How Do Pros Avoid BRICKING ECUs
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- It's no good having software and interface tools to edit your ECU data if you cannot read or write to it.
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Reflash tuning is more popular than ever thanks to advances in software and interface capabilities, along with the fact it is harder and harder to fit a standalone ECU to a street-driven vehicle if you don't want it stripped out, as Jan Buyse from Autotuner helps explain along with the 3 main methods used to interface with an ECU for reflash tuning. They are via the OBD2 port, BDM (background debug mode) or bench tuning. All come with their own pros and cons, as well as risks of 'bricking' an ECU, which isn't necessarily unrecoverable, as explained.
We dive into what products like Autotuner are, why they are popular with commercial tuners along with how the master and slave system works for tuners. We also discuss the use of binary editors, like WinOLS, which Autotuner works hand in hand with as well as some of the differences between the likes of the European tuning market vs the United States.
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TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - Reflashing Is The Go-To
0:21 - Autotuner
0:27 - Why A Secretive Industry
1:47 - Why Is The Euro Market Different?
4:29 - What Is Autotuner
5:48 - Used With WinOLS & Similar Binary Editors
6:40 - What Is WinOLS?
7:05 - Different To Tuning
7:21 - Map Packs
8:10 - Whole Process Worth Learning
9:00 - File Services: Master & Slave
10:37 - Pros & Cons
11:48 - Over Time, More Masters
12:44 - File Services: Some Are Better Than Others
13:17 - Why Use This Alternative (If you have other options)?
14:53 - B2B No Ongoing Costs: Upfront Only
17:06 - OBD2 Vs Bench Vs BDM
17:22 - OBD2 & It’s Limitations
18:59 - Start Fresh
19:28 - Bench Read
21:20 - ‘Bricking’ Avoidance
22:37 - BDM - Background Debug Mode
24:31 - Data Logging & Analysis
27:19 - Thanks Jan!
28:00 - The More You Know The Faster You Go!
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TAGS:
#highperformanceacademy #autotuner #winols #sema #buildtunedrive #learndriveoptimise #motorsport #learntotune #dieseltuning #datanerd #auto #carmods #automotive - Авто та транспорт
The more you know, the faster you go! But timestamps still might help you get there 😂
0:00 - Reflashing Is The Go-To
0:21 - Autotuner
0:27 - Why A Secretive Industry
1:47 - Why Is The Euro Market Different?
4:29 - What Is Autotuner
5:48 - Used With WinOLS & Similar Binary Editors
6:40 - What Is WinOLS?
7:05 - Different To Tuning
7:21 - Map Packs
8:10 - Whole Process Worth Learning
9:00 - File Services: Master & Slave
10:37 - Pros & Cons
11:48 - Over Time, More Masters
12:44 - File Services: Some Are Better Than Others
13:17 - Why Use This Alternative (If you have other options)?
14:53 - B2B No Ongoing Costs: Upfront Only
17:06 - OBD2 Vs Bench Vs BDM
17:22 - OBD2 & It’s Limitations
18:59 - Start Fresh
19:28 - Bench Read
21:20 - ‘Bricking’ Avoidance
22:37 - BDM - Background Debug Mode
24:31 - Data Logging & Analysis
27:19 - Thanks Jan!
28:00 - The More You Know The Faster You Go!
Man! Thank you so much for your interviews! The best!
As a megasquirt user, bricking the ecm is part of the experience.
Man I used to work on 2.7t Audis and I can agree
Let me rephrase the answer to the question:
People earn big bucks with reflashing ECUs. They dont want others to do it too and eat into their income, so they shroud it in secrecy.
That isn't always the case, but for information that is fresh to the market some people do want a competitive advantage which isn't unique to this industry.
We like to be open, but we do understand why it isn't always the case in this area with late model options.
Note, no one is stopping anyone else from figuring things out either, and you have to balance out those who just want to benefit from others work without lifting a finger themselves. Their opinions don't really matter and they contribute nothing to the industry compared to those who are trying to learn, putting in effort and are just looking for some help along the way.
At least aftermarket ECU tuning isn't like this anymore to the same extent it once was, could be worse! - Taz.
@@hpa101no the guy is right when it comes to the European croud, it's a bunch of greedy asshats hiding as much as they can so they can charge as much as they can. Don't be fooled.
Absolutely. Tuning shops/companys in germany/ europe completely suck. Take apr forexample- they charge 800€ for a copy paste stage 1 tune. Absolute ripoff. Autotuner / Kess etc etc dont want to make it easy to tune oem ecus just so it can stay expensive and exclusive. You can think what you want but this is absolute dickhead mentality . Thank god theres forums and pirated software.
I did say that it isn't always the case, not that there aren't tuners out there who are greedy asshats, some of them charge and arm and a leg and don't even do a good job. You get the same the world over though, and that type of tuner is why HPA was created so I guess we can thank them for that at least 😂 - Taz.
So true, @erdinca.2448
I don't like this philosophy. In fact, in my view I think it's quite selfish for the average enthusiast who just wants to learn their own car. Companies like Autotuner, Alientech, Magic Motorsports and bFlash (there are more) completely block that out from us and want to keep the secrecy in the tuners. I know there are more companies that do not work like this but that is not really the case for the majority of european car brands/mainstream models.
I think they would still earn money (if not more) if they did or had a "per vehicle" option like HP Tuners. More average people would buy it.
It's just my opinion.
And thanks for your great service @hpa101 🫡 (not irony)
One of the big issues is doing major mechanical modifications, cams, capacity increases, big turbo upgrades etc and then trying to manipulate the modern stock ecu to accommodate these upgrades and still keep the ecu watchdog circuitry from trimming maps down and throwing a fit.
That's why I prefer to fit multimap standalone ecu's and start from scratch and with very careful mapping still meet emission targets
You are not wrong, the more modifications there are to the airflow, the harder it gets.
The fact is though that with many late model cars a standalone ECU is simply not an option. You can't just bang one in like we could for years and years as the stock ECU manages so much more than just the engine now.
There are always exceptions to any rule and there are so many different applications you would tune a car for, there just simply isn't a best path and none of them come without comparative compromises - Taz.
Thanks for this, what's really need in a wide spread country like Australia is some sort of remote tuning.
Most tuners offer remote services with standalones at least. The beauty of email.
Will ecm titanium work the same way with this tool as it does with kess? What options does a beginner have to be able to modify maps without having to learn winols?
Looking for WinOLS training? Enrol in the WinOLS Mastery: Map Identification & Editing course today: www.hpacademy.com/courses/winols-mastery-map-identification-and-editing
Learn at your own pace from your own place with lifetime access and a 60-day refund policy if you decide this isn't for you after gaining some real insight and knowledge.
WinOLS even has a free demo version you can use as you work through the course material and examples while you figure things out, how good! - Taz.
Time for tuning the Rev limter on speach. Awesome product though and almost to the point that a oem ecu is a good option to get in older vehicles
The number one killer is battery voltage being to low to reflash the car. Successfully
The real reason for the first question is what he does is called a emissions defeat and in the US for example they will be sued. The EPA is actively going after these companies. Therefore they stay quiet and discrete.
These guys are only offering you away to read and write the data it’s totally up to u what u do with it.
Piss on das EPA!
Don't know if I would agree with that for a few reasons, first being it has been secretive long before the EPA cracked down in the US. Europe also have their own laws.
We all have our own opinions of course and I'm no more right or wrong than you, cheers for sharing yours 😎 - Taz.
what convention was this interview done at?
SEMA 2022. We were short-staffed for a few months and are only just catching up on the edits now - Taz.
Here in the United States if it’s not cobb sct or hptuners or a off the shelf canned tune you better start reading and learn to do it yourself there are a couple small groups that do Bosch but that’s about it
It will grow and grow if the likes of COBB and HP Tuners don't keep up - Taz.
@@hpa101 agreed, honestly I don’t consider myself a master tuner but I’m able to figure out people’s problems adjust fueling timing and I’m actually pretty experienced at tuning automatic transmissions and I always encourage people to do their own research and learn the tuning process so they understand what they want their car to drive like and if the end up learning enough that I lose a customer because I taught them how to tune so be it there’s always more customers
Euro tuning systems are really complex. Even if you give someone a complete definition file it's not straightforward how to add timing. There are multiple maps with some of them influencing other maps, then you get into the 1d, 2d, and 3d limiters and any one of them can be the limit, potentially based on a calculation done internally.
You might be a wizard in your home town because you can get a holley system down the track but that doesn't prepare you in any way for a KFMIOP map limiting your KFMIRL.
There's a 1.8t tuning pdf that gives some insight into how to make a tune for a relatively basic 20 year old euro ECU.
Even if you value your time at $2/hr the time it will take you to learn enough German to understand the full name of the map makes it worth paying for a tune for most people on most cars.
The most incredible part of all the BMW tuning is how simple companies like bootmod3 have made it. Even an ecu like emtron/motec seems simple compared to whats available in an OEM setup.
We cover the Bosch MED ECU in our WinOLS course which is used in MANY European platforms.
A Bosch EDC example is in production which will have the course covering both gasoline/petrol and diesel applications for these popular Bosch options. We'll assess what comes next from there, based on demand.
Just in case that helps: www.hpacademy.com/courses/winols-mastery-map-identification-and-editing
That covers the definition side of things. if you want to use it to tune, it is a different skill as you mentioned in passing, and we cover that in our practical tuning course material - Taz.
support@hpacademy.com
If you get a definition file like a DAMOS and don't have the functional description to go with it, or a similar suitable one, you're basically stabbing in the dark if you are doing any sort of hardware change (fuel system modifications or DPF deletes for example) and it will take a ridiculous length of time to work out everything that you need without reverse engineering the software yourself first.
The beauty of modifying the engine ECU in this way is that you literally don't need to change to an aftermarket ECU to get massive performance increases from huge turbo builds and so on, you can simply adjust the OEM ECU to do exactly what you want using whatever hardware you want.
@@diesel-technology5507 the function description is a ~10,000 page document. Even if you can translate it it is still complex for the average tuner.
@@JohnDoe-mx1sq I suppose it depends if you want to spend time or money.....or both. Certainly installing a Haltec or Link ECU then you're short cutting a lot of the headache and literally have 99% of what you need out of the box. That comes with a cost, and if 5000 or whatever the cost of the ECU is could be spent on a set of better engine components in order to make an extra 100hp then people will do that instead if there is an option that allows them to. The European market is fairly focused on modifying the original ECU rather than installation of an aftermarket one, and I think it's because of this mentality to get as much power for as little expense as possible.
Master and Slave is the keyword.
These locked engine management systems reminds me of the VW scandal, where the car could detect that it’s on a emissions diagnostic system and detune its self to meet emission’s standards.
Total BS.
Did you put a “Max Headroom” filter on this?
Sorry for the dig but he’s talking like a politician.
Also there’s some really bad popping in this video, and it’s f’ing up my sound-system and ears!
You should integrate an audio pass filter in your editing that runs through the Soundtrack and detects pops and whistles.
All good editing and audio software has that function.
🇦🇺🤜🏼🤛🏼😎🍀🍀🍀
I hope this guy tunes better then he speaks!
What's wrong with the way he speaks fatboy?
It's always a little tricky with a camera in your face and 100's of people walking past at SEMA, but I thought Jan did well, all things considered, as a first-time guest speaking a second language 😎 - Taz.
Exactly, he did great
I wonder how you would cope in a second or even third language 🤔 in public with a camera in your face 🤔