Can we take a moment to appreciate the torque these 3-phase induction motors are putting out in order for the wheel to slip despite all the weight on top ?
More like take a moment to appreciate how much the control software restricts the torque to prevent the wheels slipping, as opposed to DC traction motors which let rip when they lose traction.
@@crackasaurus_rox9740 all depends on how they're run! Look into the US rail industry some and you'll see it's not the trains themselves that are the problem. I'd be happy to provide you with resources.
Hope they build one of these new fangled "train roads" through my town, will certainly bring economic growth what with all them fancy iron wheels and carts and whatnot.
This is actually quite fascinating to watch. Despite an incredible amount of torque available to the wheels. It doesn't lack precision/control. Unlike back in the day when a steam locomotive had massive torque as well, but feathering like this wasn't an option. "GROUND'er hard today didn't ya? Left a new mark in the rail, sucks for the next guy to get stuck in it!"
@@KarolOfGutovo true it is why steam engines were filled with pipes, to controll the flow of steam. But controlling it precisely took an incredible amount of skill, especially since there was no camera screen to watch the wheels with.
Apparently all Siemens have that distinctive whine, there are a few subways from the eighties still going here in Buenos Aires, as a kid I loved that sound when the train started moving, first the violin like whine and then fans starting up, for cooling I assume. These cars where made here by Fiat - Materfer, with electrics by AEG and traction by Siemens
You might want to check out the Taurus locomotives from Siemens, they have an interesting electrical circuit for driving their motors that produces a toneladder, a false one, but still, a toneladder.
@@rainbowrailroadcrossing7798 Washing machine motors are, probably not 3-phase, because some kind of pulse-modulation used on single-pole motors (our Zanussi one is using carbon brushes and only 1 coil) has already increased their efficiency so much compared to the old days. When our first Zanussi (from the 80's) broke, and we had to buy something else, we were astonished seeing that new machine being capable of 1200 rpm for final rinse, as opposed to the 300rpm the old Zanussi did and we thought that was fast. That washing machine broke down once and we had it serviced, and the person who replaced a PCB in it made it run through a test program in which it would so all parts of most programs supershort, including final spin. Since it was not actually filled with laundry however, it didn't have to find out if it was balanced well enough, so it made a low, aggressive sounding humming sound and spun up stupidly fast as if listening to a big industrial 3-phase motor being started. That one eventually broke down in a different way and the manufacturer made sure that part was unrepairable (broken bearing) and we got a new one. We now have a Zanussi again, which has final spin at 1400 rpm. When there is laundry inside and the balance is good, it sometimes also does it's first check spin and when it notices nothing to be out of balance enough for it to go into final spin immediately, it makes this same low humming sound only to keep it at 400-500 rpm, and then make a screeching sound and takes off right up to 1400rpm. It's pretty impressive what single phase motors can do these days due to the technological advancements made in engine control. Elevators probably are running at three phase yes, but usually use a big reduction gearbox. As for electric bicycle motors: not sure what they use, just like washing machines, it's much easier to get a very controlled amount of power out of single-coil/single phase motors these days, and I feel a three-phase type of setup, no matter how easy it is to make three-phase out of single-phase power feels a bit overkill and unnecessarily complicated for something like an electric bicycle.
Yeah, I mean it seemed pretty easy to me. Its kind of difficult to get sand under the driver when its standing still. Once it got moving at all it was a done deal.
As a freight driver in the UK, this looks like its more of a case of the driver pulling away before the brakes have fully released on the rear of the train. Vectron's are amazing machines, no doubt about it!
@@rupamsaha2289they throw burst of sand to the rails so that the train can get some traction since its metal to metal contact, the fascinating thing about this whole situation is how something so small like a handful of sand can help so much to move all those tons of weight. Btw im not an expert by any means, but i did my research :)
@@adammeaders248 because there is no way to throw sand under the wheels when its stationary, when it starts moving a tiny bit then the sand helps to get that grip needed
The noise is from the variable frequency drive supplying power to the electric motors. This is similar to the hum you hear from some electrical appliances. In this case, when starting from a stop, the main frequency is very low, but the "carrier" frequency is pretty high. You hear the carrier frequency. This is similar to how an AM radio works, although there, you hear the lower frequency. The VFD allows the motor to supply full torque at any speed.(yes I know that's untrue, but for most people its fine)
@@rodrigocunha34 sorta. In the sense that you are pulsing the supply, but It is more that you are controlling the frequency of the AC current, not the period of time the current is on. You can have 60hz at 50% duty cycle with PWM, but a vfd will give you the equivalent of 30hz 100% duty cycle. That way the motor spins at half speed but full torque. In this scenario, PWM will give you half torque at full speed. Modern VFD's do some pretty neat torque control. By monitoring the way the current is accepted by the motor, it can tell when the motor starts to slip. In a fraction of a second, it will reduce the torque to the motor to a level when it wont slip. Then go back to increasing the torque as frequency(and therefor RPM) increases, until it sees another slip. This will put as much horse power into the rail as the traction of the rail will allow(rain, heat, oil, sand all affect this). I'm surprised by how long it take in this video to control the slip.
must have been terrible rail conditions. and it's satisfying to think about how the engineers at siemens put another level of thought into the control software for the IGBTs. they had to have have studied the physics of rail transit thoroughly to be able to create software that knows exactly what the requirements are for any given scenario, and apply the power to the motors accordingly. siemens makes consumer level vfds too and i have been wanting one
Put into perspective, it's pretty impressive how little contact the wheels have with the sleepers, and that it's metal to metal, that it manages to get forward at all considering how much weight it has to haul.
I think you mean "rails". Sleepers are what maintain the gap between the rails (4 ft, 8.5 inches if they're "Standard Gauge") The point you're making is right, tiny contact patch shifting a big load
That is exactly the reason why transportation on railroads is so energy efficient. In the street/rubber tyre system of trucks on roads, you lose much energy just by deformation of the tires.
@@samuellourenco1050 they have enough power to spin, spinning on rails is no bueno though as you can put divots into the rails. You’re just seeing a very delicate application of power that was just enough to get the train moving.
Why does the traction motor make that distinctive sound? I noticed you can hear a really loud version of that same sound on German ICE high speed trains when they are moving slowly too.
I don't know about the "BWAAAAAM" at 0:39, but the high pitched whine is a motor controller, likely a Variable Frequency Drive. There are a few different ways to work it out (PWM for DC, synchronous DC and asynchronous AC), but basically what you're hearing is pulses of electricity, delivered by high power semiconductors (think transistors on steroids), changing the voltage/current going through the motor. This is needed because motors draw more current at standstill than when rotating. When spinning, they act as generators and push back against the voltage supplied (back-EMF). Each motor has unique features, but most have torque-current relationships that are fairly close to linear, especially older motors, meaning the slower they spin, the more torque they produce and the more current they draw. They also tend to have peak power at 50% "no load RPM". So if your motor is producing 100Nm at peak power (half speed) drawing 100A, when locked up (not moving) it will probably draw around 200A. Since the output power is 0 (mechanical power = rpm x torque), 100% of the power will become heat. A VFD (or other motor controller) allows you to knock back the voltage delivered to the motor, so if the above values were taken at 100V, it could run a 50% duty cycle at stand-still to only push 100A through the motor, then bump up the voltage as the train gets moving to prevent melting the motor.
Cuthbert Nibbles , very good to know how much current and voltage that the train generator produces . I'm an electronic tech myself , I work on guitar tube amps or solid state . So I have to work with high voltage all the time . Upwards of 800 volts sits on the plates of many of the tubes that are in these amps. But trains are something that captured my interest. Just amazed how much power they can produce.
@@CuthbertNibbles The drive wheel moves at the limit of adhesion to the rail. "BWAAAAM" is sometimes created in locomotives with modern three-phase drives.
That is why there is a sand-applicator aboard to have it put on the tracks to increase grip in case if that is needed. Useful on wet tracks, iced tracks.
Crusher dust, a sharp edged sand, that is ground into the surface between the rail tyre and the rail, to keep the tyre from skidding. It increases grip by making the surfaces rougher as you start to take off, but does not cause too much wear on the tyre or the rail.
From my engineering student days, I recall hearing that the coefficient of static friction is greater than the coefficient of dynamic friction. In fact, a slight amount of slip (~15%) was optimum.
From an article online: Siemens' modern engines produce up to 4,200 horsepower, and the generator can turn this into almost 4,700 amps of electrical current. The drive motors use this electricity to generate around 60,000 lb-ft of torque. There is also a secondary diesel engine and generator to provide electrical power for the rest of the train. This generator is called the head-end power unit, producing between 500 and 700 kilowatts (kW) of electrical power.
@@michael931 Wow! That’s awesome!!! Thanks for the info. I just got back from The Sacramento, CA Train Museum. It’s incredible to see the old steam locomotives and then to see this on here. We have come a long way.
@@michael931 Edit because I'm stupid. I was looking for the Siemens Taurus, which is an entirely electirc engine, didn't read the title and was confused why you were speaking of Diesel. However, the absolute beast named Taurus has impressive 10.000 horsepower.
Depends on where in Europe the Vectron is used. In Germany, Austria (and I believe Switzerland too, but not sure) it can pull up to 600A from the 15kV, 16 2/3 Hz overhead wire.
From Steam to semi-conductors. Seeing the motor control unit allowing a small slip is a feast of engineering. A closed loop system following an algorythm, reading the actual movement of the train, compare it to wheel speed, and output just enough electrical impulses on the motor to achieve the desired amount of torque selected by the operator. All this in milliseconds. Humans are ingenious for good things and sadly bad things too.
@@Master10k2 There's hardly something more simple, cheap and effective to gain some grip on wet steel. No reason to change it. There's a lot less need for it these days thanks to massive improvements in electronic antislip controls but sometimes you need that little extra grip. The use of sand is usually prohibited over switches except in emergencies as it can cause wear as it mixes with grease for the mechanisms.
can someone explain the liquid jet? looks like a modern version of throwing sand on tracks to increase traction. I'm guessing water would make things slide more, so it's some sort of adhesive? or is it just coolant? Wheels didn't seem to spin fast enough to warrant coolant usage for the tracks.
they could do the same thing as was done building the IORE locomotives in Kassel - thich steel plate in the body and especially heavy boogies. The IORE was built for 30 metric ton of axle load which means that it wasn't really possible to transport them to Luleå in an assembled shape - they were delivered with unmotorized delivery boogies.
I think a locomotive like the Stadler EuroDual would be more successful in North America. Six axles and the ability to run on Diesel as well, e.g. on yards or non elecrified branches
@@georgobergfell Not enough power and no established manufacturing capable of producing and servicing enough units would stand in the way. Siemens is also currently developing a dual mode locomotive based on the Vectron, which has already been purchased by Amtrak.
Try doing this with a steam loco or early diesel. Wheel slip early locos was not recommended as control was difficult. The Siemens system allows a small percentage
@@Studio23Media I thought it had to do with a rating since he said “rated torque” honestly it still seems like his comment has a little tiny bit to do with the manufacturer published rating at this time. I get what he was trying to say was a general comment, but then how would you describe the torque accurately, I believe with a unit of measurement, the rating. You are correct about the physics involved thanks, I do understand the torque output curve.
More than 50% comments are - "what is that thing coming out of pipe?(i.e. sand). So UA-cam should modify the software a bit & show this comment with number of people ( making that comment). This will save repeating the same question say, 300 times. 😊
In the steam days that was common. You couldn't really throttle a steam engine and this resulted in Grove on difficult tracks that only got worse so the next train got stuck in the same palce...
Just wondering, is this in any way driver skill, or is it fully automated? Those slips look scary! Any why weren't they putting sand down at the beginning?
Train drivers don’t have gearshifts and accelerator pedals. They don’t have such fine control of the motors - they have maybe 3 to 7 detents on their throttle to choose from
Can someone explain to me what the mechanism directly in front of the wheel is? Not sure if it’s supposed to be shooting out liquid, or if it’s draining rainwater, so I’m just confused 😅
sand is used to get more friction betwen steel wheel and steel track. But it only works if the train is moving. If the train is standing still the sand just gives a bigger obstical to climb.
For those people saying this is wheelslip, your wrong. This is called wheel creep and the electronics can control the wheel speed faster than the road speed, it also heats up the wheel face to create better adhesion between the two metal surfaces. When this creep exceeds a set limit for a computed time, the computer will auto sand to add further adhesion. Wheel slip/slide occurs on braking only.
if you meant the start, that's because if the train loses electrical contact with the rail, it won't move, not be grounded and in some railtrack systems will switch the train signal allowing other trains to enter the same rail, therefore risk collision if the oncoming train doesn't stop all of it's weight in time
@@lukes07 Aaahhhhh, my ignorance of modern electrified rail is amply displayed. At least, I learned something, which is why I ask questions. Thanks for the lucid reply.
What was that fluid or whatever... metal shaving looking stuff the pipe dumped onto the track in front of the drivewheel once it started getting traction and momentum? I'm assuming it's something to modify the friction between wheel and track. Educate me please!
The Siemens traction motor's sound like the Siemens S70 light rail. The Siemens SD160 has a little bit of the hum while in regenerative braking from the braking resistors on the roof. But the DC traction motor's of the Siemens SD100 are quiet. More blower noise than motor hum.
For a second I thought they were out of sand, like why aren't you using your sand? Maybe it won't really work unless you are moving? I think it may be a gravity fed system so perhaps it would just pile sand on the rail unless you are already able to move.
In Hungary, literally almost every cargo train is moved by 40-50 years old hungarian electric locomotives or by soviet diesel locomotives of the same age. How is this Siemens locomotive struggling then? It must be a lot better than decades old equipment
Traction, hence why sand is eventually poured out. The struggling bit is a system trying to prevent wheelspin by limiting further power increase. Think of it as traction control intervening. The heavier the consist, the more problematic traction will be. Simply adding power will not be enough, the added power must be properly distributed. This is why long trains have locomotive on both ends. In extreme lengths common in North America (especially Canada), there are locomotives in the middle because coupler strength is becoming an issue as well.
Because the Vectron only has four axles (Bo'Bo') it puts out much less torque on the tracks than say a DB-232 (Ludmilla) or DB-151 with their six axles (Co′Co′). Six axle trains are rarely seen on Germany's tracks since they need more maintenance and wear out the rails more quickly, so most of them have been replaced with newer models that can struggle in some situations.
Why wheels are getting sprayed with water? Isn't that makes track even more slippery? Also does Loko driver initiate that manually by listing to slippery sounds?
Something tells me this isn’t a normal train, but my recommendation remains the same, all trains should be electric and the cars they pull should have assist motors in them, this can also work if we start off with diesel electric hybrid trains and in the event of power failure use the Diesel engine to send some power down the rails to the cars it’s pulling, that way traction is spread across the load.
@@nrk306351 what I mean by hybrid (a thing made by combining two different elements; a mixture.) is that the diesel trains are referred to as diesel and that they would run both from the grid through a third rail or catenary and on their own power from the Diesel engine depending on the situation and grid availability, the term electric electric hybrid would seem at best like a typo
What you are describing already exists. It is called an electric multiple unit, and is very normal. The Japanese Shinkansen for instance, has always done it this way.
Can we take a moment to appreciate the torque these 3-phase induction motors are putting out in order for the wheel to slip despite all the weight on top ?
That has to be at least 50 Nm.
More like take a moment to appreciate how much the control software restricts the torque to prevent the wheels slipping, as opposed to DC traction motors which let rip when they lose traction.
This train has a maximum power output of 6.4 Megawatts and a max torque of 300 KN so it's quite powerful for a 90ton class train
@@MiG21aholic We can (and we do) also control DC motors to avoid slip.
@@JeanLucCoulon nowhere near as effective as this (American locos anyway)
I think these train things are a great idea and will probably catch on as an efficient transportation system. It's something to consider investing in.
lol
They're really not. Dedicated transport lanes are not used in most cases because they are inefficient in most cases.
@@crackasaurus_rox9740 all depends on how they're run! Look into the US rail industry some and you'll see it's not the trains themselves that are the problem. I'd be happy to provide you with resources.
They're _very_ efficient - in fact, I think only ships are more efficient in terms of cargo. Unfortunately they are also very expensive to build out.
Hope they build one of these new fangled "train roads" through my town, will certainly bring economic growth what with all them fancy iron wheels and carts and whatnot.
Vectron engineer #1: Can you call the conductor?
Vectron engineer #2: Why?
Vectron engineer #1: We need more violinists...
I never knew I will see a 🎻 joke here 😭
Just wait until you hear the motors shifting gears...
@@user2C47 be quiet
Looool
@@user2C47 I see what you did there. 😅
This is actually quite fascinating to watch. Despite an incredible amount of torque available to the wheels. It doesn't lack precision/control. Unlike back in the day when a steam locomotive had massive torque as well, but feathering like this wasn't an option. "GROUND'er hard today didn't ya? Left a new mark in the rail, sucks for the next guy to get stuck in it!"
Modern diesel electrics can slip like that. That traction control was very effective.
@@michael931Well, that is because the drive is, like you said - electric :D No difference at the wheels to a fully electric train.
Steam could be feathered. Not quite as precisely as electric, but you could control the throttle more than just on/off.
@@KarolOfGutovo true it is why steam engines were filled with pipes, to controll the flow of steam. But controlling it precisely took an incredible amount of skill, especially since there was no camera screen to watch the wheels with.
Pretty sure you could have seen the wheels jusf by looking outside or feeling it.
Apparently all Siemens have that distinctive whine, there are a few subways from the eighties still going here in Buenos Aires, as a kid I loved that sound when the train started moving, first the violin like whine and then fans starting up, for cooling I assume. These cars where made here by Fiat - Materfer, with electrics by AEG and traction by Siemens
The BART trains in the San Francisco bay area sound pretty similar as well
@@Demonslayer20111 becouse they are siemens eurosprinters with a diffrent front
Cool! Seems like lot of roller coaster motors,washing machine motors, elevator lift motors, electric bike motors are 3 phase too
You might want to check out the Taurus locomotives from Siemens, they have an interesting electrical circuit for driving their motors that produces a toneladder, a false one, but still, a toneladder.
@@rainbowrailroadcrossing7798 Washing machine motors are, probably not 3-phase, because some kind of pulse-modulation used on single-pole motors (our Zanussi one is using carbon brushes and only 1 coil) has already increased their efficiency so much compared to the old days.
When our first Zanussi (from the 80's) broke, and we had to buy something else, we were astonished seeing that new machine being capable of 1200 rpm for final rinse, as opposed to the 300rpm the old Zanussi did and we thought that was fast.
That washing machine broke down once and we had it serviced, and the person who replaced a PCB in it made it run through a test program in which it would so all parts of most programs supershort, including final spin.
Since it was not actually filled with laundry however, it didn't have to find out if it was balanced well enough, so it made a low, aggressive sounding humming sound and spun up stupidly fast as if listening to a big industrial 3-phase motor being started.
That one eventually broke down in a different way and the manufacturer made sure that part was unrepairable (broken bearing) and we got a new one. We now have a Zanussi again, which has final spin at 1400 rpm.
When there is laundry inside and the balance is good, it sometimes also does it's first check spin and when it notices nothing to be out of balance enough for it to go into final spin immediately, it makes this same low humming sound only to keep it at 400-500 rpm, and then make a screeching sound and takes off right up to 1400rpm. It's pretty impressive what single phase motors can do these days due to the technological advancements made in engine control.
Elevators probably are running at three phase yes, but usually use a big reduction gearbox.
As for electric bicycle motors: not sure what they use, just like washing machines, it's much easier to get a very controlled amount of power out of single-coil/single phase motors these days, and I feel a three-phase type of setup, no matter how easy it is to make three-phase out of single-phase power feels a bit overkill and unnecessarily complicated for something like an electric bicycle.
Very impressive, the Vectron handled that amazingly well.
@@Izziana PRAISE BE TO VECTRON
Yeah, I mean it seemed pretty easy to me. Its kind of difficult to get sand under the driver when its standing still. Once it got moving at all it was a done deal.
Hail Vectron.
This didn't look like struggling. I'd consider calling it a struggle when it takes more than 15 minutes to get the train on the go.
LOL
I have no words to explain how much I love this, I love trains, and especially their wheels
LOL
Reminds me of ASDF movie
"I like trains"
I love trains and their wheels too. Infact next time i am at rail tracks i will put my penis on the tracks to give the trains more traction.
That's some weird fetish to have... but hey my bible doesn't ban it so whatever floats ya boat
Praise Vectron!
Gotta love the sounds these units make.
The ice express makes that sound
The S-Bahn Hannover makes similar sounds, feels like home hearing it
The U-Bahn HK subways or The Amtrak Siemens ACS-64, or the Bombardier 1800’s on the MBTA redline
@@jordanfgfox7237ah yes, Intercity-Express-Express. also, no, they don't, it's different sounds
kinda sounded like a little song when it was trying to find grip
As a freight driver in the UK, this looks like its more of a case of the driver pulling away before the brakes have fully released on the rear of the train. Vectron's are amazing machines, no doubt about it!
Using sand to give the wheels more traction.
Thanks mate. Was wondering about that thing poured into the tracks. Never knew of the existence of such a dedicated mechanism.
Yep sand we used that in the coal mines for our man trip locomotive to gain traction
My train simulator game actually has sand that I use 🤣
До 10 км/ч - нельзя песок давать
0:43 u can see how spray water with sand on the rail.
The sand perfectly placed on the tracks is amazing
Can you please tell what was that? And why was that used?
@@rupamsaha2289they throw burst of sand to the rails so that the train can get some traction since its metal to metal contact, the fascinating thing about this whole situation is how something so small like a handful of sand can help so much to move all those tons of weight.
Btw im not an expert by any means, but i did my research :)
@@MichelOcampo thanks bro ❤️, that's interesting tho , how that small amount of sand can provide intense grip .
@@MichelOcampo why it threw the sand AFTER it got moving is my question. Kind pointless at that point I think.
@@adammeaders248 because there is no way to throw sand under the wheels when its stationary, when it starts moving a tiny bit then the sand helps to get that grip needed
The noise is from the variable frequency drive supplying power to the electric motors. This is similar to the hum you hear from some electrical appliances. In this case, when starting from a stop, the main frequency is very low, but the "carrier" frequency is pretty high. You hear the carrier frequency. This is similar to how an AM radio works, although there, you hear the lower frequency. The VFD allows the motor to supply full torque at any speed.(yes I know that's untrue, but for most people its fine)
i called VVVF
like PMW?
@@rodrigocunha34 sorta. In the sense that you are pulsing the supply, but It is more that you are controlling the frequency of the AC current, not the period of time the current is on. You can have 60hz at 50% duty cycle with PWM, but a vfd will give you the equivalent of 30hz 100% duty cycle. That way the motor spins at half speed but full torque. In this scenario, PWM will give you half torque at full speed. Modern VFD's do some pretty neat torque control. By monitoring the way the current is accepted by the motor, it can tell when the motor starts to slip. In a fraction of a second, it will reduce the torque to the motor to a level when it wont slip. Then go back to increasing the torque as frequency(and therefor RPM) increases, until it sees another slip. This will put as much horse power into the rail as the traction of the rail will allow(rain, heat, oil, sand all affect this). I'm surprised by how long it take in this video to control the slip.
must have been terrible rail conditions. and it's satisfying to think about how the engineers at siemens put another level of thought into the control software for the IGBTs. they had to have have studied the physics of rail transit thoroughly to be able to create software that knows exactly what the requirements are for any given scenario, and apply the power to the motors accordingly. siemens makes consumer level vfds too and i have been wanting one
Put into perspective, it's pretty impressive how little contact the wheels have with the sleepers, and that it's metal to metal, that it manages to get forward at all considering how much weight it has to haul.
I think you mean "rails".
Sleepers are what maintain the gap between the rails (4 ft, 8.5 inches if they're "Standard Gauge")
The point you're making is right, tiny contact patch shifting a big load
That is exactly the reason why transportation on railroads is so energy efficient. In the street/rubber tyre system of trucks on roads, you lose much energy just by deformation of the tires.
The contact patch is only about the size of a penny I believe
The motors are so underpowered that there was hardly any wheel slip.
@@samuellourenco1050 they have enough power to spin, spinning on rails is no bueno though as you can put divots into the rails. You’re just seeing a very delicate application of power that was just enough to get the train moving.
Very cool, thank you! I get a warm fuzzy feeling watching railway technology videos like this haha
This is not good
hats off to cameramen hanging so nicely
It’s shiey, not him
@@howado Did you just assume it's gender ?
Also let's take a moment to appreciate the fact the wheels are still working well inspite being very thin. (likely needed fresh wheels soon after)
Fascinating - perhaps I have too much time on my hands but I really enjoyed watching this!
Styx - Too much time on my hands.
2 min 40 sec should be feasible for everyone if you consider how people throw away their freetime with more pointless activities
AJR: Worlds smallest violin
Meanwhile Siemens Vectron: 🎻🎻🎻
0:30 is one epic e-guitar rift 🎸
シーメンス社って本当いい音出す
日本では引退しちゃったけど今でも大好きです！
First bit i was screaming to put sand down, but was so satisfied when the operator did
you need to drive a few centemeter befor the sand works if you are standin still the sand gives a bigger obstical to climb
@@hmcredfed1836 yes, but slippage can be avoided
Why does the traction motor make that distinctive sound? I noticed you can hear a really loud version of that same sound on German ICE high speed trains when they are moving slowly too.
I don't know about the "BWAAAAAM" at 0:39, but the high pitched whine is a motor controller, likely a Variable Frequency Drive. There are a few different ways to work it out (PWM for DC, synchronous DC and asynchronous AC), but basically what you're hearing is pulses of electricity, delivered by high power semiconductors (think transistors on steroids), changing the voltage/current going through the motor.
This is needed because motors draw more current at standstill than when rotating. When spinning, they act as generators and push back against the voltage supplied (back-EMF). Each motor has unique features, but most have torque-current relationships that are fairly close to linear, especially older motors, meaning the slower they spin, the more torque they produce and the more current they draw. They also tend to have peak power at 50% "no load RPM". So if your motor is producing 100Nm at peak power (half speed) drawing 100A, when locked up (not moving) it will probably draw around 200A. Since the output power is 0 (mechanical power = rpm x torque), 100% of the power will become heat. A VFD (or other motor controller) allows you to knock back the voltage delivered to the motor, so if the above values were taken at 100V, it could run a 50% duty cycle at stand-still to only push 100A through the motor, then bump up the voltage as the train gets moving to prevent melting the motor.
@@CuthbertNibbles interesting
Cuthbert Nibbles , very good to know how much current and voltage that the train generator produces . I'm an electronic tech myself , I work on guitar tube amps or solid state . So I have to work with high voltage all the time . Upwards of 800 volts sits on the plates of many of the tubes that are in these amps. But trains are something that captured my interest. Just amazed how much power they can produce.
@@CuthbertNibbles The drive wheel moves at the limit of adhesion to the rail. "BWAAAAM" is sometimes created in locomotives with modern three-phase drives.
@@dennismundt7378 This "BWAAAAM"-sound is a wheelslip
No burn outs here , gotta love the traction control
Amazing engineering feat to tame that much power and carefully control the traction for each axis individually.
May the power of Vectron bring prosperity to your house!
I thank you, by Vectron’s kindly claw.
That is why there is a sand-applicator aboard to have it put on the tracks to increase grip in case if that is needed. Useful on wet tracks, iced tracks.
What is that material that got spilled in front of the wheels? Is it for increasing drag?
It's sand. Increases grip on the railhead.
Crusher dust, a sharp edged sand, that is ground into the surface between the rail tyre and the rail, to keep the tyre from skidding. It increases grip by making the surfaces rougher as you start to take off, but does not cause too much wear on the tyre or the rail.
It is also used in emergency braking for the same reason.
Quartz sand (grain size 0.7-1.6 mm)
grease
From my engineering student days, I recall hearing that the coefficient of static friction is greater than the coefficient of dynamic friction. In fact, a slight amount of slip (~15%) was optimum.
I wonder how many amps that draws? Also, the sand drop system is pretty cool.
From an article online: Siemens' modern engines produce up to 4,200 horsepower, and the generator can turn this into almost 4,700 amps of electrical current. The drive motors use this electricity to generate around 60,000 lb-ft of torque. There is also a secondary diesel engine and generator to provide electrical power for the rest of the train. This generator is called the head-end power unit, producing between 500 and 700 kilowatts (kW) of electrical power.
@@michael931 Wow! That’s awesome!!! Thanks for the info. I just got back from The Sacramento, CA Train Museum. It’s incredible to see the old steam locomotives and then to see this on here. We have come a long way.
@@michael931 Edit because I'm stupid. I was looking for the Siemens Taurus, which is an entirely electirc engine, didn't read the title and was confused why you were speaking of Diesel. However, the absolute beast named Taurus has impressive 10.000 horsepower.
Depends on where in Europe the Vectron is used. In Germany, Austria (and I believe Switzerland too, but not sure) it can pull up to 600A from the 15kV, 16 2/3 Hz overhead wire.
@@MrMarci878 Wow!
Amazing! I thought the sounds from an ACS-64 was cool and it’s also built by Siemens too
By Vectron's mighty claw!
Engineer 🧑🔧: How much torque do you have and at which RPM??
6,400kW Induction Motor🚆: Yes
It is "only" 1600kW, but there are four of them 🤩
From Steam to semi-conductors. Seeing the motor control unit allowing a small slip is a feast of engineering. A closed loop system following an algorythm, reading the actual movement of the train, compare it to wheel speed, and output just enough electrical impulses on the motor to achieve the desired amount of torque selected by the operator. All this in milliseconds. Humans are ingenious for good things and sadly bad things too.
I love the primitive sand-dribbler in front of such a modern machines wheels. Does it have one for reverse too? How big is the sand hopper?
I was surprised to see that since I knew old steam locomotives had Sand Domes but didn't know they still used Sand to this day.
@@Master10k2 about 600 pounds for each end I believe. They have two bins, each holds 60 cubic feet of sand.
@@Master10k2 There's hardly something more simple, cheap and effective to gain some grip on wet steel. No reason to change it. There's a lot less need for it these days thanks to massive improvements in electronic antislip controls but sometimes you need that little extra grip.
The use of sand is usually prohibited over switches except in emergencies as it can cause wear as it mixes with grease for the mechanisms.
@@SimpleMechanic931 kilogrammes and cubic metres. . .
This was so satisfying to watch!
I don't know enough to say that that was impressive, but it definitely seemed impressive. :)
Very neat.
can someone explain the liquid jet? looks like a modern version of throwing sand on tracks to increase traction. I'm guessing water would make things slide more, so it's some sort of adhesive? or is it just coolant? Wheels didn't seem to spin fast enough to warrant coolant usage for the tracks.
It is sand. No liquid.
Hail Vectron!
Great Power of Siemens!
Siemens is an old phone company right?
ua-cam.com/video/icTrzUuWlHI/v-deo.html
@@xlncy Siemens is one of the worlds leading company in engeneering
Opel Vectron with problems in the curves?
I'd love to see Siemens make heavy freight electrics for America.
Would certainly be interesting. It's a shame we no longer have an electrified mainline like the Milwaukee Road.
I'd imagine they'd just keep the same Vectron design and either add weight or make it a double unit, since tractive effort would be the biggest issue.
they could do the same thing as was done building the IORE locomotives in Kassel - thich steel plate in the body and especially heavy boogies.
The IORE was built for 30 metric ton of axle load which means that it wasn't really possible to transport them to Luleå in an assembled shape - they were delivered with unmotorized delivery boogies.
I think a locomotive like the Stadler EuroDual would be more successful in North America. Six axles and the ability to run on Diesel as well, e.g. on yards or non elecrified branches
@@georgobergfell
Not enough power and no established manufacturing capable of producing and servicing enough units would stand in the way. Siemens is also currently developing a dual mode locomotive based on the Vectron, which has already been purchased by Amtrak.
Constant torque constantly... very COoL
My bicycle does the same thing on gravel. I just let off on the pedal to gain traction. 😂
Try doing this with a steam loco or early diesel. Wheel slip early locos was not recommended as control was difficult. The Siemens system allows a small percentage
just wondering why they putting the sand on after already moving without issue and not at the start? isnt that what its for?
A very interesting thing about torque as I understand it is that electric motors have 100% of their rated torque from a dead stop.
Yup.
Most of it, never trust a rating
@@MechaniclifeJDM What OP stated has nothing to do with the specific rating. Electric motors have near instant torque because of the physics involved.
yes but not the power since power is torque x rpm.
@@Studio23Media I thought it had to do with a rating since he said “rated torque” honestly it still seems like his comment has a little tiny bit to do with the manufacturer published rating at this time. I get what he was trying to say was a general comment, but then how would you describe the torque accurately, I believe with a unit of measurement, the rating. You are correct about the physics involved thanks, I do understand the torque output curve.
More than 50% comments are - "what is that thing coming out of pipe?(i.e. sand). So UA-cam should modify the software a bit & show this comment with number of people ( making that comment). This will save repeating the same question say, 300 times. 😊
Powerfull Motor , I Feel That Power .I Love Locomative .
Never thought I’d see a train do a burn out
In the steam days that was common.
You couldn't really throttle a steam engine and this resulted in Grove on difficult tracks that only got worse so the next train got stuck in the same palce...
BELLISSIMO VIDEO!!
Just wondering, is this in any way driver skill, or is it fully automated? Those slips look scary! Any why weren't they putting sand down at the beginning?
Fully automated. Usually you can only manually apply sand. Not sure why the engineer is not applying it at the beginning.
Train drivers don’t have gearshifts and accelerator pedals. They don’t have such fine control of the motors - they have maybe 3 to 7 detents on their throttle to choose from
@@bryanpassifiume1185 on the european electrics they usually have analog control from 0-100%.
3-7 notch throttle seems more like the US diesels.
Do they have wind sheild vipers?
@@xxJohnxx77 US diesels have 8. And often no solid state power drivers.
Also, yes. Locomotives have windshield wipers.
Can someone explain to me what the mechanism directly in front of the wheel is? Not sure if it’s supposed to be shooting out liquid, or if it’s draining rainwater, so I’m just confused 😅
It's a sanding nozzle with a heating element.
sand is used to get more friction betwen steel wheel and steel track. But it only works if the train is moving. If the train is standing still the sand just gives a bigger obstical to climb.
0:43 *what is that liquid stuff being ejected to the rail and wheel?*
It's sant to improve traction.
For those people saying this is wheelslip, your wrong. This is called wheel creep and the electronics can control the wheel speed faster than the road speed, it also heats up the wheel face to create better adhesion between the two metal surfaces. When this creep exceeds a set limit for a computed time, the computer will auto sand to add further adhesion.
Wheel slip/slide occurs on braking only.
BY VECTRON'S HOLY BEARD!
Great video. ☺
Was this unit pulling or pushing that train?
I was wondering the same thing
It was pulling the train
It was moving the train
Why were they not sanding?
if you meant the start, that's because if the train loses electrical contact with the rail, it won't move, not be grounded and in some railtrack systems will switch the train signal allowing other trains to enter the same rail, therefore risk collision if the oncoming train doesn't stop all of it's weight in time
@@lukes07 Aaahhhhh, my ignorance of modern electrified rail is amply displayed. At least, I learned something, which is why I ask questions. Thanks for the lucid reply.
Nice video 👌
Greetings from Poland
Greetings from Asia
какво е това което се излива върху колелото отпред и за какво служи ?
Пясък против буксуване.
Nice View Under the Verctron Greetings From Germany
Is that water spraying out of that nozzle. And if so how does that help?
It's sand for increased traction.
It's sand for more traction
That's salt..it causes the wheels to contract around the track thus slowing the train...🤥
@@karlafonin9241 incorrect. Also the train was trying to speed up so why would they do something that would make it slow down ? 🤡
shampoo😁
Would the sand before the pull would not be better?
I would wait until there was enough movement because it would probably be bad if it built up in one spot
Whats the thing spittin out goop on the rail called and whats it for?
A little train burnout.So impressive tho,It is incredible that the wheel glides despite so much weight.
The Vectron Sounds Like my Lego City Train when its battery is Out😂😂😂
Fine play with legoa
@@xlncy haha
What is coming out if that nozzle?
Whats the liquid getting dumped in front of the wheels, after it got traction and was moving!?
It's sand to give the train more grip
Whats the fluid sprayed on the track?
What is that spraying on the tracks , and what is it spraying??
What is the stuff being poured onto the track in front of the train wheel? Is that for grip or something?
its Sand, it helps with getting better grip between steel track and steel wheel
The pipe that feeds water onto the track. Anybody know what this device/system is called?
It´s sand not water and it is simply called sanding system.
If more traction is required, the operator should start sand _before_ starting, not _after._
What is that salt-like thing they are pouring on the tracks? Is it a kind of traction enhancer?
just sand.
What was that fluid or whatever... metal shaving looking stuff the pipe dumped onto the track in front of the drivewheel once it started getting traction and momentum? I'm assuming it's something to modify the friction between wheel and track. Educate me please!
its dry sand. used as an anti-lubricant to create more friction between rail and wheel
@@elyeryan8838 thanks. I assumed something of the sort but didn't know what it actually was. Thanks for responding!
Wow loved the pouring of the sand. First time seeing it.
What is the liquid squirted from the pipe? On the wheel
It's sand to increase traction
What is the nozzle in front of the wheel dispensing?
Lemon pepper seasoning
Very nice traction motor sounds
What's that being sprayed on the wheels?
The Siemens traction motor's sound like the Siemens S70 light rail. The Siemens SD160 has a little bit of the hum while in regenerative braking from the braking resistors on the roof. But the DC traction motor's of the Siemens SD100 are quiet. More blower noise than motor hum.
What is the white pooring the track
Ist das nicht eine 192/Smartron?
ex 193 972
We have the brake rotors and pads and shock absorbers in our storage... Its all massive
what does the casting say above siemens?
For a second I thought they were out of sand, like why aren't you using your sand? Maybe it won't really work unless you are moving? I think it may be a gravity fed system so perhaps it would just pile sand on the rail unless you are already able to move.
Yes thats right. Sand only helps you are already moving.
Not seeing any struggle, but very nice correct function.
In Hungary, literally almost every cargo train is moved by 40-50 years old hungarian electric locomotives or by soviet diesel locomotives of the same age.
How is this Siemens locomotive struggling then? It must be a lot better than decades old equipment
Traction, hence why sand is eventually poured out. The struggling bit is a system trying to prevent wheelspin by limiting further power increase. Think of it as traction control intervening.
The heavier the consist, the more problematic traction will be. Simply adding power will not be enough, the added power must be properly distributed. This is why long trains have locomotive on both ends. In extreme lengths common in North America (especially Canada), there are locomotives in the middle because coupler strength is becoming an issue as well.
Because the Vectron only has four axles (Bo'Bo') it puts out much less torque on the tracks than say a DB-232 (Ludmilla) or DB-151 with their six axles (Co′Co′). Six axle trains are rarely seen on Germany's tracks since they need more maintenance and wear out the rails more quickly, so most of them have been replaced with newer models that can struggle in some situations.
Obviously not better than the 🗝️ old
i´d say because the train is very heavy. Probably so heavy, that the old locos wouldn´t be able to move it.
The train in the video is likely much longer and heavier than anything those other trains are moving.
What's the spray for?
It's spraying sand under the wheel to give it some help with traction
Why didnt you drop yhe sand from the start?
In my country we have siemens emu's and they many times struggle to move when theyre overcrowded
What kind of country is that?
@@ray.upside-down India
@@loztbg2703 You guys each are what 500 pounds or something?
@@ray.upside-down Nah, they just hanging on the roof. No wonder then
@@pavelcerny9803 ughm how do you climb on the roof?
This is the inherent problem of frictional adhesion when you introduce burnished metal to metal components.
What's the liquid for?
Chuga choo choo. I'm a train and I approve this video :D
You can train but you will never be a train.
@@xlncy Your pickup lines must be good.
Why not shoot sand from the start?
On some countries, sanding from a stand still are not allowed. Because it could scratch the train wheels and tracks from dragging the sand grains.
@@harveywilde6781 Sand is going to scratch either way.
@@blackericdenice Yes I know, I said that wrong. My writing skill isn't that good. Just search for sanding restrictions or something like that.
It is a bad idea to sand around switches (the track circuit can give trouble but more important is the flat planes which supports the blades.)
@@TheStefanskoglund1 There were no switches.
When it slowed down sounded like my washing machine
Why wheels are getting sprayed with water? Isn't that makes track even more slippery?
Also does Loko driver initiate that manually by listing to slippery sounds?
Its sand to increase grip
Something tells me this isn’t a normal train, but my recommendation remains the same, all trains should be electric and the cars they pull should have assist motors in them, this can also work if we start off with diesel electric hybrid trains and in the event of power failure use the Diesel engine to send some power down the rails to the cars it’s pulling, that way traction is spread across the load.
You do know they are already hybrid right? Its a diesel generator that powers electric motors to move the train.
@@nrk306351 what I mean by hybrid (a thing made by combining two different elements; a mixture.) is that the diesel trains are referred to as diesel and that they would run both from the grid through a third rail or catenary and on their own power from the Diesel engine depending on the situation and grid availability, the term electric electric hybrid would seem at best like a typo
What you are describing already exists. It is called an electric multiple unit, and is very normal. The Japanese Shinkansen for instance, has always done it this way.
Why are the wheels so thin?
That motor sounded like my washing machine motor at the end.