I'm a classicist, so I'm mostly familiar with PIE linguistics and Graeco-Roman mythology, but your comment about how ritual was more important than faith for pagan religions suddenly enlightened my understanding of Greek and Roman beliefs. I already knew from literary sources that people didn't always believe in the gods in the most literal sense, certainly not in later periods, but as long as the rituals were performed, that faith wasn't really required. Which seems to me why accusations of impiety and such only happened when it would affect the rituals and actions. It also matches with some of the discussions that happened in the early centuries of Christianity since in pagan apologetic literature, we can see that they emphasise that the traditional rites should be performed because they have allowed Rome to be safe and powerful for centuries and certainly not done harm, rather than discussing faith (which the Christians do in their apologetic literature). While some scepticism remains for some of the things you mention based on things I've learned from my professors, there is an incredible richness and depth of research in these videos and they form a very interesting supplement to knowledge I already have.
@@Crecganford I too appreciate your emphasis on the importance of practice over "faith", something I've noticed many Christian scholars overlook or ignore although Pagan writers are adamantly insistent must be performed. Religions have many similarities, yet are very different from one another. Thank you.
Wow, nice feedback when taken into the context of the video. I've noticed a massive departure in religions from older ones - older religions like those of the helenistic era are, as you said, far more secular and ritualistic. I'd often laugh at how the Greeks seemed to have as much disdain for their own gods as their gods often had for them. Zues himself was such a pompous prick... there was no reason to really like him. The Romans, in particular, were so ritualistic that it defined much of their culture to such a degree that without it? We probably wouldn't know as much about as we do now. Their penitent to record, legalize, legislate, and count EVERYTHING via a Diety ordained Standard Operating Procedure is what helped them be so organized and also so bureaucratic. However younger religions like Islam and Christianity are far more prophetic and center themselves around Doomsday styled cult memetics. Much of that has to do with an older religion (Judiasm) having its ritual heart (the Temple) being shattered by foreigners of another old ritualistic religion (Romans). To make up for the Broken Covenant, Christianity reforms the Temple and becomes a redemption / revolutionary Faith. Islam is much the same way, a reinvention of an old message, although ritualistic needs is still required more in Islam than an in Christianity. Both new 'Faiths' have holistic goals; an end game if you will - where as the old religions don't. Sure the world may end according to the old religions as well but it's perceived as an inevitable death or rebirth, not as an ascension to a higher plane of being. It's interesting how the later religions place more value on Faith. Even old Judiasm is very removed from the faith aspect. It focuses far more an actual deeds and following the law (ritualism) than it does blind faith.
This is still true of multiple modern religions. Japanese syncretic religion (a mishmash of Shinto, Buddhism, and Christianity) certainly values the *doing* of rituals above any coherent belief system.
The creation story reminds me of the creation story of silmarillion. Not in the relationship between entities, but in how it creates good and evil. Tolkien did an amazing job of recreating a natural religion
Tolkien was a practicing Catholic and also a linguist with a great interest in Germanic and Norse myths. The religion in Middle Earth was deliberately written so that “Eru” has the same attributes as the catholic/Jewish conception of God (and through that an Aristotelian conception). The similarity likely stems from that.
all of the stories of middle earth are tolkiens version of earths history. the Silmarillion is similar to this creation myth because that's where it was literally derived.
Hi, good video. Purusha in Rigveda is also called Manu (Shraddhadeva Manu) and his twin brother is Yama. And get this, Manu is considered to have built a boat when warned by a fish that a great deluge is coming and thereby saved the 7 sages, so Manu is somehow associated as Noah and Gilgamesh. Yama in RigVeda is the first mortal and hence considered the lord of afterlife like hades.
@@manh9105 yeah but the similarity just doesn't seem coincidental, our creation story plausibly influenced the people who later on migrated deep into the European wetlands from eastern europe, Eastern Europe Caucuses are fairly easy to reach and have historically been places of multiethnic presence
Much respect for you to even turn down sponsorships and for only doing these videos to educate people. That seems very rare to me. It is very appreciated!
Hecate is often represented as a three-faced or three headed goddess, and she's just one of many forms of the maiden, mother, crone triple goddess in many cultures. The interesting thing about Hecate is that, although she's considered part of the Greek pantheon, she may have pre-Greek origins in Anatolia and she is traditionally associated with snakes.
Yes, she is definitely an earlier representation, and perhaps influences the shape of the serpent in older mythology, with the three-headed six-eyed serpent of NgWhi.
The Egyptian gods and the Greek gods are the same. Origin is Anatolia. Hecate might be the Befana of Italy. She starts young early in the year and becomes old. Anna Perenna was the name of the Etruscan godess.
@@peterlokin4098I think he's saying that she was one of the early snake deities that influenced where they would eventually land as a cultural artifact
Grateful that I found your channel The sheer amount of hardwork you put into these. And the respect you have for all cultures you discuss is staggering. However, as an Indian, I want to point out that in Vedic Culture, Manus is *Manu* and Yemos or Ymir is *Yama*
not the same manu we know, we know it through manusriti , the political book . i think here manu is more of a divine being, probably manus has directly become manav or manush is our languages
In 4 years of almost daily youtube use, you are UNDOUBTABLY one of the greatest channels I have discovered, I feel lucky, like I've struck gold, to have found your channel. You combine multiple modes of thought into holistic, engaging, intuitive understanding. For me, the greatest part of your comprehensive explanations is that they let us all appreciate the magnificent scope of our sacred, precious humanity. Listening to you talk is like watching a tapestry get woven together, as threads of ideas become one whole, beautiful masterpiece. Thank you so much for taking the leap of faith and starting to make these videos, and thank you so much for continuing this great work, and putting so much valuable education out into the ether for us all, thank you Crecganford!!!
I happened to run across this channel by mistake on Monday, and have spent my lunch break this entire week watching nothing but your episodes. Many thanks for such a thorough, engaging, and cerebral series!
@@Crecganford No apologies required at all. Extremely happy I found your channel! Already subscribed, but I do have one question, if you would allow. Would you suggest watching your videos from a chronological order in how you uploaded them, or watching them based on topics? But thank you so much for taking the time to reply!
I would rather watch your videos than watch the news!! You speak with an honest objectivity. You are such a wonderful alternative. Simple facts. Please keep this up. You ARE doing a wonderful service in these times of ego and stupidity.
@teachers Thank you, I do teach, and therefore it would not be in my interest to make these dogmatic, or anything other than factual. So I appreciate people noticing this.
Love seeing motifs that translate into later cultures. I can't help but think of Seth and Osiris when manus is dismembering his brother. Also can't help but think of tiamat in regards to a serpent monster being the antagonist. Also tiamat again in the using of a divine body to create the heavens and the earth. Hearing these PIE myths really is like reading part of our cultures genome
Yes, the beginning myths of many cultures are very similar, and I will talk about these more in my next video. Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment.
I really enjoy your videos and am amazed by the depth of your exploration into these topics. When I was three years old, I had a recurring dream. In this dream, I was floating in a boat in complete darkness and emptiness, accompanied by two humanoid beings. I was sitting in the middle of the boat between them while they rowed. One of the beings was red, and the other was blue. We didn’t speak, but I could somehow understand them mentally, and I thought of them as my parents. This dream repeated often. A year later, I had a similar dream, but this time, instead of me, there was a cow sitting in the boat. When I woke up, I thought how strange and amusing it was, wondering what the cow was doing there. Ever since, I’ve been trying to understand the meaning of these dreams and have searched for various interpretations. That’s how I came across the work of Carl Gustav Jung, who developed the theory of the Collective Unconscious and interpreted dreams through mythology. Based on your stories, if my assumptions are correct, these dreams seem to be an ancient inheritance from the collective unconscious. I believe the cow in my dream represented the first human, who gave birth to all other humans. That’s why, in many ancient cultures, the cow was considered sacred, much like humans. There’s a Russian folk tale called "Ivan, the Cow’s Son," where the main character is the son of a cow and eventually defeats a dragon. So, in a way, the ideal human is a direct descendant of the cow. Additionally, you mentioned that in the beginning, there was only fire and ice, and then Manus and Yemo appeared. I believe they personified fire and ice, as one was red and the other was blue.
About the question at the end, I'm a youtube guy and I'm not used to other platforms, besides Reddit, but this is me personally. A discord could be better/more organized than the previous ones, and people probably wouldn't mind downloading it to ask questions/read a discussion about a topic they are interested on. 🤔
I have to say I very much enjoy the focus on Indo-European history and comparative mythology that seems to be the mainstay of this channel. This is the second video on the channel that I've watched and it has become apparent that it is very much worth subscribing, as I love history and all of the various sciences that flow from such, be they mythological, religious, cultural, or linguistic studies.
@@Crecganford It is I that must thank you for your contributions to the breadth of historical knowledge available on this platform. I look forward to more presentations and discussions, hopefully for a long time to come. PS: As a side-note, the subtitles are appreciated and I've referred to them quite a few times for clarity (especially when there were other noises in the room - such as my fan on these hot summer days).
In Gustave Flaubert's < Salammbô > novel, set in the aftermath of the first punic war, at Carthage, the priestess of Tanith narrates to the mercenaries the story of "Melkarth" (Hercules/Mythra ?), who did great deeds and adventures, such as climbing the highest mountains, fighting a great war against a rival kingdom... and slaying snake-woman (dragon/hydra ?), which is pretty much the same story, with differences, than those of Hercules, Siegfried or even Cadmos, Perseus, Jason and Gilgamesh. Could we say, judging by these elements, that Hercules's twelve tasks are a sort of "old" indo european myth about a king or a prince, that was transform, through some modifications ? And same question for the myth of Remus and Romulus. It's fascinating to see how one story is rewritten and developped, complexified, through the passing time, and to one culture from another. I think even us, little people, can see some links and resemblances, but it's always fascinating, even after years and years of study, to see how one story passed through time and became a full mythology. ^^
Thank you for watching, and yes, I quote Herakles and Hercules, and others, in other Indo-European myths such as they follow the same dragon slaying story. When you start realising that so many stories and so related to so many others, then it really opens up a whole new realm of understanding about how our ancestors interacted with each other. My next video, out on Saturday, talks more about this and the dragon myths which may interest you.
I think they are so similar because they are all based on constellations. Stories were first told to keep track of seasons, but then the personifications turned them into stories of adventure.
The sumerians and Egyptians have similarities to these too, I think the creation myth is a lot more common in general points of narration elements and continuity than PIE and near east, but that's just the abrahahmic philosopher in me talking. Rituals are extremely important, in abrahahmic terms they would call that law/Torah, to keep the physical world in harmony we must have actions of the universal laws/"works", to keep the spiritual world in harmony we must have faith, that is a very old esoteric concept.
Hey man I just found your videos I think your channels great, as far as keeping in touch with the fans im not sure how to help but I just wanted to say I think the way you're presenting everything is perfect. Glad to hear you're not taking funding, I wouldn't want anything to influence the way you can present this information. Keep up the good work, man, its helping me a lot and I think you're a great story teller
I have just started a Patreon, but it won’t effect my work, but it will allow me to get a few extra books every now and then. But I won’t ever take a sponsorship or advertising, that would spoil things. Anyway, thanks for watching and your kind words.
Thanks for the video. Now that I'm disabled, I watch lots of UA-cam quite a bit. I watch conservative non-fundamentalist Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Theravada Buddhist, secular History and Science, and mythology videos Your channel falls nice into my sphere of interest, so I subscribed. I look forward to watching more of your videos.
Just found this channel. Good work. With your apparently deep understanding of linguistics, i think a video by you about the story of the tower of babel would be super interesting.
High, Just-as-High, and Third... From Gylfaginning, where Odin disguised as "Gangleri", describes three figures sitting upon thrones; 'High upon the lowest, Just-As-High on the mid-highest, and Third on the highest of the thrones.' The three-figure motif is replete across I-E culture! Love this.
hmmm this checks out Greek Zeus Poseidon and Hades Indian Vishnu Shiva and bradma roman Jupiter potoe and Neptune although I'm not sure about Celtic and Germanic.
Newly discovered your channel and I have been rapt ever since. While listening to this episode I found the point of there being a bovine link. It made me think back to the goddess' depicted with a horned headdress such as Astarte and Hathor. Also the ritual over faith point really clicked a few things into my mind regarding older civilisations and how their societies were structured. I'm really enjoying your channel and look forward to my evenings where I get to binge an episode or two.
One of my favourite new channels. Thank you so much for making these videos and sharing your knowledge. PS. Book reviews are a GREAT idea. There is so much bad stuff out there so it would save people some money knowing if the book is worth it and plus you could put Amazon links in the description so you could make a few quid too.
I still haven’t managed to get around to do a book review, but I will, so many people are asking for them. Leave it with me, and thanks for watching, and commenting
Ok ok, you got me. Subscribed. This is interesting, you read it well and are, seemingly, quite eloquently spoken and informative. Everything an educational-entertainment channel should be.
Thank you for watching, and your comments. I will try and answer as many as I can, although it is not always possible due to time constraints and work priorities.
I love the idea of you providing book reviews in future videos! They could possibly also be delivered as curated top 5 or 10 pieces of literature that you recommend for learning more about a specific topic you cover in one of your other educational videos. The UA-cam algorithm seems to favor top # lists and I think so many more people on this platform are hungry for more knowledge and insight that can be drawn from ancestral wisdom.
Yes, I will look into this, maybe as a supplementary video… I have so many books I probably could make a years worth of videos reviewing. I guess that means I guess that also means I should start sooner rather than later
You really do a great job of presenting these fascinating things in plain and understandable language. With thanks from the other side of the world (assuming you are still in the UK). Your calm and level style of presenting is even ore attractive as I only have time to listen just before bedtime.
I am so happy that I stumbled across this video! As a language geek & big fan of Joseph Campbell, that was really interesting! I will be watching more of your videos.
Thank you! I just bumped into this from the yt recommendations, and oh my did I find a treasure trove! This is exactly the stuff I want to learn more of, and your presentation hits me just right. As for questions, I am a Finn, and interested in the origins of finnic peoples and myths, and I wondering how they fit into PIE? As far as I know, finnish has some connection to sanskrit, and by my understanding the myths and peoples originated somewhere on the western Ural, but where did they come from to there? We have an old god Perkele, whose name is still on every Finn's lips when they get pissed off or frustrated, who is a storm god derived from Perkunas, but the heroes of our national epic Kalevala are mostly poem-singers, and our word for hero, sankari, comes from swedish word sjungare meaning singer.
I can't say for sure if Finnish people or culture descended from Proto-Indo-European peoples or cultures, but I can say that the Finnish language is not at all Indo-European; it's part of a small and completely different group called Finno-Uguric.
How wonderful that you love to teach. I have found that there is a lot of junk on UA-cam presenting unsupported conformation biases. Great to see well researched pieces with 😅authentic information. I have been watching your videos along with a couple of others that treat with similar time frames that support the idea you can expand your information on the topics presented with confidence that the author of the video has done real work to get the available facts. Bravo.
I want your library! All of it! I am in the process of writing a SF/Fantasy series, and need to devise mythologies for at least two alien cultures. Understanding how such myths work will be a great help. Thank you for all your hard work.
I think there's a queue building for it so I'll leave you all to fight it out when I'm gone :) and please bear in mind that you have only seen about 10% of it! Good luck with your series, I think one of the biggest secrets to myths, is that not only are they built on truths, they are often built on the truths of other cultures before them. Which really gives some exciting plot possibilities of lost civilizations, and the civilizations their myths were based on.
Crecganford I would like to learn more about the mediterranean matriarchal societies and the 3-headed god you mention in this video. What would you recommend? And thank you so much! I really like your content!!
I'm slowly piecing together information about the 3 headed god. The matriarchal societies are somewhat harder to prove effectively, but there are many papers on them. I entered via Lincoln's work on dragon slaying but just search for the topic on your favourite academic site. If you prefer an actual suggestion just ask.
I am a contemporary Volva, German-American and Indigenous First Person pagan. Your videos are the best out on European mythology, art, craft, and practice. Your demeanor in your presenting is tactful, respectful, and poignant. Your ideas and discussion resonate well with me, friend.
@@redwolf7929 What is your Facebook if you don't mind sharing here? Would need to vet your Facebook and decide if I can send you a friend request and use messanger from there. You can share the profile link with me then delete it from the comments.
Thank you so much for all your hard work! I find it fascinating. I love folklore, mythology and, urban myths. So this is very much appreciated and enjoyed.
I have viewed this video as well as your other videos, at least a dozen times or so. Each time I view one again, I gleen something new. Hopefully your other viewers are having a similar experience. Keep up the great work!
Did you write your rendition of this reconstructed tale? If so amazing job. Would love to see a book one day of all these tales in a consecutive mythology.
Great presentation. I have a question about the composite of the myth you presented at the beginning,; there were a couple of things that are different both from versions you have in earlier videos, and things I have read. *A)* In this version you say that the first twin _(*Manu)_ sacrifices the second twin _(*Yemo),_ - _to the chief diety/skyfather,_ who in return furnishes the materials/capabilities for constructing the cosmic order. In the original versions I have heard, and in your previous presentations it just appeared that _*Manu_ sacrifices _*Yemo,_ without dedication to any of the other deities, and constructs the cosmic order out of his body parts/essence (the actual offering the sacrifice to the sky/storm god only happening later with _*Trito_ Is there any particular reason why you went with this version? Is there good evidence for one or the other being the original / older variant? *B)* In this version you say that _*Trito_ is the first created man, who then goes on to become the first warrior. In other versions, and previous videos, it is usually said that he is actually the last of the three cosmic brothers (hence "third"). Which conception is generally considered to be more accurate? *C)* I guess kind of a corollary to the one above, but this seems to be a bit confused by the fact that _*Manu_ is also referred to as the first created man. Is there some meaningful distinction made between the "humanness "of the Divine Twins versus mwn after were typing in other words are they human progenitors, are they a distinct category, more akin to deities (and if so, is _*Trito_ considered to be "of a kind" to them, or in the "lesser" group) Sorry if this is a bit of a long and involved question for a comments section, but my curiosity is getting the better of me.
I'm not sure I can easily answer this in the space a UA-cam comment provides, and in my next video I'll release on September 4th, I'll answer this fully as I retell the story with some "tweaks". But to answer... the other versions I have told were abridged for time purposes, but I wanted to give the idea of the myth. The gods had to be created, and they could not be created by the King or Man, and so like other Indo-European myths, I felt the creation of them in the cosmos fitted. Trito, by first man, I should say first not sovereign man, but it didn't quite have the flow of the story, but I'll clarify that in next week's retelling. And part c is complicated :) So for Yemo to be sacrificed to make the world he must be divine, as no human could provide enough material to create the world. But he also appears in many myths as "human", and so we just have to put this down to the flexibility of myth telling, and the same applies to Manus. But I will try and firm up the myth in the next video and provide a lot more explanation of why. And so I hope you can watch that. Many thanks for a great question or three :)
I have Anglo-Irish ancestors who obviously would have been influenced by Germanic beliefs and as such derivatives of the Proto-European mythology. You are right in saying that where there are cognates and similar motifs in creation myths you can safely say that they come from the same source. I live in Mindanao Philippines now and I have noticed the similarities in the creation myths of the Visayan and Tagalog people. The common thread is always a bird and bamboo from which the first man and woman emerge. There are variations beyond this but those key elements remain.
@@Crecganford I think that just as cows were important to the Proto-Indo-European people, so bamboo was here in the Philippines. It was, and still often is, a major building material. Traditional houses called "Bahay Kubo" in Tagalog (Filipino), and "Payag" in Binisaya (Cebuano) were almost exclusively made from bamboo with roofs made from cogon grass or coconut palm leaves. Often the houses were raised on stilts, and entry was via a ladder made of bamboo. Workers around where I live often use bamboo ladders made in the traditional style. They have a higher tensile strength than steel or aluminum yet are light to carry. Of course, young bamboo shoots are part of the cuisine too. It makes sense that the first man and woman must have come from bamboo!
@@gaufrid1956 Celtic mythology is also Indo-European, so your ancestors would have been immersed in the Indo-European creation myths in both the Germanic form through the Germanic Anglo-Saxons, and the Celtic form through the Celtic Irish and Britons. Probably some Germanic Norse in there too.
@@willmosse3684 Sure! I remember my dad telling me that his side of the family also had some German ancestors. As well, my maternal grandfather's surname was "Bone", which was derived from the Norman French "Bonne", "Good". That obviously means that I had Norman ancestors as well.
I'm new to your channel and I'm am so impressed by the breadth of your knowledge. I'm a big fan of Joseph Campbell's work. I'd love to hear longer videos if you can. Like 50+ minutes or even longer. You're amazing!!
What’s really cool about the sacrifice of Yemo is… that’s kind of actually what happened. Shortly after the earth first formed, another smaller planet that we now call Theia crashed into it, half of Theia merging with the Earth, and half breaking off to form the moon. So if we consider Manus to be the earth and Yemo to be Theia, then it kind checks out. That’s kinda cool
That's a very interesting point. It's curious how we can correlate some of the oldest myths and still find bits and pieces that actually check out with nature, that were impossible for the peoples that first told them to knew about. There's the case of the pacific north-west people who, tell the story of a recurring flood myth that was always preceded by an earthquake. Recent geologic and archeologic excavations confirm the stories, because of activity in the Cascadia Fault Zone there were tsunamis hitting the coasts every 200-500 years and the first one (the mythical one) corresponds with a mega Earthquake that happened 1700 years ago.
@@kernell__ There are also multiple European and Middle Eastern flood myths that seem to reflect various historical flood events, such as the filling of the Persian Gulf, the flooding of the Black Sea, a tsunami in the Indian Ocean caused by a meteor strike, etc. Some theorise they originated in ancient stories passed down through oral tradition, while others think that it could have come from humans finding shells and fossils of sea creatures far from the sea, and therefore concluding that the land must have flooded in ancient times.
@@BambiTrout Or. As human societies settled near water, rivers, lakes the coast. And as rivers tend to have seasonal floods. And as these vary according to all sorts of weather variations with some being disastrous. Oral history wont have been needed as they experienced floods regularly.
Those people didn’t know what we know now, so it’s purely coincidence that one of the abundance of creation myths appears to have some truth in it. The best way to describe these coincidences is that saying about a broken clock.
Hi John. I really love & appreciate your videos. I would recommend creating a Discord server. It has great tools for your purpose & is easy to set up & maintain. Thanks again for sharing your vast knowledge with us!
I'm missing the Celtic myths. Do we not know enough of their mythology? And I would prefer a subreddit where you can follow threads rather than a Discord. I think you should start a patreon. Even if you don't do this for money, books aren't cheap. Use the money to buy books, custom art, etc. and give the excess to some worthy cause. There's no lack of worthy causes in the world.
We don't know too much about them, and people still argue who was really a Celt, it's a tricky subject. But will happily do a video or two in the future.
Welsh might be a first steps towards Celtic topics. I second (different) threads. Apart from that moderation is probably key. Either to keep the dynamic going or to set the tone (and keep it).
@@Crecganford it would be interesting to explore the relationship between irish mythology and Indo-European mythology to see what common threads are woven between the two traditions.
I would like to know more about the origin and meaning of the snakes/dragons in the myths, and if there is a connection between the snakes of old norse myths et cetera and the dragon myths in Asia.
Yes, this is something I'm researching right now, and will make a video when I feel I have enough good evidence to support it. This is a really interesting topic, and goes back many thousands of years.
@@Sinsteel we also see in some of these myths that the heavenly bull/slain serpent is owned by a chief goddess or the primordial serpent itself is a female, and we also know from non IE Europeans that they worshipped chiefly a chthonic female deity, for instance the Basque people still hold this memory. It could be that this is an very old memory of two vastly distinct people groups in conflict, or in fact the IE springing forth from this original mythology and distinguishing themselves, like how the Israelites separated from the canaanites albeit far more drastically
So, by mentioning that Pūrūsa means man, you unlocked for me the enigma as to why Latin has virus for man instead of a word based on m-n. Virus and Purus are close and the P changes to fricative very easily (Phurus). Greatly appreciated!
@@akalrove4834 well it seems our forefathers were pragmatic and named things according to their principal features. I keep saying that even English “woman” is made of “womb” & “man”. Which is genius and waking up to this would save many evil arguments of gender crusaders, because it kinda proves that both women and men are men (shifting the meaning of word “man” towards “human”), just one of them has a life giving womb (which was apparently much more important and precious to our predecessors).
@@rexsceleratorum1632 oh that is I guess a normal process: vira in the "man" meaning went its own way towards more specialized hero. But that is within one and the same ancestor language. Perhaps that is the reason why it changed to Purusa for just "man"? And the vira might have meant man originally in sanskrit ancestor language. But I guess the basic words like these are very well researched in the pre-IE language. So I don't want to search - for me a revelation is already the origin of Latin "virus".
@@Alarix246 Widely different forms such as purusha and vira seem unlikely to be from the same root unless one of the forms was later borrowed from a (rather distantly) related language. Both forms can't obviously obey the same set of sound laws.
12:08 matriarcal societies around the mediterranean. Is there any reliable sources on that ? While it is by no means impossible, the only things I've found so far are unconvincing rehashes of Bachofen, i.e. bold jumps from the strongly documented existence of fertility cults to rather flimsy assumption regarding political structures. I'd welcome references.
Yes, a valid challenge, so I state why infer this at ua-cam.com/video/Cgku-koMiLM/v-deo.html in the fact that serpents/dragons are predominantly female, and the serpent is based on the 3-headed god of the Indo-Mediterranean cultures (Bruce Lincoln). But there are a number of sources that would support the view of matriarchal societies existing Arthur Evans (The Earlier Religion of Greece in the Light of Cretan Discoveries), Marija Gimbutas (The Civilization of the Goddess: The World of Old Europe), or Joan Marler's “The Myth of Universal Patriarchy. A Critical Response". Now I'm a little with you as evidence isn't absolute in all circumstances, and I'm not saying all cultures were one way or the other, there was a mix which changed through time. But I hope that helps.
@@Crecganford So far, I've read J. Marler's paper (in response to Eller's). I strongly feel that both of them (and perhaps Gimbutas as well, but I've not read the archeomytology part) are trying to built a narrative of prehistoric social structures that serves a contemporary political agenda and criticize harshly narratives that don't. But I don't really see any solid argument for one narrative or the other (or they are too deeply buried in their political gangue). For now, I'll stick with the conclusions of a french paper I've read yesterday : "We have a wealth of feminine representations. Some of them have supernatural features consistent with goddesses and it is obvious that goddesses had a central or prevalent role in these peoples' pantheons. But frankly, we don't have a clue about their social organization." I'll try and read more.
@@udhessiudhessi8866 I agree there isn't enough evidence to say either way conclusively. Even saying PIE is matriarchal is based on a hyperthetical language. But to me the female dragon, the many venuses (especially pre EEF), gives me enough to say there was a significant chance there were matriarchal societies.
@@Crecganford Agreed. Although, if I gave you a hypothetical culture, whose representations of the gods were consistantly 1. a mother figure, often represented with one baby (never more), often breastfeeding it ; 2. the corpse of a man ; 3. less frequently, a non-descript bird in flight ; 4. a host of secondary figures carrying miscellaneus implements ; and absolutely no context, you might be led to wrong conclusions 🙂
There is also a slavic god of thunder called Perun which sounds similar to Perkunas so there is probably a connection there. Also, to the minoans cattle were sacred animals. Is it possible that this worship developed from this Myth of Creation?? Amazing video and thank you for the subtitles! I'm really glad to have found your channel all your work is so interesting
I like your content, and I just subscribed, but the choppy audio is a little abrasive. Is there any way you can address that? I hope you continue to produce quality work like this!
Fantastic video @Creganford, I'm definitely a subscriber now and i will be taking the time to watch through all your videos. I am curious to know your review of that Myths+Legends of India book by Wliiam Radice that is behind you.
I've read a fair few stories from it, and enjoyed them, although I don't consider it an academic source, just for relaxation, similarly with the Russian and Near East book. Just a pleasant collection of stories, although illustrations are near non-existent, which is a shame considering how lovely the books look.
@@Crecganford thank you very for your input, so it is purely just a collection of stories with no discussion of the stories themselves. Ah that's okay about the pictures, would have nice though but it's not a deal breaker, it's just like a typical novel then I guess. I'm curious now, what books would you recommend that you would consider an academic source in regards to myths and legends of the subcontinent
Ritual is key: it‘s interesting to note that that aspect has reverberated also through Vedic (in India) and Confucian (in China) teachings that seem to have defend the ‚traditional way of adhering to (forms of) rituals‘ against other, competing views.
Yes, there is a HUGE steppe component in "ProtoIndoEuropean" culture, but do not overlook the linguistic evidence for a forest and foothill origin of the people as well: terms for trees (e.g., birch, maple, ash, pines and other conifers, the many prunus species) and for animals (e.g., beaver, fox, wolf, deer, bear) have cognates in all the PIE language daughters.
Just came across your channel. Your way of presenting this material is very comprehensive. Thank you for your hard work and input. I have a question about the Dove Book, is there any English translation of this book and where to find it? Thank you in advance 👑👑🙏
I can't remember it exactly (and hopefully OP or others may already know what I'm speaking of), but I believe Tolkien said that to understand the history of a culture, one must look at their myths and fairy tales. And as I was watching this video, I realised you've been demonstrating this in all your videos, but particularly in ones like this one. Even just seeing the cognates all over the map is exciting and eye-opening
That used to be a theory, it is no longer supported academically. I think it was referenced by Lincoln in one of his papers, I'll see if I can find it.
@@briananderson2219 It's hard to tell for sure, my own belief at the moment is that this is a pure agricultural thought, and not linked to the heavens. So more to do with families and communities driving this.
@@briananderson2219 the only thing I can think of as being twins in the sky is the sun and moon. I don't know if ancient peoples saw them as the same but different, but unless there is missing stars or other astrological events I can't think of anything else that would be twined in the sky.
@@awesomeatronik I don't know what etymologists would say, but Mani sounds like Moon, as well as Man. And the moon would be the mortal twin, and also the bovine twin. I would guess a more ancient myth where a female sun kills her brother the moon, probably for incest. This idea is based on myths I have read over the years. Hey, I just had an idea that maybe Mithras kills that bull for some kind of sex crime, you know how bulls mate with women or carry them off in the ancient world. Well, this is getting very far from the content of the video.
Loving these videos, I’m not sure if you have came to a community forum yet as still working through your videos, however I am aware that other UA-camrs utilise discord as a suitable forum for open discussion and vote for future videos. I know this as I’m a member of a few UA-camrs discord servers and it appears to work for them. Keep up the good work.
I haven’t a discord yet as I just don’t have the time to manage it right now. But I’ll revisit the option again in a few months. Thanks for watching and taking the time to leave the comment.
While listening to your list of connection regarding the twin i got a question which is unrelated, dyeus pater evolve through myth just like the twin, but why in some myth he has such a drastic change? Like norse who inherited more faithfully the creation myth yet he seem to disappear or become tyr? Or what about those mythologies where being have been added above him, like the three pure one or tri murti in vedic, what the origin of the three aspect?
These are great questions, and ones I just don't have the time or space here to reply to in any decent amount. Each culture had its own reason for change, normally relating to influence from leaders, religious or kingly, and so sometimes in response to migrations. I do touch on some of this in some of the videos, but perhaps one day do deep dives on the differences of each.
And Manus can be thought to mean earth, so all men came from the earth as opposed to the gods in the heavens. It's a very earthly and natural story to explain things.
In ancient Sanskrit (or 'Samskrt,' as the correct name goes) literature, the first man is (Svaayam-bhuva) Manu. (Svaayam-bhuva means 'self-originated,' so it is more like a title.) 'Manu' is still a very, very common name for men in India, same as 'Adam' in Judeo-Christian societies. The term for human beings, homo sapiens, in all Indian languages (both Indo-European and Dravidian) is 'Manushya.' The literal meaning of Manushya is 'descendants of Manu.'
Manu not Mannus. The word Manush comes from it (Mannus makes it sound Greek). Manu was also the source of much of the caste bigotry you see to this day, so hardly someone to look up to.
Yes, Manu is the PIE word, and the s was added as the myth headed into Europe. But Manu also turned into Odin, Romulus, and even Purusa is a form of him…
@@ColtraneTaylor 1. The spirit in which we (this channel and the community that follows it) explore ancient myths is to consider them a treasure of cultural information. It is not to find gods or role models to look up to. This latter spirit is exclusive to zealots both religious and anti-religious (the Marxist and critical theory types). The religious, of course, sincerely draw values and role models from scripture. The anti-religious are more interesting: they have an unhealthy obsession with the most uncharitable readings of ancient thought, and seem to suffer from the delusion that anybody with a remotely positive disposition towards ancient thought must draw all their values from it, and must therefore be old-fashioned and narrow-minded. 2. You're referring to the manu smrti, which indeed contains casteist and otherwise reprehensible teachings. It is a specific moral doctrine from a specific period of ancient India. And names in the Indian tradition are commonly repeated across periods, genres and schools of thought. So, the manu of manu smrti need have nothing whatsoever to do with the mythical manu cognate with the PIE manus.
I love The Tain and its links to Indo-European creation and warrior myths. And so yes, it is something I want to make a video about, although this may not be until early next year.
'Manu' is also a priest in Indian Vedic stories related to a Myth about great flood. And 'Manus' is also a word in Sanskrit and some Western Indian languages which means man. But I don't know if they are related to Creation Myth or not. I was also watching to know the Indian myth, because I am an Indian. So it was a little dissatisfying that you didn't included it.
There are a number of flavours of creation myth within the Vedas and it would need at least two videos to cover them. But I'm happy to do this if there is demand.
@@Crecganford I recently watched your other video "Comparative Mythology for Indo-European creation myth", where you explained the myth related to Indian Vedas. I loved it. Although I would love to have a more detailed explanation, but I am not sure how many Indians will be interested. Also it was my first time learning that there was such creation myth in Hinduism. Since they are kind of forgotten and replaced with more believable myths.
The word for "earth/land" is "Erets". The pictographs given is an OX HEAD, the head of a man, and a road. The ox walking with a man down a road or an ox leading a man down a road is a few ways it can be envisioned. It means also name wise symbolically a divine or heavenly thing with or leading a man down a road or making him from a trail is how Hebrews saw what it means to have earth (a mnemonic perhaps of the creation of man from earths dust and how the nature of cows, man, and trails of earthen substance interact and mimic this.
Очень хорошо рассказано! У нас в России есть тысячи древних сказок, на которых мы выросли. Часто из этих сказок ничего нельзя понять, так как они являются лишь отрывками древнего мифа. Но теперь значительная часть сюжетов стала понятна. Как, например, сказки "Бой на Калиновом мосту", "Бычий сын" и так далее, где три героя отправляются в путешествие, чтобы сразится с трёхголовым змеем. У меня всегда был вопрос, почему именно третий герой сражается с змеем, а два другие спят и вообще вроде бы не участвуют в битве? Оказывается, это потому, что первый - жрец, а второй - царь. Третий сражается, так как он воин и это его работа. И понятно теперь так же, почему именно третий сын - это сын коровы. И понятно, почему жреца сделали сыном кухарки, так как жрецы и вправду готовят еду для богов. Реально, русская сказка "Бычий сын" - это артефакт самого древнего мифа индоевропейцев.
May I ask if you would perhaps have any transcripts of the myth that you read in the video? I would love to use it as a translation exercise for my conlang, and would appreciate it if you were to send it, as I couldn't find any word-for-word ones on the internet.
I wrote that myself, and it will become part of a book I am writing and so I can't share it in its publishable form due to copyright. But you may be able to download the subtitles/captions, and translate that?
@@Crecganford Ahh alright, that's understandable. Thank you nonetheless, I really appreciate the content you put out, and I hope you'll have a wonderful day!
This is my second video of your series. I find them excellent: equally illuminating and very challenging. I'm interested to know if, as a academic, lecturer/researcher (?)(it would be good to have your bio linked to the site), you have dealt with accusations of 'orientalism', though understanding that the 'indo-european' focus might suggest something different? Understanding that this is inevitably always a very religio-political question of identity, are there equally lines of academic inquiry that looks at the influence of other dominant cultures on proto indo-european? The Hinduttva academics of the Ghent University platform, for me, seems to have very dubious claims ... are there other more robust examples?
Hi Tim, I have to keep my UA-cam channel separate from my day job at the University. However, if I leave (which I will one day in the next couple of years) I can update my bio and qualifications then. But I like being a little anonymous, people underestimate my knowledge and this allows more honest conversations to be had. And I am accused of many things, by people of many cultures, religions, and political belief. Most often of being associated with the very far right, due to what I teach, and normally by people who are not really aware of what I actually teach, which is Indo-European mythology. That is a problem, as sometimes it is hard and requires a lot of energy to have keep proving your innocence in these matters, and proving that you are trying to be as unbiased as possible. But in the end it keeps me balanced in the middle of the political spectrum, and keeps me reasonably pure in terms of my agendas too. I have a responsibility to ensure what I teach is accurate but also, as you say, illuminating. Thank you for watching, and your kind words.
@@Crecganford Thanks for your reply. An author with academic background myself, I understand perfectly your sentiments and reticence. Keep going with this youtube channel ... it's important and much appreciated. It gives me a clear window into and access to an otherwise obscure area of research ...
@@Crecganford maybe you could just put a small description in your channel bio that says , no this is not orientalism, nor aryanism, pour x, y, z reasons and state the goal of what you are teaching to help give a context to what you are saying. Because without context people can assume many things about your motivations, political beliefs, etc. Context is everything, if course without referencing your day Job.
What was the function of the compound deities in the Rigveda, where deities like Mitra-Varuna are identified as one? Did this represent an early development of monism?
This was adaptation due to social, environmental, and even technological changes. It is something that happened in many cultures; for example, in Greece, Zeus used to be named after the Indo-European Thunder God, and so was known as Zeus-Perkunas for a time.
I'm looking to do a live stream? When would be a good day/time to do this?
Sunday service?
My schedule is very free. You're based in the UK, right? I'm in Sweden so we should be very compatible time-wise.
Hey Jon. It turned out to be a busy week. If you are up for a chat tomorrow, send me a mail.
@@ancientbuilds3764 i haven't made it hope! I will be there Monday if you can o that.
@@Crecganford Can do, but it has to remain private.
I'm a classicist, so I'm mostly familiar with PIE linguistics and Graeco-Roman mythology, but your comment about how ritual was more important than faith for pagan religions suddenly enlightened my understanding of Greek and Roman beliefs. I already knew from literary sources that people didn't always believe in the gods in the most literal sense, certainly not in later periods, but as long as the rituals were performed, that faith wasn't really required. Which seems to me why accusations of impiety and such only happened when it would affect the rituals and actions. It also matches with some of the discussions that happened in the early centuries of Christianity since in pagan apologetic literature, we can see that they emphasise that the traditional rites should be performed because they have allowed Rome to be safe and powerful for centuries and certainly not done harm, rather than discussing faith (which the Christians do in their apologetic literature).
While some scepticism remains for some of the things you mention based on things I've learned from my professors, there is an incredible richness and depth of research in these videos and they form a very interesting supplement to knowledge I already have.
Thank you watching, and your taking the time to share your thoughts and learning. It is very much appreciated.
@@Crecganford I too appreciate your emphasis on the importance of practice over "faith", something I've noticed many Christian scholars overlook or ignore although Pagan writers are adamantly insistent must be performed. Religions have many similarities, yet are very different from one another. Thank you.
The Romans followed the rituals to the t. If it was incorrect they’d restart.
Wow, nice feedback when taken into the context of the video.
I've noticed a massive departure in religions from older ones - older religions like those of the helenistic era are, as you said, far more secular and ritualistic. I'd often laugh at how the Greeks seemed to have as much disdain for their own gods as their gods often had for them. Zues himself was such a pompous prick... there was no reason to really like him.
The Romans, in particular, were so ritualistic that it defined much of their culture to such a degree that without it? We probably wouldn't know as much about as we do now. Their penitent to record, legalize, legislate, and count EVERYTHING via a Diety ordained Standard Operating Procedure is what helped them be so organized and also so bureaucratic.
However younger religions like Islam and Christianity are far more prophetic and center themselves around Doomsday styled cult memetics. Much of that has to do with an older religion (Judiasm) having its ritual heart (the Temple) being shattered by foreigners of another old ritualistic religion (Romans). To make up for the Broken Covenant, Christianity reforms the Temple and becomes a redemption / revolutionary Faith. Islam is much the same way, a reinvention of an old message, although ritualistic needs is still required more in Islam than an in Christianity. Both new 'Faiths' have holistic goals; an end game if you will - where as the old religions don't. Sure the world may end according to the old religions as well but it's perceived as an inevitable death or rebirth, not as an ascension to a higher plane of being.
It's interesting how the later religions place more value on Faith. Even old Judiasm is very removed from the faith aspect. It focuses far more an actual deeds and following the law (ritualism) than it does blind faith.
This is still true of multiple modern religions. Japanese syncretic religion (a mishmash of Shinto, Buddhism, and Christianity) certainly values the *doing* of rituals above any coherent belief system.
The creation story reminds me of the creation story of silmarillion. Not in the relationship between entities, but in how it creates good and evil. Tolkien did an amazing job of recreating a natural religion
He did read some of the books I used to do this research, so there may well be similarities :)
@@Crecganford He was also a linguist and would've been well versed in ancient languages and their connection to mythology/religion
Tolkien was a practicing Catholic and also a linguist with a great interest in Germanic and Norse myths. The religion in Middle Earth was deliberately written so that “Eru” has the same attributes as the catholic/Jewish conception of God (and through that an Aristotelian conception). The similarity likely stems from that.
all of the stories of middle earth are tolkiens version of earths history. the Silmarillion is similar to this creation myth because that's where it was literally derived.
Tolkien's world doesn't really have religion in it.
Hi, good video. Purusha in Rigveda is also called Manu (Shraddhadeva Manu) and his twin brother is Yama. And get this, Manu is considered to have built a boat when warned by a fish that a great deluge is coming and thereby saved the 7 sages, so Manu is somehow associated as Noah and Gilgamesh. Yama in RigVeda is the first mortal and hence considered the lord of afterlife like hades.
Hence why humans are sometimes called Manavas.
@@manh9105 yeah but the similarity just doesn't seem coincidental, our creation story plausibly influenced the people who later on migrated deep into the European wetlands from eastern europe, Eastern Europe Caucuses are fairly easy to reach and have historically been places of multiethnic presence
@@manh9105 every manavantara has a a Manu. That's why it's called Manavantara to begin with.
@frzferdinand More commonly 'manushya', which is widely used as the word for humans in a lot of Indian languages.
@@manh9105
"Our Cosmology is Humungous"
Just like every other religion ever. LMAO
Much respect for you to even turn down sponsorships and for only doing these videos to educate people. That seems very rare to me. It is very appreciated!
Thank you for watching, and commenting, it all helps the channel :)
Hecate is often represented as a three-faced or three headed goddess, and she's just one of many forms of the maiden, mother, crone triple goddess in many cultures. The interesting thing about Hecate is that, although she's considered part of the Greek pantheon, she may have pre-Greek origins in Anatolia and she is traditionally associated with snakes.
Yes, she is definitely an earlier representation, and perhaps influences the shape of the serpent in older mythology, with the three-headed six-eyed serpent of NgWhi.
I think there’s something to Morrigan as well, another Goddess who has the faces of multiple gods
Hey guys m trying to learn about Hecate please tell me where can I find more info on her?
The Egyptian gods and the Greek gods are the same. Origin is Anatolia. Hecate might be the Befana of Italy. She starts young early in the year and becomes old. Anna Perenna was the name of the Etruscan godess.
@@peterlokin4098I think he's saying that she was one of the early snake deities that influenced where they would eventually land as a cultural artifact
Grateful that I found your channel
The sheer amount of hardwork you put into these.
And the respect you have for all cultures you discuss is staggering.
However, as an Indian, I want to point out that in Vedic Culture, Manus is *Manu* and Yemos or Ymir is *Yama*
Thank you
Latin Remus is also related to Yama and Ýmir through Yemos.
not the same manu we know, we know it through manusriti , the political book . i think here manu is more of a divine being, probably manus has directly become manav or manush is our languages
I can't believe Enma is Ymir. Insane honestly
I can't believe Enma is Ymir. Insane honestly
In 4 years of almost daily youtube use, you are UNDOUBTABLY one of the greatest channels I have discovered, I feel lucky, like I've struck gold, to have found your channel. You combine multiple modes of thought into holistic, engaging, intuitive understanding. For me, the greatest part of your comprehensive explanations is that they let us all appreciate the magnificent scope of our sacred, precious humanity. Listening to you talk is like watching a tapestry get woven together, as threads of ideas become one whole, beautiful masterpiece.
Thank you so much for taking the leap of faith and starting to make these videos, and thank you so much for continuing this great work, and putting so much valuable education out into the ether for us all, thank you Crecganford!!!
Thank you so much for your kind words, and for watching. Please feel free to ask questions or make suggestions, they are always appreciated.
You may enjoy listening to terence mckenna he passed in 2000 sadly but he had an amazing mind and ability with language
Thank you for the careful put subtitles and chapters. As someone who really wants to study all of that, it is a great help. 😊
I happened to run across this channel by mistake on Monday, and have spent my lunch break this entire week watching nothing but your episodes. Many thanks for such a thorough, engaging, and cerebral series!
Wow, thank you, and sorry if I’ve messed up your week a little! I hope you subscribe and watch more in the future.
@@Crecganford No apologies required at all. Extremely happy I found your channel! Already subscribed, but I do have one question, if you would allow. Would you suggest watching your videos from a chronological order in how you uploaded them, or watching them based on topics?
But thank you so much for taking the time to reply!
There are no mistakes. Only happy accidents.
I would rather watch your videos than watch the news!! You speak with an honest objectivity. You are such a wonderful alternative. Simple facts. Please keep this up. You ARE doing a wonderful service in these times of ego and stupidity.
Thanks for your kind words John
@teachers Thank you, I do teach, and therefore it would not be in my interest to make these dogmatic, or anything other than factual. So I appreciate people noticing this.
Yes, I really appreciate the level of objectivity.
@teachers same with the left wing Marxist nuts trying to turn everything into a class warfare.
@teachers yes, and the "white-pride" flavor of them is downright disturbing, too!
Love seeing motifs that translate into later cultures. I can't help but think of Seth and Osiris when manus is dismembering his brother. Also can't help but think of tiamat in regards to a serpent monster being the antagonist. Also tiamat again in the using of a divine body to create the heavens and the earth. Hearing these PIE myths really is like reading part of our cultures genome
Yes, the beginning myths of many cultures are very similar, and I will talk about these more in my next video. Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment.
@@Crecganford nah thank you man. I quickly becoming a very big fan of the channel.
This has to be the best video i have seen on my life. Life takes a decisive turn after this. Thank you so much.
Thank you for your kind words.
Don't ever stop. Yes, I have enjoyed it. Whatever you do. Keep doing it!!
Discord is great for community management. I'd definitely recommend that. I enjoy all your videos. Ty as always
You have a gift for storytelling and information sharing. Thank you so much for these videos !
And thank you for your kind words
I really enjoy your videos and am amazed by the depth of your exploration into these topics.
When I was three years old, I had a recurring dream. In this dream, I was floating in a boat in complete darkness and emptiness, accompanied by two humanoid beings. I was sitting in the middle of the boat between them while they rowed. One of the beings was red, and the other was blue. We didn’t speak, but I could somehow understand them mentally, and I thought of them as my parents. This dream repeated often.
A year later, I had a similar dream, but this time, instead of me, there was a cow sitting in the boat. When I woke up, I thought how strange and amusing it was, wondering what the cow was doing there. Ever since, I’ve been trying to understand the meaning of these dreams and have searched for various interpretations. That’s how I came across the work of Carl Gustav Jung, who developed the theory of the Collective Unconscious and interpreted dreams through mythology.
Based on your stories, if my assumptions are correct, these dreams seem to be an ancient inheritance from the collective unconscious. I believe the cow in my dream represented the first human, who gave birth to all other humans. That’s why, in many ancient cultures, the cow was considered sacred, much like humans. There’s a Russian folk tale called "Ivan, the Cow’s Son," where the main character is the son of a cow and eventually defeats a dragon. So, in a way, the ideal human is a direct descendant of the cow.
Additionally, you mentioned that in the beginning, there was only fire and ice, and then Manus and Yemo appeared. I believe they personified fire and ice, as one was red and the other was blue.
About the question at the end, I'm a youtube guy and I'm not used to other platforms, besides Reddit, but this is me personally.
A discord could be better/more organized than the previous ones, and people probably wouldn't mind downloading it to ask questions/read a discussion about a topic they are interested on. 🤔
Thank you for your thoughts, and for watching
I have to say I very much enjoy the focus on Indo-European history and comparative mythology that seems to be the mainstay of this channel.
This is the second video on the channel that I've watched and it has become apparent that it is very much worth subscribing, as I love history and all of the various sciences that flow from such, be they mythological, religious, cultural, or linguistic studies.
Thank you so much for your kinds words, and supporting the channel.
@@Crecganford It is I that must thank you for your contributions to the breadth of historical knowledge available on this platform.
I look forward to more presentations and discussions, hopefully for a long time to come.
PS: As a side-note, the subtitles are appreciated and I've referred to them quite a few times for clarity (especially when there were other noises in the room - such as my fan on these hot summer days).
Mythvision sent me here, and I'm glad for it!
You just got yourself a new sub 💪👍
Thank you!
Thanks!
In Gustave Flaubert's < Salammbô > novel, set in the aftermath of the first punic war, at Carthage, the priestess of Tanith narrates to the mercenaries the story of "Melkarth" (Hercules/Mythra ?), who did great deeds and adventures, such as climbing the highest mountains, fighting a great war against a rival kingdom... and slaying snake-woman (dragon/hydra ?), which is pretty much the same story, with differences, than those of Hercules, Siegfried or even Cadmos, Perseus, Jason and Gilgamesh. Could we say, judging by these elements, that Hercules's twelve tasks are a sort of "old" indo european myth about a king or a prince, that was transform, through some modifications ? And same question for the myth of Remus and Romulus.
It's fascinating to see how one story is rewritten and developped, complexified, through the passing time, and to one culture from another. I think even us, little people, can see some links and resemblances, but it's always fascinating, even after years and years of study, to see how one story passed through time and became a full mythology. ^^
Thank you for watching, and yes, I quote Herakles and Hercules, and others, in other Indo-European myths such as they follow the same dragon slaying story. When you start realising that so many stories and so related to so many others, then it really opens up a whole new realm of understanding about how our ancestors interacted with each other. My next video, out on Saturday, talks more about this and the dragon myths which may interest you.
Melqart is Marduk/Merodach, which was the influence to build Hercules/Heracles
I think they are so similar because they are all based on constellations. Stories were first told to keep track of seasons, but then the personifications turned them into stories of adventure.
The sumerians and Egyptians have similarities to these too, I think the creation myth is a lot more common in general points of narration elements and continuity than PIE and near east, but that's just the abrahahmic philosopher in me talking.
Rituals are extremely important, in abrahahmic terms they would call that law/Torah, to keep the physical world in harmony we must have actions of the universal laws/"works", to keep the spiritual world in harmony we must have faith, that is a very old esoteric concept.
Hey man I just found your videos I think your channels great, as far as keeping in touch with the fans im not sure how to help but I just wanted to say I think the way you're presenting everything is perfect. Glad to hear you're not taking funding, I wouldn't want anything to influence the way you can present this information. Keep up the good work, man, its helping me a lot and I think you're a great story teller
I have just started a Patreon, but it won’t effect my work, but it will allow me to get a few extra books every now and then. But I won’t ever take a sponsorship or advertising, that would spoil things. Anyway, thanks for watching and your kind words.
Thanks for the video. Now that I'm disabled, I watch lots of UA-cam quite a bit. I watch conservative non-fundamentalist Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Theravada Buddhist, secular History and Science, and mythology videos
Your channel falls nice into my sphere of interest, so I subscribed. I look forward to watching more of your videos.
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment. I always appreciate feedback like this and hope you enjoy my other videos.
Just found this channel. Good work. With your apparently deep understanding of linguistics, i think a video by you about the story of the tower of babel would be super interesting.
No one has suggested that before, that is an interesting idea. I shall add it to my To Do list, thank you for your suggestion.
Just found this older video. Apparently, you've been doing excellent work for a while now.
High, Just-as-High, and Third... From Gylfaginning, where Odin disguised as "Gangleri", describes three figures sitting upon thrones; 'High upon the lowest, Just-As-High on the mid-highest, and Third on the highest of the thrones.' The three-figure motif is replete across I-E culture! Love this.
Yes, I talk about that passage in my next video, showing the analogues in the actually texts, including the Prose Edda
hmmm this checks out Greek Zeus Poseidon and Hades Indian Vishnu Shiva and bradma roman Jupiter potoe and Neptune although I'm not sure about Celtic and Germanic.
This is such a good video. Thank you for your time, effort, research, and sharing your knowledge. You are a great teacher.
Thank you for your kind words, they are appreciated.
Newly discovered your channel and I have been rapt ever since. While listening to this episode I found the point of there being a bovine link. It made me think back to the goddess' depicted with a horned headdress such as Astarte and Hathor. Also the ritual over faith point really clicked a few things into my mind regarding older civilisations and how their societies were structured.
I'm really enjoying your channel and look forward to my evenings where I get to binge an episode or two.
Thank you so much for watching, and your kind words. They are very much appreciated.
One of my favourite new channels.
Thank you so much for making these videos and sharing your knowledge.
PS. Book reviews are a GREAT idea. There is so much bad stuff out there so it would save people some money knowing if the book is worth it and plus you could put Amazon links in the description so you could make a few quid too.
I still haven’t managed to get around to do a book review, but I will, so many people are asking for them. Leave it with me, and thanks for watching, and commenting
Ok ok, you got me. Subscribed. This is interesting, you read it well and are, seemingly, quite eloquently spoken and informative. Everything an educational-entertainment channel should be.
Thank you for watching, and your comments. I will try and answer as many as I can, although it is not always possible due to time constraints and work priorities.
This was a fantastic video. Thanks for including so much detail
And thank you for watching.
Yes please on the book reviews. And have you published those charts? I am in great need of them for my current research. Thank you.
I have been looking for content such as this forever, really enjoying your channel, thank you!
Thank you, and please if you have any questions ask them in the comments and I try to respond to as many as I can.
I love the idea of you providing book reviews in future videos! They could possibly also be delivered as curated top 5 or 10 pieces of literature that you recommend for learning more about a specific topic you cover in one of your other educational videos.
The UA-cam algorithm seems to favor top # lists and I think so many more people on this platform are hungry for more knowledge and insight that can be drawn from ancestral wisdom.
Yes, I will look into this, maybe as a supplementary video… I have so many books I probably could make a years worth of videos reviewing. I guess that means I guess that also means I should start sooner rather than later
You really do a great job of presenting these fascinating things in plain and understandable language.
With thanks from the other side of the world (assuming you are still in the UK).
Your calm and level style of presenting is even ore attractive as I only have time to listen just before bedtime.
Thank you, from the UK.
I am so happy that I stumbled across this video! As a language geek & big fan of Joseph Campbell, that was really interesting! I will be watching more of your videos.
I hope you enjoy more of them, thank you.
Thanks
And thank you for your support it is appreciated.
Thank you! I just bumped into this from the yt recommendations, and oh my did I find a treasure trove! This is exactly the stuff I want to learn more of, and your presentation hits me just right.
As for questions, I am a Finn, and interested in the origins of finnic peoples and myths, and I wondering how they fit into PIE? As far as I know, finnish has some connection to sanskrit, and by my understanding the myths and peoples originated somewhere on the western Ural, but where did they come from to there? We have an old god Perkele, whose name is still on every Finn's lips when they get pissed off or frustrated, who is a storm god derived from Perkunas, but the heroes of our national epic Kalevala are mostly poem-singers, and our word for hero, sankari, comes from swedish word sjungare meaning singer.
Thank you for watching, and the great comment. It is very much appreciated!
I can't say for sure if Finnish people or culture descended from Proto-Indo-European peoples or cultures, but I can say that the Finnish language is not at all Indo-European; it's part of a small and completely different group called Finno-Uguric.
How wonderful that you love to teach. I have found that there is a lot of junk on UA-cam presenting unsupported conformation biases. Great to see well researched pieces with 😅authentic information. I have been watching your videos along with a couple of others that treat with similar time frames that support the idea you can expand your information on the topics presented with confidence that the author of the video has done real work to get the available facts. Bravo.
I want your library! All of it! I am in the process of writing a SF/Fantasy series, and need to devise mythologies for at least two alien cultures. Understanding how such myths work will be a great help. Thank you for all your hard work.
I think there's a queue building for it so I'll leave you all to fight it out when I'm gone :) and please bear in mind that you have only seen about 10% of it! Good luck with your series, I think one of the biggest secrets to myths, is that not only are they built on truths, they are often built on the truths of other cultures before them. Which really gives some exciting plot possibilities of lost civilizations, and the civilizations their myths were based on.
Crecganford I would like to learn more about the mediterranean matriarchal societies and the 3-headed god you mention in this video. What would you recommend? And thank you so much! I really like your content!!
I'm slowly piecing together information about the 3 headed god. The matriarchal societies are somewhat harder to prove effectively, but there are many papers on them. I entered via Lincoln's work on dragon slaying but just search for the topic on your favourite academic site. If you prefer an actual suggestion just ask.
I am a contemporary Volva, German-American and Indigenous First Person pagan. Your videos are the best out on European mythology, art, craft, and practice. Your demeanor in your presenting is tactful, respectful, and poignant. Your ideas and discussion resonate well with me, friend.
Thank you
based
I'm very interested in getting some help from a volva, as I have not found any in Australia. Can I contact you in some way? ,thanks
@@redwolf7929 What is your Facebook if you don't mind sharing here? Would need to vet your Facebook and decide if I can send you a friend request and use messanger from there. You can share the profile link with me then delete it from the comments.
awesome. thank you
very much, i have been searching for this kind of content.
And thank you for your kind words, and for watching the video.
Thank you so much for all your hard work! I find it fascinating. I love folklore, mythology and, urban myths. So this is very much appreciated and enjoyed.
Thank you for your kind words, they are appreciated.
I have viewed this video as well as your other videos, at least a dozen times or so. Each time I view one again, I gleen something new. Hopefully your other viewers are having a similar experience. Keep up the great work!
Thank you.
Did you write your rendition of this reconstructed tale? If so amazing job. Would love to see a book one day of all these tales in a consecutive mythology.
Thank you for these videos. I cant get enough.
It's my pleasure.
Great presentation. I have a question about the composite of the myth you presented at the beginning,; there were a couple of things that are different both from versions you have in earlier videos, and things I have read.
*A)* In this version you say that the first twin _(*Manu)_ sacrifices the second twin _(*Yemo),_ - _to the chief diety/skyfather,_ who in return furnishes the materials/capabilities for constructing the cosmic order. In the original versions I have heard, and in your previous presentations it just appeared that _*Manu_ sacrifices _*Yemo,_ without dedication to any of the other deities, and constructs the cosmic order out of his body parts/essence (the actual offering the sacrifice to the sky/storm god only happening later with _*Trito_
Is there any particular reason why you went with this version? Is there good evidence for one or the other being the original / older variant?
*B)* In this version you say that _*Trito_ is the first created man, who then goes on to become the first warrior. In other versions, and previous videos, it is usually said that he is actually the last of the three cosmic brothers (hence "third"). Which conception is generally considered to be more accurate?
*C)* I guess kind of a corollary to the one above, but this seems to be a bit confused by the fact that _*Manu_ is also referred to as the first created man. Is there some meaningful distinction made between the "humanness "of the Divine Twins versus mwn after were typing in other words are they human progenitors, are they a distinct category, more akin to deities (and if so, is _*Trito_ considered to be "of a kind" to them, or in the "lesser" group)
Sorry if this is a bit of a long and involved question for a comments section, but my curiosity is getting the better of me.
I'm not sure I can easily answer this in the space a UA-cam comment provides, and in my next video I'll release on September 4th, I'll answer this fully as I retell the story with some "tweaks". But to answer... the other versions I have told were abridged for time purposes, but I wanted to give the idea of the myth. The gods had to be created, and they could not be created by the King or Man, and so like other Indo-European myths, I felt the creation of them in the cosmos fitted. Trito, by first man, I should say first not sovereign man, but it didn't quite have the flow of the story, but I'll clarify that in next week's retelling. And part c is complicated :) So for Yemo to be sacrificed to make the world he must be divine, as no human could provide enough material to create the world. But he also appears in many myths as "human", and so we just have to put this down to the flexibility of myth telling, and the same applies to Manus. But I will try and firm up the myth in the next video and provide a lot more explanation of why. And so I hope you can watch that. Many thanks for a great question or three :)
The theme of a person who is both a man and a god seems to continue or reappear in some versions of Christianity.
Diety
adjective
Good for a diet
Deity
noun
A god or goddess.
Fantastiskt! Det märkas att du älskar att undervisa. Tack!
Tack Tack!
Thank you! Great academic content! ❤
Thank you.
I have Anglo-Irish ancestors who obviously would have been influenced by Germanic beliefs and as such derivatives of the Proto-European mythology. You are right in saying that where there are cognates and similar motifs in creation myths you can safely say that they come from the same source. I live in Mindanao Philippines now and I have noticed the similarities in the creation myths of the Visayan and Tagalog people. The common thread is always a bird and bamboo from which the first man and woman emerge. There are variations beyond this but those key elements remain.
Now that is interesting, I love it when stories seem to link like that. Thank you for sharing.
@@Crecganford I think that just as cows were important to the Proto-Indo-European people, so bamboo was here in the Philippines. It was, and still often is, a major building material. Traditional houses called "Bahay Kubo" in Tagalog (Filipino), and "Payag" in Binisaya (Cebuano) were almost exclusively made from bamboo with roofs made from cogon grass or coconut palm leaves. Often the houses were raised on stilts, and entry was via a ladder made of bamboo. Workers around where I live often use bamboo ladders made in the traditional style. They have a higher tensile strength than steel or aluminum yet are light to carry. Of course, young bamboo shoots are part of the cuisine too. It makes sense that the first man and woman must have come from bamboo!
@@gaufrid1956 Celtic mythology is also Indo-European, so your ancestors would have been immersed in the Indo-European creation myths in both the Germanic form through the Germanic Anglo-Saxons, and the Celtic form through the Celtic Irish and Britons. Probably some Germanic Norse in there too.
@@willmosse3684 Sure! I remember my dad telling me that his side of the family also had some German ancestors. As well, my maternal grandfather's surname was "Bone", which was derived from the Norman French "Bonne", "Good". That obviously means that I had Norman ancestors as well.
@@gaufrid1956 Well, the Normans were descended from Danish Vikings, so you have the Norse Germanic branch there too…
Another wonderful video as usual
Thank you
I've just found your channel, what an absolute treasure!! 🔥🙏
Thank you.
I'm new to your channel and I'm am so impressed by the breadth of your knowledge. I'm a big fan of Joseph Campbell's work. I'd love to hear longer videos if you can. Like 50+ minutes or even longer. You're amazing!!
Thank you for your kind words.
Just discovered your channel, thank you very much for your work!!
And thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment.
I came, I watched, I subscribed.
Keep up the great content! 👍
Thank you!
This is so beautiful, thank you for sharing the stories and all the research that went into this. This feeds the soul
What’s really cool about the sacrifice of Yemo is… that’s kind of actually what happened. Shortly after the earth first formed, another smaller planet that we now call Theia crashed into it, half of Theia merging with the Earth, and half breaking off to form the moon. So if we consider Manus to be the earth and Yemo to be Theia, then it kind checks out. That’s kinda cool
That's a very interesting point. It's curious how we can correlate some of the oldest myths and still find bits and pieces that actually check out with nature, that were impossible for the peoples that first told them to knew about.
There's the case of the pacific north-west people who, tell the story of a recurring flood myth that was always preceded by an earthquake. Recent geologic and archeologic excavations confirm the stories, because of activity in the Cascadia Fault Zone there were tsunamis hitting the coasts every 200-500 years and the first one (the mythical one) corresponds with a mega Earthquake that happened 1700 years ago.
@@kernell__ There are also multiple European and Middle Eastern flood myths that seem to reflect various historical flood events, such as the filling of the Persian Gulf, the flooding of the Black Sea, a tsunami in the Indian Ocean caused by a meteor strike, etc. Some theorise they originated in ancient stories passed down through oral tradition, while others think that it could have come from humans finding shells and fossils of sea creatures far from the sea, and therefore concluding that the land must have flooded in ancient times.
And Just like that! Another creation myth was born.
@@BambiTrout Or. As human societies settled near water, rivers, lakes the coast. And as rivers tend to have seasonal floods. And as these vary according to all sorts of weather variations with some being disastrous. Oral history wont have been needed as they experienced floods regularly.
Those people didn’t know what we know now, so it’s purely coincidence that one of the abundance of creation myths appears to have some truth in it. The best way to describe these coincidences is that saying about a broken clock.
Hi John. I really love & appreciate your videos. I would recommend creating a Discord server. It has great tools for your purpose & is easy to set up & maintain. Thanks again for sharing your vast knowledge with us!
I may do this in July, I have a server setup, but I just won’t have the time to manage it until then.
Great video very informative thank you for your work.
I'm missing the Celtic myths. Do we not know enough of their mythology?
And I would prefer a subreddit where you can follow threads rather than a Discord.
I think you should start a patreon. Even if you don't do this for money, books aren't cheap. Use the money to buy books, custom art, etc. and give the excess to some worthy cause. There's no lack of worthy causes in the world.
We don't know too much about them, and people still argue who was really a Celt, it's a tricky subject. But will happily do a video or two in the future.
Reddit is cancer lmao
Welsh might be a first steps towards Celtic topics.
I second (different) threads. Apart from that moderation is probably key. Either to keep the dynamic going or to set the tone (and keep it).
There’s lot of good software to do a basic 1990’s forum. I’d sign up for one based on this since it’s so cool
@@Crecganford it would be interesting to explore the relationship between irish mythology and Indo-European mythology to see what common threads are woven between the two traditions.
I would like to know more about the origin and meaning of the snakes/dragons in the myths, and if there is a connection between the snakes of old norse myths et cetera and the dragon myths in Asia.
Yes, this is something I'm researching right now, and will make a video when I feel I have enough good evidence to support it. This is a really interesting topic, and goes back many thousands of years.
Snakes and serpents are associated with the earth, in the "war" between earth and sky.
@@Sinsteel we also see in some of these myths that the heavenly bull/slain serpent is owned by a chief goddess or the primordial serpent itself is a female, and we also know from non IE Europeans that they worshipped chiefly a chthonic female deity, for instance the Basque people still hold this memory.
It could be that this is an very old memory of two vastly distinct people groups in conflict, or in fact the IE springing forth from this original mythology and distinguishing themselves, like how the Israelites separated from the canaanites albeit far more drastically
Dragons in Eastern Asian mythologies are more generally spirits of the Earth
Look in Mesopotamia and India. Between Abraham and Brahma, thats where they all connect.
Just found your channel and I'm loving it!
Thank you!
So, by mentioning that Pūrūsa means man, you unlocked for me the enigma as to why Latin has virus for man instead of a word based on m-n. Virus and Purus are close and the P changes to fricative very easily (Phurus). Greatly appreciated!
In Sanskrit "Virya" literally means semen.
@@akalrove4834 well it seems our forefathers were pragmatic and named things according to their principal features. I keep saying that even English “woman” is made of “womb” & “man”. Which is genius and waking up to this would save many evil arguments of gender crusaders, because it kinda proves that both women and men are men (shifting the meaning of word “man” towards “human”), just one of them has a life giving womb (which was apparently much more important and precious to our predecessors).
In Sanksrit vira means hero, that seems like a more likely connection
@@rexsceleratorum1632 oh that is I guess a normal process: vira in the "man" meaning went its own way towards more specialized hero. But that is within one and the same ancestor language. Perhaps that is the reason why it changed to Purusa for just "man"? And the vira might have meant man originally in sanskrit ancestor language. But I guess the basic words like these are very well researched in the pre-IE language. So I don't want to search - for me a revelation is already the origin of Latin "virus".
@@Alarix246 Widely different forms such as purusha and vira seem unlikely to be from the same root unless one of the forms was later borrowed from a (rather distantly) related language. Both forms can't obviously obey the same set of sound laws.
12:08 matriarcal societies around the mediterranean. Is there any reliable sources on that ? While it is by no means impossible, the only things I've found so far are unconvincing rehashes of Bachofen, i.e. bold jumps from the strongly documented existence of fertility cults to rather flimsy assumption regarding political structures. I'd welcome references.
Yes, a valid challenge, so I state why infer this at ua-cam.com/video/Cgku-koMiLM/v-deo.html in the fact that serpents/dragons are predominantly female, and the serpent is based on the 3-headed god of the Indo-Mediterranean cultures (Bruce Lincoln). But there are a number of sources that would support the view of matriarchal societies existing Arthur Evans (The Earlier Religion of Greece in the Light of Cretan Discoveries), Marija Gimbutas (The Civilization of the Goddess: The World of Old Europe), or Joan Marler's “The Myth of Universal Patriarchy. A Critical Response". Now I'm a little with you as evidence isn't absolute in all circumstances, and I'm not saying all cultures were one way or the other, there was a mix which changed through time. But I hope that helps.
@@Crecganford So far, I've read J. Marler's paper (in response to Eller's). I strongly feel that both of them (and perhaps Gimbutas as well, but I've not read the archeomytology part) are trying to built a narrative of prehistoric social structures that serves a contemporary political agenda and criticize harshly narratives that don't. But I don't really see any solid argument for one narrative or the other (or they are too deeply buried in their political gangue).
For now, I'll stick with the conclusions of a french paper I've read yesterday : "We have a wealth of feminine representations. Some of them have supernatural features consistent with goddesses and it is obvious that goddesses had a central or prevalent role in these peoples' pantheons. But frankly, we don't have a clue about their social organization."
I'll try and read more.
@@udhessiudhessi8866 I agree there isn't enough evidence to say either way conclusively. Even saying PIE is matriarchal is based on a hyperthetical language. But to me the female dragon, the many venuses (especially pre EEF), gives me enough to say there was a significant chance there were matriarchal societies.
@@Crecganford Agreed. Although, if I gave you a hypothetical culture, whose representations of the gods were consistantly 1. a mother figure, often represented with one baby (never more), often breastfeeding it ; 2. the corpse of a man ; 3. less frequently, a non-descript bird in flight ; 4. a host of secondary figures carrying miscellaneus implements ; and absolutely no context, you might be led to wrong conclusions 🙂
@@udhessi3444 i was cracking up at “corpse of a man”. yes christianity is a death cult at best, with elements of a sungod infused
There is also a slavic god of thunder called Perun which sounds similar to Perkunas so there is probably a connection there. Also, to the minoans cattle were sacred animals. Is it possible that this worship developed from this Myth of Creation?? Amazing video and thank you for the subtitles! I'm really glad to have found your channel all your work is so interesting
I like your content, and I just subscribed, but the choppy audio is a little abrasive. Is there any way you can address that? I hope you continue to produce quality work like this!
Yes, of course, I'll always try to improve things. And thanks for watching and subscribing
Fantastic video @Creganford, I'm definitely a subscriber now and i will be taking the time to watch through all your videos. I am curious to know your review of that Myths+Legends of India book by Wliiam Radice that is behind you.
I've read a fair few stories from it, and enjoyed them, although I don't consider it an academic source, just for relaxation, similarly with the Russian and Near East book. Just a pleasant collection of stories, although illustrations are near non-existent, which is a shame considering how lovely the books look.
@@Crecganford thank you very for your input, so it is purely just a collection of stories with no discussion of the stories themselves. Ah that's okay about the pictures, would have nice though but it's not a deal breaker, it's just like a typical novel then I guess.
I'm curious now, what books would you recommend that you would consider an academic source in regards to myths and legends of the subcontinent
Ritual is key: it‘s interesting to note that that aspect has reverberated also through Vedic (in India) and Confucian (in China) teachings that seem to have defend the ‚traditional way of adhering to (forms of) rituals‘ against other, competing views.
Yes, I agree
Every day is a good day for Crecganford ❤
Thank you, this was a brilliant video! Definitely do more videos about PIE religion ❤
There will be more, I've been a bit distracted lately, but soon. Thank you for watching.
Loved watching and will definitely watch more
Thank you.
Its crazy how for like 12k years we are still doing remakes
It’s a remix!
Most informative video I have watched in forever!
Thank you for such a massive compliment, and thank you for watching.
Yes, there is a HUGE steppe component in "ProtoIndoEuropean" culture, but do not overlook the linguistic evidence for a forest and foothill origin of the people as well: terms for trees (e.g., birch, maple, ash, pines and other conifers, the many prunus species) and for animals (e.g., beaver, fox, wolf, deer, bear) have cognates in all the PIE language daughters.
Just came across your channel. Your way of presenting this material is very comprehensive. Thank you for your hard work and input. I have a question about the Dove Book, is there any English translation of this book and where to find it? Thank you in advance 👑👑🙏
I can't remember it exactly (and hopefully OP or others may already know what I'm speaking of), but I believe Tolkien said that to understand the history of a culture, one must look at their myths and fairy tales.
And as I was watching this video, I realised you've been demonstrating this in all your videos, but particularly in ones like this one. Even just seeing the cognates all over the map is exciting and eye-opening
Exactly! Most my videos will slowly come together the more I explain these things. Thank you so much for watching and appreciating my work :)
Very informative indeed - keep up the good work
Thank you
You're doing a great work!
Thank you
So are you!
this video is amazing!
Thank you.
Gemini twins checking in, thanks for the videos mate.
And thank you for watching
Brilliant channel. No meme nonsense and slow educational style
12000 year disaster cycle keeps wiping us out.. It's been 12000 years since the last one
18:30 old asiatic origin... where do I find this?? wikipedia article? 🤔
That used to be a theory, it is no longer supported academically. I think it was referenced by Lincoln in one of his papers, I'll see if I can find it.
Any chance the twins are a description of Something in the night sky like the hunter story?
And if so best estimation on when pls
@@briananderson2219 It's hard to tell for sure, my own belief at the moment is that this is a pure agricultural thought, and not linked to the heavens. So more to do with families and communities driving this.
@@briananderson2219 the only thing I can think of as being twins in the sky is the sun and moon. I don't know if ancient peoples saw them as the same but different, but unless there is missing stars or other astrological events I can't think of anything else that would be twined in the sky.
@@awesomeatronik I don't know what etymologists would say, but Mani sounds like Moon, as well as Man. And the moon would be the mortal twin, and also the bovine twin. I would guess a more ancient myth where a female sun kills her brother the moon, probably for incest. This idea is based on myths I have read over the years. Hey, I just had an idea that maybe Mithras kills that bull for some kind of sex crime, you know how bulls mate with women or carry them off in the ancient world. Well, this is getting very far from the content of the video.
@@watermelonlalala interestingly solar duties and divinity are tied to horses, so maybe horse vs cow cults.
Loving these videos, I’m not sure if you have came to a community forum yet as still working through your videos, however I am aware that other UA-camrs utilise discord as a suitable forum for open discussion and vote for future videos. I know this as I’m a member of a few UA-camrs discord servers and it appears to work for them. Keep up the good work.
I haven’t a discord yet as I just don’t have the time to manage it right now. But I’ll revisit the option again in a few months. Thanks for watching and taking the time to leave the comment.
Interesting stuff mate
Thank you, and thanks for watching :)
While listening to your list of connection regarding the twin i got a question which is unrelated, dyeus pater evolve through myth just like the twin, but why in some myth he has such a drastic change? Like norse who inherited more faithfully the creation myth yet he seem to disappear or become tyr? Or what about those mythologies where being have been added above him, like the three pure one or tri murti in vedic, what the origin of the three aspect?
Again sorry for the unrelated comment, and if videos have alrrady been made that can clarify, then i could just watch those.
These are great questions, and ones I just don't have the time or space here to reply to in any decent amount. Each culture had its own reason for change, normally relating to influence from leaders, religious or kingly, and so sometimes in response to migrations. I do touch on some of this in some of the videos, but perhaps one day do deep dives on the differences of each.
@@Crecganford thanks for the answer, then i'll just keep following your video, perhaps the answer will come on their own.
I must say Im a huge fan of the first man literally being named "Mannus" and the idea that "mankind" all descends from him
And Manus can be thought to mean earth, so all men came from the earth as opposed to the gods in the heavens. It's a very earthly and natural story to explain things.
In ancient Sanskrit (or 'Samskrt,' as the correct name goes) literature, the first man is (Svaayam-bhuva) Manu. (Svaayam-bhuva means 'self-originated,' so it is more like a title.) 'Manu' is still a very, very common name for men in India, same as 'Adam' in Judeo-Christian societies. The term for human beings, homo sapiens, in all Indian languages (both Indo-European and Dravidian) is 'Manushya.' The literal meaning of Manushya is 'descendants of Manu.'
Manu not Mannus. The word Manush comes from it (Mannus makes it sound Greek). Manu was also the source of much of the caste bigotry you see to this day, so hardly someone to look up to.
Yes, Manu is the PIE word, and the s was added as the myth headed into Europe. But Manu also turned into Odin, Romulus, and even Purusa is a form of him…
@@ColtraneTaylor 1. The spirit in which we (this channel and the community that follows it) explore ancient myths is to consider them a treasure of cultural information. It is not to find gods or role models to look up to. This latter spirit is exclusive to zealots both religious and anti-religious (the Marxist and critical theory types). The religious, of course, sincerely draw values and role models from scripture. The anti-religious are more interesting: they have an unhealthy obsession with the most uncharitable readings of ancient thought, and seem to suffer from the delusion that anybody with a remotely positive disposition towards ancient thought must draw all their values from it, and must therefore be old-fashioned and narrow-minded.
2. You're referring to the manu smrti, which indeed contains casteist and otherwise reprehensible teachings. It is a specific moral doctrine from a specific period of ancient India. And names in the Indian tradition are commonly repeated across periods, genres and schools of thought. So, the manu of manu smrti need have nothing whatsoever to do with the mythical manu cognate with the PIE manus.
Ta for this.
Have you considered the Cuchulainn story, and whether it holds remnants from the ancient beliefs?
I love The Tain and its links to Indo-European creation and warrior myths. And so yes, it is something I want to make a video about, although this may not be until early next year.
'Manu' is also a priest in Indian Vedic stories related to a Myth about great flood. And 'Manus' is also a word in Sanskrit and some Western Indian languages which means man. But I don't know if they are related to Creation Myth or not.
I was also watching to know the Indian myth, because I am an Indian. So it was a little dissatisfying that you didn't included it.
There are a number of flavours of creation myth within the Vedas and it would need at least two videos to cover them. But I'm happy to do this if there is demand.
@@Crecganford I recently watched your other video "Comparative Mythology for Indo-European creation myth", where you explained the myth related to Indian Vedas. I loved it. Although I would love to have a more detailed explanation, but I am not sure how many Indians will be interested.
Also it was my first time learning that there was such creation myth in Hinduism. Since they are kind of forgotten and replaced with more believable myths.
@@Crecganford yes make them bro, 2 vids atleast
Great show, thanks, and greetings from Skandinavia Denmark 🇩🇰..
The word for "earth/land" is "Erets".
The pictographs given is an OX HEAD, the head of a man, and a road.
The ox walking with a man down a road or an ox leading a man down a road is a few ways it can be envisioned.
It means also name wise symbolically a divine or heavenly thing with or leading a man down a road or making him from a trail is how Hebrews saw what it means to have earth (a mnemonic perhaps of the creation of man from earths dust and how the nature of cows, man, and trails of earthen substance interact and mimic this.
What interesting topics you deal with in this video and every time you say that if we want to delve into any of the topics, I think: Yes please!
Thank you, and I'm slowly delving into as many as I can.
Очень хорошо рассказано! У нас в России есть тысячи древних сказок, на которых мы выросли. Часто из этих сказок ничего нельзя понять, так как они являются лишь отрывками древнего мифа. Но теперь значительная часть сюжетов стала понятна. Как, например, сказки "Бой на Калиновом мосту", "Бычий сын" и так далее, где три героя отправляются в путешествие, чтобы сразится с трёхголовым змеем. У меня всегда был вопрос, почему именно третий герой сражается с змеем, а два другие спят и вообще вроде бы не участвуют в битве? Оказывается, это потому, что первый - жрец, а второй - царь. Третий сражается, так как он воин и это его работа. И понятно теперь так же, почему именно третий сын - это сын коровы. И понятно, почему жреца сделали сыном кухарки, так как жрецы и вправду готовят еду для богов. Реально, русская сказка "Бычий сын" - это артефакт самого древнего мифа индоевропейцев.
May I ask if you would perhaps have any transcripts of the myth that you read in the video? I would love to use it as a translation exercise for my conlang, and would appreciate it if you were to send it, as I couldn't find any word-for-word ones on the internet.
I wrote that myself, and it will become part of a book I am writing and so I can't share it in its publishable form due to copyright. But you may be able to download the subtitles/captions, and translate that?
@@Crecganford Ahh alright, that's understandable. Thank you nonetheless, I really appreciate the content you put out, and I hope you'll have a wonderful day!
This is my second video of your series. I find them excellent: equally illuminating and very challenging. I'm interested to know if, as a academic, lecturer/researcher (?)(it would be good to have your bio linked to the site), you have dealt with accusations of 'orientalism', though understanding that the 'indo-european' focus might suggest something different? Understanding that this is inevitably always a very religio-political question of identity, are there equally lines of academic inquiry that looks at the influence of other dominant cultures on proto indo-european? The Hinduttva academics of the Ghent University platform, for me, seems to have very dubious claims ... are there other more robust examples?
Hi Tim, I have to keep my UA-cam channel separate from my day job at the University. However, if I leave (which I will one day in the next couple of years) I can update my bio and qualifications then. But I like being a little anonymous, people underestimate my knowledge and this allows more honest conversations to be had.
And I am accused of many things, by people of many cultures, religions, and political belief. Most often of being associated with the very far right, due to what I teach, and normally by people who are not really aware of what I actually teach, which is Indo-European mythology. That is a problem, as sometimes it is hard and requires a lot of energy to have keep proving your innocence in these matters, and proving that you are trying to be as unbiased as possible. But in the end it keeps me balanced in the middle of the political spectrum, and keeps me reasonably pure in terms of my agendas too. I have a responsibility to ensure what I teach is accurate but also, as you say, illuminating.
Thank you for watching, and your kind words.
@@Crecganford Thanks for your reply. An author with academic background myself, I understand perfectly your sentiments and reticence. Keep going with this youtube channel ... it's important and much appreciated. It gives me a clear window into and access to an otherwise obscure area of research ...
@@Crecganford maybe you could just put a small description in your channel bio that says , no this is not orientalism, nor aryanism, pour x, y, z reasons and state the goal of what you are teaching to help give a context to what you are saying. Because without context people can assume many things about your motivations, political beliefs, etc. Context is everything, if course without referencing your day Job.
What was the function of the compound deities in the Rigveda, where deities like Mitra-Varuna are identified as one? Did this represent an early development of monism?
This was adaptation due to social, environmental, and even technological changes. It is something that happened in many cultures; for example, in Greece, Zeus used to be named after the Indo-European Thunder God, and so was known as Zeus-Perkunas for a time.