How to help a "difficult" person
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2017
- Jordan Peterson gives a very thoughtful response to a question that is very complicated.
The question is , how to help a person with borderline personality disorder, but he generalizes to "difficult" situations and/or person.
Full video: • Lecture: Biblical Seri...
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I curate content (edit little snippets of wisdom from the original material) and by giving it an original take and a coherent narrative, it adds value to the original content, plus makes it know to new people.
“That’s wisdom, it’s not cruelty” I wish I would’ve learned this before trying to help people that don’t want to help themselves.
Me too man me too.
Same.
It sucks when a family member becomes involved. When they are part of your life, you want to help them as much as you can. But, when you realize after years of attempts and nothing has changed at all, you come to the conclusion that that person cant be saved.
Well, let's not mince words. Existence IS cruel. But if you want to live in the world then it's something you must endure.
How do I tell them to my family members hmmm
Someone in a hole doesnt always want a hand out, the hole becomes their safe place
Omg! So true. I can't talk someone out of their hole. Lol never been able. Breaks my heart and I wish I knew the magic words.
They must come out of their own, which means that everyone needs to ignore them, so they will leave their comfort zone.
If we wouldn't do this, then there is no need for them to ever leave the hole or cave in the first place.
It however helps, if they are in posession of a pointer for directions, if they start to leave.
Nobody want consciously to be in a hole.
@@user-sf5iq2fl1l no. But how to prove They are ? Its a spiritual hole... Metaphorical hole. So sad. Breaks my heart.
realizing you're in the hole doesn't help much. Actions is the key, but from where are you gonna muster the self discipline to face a world crowded with "dragons", while you spent your life being Peter Pan. Somehow I managed to with A LOT of J.Peterson videos.
"If they are not willing to not be lost, you cannot help them"
Gold . . . ♥
What does that mean?
@@kinza.fatima A person 'not willing to not be lost' is someone who finds a tempting comfort in their misery and too afraid of change even if it's for the better of them and everyone around them. I've been that person before. It sucks. People who care about you will be pulling their hair out because they can't figure out why you won't take the steps better yourself even when they try to help in any way they can. It's all a big mess.
@@kinza.fatima some people don't want help. They think "I am fine, it's the rest of the world that has the problem, so why should I change?"
I was inspired by this comment, change is for you to grow
@@jacintakeeble1225 yeah thats stupid why wouldnt i want to change? hahaha man we are funny humans. yes feminisms the problem and i want to start a #StopHatingMenCapaimng because theres so many bad women out there! But I agree simply becasue the unjustifiable atrocities feminists have comitted doesnt mean I shouldnt blow their heads off! I NEED TO CHANGE AND sTART BLOWING THEIR HEADS OFF THANKS FOR THE COMMENT!
"If someone who is sinking has their hands around your neck and is pulling you down, you are not obligated to drown with them." Tragic, but so true. I had to cut off all communication with my own mother because of this. I tried and tried and tried with her for years, but if someone is determined to be wretched and miserable and toxic, there is nothing you can do. The best service you can do is to cut your losses, live the best life you can, and focus your efforts where they might actually do some good.
I can relate to you as well. I cut off all ties with my mom too. She was toxic for me. I've learned to save myself and keep my sanity by doing that..
It's a horribly difficult thing to do, but sometimes walking away can actually help the person you're leaving. For me, all my friends and family were weak and obsessed with their own flaws, and no amount of my encouragement or effort would get them to better themselves and their lives. So eventually I had enough, and I moved out of state to pursue my own dreams and goals. At first they were all sad, but eventually a lot of them started thinking "Hey, if he can do it, maybe I can to." And now a few of them have used me as inspiration to make their lives better.
I have a friend who, as a teenager, left his entire family, despite knowing that his siblings would suffer under their toxic parents. He couldn't do anything to help them; all he could do was to save himself, and so he did.
I've never gotten the full story on this, only that basic outline, but it's a sobering reminder that sometimes the only choice is to save yourself or get pulled under.
I'm in a similar situation. Always have been. Gonna leave it all behind me soon. The sad thing is that there's nothing that I'll miss :|
@@akinoreh why is that sad? It's even better , it's how you look at the things that happened.
You also can't clean up other people's rooms for them. If you have a Hoarder, and go in and clean up their room, yes they have a clean room.. for now. But after awhile, they will continue to Hoard and the room will eventually go back to its natural place of being messy. Individuals need to decide for themselves, to fix their own bad habits and problems, and then you can help. But to do it for them, is wasted.
Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for his life.
That's what happens when I clean my own room lol
I think he is referring to difficult personalities, to someone who is lost and is not willing to be helped. He is not referring to people with cancer, or are disabled, or even difficult people, who are are lost yet willing to be helped.
Some people are just messies. They are low on that aspect of Conscientiousness. They will have to learn how to deal with that on their own. You may be able to help them learn, but they have to do it themselves.
sidefringespartan Ah! But only if the man WANTS to learn to fish!
If someone is pretending to be asleep you can't wake them up !
I don't even waste my time anymore due to the fact that, during my life experience, the old adage proved to be true. That being: "Don't give advice, wise men don't need it and fools won't heed it". Similar to: "don't cast pearls before swine."
But the Fool is the precursor to the wise man. One has to offer the advice and see if it is taken, else no wise man can ever arise.
I think the crux of the issue is trying. Once it has been thoroughly established to be futile, then you may live by the wisdom of these adages.
@@MeeGeea definitely agree
Max Power I so agree
That is good
The irony of that statement is that it is advice .
I have a friend who I've known since I was 12 (24 now) but I can't spend any more energy on trying to help her anymore, she doesn't take my advice and then later asks why I let her do the things she did despite me actively telling her not to do those things. I don't want to walk away from her but she's pulling me down with her. I even tried sending her some of Petersons lectures relevent to her issues and she never even watched them. You can't help those who don't want to be helped, most just want the attention from getting that help brings
Also Tough Love is saying the truth but still willing to stand by no matter what. (the Love part). This is about just being tough. On both of you. But you have to sometimes.
Hetro Otter, just a word of advice. Don't let her blame you for her own choices in life. One thing I learned about women is they are like mirrors. They naturally deflect blame and responsibility and point it to someone else. In this case, you. You are not her father or her keeper. She is the master of her own soul. If she falls in the pit, don't think its your fault that she fell in. Simply ask, why did you jump in?
Defender2516 Thanks! I don't let her blame me anymore, learnt that the hard way :P
This is true.
Otter Side do you still talk to her¿?
This man is nothing short of magic
He grows on you. The more I watch, the more he makes sense.
Dolan Dak Be careful, just so you don't stop to think for yourself. He himself wouldn't want that happened to anyone either, but it's the easiest thing to do.
Marten Dekker Yes, the problem I'm starting to see with Jordan is that people are starting to adore him, without noticing that he's human too. It might be going into his head.
JoseitoEdlVodao you could be correct...or that could say more about you than JP (or anyone else). That's not meant to be insulting, btw. I think he's the real deal, doing his best for as many who are willing to get something out of it. Demagoguery says more about the population than the demagogue. We as a nation are starving....take a look around...it's self evident. Whether or not JP is a good guy ir not (or Trump, HRC, et al), doing 'good' or not seems to be somewhat less important than the fact that we MUST be having these dialogues. Or no way to sort ourselves out, roughly speaking. Interesting time atm...
T Clark their beliefs have failed and they refuse to acknowledge it. Insanity ensued.
I'm borderline, been doing therapy for years, I've seen plenty of people with the same diagnosis giving constant efforts towards a more stable lifestyle.
I'm glad he clarified the question, because being borderline is not at all synonym of defeatism.
"In a massacre there's no decent place to stand." - Leonard Cohen
When all the moves on the chess board lead to a loss...The winning move is not to play.
Damn, dude...
Chess is a meta-game, losing to your opponent forthrightly makes you a good loser (rather than one who flips the board over when they have lost). That noble loss has its rewards within yourself.
Heartening are the dubiousness in the replies here :] If you walk into an insane asylum and declare you'll fix everyone, you'll end getting locked in there with them. Some people are beyond help. Thats the point Jordan fixated on. The term 'lost cause' is derived from this. He elaborates here ua-cam.com/video/WCLfw4RjXE0/v-deo.html
Keep working with english boogie
"There are cracks, cracks! in everything, that's how the Light gets in, that's how the LIGHT GETS IN ! " Amen. Thank you L.C.
This is absolutely true. I learned this the hard way. I was once in a relationships where the people had multiple disorders/depression/anxiety. I felt so bad for them that I was foolish enough to believe that if I comforted them and encouraged them enough, they would be cured. I was dead wrong. Before I knew it, I had devoted my every living breath to them, paranoid that even if I had left them for a day, all hell would break loose. I thought they were emotionally dependent on me, and thus I became emotionally dependent on them, unknowingly flinging myself into severe depression and anxiety. And of course, they weren't doing any better themselves. When I realized this and became just fed up with devoting over a year of my life to these people, I cut all ties and lived my life and it was SUCH a breath of fresh air. It may seem cruel, but at that point, leaving those people is the absolute best thing you can do. You cant help someone who doesnt want to help themselves.
+Pragmatic Entertainment Me too. It especially is a downer if you are the kind of open hearted person who wants to help everyone.
Blonde TapperWare ys
Thanks for sharing
Blonde TapperWare That behavior in yourself is called co-dependency, and yes the answer is to “cut bait” and let it go.
I have been in the exact same situation, it is really difficult to deal with it and you end up blaming yourself for not being capable of helping that person. At least after one year, I ended up with a good lesson for my life, after all, as "cruel" as it can be, I realize its better for me to find someone who are at least somewhat equal to myself emotionally, otherwise it can end in suffering. I'ts really not worth it to keep trying if you don't see any progress at all.
In the Myth of Theseus and the Minotaur, Ariadne ties a string around herself and Theseus (by the ankle? I don't recall) and stands outside the labirinth. so that he may find his way out after he has slain the monster.
This has always been a striking story to me, and has helped me to understand how to "help" someone else.
Don't join them INTO their labirinth to help them slay their minotaur (or clean their room to slay their dragon :D) but stand guard, for when they decide (or find a moment of clarity, or hit rock bottom that moves them to take back control over their life) to emerge and find the way back out.
It's hard to just stand outside and wait. Especially when it concerns someone you love. I messed up lots of times and joined in emotional debates with my mother who suffered from borderline personality disorder and would be HIGHLY irrational to the point where (as Peterson says) any advice or friendly gesture would be wasted.
It's really hard to have to wait out someone's problems, especially when they seem so obvious to you, as an outsider.
But the story of Theseus has made me wonder. Would it even be "help" for Ariadne to have gone into the Labirinth and kill the Minotaur? First of all, both would be stuck in there so thats that. But also, the value in overcoming issues (in my personal experience) lies mainly in becoming practiced at 1) recognising the problem when and how it emerges and 2) the sense of accomplishment for having tried, failed, tried again and finally triomphed (in some way)
Anyway, I don't write long comments like this for a reason but this clip seems to have struck a cord.
My mother will have committed suicide three years ago in two weeks so I suppose it's not weird its on my mind. I don't miss her. That's the worst of it. I hated her by the end because she was so damn irrational and out of touch. Like Peterson said (in another video I don't know which one sorry) that people with borderline are fine at recognising the problem but absolutely unable to bring about any change. By the end the crushing realisation that she had made any relationship impossible must have pushed her over the edge I think...
Clean your damn rooms and slay your dragons people. The consequences for not doing so are far to dire.
At first, I thought my dad had sent you from the great beyond, TheyMadeMeDoThis. Clean your room? But, wow. This is very much like what happened to me with my sister. She shot herself in the head June 8, 2014. I am pretty sure she suffered from borderline personality disorder. She drank more than anyone I have ever met. The last five years of her life, she was pure poison to me. This was hard, because I had spent most of my life thiking of her as my best friend. Something changed in her one year. It was as if she was no longer looking at me from behind her eyes. After her death, when I cleaned out her condo, I realised that she had probably become a high priced S & M prostitute. She had also said to me once that she would do this for $5,000 a time but she had been drinking, and I did not take her literally. She had previously had a twenty year career as a very successful urban designer. She was very creative. Unless my experience is unique, borderlines are beyond morality. It was finally just too painful to have anything to do with her. I told her that I wanted her back as a sister when she was ready to stop being such a horrifying bitch. I said "You're dead to me." This, of course, has haunted me. I have spent the last three years looking after my 86 year old mother, who has dementia. I had thought of this as going through a grieving period for my sister, but have not completely realised the way my mother losing her grasp on reality has been making me lethargic. That and a romantic rejection. By which person I am somehow confused.This person has been very kind and helpful to me through some bad behaviour, while not letting me to continue to do it unwittingly. When I say that, I do not mean that I don't accept responsability. I see it now. I have to be present to deal with my life.Thanks. I love this person for their kindness and patience. Many would have bailed.
You are welcome. I don't have much of a choice, although there is the temptation to just check out with weed. I have decided, instead to face things head on for a while.
Wow. What a comment. I reckon Peterson himself would appreciate it.
TheyMadeMeDoThis ....The lack of results, tells me the framework being used is worthless.
No Gods or demons, just consciousness being shared or denied.
I'm really sorry you guys had to go through this. It's hard to understand that someone can't help it, but hurt you anyway.
“You’re not obligated to drown with them” brilliant.
"If you're trying to help someone and it doesn't work. Then stop helping" - I stopped being freely available for helping one particular individual who was disrespectful towards me for a long time a year and a half ago and that one thing has helped me know more about myself than anything else. We stick to things even things that don't work because we don't want to face new problems and we are comfortable with the old problems. I've learnt that staying in the same rut because the rut is all you know is a waste of a good life. Thanks Dr. JP
One has to light one's own lamp. Love isn't something you give or take, it emanates from within.
E.T. Well said!
I actually told someone who can't swim, when she told me she would trust me to save her if she jumped into water, "Don't jump in the water when I'm around. I'm not letting you drown me in an attempt to save you." Thankfully, she got it.
Nymphfy ...
Nymphfy Is he? Imagine that person just doesn't want to learn to swim, no matter how many times you tell them. If that's the case and then the person said something like that I would say the same probably.
The drowning example is not a myth/a story/a metaphor.
Unless it's a small kid drowning there's a high chance you're both going down.
I thought this was common knowledge.
io9.gizmodo.com/why-rescuers-die-while-drowning-victims-survive-1680233920
Well, i guess even if it's a child it still happens
"17 - The number of rescuers fatally
drowned in 15 incidents in
Australia (2002-2007) trying to
rescue a drowning child. In 93%
of these incidents, the child survived.
Source: Franklin R, Pearn J. Drowning for love: the aquatic victim-instead-
of-rescuer syndrome: drowning fatalities involving those attempting to
rescue a child. Journal of Paediatrics and Child Health. 2011;47(1-2)44-7."
And lastly
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22709998/
I don't know whether or not this is good research. It's from 5min of Google.
Nymphfy forgot to mention the comment i was replying to
Gail Lewis i don’t get how a grown person can’t swim. It seems kinda self-evident to me, guess I’m just lucky to have learned lol
"if you are drowning then you can't drown me with you" holy crap that hits home
There was another analogy that makes sense in this story. When you're on a plane the flight attendant tells you in no uncertain terms to put your own oxygen mask on first before trying to help another with their mask. That's so you are in a position to help and you both don't suffocate.
What does that mean?
@@kinza.fatima It means the person you're trying to help might attempt to
drag you down with them. That's not helpful to neither of you.
Say you're rescuing someones life from drowning. The underlying risk is they might cling to you and pull you under water putting your own life at stake. What you _should_ do instead is help them cautiously. This by swimming with your legs ready to kick away if they try exactly that.
Edit: Didn't first realise Peterson mentioned the lifeguard scenario in this video.
Wow! I think I know why I have been ignored by certain people in my life. I was drowning and I was just trying to pull them under with me.
#RealityCheck
MICHAEL WILLIAMSON hard to face I know, I feel ive done the same
MICHAEL WILLIAMSON me too. Well I wasn't trying to pull them under me.. I was just too codependent.
damn yeah me too :(
I don’t know you, but I’m proud of you. Making this realisation about yourself is huge and I hope you reap positive changes in your relationships from it.
I love your realization man.
"Dont cast pearls before a swine" my uncle said these exact same words... he is not even a christian or a learned man...damn the ways are gods work
"Right , never try to help someone more than they are willing to help themselves.
I spent ten years trying to help someone with BPD. I'm not saying it didn't help them, but I will say, don't expect it to end well. One thing that didn't come up in this video but I'm sure Jordan would have some interesting comments on it, is that if we're open to it, we can learn a lot about why we DON'T stop helping. Their trauma can hook into your trauma and make you feel desperate to fix or heal them, like you could never abandon them, when deep down it is your own trauma that needs to be healed.
That’s a truly great insight. I’m of that opinion myself per what similar situation I’ve been thru in “just” ten months with someone… In the process, learning about myself, no doubt. To say the very least. Unfortunately it’s been emotionally traumatic at times.
I can relate to your comments. It's not possible to walk away when the person who's suffering is your only child, who has no friends and doesn't belong to any community as part of his mental health issues. So I'm the only person he can rely on to
I just hope that at least we won't drown together. We can only take a day at the time...for life... We are continuously seeking help. Fingers crossed, there's a light somewhere that we can go together...
Words of wisdom for sure. I can completely identify with this. Thanks for sharing
What he's trying to point out is that there are people who just need time to deal with it on their own. Intervening can just have the effect of delaying their own self-recovery. At the same time, there are some people who will never recover and who will refuse your help every time. JP is saying to recognize both of these scenarios and the best thing is to walk away.
openSUSE5 I don't know that he said to walk away exactly. I thought he said get your own life together and be a good example of how life can be lived differently.. ?
You can walk away, I'm just not sure that that's what he advising?
It's like feeding a dog, it will then rely on you for food. Left alone a dog will find their own food.
This isn't exact , I'm just trying to expand or add to the understanding. We all rely on someone but there comes a time when we must look after ourselves or we'll become dependent on them forever. You can be supportive without interfering , walking away just makes them feel abandoned.
Moose Face he’s saying exactly, literally that. Walk away. Do not engage whatsoever. If u meet them by accident, tastefully avoid because they will once again try to drag you into their problem. They’re like predators really.
@@mooseface1292 I think the bible summarizes it nicely. Help those that will help themselves
@@mooseface1292most people lack the boundaries to properly be an example of how to swim without being dragged down by the drowning person.
"If they aren't willing to not be lost you cannot help them"
Truer words have never been spoken.
"get your life together and manifest the reality of an alternative mode of being"..... a very powerful and beautiful concise expression of something very important; leading by example, not attempting to badger people into a better life.
The problem with a lot of the people I've dealt with, is they delusionally believe they're wisely following exactly this advice! " Well, 'I Tried To Help', but this failing person with all the 'Problems' wouldn't accept my 'Help'. So then I had no other choice but to give up on them. " Well, sure. Except In my experience, most of the people who styled themselves as some kind of long-suffering martyrs for all the "effort" they put into "giving help", weren't just unwittingly "making things worse". They were actually themselves the very source of all the abuse and exploitation and betrayal that CAUSED all the damned dysfunction in the relationship in the first place!
Beware of Narcissists who claim to be "trying to help". Be sure if you're thinking someone "needs your help", that you're actually capable of some genuine fucking empathy for people who are in genuine fucking need. You'd better be truly capable of engaging for some better motive than simply as another type of opportunity to try to make yourself feel/look important. Or "Virtuous". If we're gonna be referencing parables and stories from the New Testament, I'd start with one that's rather more well-known than the passages Peterson cited here: "You hypocrite! First remove the log from your OWN eye, then you may see clearly to remove the mote from the eye of your brother!"
You wanna really help someone that's "difficult"? First make sure that the REAL "difficulty" in the situation didn't actually originate with YOU. And then conversely, a word of caution for the people on the "need" side of the relationship... the ones who may be LOOKING for help: "Before you diagnose yourself with anxiety and depression, make sure you're not just completely surrounded by assholes."
oh boy this reply
If you need to talk I will listen.
I can appreciate where you're coming from with this, but Peterson's example are relating to people that you can be pretty assured have problems with them, such as Borderline Personality Disorder. It can also relate to people that continually complain about problems in life, but will not do anything to find solutions and waste your time by complaining.
My mother's friend suffered child sex abuse from a family member when she was young, and to make it worse she was largely disregarded by her family members as seeking attention. It was a horrible thing to have happened.
However, as she's gone on in life, she has made no effort to try and heal the pain or to seek help for her problems. She wants to settle down with a man, but is scared of any sexual contact, period. One man proposed to her THREE times and she turned him down. She would always come to my mother lamenting her relationship issues. After 5 years of this, my mum had enough. I had just been born. She would regularly meet and talk with her about her issues, but would refuse to see a psychologist or anyone else. That's when my mum cut her off. This friend was not good to be around. She was making no progress in her life and she always made other people sad by going on about her problems. Sitting around and playing the counselor role was not helping her.
Thanks for sharing this bit. It has made me aware of my own problems as well as another person I have been trying to reach. Thanks again.
Not Happy Not Lucky And I Don't Go hmm I'd try actually reading the Bible, man. Jesus wasn't always calm and gentle, he often confronted the hypocritical Jewish authority very sharply, referring to them as a "brood of vipers" even, because they were leading astray God's chosen people and that was a vicious crime against God and men because they were essentially leading people into hell in a handbasket with their bad example. also the tables were flipped over for a reason; the temple represented something. he didn't hate the people, he hated the sin and gross irreverence they were committing. his very nature (light) could not exist in the same space as such profound darkness, and so he pushed it out, as light often does.
again, try reading the Bible. you don't just plug things into it as you please, or at least not if you want to be wise. this constantly-mild-and-calm man you speak of you can call something else, but the only thing Jesus always was was *holy*. at times this holiness included mildness and equanimity. at other times it entailed a godly sense of justice, and this justice is comparable, again, to how light pushes out darkness; they can't really coexist in the same space, and Jesus couldn't help standing firm against those under the influence of darkness. i really recommend reading the Bible, and seeing what's there. God bless
By letting go, everything gets done"
Lao Tsu
I won’t lie. I love Jordan Peterson.
I needed this, I'm dealing with family and they're pulling me into the darkness with them while I'm tryna help them see the light... cuz I care so damn much..
I just gotta show them better than I can tell them
He's right, you have to wait and carry on. Even people who want help won't take it out of pride/stubbornness. So you leave the offer and take the presence. People always come around, and they always remember when they're ready too.
3:58 - This is true in so many ways. You get shamed with being called a quitter, but it's better to walk away then stay in a sick situation - be it a relationship, friendship, job, or any of the myriad interactions that make up a life. The only difference I'll take is that this is wisdom, but it can also be very cruel - or at least harsh. And walking away or letting someone go who you know is going to suffer often is very hard to do when we care for the person or the situation. Complicated stuff this being alive gig, but damn if it doesn't have it's moments!
Having listened to nearly all of his podcast lectures: in retrospect, this may have been one of the most influential segments and best pieces of advice I've ever received.
'Difficult' people (or people who are stuck in an obsessive negative rut) often tend to only wake up from it when something tangible happens to them, such as a bereavement/accident/massive change in their living arrangements/etc. They may even already know what they need to do to fix themselves; but knowing what you need to do and experiencing something that forces you to do what you need to do are two entirely different things.
There are endless stories of people having epiphanies later in life, being woken from a funk, and then finding purpose. But it never comes from advice from another person's mouth; it comes as a response to a major event.
I hope I get hit by a car then
I have BPD and I realized I have a serious problem only after I hurt the person I loved the most. He cut ties with me and it forced me to realize that I cant keep hurting people this way. Today I’m a completely different person with morals and self control. Losing him was the hardest thing I went through in my life but without this event I would’ve never changed.
@@someone4379 same. Hi-five. Even worst I hurt many other people but without this, I will never realize what's wrong with me.
As sad as it is to say this, Peterson is 100% correct. It's unfortunate, but it's true. I have a friend who has been abused pretty much her whole life - being belittled and criticized by her mom as well as her ex husband. She's a shell of a person. I love her to death and do my best to support her, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to have helped much. She's been seeing therapists and psychiatrists for over 30 years and it doesn't seem to be helping, although she has told me on numerous occasions that she's glad I've come into her life - I was hospitalized for depression and met her there in the psychiatric unit. I was talking to my father (who also cares for her a lot) about the situation and was lamenting about how sad the situation is and he sad - "she may be a lost cause." I think this is one of the most heartbreaking things a person can go through - it's heartbreaking on two levels - seeing someone you love very much, knowing you can't help them, as well as the guilt a person feels if they decide to sever ties with the person who has the intractable problem.
Sound and very good advice.....know the bit about saving a drowning person....saved someone once from drowning but had to push them away first before I could reach out to save them.......and in life this is what one has to do sometimes in order to be sure of one's own capacity to help another. And the 'pearl before swine' analogy is brilliant.....one has to know one's limits and have healthy boundaries in order to maintain one's own important integrity.
I've suspected as much for a long time. It really clears things up hearing him articulate it so well tho. I grew up as the only child of a singel, extremely pathological parent, and Petersons stuff has really helped me come to terms with that. You da man, Dr. P!
Don't fight to help, you impose your desire not help.
Truth is often harder to hear, especially when you need it most. The things he's saying are so intensely true! I suffer BPD but I have been working diligently to learn as much as I can about it, how to put some of my self back together, many parts of me have been fractured since before I was old enough to talk. This man has a way of shining light on different and often difficult lessons, that speaks to parts of me that refuse to listen to any "common knowledge " or therapist in some office. My intellectual self has been my biggest enemy, I couldn't make the right decisions, because None of the "professionals " had a clue about my mental illness, or I was cunning enough to mask it. The last part more likely than not. But either way, over the last 8 years I have made significant progress toward the goal of being minimally effected by the crippling mental instability and distress as well as, doing everything in my power not to inflict any of my issues on my 4 children. Truth be told, having them made me realize that I could compensate my fear of abandonment with my determination to always be the best that I can be for my kids no matter what. I can't control someone else decisions, but i can and do control mine. This helped ground me and give me a peace within the torrent of emotions I surf on a daily basis. Dr.Peterson's lectures and talks have helped me to internalize many difficult concepts I had contemplated for many years, that not only unified me, but helped lift me so far above my understanding that I can sincerely feel like the healing I've needed for so long, is finally starting to manifest in all aspects of my life.
I saw this video a few years ago and just in the previous few weeks used its insight thanks for sharing.
Very wise words, and so true!
This is why I eventually stopped trying to help my mother -- she didn't want to be helped.
Well... as someone diagnosed with BPD myself, I can say that all he said is soooo damn true! I mean, I've lived my whole life drowning and drowning and drowning as if pain, anger, sadness and some moments of huge sick euphoria were all I was capable of feeling. And God knows how many people I've drowned with me until I found someone who were brave enough to go deep down the ocean to offer me a hand.
I wish I could say that I held his hand immediately and we lived happily ever after but... no.
It took me almost 10 years to truly hold his hand and finally swim back up. Yes, I am one of the "lucky" ones and I really don't have words to let you guys know how grateful I am to have found this someone whom today is my hubby.
I mean, it's extremely hard to find someone willing to wait patiently all those years hoping that someday you will decide "not to keep lost".
One big reason that made me "want to stop being lost" was his unconditional love, patience and respect for me. I say "unconditional love" because I can't understand how much love it takes for someone to stay years and years living in hell, enduring so much suffering as he did. I mean, REAL SUFFERING!
I almost drowned him with me, it took so little for both of us die in deep water.
I'm so grateful for his patience, for his resilience and for his unconditional love. That all saved my life, it wasn't easy though.
And I'm not saying you should do as he did and live in hell for years with a "difficult person" "hoping" someday she will accept your help. She might accept it or... not. The question is: Are you willing to be drowned by that someone deep into an ocean of turmoil, sadness, anger and sick euphoria? Because that's a risk you'll be taking. If you think it's worth it, just go for it. I hope you too get lucky ♡ But if you think that you will be able to help that difficult person and she will quickly and miraculously "stop being lost", just stop it because it won't happen like that!
Your hubby have a christ like character. Im so happy for you :)
This came at the PERFECT time for my current situation. Thank you, Dr. P!!!
I am learning so much, and so grateful!!!
It's sad. Because people who have huge ego's don't know they are lost and they think the world is against them. But if they just stopped for a minute... to breathe and just listen.. they would realize life is going to happen with or without you And there is nothing you can do to physically change people's minds to make the world a better place... you nailed it when you said "By example" .. but they will never notice because their Ego is blocking their vision. It's as simple a fix as we choose to make it. But the battle is within
Brilliant advice 🙏
Yes!
Every job my mother has ever had "someone" is out to get her, someone treats her wrongly, she doesnt want to be there anymore. Then she finds a "better" job with "much better" people and the cycle begins again.. She also does it to me. Always playing the victim. I gave up a long time ago on trying to explain that not everything is about her.
Tanya Battaglia Yh that crap is tough, and it can really be annoying, you probably should create some distance if you haven’t already because mindsets can be like diseases they can spread and infect given enough time.
@@anthonytran8850 I agree, it can spread which is scary. I did distance myself a while back mostly because I want to keep the peace and like you said its annoying. I have 2 small children so Im trying to be a good example for them by not arguing. Even at 5 & 7 they've understood to just walk away when she gets angry(which is on a regular bases). My goal is to get out of here asap.
I have a big mouth myself and didnt realize until I started ignoring her how much of a skill it is to just say nothing when she starts talking haha
Tanya Battaglia I see well I just hope you will recognize that there are some people where compromise and arguments can develop into a better outcome in this case it’s just that the person you have to argue with is really not that open minded
So much truth. I used to be a total joke(r), ironic and sarcastic, couldn't take anything seriously, myself included. Been dating a BPD girl for three years and instinctively had to get my act together, stopped lying and learned to stand up for myself, the hard way. Taught me more about what I am and what I value. It's been painful growing out of my deeply bitter shell, realizing that I wasn't that bad off. Not sure if I am using her to get my act together or if she's using me. Maybe I wanted to prove myself how strong I am. It's still harsh and far from what I imagined love to be like. Probably not gonna last forever but yeah, there is something to gain even when you think you're helping. Just make sure you're not getting consumed. Thanks JP for all your lessons, the strength of your word spreads in ripples underneath the everyday chatter.
Yes agree, some cannot do not want help...walk away. It did not feel good I have to say, it was the hardest thing I had to do, and for a while I was regretful, but there was a personality disorder in the mix and it was beyond my coping skill and my love .
Thank you speaking truth Dr. Jordan Peterson. Your wisdom has helped me so much. God bless you, your work and your loved ones.
the hardest part of me watching these videos is trying to figure out (when applicable) which party i am, am i offering the help, or failing to take it?
Thank you...❤️❤️❤️
That is amazing that this video just showed up on my timeline because literally I just hung up the phone with my NPD mother and I showed her nothing but love after we had a difficult day yesterday shopping and I called her to show her that I appreciate her and loved her and it surprised her so showing by example is something that would work
This is very good advice. I think alot of very caring and kind people don't know where to draw the line and walk away, I've seen this alot and myself have been guilty of this.
Only Jordan Peterson can make me excited about the bible. :)
JP's view of the bible - as a collection of general aphorisms with universal application - is the LEAST intelligent and enlightening way of approaching the book.
termsofusepolice
Could you elaborate please?
@@termsofusepolice Yes, I'm curious to hear how you rank the different ways to approach the Bible text, and why.
Incidentally, one of the ways I use the Bible text (not by any means the only way) is as a language study text. If you're looking for things translated into less mainstream languages, it's the easiest to find. I go to the Unbound Bible and pull up three or four translations (none of them English, so I don't have that crutch around to make my brain lazy), and work on figuring out the patterns of whichever language I'm focused on. I've even tried to work out Romani and Basque with no study materials other than this text -- as though I were Daniel Jackson from Stargate, trying to work out a language I'd never seen before, without having access to textbooks or audio resources at all.
@@EltonoutoftheclosetOfficial Very simply the best approach involves using historical context to deduce the intent of the speaker/writer via the way the words were received by their intended audience. This would be the case whether we're talking about the letters of Paul or the Gettysburg address.
@@PragmaticEntertainment People just confuse the bible with priests.. We should just read more so that our eyes open and we can see over the horizon.
I entered a relationship with a girl with BPD. I have been leading by example for months and she is now well on the way to living a normal existence. I was able to show her that a different life was possible. Crucially she was willing to change. People with BPD are usually incredibly perceptive, have great empathy and emotionally intelligent. She is no different. She is quite frankly a remarkable women. I was apprehensive at first becoming involved with a partner who has BPD but she has taught me a great deal not just about her condition but life too.
How did you do it?
They seem to make incredible arguments to fuel their misery.
I know this is an old thread but it has to be pointed out that if your girlfriend had the consciousness to know she had bpd, half the battle is already won.
Hi glad to hear it. How is it going for you now?
This is actually brilliant and genuinely practical/WORKABLE advice.
Thank you 🌷I really needed to hear THIS 💛
0:58
“Well then you _are_ lost!”
- Obi-Wan Kenobi
Some people don't know when they see that love has found them in many ways they can't hold it because of the responsibility it requires.
Love the tie!! It is so positive looking. Thank you for sharing your wisdom
I love the way Jordan Peterson shouts his words, his love, his methodical knowledge into the Universe. I recognise it, it's an inner stance that simply WANTS to express itself, to be of assistance to bring the world to a better place. At least, it's my drive as far as I know.
MANIFEST THE REALITY OF AN ALTERNATIVE MODE OF BEING
I got stuck on this comment. I replayed and replayed it. Is he suggesting that we try to offer an example in ourselves of what pwBPD cannot understand or see for themselves?
I once got a $100 bonus at work. On my way home i noticed a barefoot elderly homeless man who i had seen before and tried to offer him the money to buy shoes for the winter (his feet looked frostbitten).
The saddest thing is that he refused it; not because he didn't want the money but because "No one just gives away $100". We engaged in a long debate about how i must be an undercover cop trying to frame him for soliciting money. My arguments and honesty did nothing and he gradually convinced himself i was a undercover cop. It was truly depressing to see a guy whose story must be so sad that he couldn't understand kindness from a stranger.
I hope to see that man on the train again i know he'll be there alot this winter perhaps my continued interest will be enough of an anomaly to break his false mental image of who i am. But i won't argue the point. I'll simply remind him "I just want to help... "
Maybe instead of the money directly, he will take new shoes? Try that next time when you see him💕
One other thing might happen, too. This I learned professionally (after being "woke"): You may get him to take the shoes OR the money, but the next time you see him he will be barefoot again. He probably gave them away to a person he wanted to help.
Dale, by offering money your are in fact perpetuating that person's dire straits. Why beg when you can have better life working and contributing?
Did you know that some beggars were purposefully crippled and maimed (broken arms, feet, etc) to extract more pity money from the public?
One of the most impactful talks l've heard.
Thanks so much Jordan Peterson
I needed to hear these words a long time ago. I tried to help my boyfriend to get out of the hole he was in, we loved each other truly. I tried and tried but i saw that he really didn’t appreciated it, it seemed like he didn’t need my help(?) and was dragging me down in a hole with him. It was hardest decision to leave him. but now i feel way better mentally.
I had girl friend with BPD and what he described is exactly how i felt.. someone who is drawning whom i am trying to help not wanting my help and pulling me down with herself. at the end i had no options but to walk away. she set me back good few years in life and career etc... i woukd have been totally gone if i stock around .at the end of it all u will realise there arent any option but one and that is walking away like Jordan suggested .
Amazing! Thank you.
i figured that when i tried helping my mentally ill ex. i tried to help her but she doesn't want help so i came up to the conclusion that you can't help someone who refuses help.
I really needed to hear this. Thank you Dr. Peterson.
Wow, this was amazing and so true... difficult to apply sometimes though.
"manifest the reality of an alternative mode of being".......Manifest (to bring something into reality) alternative (something other than what it is - different) mode of being (the way or manner or how you go about existing IN yourself or IN the world.
huh... I get this suggested and Ive been trying to help my friend earlier this week... holy shit! This is very helpfull!
thanks. i really needed to hear this exact message right now... 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Profound quotes...words to live by. Thank you, sir. 😉👍❤
I think a lot of people don't accept help because they don't trust the person offering it. Too many people think they are helping when they step into someone's life to "fix" things, but they neglect to build a real relationship with the person. There needs to be genuine charity and caring and trust. I think his advice here applies to when you're in a full, deep, real relationship with the person.
Most people are too shallow to understand this.And people in the comments are fangirling over this Peterson. Thank you, pretty lady.
A kung fu master once told me-
If you're saving somebody from drowning, take your jumper/sweater off and use it as a Lifeline. If the person drowning is flailing and pulling you in, let go of the jumper/sweater.
This works in life too.
Deep lesson.
I've experienced this exact thing over the past 6 years. I live with a friend, he has MDD, he has been in a "shut in" state for almost 2 decades, and it got worse and worse, until recently. Largely due to the fact he could not find employment for quite some time, was living in a very mad mindset that life was over for him, over the past 2 years that has changed.
At first when I moved in with him 6 years ago, he was in a terrible state, and trying to budge him, trying to help, confrontation even with the most kid-like gloves you could handle someone, would be met with dismissal, irritation, and anger. His MDD caused him to go almost homicidal before he realised and got on medication for his mental state, and that was years before I moved in with him.Basically confronting him even with the kid gloves would be met with lash out attitude,and phrases such as "i'll just fucking burn the place down if it's a fucking problem".
Basically, i'll explain it as this; when I moved in his father had just died a couple of months before, he lived with his father, did not have a good relationship with him, it was simply the case he let him live there to avoid family drama. However his father was a hoarder, so the place was filled floor to roof, and multiple inaccessible rooms, with absolute fucking garbage, just shit everywhere.
In the first 2 weeks I cleaned the place top to bottom and we cleared the majority of it out, except a few nooks and grannies,and most importantly, his room. His room is/was his little escape from everything in the world and he did NOT want it to change.
His room was a literal pile of rubbish, from the door to the back wall, his queen size bed had a small patch in it that had... not nothing, but less stuff on it, so he could sleep in that little nook. He had to do athletics to get in and out of his room as the rubbish literally piled to the door (and spilled out into the hallway when he opened it, half the time).
As you can guess, his rooms stinks like nothing else. It is rancid, and despite being a guy who's pretty resilient to smells, has had dogs all his life, has worked some pretty damn smelly jobs, the smell was repulsive, and would actually create an anger response, sort of how misophonia does with noises.
It was so bad you could not air dry clothes even outside the doors to access the place, because they would end up stinking like his room.
So that has been a great source of discomfort for me for the past 6 years. However, I learned that confronting him resulted in nothing, so instead i've worked on.... showing him the better life available. First the place was carpeted, and that holds stink, so I ripped up all the carpet in.. "my" area of the house, and replaced it with floorboards, I organized the kitchen, got little bits of furniture (the place had absolutely none) to make the place feel better, improved my own life habits, just told him about shit I was doing, how awesome (or shit) it was.
Overall just took the passive approach. Over the past 6 months he's finally started to get better. We ended up floorboarding most of "his" area of the place, we are still working on fixing up his room, but I motivated him by buying him a few bits of furniture, including a new decent bed. And he's slowly chiseling into it. Literally moving mountains compared to he refusing to budge that he was before.
But yes, 6 years is a long time to help someone who obviously didn't want to help themselves. But he is a good friend, and drops everything to help people, just never wanted to help himself.
Still not perfect,but as I said, leaps and bounds ahead of where he had buried himself previously.
2 weeks ago I was diagnosed BPD. The way I look at this is, Sometimes it takes a depressive episode, or otherwise known as hitting rock bottom that needs to take place in order for the BPD individual to aknowledge something isn't right. And be more open to receiving help.
We’re told on airplanes if the oxygen masks drop to first apply the masks to ourselves before helping others. So that at least someone is conscious to help others.
I was diagnosed with BPD two years ago. I suffered with self-harm, anxiety and so much anger. The only way I was able to recover was when I found my reason for existing.
Long story short, I became a firm believer in Christ and I am not ashamed to say that He is the reason I am no longer in that horrid state of mind. Through His omniscient point of view, I saw both my worth and unworthiness. That's when I decided I will live my life for the One who knows my true identity.
When I recovered, I decided to pursue a master's degree in physics. I plunged into the realm of quantum physics and learned that material reality is not what it seems (this really helped with my episodes of derealization and PTSD).
The thing about having BPD is that you absolutely feel lost in terms of identity. You desperately hold on to anything that adds to your sense of worth. Then when it vanishes, so does your will to exist. It's usually what triggers derealization. While derealizing, you start remembering all the traumatic events that happened to you in the past-- and you believe that's what confines and defines your sense of identity.
BPD's are broken individuals who are desperately searching for a stable identity which they lost or never knew due to severe abuse. While they haven't found it yet, they feel empty and worthless.
You put it so well. I'm in recovery now after derealizing. Hope everything goes well for all of us.
Maybe this is the answer for BPD treatment? Give them an actual person and let them depends on them for a while and then leave them?
Its a very key point. A great additional contemplation with this, is WHAT IS IT IN YOU that is keeping you hooked into impossible/personality disordered people? I was stuck with really distorted individuals for a LONG time, nearly had my life destroyed by narcissistic men. It was a gnarly playing out of very early programmed dynamics with my Father, who is a degree of covert narcissism. There were MANY aspects of myself I had to investigate, unwind, and dissolve before I was no longer enslaved to those who wish to willingly drown.
Thank you. I just left them all behind recently. Blessings.
Naruto is sure not gonna be happy when he hears this Peterson.
Rahul Krishna believe it
I think I understand his initial laugh regarding BPD. I dont feel like I had a choice in leaving my sister behind. It is hard not to feel guilt after her suicide. I found the discussion about them pulling you down and drowning you useful. After four years of my sister behaving this way, I had dreams that she would have easily shot me first if I had been around at the time. I think that when I am awake. I don't know if I will ever process this, exactly. It seems such an unusually harsh reality.
coreycox2345 your words are heartbreaking but beautifully put.
You did the best you could. You also had to protect yourself.
I will focus on getting my life together. It is all I can do
If you ever care to materialise, I will always wonder about you. Yesterday only shows me that you are more than one person. And that others have a more direct channel. Which man are you? The one who hates me? So long, the other one who has helped me? I am willing, but not if you treat women as a sub species. I don't need to believe one way or the other. Either you are quite repellant or the opposite. I will stop thinking about it until you become real. If that ever happens. I am not going to depend on someone so sketchy. You sort yourself out. Come back as the good one. I would love that. If the other, I am not sure what I did to make you so angry. Whatever my role it was not intentional. It will be better for you to stay away unless you get over your anger.
No, you just gave up on a member of your OWN family. Shame on you, that's disgusting. There is nothing worse than people who disregard their own flesh and blood.
Fur Queue It's real easy to berate someone when you haven't faced what they've faced. Honestly, I can't imagine what it must be like and condolences to her sister.
Fur Queue if a Person is toxic then they're out of my life period i don't care family or not. Grow a pair
An excellent answer again!
thank you for posting
Lol wat, I've been lifeguarding pools for 3 years on and off - nobody taught me this feet up thing.
Peterson filling the gaps in my knowledge once again!
This rings true in my life. I have a brother, who may have depersoonalization disorder, who shares the sentiment of fluid reality and distance from his self as a vessel. This video has not swayed me to give up on him, especially with the things he's put me through and the chaos its thrown on my relaity. but it puts thing in perspective. I have hope that he may manifest an alternative mode of being, for survival. I cannot help him anymore. But i have faith in God, or some entity of unknowing, nothingness, that he finds his way searches himself and his experiences.
People try to solve the universes hardest posed questions, but forget one thing; their humanity. Astronauts are thrown into states of literal nothigness. the only way they can survive is through a literal vessel, a spaceship of certainty navigating the dark. To survive, they must be optimists.
That particular disorder is NOTHING but anxiety. The story he has fabricated around it is bullshit. I’ve had it for 13 years and am a Psych student specialising in dissociative disorders and anxiety.
His brain has switched off elements of experience because it found it too overwhelming. There is nothing special about the experience, nothing out there or intangible. It’s simply a dulling and disconnection from experience.
Keto diet, daily meditation, socialisation, exercise, therapy and Ashwagandha supplements really help (although the latter can cause anxiety in some but they’re mostly helpful).
Dp/Dr is about getting the brain to come out of hiding again and to calm the nervous system down, flip the fight or flight switch back off. It can be done.
M M he's doing much better these days. it was hard to live with what he was selling but his disturbances rang true. He just had to face some of his internal fears and appreciate his simplicities he decided to grow the f up, so not as many weird catatonic episodes
Thank you!
That's a really powerful statement thank you for sharing
My decision to ostracize myself from my stepson was and has been a very tortuous one for me, however this discussion reaffirms that I was definately making the right move in distancing him from my home due to his heroin addiction.
I took him back into my home twice in the mistaken idea that I would be the one in his life that would be able to offer a chance of a re-birth and a chance to succeed, away from his addiction....and I suppose in the end perhaps, emerge the lone hero...
In the end I came to the conclusion that it was either him or me... so I kicked his ass out, once and for all.
He's back in rehab again, difference being that I've had to embrace my own neurosis that was playing a role in my desire to help....I will not be so naive in the future
My subconscious took over after 4 or 5 days of no sleep/dissociating and brought order to my life. writing everything down helped. Luckily I had been listening to JBP for a while before my manic episode. Best thing my family did was leave me alone while I sorted everything out. But I did get locked up "involuntarily" for 2-3weeks when I went willingly. Which was unfortunate as I was stuck in lock down facility with only 3, 30min walks a day. Mental health facilities should incorporate more nature into the healing environment, it's way to sterile.
michaelfcp better than i have been in decades. Whole life has turned around for the better. Finally taking control of things i can change.
michaelfcp diagnosed bipolar aka manic depressive. Got off SSRIs during my manic episode. They were killing me. I notice my mood swings but have healthy coping a strategies like music and exercise.
michaelfcp thanks for your kind words. Luckly I'm only type 1 so my downswings only last couple of days and arent severe. I just get grumpy. But with SSRIs aka paxel I was one depressed lazy sob with no purpose for a long time after going through chemo for 2 yrs back in 2008-2010 in my early 20s. Never dealt with that and some childhood trauma of things witnesssed. Broke down the ptsd walls during manic episode. Rebuilding life from the ground up with help of JBP video advice, his methods really do work.
But I also made connections with someone special to me which keeps me going.
michaelfcp Sorry to hear about your mom. :( it can be really hard for those around us at times.
Lol that's being spoiled I could go many days without going outside.
This is a bitter pill to swallow, but many times the truth is hard to take. Several years ago, my brother-in-law, my sister, and I were watching an episode of "Hoarders" and there was a woman on that particular episode who was so grief stricken about her mother's loss she couldn't throw anything away that reminded her of her mom - even saved a piece of her wedding cake. It was the most heartbreaking thing I ever saw. We were talking about it and my brother-in-law said - "sometimes people fall and they can't get back up." That's the case with a dear friend of mine - she's fallen and she can't get back up. I think about these things a lot and I definitely agree that a person should be taught how to help themselves, but what if a person is so beaten down they've lost the will to help themselves? What do you do? I realize that in the process of helping another person you can't go down the drain with them because then both of you are lost, but it's still hard to walk away. It's an ethical dilemma that doesn't seem to have a satisfactory answer.
Excellent!!
You can tell a man about it, but you can't force a man to leave a cave and witness the sun
My mother used to specialize in treating BPD. VERY hard to help these people.
No it's not, but you have to think outside what you know, so most people, like your mother, have no idea what to do. You cannot interact directly with what they're saying but the following are how you DO help.
NUNBER 1 - Be genuienly happy and satisfied with your life and personality, you cant help without this
Number 2 - when they're emotionally upset, keep it calm (not sterile), and listen but dont get pulled into their whirlpool
Number 3 - don't blame the or reason too much, just step back, think what an emotionally calm reaction ought to have been, and talk to them like that, they will hook in easily to your new and better emotional state and take your lead generally
Number 4 - remember anyone could end up in the place they're in and treat them with respect in that regard. If you were tortured daily, youd be exactly the same
5 - What most people call borderline
Fur Queue seems you have a self centered view.. why should anyone bend over backwards to help a person with bpd? Why are they entitled to special treatment? Seriously get over yourself.
@@davidcraig7771 Mostly likely, he or she has BPD and know themselves better and can tell you a healthy approach. OP’s mother has studied and trained to help those with BPD, so is unable to clearly step in their shoes if she doesn’t deal with BPD herself. And that’s a big difference. Most people can’t handle it, and rightfully so, so they don’t have the necessary patience or understanding and likely swept things under the rug earlier in the relationship. Having a honest discussion with those with BPD from the get go, instead allowing small trails (signs) to become bigger is where most people go wrong and unable to deal with BPD people.
Love your work. Thank you.
I gave up helping my aunt with her severe hoarding but we do go out to dinner every two weeks and that does help her lonliness and we both enjoy it.
It's easy to help a borderline, all we need is validation of the herrondose child abuse and all the abusers that has caused the mental torment we have to deal with sent to prison .The lack of parenting we had causes poor judgment in adult hood and until we are told or come to recognize it , we repeat patterns .I wasn't cared for or protected as a child nor did I have good role models.what I went through was horrendous, I don't play victim or take it out on others but my mother did on me .luckily I was taken from her care .I went to doctors and physicists for over 20 years knowing that something wasn't right deep inside I felt empty hurt .All I needed was someone to tell my families dirty hidden secrets too. I didn't get any empathy at all, they made me feel like my family and father told me daily " a burden " to them .cold judgemental not at all giving explanations to what's wrong how I can change it .20 years of struggling with my own children who I brought up alone I finally got a diagnosis it wasn't " just depression anxiety or bi polar it was emotional instability. You over the pond call it BPD .I'm not neurotic nor am I narcissistic or psychopathic .I am not manipulative but I do get manipulated all the time by narcissistic men who are like my father .It's hard to trust now after years of the same awful humans ,we are difficult....how do you think we feel knowing this yet feel like we're drowning constantly?? It's difficult living with this and been alienated by everyone.I came on UA-cam age 39 years old to find out what BPD was .I cut myself off 11 years ago from the world after my sister tragically died .Since listening to all of what everyone has to say and reading all the comments I find it disgraceful....I know now why the NHS was so cold and tarring me with the same brush as everyone else diagnosed with personality disorders. I put my trust and my grief in the hands of Good Lord and trust we all meet our maker one day and then maybe my questions of why this life been so cruel ? I am not a cruel person I'm very empathetic I am very kind and caring .I wouldn't hurt another or treat another in the way I have. I haven't ever accepted my BPD but I do have your books and I fit maybe half of the criteria plus CPTD. I believe that you can grow out of BPD and we can be helped .....But the worst one is narcissistic PD you can not help them , they never go for help because they are totally deluded and wish to harm others from any gain they can .users master manipulators....They are the ones you need to classified as the most dangerous premeditated evil , they cause the borderline women like myself. Christians believe we have demons inside us ??really well before anyone of you start attacking me I've been to the Pentecostal church and put myself unknowingly though another traumatic experience with that one .So now I hope there gone and chased away ! Exercise yoga swimming plus medications, sleep no drinking or drugs other then what's given which rots my brain and body but keeps me calm stable and saying away from knobhead men works a treat for me . All good now 😊
And may I add that I haven't finished reading all the bible yet but it shouldn't be allowed to be making money for someone's misfortunes in life and I believe if your going Into helping people with mental health care been in what ever position your in especially England .you should be doing it to help others from your heart and not thinking of your wage slip .nhs health care providers don't care dispite what they say .charity workers are the real earth angels helping those in need . Amen
Thanks for taking your time to read this .I hope I helped some who are suffering like me or wanting to help .
The parent child bond never happens in the first years that's when the unbalance starts we are then stacked up with more and more fight or flight ..my mother myself and my daughter suffer with chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia...years of toll effects the whole body as you know .I actually found my release by training in martial arts muay Thai .i studied and practice yoga and meditation.then it's not until you see others parents are with there family's that you start to realize this is how life 's meant to be .the therapist sat pretty acting nice asked questions all she wrote was used as evidence against me ....DBT sessions all I was told in the 20 sessions was what I was already on to mindfulness meditation exercise yoga swimming activity that raised happy hormones helped get me back grounded. No answers was given to my many questions and she didn't teach me a thing at all.that is the only therapy il ever be offered again in the UK .SO sitting pretty and being nice and fake smiles isn't going help if I I ain't allowed to get it out what's clogging up my mind ...DBT i bought the book myself to learn at home..pysc nurses was very cold not having energy to help we actually feel saddened by this ...we feel a lot we had to be intuitive from a young age to sense whAt danger another adult could do ....so we sense a lot of professional with lots of knowledge to help us don't seem to want to we feel the hate .the whole traumatized victim should be allowed to cry tell there pain to release it .I found alternative therapy works best for me . I swim so I don't drowned and I bend so I don't break .a a lot can be said for good friends too helping others through it .. I exchange money that I need to help myself get better and the only wanted cash didn't teach me ... Charity's help me be here today ALIVE better in a nice home safe away from dangers ,secure ...so I can now look forward to the New chapter in my life iv turned a page on moved on left the hell and New lease of life " grandmother to my soon to born granddaughter" so BPD can leave .my daughter went through same family karma but were all moving on and breaking that tie now
Your inability to take responsibility for anything in your life is poisoning you. Stop blaming and move forward. Men are not evil. BPD and Narcissism are two sides of the same coin. They're Cluster B Personality Disorders. You are not perfect and innocent. The way you frame yourself is obviously a problem. This is Covert Narcissism. Look it up. Stop playing the victim, even if you were once victimized. I was abused for over 20 years too, but you will never get better until you see how you enabled it and then move on.
A good B-complex, a good multivitamin with purified cod liver oil, and a nourishing diet....no sugary junk food....or artificial sweetners or chemicals....and most all health issues, esp emotional liability issues go away. At least that's what the latest orthomolecular science is finding. Time to take the bull by the horns, and get crackin on solutions to amend the damage. No one else can do it for another.
Lol that second New Testament passage he referenced sounded like three or four different ones spliced together.
There’s the time Jesus was sending out the disciples and he told them that if a town rejected the good news that they should just leave - even going so far as to knock the dust of that town off of their sandals.
There’s the time Jesus visited his home town and then, after he shared some choice words in the local synagogue, the town sought to throw him off of a cliff, but he just walked through the mob and left without a word.
There’s the passage where his family was calling for him to come home because they thought he had gone crazy, but he basically disowned them, saying that “Whoever does the will of my Father is my mother, brother, and sister.”
There’s the passage where some not-named person he called to follow him said he first needed to go bury a relative, to which Jesus replied “Let the dead bury the dead.”
And finally there’s the passage where Jesus as an older kid/young adult got separated from his parents, and when Mary chastised him for running off, he was all like “How could you not know I’d be about my father’s business?”
I might try to pull the actual references later and edit them into this comment, but I encourage you to look them up yourself.
With each Dr. Peterson video, I feel calmer & more free from the rippling effects of the character disorders & maladaptive behaviors in my birth family.