The Battle of Orchomenos, 85 BC ⚔️ | Concluding the First Mithridatic War
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- Опубліковано 9 гру 2021
- The 85 BC Battle of Orchomenos was the epic climax of the First Mithridatic War. Roman commander Lucius Cornelius Sulla once again faced Pontic general Archelaus. Outnumbered at least 4 to 1, Sulla set up camp in a valley with swamps in his back and mountains surrounding any potential escape route.
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The content of this video covers events, people or concepts via a lecture-style presentation that is educational and historical in nature. Every video is original content by House of History. The events relating to conflict in this video are portrayed in their historical context without either value judgment or an ideological message attached to it. There is no intent to shock, upset or disgust. The goal of my channel is to make interesting lecture-style videos, no more, no less.
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Sources:
Fox, Robin Lane. The classical world: An epic history of Greece and Rome. Penguin UK, 2006.
Kershaw, Stephen P. A Brief History of the Roman Empire. Hachette UK, 2013.
Levick, Barbara M. "Sulla's March on Rome in 88 BC." Historia: Zeitschrift für Alte Geschichte H. 4 (1982): 503-508.
Mayor, Adrienne. The poison king. Princeton University Press, 2009.
Matyszak, Philip. The Enemies of Rome: From Hannibal to Attila the Hun. Thames & Hudson, 2013.
Matyszak, Philip. Mithridates the Great: Rome's indomitable enemy. Pen and Sword, 2009.
Matyszak, Philip. The Roman Empire. Oneworld Publications, 2014.
Singor, H. W., and F. G. Naerebout. Oudheid. Ambo| Anthos, 2011.
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" Then I raised a second Army... It sank into the swamp."
Interesting, Sulla won all these wars against odds so brilliantly, for Pompey to come a decade later and claim victory against semi non existing opposition. The more I read about Pompey the more it looks like his best talent was taking credit for other peoples work, just like what he did earlier with Crassus and the slave revolt.
His defeat of the pirates was also not in a small part due to an officer acting in his stead.
Been saying this but no one listens. Pompey the Not so Great 👎🏽
It had been Sulla that nicknamed Pompey "the Great", he was one of the very few men that could openly dissent with him without risking his life (and it was his intercession that saved Caesar's life from Sulla's purges).
Also super-skilled Sulla had to be saved by Crassus, the future fool of Charrae, at the battle of Colline Gate. It was different to fight against the, by then, obsolete Pontic formations than against people that knew and used Roman tactics.
Yep, still also waiting for Pompey's great achievements.
@@Mikko088 He did conquer lands in Asia too, I suspect he was very popular with his men, which in turn made them reinforce his status back in Rome, as opposed to being depicted as someone leaning on the work of others.
Sulla must have been a great inspiration for other roman commanders following him.
in a lotta ways lmao
Eager to see your coverage of this one! I can report that my trip to Orchomenos and Chaeronea last week went great, nice and quiet remote villages with exactly zero tourists. Sulla's trophies and the Lion of Chaeronea was amazing to see in-person :)
That sounds great, I am glad you enjoyed it!
That’s great you got to go there..was it nice and peaceful
Scythed chariots are starting to seem like a bad idea
It was already a bad idea by the time of Alexander when Darius used chariots against the phalanx in the battle of Gaugamela. Guess what, the phalanx just opened ranks and they bypassed them harmlessly. The Pontics didn't learn so well from the Greeks...
Next time, install hand-brakes on those chariots
Elephants and scythed chariots... Always look like they make more harm than good. To the point it's necessary to ask, why the bad guys - (sorry, the opponents of the "west" :P) kept using them again and again.
Could be likely that we read the account of the only battles where they failed, but they were effective in countless others - where the opposition was not so disciplined, and in these other cases they wiped out the enemy soldiers.
@@sethheristal9561 Elephants and chariots are actually useful... IF you face an en my who doesn't know how to deal with them
@@sethheristal9561 the romans were far from the only literate people...
“They sealed the peace of Dardanus with a kiss”
Should’ve sealed every peace like that.
Like you Sire, in Tilsit, with Alexander.
Man, I really love your content. I comment extremely rarely, but your videos are definitely worth a few words. So clear and simple yet with the right amount of detail and background! The interesting thing is that in this day and age, while the tactics and weapons may differ, the reasons for people's actions are not so different. The quest for power. The desire for recognition. Injured vanity. What YOU do is amazing and must be a lot of work. Thank you for portraying the pivotal moments and interesting developments in the story in such a captivating way!
Thank you very much for the kind words!
The history of Mithridates the Great is overlooked.thanks
Mithradates the Great was founder of the Arsacid dynasty. Youre mixing him up with this Mithradates vi also known as Eupator.
Both Mithridates VI Eupator and Mithridates I of Parthia are known as 'the Great.'
@@HoH Yeah both Iranic
I'm loving this series
Yes at first I was lukewarm because it had already been done by K&G but this is starting to outshine as a superior product.
It's always crazy to see a general that has a large contingent of cavalry and or chariots yet has no idea how to effectively use them or terrain.
Great video, great explanation of the battle and forces behind it. Animations are great too, really help me visualize the battle and movement of combatants. Excellent work!
For my 18th birthday, myself and about 10 buddies got kitted out to play paintball at a nearby range. We made up one team, and the other team had a bunch of kids AND two Marine corps veterans.
I think you can guess the results of the matches. I don't think those two marines got hit the whole day. We could have doubled the number of people on our team and the outcome would have still been the same. It was a valuable, if humbling lesson that a comparatively few number of trained professionals are MUCH more dangerous then a rabble of amateurs.
The best books about Sulla are Definitely the Masters of Rome series by Colleen McCullough. Grass Crown is my particular Favourite.
Sulla deserves more credit for his amazing talents on the battlefield. Unlike Caesar, he had a peaceful death. Just saying.
That's because instead of clemency, Sulla massacred anyone who could be a threat.
Excellent Video as always continue with the second and third mithridatic wars as well
That's the plan!
@@HoH nice
Sulla is fascinating, thank you for bringing this to life.
Fine quality content. Thank you.
No colorful exaggeration no bs found my favorite history channel love from Tennessee
Thanks Kaleb, much appreciated!
Awesome video! Thank you
Simply, thank you. These videos are amazing.
Super coverage and some good details shared post war.
Really nice video. I find it hard to understand why Archelaus sent out his cavalry and chariots unsupported to attack Sulla. I think Archelaus distrusted the ability of his infantry to engage the Roman legionaries. The fact that they could not reform after the chariots stampeded through them is telling. They must have been very raw troops with little motivation to fight.
Imho, the Pontic forces could EASILY have won this engagement by simply digging a deep, wide trench across the mouth of what looks very similar to me to be essentially a "box canyon," and erecting a wall on their side of the trench....
#Easiest Circumvalation EVER...!!😆
Too nice video about several episodes of a war between Rome & methradatic..clearly explained units mobility in excellent situations 👏 👌 👍 😀
This is becoming a good habit. Another excellent presentation of the Battle of Orchomenos in the Mithridatic War. Sulla by this time had a wide range of experience in military matters. He'd one time commanded Marius's cavalry & had been involved in the Jugurtha War, The Cimbrian war & Roman Social War. But added to his military skill was his skill as a Politician..
Thank you for the kind words, Michael. I am currently working on the First Battle of Cirta during the Jugurthine War. In this battle, Sulla was still Marius' deputy. It was his baptism of fire, so to speak.
I swear I will never understand why they kept using those stupid scythe chariots. I can't remember a single instance where those things did a damn bit of good.
Truth!! Why is it that the side that utilizes them are the ONLY ones that can't seem to defend against them? 😂
Its kinda like the same reason why all of these big historical battles you see Elephants attack their own army or be masterfully disabled from the fight.
Against the forces these armies are used to fighting (Not the Romans), these tools are fantastic and single handedly win you battles with few casualties (big deal on that part). The Romans consistently win these engagements because the Roman army was insanely flexible and adaptive.
I'd compare it to something like World War 1, outdated tactics being used initially while its a terrible idea because it just fits with conventional wisdom.
Additionally, the Roman system was hard to mimic, the Seleucids tried but were crushed quite easily regardless.
I am currently researching a battle where the elephants tripped, destroying their own infantry and losing a battle they were winning initially.
@@HoH I think it’s the mad dictator factor. Mithradates was basically a mad dictator. Buuuut scythe chariots looked good on parades back home in Pontus. Sort of like Saddam Hussein and his HUUUUGGGEE tank fleet. It looked awesome on parade but it was essentially mostly obsolete and useless cannon fodder.
dont underrest the power of chariots! But they where only good on even ground with no rocks . Alexander was always looking for a good battle ground where darius couldend use his chariots.
Love this channel
AWESOME AWESOME VID!!!
Archelaus tactics were quite interesting you could say he was a cavarly commander that knew to use hammer and anvil
Man what a battle..I always try an imagine what a battle field looked like the following day..and what happened at night fall ..was it quiet or noisy or what for the victors..must have had a terrible stench hanging
Could you do world wide battles in time order and types of fighting.
Who evolved the fastest and what changed things .
This video was a nice one House of History. I have a question: when you started putting out history content did you have people helping you make these video's or were you doing it alone? I'm asking because I've been considering doing the same thing.
I do everything myself. From research to presentation to editing.
@@HoH---I see. Thanks for telling me.
@@HoH---Were you worried about what would happen after you started? Because I've been worried. More than I care to admit.
NEED MORE
The key to Sulla's successes was that he won both Strategic and Tactical Victories. Julius Caesar did the same things.
Both won by leading at the front in battle and not from behind and both used their Legion's battle skills and also their skills with their shovels in digging defensive trenches, forts and wooden walls.
Sulla could have had the young Caesar executed as he did with hundreds of supporters of his Arch Enemy Marius but since Caesar's relatives were close supporters of Sulla, he did not. But Sulla did say of Caesar, "I see many Mariuses in him".
The trouble with Mithidrates was that he thought he was the next Alexander the Great. But unlike, Alexander, he never led his own troops in battle.
Both Caesar and Sulla followed the traditional Roman use of leading from the rear. That way they had a complete view of the battlefiend and could react to the events. That had been a key of the successes of the Romans over the Ellenistic armies, that instead, following Alexander's example, were usually led from the front.
Only when the situation was dire and a sector of the front was faltering, sometimes, the Roman commanders used the "trick" of standing amongst their men and "menacing" them to fight. For a Roman soldier it was a shame to force the commander to fight by himself, so that usually had the effect of them doubling and tripling their efforts, to be "in front" of the commander and make him lead from the rear, where it was his place.
It had been Pompey's intercession that saved Caesar. Pompey was one of the very few men in Rome that could stand against Sulla without risking his own life. Sulla finally agreed to spare Caesar, but told Pompey he was doing a mistake "I see many Mariuses in this man".
Epic!
Liked, Subbed and Commented
Welcome aboard!
9:06 - "both cavlaries"
Why were the Romans so dominant on the second day?? After all, they had a big numerical disadvantage! What was the trick? The flank attack of the cavalary?
It seems very likely that Caesar studied both Sulla and Alexander's tactics and troop philosophy taking the very best from each of these battlefield tactician generals.
Good commanders put themselves in a rear battlefield position from which to act and react to battlefield evolution through signals and, or trumpet blasts. The truly great generals knew how to command on the fly, in real time without panicking. The truly outstanding historically unequalled generals had a sense for perfect timing knowing when to commit reserves, and understanding the specific way to utilize specialised elite soldiers such as mounted and archers.
Use the archers and cavalry in unison with perfect timing is critical because if you send in the mounted units too soon or too late the archers will be wiped out and horses routed!
Caesar was the very best of the very best in my humble opinion. If I could have Caesar or Alexander, both in their own historical time going up against any of the "enemies" elite generals, it would be and easy selection, Caesar!!!
Reading how Caesar utilized his military to their maximum capabilities was exhilarating! Caesar was the first commander to recognize the importance of having a highly trained, highly skilled corp of engineers!!
One source stated -
"Caesar did not owe his successes to striking tactical innovations, but to a remarkable ability to use the methods and resources to hand. His key qualities were his decisiveness, a readiness to cast caution aside, and his excellent relationship with his troops"
I someone told me to refer to a war or specific battle which would give someone a solid grasp about the kind of military genius Caesar was I would immediately point them to the battle/siege of Alesia where we can see Caesar utilizing his resources to their maximum potential.
Caesar used his highly trained and highly skilled soldiers as an expert corp of engineers, as Caesar was the first commander to understand, train and utilize his "engineer corps" to tremendous effect!!
Caesar ordered his men to erect a series of extensive fortifications, including two walls encircling the city and, if memory serves me right, they encompassed a total of 16 or 17 miles to keep the defenders in and potential reinforcements out. Vercingetorix’s resistance and eventual surrender marked the final major military engagement of the Gallic Wars, securing Roman authority over Gaul in its entirety!!
Can you imagine Vercingetorix’s, an effective commander in his own right, seeing tens of thousands of Roman soldiers busy at work with this amazing project which they knew spelled their doom, as no food or supplies would be coming and no help would be able to break through these two fortified booby trapped works. It must have just sucked all the oxygen out of their lungs!!
It got so bad that the Galic "prisoners" sent their women, elderly and children out hoping Caesar would feed them and give them water, but he was not taking them, nor did Vercingetorix take them back as they had nothing to feed them with and not a drop of water!!
So, the trapped Galic army had to watch and hear their loved ones cries of hunger and thirst slowly fade away until there was no more sound at all. That had to be crushing. I tend to think I would have thrown in the towel knowing I was going to become a circus animal paraded on a chain in front of Romans for the benefit of Caesar's ego and power, but also knowing my family would be spared.
How could anyone see and hear that? Because in the end, after a huge "rescue" army turned up and failed at breaking Vercingetorix’s men out, the end result was the same, only the families were dead also. Those were harsh times where most every army engaged in savaging/pillaging/rape/murder of men, women, elderly and children including the Romans of course!
It was often "payment" for soldiers from lower ranks in particular to allow them to ravage the enemies' villages where they could keep whatever they could find/steal including taking slaves to sell at market when they arrived in an allied city or village. It was just a really brutal sign of the times.
Vercingetorix’s resistance and eventual surrender marked the final major military engagement of the Gallic Wars, securing Roman authority over Gaul in its entirety.
There's no doubt in my humble yet 100% completely without any shadow of doubt opinion, Caesar was the greatest GOAT of all time!!
For me, Patton was one of the great tank commanders, but he falls short of being one of my battlefield tacticians for the fact that he allowed his personal feelings to get in the way of making sound military decisions sometimes like the time he diverted a fair sized group of tanks and troops to assault a concentration camp that his son in law was in, and his son in law was almost killed, shot in the ass and the whole operation was a failure risking multiple lives for an extremely low possible benefit near the end of the war!!
Still, I'd take Patton over Monty or Bragg every time!!
Who do YOU good folks pick for top commander? Historical? Modern?
Jack ~'()'~
Hey, great video, i really enjoeyd it. Just a quick tip. When you see a greek word written with "ch" this is not pronounced "ts" for example Chalkis = Tsalkis, but it is pronounced "h". So it it Chalkis = Halkis or Chaeronea = Haeronea. 😁
Thanks for the tip. If it wasn't for your comment I probably would not have found out. I will keep it in mind.
It's surly not complete relation. There is f.e. no mention about big crisis in Roman ranks: "When Sulla's legions broke before the hosts of Mithridates led by Archelaus, Sulla advanced with drawn sword into the first line and, addressing his troops, told them, in case anybody asked where they had left their general, to answer: "Fighting in Boeotia." Shamed by these words, they followed him to a man." (Frontinus, Strategamata, II, 8, 12).
Can you make battle of nineveh pleasee
Which one? The battle of Ninaveh that began the classical age or the one that ended it. Both took place on the same site ironically.
@@dariusghodsi2570 byzantine-sasaniad war 627 ad
@@darkpiece1839 well thats going to take some hell tons of context to lead up to. I suggest maybe starting with first contact between iran and rome at battle of carrhae. Or at least begin with early Sasanian wars.
@@dariusghodsi2570 agreed
Thanks for the suggestion, I've added it to the (ever-expanding) list of topics I'd like to cover.
This should have a warning for ear/headphone users those S’s really are sharp 😂
Sulla was so OP
Virgin Jealous Senate < Chad Sulla
I hope I live to see the day a full realistic Roman General simulator is made for VR. Like in 40-50 years. Where you can stand on a field like this as Sulla or Marius or Caesar and make decisions, inspire your troops, look out onto the plain and decide how you're going to flank them etc. 10:52 Like just imagine being part of a mass of 50k plus troops and you're being PUSHED back, as a group, towards a marsh/river. Horrifying shit.
Be careful what you wish for. VR is getting too much. Try picking up a real sword and practicing in your backyard.
1-get friends
2-get sticks
3-enjoy your roman similation
@@dragooll2023 Haha nah I demand a remaster!
@@dariusghodsi2570 Yeah, I had to play Half Life Alyx in about 50 - 15 minute sittings. All I could do at a time before body would give out. Bit too much. I'm sure that'll all get better though as time goes on. Like I said, 40-50 years. I just want the experience of being a Roman general commanding an army. Not playing swords and dress up in my backyard. Ha.
STEPHEN THE GREAT!!!!!!!!
Be great if you would do the Illyrian Wars.
Great suggestion, thanks!
cool
I don't get it...how could chariots inflict such a damage to a phalanx formation?
The spears should have stopped them 3-4 meters before the first line...🤔
Caesars battle at Ilerda was a tricky one for the Master Warrior during the civil war as Pompey assembled in the East . I've seen a couple vids on Ilerda but it seems, as Book 9 of The Landmark Julius Caesar (editors Raaflaub and Strassler, one of an amazing series I am now collecting) seems to contain much more. Your take on that battle?
This is becomming the best history channel. Please try to stick with classical period please! Waiting on some roman persian battles, the most neglected subject of all time. Quite literally the elephant in the room
Thanks for the kind words Darius! I am currently working on Arminius' battles after the Teutoburg ambush and the Jugurthine War. I will begin reading about the Roman-Persian wars, I'd love to delve into the subject.
@@HoH sounds interesting! Armenius wars has recently gotten a lot of attention covered by k&g and invicta as im sure youve seen, but still looking forward to your take on it. But Jugurtha will be very interesting as i havent seen it spotlighted on any channel at all yet. Often Marius is mentioned in context of his civil wars with Sulla but hardly any of his glorius contributions are attested to in any kind of detail. His cimbrian war would be a good one too.
I haven't seen their videos, I'll have a look. The reason I covered it is because I finished Barbarians a few weeks ago and wanted to know what happened next. 😉
@@HoH Glad to hear! I recommend Gareth C. Sampson, The Defeat of Rome: Crassus, Carrhae, and the Invasion of the East
@@dariusghodsi2570 Awesome, that's exactly the type of recommendations I like!
7:18 The Roman infantry was disciplined enough to open ranks when the Roman chariots approached?
Oops, that's obviously supposed to be Pontic chariots.😅
@@HoH No worries, I just thought that someone from the channel should know about the mistake to prevent it from happening again. Thanks
@@dimitriperez4721 It's all my own work so mistakes do slip in sometimes unfortunately. Thanks for keeping me sharp!
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Why did he give Sulla battle then? I would have harassed him with my cavalry until he either went back to Rome, or was forced to battle the other Roman army
I know that Sulla must have been an outstanding commander and all ..but man... these pontic generals and soldiers do seem to be easily defeatable fools
Ellenistic armies could compete with the Roman conscript Army before Hannibal (Pyrrhic wars) were easily defeated by the conscript army after the clash with Hannibal improved the Roman tactics (Macedonian wars), and were just a joke for the professional Roman army after the Marian reform.
A comment to appease our algorithmic overlords
Incredible cunning, determination. How and what afforded the the Romans such amazing leadership and consistent performance for so long?
Just doesn't seem natural. Hail ! To the mighty Romans. A testament to mankind and his fortitude and comradary towards one another. 👍
Please do a video on Sulla. While Richard Harris is a fine actor, it doesn't give the whole history of Sulla. Thx.
lol how come most of current history channels have the same animation?
He said Roman chariots
The stakes were in romes favor.
Thank you so much for sharing with me this video.
The Bible foretells a time when peace will be achieved not through mankind. Psalm 46:9 says regarding the Creator, Jehovah God:
“He is making wars to cease to the extremity of the earth.”
Jehovah God will accomplish true peace by means of his Kingdom, for which many sincere people have repeatedly prayed Matthew 6:9, 10:
"Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth."
His Kingdom is not an elusive condition of the heart; it is a real government through which God will establish peace from one end of the earth to the other. The inspired prophet Isaiah foretold that subjects of that government will not “learn war anymore.” (Isaiah 2:4) By means of a worldwide educational program, people will learn to live in peace and thus “beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears.”
Archelaus proved to be incompetent and unlucky. Sulla proved to be the opposite on both.
Archelaus perform well in Asia and in Greece before the arrival of Sulla. He was a good and capable commander, Sulla was simply superior in every regard.
Can you do a feature video about the Philippines under Ferdinand Marcos from 1965 to 1986
Rome was so fortunate to face such unskilled hellenistic generals. vor maybe battle accaunts are just roman propaganda made way after the events
indeed its all roman propoganda, also ceasars books its all propoganda to make himself immortal . If you read books of history story tellers, you must think the truth is sommewhere between. So I agreed 100% what youre telling.
nb
nm
Barbarian amateurs!
Archelaus was a bad general xD, he could throw wave after wave and exhaust Romans to death
exaggerating with the numbers,like all history:),only to put romans in a good place