The Battle of Leuctra, 371 BC ⚔️ How did Sparta lose its military power?
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
- Sparta was an ancient Greek city-state located in the region of Laconia, in the Peloponnese. It was known for its military prowess, as its soldiers were considered to be among the best in the ancient world.
Sparta's power began to decline after a series of military defeats, particularly at the hands of the Thebans and their leader, Epaminondas. These defeats weakened Sparta's military dominance and allowed other city-states, such as Thebes and Athens, to become more powerful.
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🧾 Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
1:12 Sparta's decline
6:00 The Battle of Leuctra
10:49 Aftermath
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When Epaminondas was about to die in the battlefield of Mantinea, his soldiers told him "pity you have no children to heritage you" and Epaminondas answered "i have two daughters, Leuctra and Mantinea".
i have two immortal daughters
And they were two beauties!
Epaminondas was a military genius and also a skilled and capable politician.
+ phillip the second, Alexander the great's father studied tactics from Epaminondas since he was raised in Thebes as prisoner -guarantee (sorry my English is not my main language)
@@monsteras90 Correct. Interestingly, the tactics Philip used at the battle of Charonea were very similar to the battle of leuctra. Epaminondas and Pelopidas must have mentored him well.
@@TheStrategos392 Cheronea is 10 kilometers from where i live btw. There is a huge monument of a lion there that macedonians eraised to honour the sacred band that fought to the last man and hold their ground to the end.
@@monsteras90 so in English “prisoner-guarantee” is “hostage,” but “political prisoner” or “political hostage” would also work for people you suspect aren’t familiar with that particular custom. You also would have wanted to say “Thebes as a prisoner.” Missed an “a,” not a big mistake.
Pretty solid grasp, I don’t even know a second language so you’re at least one up on me.
@@TheStrategos392 yea I didn't know anything about him before this video. And after watching, I read about him. He invented the Refused Flank deployment! Lol I use that strategy nearly everytime I play a war game ( warhammer 40k & Necromunda). It works everytime too! So long as my dice rolls hold average and my dumbass doesn't move the models to a position that contradicts the strategy lol.
Epaminondas needs no children for his legacy are the victories he delivered Thebes. What a legend and pioneer.
Nice video. In 371 B.C., Sparta was already a weakened power, unable to field as many spartiates as earlier years. Thus, most of their army consisted of helots or other unwilling allied troops. The outnumbered Thebans gambled that if they managed to rout the spartiates from the field, the rest of the Spartan army would be unwilling to fight, as they were not the most willing of participants anyway. The Thebans, therefore, put "all their eggs in one basket", gambling everything on crushing the Spartan right. As it turned out, the Thebans were correct; they werent't really fighting an army of some 11.000 hoplites, but actually an army of some 1.000 Spartans. The rest left the field as soon as they saw their oppressive masters defeated.
@friendlyTroll (laughs)
Sparta would not use helots in its army.... the perioikoi possibly, but never helots. The Spartan state had virtually enslaved the population of Messenia at the end of the 7th century BC (these were the helots). The group was brutally oppressed by the Spartan homoioi (or Equals), a practice which offended the other Greek city states. Epaminondas, having disrupted Spartan power at Leuctra and at 2nd Mantinea did much to revive the Messenian state which contributed to the eventual demise of Spartan society.
@@Lonigo77 From Britannica: "During wartime helots attended their masters on campaign and served as light-armed troops and sometimes also as rowers in the fleet."
And the Wiki on the Battle of Plataea: "According to Herodotus, the Spartans sent 45,000 men - 5,000 Spartiates (full citizen soldiers), 5,000 other Lacodaemonian hoplites (perioeci) and 35,000 helots (seven per Spartiate).[33] "
@@friendlytroll um, how old are you? You were there? You forget the VICTORS record history, not the defeated.
That's a trope. And not a true one. Sparta won the Peloponnesian War, but it was an Athenian who wrote the history. Losers always write their versions of history.
I always forget that the Spartans had two simultaneously reigning Kings. Such an interesting system.
There are many similarities between spartan and roman government system.
They were a sort of Prime Minister, the real Commanders were called "Efori". They decided to stop the battle that the spartans wanted to continue
Absolutely love the Greek and Persian wars, the Athenian empire had so much promise. Keep up the great work 👍
Their world dreams died at the invasion and defeat at Syracuse 414BC …..
@@RoyalZarak Actually, they made a comeback until their arrogance again caused a later downfall.
@@charleshimes1634 yes the prob for the athenians was not the money but how they used them for their own good life.
Every time Sparta gets beaten up i rejoice
"Epaminondas, the first man of Greece" -Cicero.
Another great video- your explanations are nuanced and thorough :)
Great video again, HofH. The collab with HistoryMarche was brilliant too. I look forward to watching......? Wherever you go! LoL. Cheers from Tennessee
Wow! For some reason I have not seen any of your videos in the past but I love your channel! You, HistoryMarche, History Dose, and Kings and Generals are my favorite channels now! Great content would love to see the Diodoci wars.
Welcome aboard! I am planning to verge into that territory after covering Alexander the Great!
@@HoH Awesome! Thank you for the great content again - have a happy holidays and I am sure I speak for many when I say I look forward to future uploads.
Battle did not played out as explained here in video.
Acording to Xenophon - Thebans had more cavalry which was also better equipped and trained.
Once they routed the Spartan cavalry it run over it's Spartan ranks in rout, so it means cavalry was somwhere in front of infantry or had skirmish much earlier because Xenohpon stated that cavalry battle was most likely over before Cleombrotus gave signal to advance.
So Spartans didn't had time to get back in formation when Theban Sacred Band charged at them.
Also, Theban cavalry played significant role in charging at unprotected Spartan flanks, they didn't stand idle once they routed enemy cavalry. (Hellenica - Book 7 Chapter 4 , Section 13)
There is also serious chance that Thebans used phalangites and that explains deep formation. We know that because later at battle of Sparta, Xenophon mentions that "this time both sides had weapons with enough reach, so they could clash with eachother" (Hellenica 7.5.17).
Perfect!!!!@!!
Very true! We can add that quite probably the longer Theban spears did outreach the Spartan ones in the initial clash, killing or wounding most of the experienced and ablest soldiers (including the king Kleombrotus) who were drawn up in the front rank, and before the other ranks were able to put their shorter spears to good use, the Theban 48-50 deep formation pressed forward, in the classical "othismos aspidon" (push of shields) that always followed the initial "storm of spears" of most hoplite battles. The Spartans were quite simply pushed back and rolled over by the four-fold deeper and heavier Theban column formation, and crumbled in their hundreds. This is why their casualties were so high, they did not retreat but were simply stumbled over, trampled to death and killed off. When seeing this, the rest of the army, which was composed of Peloponnesian allies, lost all their will to fight and quickly started to retreat, and then to fly. Again, most were simply cut down by the pursuing Thebans, as was common in most ancient battles. The big discrepancy in casualties between the victorious and losing side was not peculiar to this one battle, but was the usual outcome of almost all engagements in ancient times, as most losses were inflicted once one side had been broken, and was retreating in disarray, incapable of offering organised resistance, and was literaly cut down one by one by the pursuing enemy (at Leuktra, in particular, this was the work of the Theban cavalry).
@@gabrielmendella
Othismos theory is a myth. There was no organized pushing match in massive formations. It's a figure of speech for "clash". Same as we say "they clashed with their swords and their shields". It was not literal organized physical push from lines behind , but pushing the enemy to gain ground. Word othismos was also used when you "gain ground" or win a rethorical argument over your opponent.
Of course there were some indivdual cases of pushing with a shield but massive shove almost never happened.
There was only one mention of attempt massive shield shove at battle of Coronea in 394 BC, that historians like to use as argument for "othismos aspidon" but they forget the major fact that these were extreme circumstances when Thebans attempted breakthrough.
Thebans were surrounded at ending phase of battle, when Spartans came behind them, so Thebans wanted to break through and retreat back to safety, charging with their shields at Spartan formation, and that proved fatal for the Thebans because many of them are killed in that massive push. Turns out that charging towards wall of spears will get you killed fast.
All interesting speculation but we really don’t know and are guessing, as were historians of the time. Informed guessing but like all guessing, it could be way off. I’m glad humans try to figure out what might have happened but we all need a huge dollop of humility in declaring with any assurance what “actually” happened.
@@tommyrq180
Unlike other ancient historians, Xenophon lived at time period when these battles happened. He was a soldier. He was there in Asia minor marching with 10 000. He wrote "Anabis".
He lived in Lacedemon. His son died fighting alongside Lacedemonians so Im pretty sure he knew exactly what was going on.
Besides, there is no interpertation or middle ground for "long weapons". Infantry at the time was using spears, so there is no guessing or speculation what spear with longer reach "could possibly mean".
Of course we don't have any evidence from that time period therefore we can't be 100% sure but we can assume by using logic and deduction.
We know Epaminondas was great inovator in military. We know Xenophon mentioning that in battle of Sparta, Lacedemonians this time had "longer weapons", he also mentioned skirmishes being placed among ranks of Theban "hoplites" (Alexander the Great used such tactics).
We know Philip II of Macedon (father of Alexander) was hostage of Epaminondas, learning everything from him. And soon as he took power Philip II of Macedon reformed his army into phalangites.
So we can assume with some certainty that Epaminondas was most liklely inovator of phalangites.
Great video as always!
In reply to a comment claiming that ancient Macedonians were considered "Greek" ;
The Macedonians and the kingdom itself were never considered "Greek" in the ancient times. In fact, historians and orators back then considered the Macedonians as "Barbaroi" or literally "non-kinsman/ non-Greeks". The term "Barbarians" was applied to any people that didn't speak the Greek language of old, including Macedonians, Thracians, Illyrians, Persians, Egyptians, Medes, Phoenicians, Galatians etc.
The noble Macedonian house ruled over multiple smaller tribes in what was Macedonia and non of them were considered "Greek" by any ancient historian. They were probably much more related to their nearby neighbors, the Illyrian, Paeonian and Thracian tribes who also had their own distinct cultures. Fact alone that multiple Greek city-states like Athens and Thebes openly rebelled against Macedonian rule while Macedonian kings, Alexander specifically, was expanding the borders north all the way to the Danube river. Even before, in the Greco-Persian wars, Macedonia was a vassal and an ally to the Persian empire and lend support to the Persians. And it is at this point (that many people want to quote ancient historians) when Herodotus, the so called "father" of ancient history, said that 'Thessaly was the first Greek land to fall under Persian rule'. And even decades after Alexander, the Greeks fought against the Macedonians, making multiple alliances (Achaian League, Aetolian League, Roman alliance) against them before they all fell under Roman rule and were incorporated into the large Roman Empire, after the Roman-Macedonian wars.
It is in the 19th century, with the Bavarian (German) fascination of ancient Greece, that the first Kingdom of Greece and terms like "Hellenism" and "Hellenistic" were created (Gustav Droysen). Even the Bavarians themselves helped model Athens to be like Munich and this stuff is documented.
Even so, Aristotle spent many years in Macedonia tutoring Alexander and many Macedonians looked to Greece proper for cultural inspiration. This was similar to the "barbarians" of Roman times who admired and were influenced by Rome and adopted many Roman customs.
@@charleshimes1634 The Greeks themselves, especially the Athenian historians and orators often spoke of the "bar-baroi" as non-kinsman or non-Greeks and Phillip (after his conquest of the Greek city-states) was scolded by the Athenians and deemed a barbarian, because he was a Macedonian. And while the Macedonian nobility might have been taught to speak ancient Greek or taught about Greek culture, it didn't make them Greeks.
Now when it comes to customs and culture, Alexander respected and incorporated many elements of the different cultures in his now vast empire (after conquering Persia).
If I go back a couple of decades, Cyrus the Great (the Achaemenid king) subjugated many different people but always let them worship their own gods or cherish their own culture. As the Persian empire was expanding, so was it's multicultural society. Cyrus is even venerated in the Hebrew Bible as Cyrus the Messiah for conquering Babylon and liberating the Jews from captivity.
And one of the idols that Alexander probably had was Cyrus himself. Remember, Alexander visited and was influenced by many different parts of the known world. He made many cities in his name and bearing his name.
Cleombrotus himself died in the battlefield of Leuctra. It was the first time that a Spartan King dies in a battle since Leonidas in Thermopylae.
loved the collab with history marche keep doing work with him
Awesome video, keep it up!
Great as always!
Glad you think so!
Excellent work
I think at the beginning, the description of both sides forming a square is incorrect, Hoplites formed 8 deep in lines (or thinner/ deeper in specific circumstances) a Square was only formed when the flanks and or rear were threatened.
wonderful! will you do Platea as well?
I plan to!
Thank you sir!
Been there to the battlefield and viewed the Theban triumphal trophy.
I love classical Greek history. All your videos are of amazing quality!
Great video! There's one thing that has always interested me tho and that is how the loved ones of fallen soldiers would've been informed of their passing in battle, if they were informed at all. Or did they just hear rumors and have to hope for the best? If you could make a video about this, that would be pretty tight
pretty sure they were standing right next to them
I think this was a nice video. I just hope we get to see a new video on Fredrick the Great soon.
I love your humorous speech bubbles, made me chuckle more than once! 🤣🤣🤣
How did you create the maps and units?
0:50 I want to point out that the captions say “king epaminondas”
nice video
This is Sparta omg I can feel the epic-ness
Epaminondes wasn't king, he was a general.
The power of love, visualised.
Allot thanks for sharing most clearly episode about Ancient Greece 🇬🇷 cities internal clashing until Philip 2 of Macedonian kingdoms concord theirs
Dude you should do a video about how more ranks help. It seems...redundant as fvck. But it worked so....I'm missing something.
Apart from making it easier to fill in gaps for longer and providing more stability against pushes, deeper ranks improve morale because everyone feels more confident with more allies around them.
They also prevent fighters from fleeing - the ones in the front because they're firmly surrounded by allies, and the ones in the back (who'd have it easiest) by keeping them further away from the danger that would scare them.
You guys should do a video on the Battle of Gqokli Hill, it basically propelled Shaka Zulu into his legendary career
It was Pelopidas and not Epaminondas that fled Thebes after the Spartan coup. The Spartans and their Theban allies saw him as harmless, so ignored him.
1 Cleombroto was a young unexperienced king. 2 Spartans had poor and non efficient cavalry.. 3 most allied didn't really want a spartan victory. 4 the spartan cavalry began the battle after dinner and some were also drunk. The theban's cavalry had a big tradition. At the battle of Platea they were allied of the Persians and won at their side, against the greeks. The retreat of the cavalry in Leuttra gave pronlems to the spartan's infantry. 5 Epaminonda simply put most of the thebans soldiers against the only spartiats, letting their allied out of the battle. Perhaps they used longer spears, that Filippo of Macedonia saw. Remember that the roman losses against the phalanx were in the first batalion that attacked frontally. 6 Senofonte wrote: if there was a so heavy defeat how could the spartans retreat in order bringing the body of their king? 7 after this the spartans were angry and wanted to get back against the Thebans. The "Efori", the real Commanders, decided to stop.
In the Persian war Sparta had about 12.000 soldiers, now they were less than 2.000 spartiates. They decided not to risk other deads. 8 The Commanders of the allied were beheaded. 9 After, only two times the Thebans went to attack the city of Sparta, without walls; never succeeded. The first time there were only boys, the second time there was the king with few soldiers. 10 At Mantinea Epaminonda tried almost the same tactic, but this time the allied were Athenians who fought instead of staying still. Both claimed to be winners, but Thebe disappears, Sparta was kept because it was used from Macedonians and Romans to threat the other greeks but had no power at all. About the famous theban batalion most was written centuries after. I remember, but I'm not sure, that it was destroyed not in battle, but from the guards of Mantinea, with stones. We don't have spartan writers except Senofonte, exiled from Athens, whose sons were horsemen and died in the battle of Mantinea.
You must be a Greek! Most Americans in school learn that Sparta won the Peloponnesian War and then Greek history stops for them until Alexander's time. Some Americans don't even know that much. I remember Charlie Rose on TV (Who always was trying to impress his guests about how much he knew about every subject under the sun) remark - "Aw, the Peloponesian War, Athens won that one". His guest on the show had to correct him. Charlie Rose was kind of a blowhard and it embarrassed him immensely. I loved it as I was not a fan of his. It's refreshing that your comment here shows that you've done much more research. Thank you. I, for my part, am waiting for an epic movie about the life of Alcibiades. Maybe you could be a consultant to such a project.
Excuse me but there are few points that make nosense.
Cleombrotus I young and unexperienced? He lead literally three expedition against Thebes and Athens in 378BC, 376BC and 374BC respectively, having success in the last one in Boeotia and staying in there until 371BC.
Most allies of both side didn't want to fight. Both Cleombrotus and Epaminondas were worried of desertion but mostly of the lost of their reputation in their home-cities.
Epaminondas change the traditional formation used in classical greek warfare aiming to the command square, just where Cleombrotus was to eliminate him.
About the Romans losing against the greek phalanx, you are forgotting that Pyrrhus not only can't break the roman formation, but also started losing ground. For that Pyrrhus send his secret weapons that was never see in Italy: War Elephants that scare in fear the romans. And even with that Pyrrhus lose much men what him expected.
After losing Leuctra the Spartan weren't angry and want to keep the war. They were desperate that Thebes will just walk in their city easily and start pleading for peace.
Also Xenophon, who was more friendly with Agesilaus II, admited that the spartan wheren't progressives in change they combat styles, that's one reason they cavalry, archery and skirmisher sucks.
The boeotians didn't attacked Sparta because they wanted as a counter weight against Athens. Plus they set free the helots in Messenia and rebuilt the city of Megalopolis to make them a counter weight against Sparta, plus taking a lot of fertile land shrinking the already flimsy spartan economy.
The Battle of Mantinea (362BC) is considered by most historians (ancient and modern) a Theban military victory, even if their leaders die in combat or by thier wounds. Plus the mantinean leader, Podares, die first.
Thebes was destroyed by Alexander III of Makedon, but even him recognized their achievements who help him conquer the Persian Empire.
and later after taking Persepolis dedicated his victories to "ALL THE GREEKS, EXCEPT THE SPARTANS."
Where you get the info that the Sacred Band was killed by the mantineans?
And to put an end, the romans keep Sparta has a tourist attraction park where they enjoy watching the Ritual Beating of the "young spartan warriors"
@@hernanreipp3321 answer when I can. I don't have my library with me. Updating. I remembered wrong in some parts, for example the sacred batalion was humiliated (not destroyed) from light armoured soldiers of Corinto, not of Mantinea who were allied. Cleombroto went in Beotia, but did nothing the first time, loosing a battle second time so the spartans had to call Agesilao. Didn't get the age. Mantinea was not a theban victory, I confirm, as Senofonte writes. Of course this is my opinion. I think that we really don't know a lot about the ancient wars and perhaps they were all different. Still updating and I'm not seeing a real spartan power. Attacking a city trying not to conquer it seems a little funny
One thing that I see few people commenting on is that there is an exaggerated and unrealistic fame about the "military discipline" of Sparta. I've seen this in few authors, and many people believe the movies more than the story.
Amazing how Sparta has become a legend throughout western history having been one of the most horrible political systems. I guess Plato played a big role on that…
It is sad that Sparta shifted from champions of city-state sovreignty to imperialism which they had fought against in Peloponnesian War
Epaminondas was a military genius. He was far ahead of his time. His military innovations and tactics would only be compared of these of Alexander the Great. His military skeptic and strategic mind was able to watch from close the young prince hostage from Macedonia and future king Philip 2.
Greece and not only Thebes, unfortunate lost very early a Great leader. He followed Philosophic ethics.
Spartan society and the Spartan system was never scalable.
9:04 - "cavlary"
Thebes, the New Sparta
8:05 do you have a source ?
Any academic source. But here as well: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes?wprov=sfla1
@@HoH lol yes i'm familiar with wikipedia and "modern academia". But, I prefer primary sources. I look forward to you providing a primary source
Give Pelopidas by Plutarch a read. I can't post everything here, but:
""So tribe might tribe, and kinsmen kinsmen aid." but that he should have joined lovers and their beloved. For men of the same tribe or family little value one another when dangers press; but a band cemented by friendship grounded upon love is never to be broken, and invincible; since the lovers, ashamed to be base in sight of their beloved, and the beloved before their lovers, willingly rush into danger for the relief of one another. Nor can that be wondered at since they have more regard for their absent lovers than for others present; as in the instance of the man who, when his enemy was going to kill him, earnestly requested him to run him through the breast, that his lover might not blush to see him wounded in the back. It is a tradition likewise that Iolaus, who assisted Hercules in his labours and fought at his side, was beloved of him; and Aristotle observes that, even in his time, lovers plighted their faith at Iolaus's tomb. It is likely, therefore, that this band was called sacred on this account"
I disagree with the title that this battle was the sole reason for Sparta's collapse. This battle wouldn't have been an issue were it not for the casualties Sparta suffered in the Corinthian War and in the Theban War leading up to this battle. This battle was damaged Thebes just as much as Sparta.
I still don't understand why having more rows of people matter? Do they link arms and create so much weight? Are there more spears? I want to understand the mechanics
Literally, every soldier in front was pushed forward by the soldier in is back given a more strong offensive force when advancing and at the same time a strong defense when stopping enemy charges. That is the basic concept in the early phalanx formation.
The spear is essential in these type of fight because his long range (in that times) and the wounds that inflict will disrupt the opponent formation making it hard to counteract.
Also have in mind that to use the Dory (greek name of the spear) more effective the formation in the offensive need to have more men when attacking to break the opponent formation in defense.
And yes is obviously that more men in a row will have better chances to beat the other row with fewew men.
Imo spartan society was more geared towards defense because the slave population had to be kept In Check they could not go on extended military campaigns.
What was important was that the Theban General's Infantry Assault on the Spartan King's flank resulted in the latter's death. When that happened, the Spartan's Allies and Helots (Slaves) deserted the field. These had made up 50 percent of the Spartan Army resulting in their Immediate defeat.
The decline of the Spartans was pre-ordained as the total amount of Spartan Males fit for the Army had declined over the preceding 80 years due to Spartan females not wanting to have many children. Also Sparta was always fearful of revolts from their population of Helots and so, was always kept a Spartan force at their City.
Further, rulership by Spartan friendly Oligarchic governments in conquered Greek Cities was brutal and barbaric and something other Greeks did not want.
Finally this particular Theban General went to the borders of Sparta to get the conquered Spartan Helots to revolt from Spartan rule which destroyed their Supremacy.
did not mention that epaminondas was the "inventor" of the phalanx .. phillip the 2nd teh father of Alexander teh Great had learnt the formation while a hostage at Thebes
Please the Inca path to empire
I'm very suspicious of the 300 Sacred Band of Thebans. 300 seems to be a convenient number---300 Spartans at Thermopylae, the Carthaginian had 300 men in their sacred band as well. As for being Thebes' constituted of male lovers, culturally this is at odds with what we know was the practice of male to male sex at the time. An older man with a younger man, not 2 men of approximately that same age. Makes a good story but I think it is a another literary device used over and over depending on the situation. As with the skull of Roman commanders by Parthians and Germans, the skulls of Persian/Greek/ commanders by the Scythians all used as drinking cups. The list could go on and on throughout ancient history. Of the thousands of dead Spartans, only 400 were Spartiates. Even this small amount of casualties showed the population decline that was to prove Sparta's undoing. And this is before the liberation of Messenia by the Thebans which sent Sparta into an irreversible decline in population and prestige. First Athens becomes imperial, then Sparta, now Thebes. Can they all just get along?
I believe the gay story about the sacred band of thebes came from thebans disguised as women infiltrating their spartan overlords party and killing them thus starting the war
The look on the faces of macho dudes that live for the movie "300" and have "Molan Labe" on their pickup truck when you inform them that their manly heroes got spanked by 150 gay couples is priceless..
LOL! LOL LOL LOL! The Sacred Band. Legend. Cheers
I like the movie 300, and if I drove a pickup truck I wouldn't mind putting "Molan Labe" on it.
Got no problem with the Sacred Band, kind of makes sense to create a military force of gay lovers. In battle your fighting for your fellow soldiers so it makes sense that they would fight harder for the one they love.
Not too different than the Spartans and how they would create units that would have your family members in it to make you fight harder.
Why does everyone get it wrong about the Sacred Band! Do your research !
Why don't you read the quotations? They're posted so quickly I can't read them myself I have to backtrack and watch it over again . Just saying
Too much attrition over many decades, and they raised the financial standards for who could be an Equal..........this last great Spartan army didn't have many Equals in it compared to those of 450 BC or 500 BC.
Sparta: WE Don't Need City WALLS....!!!
The rest of the Greeks: Yeah you did, now you're "F"d.
Amazing!
Would be amazing if you guys did some content on the illyrians 👍
You mention the Spartan fleet. I think you mean the Corinthian fleet?
It depends - at the Battle of Naxos the Spartan navy was destroyed. I am not sure if that's what you're referring to.
More in the sense that the Lacedaemon weren't exactly known for that. It was mostly their allies like Corinth who actually supplied a fleet.
A bit like the Persian fleet actually being Phoenician. Which might then seem pedantic but the city states were still very independent and varied.
@@quasima sparta had a fleet
🙂
I thought that it was against Spartan law to retreat? That wasn't the same Sparta of old 😕
Macedonia was a Greek city state too and not outsider !
🤔👍
Looks like success spoiled Sparta. Had they taken their victory over Athens in the Peloponnesian War as the basis for a new power relationship instead of trying to assert dominance over everyone, they may well have not accumulated so many enemies all anxious to stick the knife in the Spartan ribs.
Even though Sparta defeated Athens, Athens managed to be more relevant later on.
Thats the benefit of having an actual culture that isnt only
We strong military
Sparta has achieved a legendary status though.
As much as we like to complain about our flawed democracies, fewer people desire to live in a pure military society where the cities are basically armed camps who have to keep close watch over the majority of the population who are basically slaves.
i wonder what our history would be like if there were no narcissists or sociopaths
sparta was poisoned by success, money entered the society, warriors were less inclined to train, more inclined to live.
and the wealth was not evenly spread, as usual, the hoplites were unable to meet obligations of training and armor, and could only fight as light spear-men.
The number of inaccuracies in this video is astonishing
leuctra is also the only thing the sacred band did of any historical note, they were annhilated at chaeronea 33 years later
That is a very arrogant comment. Thebes after Leuctra established themselves as the main force in Hellenic territory, even managed to invade Sparta territory and free elotes and messinians which were slaves of Sparta for centuries (that was unthinkable by then and sacred band played massive role in Theban dominance). Also in Chaeronea the sacred band was the only force of the allied army that did not fled, stayed and fought to the last man against macedonian cavalry, Athenians made the disastrous mistakes that cost the battle. Philip after the combat stare the dead bodies of the sacred band and said "curse to those who will speak ill about these brave men". They got buried all together, excavation appeared 254 men that were buried under a huge lion monument that macedonians eraised to honour the sacred band. They were the elite force of their time.
Spartan Superiority Exposed !!!!
Long story short, Sparta lost for refusing to update its military tactics.
The Greeks would have been better off to become a part of Eran Shahr, join the Aryan Imperium, and not remain as blundering barbarians.
lol
LOL!
Greece could have been an empire if they could have just stopped fighting each other and combine forces
Hints,"20 or so years later Macedonia vs Persia. There were more greeks fighting with Persia than Macedonia . This is why!
The problem with training elite level soldiers is replacing them when they die in combat.
You need to safeguard your best troops and use them wisely, the Spartans were not so wise.
The other problem, the Spartans were a semi-closed knit society that looked down at most other people.
If you don't participate in globalization, you miss out on collective learning, you fall behind the rest of the world, and eventually parish.
In my opinion, the Spartans were overrated and eventually destroyed themselves from their own blind ignorance.
By the time this battle happend there were around 300 elite-level Spartans left and most of their Army was made up of subjugated, not so well trained Hoplites who really didn't have a vested interest in Sparta's survival
7:58 - they weren't "male lovers". That's just a modern misinterpretation
Oliganthropy
So the 300 gays.. play the main roles in defeating the Spartans!
Spartan kink died in this battle. Why doesn't the video touch on the subject?
Sparta lost its military power because it ran out of men.
I just shake My head when I hear," The (Spartans (Lokonia )spreading Freedom!" They Enslaved a entire pipulation. Their entire Society, military power was contingent on slaves?
That being said," The Females of Sparta were equal amongst males. Spartan women were the only females in all the City States that were considered equal to their men. They voted and participated in politics. They were yrs beyond their time in that sense. Know for being very beautiful, athletic, highly competent leaders. Who contributed to the state.Just as the males did . They were not shy about flaunting their physical attributes and beauty."
That's one reason why you don't destroy history? You have to learn from the good and bad, of the human race.
Fun Fact: Spartan people are still existing under the name of Tsakonian. And their language is mutually unitelligible for other Hellenes.
You skipped the battle of Arginusae, stop playing these mind games on me :'(
the only elite gay unit in history
Shhh. You'll only invite scores of them on here to try to prove you wrong.
Leonidas is ashamed
If those gay fighters had fought real Spartans, they would be running away faster than their partners.
Were those here not real spartans
Many mistakes.
Yes, the Theban Sacred Band. The stronger version of the shields and spears of 300. And a little bit more gay. Okay, a lotta bit more gay. Nothing like 300 gay men made up of 150 gay couples beating the tar out of the mightiest warriors. Love conquers, you saw it at Leuctra.
That's a myth
@@jothegreek it's not a myth, it's recorded in Greek history. Now I'm not homophobic at all I know what I like and don't like and I'm comfortable with my sex life, but you seem like you might have some insecurities saying "it's a myth" and then not providing an explanation. Also, "Myth" is a word that not long ago meant the same thing as "history" or "story".
@@Nervii_Champion it's a myth it's only referred by one writer that loved centuries later
@@jothegreek I highly doubt a unit that has been recorded as doing many many things by many different sources, but also pretty much every other army and country in the world has formed groups out of their most elite soldiers so to say this is fantasy is a bit far fetched.
@@Nervii_Champion what you doubt do some research the myth of gay lovers is based on the writing of one guy
Wat irritant, dat Nederlandse accent. Misschien een professionele voice-over inhuren...
What a joke is this? So according to you Philip and the Macedonians were not Greeks? Can you tell me what language they spoke? Can you tell me what god's they worshipped? Can you explain how a non-Greek got the title of "General Emperor of Hellenes" at the League of Corinth?
Or even the most simple of all, what the name "Philippos" mean? In what language is it explained?
Your analysis is very superficial. You have good graphics but that's it.
I'm currently working on the battle of Chaeronea. Contemporary Greek city-states did not consider Macedonians Greek. Their dialect was different and they considered the kingdom to lag in many respects.
@@HoH Well you have answered none of my questions but let's follow your way of thinking.
Spartans thought of themselves to be superior to all other Greek city states. So, Spartans are the only Greeks.
P.S. : Can you show a text that says what are you claiming?
@@HoH Dude come on. You have a history UA-cam channel. Claiming that Macedonians were not Greeks is embarrassing for you. Even the most zealous supporters of this lie(modern day slavs of North Macedonia Republic) acknowledged this in 2018. I mean what are you thinking 😂
@@HoH yet you place epirus which was pretty much the same with macedon as greek
Nowhere in the video did I say Macedonians weren't Greeks.
Spartans got extinct, because ghey.
Thebes was the best of both world sparta and athens
Hi has a lot of mistakes ....take care , reds original greeks books, flank right abandoned the fight and mora Spartan less than 700 hoplites...obvious loss the battle...and 8 ranks not 12 againts 50 ...the wrong never go Thebes with insurrected miltarys...
1 huge mistake of the creator of the video:
Saying that fights between Greek cities states left them weakened and open to an attack from outside…
CORRECTION: MACEDONIANS WERE GREEKS LIKE THE EPIROTS LIKE THE PELOPONESEANS LIKE THE ATHENEANS LIKE THE AITOLIANS THE CREATANS AND ALL THE REST!!!
THEY WERE SPEAKING GREEK, WRITING IN GREEK, HAD SAME CUSTOM, CULTURE AND SAME GODS! CLAIMED SAME ORIGIN LIKE THE REST OF THE GREEKS (ALEXANDER THE GREAT WAS SAYING HE IS COMING FROM HERAKLES THROUGH HIS FATHER AND ACHILLES THRIUGH HIS MOTHER!!!)
Their only difference between these people was their political system (oligarchy, democracy, aristokracy with kings and etc..)
PLEASE BE CAREFUL WHEN YOU DO A VIDEO THAT IS ABOUT HISTORY!!!
Most of the greeks in that period considered the Macedonians barbarians like the Thracians.
Plus a lot of ancient leaders in that times will said that he is the son/descendant of an anciente hero or demigod to support their acts of conquest.
You don’t know what you are talking about…
Barbarians they call all who still have a different political system than the classic southern city states!
Like the epirotes! Like the Macedonians. Both kingdoms!
These “barbarians” have nothing to do with the other “ barbarians” like the Getes, or the Illyrians to the north that all Greeks knows them as not only enemies but also as different race of people!
If Macedonians wouldn’t be Greeks then they wouldn’t participate to the Olympic Games where only proved Greek origin people could participate..
Also if Phillip was not Greek or Alexander, I am sure they would create another claim of a non Greek hero or DemiGod as you call it, and not two of the most famous Greek heroes!
Listen..
Go have a cup of milk and then calm down..read real history and not propaganda..and then we can chat again..
Bye bye!
Also if you have the ba..lls and some money in the pocket, go travel to the original Macedonia in Greece (not the north Monkeydonia of the Slav thieves..) and visit the ancient capital of Phillip and Alexander , the city of Pella!
Go to the tombs of the ancient Macedon Kings..Go read all inscriptions there..modern Greeks can still read them..Understand them and they can explain you, along with all the names of these people (Alexander, Phillip, Philotas, Hefastion, Cleopatra and thousand others) that have meaning only in. Greek Language…
In any way you want to see this, in scientific, in dna tests that universities like Harvard and Yeil did and found that the Greek people of today have the same blood with the Mycenaeans and the Minoans and the southern Greeks the same DNA with the sceletons found in Macedonian tombs, will scream to you the same truth:
That Macedonians were Greeks..
All the rest I leave it for archeologists , historians and museums..Go to NY the Met and see..
All the rest is garbage…
PS: in modern times we like to say everyone is free to declare he is whatever he likes..
Well..I am sorry for you but the ancient Macedonians were saying they are Greeks, and that’s why the spread on all their empire the Greek culture, science and language..
All the rest is bullshit…