Testing Proves Cables Make a Difference
Вставка
- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- In this video 'Tests Prove Cables Make a Difference' I'll show how noise is coupled into interconnect cables.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This site contains affiliate links for which I may be compensated.
As an eBay Partner, I may be compensated if you make a purchase.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Link to RG400 cable used in this video: amzn.to/4cRX8OE
Link to 18AWG hook up wire: amzn.to/3xQ4ByJ
Worlds Best Cable: amzn.to/3yEWTrT
Link to Omicron Lab (this is an item on sale at ebay): ebay.us/RAJg9K
Ebay link to Amazon meter: ebay.us/in2GZa
Ebay link to Southwire meter: ebay.us/La4FYA
Link to UDP3305S bench power supply: amzn.to/3Px1pgY
Link to UTG962E Generator: amzn.to/4ciXiit
KPS DMM9000BT Multimeter: amzn.to/3NHdSOl
________________________________________________________________________
Your support is much appreciated;)
Patreon - I really do appreciate your support? This support helps me purchase the equipment I use for testing a reviews. Patreon.com/KissAnalog
Send your one time donation to PayPal at: KissAnalog@gmail.com
Link to T-Shirts and more: www.redbubble.c...
________________________________________________________________________
pt.aliexpress....
es.aliexpress....
www.aliexpress...
Our official website for updating firmware: www.zotektools.com
Kaiweets store: Get 15% off; discount code KA15: kaiweets.com?sca_ref=1269738.glN6S8aePH
GW Instek MDO-2204EG: amzn.to/3Vo6UzW
GW Instek MDO-2204EX: amzn.to/3rvY7P...
MicSig Oscilloscope: amzn.to/3B4DcXe
Picoscope 3403D: amzn.to/35UytvC
MicSig Differential Scope Probe: amzn.to/3HvRG4A
Owon clamp meter: amzn.to/3N9LhB3
Picoscope 4444: amzn.to/3AYJzfu
OWON XDS3064AE 14 bit Oscilloscope: amzn.to/42junoK
Hioki DT4256 multimeter: amzn.to/3idmexS
Hioki DT4283 high end multimeter: amzn.to/3vCtSe8
ZOTEK ZT-702S Handheld Automotive Oscilloscope Multimeter: amzn.to/3HdG9Zo
Borbede BD-99: amzn.to/3DRgUbZ
Klein MM700 multimeter: amzn.to/3vm8JR3
Fluke 87V link: amzn.to/3l4QUCq
Fluke 117 multimeter link: amzn.to/3oS2Dnx
FLIR DM93 multimeter: amzn.to/3ebyASF
Kaiweets HT200B AC current clamp: amzn.to/33e3czt
Kaiweets HT206D AC/DC current clamp: amzn.to/2HzYLHO
Kaiweets HT118E: Link to Kaiweets HT118E: amzn.to/3Uz6UeJ
Amprobe AM570 multimeter link: amzn.to/3eurd8S
Zotek multimeter: s.click.aliexp...
AliExpress Store: bit.ly/3fkMlPb
Matrix 3 output: amzn.to/3MAmwxE
Matrix 32V 10A: amzn.to/41Qcmzb
Nice-Power 30V 20Amps: amzn.to/3qX3NEG
ITech 60V/8A/180W:amzn.to/48Mo9kA
ITech AC power supply: amzn.to/3NVj29M
ITech Electronic Load: amzn.to/3HeTyQR
Matrix LCR meter: amzn.to/48qxJd2
125ASX2: amzn.to/3Taksx5
ICEpower 125ASX2 (lower cost): ebay.us/NPZUWK
Power Supply (looks better than the one I have): amzn.to/3pgfQsp
Enclosure for Class D amp project: ebay.us/ETpmJx
TPA3255 Amp board: amzn.to/3H9uniH
Power Supply for TPA3255: amzn.to/3TSG8Bl
Class D amp project: ebay.us/ETpmJx
Thermal Camera Links:
IR Thermal Camera: amzn.to/3J92LJu
Infrared T2S Plus: amzn.to/3PhxMAJ
Infiray P2 Pro: amzn.to/45Q3Ukw
Topdon TC002: amzn.to/45OHcJr
Links to power stations and LiFePO4 batteries:
Use this link 5% Discount Code: KISSE600LFP：www.pecron.com...
Vanpowers SPP1500 Portable Power Station: bit.ly/3TI3tUe
Vanpowers:www.vanpowers....
Please use this discount Code for the Vanpowers Super Power Pro power station
5% OFF COUPON - Code: KissAnalog
Link for Redodo LiFePO4 battery: www.redodopowe...
use discount code【KissAnalog】
Link to Ecoflow River 2 (great price): amzn.to/3OodDsT
Link to Goldenmate LiFePO4 battery: goldenmateener...
Link to GoKWh battery: gokwh.com/gokw...
Link to GrenerPower Battery: amzn.to/3R9u5Ok
VEVOR Pure Sine Wave Inverter: US: s.vevor.com/bf...
Use the code "SAVEMORE5" for a 5% discount.
Miscellaneous :
Insulated Screwdriver set: amzn.to/3NZo0B5
Erickhill ES100 sound pressure meter: amzn.to/3LBW46l
Wild Badger Chain saw: amzn.to/46rtqNB
chain lube: amzn.to/48UcC3u
The placebo effect should never be underestimated. My HiFi always sounds better after I've eaten some sugar pills, or eaten a piece of fruit.
Personally I cannot get too excited about signals that show up when some change in the cables causes the noise floor to drop lower.
Amen, expectation factor because of the amount of money spent is the fallacy of fools with too much money to spend.
The placebo effect can be a great thing;) When the signals are lost in the noise floor - when it is so low - it really doesn't matter;)
Very impressive content. Big fan!
Much appreciated!
Is it time to test some boutique capacitors?.? I dare you..😮
LOL - I'd love to;) I don't know if I can afford them thought;) I do want to stomp some reality in this belief though...
Eddie , Great Video .
Thanks so much!
Hi Eddie, another great informative video. Thank you.
So nice of you
Haha, spectral decay? Maybe when the frequencies get so high, the cable starts acting as an RC circuit. Hundreds of megahertz would be my guess depending on length.
Thanks! You are correct. I did show this when I took the Bode plots out to the higher frequencies - they started acting nuts. This was so much higher than any audio equipment would produce signals;)
Thanks Eddie.
Too low to hear. Just because you can measure it doesn't mean you can hear it. Remember these guys are claiming more than just noise with silver cable, it's just audio voodoo like 100 hour break in. The human ear can't hear 0.1% distortion much less 0.01%.
Braid plain old stranded wire together and you'll get the same thing if you're worried about LF noise. Move those plain cables apart a foot and you'll get the same thing as Kimber or any other expensive cable.
The premise is that attentively listening to music on high price tag equipment causes your hearing sensitivity to exceed thresholds long established by psychoacoustics. The fact that this very music was recorded and mixed using dozens of metres of Mogami and a bunch of NE5532s does not seem to matter either.
@@paulb4661 Well said!
Thanks for the great feedback! I'm actually still impressed with my homemade interconnect using the 18AWG speaker wire;)
@paulb4661 So true - there is so much to overlook to focus on the magic;)
@@paulb4661 Even the tiniest amount of compression ( 2:1 at -10dBm) will have broadband IMD noise floor above minus 70dBc. Find me a recording without compression... and then we can get worried about silly wires!
Hi Eddie!
Watching your late videos makes me understand how my boss feels when he’s making a visit to my office, telling me to tidy up my desk. I think it’s time for both of us to clear up some space :P
My fear is that the wall of equipment may fall on Eddie if there's any kind of seismic disturbance in the area. I think he's in California. I like to keep a fairly clear desk. The more clutter the closer I get to working at the edge, the more things keep falling on the floor which drives me bonkers.
@@fredflintstone8048 So true!
BUT sometimes persistence can be bliss. I’m moving into a bigger office as management understood the current one is too small. True story
LOL - I do want to organize my bench soon;) Need to sell some equipment;)
It was always the 60Hz stuff in the low level RCA i was worried about, and just a good cable 5-10 dollar 3-foot cable can do just that 90% of the time for me lol. Great video.
Thanks so much!!
Best thing about burning in tables is you get to play with the Tesla coil. Tesla coils are great fun at parties.
Very true! Great point!
Please test a braided cable, put a pure copper double sided conductivity tape around the cable and then ground this foil. It should have the very best results and this pure copper conductive on BOTH side tape is cheap on Amazon... I do this and sonically this foil grounded on a kimber is incredible. Please test!!
Thanks for this idea. This is the type of testing that we do in an EMI chamber when we are trying to get rid of noise.
@@KissAnalog absolutely! And make sure to ground the copper foil to an independent ground, don't use audio ground. Ideally your system is all hooked up with dedicated home runs to a star ground point out to a dedicated ground rod, but to start use a dedicated lead to a dedicated non auido related ground :)
RG-400 is primarily used for its low loss.
Thank you!
RG-400 is what I am using for the antennas in my homebuilt airplane. This is a common cable in the aviation world.
Wow - thanks for that!
Hi Eddie, great video thank you. I wonder if you would measure less or more 60Hz noise if you use an open ended power cable (your red power cable at the resistor is disconnected).
Cheers!
Great question. An open ended cable (or unloaded) would not do anything as there would be no magnetic or electric field (without current flowing). Great question though!!
@@KissAnalog ua-cam.com/video/0bAUS1PmEBo/v-deo.htmlsi=S8TF0TlGO8-2GYsY
So youre telling me not to wrap my interconnects around my power cable?
LOL - ...but if you want to - let us know if you can hear a difference;)
@@KissAnalog I've been a mechanic for 20 years. I'm shocked my hearing is as good as it is
@@KissAnalog but I am glad that you finally found a way to show the differences in cables. And it only took you wrapping the literal mains cord with an interconnect. Which to be honest some of my setups might look like that. But aesthetics does not my strong suit. That being said squeezing out . 002% might be worth that $40,000 cable. I would know I'd rather put it towards my mortgage!
Would be interesting to try a length of star quad cable. It's a twisted four wire core with a braided screen, it's for making balanced connections with xlrs really but I have used it with xlrs, and rca unbalanced connectors. Would it give the benefits of both the coax and twisted wires all in one?
Also the QA403 can do balanced measurements so you could try something with that too.
Eddie, RG-400 is a double braided 50 ohm coax cable. The aptures in the braided are very small and the weave angle is less than 30 degrees. Thanks for the video.
For a second there, I thought you said HOAX cable…
Thanks for that great info!
Hi Eddie, why does the FFT measurements jumps sometimes arround?Is it a refresh?thx
Great question. The equipment puts out a signal and takes a measurement, and then it refreshes and repeats.
I make my own cables. I use mic cable and good quality ends. The mic cable is twisted pair and a shield. I use the shield on the return.
Thanks for this feedback! I have used mic cable in the lab before;) Try attaching the shield on just one end - experiment on which end...
HP became Agilent became Keysight... so it's all and only Keysight now, for test gear. The Agilent spin off from HP still exists; but they do life science stuff... like chromatography., electrophoresis et. al.
Thanks for this great feedback! I realized I said Agilent when I was editing;)
If at same volume class A vs AB vs D will there be a sound difference in sound signature?
This is a fantastic question! I'll investigate this;)
Check out Vintage Audio Review blind test comparison performed on a bunch of well seasoned listeners. Ayima vs Marantz tube amp.
I wonder about using twisted pair Ethernet cable, much higher frequency but tight twists??
Thanks for the interesting idea! I'd think that they would be interesting to measure;)
You could use 100 feet of cheap cat 5; wire his AC dimmer on three pairs and the audio signal on the 4th pair and get similar or better results. Really depends on the CMRR of the audio transmitter and receiver ( resistor match in balanced line drivers/receivers).
QA403 shines again!
Yes it does;) Thanks!
I think the word you were looking for is "Masking". One sound can mask the other sounds.
That's it! Thank you!!
1:04. Do You Read Your Coments. I've been saying 5 times you have to use a 70s pioneer receiver. To test for noise. All class d amp cancel or filter out noise. So YA Can't Use A CLASS D Amp
Thanks for your feedback - and yes I do read my comments - but I don't think you read my reply to your last few comments.
Amplifiers amplify signals in the audio band - they don't filter them - or shouldn't. This includes Class D. So, the signals that I am measuring are in the audio band.
you didn't relocate the black wire....
Thanks for your feedback - but I'm not sure what you mean. I tried to place the black wire on across the top of the amp each time - just to keep it in the same place. I did move it around - and as long as it wasn't right next to the red wire it didn't make a difference. The wires have to be close to couple/cancel the fields.
@@KissAnalog nice to see a definative study
I will also tell you any mV is audible on a very high end system I can represent this time after time. I made custom ground filters and star grounding to get my systems star ground down to 0.5mV ac and 0mv DC on the scope. Getting the ac noise down is the key and the system between 100 and even 10mv ac at 60hz down to 0.5mV at 60hz ac is VERY noticeable.
yeah right 😑
@@davidlong1786 it's a good thing we don't prescribe drugs purely on our hypothesis.
Home audio manufacturers are notoriously bad at 2 wire single ended inputs and outputs; signal = chassis = AC earth ground. Utterly stupid design! Pro audio is 2 wire balanced (or 3 wire shielded) and is >60dB quieter at line frequencies by design.
Thanks for the feedback! So 10 mV is only 40 dB down from 1 V, but the noise that we are seeing is much lower than this.
@jim9930 That's a great point - and it is interesting how things haven't changed - or at least not much.
22:12. Gesundheit.
Thank you!!
And why should I believe you? You with all of your measuring devices and science? When I could instead believe in magical slipstream quantum foam stickers from synergistic research?
The amount of BS they invent each year is astounding and sad that people buy that crap. I used to give them hell on the Stereophile forums back when they allowed outsiders to comment. I made them and Stereophile so angry that they started asking me if I subscribed to their magazine and when I said I didn't then they wouldn't allow me to comment. 🤣 I probably really hurt Synergistic Research's profits over the months that I pointed out their BS for others to see. Atkinson and Serinus are responsible for many spending money foolishly with their out right lies.
LOL - Thanks!!
@davidlong1786 I've had people ask me why I care and they say I should let people spend their money where they want to. But I want to save the others - who are not 'believers' and want to actually know if cables make a difference.
You are still talking and understanding nothing like when you tested power cables, there is nothing new in what you demonstrate and it has nothing to do with the sound differences experienced on cables.
But in a way what you are doing explains the problem.
Measurement can only measure precision, what we can measure is typically something that will irritate our ears THD noise etc on cables these parameters are so far down that no human can hear it.
The differences heard on cables can be quite clear, it's about timbre, perceived resolution and soundstage that change from cable to cable, none of it can be measured with anything other than ear and brain, it's still a mystery what happens and not least the source of much discussion among hifi enthusiasts..
The only common denominator I have been able to find is that the different materials have a sound signature, silver sounds different than copper, Teflon sounds different than PVC etc. These perceived sound differences work independently of known electronics theory, so it's easy to say that it must be a placebo, but it's not as the differences can be detected in blind tests.
Thanks for your interesting feedback.
First point; there is actually something different in what I am demonstrating. I finally found something that is different. I think you are right though - it is too low in amplitude to be heard.
I've shown that the impedance is nearly identical between a number of cables (in and beyond the audio band). Timber is in the audio band - so if the impedance is almost entirely resistive in the audio band - it will behave the same - as my measurements indicate.
There is a solid reason why hifi enthusiasts have not shown proof that they can hear any difference. This would of course be done with a double blind test. They simply can not tell the difference. There was a Million dollars put up challenging a leader in the audio industry - and he would not do it. They could not come to terms - even with 1 Million dollars put up.
@@KissAnalog There's nothing easier than organising a blind test that ends up showing no difference. The problem is that it's not proof that this is the case.
There are so many variables that can be adjusted to get the result you want, the quality of the hifi system, the listeners, music selection just to name a few, the vast majority of people who organise such tests are interested in no sound differences ASR Audioholics as you mention. What is their goal finally? Don't they think that we who believe there are sound differences are aware of the paradox that I described in my previous post. There should be no sound differences. Do you and ASR etc. That we are dumb as holes in the ground, without education etc we are far from reality.
Bruno Putzeys once expressed this paradox in the following way:
‘It shows that people who claim that cables don't make a difference are clearly deluding themselves. On the other hand, those who say that cables shouldn't make a difference are absolutely right.’
On the other hand, a blind test that concludes that there are differences will most likely be proof that this is actually the case, I and many others have participated in such tests and are therefore convinced that there are sound differences, but we do not know why.
Ps what do you mean by cables have identical impedance?
@@torbenkristiansen7732 check out sound and vision speaker cables test from decades ago. Industry related individuals doing their best under the condition of anonymity. Their best wasnt good enough to write home about.