempi, Wim!!! *The note values are of great worth in knowing, and are the reason for the adjusted tempi.
@@DanielFahimi Because when I hear Wim play it I can hear string textures in my mind's ear. And the stateliness of the rhythms reminds me a lot of the string quartets Mozart was writing at the time. Even more, though, an imaginative arrangement can help you look around the music three-dimensionally, to see latent possibilities not exploited in the original instrumentation.
After hearing this all the way thru, I listened to Mitsuko Uchida's performance of this on a Steinway concert grand, which clocked in @ 14:16. It's feel to me is a lot different even though it's the exact same piece. Your performance, as usual , wonderful, but if this was played on a modern concert grand to a modern audience (modern defined 1900-2019) the same way done here, it probably wouldn't go over very well. I think a lot of the young aspiring classical music pianists know this, that the fan base here isn't your typical classical audience.
@@GerardvanR Whether I agree with his metronome theories or not, I'm glad to have somebody here performing this way on the actual sort of instruments. A plus to anybody who cares to listen.
I think this sonata works very well on the clavichord at this slower tempo. It can sound rather lightweight, even trifling, on a modern piano played at the 'usual' tempo. But I doubt it would work so well on a modern piano at this slower tempo, perhaps because a concert grand is too heavy an instrument for this approach. There is something about the intimacy of the clavichord and the way each note decays that suits this work at this slower tempo (and to my hears links the music to CPE Bach sonatas). The slow movement is particularly sensitive and beautiful.
HI Wim I have been watching some of your videos for a couple of weeks now. First if all you are a very sensitive and expressive musician. I find your concept of double beat very interesting, however, even if I don't have your historical knowledge (I'm a musician myself with a good knowledge of music history but not as good as yours) I try to understand how musicians today would have lost that double beat concept. That would be nice if you could explain why? Or if you have one of your video to suggest me? There are very interesting recordings of the end of the 19th century to listen to. Francois Plante, who heard Chopin playing and was the first person ever to record 2 Chopin study. It is funny how it seems nearly to confirm your theory. Rubinstein was referring Plante as a very good and accurate pianist. There is also a recording of Brahms playing an arrangement of his Hungarian dance. The recording is extremely bad, but you can hear the speed that he was playing himself for his own composition. Also, you can hear the voice of Brahms introducing himself. You can find those recording on youtube. We also have recordings of Rachmaninov himself playing his own pieces. I have the vinyls of those recordings myself. It is very interesting to hear how Rachmaninov doesn't respect his own sheet. In term of tempo,... There are also recording of Rachmaninov playing Mozart, Chopin,... It is funny to hear the liberties that the russian take. With the tempo as well. Now the speed is definitely increased compare to the double beat theory. I don't know what to think about it. I love how playing sensibly slower can improve the expressivity. Argerich is an amazing pianist but on her recording of Liszt sonata for exemple, she plays so fast than you can't hear the end of the phrase clearly. Like somebody talking too fast and you can understand what the person is saying. If we listen to Cortot, the speed is clearly increased as well, and he still have a very 19th century playing. Thank you for that Mozart interpretation, whatever if your double beat theory is right or not, it was interesting and very sensitive interpretation. I enjoyed it. Very expressive and I discover things in this sonata that I didn't know.
Must make some dedicated videos to that great question, here's one that goes in the direction of answering: ua-cam.com/video/O4kMXYb2pZM/v-deo.html That little Brahms clip is stunning indeed... btw, it is not his voice, but that of the assistance of Edison, Dr Fellinger!
@@AuthenticSound thank you for your answer. I'm very decapointed. All this time I thought it was the voice of Brahms himself! Anyway, thank you for all your very interesting videos and if I can suggest, more video of you playing would be amazing! I love Scarlatti and a lot of wonderful pianist play his work as fast as an extreme fingers exercise. I would love to hear Scarlatti on your instrument playing by you! I have heard a concert in Brussels many many years ago at the MIM (museum of music instrument) and it was amazing! I just wanted to say that since I started watching your videos, I listened music and play music differently. Since I'm a child, Im a huge fan of Rubinstein. And Rubinstein never really play as fast as most pianist does today. But such a level of expression! The nocturne in c minor for exemple, on the doppio movemento, Rubinstein take a very slow tempo compare to many pianist. But his expression on that nocturne haven't been match by any recorded pianists, as far as I know and in my opinion. Rubinstein was a 19th traditional musician. Now, I still love to hear modern pianist, I also think that the instrument as it is today, allow us to play faster with a lot of expression and musicality.
I think that Mozart's clavichord was smaller, not so big and long. He liked it very much und used it first line for home use and composing. Here you can enjoy it: mozarteum.at/mozarts-instrumente/#mozarts-originalinstrumente-section
Can imagine that feeling. Partly it is because today we lost the original meaning(s) for allegro. See for instance Czerny's extensive descriptions of allegro, starting with "calm". He gave 10 (or 12), see his opus 500 pianoforte school.
AuthenticSound I see there is a debate between the “single-beat” and “double-beat” markings of the metronome in trying to accurately estimate how fast composers of Mozart’s day played. Mozart was quoted himself as saying something to the effect about playing a piece faster is preferable. I need to look that quote up specifically to get a word for word. If we take this ‘allegro’ tempo you play this final piano sonata of Mozart’s at, and apply it to those symphonic works that bare only Allegro markings, how different would they sound? I’m inclined to think his allegro was a bit faster than this, but I’m no expert on the matter. I’m curious of what your interpretation of his allegro assai or molto allegro tempi would sound like. All things considered, I really don’t worry about the technicalities as much though because sometimes playing a faster piece a little slower, or a slower piece a little faster can bring out different feelings and emotions from the music. I let the music speak to me, and go with it on a more interpretative level. It is good to figure out how the great masters wanted their creations to be played though, and in that regard, I like what you do in presenting that to us from an academic viewpoint. In the end, the beauty of a Mozart or a Bach, etc, can be enjoyed through many interpretations without losing what made those pieces special to begin with. We may never truly know how they great masters of the 18th century or earlier wanted their music to be played, but I don’t think they would mind at all knowing it is still being performed.
First! I would have been first to Like too, but I didn't have access through the phone I was on ... :( My piano teacher said the same thing, "What if he had lived a bit longer". He was so on his way to getting even better had that been possible. WOOHOOO!!! Counting the minutes!
@@Clavichordist No worries, John! We have a day off here - Independence Day - and we had leftovers, so no need to be the chef! I hope you're Dad's well.
Mister Wim your Art for me is a real inspiration and a discovery, as a piano student from berlin i am used to today’s expectations and tempos, and i do love many different pianists, but your way of music making is really a perspective opener as well, i really hope you have a peaceful and healthy life where you can keep performing your art always. Thank you truly!
Thank you
J‘adore cette interprétation!
This style of piano performance is exactly how I was taught by my teacher, Dr. Leo Podolsky, who was trained in Russia before the Russian Revolution. My teacher's basic tempo theory was to play as musically as possible, while not rushing. My teacher also taught me that older instruments were not capable of as fast tempi as modern pianos. Dr. Podolsky was a very lyrical pianist, like Wim.
Thank you for sharing this Roger. There do not seem to be many recordings made by Leo Podolsky, or am i wrong about this?
This is indeed touching, thank you for this, Mister Wim Winters!
Bravo! That was beautiful. Thank you so much for your continuing work. I love listening to your finished pieces which you reconstruct and play so beautifully. Your channel is truly a gem for lovers of classical music.
Thanks!
Fantastique 😍
Such subtle dynamics. This is very lovely.
This is great, Wim.
Amazing. I would love to listen to this at the fortepiano...
yes
Me too!
I recommend you to listen to Ronald Brautigam's fortepiano performance of Mozart's sonatas. The fortepiano of his sounds very good.
Me too :-)
Beautiful!!!
Well done Wim, as usual🎶🎹🎯
I hate that I missed the live chat, I tried so hard to be able to tune in on time, but I am absolutely loving listening to this now!
Thank you for your great playing, know i know why i always felt bad when i was hearing those mozart players plaing so fast.
Superb!!
Very cool
Cool Historical Stats:
MVT I: He's playing between 27 and 28 measures per minute. That would be MM 1/4.dot = 112 (+/-2) - Whole Beat, of course! (8.67 for 4)
MVT II: He's playing about 8 measures per minute. That would be MM 1/8 = 96 (+/-2) - Whole Beat.
MVT III: He's playing about 26 - 27 measures per minute. That would be MM 1/4 = 108 (+/-2) - Whole Beat.
Documented numbers from 1800* are: 25 measures per minute for Allegro in 6/8 time; 7 measures per minute for Adagio in 3/4 time; and 25 measures per minute for Allegretto in 2/4 time!
Great tempi, Wim!!!
*The note values are of great worth in knowing, and are the reason for the adjusted tempi.
I would love to hear this arranged as a string quartet ...
@@DanielFahimi Because when I hear Wim play it I can hear string textures in my mind's ear. And the stateliness of the rhythms reminds me a lot of the string quartets Mozart was writing at the time. Even more, though, an imaginative arrangement can help you look around the music three-dimensionally, to see latent possibilities not exploited in the original instrumentation.
@@DanielFahimi It's impossible to choose, really, but the K516 G Minor quartet really speaks to me. ua-cam.com/video/-RWsgnZZrZQ/v-deo.html
After hearing this all the way thru, I listened to Mitsuko Uchida's performance of this on a Steinway concert grand, which clocked in @ 14:16. It's feel to me is a lot different even though it's the exact same piece. Your performance, as usual , wonderful, but if this was played on a modern concert grand to a modern audience (modern defined 1900-2019) the same way done here, it probably wouldn't go over very well. I think a lot of the young aspiring classical music pianists know this, that the fan base here isn't your typical classical audience.
@@GerardvanR Whether I agree with his metronome theories or not, I'm glad to have somebody here performing this way on the actual sort of instruments. A plus to anybody who cares to listen.
I think this sonata works very well on the clavichord at this slower tempo. It can sound rather lightweight, even trifling, on a modern piano played at the 'usual' tempo. But I doubt it would work so well on a modern piano at this slower tempo, perhaps because a concert grand is too heavy an instrument for this approach. There is something about the intimacy of the clavichord and the way each note decays that suits this work at this slower tempo (and to my hears links the music to CPE Bach sonatas). The slow movement is particularly sensitive and beautiful.
HI Wim
I have been watching some of your videos for a couple of weeks now.
First if all you are a very sensitive and expressive musician.
I find your concept of double beat very interesting, however, even if I don't have your historical knowledge (I'm a musician myself with a good knowledge of music history but not as good as yours)
I try to understand how musicians today would have lost that double beat concept. That would be nice if you could explain why? Or if you have one of your video to suggest me?
There are very interesting recordings of the end of the 19th century to listen to.
Francois Plante, who heard Chopin playing and was the first person ever to record 2 Chopin study. It is funny how it seems nearly to confirm your theory.
Rubinstein was referring Plante as a very good and accurate pianist.
There is also a recording of Brahms playing an arrangement of his Hungarian dance. The recording is extremely bad, but you can hear the speed that he was playing himself for his own composition.
Also, you can hear the voice of Brahms introducing himself.
You can find those recording on youtube.
We also have recordings of Rachmaninov himself playing his own pieces. I have the vinyls of those recordings myself.
It is very interesting to hear how Rachmaninov doesn't respect his own sheet. In term of tempo,...
There are also recording of Rachmaninov playing Mozart, Chopin,...
It is funny to hear the liberties that the russian take. With the tempo as well.
Now the speed is definitely increased compare to the double beat theory.
I don't know what to think about it. I love how playing sensibly slower can improve the expressivity.
Argerich is an amazing pianist but on her recording of Liszt sonata for exemple, she plays so fast than you can't hear the end of the phrase clearly. Like somebody talking too fast and you can understand what the person is saying.
If we listen to Cortot, the speed is clearly increased as well, and he still have a very 19th century playing.
Thank you for that Mozart interpretation, whatever if your double beat theory is right or not, it was interesting and very sensitive interpretation. I enjoyed it.
Very expressive and I discover things in this sonata that I didn't know.
Must make some dedicated videos to that great question, here's one that goes in the direction of answering: ua-cam.com/video/O4kMXYb2pZM/v-deo.html That little Brahms clip is stunning indeed... btw, it is not his voice, but that of the assistance of Edison, Dr Fellinger!
@@AuthenticSound thank you for your answer. I'm very decapointed. All this time I thought it was the voice of Brahms himself!
Anyway, thank you for all your very interesting videos and if I can suggest, more video of you playing would be amazing!
I love Scarlatti and a lot of wonderful pianist play his work as fast as an extreme fingers exercise.
I would love to hear Scarlatti on your instrument playing by you!
I have heard a concert in Brussels many many years ago at the MIM (museum of music instrument) and it was amazing!
I just wanted to say that since I started watching your videos, I listened music and play music differently. Since I'm a child, Im a huge fan of Rubinstein. And Rubinstein never really play as fast as most pianist does today. But such a level of expression!
The nocturne in c minor for exemple, on the doppio movemento, Rubinstein take a very slow tempo compare to many pianist. But his expression on that nocturne haven't been match by any recorded pianists, as far as I know and in my opinion.
Rubinstein was a 19th traditional musician.
Now, I still love to hear modern pianist, I also think that the instrument as it is today, allow us to play faster with a lot of expression and musicality.
I think that Mozart's clavichord was smaller, not so big and long. He liked it very much und used it first line for home use and composing. Here you can enjoy it: mozarteum.at/mozarts-instrumente/#mozarts-originalinstrumente-section
Lovely, but isn’t this tempo a tad slower than ‘Allegro’?
Can imagine that feeling. Partly it is because today we lost the original meaning(s) for allegro. See for instance Czerny's extensive descriptions of allegro, starting with "calm". He gave 10 (or 12), see his opus 500 pianoforte school.
AuthenticSound I see there is a debate between the “single-beat” and “double-beat” markings of the metronome in trying to accurately estimate how fast composers of Mozart’s day played. Mozart was quoted himself as saying something to the effect about playing a piece faster is preferable. I need to look that quote up specifically to get a word for word. If we take this ‘allegro’ tempo you play this final piano sonata of Mozart’s at, and apply it to those symphonic works that bare only Allegro markings, how different would they sound? I’m inclined to think his allegro was a bit faster than this, but I’m no expert on the matter.
I’m curious of what your interpretation of his allegro assai or molto allegro tempi would sound like.
All things considered, I really don’t worry about the technicalities as much though because sometimes playing a faster piece a little slower, or a slower piece a little faster can bring out different feelings and emotions from the music. I let the music speak to me, and go with it on a more interpretative level. It is good to figure out how the great masters wanted their creations to be played though, and in that regard, I like what you do in presenting that to us from an academic viewpoint.
In the end, the beauty of a Mozart or a Bach, etc, can be enjoyed through many interpretations without losing what made those pieces special to begin with. We may never truly know how they great masters of the 18th century or earlier wanted their music to be played, but I don’t think they would mind at all knowing it is still being performed.
thanks for sharing your thoughts! One thing: he was quite opposed to the Schnellspieler, see for instance his famous remark of Vogler's playing
First! I would have been first to Like too, but I didn't have access through the phone I was on ... :(
My piano teacher said the same thing, "What if he had lived a bit longer". He was so on his way to getting even better had that been possible.
WOOHOOO!!! Counting the minutes!
I missed it. I had to bring dad to an appointment and shopping. sighs...
@@Clavichordist No worries, John! We have a day off here - Independence Day - and we had leftovers, so no need to be the chef! I hope you're Dad's well.
@@thomashughes4859 He's fine. It was one of those appointments he made 6 months ago and we forgot about it. Figures
Barenboim should be forbidden to play Mozart. What he did to this sonata is a crime against humanity
Mi sembra troppo lenta
I hear you. Listening habits are strong. try it a few times and see how you react on listening to a faster performance.
Sorry but that is just too damned slow.