“Everyone’s just talking. It’s just four hours, 254 minutes, it’s all exposition, just talking, just talking, talking. It’s all exposition, nothing happens.”
Noodles trying to argue that recoil damage is the same as getting hit with the rasenshuriken is the most embarrassing and bad faith points I've ever heard from a debater
Noodles is the king of semantics. Debating skills very weak but his ability to change the argument and deflect from his previous statements is top tier
@@TheBillhsum, no? In general, good debating skill represent many good qualities of a person. But depending on the debate topic, you start to wonder if all that "yapping" is worth the time and effort
@@e.n.v.y all debating represents is having a small tool,it's about getting one over another person to feel good about yourself and not to find the objective truth
@@TheBillhs you haven't been in enough healthy debate to not recognize the goods that can come from having one. Besides, discovering truths isn't the sole purpose of a debate (like there's more to this shi)
My biggest issue with Noodles as a debater is he is incredibly bad faith and disingenuous. Anytime a statement in his favor comes up its suddenly "Its right and you cant deny that" then every time a statement is made by his opponent its "CAN YOU PROVE IT??? FAKE NOT TRUE UNPROVEN, SPECULATION" Bro, this is fucking fiction, you could literally say EVERYTHING is speculation. Seeing Noodles debate isnt fun because he isnt willing to engage in a good faith argument with anyone. He keeps back peddling everytime he makes a point on an argument he tried to debunk an hour ago. Swag at least came in with a good faith argument, willing to concede on certain issues. Id love to see more of these debates but not with someone like Noodles who just engages in bad faith arguments acts like a cocky prick the whole time.
@@josephbooker259 but that's the whole point even swagkage knows this and acts like this it shldnt have been surprising once this livestream got released more to the casual community you all wld react like this i don't blame u but it rlly isn't that deep
Noodles literally pulled out every dirty underhanded tactic in the book, along with a few brainless attempts that i'd never witnessed ANYONE being delusional enough to argue unironically. Swag, you're the winner, hands down, you put their mans down 💯
@@borger260 Listen, I understand that's what happened on the page, but you have to understand outliers exist and child konohamaru being relative in speed to the sannin is not consistent, taking one outlier feat as a consistent scaling isn't how you powerscale
Yeah it just sounds like he's not being honest in this debate, it's like he's arguing for the sake of arguing rather then trying to prove anything. I really hope he doesn't believe in the things he says in this debate, if he does that is pretty sad.
It's called liking swag more than the truth. Swag throughout assumptions and pretended like he was right. All noodles did was go through the debate. In the damn chapter were shown what Naruto was surprised by. The fact the preta path was alive.
Swag was kinda ratting and you could tell he didnt really know what to debate about for pain since itachi is usually someone he vouches for. Noodles really washed him this time around by using some of his own arguments against him from prior videos swag has and (in general) scaling.
@@marzman4 Swag was struggling against Noodles not because his arguments were being debunked but because Noodles, throughout the entire video: 1. Would hardly ever let Swag finish an argument, 2. Misinterpret Swag’s arguments and then gaslight Swag by saying he said something he didn’t, 3. Was just plain rude and disgusting in the way he talked, 4. Constantly deflect arguments, but then claim Swag deflects arguments when he’s trying to provide a broader context to give an appropriate answer, 5. Noodles uses no-limit fallacy for Itachi this entire video, trying to argue that Itachi has more uses of Amaterasu than what they previously established, Itachi’s somehow light speed, yata mirror somehow scales to TSO’s, etc, 6. Directly contradicts himself only to try and contradict Swag, ex. Everything involving the rasenshuriken recoil and Sage Naruto’s durability, 7. Would constantly deny any statement made by Swag, calling it an assumption and that it’s baseless, while constantly making assumptions and statements and claiming it’s irrefutable. There’s many, many more, this debate is actually painful to listen to, it makes me mad just listening to Noodles, it’s no wonder Swag was getting irritated and started doing some of the same tactics.
The fact that swag had to ask noodles if konohamaru would jump over the rasenshuriken is mind blowing😭 Edit: that recoil argument over the rasenshuriken has to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard from noodles
I can't decide if it's that one or him saying of a quote on panel "well we don't know if Kishimoto wrote those words specifically so they don't count as a counter to an argument I'm also making with words on panel"
In regards to the speed of rasenshuriken. Could just say along side it’s blast radius and proximity between Naruto and pain would just be sufficient enough in the event that the rasenshuriken is massively slower than Naruto.
@theredriver2070 ya this noodle guy is kinda slow 😂 took 30 min for him to understand that getting hit with a attack and getting hit by the recoil of the attack are 2 different things
For the whole recoil argument. I’m convinced that Noodles was arguing for the sake of arguing because Swags argument isn’t that hard to grasp or comprehend
Thats kinda noodles' whole thing, arguing semantics for the sake of arguing and demanding confirmation for every little point, meanwhile he just spit balls blatant headcanon and speculation
@@ThePhantomRiskwhich is why it’s autistic. Like if you talk to someone like that, you can never get to the truth of the disagreement. Then it just becomes pointless. Unless you watch debates just to hear people yap
He does hold his own arguments to that standard though. He’s clarified before that making assumptions are ok, it’s making baseless assumptions he has an issue with.
@@gabrielsalahi3656 Well for him a baseless assumption is an assumption that isn’t the only one that has to be made, or when your pulling it out of your head. What makes an allowed assumption is an assumption backed with real world understanding. For example if we have two drawings that look like humans an assumption noodles would not be okay with is if you said “one of the humans has rubber for a skeleton”, an assumption he would be okay with instead would be “since they look like humans they should have brains therefore hitting them in the head is a weak spot”. So long as your assumption is based on real world knowledge as well as being the most likely or evident interpretation he will be ok with the assumption.
Noodles is the type of guy who says that Kakuzu would beat Okina Matara in a battle because Kakuzu has that raw durability while Okina is a God of Disability and is on a chair or a wheelchair
I swear, I feel bad for Swagkage here, he's getting so confused by how illogical his opponent is that he starts losing track of his own argument because he's actually trying to keep track of the arguments and make sense of things. Noodles never gets confused because he's not trying to make sense. He just says the next thing that comes to his mind that sounds like it might make sense. Noodles head canon vs Swagkage logical inference and deduction.
I can feel my blood pressure slowly rising every minute I listen to this. Mad respect to both participants and moderators for actually enduring this for 4 whole hours when they had the option to simply stop at any point. In solidarity, I will also sit through this whole thing. I would love to do one of these debates, but I’m not nearly cutthroat enough for it. I’d accept way too many things in goodwill for the sake of having a fun discussion. I’d get slaughtered lol.
@@shoto4520 Yeah I was exaggerating a bit lol. I think it is intended for the late middle school / early high school age bracket, right? I started reading it in middle school anyway
Noodles 100% needs to take a chill pill and apply Occum’s Razor to like 90% of the arguments he makes. I am an hour into this and I feel like a timer needs to be set. Noodles doesn’t let Swag get a point across while repeatedly straw manning him. This is just dishonest Edit: I’m around 2:47:00. I cannot understand why Noodles debates like this. There is no possible way he actually thinks that recoil damage from an attack is the same as getting hit with it. Additionally I think they should do their next debates as a formal debate, opening, closing and a QandA section. Noodles is being a child and taking bad faith at every opportunity. Also around 3:03:00 Noodles admits to shotgunning, and Swag calls him out.
“This is the same logic of Sakura scaling to Kaguya because she punches her off guard” that’s literally the same logic noodles was using when he brings up Kono catching pain with a rasengan
broooo it's actually crazy how a good chunk of the debate is so much more unnecessary with this sentence in mind. I'm only an hour in and this rasenshuriken shit has my brain going through lag irl. Good on you for catching that shit.
Man Six that part where Noodles was trying to argue getting hit with Rasenshuriken was the same as using it was stupid. Props to you and Swag for dealing with that shit lmao
Just listened to the ENTIRE THING! I won't spoil it. But my conclusion is Swagkage won. The majority of Swag's statements and debunks were cut and dry. And directly from the manga with the most favored interpretations. While Noodle's statements and debunks were majorly stretches. Like I guess you can interpret it that way but in the long run those points don't hold up and Swag pointed it out. Some of Noodle's points did stick. But not enough to confirm victory. A lot of good points Swag had literally got pushed to the side because Noodle's kept pushing the finish line farther back. Smart tactic but nah Swag took this one
Ill spoil this shit. Noodles is a loser and literally did NOT provide a SINGLE POINT to his argument even tho he had itachi who has 4 one shot abilities
Ill spoil this shit. Noodles is a loser and literally did NOT provide a SINGLE POINT to his argument even tho he had itachi who has 4 one shot abilities
Ill spoil this shit. Noodles is a loser and literally did NOT provide a SINGLE POINT to his argument even tho he had itachi who has 4 one shot abilities
Ill spoil this shit. Noodles is a loser and literally did NOT provide a SINGLE POINT to his argument even tho he had itachi who has 4 one shot abilities
Looking at this again and Noodles really holds Swag's arguments and expectations to an absurd standard while denying what would be direct proof by using semantics. His Konohamaru shenanigans were downright dirty and the argument of the Rasenshuriken being slower than Sage Naruto was terrible.
Noodles: Ninja uses ninjutsu and ninjutsu uses chakra therefore outerversal Konohamaru Swag: That doesn't make any- Noodles: IT'S ESTABLISHED! IT'S ESTABLISHED! IT'S TRUE! meanwhile Swag: Okay so granted that there is a sky with clouds in the Naruto series- Noodles: PROOF! PROOF! PROVE IT! TWELVE STATEMENTS FROM AUTHOR RIGHT NOW TO PROVE IT! GET KISHIMOTO ON THE PHONE TO CONFIRM OR IT'S HEADCANON! It's unreal.
It is possible that him throwing it would be slower than him running with it but I still don't see how you think it's so much slower that konahamaru would be faster than it
Thanks Six for hosting this. Ive listened to the Sakura vs Madara debate with you and Swag vs Kabuki and Afro, and the Pain vs Kakuzu debate with Noodles and Swag, probably dozens of times over the past years. Certain that this is going to provide a lot of entertainment as well. Much appreciated
i feel like it's incredibly disingenuous to say that the rasenshuriken is slower than naruto, the whole act of throwing it would narratively imply that it at least gives him some advantage. if it is worse to throw it then are you saying kishimoto really intended for the rasenshuriken to be best in close quarters? even though for the rest of the series naruto mostly throws it compared to close quarters use.
But isn't the point of the rasenshuriken being thrown that it doesn't start detonating in Naruto's hand? So he doesn't break his arm everytime he uses it? Not to say whether or not Naruto is faster than his thrown rasenshuriken or not, I am not enough of a powerscaler to give an evidence based opinion on that, but the reason for it being thrown, as far as I know, has nothing to do with its speed.
Kishimoto did intend that funnily enough. The Rasenshuriken was originally supossed to be used like a normal rasengan like Naruto did against Kakuzu. Then Tsunade explained how bad the drawbacks are on Naruto hence why he throws it. I don't think throwing it is slower tho, based on the interaction with the 3rd raikage
I think it does give him does some advantage not throwing it. But he *ALWAYS* throws it so regardless it doesn't matter, Honestly I think it's cause of when Tsunade yells at Naruto and yells at him to never use the jutsu again, then he learns to throw it removing all risk so look Granny you can't yell at me any more
Chibaku Tensei is the ultimate win con here. A non fatigued Pain is suffocating Itachi 100%. Why even argue Pain can’t hold it up for longer? It’s a jutsu and jutsus are chakra based, if he uses a very taxing jutsu (chaotic Shinra tensei) then obviously his chibaku tensei will not last as long. The debate that it won’t be much of a time difference is also bad considering the chakra output of chaotic and the fact that Noodles said that if he were to use chaotic again it will kill Pain.
He can’t hold it up so he’s waisting chakra,itachi can sub out of it or use a clone or izanagi & more but Itachi is stated to be light speed & pain has no light speed feats nor statements & pain has no feat of stopping genjustu so itachi would just blitz him kill him with anything he chooses
@@Kmarks_ You cant simply sub out of the gravitational pull of Chibaku Tensei, and clearly using a clone would be ineffective considering the pull tends to be universal to all objects in range. Edo Itachi himself doesnt attempt either of these techniques to escape Chibaku Tensei in the first place. Itachi's never been blatantly stated to have been light speed, although I personally believe he scales close to lightspeed in terms of feats. Although depending on the paths I dont see him blitzing all the Paths of pain in a single go. Especially if he's using susanoo.
@@nirjhar4803 itachi had plenty of ways dealing with the CT,but like I said he can use izanagi & pain didn’t know Naruto shadow clones from the original so Itachi could use that but pain is slower wen all 6 are up, if konohamaru can react to a pain itachi is blitzing them Pain has no feats on stopping genjustu so there’s that,edo itachi is even faster he’s protecting sasuke & holding back on kabuto who was bout to no diff sasuke til itachi saved him,ems sasuke & kcm1 was relative in speed & ap…Itachi is faster & stronger than ems so no itachi is far above light speed.
Noodles is so scummy with his arguments and when swag tries to call him out or play just like noodles, he just deflects the arguments or calls swag out on being underhanded.
Before naruto killed tendo with a regular rasengan, Tendo thinks to himself it’s fine he can’t throw that one. Does that not imply rasenshuriken is faster than naruto.
It would be cool if kishimoto would do chapters of fan fight matchups. Just to see how the author would do it too. I think kishi would go absolutely wild with this fight
@@LuciferArc1 has that ever happened before? Studio Pierrot and Kishimoto’s editors are so goddamn greedy yet they don’t get the quantity they’d get from these what if fights
Bro noodles is so disingenuous, the all ninjutsu argument, the konohamaru stuff, the failed debunk on pushing pains out the way and I’m only an hour and 30 mins in.
I wanna target the Rasinshuriken point lol homie really saying that throwing it is slower 🤦🏽♂️ if anything it’s most definitely faster! Take anything solid that you’ve ever thrown in your life…that object will move faster from point a to point b then YOU can if you decided to run with it from point a to point b 😂 that’s just a basic fact of life. Bro logic really left the chat with that one (and some others 😅)
@@Wyrm7774 And doesn't require you to put yourself at risk of damage. Also in Rasenshuriken's case, because they literally stated prior after the Kakuzu fight that it has negative side effects to the point where the Goddess of Medical Ninjutsu deemed it a Kinjutsu/Forbidden Jutsu. So it's potentially harmful to the user to use it up close rather than throwing it.
No I know where noodles is coming from I was actually hoping I could jump in just to defend him and I like swagkage better. What I would have said in noodles defense is a bullet proof vest is stated to stop bullets. But we all know it doesn't stop ALL bullets. So same logic can be applied. Not saying noodles is right but when you and swag came for his explanation that unless expressly stated that all of something is blocked by an entity rather than a blanket statement such as that something is blocked by an entity than you could argue the statement might not mean all
This mf noodles is unbearable "prove the statement in the data book is true" "prove the statement in the manga was written by the author" oh my God bro
Noodles did nothing to make me ACTUALLY believe Itachi wins here... he just pushed debate bro nonsense. Noodles is all like "here's a claim I won't firmly establish now prove I'm wrong"... instead of him laying down a fondation and showing he's right he just gives Swag a claim he can't refute because Swag obviously isn't trained to deal with debate bro shit and doesn't have live calcs... then at the 3+ hour point Swag was giving up ponts just to finish because lulz 4 hour debate lol... even if Noodles "technically" won on scoring because points he still loses the actual debate... So you might be like isn't that the point? Swag "lost" because he's worse at debating right? No... no because Rocky 1 exists... Noodles is a debate bro! Imagine me some guy off the street fight prime Tyson and he has to hit me once then run the clock for his dub? I'm the hero at the end in this situation because why didn't you just ko me? Why are you the accomplished fighter using dirty underhanded tactics to win? Noodles boxed Swag for like 45 mins then just went aggressive debate virgin for 3 hours after that... Swag had to stop like a dozen times like bro you asked me a question let me actually respond to it... so... you win Noodles I guess 🙄 but Swag is by far the hero here and it has nothing to do with audience size that's a cope. This debate was Rocky 1. As the ref announced "Noodles wins!" The audience sadly didn't hear it because... we were too busy cheering for Swag and that's 100% on Noodles for that.
Noodles did not win this debate imo swag refuted the points that mattered and noodles scales contradict them selves which swag pointed out of the judges gave it to noodle they were wrong again this is just my opinion
Swagkage debates more fairly. I don't know the other dude but the way he was debating was mad annoying. Bro was trying to push his agenda and argument way too much.
"More fairly" prohibites any canon fact about itachi except blind and dead itschi version vs sasuke. Noodles is a cloen but swagkages is an bad debater. He literally dven lost to noodles
@QuitTheDownplay there is a difference between debating and cutting someone's argument off to push your agenda. If you're going to cut someone off because you don't even wanna factor in a counterpoint, then there is no point debating.
@QuitTheDownplay i quit listening after 20 mins. I do got a bit of bias because I've heard Swag debate before. The other dude came off unlikeablein my opinion within the first 10 mins. 🤷🏾♂️ he was trying too hard.
9:47 this is already such a bad faith argument. to say that it doesn't matter that nagato wasnt expecting itachi to attack him is delusional. i legit cant believe anyone would even try to argue that. so if thats the logic then does danzo scale to shisui? does black zetsu scale to 3 eyed juubidara? sakura scale to kaguya? does himawari scale to hokage naruto? they must since it doesnt matter if youre ready or not
@fr lol and it’s not like there isn’t a dead give away it’s coming like his ms activation and blood coming out of his eyes. Mfer literally winks when he uses it 😂
What’s the point of a debate if dude won’t let swag talk? Also noodle keep calling swag out for assuming everything meanwhile he himself has nothing but assumptions.
This debate could have been over in 5 minutes if Swag just asked what Itachi is doing against Chibaku Tensei. Unless Noodles breaks out the RAW DURABILITY argument for SICK ITACHI the argument ends there.
Can we please get a Six v Swag / Itachi v Nagato debate? I feel like that should’ve been a thing already and it’d be much more constructive and entertaining than this
@@thegreatkabukino6639 i think so too and i think they both agreed edo itachi wins. i agree with that too but sick itachi vs pain is a wash imo. itachi would need prep time and an off guard pain for a shot and might still not have the juice to get it done imo
2 hours in might need to pause for now, but dirty tactitcs on both sides, however so far at the very least swag is the lesser offender. If you use the opponents claim to support your own arguement you have to concede your stance, noodles does not do this, instead he uses swags claims when it benefits him while still standing by his own which doesnt make any sense. Swag not giving early shippuden itachi the mirror and blade seems dirty, but its not unwarranted considering how noodles is going about the debate so far Edit: the more I watch the rattier and worse noodles points get 💀
I have finally finished this video, and I gotta say, swag could've talked about the 2 other instances where naruto chose to throw the rasenshuriken at madara, instead of trying to melee him with it. The moment that takes the cake for me, is noodles arguing that konohamaru can take pain off guard lol
Noodles' debating style is unironically comedic, swag bringing up solid counterpoints and noodles going "this isn't true, and even if it was this doesn't apply/this isn't the case." At one point also getting riled up, with six telling them to relax and take a breather, Noodles then responding to six telling him he's not going to let swag move on from this (his pointing out what he believed to be an inconsistency in swag's argument) then leading to swag proving him completely wrong and his deflection being "but let's move on from this point, what is it that you wanted to say about chibaku tensei."
Also, just to point out. Noodle accidentally proved Naruto characters aren't light speed. If they were, the 5 second delay between shinra tensei would be made trivial. There are plenty of panels showing an attack closing in on Pain with a count down. Light speed travels the planet in one second by the way.
1:22:36 It’s 3 AM so… uh… here’s the difference as I see it. A Jinchuriki Transformation and Ninjutsu differ in the molding of Chakra. Ninjutsu functions by applying transformation to one’s chakra, altering it and funneling that energy into a specified effect. Jinchuriki forms directly apply chakra to the body to enhance and protect it. The best comparison is how Cursed Energy works. Jinchuriki forms are akin to raw CE Reinforcement and Output, while Ninjutsu and Genjutsu are Cursed Techniques, funneling Chakra into a more usable form. That being said, Shinra Tensei dispels ninjutsu through brute, repulsive force. It’s just raw power dismantling the makeup of a Jutsu.
This debate was kinda ass overall. It was basically 4 hours of semantics. Few solid points were allowed to be made, and very little was actually gone over. It's sad because this stuff can be interesting to discuss or listen to, but they kept hanging up on the most asinine or ridiculous bullshit.
Dude, Noodles is kinda unbearable here. comparing Konahamaru to pain and saying all the paths of Pain are equal in speed... THEN he brings up the expanding Rasen shuriken panel which proves that they all aren't the same speed. because one of them had to be saved while the others were jumping away. It hurts my ears hearing him worm around this debate. Lol
This is how I know Swagkage is secretly a masochist. No man or woman that values his or her safety and health would willingly wanna have a prolonged conversation with Noodles. Let alone a debate for 4 hours. Having to sit through that long period of time of the man’s mindless yammering and yapping is enough to drive you insane.💀
I've never in my life seen someone talk someone into answering a specific way. Thats not debating. Noodles literally talks to hear his own voice. Dude says Mangekyo is the strongest dojutsu. Dude doesnt undedstand what recoil means. 🗑
@@ZaharJudah bruh after hitting rasenshuriken the enemy gets blown anyway but naruto back then still took damage from the recoil of blasting rasenshuriken this ain't even a debate kinda using a little brain could literally make u realize that landing rasenshuriken and recoil of it isn't even close to equal
Not defending Noodles here by any means. His debate tactics are terrible and disingenuous but there is plausibility to that theory. We know the Byakugan has a blind spot and it's an assumption to say Kaguya wouldn't have one just because she's an Otsutsuki. Saying that though the blind spot is incredibly small, smaller than Sakura. It took Kidomaru weaving an incredibly small arrow with perfect precision to take advantage of the blind spot on Neji. For Sakura to remain in the blind spot she'd have to do the same only with her entire person which is a lot bigger than the arrow. So while plausible it isn't very likely. To add to this she should also be able to sense Sakura being there as she has all the same sensing capabilities Naruto has, seeing as those abilities originally came from Kaguya so its not really an argument. Even if Kaguya couldn't see her she could definitely sense her. What makes it worse is it's Noodles job to know this stuff. I'm just a regular guy that likes Naruto and even I know this stuff. Kind of embarrassing on Noodles part
@@adamdonovan7269was so weird cause our brain literally can completely block certain things we see out as we’re currently seeing them just because it’s not relevant information to our brains or just to fill a gap so to speak
Im sorry, I know this is 4 months old and no one will see this comment but the recoil argument REALLY upset me, the fact that noodles would just not understand or comprehend how recoil damage works is so dumb - NARUTO LITERALLY HAS RECOIL DAMAGE = the gates have recoil effect - just as guy trains his body to be able to hand the recoil of gate 6 without any draw backs to is health is the exact same as naruto in sage mode not taking recoil damage because his body is stronger. that was SUPER disingenuous
I see you. And you're absolutely right. Swag's 50 Cal Analogy was on point. There's a difference between "tanking" the recoil from the shot, and tanking a bullet to the chest, a difference Noodles can't seem to grasp.
29:43 for some reason swag just going "of course i play call of duty" caught me so off guard it had me dead 1:40:00 bro thinks hes in ace attorney 1:56:45 schrodinger's rasensuriken also since we spent so much time on whether or not the rasenshuriken scales to naruto or not, imma say it. it does scale. naruto is throwing the rasenshuriken with his physical strength given to him by sage mode. the same strength that let him throw the animal path's giant summons. so it scales to his strength 2:13:40 itachi is the only user of the jutsu and the databook says the jutsu is light speed. according to noodles' own logic, the jutsu does not scale to the user. even if itachi is holding back, the jutsu is light speed. plus there's no evidence to suggest that the jutsu specifically is nerfed. 2:18:52 SHIT HAD ME ROLLING. noodles is trolling so hard 3:25:10 bro REALLY think he in ace attorney with that von karma ass behavior 3:54:18 VON KARMA, NO! finally finished and bro i gotta say: noodles got COOKED. though i gotta say swag was real frickin slimy forcing noodles to use uchiha hideout itachi last second on a technicality. i dont feel bad for noodles tho cause noodles was being wayyyy too pushy and demanding more evidence than an actual frickin court. evidence doesnt always prove something definitively, many things are up to interpretation and guesswork, and bro was not open to discussing interpretation at all. he shut down any conversation about interpretation off-rip by saying it wasnt definitive, and that led to a debate that went in circles and got nowhere.
Noodles would consistently shut down every single thing Swag would say that was even remotely up to interpretation and say it’s an assumption. Hell, even some straight up factual statements were dismissed by him cause it didn’t fit his narrative. Meanwhile, the entire debate he constantly makes assumption after assumption, extrapolation after extrapolation to the point where’s he’s literally snow balling his arguments in a way that just completely dismisses every single valid point Swag had. Noodles assumptions take priority over Swag’s assumptions apparently cause he obviously has a tiny ass ego and has to resort to literally gaslighting Swag that he said things he didn’t say 💀. Actually unbelievable the way Noodles was talking to him at some points, should never be allowed to speak on Naruto ever again.
Noodles would consistently shut down every single thing Swag would say that was even remotely up to interpretation and say it’s an assumption. Hell, even some straight up factual statements were dismissed by him cause it didn’t fit his narrative. Meanwhile, the entire debate he constantly makes assumption after assumption, extrapolation after extrapolation to the point where’s he’s literally snow balling his arguments in a way that just completely dismisses every single valid point Swag had. Noodles assumptions take priority over Swag’s assumptions apparently cause he obviously has a tiny ass ego and has to resort to literally gaslighting Swag that he said things he didn’t say 💀. Actually unbelievable the way Noodles was talking to him at some points, should never be allowed to speak on Naruto ever again.
3:49:01 sasuke literally told naruto they could put his rinnegan in kakashi’s eye and undo the infinite tsukuyomi noodles is just yapping at this point
I like how swag argued rasenshruiken is around narutos speed and the other guy twisted it into swag saying “no reason to throw it” when swag only said that “if its not relative why would he throw it”. He twisted swags argument to work in his favor.
Especially since he tries to use the same sort of "editor statement" to suggest that Itachi is the strongest akatsuki member and that he's "hiding in the bushes looking for Naruto." It's pretty hypocritical.
Itachi vs Pain 1. Itachi, Naruto & Bee Vs Nagato (controlled by Kabuto) There's a huge difference. Kabuto almost forgot about Chibaku. The real Nagato wouldn't have just stood there like a puppet. Nagato has sensory to spot Kabuto for Itachi to find. He'll easily spot Itachi nearby. Plus, Itachi had to remind Kabuto that Nagato had sensory. Itachi was finished when Nagato casted Chibaku (Planetary Devastation). The real Nagato wouldn't allow Itachi's Totsuka blade to reach the core too. 2. Naruto vs Pain = Pain (after Konoha destroyed) - Jiraiya's info - Prep time with 2 Sage clones - Needed help from Frog Sage to reverse summon Naruto's clones - Tsunade's slug advising Naruto, maybe healing too - Pain almost made Naruto lose hope when he pinned him down until Hinata SUPER triggered him. - Minato had to reseal for Naruto, and rebuild his confidence. - Naruto gained Sage mode after being saved by Minato. - Naruto fought drained Pain after destroying the whole damn village! - On top of all of this, Pain never attacked Naruto with the intention to kill. Naruto attacked purely to kill. Naruto would've been SUPER dead if it was truly 1 vs 1. They both were taught by Jiraiya, and came from the Uzumaki clan. Pain, "You and I are sibling disciples. As students of the same master, we ought to be able to understand one another." (A joke with truth) 3. Itachi Vs Pain = Pain Ultimately, it'll come down to who has more chakra, Nagato. Pain is too much of a powerhouse for Itachi to last. Itachi is finished once his Susano'o is gone, assuming he's nearly or is out of chakra. Think about how well Nagato was able to control the Six Paths simultaneously. Even Pain's puppet uses advanced technologies greater than ours, like lasers and homing missiles. Amaterasu will do absolutely nothing because it'll get absorbed or pulled off immediately! Not to mention, Amaterasu could get absorbed with a scroll, like how Jiraiya did after Itachi and Kisame ran away from Jiraiya's jutsu. I'm sure Jiraiya taught him about it. Raikage dodged Amaterasu against Sasuke, which means it's not as fast as Sasuke's Kirin (lightning). Gaara easily pulled out Madara out of his Susano'o. That means Itachi won't be perfectly guarded. Maybe Pain could pull him out because when he pulls, I don't think anything must enter Susano'o to grab Itachi, however, a push seems different. If Itachi's Totsuka blade can't reach the core of Pain's Chibaku, then he'll get trapped inside along with Susano'o. Susano'o won't be able to move. Visual genjutsu doesn't work on Rinnegan. (Proof): Naruto chapter 677 page 9 aka page 678. Infinite Tsukuyomi does not work on three things that were stated in the manga; Perfect Susano'o, Rinnegan and the reanimated (undead). Black Zetsu, "The light can't penetrate that Susano'o? His Rinnegan can deter even this jutsu?" This means not even the Infinite Tsukuyomi can work on Perfect Susano'o and Rinnegan. Also, Itachi's Mangekyo Sharingan is TWO LEVELS BEHIND Rinnegan, while the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan is one level behind. Rinnegan requires Uchiha and Senju blood to activate. It is extremely rare and powerful. Why would the author make Rinnegan so LEGENDARY? The story made it clear that it was more powerful than any eye, including Mangekyō Sharingan. All that legendary talk for what? The author, Masashi Kishimoto, stated that Pain is the strongest Akatsuki. "The strongest man in Akatsuki heads for Naruto." Some people try to curve this by stating the time when Itachi gave Naruto his power, but obviously, it was referring to Pain because he was FINALLY being revealed. The author wouldn't ruin the hype by stating, "Oh, I was referring to Itachi" because it would stop the exciting momentum. It wouldn't follow the flow. Here's another question. Why didn't Itachi use Tsukuyomi right after Nagato casted Chibaku (Planetary Devastation), nor at all? Itachi knew he had infinite chakra too. He could've disabled Nagato so easily with it. Itachi probably knew that it wouldn't have worked against Rinnegan. If he wasn't sure then he would've at least tested it out because it's better than risking death or being captured. Itachi used Amaterasu multiple times, but he wouldn't even use Tsukuyomi once? It's because he never used it that answers the question about Rinnegan able to block all visual genjutsu, including Tsukuyomi. Kakashi never put Rinnegan-Obito under genjutsu. Only one person can put the other person in genjutsu at a time, not both at a time. You can't have Obito put Kakashi in genjutsu WHILE Kakashi put Obito in genjutsu. It's one at a time. Obito was in CONTROL of Kakashi during that whole fight. It was all by HIS design to have Kakashi destroy his heart that Madara implanted. There are so many ways this fight can last long. Pain will keep reviving. Itachi will have a tough time catching him. Nagato, aka 7th Pain, can summon the Gedo Statue that's even bigger than Choji and his dad. Even they needed help. If used right, it can hurt a lot. Itachi's Yata Mirror is strong, but it doesn't cover everywhere. Susano'o can only handle so much against multiple attacks simultaneously. There are ways for Pain to grab Susanoo's arm that's holding the Totsuka blade, like his lizard's tongue or other animals biting it. Pain could even absorb away the Susano'o because Susano'o is chakra construct. Pain could use his Almighty Push hidden under the ground to blow away Susano'o while Itachi is being distracted fighting others. We all saw how much Itachi lost chakra each time he used his eye powers. Eventually, Itachi will deplete all his chakra. Pain will rip out Itachi's soul with one touch while the others attack (not all 6). Itachi can never waste his chakra against Pain. Nagato is from the Uzumaki clan, which carries the most chakra. If this fight drags, it'll come down to who has more chakra. Pain wins. (6 Pains) Itachi's two eyes versus 6 Pains + 7th Pain with All Powers. Izanagi will be useless against Chibaku because he'll just get pulled up again. It won't matter how long his Izanagi lasts. I doubt Izanagi and Izanami link all the Pains. Itachi might have to fight blind against the 7th Pain. And that's IF Itachi could figure out how to kill him without chakra. Either way, one touch is all Nagato will need to rip out Itachi's soul. Pull + Rip = dead. Or another Chibaku (Planetary Devastation) while hidden and ready to absorb powers. I understand Itachi is extremely intelligent and powerful, but Pain is just too much of a powerhouse for Itachi. Even ChatGPT stated that Pain would win (just for humor about ChatGPT, but it's true that ChatGPT stated that Pain would win).
This is a great post. Just thought I’d share my thoughts in reply. 1. Agreed overall, good points about Kabuto’s control, Nagato’s sensory, etc. Disagree, though, about the Chibaku Tensei. Potentially, Itachi could have blown it up by using multiple Yasaka Magatama, or potentially cutting through the rocks - I think it’s debatable. 2. Agreed overall. I don’t think Katsuyu is healing Naruto. Naruto definitely would have lost 1 on 1 against a bloodlusted, non-fatigued pain, for sure. Also worth considering the three frog summons that helped him deal with the animal path and summons, and Ma and Pa using Frog Call to stun some of the summons. Preta path was also able to nullify Sage Mode. For the Itachi vs Pain section: -I’m not sure how to measure if Pain has more chakra than Itachi. Probably, but Itachi turned on the Susano’o when he was near death. If he started the fight fresh with Susano’o, he could last with it for a long time. -Agreed, amaterasu actually has a lot of counters. I’m not sure if Nagato has sealing jutsu like that, but Amaterasu can be dodged, blocked, if it hits a limb/armor you can remove it, etc. I’m not sure if it’s fair to say Gaara easily pulled Madara out of Susano’o, and use that for scaling, since Gaara had a lot of assistance, and Madara was in his incomplete Susano’o, and not taking the fight seriously. -Specifically, Sasuke says his Susano’o blocked the light, which messed with the Tsukuyomi; it’s not quite the same as just blocking it with the rinnegan alone (like Genjutsu Resistance). And remember, this is a six paths enhanced rinnegan, so comparison to other doujutsu is tricky. It’s true that Rinnegan is categorically stronger than Itachi’s Mangekyo - remember, it’s Madara’s EMS, evolved into Rinnegan, transplanted into Nagato. And Nagato is obviously highly skilled with those rinnegan, so he’d have an advantage over Itachi in that regard. -Agreed about the pursuing Naruto thing - the third data book also explicitly says Itachi and Naruto meet by coincidence. Itachi wasn’t looking for Naruto at all. The third data book statements also has statements about Pain being the supreme leader of the Akatsuki who rules through charisma and undeniable strength, with Obito being a behind-the-scenes influence. -Agreed with the Tsukuyomi thing for the most part, however you might also add that the Tsukuyomi just doesn’t work on Edo Tensei summons. Not sure if Itachi knew that at the time, though. But, based on black zetsu’s comments in the Itachi vs. Sasuke fight, as long as Nagato is as skilled with his Rinnegan as Sasuke is with his base sharingan, he should be able to break free from the tsukuyomi. -Did the debaters say that Obito and Kakashi both put each other under genjutsu? I thought it was Obito that used sharingan genjutsu on Kakashi, then Kakashi broke free from it or told Obito to cut it out, and he dropped it. -Pain can keep reviving, but only via the Naraka path, which isn’t instant. Itachi would probably figure this out quickly and kill that path, which isn’t as durable as e.g. Asura, Deva. -Edo Itachi scales to KCM Naruto, so as long as Uchiha Hideout Itachi is vaguely relative in speed, he should be able to catch the paths. -The Gedo Statue also has that soul-stealing dragon ability that should just be able to one-shot Itachi if it can hit (see the Hanzo fight for reference) -I think there are counters to some of the things that you suggested about how to deal with the Susano’o, but I appreciate the way you’re thinking about it as a multi-stage fight where Pain would be attacking from multiple angles simultaneously. I wish the debate had considered more creative situations like this. Let me know what you think!
@@joaquincortescasas8114 I feel you, but sometimes it takes a while to explain stuff in detail. Otherwise you risk oversimplifying or being disingenuous.
@@JonTheMaven I suppose so, considering that making a tldr for 1000+ words is quite challenging. My viewpoint is: Itachi has extremely powerful abilities to challenge almost the entire cast of Naruto besides 10 tails level characters, such as: -Speed and Reflexes on par with both Shisui and KCM1 Naruto -Access to Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Izanagi, Izanami, and Shisui's Kotoamatsukami, all of which can end a fight when they work -Has the most hax Susanoo weapons The issue is that Itachi lacks enough stamina due to his terminal illness that destroyed his chakra reserves. So Nagato will win an attrition war pretty much every time. The only way Itachi can win is using Kotoamatsukami to affect Nagato directly and force him to reveal his real location.
The way i see it is itachi would probably do better than jiraya, he likely takes pain down to tendo similar to naruto, but by that point itachi would be so gassed i doubt he'd have any left, meanwhile pains chakara levels are absolutely obscene, the man can fight an entire village and then the 9 tails and still beat the nine tails. Edo itachi vs edo nagato is itachis best anti nagato feat but i doubt it would have gone the same way if the 6 paths of pain were standing infront of nagato
During the whole throwing speed argument vs pain I'm surprised no one mentioned Naruto used clones to throw himself at pain for that final rasengan. Pain literally says, "he can't throw that jutsu, this distance will keep me safe" then Naruto winds up with his clones and he's like "OH SHIT"
4 hours... 4 hours and there's nothing about the actual like... FIGHT part of the FIGHT. Just semantics and Noodles being like "prove this, prove that, do you know what this means, you're misinterpreting" the second this man started asking the definitions of words I knew we weren't gonna hear anything about hypothetical combat scenarios and would be stuck on points because Noodles can't be wrong ever. Giving up a point (or at the very least moving on before a segment gets to be like 40 minutes long) in a debate isn't the end of the world unless that point is the crutch of your whole stance. I knew from personal experience that bro could not cook if someone brought facts to him, he deflects and calls you stupid if your interpretation is different from his but HOLY SHIT.
This debate was pretty fun for like the first half but then noodles started acting like all his points were canon because he said them and kishimoto himself would need a secondary source to prove anything to him. He was just being so slimy and so ratty with the jutsu scaling or not scaling to the user argument. Then after getting in his feelings because he perceived swag as being “cheeky” with some language because he takes these debates “seriously” he paraded to chat for this brain dead recoil damage rasenshuriken “victory”. Maybe noodles is intelligent but he certainly didn’t display that at all in this one despite knowing the definitions of more junior SAT words than swag.
He's on record saying that he knows more about the series than Kishimoto himself, and that if Kishimoto came over and told him he's wrong, he'd call him a [redacted] and tell him to f off, so. make of that what you will
God hearing noodles tell swag he’s assuming itachi is using the water bullet at full speed is so annoying like how ironic is that. As if he’s not assuming that itachi can adjust the speed of the jutsu even though it’s not implied anywhere
49:32 This is an absolutely correct point. 1:10:52 Point 1:40:37 When you know you lost. Orochimaru has looked for the Totsuka blade for a long time and could never find it. So we can at least already deduce that Itachi has had it for a decent amount of time. 1:56:15 He did argue that it doesn’t scale lmao. Instead of arguing about if it scales in terms of speed they should’ve just shown a time that a raise shuriken was weaker or stronger than another one. 2:38:49 Point 2:47:41 Saying he’s doing that implies that he’s making conscious decisions whereas in the show we see he has no control, or recollection of events. Giving him a conscious perspective around these parts is kinda disingenuous lol. It’s all just assumptions.
Noodles complete lack of willing to actually entertain any arguments in good faith severely hurt the audiences willingness to actually give him the win in this debate
Noodles: Rasen Shuriken is not faster than the Caster, so he wouldnt have to go CQC with Pain! Swagkage: If it isnt faster than the Caster, why would he throw it, if its better to be upclose Noodles: Because he'd take damage Swagkage: He doesnt (proves it with Sage Mode) Noodles: Proof to me, that my statement is wrong, by assuming my statement is right! Noodles: Idc what a potential Editor has to say in a volume Swagkage: But Kishimoto was still narrating everything since it was weekly releases Noodles: Narrator says that Itachi is the strongest Swagkage: Why isnt the other valid then Noodles: Proof to me that my statement is wrong and yours is valid!
no offense but try debating him then lmfao he is not a terrible debater can say some annoying stuff for the sake of debate and winning but doesn't make him a bad vs debater u all in the comments actually losing it lmao nonetheless it was a lot closer than last time could get painful to listen to at points but it was back and forth clearly
@@onizukasensei5321 what are you e to talking about? This is literally my only comment on this video. And also if you think this was a balanced debate then you are wrong. To put it simply, Noodles is a hypocrite, he’ll try to use headcanon for feats and then if you call out that it’s headcanon his rebuttal is “prove that it’s not true then” when he should be proving that it is true. Swag was too nice and trying to be respectful and that was the problem, Noodles kept taking advantage of that. Noodles uses tactics in his debates It’s a tactic used to make the person you’re arguing with backtrack and second guess their points to give yourself the upper hand wether you’re right or wrong in the argument
@@onizukasensei5321noodles is a giant hypocrite. He does not hold himself to the same standard as others. He can say a shit argument and thinks it should slide but would NEVER let that same thing slide for someone else. He is dishonest
@@demontiming3234 how does "you all in the comments" imply that i am saying u made multiple comments i am saying u all as in the hoards of people commenting a similar take to this
@@demontiming3234 "he’ll try to use headcanon for feats and then if you call out that it’s headcanon his rebuttal is “prove that it’s not true then” when he should be proving that it is true." swag literally used headcannon examples too in fact it is far more common for him to do so than noodles why did u even try saying that I can agree he can be hypocritical at points tho but there were points where they were BOTH going back on their points and contradicting themselves. and saying swag is too nice and trying to be respectful was the problem as noodles wld take advantage of that isn't even funny. How did you come up with that. If anything it was much closer to the opposite did you even watch the livestream? Baffled you even attempted to claim that. and i don't see what is wrong with using tactics in a debate. I don't see what is wrong with trying to find inconsistencies in someone's arguments. but to each their own not gonna argue on this again
It’s stated that the rinnegan paths and summonings share vision. To say that Itachi stabbed the eyes of the summonings for any reason other than to get around their shared vision is crazy lol. He deflee did that so Nagato couldn’t see through them.
Honestly I hate this noodle guys. Bro turned itachi vs pain (sick vs battle/debate) into why is the rasenshuriken being thrown. Also, the fact that he can’t even understand the difference between getting HIT BY IT and damage from slamming it against someone with your hand is mind boggling. Other than that the most interesting thing to me was that swagkage broke up w his fiancé and is dating someone else??? Did I hear that right
People will gas up kid sasuke for knowing fire release but give no credit to Konohamaru knowing the 4th hokages A class ninjutsu at around the same age
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Bruh this shit longer than Oppenheimer 😭💀
“Everyone’s just talking. It’s just four hours, 254 minutes, it’s all exposition, just talking, just talking, talking. It’s all exposition, nothing happens.”
so youre the new guy huh?
Longer than the Color Purple
and longer than endgame
Longer then me in bed
Noodles trying to argue that recoil damage is the same as getting hit with the rasenshuriken is the most embarrassing and bad faith points I've ever heard from a debater
Noodles using his raw durability to ignore every valid point
😂🤣
🤣🤣
😭😭😭
😂
@@Kenny-qk9nr I like noodles.
But that comment is funny 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Six the winner of this debate he caught the bag lmao
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Facts bro he on that UA-cam energy.
Is it really a win listening to a literal clown for about 4 hours 😂
@@kgiivmichaelprice5995 when you get the money for it, yes.
Stream party watching this when?
Noodles is the king of semantics. Debating skills very weak but his ability to change the argument and deflect from his previous statements is top tier
That’s basically debate skills in a nutshell
debating itself is nothing impressive either
@@TheBillhsum, no? In general, good debating skill represent many good qualities of a person. But depending on the debate topic, you start to wonder if all that "yapping" is worth the time and effort
@@e.n.v.y all debating represents is having a small tool,it's about getting one over another person to feel good about yourself and not to find the objective truth
@@TheBillhs you haven't been in enough healthy debate to not recognize the goods that can come from having one. Besides, discovering truths isn't the sole purpose of a debate (like there's more to this shi)
Noodles' first arc: Kakuzu is stronger than Pain
Noodles' second arc: Konohamaru is faster than Pain
and he’s not wrong
@@catodela7297 delulu
This mf noodles spittin
LET THE NOODLES COOK!
@@daishimauo7894Did Konohamaru not hit Pain?
Let’s do the community a favor and never let noodles debate ever again
for real bro it was so annoying to see noodles try and rat his way out of a corner then return to the almighty shield of "BUT THATS AN ASSUMPTION"
PLEASE
4 hours of naruto debate is crazy
This is peak humanity
4 hours of debating is light work honestly, some dudes debate for 6 or even 8
Shows their passion
Wholesome
@@panthekirb7561shows their lack of a life
@@elmochomo8218 You do know that they make some decent cash from this right?
My biggest issue with Noodles as a debater is he is incredibly bad faith and disingenuous. Anytime a statement in his favor comes up its suddenly "Its right and you cant deny that" then every time a statement is made by his opponent its "CAN YOU PROVE IT??? FAKE NOT TRUE UNPROVEN, SPECULATION"
Bro, this is fucking fiction, you could literally say EVERYTHING is speculation. Seeing Noodles debate isnt fun because he isnt willing to engage in a good faith argument with anyone. He keeps back peddling everytime he makes a point on an argument he tried to debunk an hour ago. Swag at least came in with a good faith argument, willing to concede on certain issues. Id love to see more of these debates but not with someone like Noodles who just engages in bad faith arguments acts like a cocky prick the whole time.
exactly
This is why people hate debaters. They don't want to come to an understanding, they want to win. It's lame.
I agree Itachi wins but there are better ways to debate than that like I guess it works but it should be fair
@@josephbooker259 but that's the whole point even swagkage knows this and acts like this
it shldnt have been surprising once this livestream got released more to the casual community you all wld react like this
i don't blame u but it rlly isn't that deep
@@AlphaAbyss_deva path preta path and animal path 3v1 itachi dont even get started with throwing the naraka path in there
Noodles literally pulled out every dirty underhanded tactic in the book, along with a few brainless attempts that i'd never witnessed ANYONE being delusional enough to argue unironically. Swag, you're the winner, hands down, you put their mans down 💯
Bro literally argued konohamaru was as fast or faster than a path of pain
@@Tripp247 That's literally what happened on page, that doesn't mean anything.
@@borger260 Listen, I understand that's what happened on the page, but you have to understand outliers exist and child konohamaru being relative in speed to the sannin is not consistent, taking one outlier feat as a consistent scaling isn't how you powerscale
They have noodles the vote win he won
@@Tripp247what are you yapping about inconsistent if that’s what shown it’s what shown why target noodles for something like that 😂
Noodles: What is 2(4+2)?
Well you would begin with what’s inside the parentheses and…
Noodles: Don’t deflect! It’s a yes or no question!
🤣🤣 lmfao
😂😂😂
Noodles would say it’s 10
It's actually painful listening to Noodles debating.
Yeah it just sounds like he's not being honest in this debate, it's like he's arguing for the sake of arguing rather then trying to prove anything. I really hope he doesn't believe in the things he says in this debate, if he does that is pretty sad.
It's called liking swag more than the truth. Swag throughout assumptions and pretended like he was right. All noodles did was go through the debate. In the damn chapter were shown what Naruto was surprised by. The fact the preta path was alive.
@@AMAZIAH "It's called liking swag more than the truth" Brother we just don't like how Noodle debates and sounds, he's awful, there is all to it.
Swag was kinda ratting and you could tell he didnt really know what to debate about for pain since itachi is usually someone he vouches for. Noodles really washed him this time around by using some of his own arguments against him from prior videos swag has and (in general) scaling.
@@marzman4 Swag was struggling against Noodles not because his arguments were being debunked but because Noodles, throughout the entire video: 1. Would hardly ever let Swag finish an argument, 2. Misinterpret Swag’s arguments and then gaslight Swag by saying he said something he didn’t, 3. Was just plain rude and disgusting in the way he talked, 4. Constantly deflect arguments, but then claim Swag deflects arguments when he’s trying to provide a broader context to give an appropriate answer, 5. Noodles uses no-limit fallacy for Itachi this entire video, trying to argue that Itachi has more uses of Amaterasu than what they previously established, Itachi’s somehow light speed, yata mirror somehow scales to TSO’s, etc, 6. Directly contradicts himself only to try and contradict Swag, ex. Everything involving the rasenshuriken recoil and Sage Naruto’s durability, 7. Would constantly deny any statement made by Swag, calling it an assumption and that it’s baseless, while constantly making assumptions and statements and claiming it’s irrefutable. There’s many, many more, this debate is actually painful to listen to, it makes me mad just listening to Noodles, it’s no wonder Swag was getting irritated and started doing some of the same tactics.
The fact that swag had to ask noodles if konohamaru would jump over the rasenshuriken is mind blowing😭
Edit: that recoil argument over the rasenshuriken has to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard from noodles
I can't decide if it's that one or him saying of a quote on panel "well we don't know if Kishimoto wrote those words specifically so they don't count as a counter to an argument I'm also making with words on panel"
In regards to the speed of rasenshuriken. Could just say along side it’s blast radius and proximity between Naruto and pain would just be sufficient enough in the event that the rasenshuriken is massively slower than Naruto.
Bro i just got to it about the recoil argument. My brain wants to die
@theredriver2070 ya this noodle guy is kinda slow 😂 took 30 min for him to understand that getting hit with a attack and getting hit by the recoil of the attack are 2 different things
@@eyedontlose8836 30 minutes and he still thought he was right😭
For the whole recoil argument. I’m convinced that Noodles was arguing for the sake of arguing because Swags argument isn’t that hard to grasp or comprehend
Thats kinda noodles' whole thing, arguing semantics for the sake of arguing and demanding confirmation for every little point, meanwhile he just spit balls blatant headcanon and speculation
Straight up, noodles doesnt hold his own arguments to the same standard that he holds other peoples arguments and its annoying af.
Just now getting around to watching, but I’m super curious if you have any examples you remember off the dome?
@@dawsong5208just watch the video plenty of examples in there
That’s the point of a debate. It’s up to his opponent to pick apart his argument.
@@ThePhantomRiskwhich is why it’s autistic. Like if you talk to someone like that, you can never get to the truth of the disagreement. Then it just becomes pointless. Unless you watch debates just to hear people yap
@@afishy1465can you just give an actual example and support your claim?
If Noodles just held his own arguments to the same “that’s an assumption!”
Then he’d actually be a good debater
He does hold his own arguments to that standard though. He’s clarified before that making assumptions are ok, it’s making baseless assumptions he has an issue with.
@@princelamar1735 Yes but it’s the issue of what counts as baseless
@@gabrielsalahi3656 Well for him a baseless assumption is an assumption that isn’t the only one that has to be made, or when your pulling it out of your head. What makes an allowed assumption is an assumption backed with real world understanding. For example if we have two drawings that look like humans an assumption noodles would not be okay with is if you said “one of the humans has rubber for a skeleton”, an assumption he would be okay with instead would be “since they look like humans they should have brains therefore hitting them in the head is a weak spot”. So long as your assumption is based on real world knowledge as well as being the most likely or evident interpretation he will be ok with the assumption.
Nah bro swag had a terrible argument the first hour and was looking crazy tbh
@@youngcracker9517 Thank you, glad to see I’m not the only one to see how terrible swag was doing there.
They need to do past Swagkage's Madara vs Noodles' Kakuzu. That will be one of the debates of all time.
Noodles Has even said Madara wipes there’s no debate to be had
@@Complexityspaz Budd missed the joke, lol.
Nah bro it aint even close with Kakuzu's RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW DURABILITY is built different
bruh that debate lasted longer than all five of Kakuzu's lives ong
Noodles is the type of guy who says that Kakuzu would beat Okina Matara in a battle because Kakuzu has that raw durability while Okina is a God of Disability and is on a chair or a wheelchair
Kakazu to Noodles is super mega ultra duper outerversal
@@yokuutsu9097 Nah Kakazu is just ultra super DEE duper Boundless
Noodles: The burden of proof isn’t on me
Also Noodles: Prove that Naruto can wipe his ass without the help of Kurama
He’s such a joke 😂
He can just get Momoshiki to do it for him now 🫣
I swear, I feel bad for Swagkage here, he's getting so confused by how illogical his opponent is that he starts losing track of his own argument because he's actually trying to keep track of the arguments and make sense of things. Noodles never gets confused because he's not trying to make sense. He just says the next thing that comes to his mind that sounds like it might make sense. Noodles head canon vs Swagkage logical inference and deduction.
Noodles is the picture perfect example of "Never argue with an idiot..."
I can feel my blood pressure slowly rising every minute I listen to this. Mad respect to both participants and moderators for actually enduring this for 4 whole hours when they had the option to simply stop at any point.
In solidarity, I will also sit through this whole thing. I would love to do one of these debates, but I’m not nearly cutthroat enough for it. I’d accept way too many things in goodwill for the sake of having a fun discussion. I’d get slaughtered lol.
that would be fun I’d love to try I know my stuff lmao
The goat
@@jonathangrover3176 I wouldn’t say it’s a children’s comic cuz we literally see people die and a lot of messed up stuff
@@shoto4520 Yeah I was exaggerating a bit lol. I think it is intended for the late middle school / early high school age bracket, right? I started reading it in middle school anyway
Noodles 100% needs to take a chill pill and apply Occum’s Razor to like 90% of the arguments he makes.
I am an hour into this and I feel like a timer needs to be set. Noodles doesn’t let Swag get a point across while repeatedly straw manning him. This is just dishonest
Edit: I’m around 2:47:00. I cannot understand why Noodles debates like this. There is no possible way he actually thinks that recoil damage from an attack is the same as getting hit with it. Additionally I think they should do their next debates as a formal debate, opening, closing and a QandA section. Noodles is being a child and taking bad faith at every opportunity.
Also around 3:03:00 Noodles admits to shotgunning, and Swag calls him out.
Would you say this debate is worth sinking the 4 hours into?
@@APerson-si8jr No
@@APerson-si8jr If you are doing a job that doesn't require 100% attention, then yes. Otherwise, probably not.
“This is the same logic of Sakura scaling to Kaguya because she punches her off guard” that’s literally the same logic noodles was using when he brings up Kono catching pain with a rasengan
broooo it's actually crazy how a good chunk of the debate is so much more unnecessary with this sentence in mind. I'm only an hour in and this rasenshuriken shit has my brain going through lag irl. Good on you for catching that shit.
@@dawsong5208 Yes, this level of debate is absolutely stupid and is fueled by bad faith debaters.
@@dawsong5208 except he conceded that point willfully, so it's not a catch
@@dawsong5208well swag was the one saying Sakura scales above Madara with the ten tails because of that in another video
Man Six that part where Noodles was trying to argue getting hit with Rasenshuriken was the same as using it was stupid. Props to you and Swag for dealing with that shit lmao
Agreed lmao
Lmao.😂😂
That was a very nasty argument I couldn’t believe what I was hearing
@@Tkyoking All he had to say was "Why does naruto throw his substitutions to increase their speed then?" and he was done lol
Just listened to the ENTIRE THING! I won't spoil it. But my conclusion is Swagkage won. The majority of Swag's statements and debunks were cut and dry. And directly from the manga with the most favored interpretations. While Noodle's statements and debunks were majorly stretches. Like I guess you can interpret it that way but in the long run those points don't hold up and Swag pointed it out. Some of Noodle's points did stick. But not enough to confirm victory. A lot of good points Swag had literally got pushed to the side because Noodle's kept pushing the finish line farther back. Smart tactic but nah Swag took this one
Ill spoil this shit. Noodles is a loser and literally did NOT provide a SINGLE POINT to his argument even tho he had itachi who has 4 one shot abilities
Ill spoil this shit. Noodles is a loser and literally did NOT provide a SINGLE POINT to his argument even tho he had itachi who has 4 one shot abilities
Ill spoil this shit. Noodles is a loser and literally did NOT provide a SINGLE POINT to his argument even tho he had itachi who has 4 one shot abilities
Ill spoil this shit. Noodles is a loser and literally did NOT provide a SINGLE POINT to his argument even tho he had itachi who has 4 one shot abilities
Swag loss , they gave majority vote to noodles .
Bruh when he started to ask "did kishi wrote this" i just couldnt anymore.
"prove it"
🙈
Looking at this again and Noodles really holds Swag's arguments and expectations to an absurd standard while denying what would be direct proof by using semantics. His Konohamaru shenanigans were downright dirty and the argument of the Rasenshuriken being slower than Sage Naruto was terrible.
Noodles: Ninja uses ninjutsu and ninjutsu uses chakra therefore outerversal Konohamaru
Swag: That doesn't make any-
Noodles: IT'S ESTABLISHED! IT'S ESTABLISHED! IT'S TRUE!
meanwhile
Swag: Okay so granted that there is a sky with clouds in the Naruto series-
Noodles: PROOF! PROOF! PROVE IT! TWELVE STATEMENTS FROM AUTHOR RIGHT NOW TO PROVE IT! GET KISHIMOTO ON THE PHONE TO CONFIRM OR IT'S HEADCANON!
It's unreal.
@@yagamifire7861 You're literally right.
It is possible that him throwing it would be slower than him running with it but I still don't see how you think it's so much slower that konahamaru would be faster than it
absolutely loved all 4 hours of this! been watching swagkage since like 2017-18......
Thanks Six for hosting this. Ive listened to the Sakura vs Madara debate with you and Swag vs Kabuki and Afro, and the Pain vs Kakuzu debate with Noodles and Swag, probably dozens of times over the past years. Certain that this is going to provide a lot of entertainment as well. Much appreciated
i feel like it's incredibly disingenuous to say that the rasenshuriken is slower than naruto, the whole act of throwing it would narratively imply that it at least gives him some advantage. if it is worse to throw it then are you saying kishimoto really intended for the rasenshuriken to be best in close quarters? even though for the rest of the series naruto mostly throws it compared to close quarters use.
But isn't the point of the rasenshuriken being thrown that it doesn't start detonating in Naruto's hand?
So he doesn't break his arm everytime he uses it?
Not to say whether or not Naruto is faster than his thrown rasenshuriken or not, I am not enough of a powerscaler to give an evidence based opinion on that, but the reason for it being thrown, as far as I know, has nothing to do with its speed.
Kishimoto did intend that funnily enough. The Rasenshuriken was originally supossed to be used like a normal rasengan like Naruto did against Kakuzu. Then Tsunade explained how bad the drawbacks are on Naruto hence why he throws it.
I don't think throwing it is slower tho, based on the interaction with the 3rd raikage
@@Azamingg it may be the case for as far as just sage mode naruto, but chakra mode should be able to handle using it close range
at least from feats of other attacks he's tanked in the war. like with the tailed beast bombs in the crimson formation.
I think it does give him does some advantage not throwing it. But he *ALWAYS* throws it so regardless it doesn't matter, Honestly I think it's cause of when Tsunade yells at Naruto and yells at him to never use the jutsu again, then he learns to throw it removing all risk so look Granny you can't yell at me any more
Swagkage back from the nether realm
Chibaku Tensei is the ultimate win con here. A non fatigued Pain is suffocating Itachi 100%. Why even argue Pain can’t hold it up for longer? It’s a jutsu and jutsus are chakra based, if he uses a very taxing jutsu (chaotic Shinra tensei) then obviously his chibaku tensei will not last as long. The debate that it won’t be much of a time difference is also bad considering the chakra output of chaotic and the fact that Noodles said that if he were to use chaotic again it will kill Pain.
Susano tho?
He can’t hold it up so he’s waisting chakra,itachi can sub out of it or use a clone or izanagi & more but Itachi is stated to be light speed & pain has no light speed feats nor statements & pain has no feat of stopping genjustu so itachi would just blitz him kill him with anything he chooses
@@Kmarks_ You cant simply sub out of the gravitational pull of Chibaku Tensei, and clearly using a clone would be ineffective considering the pull tends to be universal to all objects in range. Edo Itachi himself doesnt attempt either of these techniques to escape Chibaku Tensei in the first place.
Itachi's never been blatantly stated to have been light speed, although I personally believe he scales close to lightspeed in terms of feats. Although depending on the paths I dont see him blitzing all the Paths of pain in a single go. Especially if he's using susanoo.
@@nirjhar4803 itachi had plenty of ways dealing with the CT,but like I said he can use izanagi & pain didn’t know Naruto shadow clones from the original so Itachi could use that but pain is slower wen all 6 are up, if konohamaru can react to a pain itachi is blitzing them
Pain has no feats on stopping genjustu so there’s that,edo itachi is even faster he’s protecting sasuke & holding back on kabuto who was bout to no diff sasuke til itachi saved him,ems sasuke & kcm1 was relative in speed & ap…Itachi is faster & stronger than ems so no itachi is far above light speed.
4hrs debating SICK Itachi vs Pain who pulled up to the leaf, beat everyone in it, blew the entire thing up, and then proceeded to beat Sage Naruto😭
Yeah, but Konohamaru is faster tho xD
@@kimberly4275 the Sarutobi’s are built different. Prime Hiruzin is the strongest Kage ever. Second to Kakashi and third to Prime Naruto
@@TheUncivilizedNation featless/ probably retconned .
@@TheUncivilizedNation you saying hiruzin beating hasirama?
@@SpadedL in his prime yes
Swag should’ve brought the will of fire argument to konohamaru hitting one of the pains with a rasengan lol
Noodles is so scummy with his arguments and when swag tries to call him out or play just like noodles, he just deflects the arguments or calls swag out on being underhanded.
The fact that we all had to sit through the rasenshuriken arguments is crazy
Anyone wanna trade memories and forget this
Before naruto killed tendo with a regular rasengan, Tendo thinks to himself it’s fine he can’t throw that one. Does that not imply rasenshuriken is faster than naruto.
What a great point
We really needed this fight
It would be cool if kishimoto would do chapters of fan fight matchups. Just to see how the author would do it too. I think kishi would go absolutely wild with this fight
@@LuciferArc1 has that ever happened before? Studio Pierrot and Kishimoto’s editors are so goddamn greedy yet they don’t get the quantity they’d get from these what if fights
Bro noodles is so disingenuous, the all ninjutsu argument, the konohamaru stuff, the failed debunk on pushing pains out the way and I’m only an hour and 30 mins in.
That semantic shit was annoying asf.
W upload, bout to grab some food and watch this all night
I wanna target the Rasinshuriken point lol homie really saying that throwing it is slower 🤦🏽♂️ if anything it’s most definitely faster! Take anything solid that you’ve ever thrown in your life…that object will move faster from point a to point b then YOU can if you decided to run with it from point a to point b 😂 that’s just a basic fact of life. Bro logic really left the chat with that one (and some others 😅)
Logic in real life not anime where people have superspeed and shit
Baseless assumption
@@theredscum4202superspeed and they're still throwing things, because throwing is faster
@@Wyrm7774
And doesn't require you to put yourself at risk of damage. Also in Rasenshuriken's case, because they literally stated prior after the Kakuzu fight that it has negative side effects to the point where the Goddess of Medical Ninjutsu deemed it a Kinjutsu/Forbidden Jutsu. So it's potentially harmful to the user to use it up close rather than throwing it.
@@ZaharJudah isn’t it a baseless assumption to assume that it is slower though?
Swag you a strong soul for being able to maintain your sanity thru 4 hours of talking to this person 🙏🙏🙏 shout out to you frfr
Noodles would read "Mammals have fur" in his biology textbook and then say "well it doesnt mean all mammals because it doesnt say "all" mammals"
imma let you finish, but not all mammals have fur my guy...
No I know where noodles is coming from I was actually hoping I could jump in just to defend him and I like swagkage better. What I would have said in noodles defense is a bullet proof vest is stated to stop bullets. But we all know it doesn't stop ALL bullets. So same logic can be applied. Not saying noodles is right but when you and swag came for his explanation that unless expressly stated that all of something is blocked by an entity rather than a blanket statement such as that something is blocked by an entity than you could argue the statement might not mean all
I see your point but on that front he would be right. Quite a few mammals don't have fur.
Humans are mammals so not the best analogy
Tried to make a point and ended up making yourself look foolish, lol
Noodles just comes off as passive aggressive sometimes; he's quite a personality that's easy to dislike.
Noodles acts like he’s an edgeworth but really a gumshoe. Man couldn’t win an argument with a light pole
W Ace Attorney reference
This mf noodles is unbearable "prove the statement in the data book is true" "prove the statement in the manga was written by the author" oh my God bro
I thought you were joking, he actually pulls this shit
Noodles did nothing to make me ACTUALLY believe Itachi wins here... he just pushed debate bro nonsense. Noodles is all like "here's a claim I won't firmly establish now prove I'm wrong"... instead of him laying down a fondation and showing he's right he just gives Swag a claim he can't refute because Swag obviously isn't trained to deal with debate bro shit and doesn't have live calcs... then at the 3+ hour point Swag was giving up ponts just to finish because lulz 4 hour debate lol... even if Noodles "technically" won on scoring because points he still loses the actual debate...
So you might be like isn't that the point? Swag "lost" because he's worse at debating right? No... no because Rocky 1 exists... Noodles is a debate bro! Imagine me some guy off the street fight prime Tyson and he has to hit me once then run the clock for his dub? I'm the hero at the end in this situation because why didn't you just ko me? Why are you the accomplished fighter using dirty underhanded tactics to win? Noodles boxed Swag for like 45 mins then just went aggressive debate virgin for 3 hours after that... Swag had to stop like a dozen times like bro you asked me a question let me actually respond to it... so... you win Noodles I guess 🙄 but Swag is by far the hero here and it has nothing to do with audience size that's a cope. This debate was Rocky 1. As the ref announced "Noodles wins!" The audience sadly didn't hear it because... we were too busy cheering for Swag and that's 100% on Noodles for that.
Noodles did not win this debate imo swag refuted the points that mattered and noodles scales contradict them selves which swag pointed out of the judges gave it to noodle they were wrong again this is just my opinion
Swagkage debates more fairly. I don't know the other dude but the way he was debating was mad annoying. Bro was trying to push his agenda and argument way too much.
"More fairly" prohibites any canon fact about itachi except blind and dead itschi version vs sasuke. Noodles is a cloen but swagkages is an bad debater. He literally dven lost to noodles
“He was trying to push his argument too much” you mean, like, the entire point of debating?
@QuitTheDownplay there is a difference between debating and cutting someone's argument off to push your agenda. If you're going to cut someone off because you don't even wanna factor in a counterpoint, then there is no point debating.
@@KIDInuyasha96swag cut him off multiple times too you are simply bias
@QuitTheDownplay i quit listening after 20 mins. I do got a bit of bias because I've heard Swag debate before. The other dude came off unlikeablein my opinion within the first 10 mins. 🤷🏾♂️ he was trying too hard.
9:47 this is already such a bad faith argument. to say that it doesn't matter that nagato wasnt expecting itachi to attack him is delusional. i legit cant believe anyone would even try to argue that. so if thats the logic then does danzo scale to shisui? does black zetsu scale to 3 eyed juubidara? sakura scale to kaguya? does himawari scale to hokage naruto? they must since it doesnt matter if youre ready or not
Bro amaterasu is a obvious attack for dojutsu users who can identify chakra or feel it 💀
@fr lol and it’s not like there isn’t a dead give away it’s coming like his ms activation and blood coming out of his eyes. Mfer literally winks when he uses it 😂
What’s the point of a debate if dude won’t let swag talk? Also noodle keep calling swag out for assuming everything meanwhile he himself has nothing but assumptions.
Dude did the same thing the last time they debated 😅
Swag interrupted literally almost as much as Noodles. Swag made more assumptions as well.
@@borger260 yeah, trying to finish his sentence.
@@borger26099% of the times he interrupted was trying to finish what he was saying after being interrupted 💀noodles argues like a child
@@MaxJakkzit’s a debate tho that’s the point don’t watch it if you don’t like how noodles debate
This debate could have been over in 5 minutes if Swag just asked what Itachi is doing against Chibaku Tensei. Unless Noodles breaks out the RAW DURABILITY argument for SICK ITACHI the argument ends there.
he did mention tensei
@ I know but they danced around the subject and swag didn’t press it nearly hard enough.
@@Redacted_Ruler valid but noodles would just call it assumptions or something anyway and force swag off it lol
@ Sounds like a very noodles thing to do
Can we please get a Six v Swag / Itachi v Nagato debate? I feel like that should’ve been a thing already and it’d be much more constructive and entertaining than this
I'm pretty sure they made an edo itachi vs nagato video together i can't remember if it was an actual debate though
@@2406westI think that was an opinion piece iirc but thanks for reminding me of it.
@@thegreatkabukino6639 i think so too and i think they both agreed edo itachi wins. i agree with that too but sick itachi vs pain is a wash imo. itachi would need prep time and an off guard pain for a shot and might still not have the juice to get it done imo
no no no no i need orochimaru vs itachi base. So my boi orochimaru can get some respect
@@2406west 100% agree homie
Six smart for recording this
Got to document Noodles getting cooked again
2 hours in might need to pause for now, but dirty tactitcs on both sides, however so far at the very least swag is the lesser offender. If you use the opponents claim to support your own arguement you have to concede your stance, noodles does not do this, instead he uses swags claims when it benefits him while still standing by his own which doesnt make any sense. Swag not giving early shippuden itachi the mirror and blade seems dirty, but its not unwarranted considering how noodles is going about the debate so far
Edit: the more I watch the rattier and worse noodles points get 💀
I have finally finished this video, and I gotta say, swag could've talked about the 2 other instances where naruto chose to throw the rasenshuriken at madara, instead of trying to melee him with it. The moment that takes the cake for me, is noodles arguing that konohamaru can take pain off guard lol
This one was a lot closer than last time from everything I've seen
Half of it is Noodles doing some growing up. Half of it is Itachi vs Pain being a legit matchup lol.
Noodles made the debate 2 hours longer than it should've.
He fucking cut out noodle's face because of how cursed it was 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
As light yagami once said: Good Riddance 😈
I'm definitely gonna sit back and grab snack and enjoy this debate
Noodles' debating style is unironically comedic, swag bringing up solid counterpoints and noodles going "this isn't true, and even if it was this doesn't apply/this isn't the case." At one point also getting riled up, with six telling them to relax and take a breather, Noodles then responding to six telling him he's not going to let swag move on from this (his pointing out what he believed to be an inconsistency in swag's argument) then leading to swag proving him completely wrong and his deflection being "but let's move on from this point, what is it that you wanted to say about chibaku tensei."
Also, just to point out. Noodle accidentally proved Naruto characters aren't light speed. If they were, the 5 second delay between shinra tensei would be made trivial. There are plenty of panels showing an attack closing in on Pain with a count down. Light speed travels the planet in one second by the way.
The “Prove Kishimoto wrote that”part was incredibly scummy, Swag clearly won the debate.
was waiting 2 years for dis man
1:22:36 It’s 3 AM so… uh… here’s the difference as I see it.
A Jinchuriki Transformation and Ninjutsu differ in the molding of Chakra. Ninjutsu functions by applying transformation to one’s chakra, altering it and funneling that energy into a specified effect. Jinchuriki forms directly apply chakra to the body to enhance and protect it.
The best comparison is how Cursed Energy works. Jinchuriki forms are akin to raw CE Reinforcement and Output, while Ninjutsu and Genjutsu are Cursed Techniques, funneling Chakra into a more usable form.
That being said, Shinra Tensei dispels ninjutsu through brute, repulsive force. It’s just raw power dismantling the makeup of a Jutsu.
This debate was kinda ass overall. It was basically 4 hours of semantics. Few solid points were allowed to be made, and very little was actually gone over. It's sad because this stuff can be interesting to discuss or listen to, but they kept hanging up on the most asinine or ridiculous bullshit.
Dude, Noodles is kinda unbearable here. comparing Konahamaru to pain and saying all the paths of Pain are equal in speed... THEN he brings up the expanding Rasen shuriken panel which proves that they all aren't the same speed. because one of them had to be saved while the others were jumping away. It hurts my ears hearing him worm around this debate. Lol
This is how I know Swagkage is secretly a masochist. No man or woman that values his or her safety and health would willingly wanna have a prolonged conversation with Noodles. Let alone a debate for 4 hours. Having to sit through that long period of time of the man’s mindless yammering and yapping is enough to drive you insane.💀
Kakuzu : Nah, I'd win
I've never in my life seen someone talk someone into answering a specific way. Thats not debating. Noodles literally talks to hear his own voice. Dude says Mangekyo is the strongest dojutsu. Dude doesnt undedstand what recoil means. 🗑
2:30:00 bro acted as if tanking the recoil of a shotgun is the same as getting hit with a shotgun 😂😂😂
Your not literaly creating the attack from your body with a shotgun tho flaud comparison
@@ZaharJudahusing the rasenshuriken is not equivalent to being hit by it.
@@ZaharJudah bruh after hitting rasenshuriken the enemy gets blown anyway but naruto back then still took damage from the recoil of blasting rasenshuriken this ain't even a debate kinda using a little brain could literally make u realize that landing rasenshuriken and recoil of it isn't even close to equal
Kaguya did not see Sakura cause Sakura came in through her byakugan blindspot. Noodles what are you saying ??
Not defending Noodles here by any means. His debate tactics are terrible and disingenuous but there is plausibility to that theory. We know the Byakugan has a blind spot and it's an assumption to say Kaguya wouldn't have one just because she's an Otsutsuki. Saying that though the blind spot is incredibly small, smaller than Sakura. It took Kidomaru weaving an incredibly small arrow with perfect precision to take advantage of the blind spot on Neji. For Sakura to remain in the blind spot she'd have to do the same only with her entire person which is a lot bigger than the arrow. So while plausible it isn't very likely. To add to this she should also be able to sense Sakura being there as she has all the same sensing capabilities Naruto has, seeing as those abilities originally came from Kaguya so its not really an argument. Even if Kaguya couldn't see her she could definitely sense her. What makes it worse is it's Noodles job to know this stuff. I'm just a regular guy that likes Naruto and even I know this stuff. Kind of embarrassing on Noodles part
@@adamdonovan7269was so weird cause our brain literally can completely block certain things we see out as we’re currently seeing them just because it’s not relevant information to our brains or just to fill a gap so to speak
Maybe it was a big blind spot 😂🤣
LMFAOOO thought it was gonna at least go up tmr 😂
Im sorry, I know this is 4 months old and no one will see this comment but the recoil argument REALLY upset me, the fact that noodles would just not understand or comprehend how recoil damage works is so dumb - NARUTO LITERALLY HAS RECOIL DAMAGE = the gates have recoil effect - just as guy trains his body to be able to hand the recoil of gate 6 without any draw backs to is health is the exact same as naruto in sage mode not taking recoil damage because his body is stronger. that was SUPER disingenuous
I see you. And you're absolutely right. Swag's 50 Cal Analogy was on point. There's a difference between "tanking" the recoil from the shot, and tanking a bullet to the chest, a difference Noodles can't seem to grasp.
@@JonTheMaven thanks for agreeing
Facts
29:43 for some reason swag just going "of course i play call of duty" caught me so off guard it had me dead
1:40:00 bro thinks hes in ace attorney
1:56:45 schrodinger's rasensuriken
also since we spent so much time on whether or not the rasenshuriken scales to naruto or not, imma say it. it does scale. naruto is throwing the rasenshuriken with his physical strength given to him by sage mode. the same strength that let him throw the animal path's giant summons. so it scales to his strength
2:13:40 itachi is the only user of the jutsu and the databook says the jutsu is light speed. according to noodles' own logic, the jutsu does not scale to the user. even if itachi is holding back, the jutsu is light speed. plus there's no evidence to suggest that the jutsu specifically is nerfed.
2:18:52 SHIT HAD ME ROLLING. noodles is trolling so hard
3:25:10 bro REALLY think he in ace attorney with that von karma ass behavior
3:54:18 VON KARMA, NO!
finally finished and bro i gotta say: noodles got COOKED. though i gotta say swag was real frickin slimy forcing noodles to use uchiha hideout itachi last second on a technicality. i dont feel bad for noodles tho cause noodles was being wayyyy too pushy and demanding more evidence than an actual frickin court. evidence doesnt always prove something definitively, many things are up to interpretation and guesswork, and bro was not open to discussing interpretation at all. he shut down any conversation about interpretation off-rip by saying it wasnt definitive, and that led to a debate that went in circles and got nowhere.
Noodles would consistently shut down every single thing Swag would say that was even remotely up to interpretation and say it’s an assumption. Hell, even some straight up factual statements were dismissed by him cause it didn’t fit his narrative. Meanwhile, the entire debate he constantly makes assumption after assumption, extrapolation after extrapolation to the point where’s he’s literally snow balling his arguments in a way that just completely dismisses every single valid point Swag had. Noodles assumptions take priority over Swag’s assumptions apparently cause he obviously has a tiny ass ego and has to resort to literally gaslighting Swag that he said things he didn’t say 💀. Actually unbelievable the way Noodles was talking to him at some points, should never be allowed to speak on Naruto ever again.
Noodles would consistently shut down every single thing Swag would say that was even remotely up to interpretation and say it’s an assumption. Hell, even some straight up factual statements were dismissed by him cause it didn’t fit his narrative. Meanwhile, the entire debate he constantly makes assumption after assumption, extrapolation after extrapolation to the point where’s he’s literally snow balling his arguments in a way that just completely dismisses every single valid point Swag had. Noodles assumptions take priority over Swag’s assumptions apparently cause he obviously has a tiny ass ego and has to resort to literally gaslighting Swag that he said things he didn’t say 💀. Actually unbelievable the way Noodles was talking to him at some points, should never be allowed to speak on Naruto ever again.
Noodles argues like a flat earther
3:49:01 sasuke literally told naruto they could put his rinnegan in kakashi’s eye and undo the infinite tsukuyomi noodles is just yapping at this point
When is Noodles not just yapping 😂
I like how swag argued rasenshruiken is around narutos speed and the other guy twisted it into swag saying “no reason to throw it” when swag only said that “if its not relative why would he throw it”. He twisted swags argument to work in his favor.
Noodles attempting to debate "what if an editor wrote this statement" was genuinely insane
Especially since he tries to use the same sort of "editor statement" to suggest that Itachi is the strongest akatsuki member and that he's "hiding in the bushes looking for Naruto." It's pretty hypocritical.
Itachi vs Pain
1. Itachi, Naruto & Bee Vs Nagato (controlled by Kabuto) There's a huge difference. Kabuto almost forgot about Chibaku. The real Nagato wouldn't have just stood there like a puppet. Nagato has sensory to spot Kabuto for Itachi to find. He'll easily spot Itachi nearby. Plus, Itachi had to remind Kabuto that Nagato had sensory. Itachi was finished when Nagato casted Chibaku (Planetary Devastation). The real Nagato wouldn't allow Itachi's Totsuka blade to reach the core too.
2. Naruto vs Pain = Pain (after Konoha destroyed)
- Jiraiya's info
- Prep time with 2 Sage clones
- Needed help from Frog Sage to reverse summon Naruto's clones
- Tsunade's slug advising Naruto, maybe healing too
- Pain almost made Naruto lose hope when he pinned him down until Hinata SUPER triggered him.
- Minato had to reseal for Naruto, and rebuild his confidence.
- Naruto gained Sage mode after being saved by Minato.
- Naruto fought drained Pain after destroying the whole damn village!
- On top of all of this, Pain never attacked Naruto with the intention to kill. Naruto attacked purely to kill.
Naruto would've been SUPER dead if it was truly 1 vs 1. They both were taught by Jiraiya, and came from the Uzumaki clan. Pain, "You and I are sibling disciples. As students of the same master, we ought to be able to understand one another." (A joke with truth)
3. Itachi Vs Pain = Pain
Ultimately, it'll come down to who has more chakra, Nagato. Pain is too much of a powerhouse for Itachi to last. Itachi is finished once his Susano'o is gone, assuming he's nearly or is out of chakra. Think about how well Nagato was able to control the Six Paths simultaneously. Even Pain's puppet uses advanced technologies greater than ours, like lasers and homing missiles.
Amaterasu will do absolutely nothing because it'll get absorbed or pulled off immediately! Not to mention, Amaterasu could get absorbed with a scroll, like how Jiraiya did after Itachi and Kisame ran away from Jiraiya's jutsu. I'm sure Jiraiya taught him about it. Raikage dodged Amaterasu against Sasuke, which means it's not as fast as Sasuke's Kirin (lightning). Gaara easily pulled out Madara out of his Susano'o. That means Itachi won't be perfectly guarded. Maybe Pain could pull him out because when he pulls, I don't think anything must enter Susano'o to grab Itachi, however, a push seems different. If Itachi's Totsuka blade can't reach the core of Pain's Chibaku, then he'll get trapped inside along with Susano'o. Susano'o won't be able to move.
Visual genjutsu doesn't work on Rinnegan.
(Proof): Naruto chapter 677 page 9 aka page 678. Infinite Tsukuyomi does not work on three things that were stated in the manga; Perfect Susano'o, Rinnegan and the reanimated (undead). Black Zetsu, "The light can't penetrate that Susano'o? His Rinnegan can deter even this jutsu?" This means not even the Infinite Tsukuyomi can work on Perfect Susano'o and Rinnegan. Also, Itachi's Mangekyo Sharingan is TWO LEVELS BEHIND Rinnegan, while the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan is one level behind.
Rinnegan requires Uchiha and Senju blood to activate. It is extremely rare and powerful. Why would the author make Rinnegan so LEGENDARY? The story made it clear that it was more powerful than any eye, including Mangekyō Sharingan. All that legendary talk for what? The author, Masashi Kishimoto, stated that Pain is the strongest Akatsuki.
"The strongest man in Akatsuki heads for Naruto." Some people try to curve this by stating the time when Itachi gave Naruto his power, but obviously, it was referring to Pain because he was FINALLY being revealed. The author wouldn't ruin the hype by stating, "Oh, I was referring to Itachi" because it would stop the exciting momentum. It wouldn't follow the flow.
Here's another question. Why didn't Itachi use Tsukuyomi right after Nagato casted Chibaku (Planetary Devastation), nor at all? Itachi knew he had infinite chakra too. He could've disabled Nagato so easily with it. Itachi probably knew that it wouldn't have worked against Rinnegan. If he wasn't sure then he would've at least tested it out because it's better than risking death or being captured. Itachi used Amaterasu multiple times, but he wouldn't even use Tsukuyomi once? It's because he never used it that answers the question about Rinnegan able to block all visual genjutsu, including Tsukuyomi.
Kakashi never put Rinnegan-Obito under genjutsu.
Only one person can put the other person in genjutsu at a time, not both at a time. You can't have Obito put Kakashi in genjutsu WHILE Kakashi put Obito in genjutsu. It's one at a time. Obito was in CONTROL of Kakashi during that whole fight. It was all by HIS design to have Kakashi destroy his heart that Madara implanted.
There are so many ways this fight can last long. Pain will keep reviving. Itachi will have a tough time catching him. Nagato, aka 7th Pain, can summon the Gedo Statue that's even bigger than Choji and his dad. Even they needed help. If used right, it can hurt a lot. Itachi's Yata Mirror is strong, but it doesn't cover everywhere. Susano'o can only handle so much against multiple attacks simultaneously. There are ways for Pain to grab Susanoo's arm that's holding the Totsuka blade, like his lizard's tongue or other animals biting it. Pain could even absorb away the Susano'o because Susano'o is chakra construct. Pain could use his Almighty Push hidden under the ground to blow away Susano'o while Itachi is being distracted fighting others. We all saw how much Itachi lost chakra each time he used his eye powers.
Eventually, Itachi will deplete all his chakra. Pain will rip out Itachi's soul with one touch while the others attack (not all 6). Itachi can never waste his chakra against Pain. Nagato is from the Uzumaki clan, which carries the most chakra. If this fight drags, it'll come down to who has more chakra. Pain wins. (6 Pains)
Itachi's two eyes versus 6 Pains + 7th Pain with All Powers. Izanagi will be useless against Chibaku because he'll just get pulled up again. It won't matter how long his Izanagi lasts. I doubt Izanagi and Izanami link all the Pains. Itachi might have to fight blind against the 7th Pain. And that's IF Itachi could figure out how to kill him without chakra. Either way, one touch is all Nagato will need to rip out Itachi's soul.
Pull + Rip = dead.
Or another Chibaku (Planetary Devastation) while hidden and ready to absorb powers.
I understand Itachi is extremely intelligent and powerful, but Pain is just too much of a powerhouse for Itachi. Even ChatGPT stated that Pain would win (just for humor about ChatGPT, but it's true that ChatGPT stated that Pain would win).
This is a great post. Just thought I’d share my thoughts in reply.
1. Agreed overall, good points about Kabuto’s control, Nagato’s sensory, etc. Disagree, though, about the Chibaku Tensei. Potentially, Itachi could have blown it up by using multiple Yasaka Magatama, or potentially cutting through the rocks - I think it’s debatable.
2. Agreed overall. I don’t think Katsuyu is healing Naruto. Naruto definitely would have lost 1 on 1 against a bloodlusted, non-fatigued pain, for sure. Also worth considering the three frog summons that helped him deal with the animal path and summons, and Ma and Pa using Frog Call to stun some of the summons. Preta path was also able to nullify Sage Mode.
For the Itachi vs Pain section:
-I’m not sure how to measure if Pain has more chakra than Itachi. Probably, but Itachi turned on the Susano’o when he was near death. If he started the fight fresh with Susano’o, he could last with it for a long time.
-Agreed, amaterasu actually has a lot of counters. I’m not sure if Nagato has sealing jutsu like that, but Amaterasu can be dodged, blocked, if it hits a limb/armor you can remove it, etc. I’m not sure if it’s fair to say Gaara easily pulled Madara out of Susano’o, and use that for scaling, since Gaara had a lot of assistance, and Madara was in his incomplete Susano’o, and not taking the fight seriously.
-Specifically, Sasuke says his Susano’o blocked the light, which messed with the Tsukuyomi; it’s not quite the same as just blocking it with the rinnegan alone (like Genjutsu Resistance). And remember, this is a six paths enhanced rinnegan, so comparison to other doujutsu is tricky. It’s true that Rinnegan is categorically stronger than Itachi’s Mangekyo - remember, it’s Madara’s EMS, evolved into Rinnegan, transplanted into Nagato. And Nagato is obviously highly skilled with those rinnegan, so he’d have an advantage over Itachi in that regard.
-Agreed about the pursuing Naruto thing - the third data book also explicitly says Itachi and Naruto meet by coincidence. Itachi wasn’t looking for Naruto at all. The third data book statements also has statements about Pain being the supreme leader of the Akatsuki who rules through charisma and undeniable strength, with Obito being a behind-the-scenes influence.
-Agreed with the Tsukuyomi thing for the most part, however you might also add that the Tsukuyomi just doesn’t work on Edo Tensei summons. Not sure if Itachi knew that at the time, though. But, based on black zetsu’s comments in the Itachi vs. Sasuke fight, as long as Nagato is as skilled with his Rinnegan as Sasuke is with his base sharingan, he should be able to break free from the tsukuyomi.
-Did the debaters say that Obito and Kakashi both put each other under genjutsu? I thought it was Obito that used sharingan genjutsu on Kakashi, then Kakashi broke free from it or told Obito to cut it out, and he dropped it.
-Pain can keep reviving, but only via the Naraka path, which isn’t instant. Itachi would probably figure this out quickly and kill that path, which isn’t as durable as e.g. Asura, Deva.
-Edo Itachi scales to KCM Naruto, so as long as Uchiha Hideout Itachi is vaguely relative in speed, he should be able to catch the paths.
-The Gedo Statue also has that soul-stealing dragon ability that should just be able to one-shot Itachi if it can hit (see the Hanzo fight for reference)
-I think there are counters to some of the things that you suggested about how to deal with the Susano’o, but I appreciate the way you’re thinking about it as a multi-stage fight where Pain would be attacking from multiple angles simultaneously. I wish the debate had considered more creative situations like this.
Let me know what you think!
Not to be an asshole or anything, but you should probably try to TLDR your statements if they are as long as they are.
@@joaquincortescasas8114 I feel you, but sometimes it takes a while to explain stuff in detail. Otherwise you risk oversimplifying or being disingenuous.
@@JonTheMaven I suppose so, considering that making a tldr for 1000+ words is quite challenging.
My viewpoint is: Itachi has extremely powerful abilities to challenge almost the entire cast of Naruto besides 10 tails level characters, such as:
-Speed and Reflexes on par with both Shisui and KCM1 Naruto
-Access to Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Izanagi, Izanami, and Shisui's Kotoamatsukami, all of which can end a fight when they work
-Has the most hax Susanoo weapons
The issue is that Itachi lacks enough stamina due to his terminal illness that destroyed his chakra reserves. So Nagato will win an attrition war pretty much every time.
The only way Itachi can win is using Kotoamatsukami to affect Nagato directly and force him to reveal his real location.
@@JonTheMaven Now that I think about it, Noodles could've won the debate if he didn't forgot about Itachi being capable of casting Kotoamatsukami.
It's like Swag vs Kabuki all over again.
Lmao Six sounded so disgusted that Noodles thought the Pain/Konohamaru fight was in a 300 chapter
I hear “Can you prove that” in my nightmares now
The way i see it is itachi would probably do better than jiraya, he likely takes pain down to tendo similar to naruto, but by that point itachi would be so gassed i doubt he'd have any left, meanwhile pains chakara levels are absolutely obscene, the man can fight an entire village and then the 9 tails and still beat the nine tails.
Edo itachi vs edo nagato is itachis best anti nagato feat but i doubt it would have gone the same way if the 6 paths of pain were standing infront of nagato
During the whole throwing speed argument vs pain I'm surprised no one mentioned Naruto used clones to throw himself at pain for that final rasengan. Pain literally says, "he can't throw that jutsu, this distance will keep me safe" then Naruto winds up with his clones and he's like "OH SHIT"
They definitely should have ended the debate versing each other in ninja storm 😂
In that case they both have infinite chakra and the fight would go on longer than this debate 😂🤣
4 hours... 4 hours and there's nothing about the actual like... FIGHT part of the FIGHT. Just semantics and Noodles being like "prove this, prove that, do you know what this means, you're misinterpreting" the second this man started asking the definitions of words I knew we weren't gonna hear anything about hypothetical combat scenarios and would be stuck on points because Noodles can't be wrong ever.
Giving up a point (or at the very least moving on before a segment gets to be like 40 minutes long) in a debate isn't the end of the world unless that point is the crutch of your whole stance. I knew from personal experience that bro could not cook if someone brought facts to him, he deflects and calls you stupid if your interpretation is different from his but HOLY SHIT.
Agreed, this was nothing
"It is impossible to be in Naruto's mind therefore the Rasenshuriken is slower than Konohamaru" LMAO
This debate was pretty fun for like the first half but then noodles started acting like all his points were canon because he said them and kishimoto himself would need a secondary source to prove anything to him. He was just being so slimy and so ratty with the jutsu scaling or not scaling to the user argument. Then after getting in his feelings because he perceived swag as being “cheeky” with some language because he takes these debates “seriously” he paraded to chat for this brain dead recoil damage rasenshuriken “victory”. Maybe noodles is intelligent but he certainly didn’t display that at all in this one despite knowing the definitions of more junior SAT words than swag.
He's on record saying that he knows more about the series than Kishimoto himself, and that if Kishimoto came over and told him he's wrong, he'd call him a [redacted] and tell him to f off, so. make of that what you will
God hearing noodles tell swag he’s assuming itachi is using the water bullet at full speed is so annoying like how ironic is that. As if he’s not assuming that itachi can adjust the speed of the jutsu even though it’s not implied anywhere
49:32 This is an absolutely correct point.
1:10:52 Point
1:40:37 When you know you lost. Orochimaru has looked for the Totsuka blade for a long time and could never find it. So we can at least already deduce that Itachi has had it for a decent amount of time.
1:56:15 He did argue that it doesn’t scale lmao. Instead of arguing about if it scales in terms of speed they should’ve just shown a time that a raise shuriken was weaker or stronger than another one.
2:38:49 Point
2:47:41 Saying he’s doing that implies that he’s making conscious decisions whereas in the show we see he has no control, or recollection of events. Giving him a conscious perspective around these parts is kinda disingenuous lol. It’s all just assumptions.
I was excited to listen to this until I realized who Swag was debating. No thanks.
Noodles complete lack of willing to actually entertain any arguments in good faith severely hurt the audiences willingness to actually give him the win in this debate
i took two naps during this video, only to realize my mans six was neva gonna argue
Noodles: Rasen Shuriken is not faster than the Caster, so he wouldnt have to go CQC with Pain!
Swagkage: If it isnt faster than the Caster, why would he throw it, if its better to be upclose
Noodles: Because he'd take damage
Swagkage: He doesnt (proves it with Sage Mode)
Noodles: Proof to me, that my statement is wrong, by assuming my statement is right!
Noodles: Idc what a potential Editor has to say in a volume
Swagkage: But Kishimoto was still narrating everything since it was weekly releases
Noodles: Narrator says that Itachi is the strongest
Swagkage: Why isnt the other valid then
Noodles: Proof to me that my statement is wrong and yours is valid!
LOL
Noodles is a terrible vs debater. He would be a great lawyer tho, because all he uses are tactics rather than just plain and simply arguing his case.
no offense but try debating him then lmfao
he is not a terrible debater
can say some annoying stuff for the sake of debate and winning but doesn't make him a bad vs debater
u all in the comments actually losing it lmao
nonetheless it was a lot closer than last time
could get painful to listen to at points but it was back and forth clearly
@@onizukasensei5321 what are you e to talking about? This is literally my only comment on this video.
And also if you think this was a balanced debate then you are wrong. To put it simply, Noodles is a hypocrite, he’ll try to use headcanon for feats and then if you call out that it’s headcanon his rebuttal is “prove that it’s not true then” when he should be proving that it is true. Swag was too nice and trying to be respectful and that was the problem, Noodles kept taking advantage of that. Noodles uses tactics in his debates
It’s a tactic used to make the person you’re arguing with backtrack and second guess their points to give yourself the upper hand wether you’re right or wrong in the argument
@@onizukasensei5321noodles is a giant hypocrite. He does not hold himself to the same standard as others.
He can say a shit argument and thinks it should slide but would NEVER let that same thing slide for someone else. He is dishonest
@@demontiming3234 how does "you all in the comments" imply that i am saying u made multiple comments
i am saying u all as in the hoards of people commenting a similar take to this
@@demontiming3234
"he’ll try to use headcanon for feats and then if you call out that it’s headcanon his rebuttal is “prove that it’s not true then” when he should be proving that it is true."
swag literally used headcannon examples too in fact it is far more common for him to do so than noodles why did u even try saying that
I can agree he can be hypocritical at points tho but there were points where they were BOTH going back on their points and contradicting themselves.
and saying swag is too nice and trying to be respectful was the problem as noodles wld take advantage of that isn't even funny. How did you come up with that. If anything it was much closer to the opposite did you even watch the livestream? Baffled you even attempted to claim that.
and i don't see what is wrong with using tactics in a debate. I don't see what is wrong with trying to find inconsistencies in someone's arguments.
but to each their own not gonna argue on this again
It’s stated that the rinnegan paths and summonings share vision. To say that Itachi stabbed the eyes of the summonings for any reason other than to get around their shared vision is crazy lol. He deflee did that so Nagato couldn’t see through them.
Honestly I hate this noodle guys. Bro turned itachi vs pain (sick vs battle/debate) into why is the rasenshuriken being thrown. Also, the fact that he can’t even understand the difference between getting HIT BY IT and damage from slamming it against someone with your hand is mind boggling. Other than that the most interesting thing to me was that swagkage broke up w his fiancé and is dating someone else??? Did I hear that right
No way, what's the timestamp for the fiance statement
@@prolastmedia6171 1:36:08
Tbh I think Six would have done better in this debate than Noodles. For the simple reason I believe Six can articulate his points better.
People legit seem to forget that konohamaru even at this age was no fuckin joke when he gets a mental amp.
People will gas up kid sasuke for knowing fire release but give no credit to Konohamaru knowing the 4th hokages A class ninjutsu at around the same age
@@rhysjonsmusicRasengan is an S class jutsu
@@adamdonovan7269 I thought it was the rasenshuriken that's an S class?
Yeah it's crazy how he could've just gg'd pain with a single sexy jutsu but chose not to, Naruto fodder compared to him tbh
Noodles has clearly never fired a gun before in his life. He has not the slightest clue how recoil works.