@@poppinlochnesshopster3249 trust me in a few years people will go back to slightly heavier mice again. like at least 60-70g. 30-40g or even lower is just not it
I used to work for a local retailer that stocked Finalmouse. Eventually we had to drop them completely, as they would outright ignore our warranty claims from them and we eventually had to compensate customers out of pocket.
This man needs supply of every brand to do reviews of new products. Always good information in such a short time and high quality production and interesting content.
love how most of the time when digging for the best hardware available it's always some compagny that makes like 3 model per year, they're allergic to money at this point, or they're trying to keep the hype up by making supply low on purpose, like a ferrari mindset
I’ve never considered Finalmouse as an option as it’s pretty much impossible to get my hands on them. Hopefully they add some transparency on when the next batch will be available if it’s truly continuous production.
@@KeenScout. People are mainly waiting on the large variant and small one. Medium took ages to sell out. Tbf, you have to be there on the day of the drop to get it but, unlike the original starlights this is much easier to get.
Your test of two "identical" mice being different makes sense and it would actually be pretty awesome if you provided data on variance between mice that are supposed to be the same. Hardware works within tolerances, and it would be nice to know which companies are responsible about consistency.
I think this also might be a case of interference. Not in terms of malfunction or even a significant influence but when you put two transmitting devices right next to each other, especially when they're the same brand, you can't rule out any interference quirks.
@@UnimatrixUA-cam Not even interference, most likely just USB input polling differences. Switch the mice's USB ports and you'll probably see that tiny difference flip. This is why the dedicated testing box makes more sense than comparing multiple connected devices at the same time
You are asking a UA-camr for manufacturer retailer-grade sample size... You do realize that 2, 3, 5, even 10 mice of the same type wouldn't be enough to get the kind of information you want, correct?
@@fuibancontafake3057 Sounds like you are just trying to flaunt that youv've taken a college course in statistics but I'll respond anyway. Evidence from this video shows that just comparing two showed variations (maybe due to manufacturing tolerances). There are many things that can vary more with timing, sourcing blah blah blah. Comparing two even from the same run still has value just to flag if they are different. It's the sort of test I'm suggesting to do when the opportunity is there. I'm not suggesting to go buy 3 more of every mouse he has ever tested, especially considering 90% of people are using about 3 different options at the top of the line.
My main criticism of this video is how you lowballed both G-Wolves, Lamzu, and Glorious(shocker one too) whether it was unintentional or not. Most people who buy these mice set their debounce a lot lower, so testing it at 0-2 ms debounce makes sense. I have never heard of someone using a Lamzu Atlantis at the default debounce at 12 ms. Also, I’m 100% sure those Chinese mice you tested are not their latest/pro version. The Lamzu Atlantis you tested was the compx mcu and not the pro version using the Nordic one. Also, the 4k version of the G-Wolves mice at 4k should be on par with Razer and Logitech.
@@MrKapusij It would be ok if he did stock versions only, but changing polling rates and setting the GPX 2 to optical mode requires software. Just like how debounce settings also require software.
Excelelnt video but as some constructive criticism in future I think it would be better to perform tests using the lowest debounce settings for all mice. This would give a more accurage display of click latency as I think most people are adjusting their settings on their mice if they are buying from brands like Pulsar, G-Wolves and Lamzu. These are quite niche brands which are bought primarily by enthusiasts who are more likely to understand mice settings.
I’ll acknowledge these products exist when FinalMouse stops using scarcity as a selling point. The company has said before that they’re “stepping up production” just for products to continue to be extremely limited, so I have no reason to think of them as an actual brand worth considering.
@@asnd..8349 And that's literally what every marketing team says when they realize that "customers are getting sick of their lies". Wait for proof or just don't cry when you get fleeced because they somehow "fail to live up to their words due to blah blah blah".
@@asnd..8349 Actions speak louder than words. Until I see them actually prove that they'll do it, you can't trust them. Also, even then their products are consistently overpriced shit
By "continually available," you mean exactly the same as we had before, but the [Buy] button stays lit with a constant sold out. Got it. Yeah that's totally different. 😂
Hey Optimum you never reviewed the HSK Pro 4k (29g) mouse. It was made for fingertip grip, its pretty small, extremely light, 4k polling rate. You reviewed HSK before but not this mouse specifically that is newer, I'd love to know your thoughts on it since we have the same grip style and I trust your judgment.
I’ve been watching you since when you first started talking about the ncase m1. You have gotten better and better. quality, information, testing methods, you always go above and beyond for each video. You’ve opened my eyes to many different niches of the pc world and I can’t wait to see what you post next.
Definitely nice that we can see accurate mouse comparisons in terms of click latency. Although I don't think that the click delay is that important (as long as it is consistent and not constantly changing), I am looking forward to the sensor testing the most. Polling stability/wireless stability and sensor delay are the most important things to be able to test IMO. It's the main thing you "feel" when playing in-game. Also not sure how the XLAT would be able to record sensor latency without a reference of what the sensor is trying to record.
Logi doesn't run in the background. You can save all the settings directly to the mouse. Downside is its a program not a browser. So you have to install it anytime you want to make changes.
Not having a software running in the background is a nice thing. But the web configurator has 2 issues: if they release a new version you are forced to use it no matter what and if they shut down service you cannot configure your mouse anymore.
there's probably more than a few 3395/2khz+ configurable mice out there that don't require software to be running at all times. in fact, i don't even think logitech actually require you to have the hub software running once you have everything configured, though it's been a while since i've used one so can't confirm that.
Your attention to detail with testing is insane. Not to discount LTT but when you’re comparing budgets you are doing far more with far less in terms of resources. Thank you for doing this for the community.
Ya, seriously. Ltt is more of a content farm house. Given what this dude does solo, they could do a lot more, but focus on goofy content. Linus is a sales man first and it shows.
Yea I agree with you but LTT seems to be targeting a much more casual audience where testing like this might seem boring or go over their heads. At least in their recent mouse reviews such as the pulsar x2 randomfrankp edition they ran some latency testing which was good, but I think they are more entertainment focused compared to people like optimum.
@@rem_sleep03 I think with LTT labs they are focusing more on the enthusiast crowd who actually care about things like frame timing and latency. The lab is great and they’ve addressed the issues that people raised but for a one man team Ali is just killing it. One of the most reputable reviewers and testers for gaming hardware.
Thank you for the continuous quality of the videos! You deserve waaaaay more subscribers than you currently have. This mouse looks like the one I might buy if your mouse doesn't come out in 2024 :D once again, thank you and keep these videos coming! Best wishes from Lithuania
Still waiting for the 1st pre-orders to ship from August 1st, drop listed 8 week estimated shipping date and it's been 12 weeks now classic Final Mouse.
Its funny that back in the days mice had extra storage with small weights you could put in to tune the mouse to your liking. And today they honeycomb the outer shell as much as possible to get the weight as low as possible.
@@BMDubsE93 sweaty competitive games always existed, people just got more educated and take "pro gaming" more serious than they did before, resulting in scientific advancement within the games and equipment.
Isn’t final mouse a terrible company? I’ve seen so many complaints online about how they treat their customers. Have there been changes? I don’t want to support bad companies.
This new mouse looks excellent, but honestly I'm more excited for reviewers having more objective tools to test mice across the full price range. Given Finalmouse's click tensioning claims, I'd also like to see click force/distance plotting for different mice with the average actuation points displayed alongside.
I just went from a regular g pro to a superlight and oml taking your high scores on aim trainers and making them your average when your dead tired and have barely spent time with a mouse. I kind of made a personal rule not to go lighter or less friction until I felt physically restricted. Maybe one day ill go lighter but as of an hour ago I haven't felt mouse control like that in months.
would love to see Pulsar's latest mice using the XLAT to see how they stack up against the best. I currently main a Pulsar X2H Mini with the 4k dongle (running at 2k).
This is the video I wanted. I recently got G-Wolves HSK Pro 4K, and I had my eyes on the UX since I'm currently switching to fingertip. I really like the HSK and I wanted a feedback on the UX before committing to getting a small variant. Good to see you are really positive about it.
I've been watching his videos since years ago, I'm so sad that it somehow unsubscribed me there's no way i did that while noticing. Absolutely my favourite out of everyone - extremely professional; filming, colour grading, data and analytics, sumary and breakdown etc. Can't wait for you to hit 1m and beyond!
My favorite software was Pulsar's. You open it really fast, you click what you need and you close it. End of story. Web browser is cool, but they need to make it really safe. The way they pushed limits, really nice, but for me 38g is to light. 60-65 is my sweet spot.
Web browser software is cross operating system compatible and cheaper to make. You could even configure your mouse through android phone if you wanted to, you just need Google Chrome available with webusb support and any OS will work (great for Linux/MacOS people).
Hopefully they can keep up with demand, I detest the whole drops and scarcity business model, I get that it generates maximum hype but its so annoying constantly seeing a "sold out, come back soon" page every time you try to get one.
It would be really cool to see a deep dive test in regards to how much mouse weight actually matters and how big of a difference it makes past the initial adjustment phase. I feel that most mice are already so light, that the small decreases in weight we now see likely make no big difference in performance, outside of placebo. Again, would love to see the actual benifits of a lighter mouse that you won't get with a slightly heavier mouse, once you've adjusted your plaustyle to the heavier/lighter weight.
I had the finalmouse air58, i loved it but it wore in somewhat reasonable time. Ever since then I've had a GPX. It's a great mouse but lately with mice becoming lighter and battery life becoming longer, polling rates getting higher I've been thinking about upgrading. I think in a bit I'll look further into the ULX. Especially if they can get their stock and shipping business sorted. (Finalmouse shipping is the worst thing to happen to mankind)
People are just now starting today getting their ULX LOL. I also had an AIR58 gave to my buddy making a new PC, those were so nice, currently on the Starlight Phantom and it's been pretty great so far. You could do some weight reduction to the gpx if you really wanted it to last longer or feel better, just watch some beardedbob videos and see how much you can do to it.
Also still on the gpx, have been using it for about three years now and it still works really well but I really wanna try something lighter which holds up just as good
Great vid! Can you re-visit the Xtrfy MZ1 Wireless anytime? After many year and many mice I have now found that there is no question it gives me better aim consistently. It does take some time to get used to the shape at first but I really feel the shape is superior and gives better precision than these "normal" shapes.
Happy to see you got your copy and thanks for sharing! I'm still waiting for the Tiger (large) to be released. From the outline that I've seen, it's nearly identical in size and shape of my copies of the GPX Superlight! 👍😎 For my hands, the medium Finalmouse is a little too small for a proper grip and putting grip tape all over it to make it bigger is a little crazy.
I'm glad they are finally stepping up production. They've been making industry leading mice for awhile now, just no one could buy them (and if they could also knock off the twitter cringe posting that'd be cool too)
How the fuck have I never heard of you before? You’re by far the best mouse review channel I’ve ever seen. You’ve taken this so far that you ended up creating your own mouse.. just wow man, keep doing you.
Thanks for another quality review, you are my go-to tech guy on youtube by now, and that by a large margin :) Did you ever think about setting up a website, condensing the information regarding recommendations you made for a quick access? So far, basically independent of product class, your reviews have been so relatable and in-depth that I would love being able to just have a quick look on a list based on your conclusions and just buy a whole setup on that basis lol Edit: Just thought about it and kinda came to the conclusion, that it might be unrewarding not even being able to reap the youtube monetization, regarding the time, effort and money you put in your reviews. Sorry if that might've been a selfish request, did not really think that through :p
i dont wanna say its not a damn amazing mouse, but with finalboys attitude and them announcing it at 33g then changing the weight silently twice its not the free thinker non plus ultra everyone hypes it up to be.
The small size(Superlight X Cheetah) has claimed 29g weight, compared to 37g claimed on large(superlight X Tiger). i would love to see your take on it.
Regarding movement latency, I have a concern with starting the motion from standstill. It could have different results depending on the software implementation, the latency could be different in motion. The difference with static friction and dynamic friction of the mouse skates and mouse pad together with tolerances could affect the result too. So I what I would recommend instead is something like moving the mouse on one axis and then adding motion on another axis and measuring the latency of when the motion changes. Or sudden (de)acceleration on the same direction. This is more realistic for a situation of continuously tracking a target.
1:38 Unfortunately, opening a web browser breaks the HDR metadata handshake on Windows, so I have to break HDR tonemapping in order to change my mouse settings.
A mouse with this many cutouts will never be on my radar as the cleaning seems nightmareish, but that browser based software seems like a game changer, I'd hope more app devs go this route as having 5 different apps running in the background and hogging close to a gig of ram just so I could change RGB or a macro is just straight up vile.
I wish he would talk about why the Zaunkoenig M2K has, by far, the lowest click latency, which would be because their switches are using latch debouncing, something I wish more reviewers would talk about. Also, Finalmouse was not the first to implement a web interface for their mouse management software. Atompalm was.
You were the inspiration for me to buy the Wooting 60HE, the keyboard I'm using to type this message. Your work is peak levels of professionalism and accuracy.
Soon mice will be $200+. Suddenly gaming companies think everyone is rich. A $1500 bells and whistles PC just 3 yrs ago will now cost $4500 or more thanks to the overpriced hardware. Its already out of reach for most people, and a $200 mouse doesn't help, regardless of weight, build, etc.
You don't have to buy the best or rather the most hyped hardware. Remember that mid and lower end gets better and better as well. Mid today is yesterdays best. You can be the best player with cheap hardware. Skill and hard work matters most.
Can't wait for sensor motion latency tests. According to Rtings Zaunkoenig M2K has really high motion latency but I don't know how accurate their tests are.
some questions you might or might not be able to read or answer: first question: since you said you are planning on improving on your Zeromouse project or similiar, I wanted to ask if there are any updates on the front? second and more important question for me personally: in your Zeromouse video you mentioned a few reasons why you could not or decided to not provide the community with the files to print the mouse yourself, you gave reasons such as that the accuracy and process needed for properly making the zeromouse are something not everyone would be capable along with other things, I personally from the beginning however thought even if it only helps a single person it would benefit the community more if you would decide to gracefully bless the community with the files, now as you said it will probably not even be more cost efficient however every human being is different and has different preferences and I believe people could modify the files if provided to show this diversity of the human mind. Since I myself do not dabble in the areas of 3d printing or creating anything creative personally I could not really say how these modifications could look but I am sure some people even if only for them selves will find themselves changing something if the files where to be provided (the only thing i could come up with is maybe a different mousewheel that is wieder or slimmer or maybe someone wants space to integrate a fingerprint scanner. I will leave creative work to creative people. I thank everyone for reading and feedback! I mean after all I could be wrong and the only solution that makes sense is buying it from you and not changing anything.
The way they're sending mouse clicks outside of the polling rate is interesting, USB is capable of a lot more than people think. Polling rate itself is also a bit misunderstood, while a rate of 10ms(p) (100Hz) can be guaranteed, defining the polling rate does not guarantee that data will be transferred every 10ms but rather that the transaction will occur somewhere within the tenth frame. Polling is also called an interrupt transfer, there's also control transfers that essentially act like packets, and isochronous transfers that are used for real-time information like A/V data that needs to be sent at a constant bitrate. Though there is a fourth transfer type, bulk transfers, that acts similar to interrupt transfers but without the polling rate, they use the entire bus bandwidth but only transfer after other transfers have finished, as bulk packets of 512 bytes under USB 2.x high-speed; an example of this is printers, where bulk packets get dumped to the device where the exact time frame isn't important. I think, hypothetically, sending a bulk transfer between polling requests could be possible, as an inter-polling packet, though I'm not sure if this does work. I'm also not sure if USB 3.x introduced anything newer to the spec that allows for this kind of usage, I'm also having trouble finding anything on the topic regarding 3.x specs as Google in its braindead lack of wisdom wants to only give me results concerning transfer speeds rather than transfer types. I also find the nomenclature of 'interrupt transfer' a bit odd, as traditionally an interrupt is a device pinging the CPU for attention whereas polling where the CPU polls a device for information at a fixed rate, and thus USB is inherently poll-only and non-interrupt; though with everything being ICs with their own processing now, I guess those lines can be blurred. Beyond this, USB 2.x high-speed is only limited to 125μs(p) [8KHz] polling, and though I cannot find definitive fact in spec it's seemingly apparent that 3.x uses a simulated polling rate with upwards of 42.6μs(p [24KHz] simulated polling, but also that a transaction can occur at any time. So either Finalmouse has somehow figured out inter-polling on USB 2.x, or Finalmouse is one of the first, if not the first, peripheral manufacturer to properly utilize USB 3.x or 4 where they're not playing the simulated polling game, or some kind of hybrid of simulated polling for most functions with an instant transaction of other functions. Of course the product doesn't actually state it's connectivity spec outside of the port used, and I doubt Finalmouse will actually disclose what they're doing. Though with sensor movement, I can understand why simulated polling would be used, every little twitch of the sensor would be reported and there'd be so much junk data, simulated polling would at least keep things clean. But at the same time, the 8Khz limit leads me to believe that all of these devices are still inherently on the 2.x spec; maybe they do so for the nonissue of 2.x port compatibility? Either way it's an interesting development and I wish more peripherals would move away from the polling rate nonsense or lock polling to the device's microcontroller and just have intervaled reports related to specific functions, such as sensor devices where switches could otherwise not be locked to that rate. It'd be interesting to see if a USB 2.x port actually breaks the black magic of the inter-polled clicks, otherwise confirming either side of the hypothesis.
I’m pretty sure finalmouse is just polling the dongle at 8khz and skipping the polls that don’t match up with the sensor polling rate but allowing click events to be sent in between sensor updates allowing the clicks to be sent on polls that would have otherwise been empty.
you should build your mod kit for the ULX not for production or a drop but just for yourself personally and make a vid on it ! Awesome video as usual! you’re the best out there right now!
Its crazy that im sitting here with my original G Pro wireless and I actually feel like im missing out. 2 years ago people would envy you for having one of these. I mean this thing only weighs 80g but it seems so heavy all of a sudden
I started using a Keychron M3 Mini wireless mouse 4k polling rate. The mouse is only 69.99 and yet upon testing it in aim trainer software I've found my performance has improved significantly over my Logitech G Pro Superlight. Recommend checking it out. Wish I could run latency tests myself.
Love how you are never satisfied and looking for better testing techniques. Keep up the amazing work.
There was a point in time where a gaming mouse had weights 😂
There was a point in time where people would smoke before athletic events. Our knowledge grows!
@@poppinlochnesshopster3249 trust me in a few years people will go back to slightly heavier mice again. like at least 60-70g. 30-40g or even lower is just not it
@@poppinlochnesshopster3249 We knew exactly that weights are utter bullshit tho. I mean, at least some of us.
I still have one of those 😂
Loved my g9x and maxing out the weights. But at the same time I played on 3200dpi with a 3.4in/360, so the weights were mandatory
I used to work for a local retailer that stocked Finalmouse.
Eventually we had to drop them completely, as they would outright ignore our warranty claims from them and we eventually had to compensate customers out of pocket.
Microcenter?
@@HumongousFish Microcenter! my favourite local, small, startup, tech retailer!
@@itsPoliswirl same bro it's amazing
You know what they say, if it's micro its small and if it's a center thats bound for some plenters
They only did Amazon for old drops and then Maxgaming for the Starlight 12 Tenz so wut?
This man needs supply of every brand to do reviews of new products. Always good information in such a short time and high quality production and interesting content.
Finalmouse fails where it counts. Can't actually buy the thing.
love how most of the time when digging for the best hardware available it's always some compagny that makes like 3 model per year, they're allergic to money at this point, or they're trying to keep the hype up by making supply low on purpose, like a ferrari mindset
Still - even if I could - 250 bucks? Nah.
😂
Im Australian and because our economy is failing that mouse costs 380$ here
the production quality and amount of raw testing is absolutely incredible
Can it handle coke cola?
I like cooked testing
they delayed this shit for so long its been 3 months since everyone ordered😭
just tested it and you can use the mouse submerged in coca-cola.@@asr1el942
@@Megis4Life It's just a mouse...calm down.
I’ve never considered Finalmouse as an option as it’s pretty much impossible to get my hands on them. Hopefully they add some transparency on when the next batch will be available if it’s truly continuous production.
Ha, sure
The first batch it didnt sell out for 3 hours. Since people are no longer scalping them lol.
If you’re in the discord they usually update it there
They're doing drops while the demand is higher than what they can output. Eventually when people have them, they'll be in stock.
@@KeenScout. People are mainly waiting on the large variant and small one. Medium took ages to sell out. Tbf, you have to be there on the day of the drop to get it but, unlike the original starlights this is much easier to get.
Your test of two "identical" mice being different makes sense and it would actually be pretty awesome if you provided data on variance between mice that are supposed to be the same. Hardware works within tolerances, and it would be nice to know which companies are responsible about consistency.
I think this also might be a case of interference. Not in terms of malfunction or even a significant influence but when you put two transmitting devices right next to each other, especially when they're the same brand, you can't rule out any interference quirks.
@@UnimatrixUA-cam Not even interference, most likely just USB input polling differences. Switch the mice's USB ports and you'll probably see that tiny difference flip. This is why the dedicated testing box makes more sense than comparing multiple connected devices at the same time
You are asking a UA-camr for manufacturer retailer-grade sample size...
You do realize that 2, 3, 5, even 10 mice of the same type wouldn't be enough to get the kind of information you want, correct?
@@fuibancontafake3057 Sounds like you are just trying to flaunt that youv've taken a college course in statistics but I'll respond anyway. Evidence from this video shows that just comparing two showed variations (maybe due to manufacturing tolerances). There are many things that can vary more with timing, sourcing blah blah blah. Comparing two even from the same run still has value just to flag if they are different. It's the sort of test I'm suggesting to do when the opportunity is there. I'm not suggesting to go buy 3 more of every mouse he has ever tested, especially considering 90% of people are using about 3 different options at the top of the line.
they should be selling these for $149 not $180
My main criticism of this video is how you lowballed both G-Wolves, Lamzu, and Glorious(shocker one too) whether it was unintentional or not. Most people who buy these mice set their debounce a lot lower, so testing it at 0-2 ms debounce makes sense. I have never heard of someone using a Lamzu Atlantis at the default debounce at 12 ms. Also, I’m 100% sure those Chinese mice you tested are not their latest/pro version. The Lamzu Atlantis you tested was the compx mcu and not the pro version using the Nordic one. Also, the 4k version of the G-Wolves mice at 4k should be on par with Razer and Logitech.
We definitely need more thorough testing. This is bothering me too.
@@MrKapusij It would be ok if he did stock versions only, but changing polling rates and setting the GPX 2 to optical mode requires software. Just like how debounce settings also require software.
He said those were the mice comparable with xlat. It doesn't work with all mice off the bat
@@cmo8627 I never said stock only. I said that those options might not exist for small mice brands because the code isn't there to receive it yet.
@@Evan-xs8ts It’s more so because he doesn’t have the pro versions of these mice.
Excelelnt video but as some constructive criticism in future I think it would be better to perform tests using the lowest debounce settings for all mice. This would give a more accurage display of click latency as I think most people are adjusting their settings on their mice if they are buying from brands like Pulsar, G-Wolves and Lamzu. These are quite niche brands which are bought primarily by enthusiasts who are more likely to understand mice settings.
you'd be surprised by the amount of people who just buy those without knowing a thing about mice...
@@7immy the issue was that he did in fact changed the settings for 5 of the mice despite keeping it all stock.
I’ll acknowledge these products exist when FinalMouse stops using scarcity as a selling point. The company has said before that they’re “stepping up production” just for products to continue to be extremely limited, so I have no reason to think of them as an actual brand worth considering.
Bro did u hear what he said literally 10 seconds into the video? ??? He said this will be the first mouse that will stay in a consistent production
@@asnd..8349it’s literally sold out lol and been sold out.
@@asnd..8349 And that's literally what every marketing team says when they realize that "customers are getting sick of their lies". Wait for proof or just don't cry when you get fleeced because they somehow "fail to live up to their words due to blah blah blah".
@@asnd..8349 Has it happened yet? op literally wrote they'll be "stepping up production" and look where they are...
@@asnd..8349 Actions speak louder than words. Until I see them actually prove that they'll do it, you can't trust them. Also, even then their products are consistently overpriced shit
By "continually available," you mean exactly the same as we had before, but the [Buy] button stays lit with a constant sold out. Got it. Yeah that's totally different. 😂
yep exactly lol
LOL
they totally paid him for this review lol
@@vanesoko no they didn't
why don't they sell on Amazon ? Other smaller brands do
Your videos look like legit movies, that's how good the editing and production quality is. Marvellous work.
awesome video man! your testing is getting so much better with every video
Hey Optimum you never reviewed the HSK Pro 4k (29g) mouse. It was made for fingertip grip, its pretty small, extremely light, 4k polling rate.
You reviewed HSK before but not this mouse specifically that is newer, I'd love to know your thoughts on it since we have the same grip style and I trust your judgment.
i swear how do you improve every single video so much
easily the best reviewing channel on youtube
Agreed
I’ve been watching you since when you first started talking about the ncase m1. You have gotten better and better. quality, information, testing methods, you always go above and beyond for each video. You’ve opened my eyes to many different niches of the pc world and I can’t wait to see what you post next.
The amount of work put into those videos is absolutely insane
Man all your videos lately have been incredible.
Love this content!
Time to add another mouse to my collection
Optimum really loves doing youtube and it shows. Thank you for doing so much work to entertain and inform us, Ali.
Definitely nice that we can see accurate mouse comparisons in terms of click latency. Although I don't think that the click delay is that important (as long as it is consistent and not constantly changing), I am looking forward to the sensor testing the most. Polling stability/wireless stability and sensor delay are the most important things to be able to test IMO. It's the main thing you "feel" when playing in-game.
Also not sure how the XLAT would be able to record sensor latency without a reference of what the sensor is trying to record.
Sensor latency > Click latency
your commitment to continousley improving your testing is insane. can't wait to get my hands on the ULX when it finally ships
Finally a continous production Finalmouse product
Been waiting forever
Could you do an updated mouse video for certain budgets in 2024? Under $100, $250$ under, 500+?
Logi doesn't run in the background. You can save all the settings directly to the mouse. Downside is its a program not a browser. So you have to install it anytime you want to make changes.
Not having a software running in the background is a nice thing. But the web configurator has 2 issues: if they release a new version you are forced to use it no matter what and if they shut down service you cannot configure your mouse anymore.
there's probably more than a few 3395/2khz+ configurable mice out there that don't require software to be running at all times. in fact, i don't even think logitech actually require you to have the hub software running once you have everything configured, though it's been a while since i've used one so can't confirm that.
most mid to high end mice had onboard memory. you only need to run the software once to configure it, save it, and then you can just uninstall it
theres probably also a software version but u dont have to use it
Which is no problem since this is an enthusiast product where few will lag behind when it comes to versions and new products.
@@neofaktionawful take
Your attention to detail with testing is insane. Not to discount LTT but when you’re comparing budgets you are doing far more with far less in terms of resources. Thank you for doing this for the community.
Ya, seriously. Ltt is more of a content farm house. Given what this dude does solo, they could do a lot more, but focus on goofy content. Linus is a sales man first and it shows.
Yea I agree with you but LTT seems to be targeting a much more casual audience where testing like this might seem boring or go over their heads. At least in their recent mouse reviews such as the pulsar x2 randomfrankp edition they ran some latency testing which was good, but I think they are more entertainment focused compared to people like optimum.
@@rem_sleep03 I think with LTT labs they are focusing more on the enthusiast crowd who actually care about things like frame timing and latency. The lab is great and they’ve addressed the issues that people raised but for a one man team Ali is just killing it. One of the most reputable reviewers and testers for gaming hardware.
I mean you’re free to discount LTT and their lack of ethics.
@@__vhadid you conveniently forget about how inaccurate ltt's testing is?
Thank you for the continuous quality of the videos! You deserve waaaaay more subscribers than you currently have. This mouse looks like the one I might buy if your mouse doesn't come out in 2024 :D once again, thank you and keep these videos coming! Best wishes from Lithuania
Still waiting for the 1st pre-orders to ship from August 1st, drop listed 8 week estimated shipping date and it's been 12 weeks now classic Final Mouse.
Get this man to a million! Great video, quality and attention to detail is great
i think you still need to include gpx superlight gen1/v1 in chart, due to still many gamers outhere using it.
gpx1 would be on place 2 that is why he missed it.
hm? @@cOoLm0Dz
never skipping optimums videos. congrats on becoming t500
Its funny that back in the days mice had extra storage with small weights you could put in to tune the mouse to your liking. And today they honeycomb the outer shell as much as possible to get the weight as low as possible.
That's because there is a lot of sweaty competitive games now.
@@BMDubsE93 sweaty competitive games always existed, people just got more educated and take "pro gaming" more serious than they did before, resulting in scientific advancement within the games and equipment.
What about the G Wolves HTX 4K. Which is 39grams and is plastic with phenomenal build quality. I would argue after two months of use is right on par.
Holy... the production value of these videos is insane!
Isn’t final mouse a terrible company? I’ve seen so many complaints online about how they treat their customers. Have there been changes? I don’t want to support bad companies.
i mean they advertised this as 32 grams and now revealed 2 days ago its actually 38 grams lmao. almost 20% increase
This new mouse looks excellent, but honestly I'm more excited for reviewers having more objective tools to test mice across the full price range. Given Finalmouse's click tensioning claims, I'd also like to see click force/distance plotting for different mice with the average actuation points displayed alongside.
This would also objectively show pre/post travel, which is honestly really useful
they dont include any razer 4k or 8k mouse for click latency, bummer
i wonder how the QC is. i've had 3 finalmice and every single one had some kind of issue.
I just went from a regular g pro to a superlight and oml taking your high scores on aim trainers and making them your average when your dead tired and have barely spent time with a mouse. I kind of made a personal rule not to go lighter or less friction until I felt physically restricted. Maybe one day ill go lighter but as of an hour ago I haven't felt mouse control like that in months.
That's exactly how I explained it to someone. The consistency once you get to 60g is crazy.
Yeah there is literally not a single tech youtuber on the planet that does it better than you. You're just the goat reviewer 🐐
Cannot get enough of your reviews and content
For once, a Finalmouse seems worth the premium cost
Nope
Yeah....sure....
@@CiceroFryman-t8n in comparison to the Viper Mini Scam Edition, absolutely
My Starlight was worth every penny
Not that much more than super light 2
A full sized gaming mouse that weighs less than 40 grams is insane, the crazy weight savings.
viper mini signature edition or WHATEVER THAT THING IS. Nice, Optimum!
Good luck getting one. First drop was August 1st, and we are still waiting for them to ship out...
would love to see Pulsar's latest mice using the XLAT to see how they stack up against the best. I currently main a Pulsar X2H Mini with the 4k dongle (running at 2k).
This guy is an actual gaming tech giga chad. Love your work!
This is the video I wanted. I recently got G-Wolves HSK Pro 4K, and I had my eyes on the UX since I'm currently switching to fingertip. I really like the HSK and I wanted a feedback on the UX before committing to getting a small variant. Good to see you are really positive about it.
29gram small is gonna turn out to be 34 lmao
hsk is better for pure FT and lighter.
@@riba2233 hsk pro supremacy
found your channel yesterday, now my favorite content creator!👍
I've been watching his videos since years ago, I'm so sad that it somehow unsubscribed me there's no way i did that while noticing. Absolutely my favourite out of everyone - extremely professional; filming, colour grading, data and analytics, sumary and breakdown etc. Can't wait for you to hit 1m and beyond!
My favorite software was Pulsar's.
You open it really fast, you click what you need and you close it. End of story. Web browser is cool, but they need to make it really safe.
The way they pushed limits, really nice, but for me 38g is to light. 60-65 is my sweet spot.
Web browser software is cross operating system compatible and cheaper to make. You could even configure your mouse through android phone if you wanted to, you just need Google Chrome available with webusb support and any OS will work (great for Linux/MacOS people).
Hopefully they can keep up with demand, I detest the whole drops and scarcity business model, I get that it generates maximum hype but its so annoying constantly seeing a "sold out, come back soon" page every time you try to get one.
They can't
@@NotAGovernmentAgent lol shocker
It would be really cool to see a deep dive test in regards to how much mouse weight actually matters and how big of a difference it makes past the initial adjustment phase.
I feel that most mice are already so light, that the small decreases in weight we now see likely make no big difference in performance, outside of placebo.
Again, would love to see the actual benifits of a lighter mouse that you won't get with a slightly heavier mouse, once you've adjusted your plaustyle to the heavier/lighter weight.
honestly, at this low of a weight, youre better off getting faster mouse skates and mousepads than you are trying to decrease the weight
But the real question is which makes you better at bastion.
The effort you put into variable isolation alone makes your testing some of the best on this site
he didnt set debounce for a few of the mice, rip
I had the finalmouse air58, i loved it but it wore in somewhat reasonable time.
Ever since then I've had a GPX. It's a great mouse but lately with mice becoming lighter and battery life becoming longer, polling rates getting higher I've been thinking about upgrading.
I think in a bit I'll look further into the ULX. Especially if they can get their stock and shipping business sorted. (Finalmouse shipping is the worst thing to happen to mankind)
People are just now starting today getting their ULX LOL.
I also had an AIR58 gave to my buddy making a new PC, those were so nice, currently on the Starlight Phantom and it's been pretty great so far.
You could do some weight reduction to the gpx if you really wanted it to last longer or feel better, just watch some beardedbob videos and see how much you can do to it.
Also still on the gpx, have been using it for about three years now and it still works really well but I really wanna try something lighter which holds up just as good
The web browser based software is awesome, but does it work offline or with a saved version of the webpage?
Excellent review as always! I was so busy watching you slay the entire enemy team at 8:30 I had to restart that section 🤣
Great vid! Can you re-visit the Xtrfy MZ1 Wireless anytime? After many year and many mice I have now found that there is no question it gives me better aim consistently. It does take some time to get used to the shape at first but I really feel the shape is superior and gives better precision than these "normal" shapes.
not to be pedantic, but atompalm implemented a Web browser control system with their Hydrogrn and Hydrogen 2 mice a few months before final mouse
Happy to see you got your copy and thanks for sharing! I'm still waiting for the Tiger (large) to be released. From the outline that I've seen, it's nearly identical in size and shape of my copies of the GPX Superlight! 👍😎
For my hands, the medium Finalmouse is a little too small for a proper grip and putting grip tape all over it to make it bigger is a little crazy.
I'm glad they are finally stepping up production. They've been making industry leading mice for awhile now, just no one could buy them
(and if they could also knock off the twitter cringe posting that'd be cool too)
only months late to sending them out, and underweighing them by 6 grams
They are supporting the hamas
You still can hardly buy them
@@charredolivethe first drop was up for 30 minutes without being sold out, this is just straight up wrong.
The only "industry leading" thing before the ULX was the weight of their mice. Everything else wasn't in any way industry leading
How the fuck have I never heard of you before? You’re by far the best mouse review channel I’ve ever seen. You’ve taken this so far that you ended up creating your own mouse.. just wow man, keep doing you.
Optimum is that one hidden gem of a youtuber that once you find you are very satisfied.. Production quality is insane
you got my sub for having the new finalmouse before i did. been wondering where that order is. good vids man. keep it up
finally, the mouse i've been waiting for
thank you femboyenjoyer2309, very cool
The final mouse
Are you now still waiting to buy it? Because it seems permanently unavailable to me :0
@@tehehe5929 hell no i just got a lamzu and called it a day, WLmouse is literally just as good too if you want a finalmouse
Off the top of my head, this is the only Yt channel I immediately settle down to watch every time a new video is released
yep, watched it in WC with a massive grin on my face
3 minutes in I still don't know the size of the unit he received
It's medium, there is no large or small finished yet
According to the weight 38g should be large not medium
The first batches only had the medium variant. The first batch to have all the 3 sizes available will be in December, if I'm not mistaken.
@@Hope-gd6rm since when has final mouse ever been actuate with the weight of there mice
was waiting for this video for a long time and now im giga hyped for the mouse. thank you for the video.
your storytelling skills make every video captivating!
Thanks for another quality review, you are my go-to tech guy on youtube by now, and that by a large margin :)
Did you ever think about setting up a website, condensing the information regarding recommendations you made for a quick access? So far, basically independent of product class, your reviews have been so relatable and in-depth that I would love being able to just have a quick look on a list based on your conclusions and just buy a whole setup on that basis lol
Edit: Just thought about it and kinda came to the conclusion, that it might be unrewarding not even being able to reap the youtube monetization, regarding the time, effort and money you put in your reviews. Sorry if that might've been a selfish request, did not really think that through :p
i dont wanna say its not a damn amazing mouse, but with finalboys attitude and them announcing it at 33g then changing the weight silently twice its not the free thinker non plus ultra everyone hypes it up to be.
The small size(Superlight X Cheetah) has claimed 29g weight, compared to 37g claimed on large(superlight X Tiger). i would love to see your take on it.
Regarding movement latency, I have a concern with starting the motion from standstill. It could have different results depending on the software implementation, the latency could be different in motion. The difference with static friction and dynamic friction of the mouse skates and mouse pad together with tolerances could affect the result too.
So I what I would recommend instead is something like moving the mouse on one axis and then adding motion on another axis and measuring the latency of when the motion changes. Or sudden (de)acceleration on the same direction. This is more realistic for a situation of continuously tracking a target.
I've had the TenZ starlight mouse since it released, and I'm excited they are bringing back the large size that my original sunset had.
Hi, Ali are u interested in posting videos on Bilibili
Weight of mouse : 38g
Weight of hand : 400g
Now we just have to cut holes in our hands or shave off some fingers to make our hands lighter.
How can a 1000hz polling rate mouse have an average input lag lower than 0.5ms? Does that even make sense?
1:38
Unfortunately, opening a web browser breaks the HDR metadata handshake on Windows, so I have to break HDR tonemapping in order to change my mouse settings.
i mean this content is unmatched. period. i know people say this alot but damn, your vids are just way ahead. Great work as always!
A mouse with this many cutouts will never be on my radar as the cleaning seems nightmareish, but that browser based software seems like a game changer, I'd hope more app devs go this route as having 5 different apps running in the background and hogging close to a gig of ram just so I could change RGB or a macro is just straight up vile.
How is the battery? With my superlight i can charge in 1-2h and not bother for 5-7 days.
I wish he would talk about why the Zaunkoenig M2K has, by far, the lowest click latency, which would be because their switches are using latch debouncing, something I wish more reviewers would talk about.
Also, Finalmouse was not the first to implement a web interface for their mouse management software. Atompalm was.
You were the inspiration for me to buy the Wooting 60HE, the keyboard I'm using to type this message. Your work is peak levels of professionalism and accuracy.
damn kinda sad to see my lamzu being down the latency chart... wondering how the 4k lamzu compares?
PSA: there is a logitech software that doesn't run in the background, it's called "onboard memory manager"
"rock solid" lmao
Soon mice will be $200+. Suddenly gaming companies think everyone is rich. A $1500 bells and whistles PC just 3 yrs ago will now cost $4500 or more thanks to the overpriced hardware. Its already out of reach for most people, and a $200 mouse doesn't help, regardless of weight, build, etc.
You don't have to buy the best or rather the most hyped hardware. Remember that mid and lower end gets better and better as well. Mid today is yesterdays best. You can be the best player with cheap hardware. Skill and hard work matters most.
You forgot to add a link about the mouse you created in the description
Can't wait for sensor motion latency tests. According to Rtings Zaunkoenig M2K has really high motion latency but I don't know how accurate their tests are.
$200 bucks for a mouse with negligible performance increases.... LMFAO ya GTFO
some questions you might or might not be able to read or answer:
first question: since you said you are planning on improving on your Zeromouse project or similiar, I wanted to ask if there are any updates on the front?
second and more important question for me personally: in your Zeromouse video you mentioned a few reasons why you could not or decided to not provide the community with the files to print the mouse yourself, you gave reasons such as that the accuracy and process needed for properly making the zeromouse are something not everyone would be capable along with other things, I personally from the beginning however thought even if it only helps a single person it would benefit the community more if you would decide to gracefully bless the community with the files, now as you said it will probably not even be more cost efficient however every human being is different and has different preferences and I believe people could modify the files if provided to show this diversity of the human mind. Since I myself do not dabble in the areas of 3d printing or creating anything creative personally I could not really say how these modifications could look but I am sure some people even if only for them selves will find themselves changing something if the files where to be provided (the only thing i could come up with is maybe a different mousewheel that is wieder or slimmer or maybe someone wants space to integrate a fingerprint scanner. I will leave creative work to creative people.
I thank everyone for reading and feedback! I mean after all I could be wrong and the only solution that makes sense is buying it from you and not changing anything.
So you can’t change the settings on the mouse without being connected to the internet???…..
The way they're sending mouse clicks outside of the polling rate is interesting, USB is capable of a lot more than people think. Polling rate itself is also a bit misunderstood, while a rate of 10ms(p) (100Hz) can be guaranteed, defining the polling rate does not guarantee that data will be transferred every 10ms but rather that the transaction will occur somewhere within the tenth frame. Polling is also called an interrupt transfer, there's also control transfers that essentially act like packets, and isochronous transfers that are used for real-time information like A/V data that needs to be sent at a constant bitrate. Though there is a fourth transfer type, bulk transfers, that acts similar to interrupt transfers but without the polling rate, they use the entire bus bandwidth but only transfer after other transfers have finished, as bulk packets of 512 bytes under USB 2.x high-speed; an example of this is printers, where bulk packets get dumped to the device where the exact time frame isn't important. I think, hypothetically, sending a bulk transfer between polling requests could be possible, as an inter-polling packet, though I'm not sure if this does work. I'm also not sure if USB 3.x introduced anything newer to the spec that allows for this kind of usage, I'm also having trouble finding anything on the topic regarding 3.x specs as Google in its braindead lack of wisdom wants to only give me results concerning transfer speeds rather than transfer types. I also find the nomenclature of 'interrupt transfer' a bit odd, as traditionally an interrupt is a device pinging the CPU for attention whereas polling where the CPU polls a device for information at a fixed rate, and thus USB is inherently poll-only and non-interrupt; though with everything being ICs with their own processing now, I guess those lines can be blurred. Beyond this, USB 2.x high-speed is only limited to 125μs(p) [8KHz] polling, and though I cannot find definitive fact in spec it's seemingly apparent that 3.x uses a simulated polling rate with upwards of 42.6μs(p [24KHz] simulated polling, but also that a transaction can occur at any time.
So either Finalmouse has somehow figured out inter-polling on USB 2.x, or Finalmouse is one of the first, if not the first, peripheral manufacturer to properly utilize USB 3.x or 4 where they're not playing the simulated polling game, or some kind of hybrid of simulated polling for most functions with an instant transaction of other functions. Of course the product doesn't actually state it's connectivity spec outside of the port used, and I doubt Finalmouse will actually disclose what they're doing. Though with sensor movement, I can understand why simulated polling would be used, every little twitch of the sensor would be reported and there'd be so much junk data, simulated polling would at least keep things clean. But at the same time, the 8Khz limit leads me to believe that all of these devices are still inherently on the 2.x spec; maybe they do so for the nonissue of 2.x port compatibility? Either way it's an interesting development and I wish more peripherals would move away from the polling rate nonsense or lock polling to the device's microcontroller and just have intervaled reports related to specific functions, such as sensor devices where switches could otherwise not be locked to that rate. It'd be interesting to see if a USB 2.x port actually breaks the black magic of the inter-polled clicks, otherwise confirming either side of the hypothesis.
I’m pretty sure finalmouse is just polling the dongle at 8khz and skipping the polls that don’t match up with the sensor polling rate but allowing click events to be sent in between sensor updates allowing the clicks to be sent on polls that would have otherwise been empty.
I am a little sad that he never made a review or a test about the ninjutso sora v2.
Thanks Ali ! I use a Logitech G PRO X Superlight 2 . Also Using a Corsair Large sized claw grip,and a Handshoe mouse in right Large.
you should build your mod kit for the ULX
not for production or a drop but just for yourself personally and make a vid on it !
Awesome video as usual!
you’re the best out there right now!
anyone knows which mouse the 2nd (from the left) is at 1:00 ?
Razer deathadder v3 i think
Its crazy that im sitting here with my original G Pro wireless and I actually feel like im missing out. 2 years ago people would envy you for having one of these. I mean this thing only weighs 80g but it seems so heavy all of a sudden
I started using a Keychron M3 Mini wireless mouse 4k polling rate. The mouse is only 69.99 and yet upon testing it in aim trainer software I've found my performance has improved significantly over my Logitech G Pro Superlight. Recommend checking it out. Wish I could run latency tests myself.