Premium Chalks - Are They Worth It?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 23 тра 2024
- Dr. Dave objectively tests the most popular new “premium” chalks to see how they compare to traditional Master chalk. The chalks tested are the medium hardness Predator Pure, Kamui Roku 6, and Taom V10. They are tested for miscue limit, persistence on the tip, persistence on the CB, and cling/skid/kick.
Contents:
0:00 - Intro
0:49 - Miscue Limit
3:22 - # of Shots Before Miscue
5:17 - Chalk Mark Persistence
---- 5:38 - cling definition and demonstrations
---- 6:19 - FSR and SVB cling examples
---- 7:07 - chalk tests
8:42 - Cling/Skid/Kick
10:56 - Wrap Up
NOTE:
- The main advantages of the newer premium chalks is that they last longer and are cleaner, leaving less debris, residue, and stains on your hands, the cue, and the table.
- Taom should be pronounced “towm,” not “tah om.”
Supporting Resources:
- chalk testing resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/c...
- how to chalk properly: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/c...
- throw tutorial: billiards.colostate.edu/tutor...
- cling resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/t...
- recent FSR-SVB pro 8-ball match with cling happening in two consecutive games: ua-cam.com/users/liveoySFm6vKrko
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I've been using masters for 40 years but just last month, bought my first premium chalk. I'll never go back. Cue ball stays extremely clean, as does the table, and I'm doing way less maintenance on the equipment. Taom pyro is the bomb.
Try Taom V 2.0 next, it's even better
I will give it a go. Thanks
i love my pyro, but now im using the predator pure & its even better!! i dont know if im ever gonna switch again & i love trying new chalks
I'm a little surprised you didn't mention how much longer the premium chalks last. Makes the price a hair more justified.
Good point. I should have mentioned this along with the cleanliness factor.
That's what I was thinking. I typically burn through Master pretty quickly, but the Taom has been very good to me. I just started using my second one for the year last week, and I'm somewhere between 20 and 30 hours a week practicing (not counting actual playing time, just dedicated practice).
I play around 10h a week and Taom V10 lasts around 1,5 years. If it costs 15 dollars, the hourly cost will be 1,9 cents. I thinks it’s worth it if it gives you more confidence to shoot🤓
Heard some pool halls only allow blue chalk, ever experience this?
@@jtmarshall I have not, but it makes sense if they have blue cloth and want it to look cleaner longer.
Albin Ouschan was beside himself that SVB was using Master in the 8 ball final on sunday. Couldn't believe it!
I lot of people use Master chalk. I have for countless years also. Although, I like the newer cleaner chalks also. Cling/skid/kick is rare, but it is nice to make it even rarer.
thats why he needs the ref to clean the ball every 2 shots lmao
@@anhdang1460 I noticed. His choice of chalk seemed to work though.
@@DrDaveBilliards I've never used anything other than master. Maybe when the ones I have run out I'll try something else.
“Rare” is difficult to quantify… svb had three kicks in one rack during the 8 ball semi finals. Also saw missed a shot in the finals purely from kick. To win a world championship I think it’s worth it to pay an extra 20 bucks…
nice to see a new Dr Dave video! it's been a while
It felt good for me to get back into the swing of things also.
I use Taom V10 and I never have to clean my table and it always cotes my tip evenly and perfectly. It is 100% worth the cost. It also sticks to my break tip better than other types of chalk.
It's such a clean chalk! However is struggles to get on the phenolic tip of my break cue tho. Glad it works well for you
@@prakash.srn.17 yea I still have to rough my break tip up from time to time, but it is the way better than anything else I have tried.
I struggle with The predator pure chalk sticking to the bk rush at all with their BK tip that comes by default
@@napostrophen have you tried the v10 yet?
Thank you for your process as always, Dave.
You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
Outstanding video! The biggest issue, it appears, is cling because that is what can really cost you a game or match and it can happen if you are chalking up after every shot, or every fourth shot. The miscue limit with different chalks is what I have also found, they are about the same.
I use the green Taom. I like it because it doesn't get all over my shaft or my table. And 1 piece lasts quite a long time.
Much agreed!
My close friend loves the v10
I should have mentioned in the video how clean (in general) the premium chalk are.
One point not made in the video is, this advantage of using this chalk only applies if your opponent is using it too. Most of us are not pros so the residual chalk from other players is almost certain to be on there. I think the best attribute of premium chalk is that I don't have to clean my table or billiard balls nearly as often. Much easier on home maintenance!!
Good points.
Good observations and analysis. I like your videos for the analytical explanations as well as the physics involved. Another great video.
Thanks. I'm glad you liked it.
Top Snooker players have been using Toam for a while now and hit has significantly reduced kicks. Worth the $25 a block if it's you're living as it could make the difference between winning and losing but I'll just stick to the older cheap chalk that's been used for decades!
I was given a cylinder of Taom V10 a few months ago. I had used Master previously. V10 is, to me, worth the price. It works about the same, but is much better for a number of reasons.
First: your table stays clean, as do your hands and cue shaft. Second: it lasts many times longer, and the genius who designed the wrapper perforated it, so that as it wears you can evenly tear the paper back, so you don't wind up with a deep crater in the chalk which can damage the ferrule. No more need to take a utility knife to the paper on a cube. Third: it's much easier on cue balls: many fewer breaks in the finish and marks which can be difficult to remove. In fact, I had a badly marked amamith measles ball which had become a table decoration, and I put it back into service using taom chalk, and gradually all the marks disappeared. So, considering everything, V10 is the way to go.
The cleanliness factor is definitely important.
I'd like to also add the cleanliness factor on the cloth, your hands, and on your shaft.
The more expensive chalk is A LOT cleaner when applying. At the end of the night, you won't see a lot of chalk residue on your hand, your shaft, or even the table.
Master chalk is good but leaves behind a trail of marks and dirties your shaft a lot faster.
Good point. I should have mentioned the "cleanliness" factor in the video.
Another EXCELLENT and thorough test from Dr Dave. I totally enjoy all his videos as they are detailed, clear, and go into every aspect regarding the subject in question. He is always eloquent and clear talking as well.
I can attest to the excellence of TAOM V10 chalk. It lasts for ages (I’m still on #1 after nearly a year!), each chalking really DOES stay on the tip and not the cue ball. I chalk regularly and am nervous not doing so, so I can’t comment on its ’staying power’ but let’s say I haven’t had a miscue in AGES.
The biggest difference for me was in the hit. I get a more solid and responsive hit from Taom chalk. I’m not imagining it either as recently I went back to my previous chalk and noticed a difference instantly. I much prefer the Taom as it seems to instill a more solid ‘feel’ to each hit and therefore more control of the cue ball. I don’t know how they do it, but I’m sure glad they do! Taom V10 (green) for me. (NB Somehow I couldn’t get the same response or confidence from the blue Taom though)
I’m glad you liked the video. I should have mentioned that these premium chalks are cleaner and last longer. I have not noticed any difference in the “hit” of any chalks I have tested over the years.
Great stuff as always Doc!!! I swear by Taom chalks because of how much cleaner they are...not just for the purpose of avoiding skids, either...as a table owner, the immense difference in how dirty the table gets after using master is easy to notice because of how often the emklneeds cleaning... id much rather spend my time hitting more balls than I would cleaning them....
Good point. I should have mentioned the cleanliness factor in the video.
For one reason it kept ringing in my head that this video was inspired by that SVB v FSR match till I saw it...but informative as usuall thanks Dr. Dave I appreciate
The match was lucky timing. I was going to work on and post this video much sooner, but now I am glad I delayed.
Nice to see a new vid! I just use the regular master chalk and have been for years. Not sure Ill ever change to these new chalks since ive never really had an issue with Master. Cool tests tho!
Thanks. It is nice to be back. FYI, the choice of chalk is really not that important:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/comparison/
Another professionally produced video. Miscue limit and shots before miscue are minor factors. Cleanliness of equipment favors the hi end chalks. Cling, Kick and Skid manifested its self during the Shane Albin match. To be fare to all sponsors and players the cue ball should be cleaned with the shot clock stopped between innings.
Good points.
I play about 5 days a week and one Taom V10 lasts me about a year! It's clean to use n even survived a trip through the wash!
I should have mentioned longevity and cleanliness in the video. Those are important factors.
I have used Great White and I think it's slightly better than Masters. However, I now just use Masters because it does the job very well and isn't worth me wearing a chalk holder for. It's just not worth the hassle.
Another advantage with premium chalks is that the cloth, balls, inside of pockets, wooden shafts ++ is kept cleaner, resulting in the equipment lasting for longer.
Exactly, a home table cloth will last much longer. I shoot at a private club and we have serious thought to only allowing premium caulk to be used for that reason but decided you really can’t tell people what chalk to use. I’ve been using the v10 for about a year now and I love it.
Agreed. I should have mentioned in the video that the premium chalks are cleaner, in general.
Taom v10 is my favorite. I’m surprised you can get as many good hits with Master as Taom. That’s not been my experience. Even if Master is as good in that regard it makes my table dirty and that is reason enough for me to stick with Taom.
I have done many "chalk persistence on the tip" tests over the years, and the results aren't always consistent. It might depend on the chalk batch, age, and humidity level.
I think as long as you’re chalking every shot, the miscue limit is not going to change. The difference between premium chalk and master is the time it stays on your tip, and the cleanliness.
I find Taom rarely ever transfers to the cue ball, so you won’t get as many skids. And since it stays on the cue tip, if you’re not someone whom chalks each shot, you’ll get less miscues as well.
@@stephenmcneil4573 Agreed.
It was also very humid at the 8-ball championships
Taom v10 for sure. It’s nearly November and I’ve used less than 1/3 of it since April.
18 shots before a miscue with it, tested 6 times. No residue on ball or table, means no kicks later on and if you’re in a flow you don’t have to stop and chalk. £15 per chalk is well worth it
Edit: it also goes on easily on all tips. Soft on my playing cue and phenalic on my break cue
Good points.
I like the V10 and it's what I use. I tried my friends blue Taom Pyro and it stuck to my break cue tip better than the V10. I think I'll buy one of the Taom Pyro chalks just for my break shots.
I can't speak for the v10 yet but I know for sure the pyro does get on the table as I have seen what the table looks like when someone uses the pink version. Just doesn't stick to the cue ball nearly as much as others.
With Roku, average frequency of use give me half of year!!
@@Ryu1806 I should have pointed out the longevity and cleanliness of the premium chalks. They are important factors.
That SVB game is what lead me to clicking on this. I’m geeking out on all the testing. Designing the experiments looks more fun than it should look.
If you want to geek out some more on chalk testing videos, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/comparison/
After watching Dr Dave and Billiard Corner reviews I purchased a cube of Taom V10. After shooting with it on my home table for over a month its definitely the cleanest on the cloth and cue ball persistency. My favorite chalk for the last 6 years is the Predator 1080 which Billiard Corner gave a poor review and Dr Dave didn't review that I could find. Predator 1080 Does not leave a big mess in my opinion. 1080 Leaves very low persistency marks on the cue ball that erase with normal rotation of the cue ball during a rack same as Taom V10. Measured the size of the grit with a micrometer, Master .003 Magic .002 Predator 1080 .0017 Taom v10 .oo15. My experience the larger the granulas the more prescience on the cue ball. Worst case, brake with a phenolic tip using Master chalk
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Going through the comments, I'm convinced that a Taom seems to be worth it. If it goes on sparsely and doesn't leave much residue that itself is a huge benefit. I do clean my table regularly but I'll be quite willing to pay a premium on the chalk if it cuts down on having to wipe down the cue ball regularly and, more importantly, avoids chalk on the felt.
Even with careful chalking (doing it lightly with sensitive fingers and applying only as needed), a Master chalk can generate easily 1/4th the amount that actually goes onto the tip. In careless hands, I've seen more chalk dust generated than actually goes onto the tip!
So while avoiding miscues was the primary focus of your video, the question of not causing unnecessary harm is perhaps a more important one! :)
And given just how long a cube lasts anyway, the extra few bucks probably aren't too much to spend.
“Avoiding miscues” was not the “primary” focus. It was just the first of the four tests performed. I think “cling/skid/kick” was the primary focus.
When I used Master, I'd go through a cube about once a month. I have been using a "cube" of Taom Pyro for over a year, and I'm sure there's at least another 6-12 months left in it.
Taom lasts at least 5 times longer than Master. Absolutely no residue on balls or table. I had a black cloth on my table so chalk on table was very annoying. I chalk once per game unless extreme English is required. I bought 2 cubes ( if you call call round chalk a cube lol) 16 months ago and I am still on my first cube. I play 3-4 times a week. My first cube is down to about 1/4 inch which is ridiculous but at this point I am just being stubborn to see just how long I can get out of it. As far as performance… can’t tell much difference between master, blue diamond, or others but for lack of residue and longevity there is no comparison. TAOM all the way people!
I should have mentioned in the video that the premium chalks do last longer.
It would be really interesting to cross-test different chalks with different brands/types of pool balls. At the World 8 ball, there was some speculation that the Predator brand balls were harder to clean and/or more prone to picking up chalk marks than comparable modern ball sets. If I remember correctly, the Predator balls are manufactured by Aramith but I wonder if there's a noticeable difference between the Predator set and, say, the Aramith Black tournament set, or maybe a top-level Cyclop set when it comes to chalk adherence. It could even be fun to throw a super old set of clay/ceramic balls into the mix to see how they compare.
I wouldn't expect any difference among all the modern high-quality pool balls, but I agree that it would be interesting to test out. Humidity at the recent tournament could have also been an effect.
Thanks for the thorough breakdown. I use Magic chalk for all the "premium chalk" reasons you listed in this video. I don't look to chalk for getting more spin. My shafts, table, cue ball, and hands are cleaner than any other chalk I've tried. If I lose a cube it's only about $6 instead of $30. I've heard good things about the new Taom chalk but I still have a few years worth of Magic chalk to go through first.
Understood. It seems silly to buy new and expensive chalk when you already have a large supply of something else, especially when the choice of chalk is not so important per the info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/comparison/
Now I'm curious about Magic Chalk's persistence on the cueball...
I have info and tests at the link above.
Great tests and findings!!! Master has worked for years exceptionally well ... and there is reason for it. Think people should work on their tip and keeping the balls clean, huh!?! Be Safe
Thanks. I'm glad you liked it.
For me the most importent reason why i use taom v10 is its clean. I have a table at home and you dont have any chalk on the felt. Or shaft. So chalkoff is expensive as well. You should chalk befor any shot anyway.
Good point. The premium chalks are definitely cleaner.
Nice tests.
Thanks.
It took several minutes before I realized that it was your ceiling light making the reflective geometric pattern on the balls, and not some weird ball design! 🧐
I use Kamui Roku and Taom simply because they are cleaner. No mess on my hands, no glaring spots on the table and fewer marks on the balls. Never noticed these chalks allowing me to shoot better than cheaper chalks, however. Masters, Magic, etc. I even prefer Magic on my break cue. Slips less vs. Taom.
I’d love to buy a cheaper chalk, but none of the cheaper ones are as clean as Taom and Roku. At least none I have tried.
Good point. Cleanliness is definitely an important factor.
Hello Dr. Dave , I feel there is one other consideration regarding chalk performance. The added value is up to the individual . How long you play and your chalking habits and technique will vary this condition. Ir's called filthy blue hand ! Master chalk is messy no matter how careful you are and your dirty blue hands spread that blue to everything they touch. The expensive brands are much cleaner all around. Thanks for all your great videos. Ive learned a lot of trustworthy information and stay inspired. Dexter
Agreed. I added a statement to the video description and pinned comment summarizing other advantages that I should have mentioned in the video but didn’t.
I've always hated master chalk. I like Blue Diamond for my playing cue. I was a Silver Cup user for years but it takes too long to chalk a phenolic tip, so I started experimenting. I found I like Balabushka for phenolic tips but I think I was having a problem with cling for the playing cue. Great video as always!
Good Stuff. I compete at a high level and am always a threat to break and run out in 9 ball.
Master was just always around, but once I switched to Longoni Blue Diamond, wow. Draws were even more effortless, english better. Only downside To Blue is the cue ball residue, a minor inconvenience to me.
I love the game as much or more than anyone, but I'm not prepared to drop $30 for a cube.
If it is any consolation, the new premium chalks do last longer and are much cleaner.
I recently started using taom and i like it. Master is messy. My circle of taom seems to be wearing very slowly
Thanks good to know love your videos
Finally. I’m mad I haven’t seen this until 2 months later.
Make sure you are subscribed and have bell notifications turned on. Then you won't miss anything. And if you want to see my chalk testing videos and info, go here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/comparison/
Taom 100% worth the money. All the skids SVB was getting in World 8 ball is a testament to how dirty old chalks are.
Great video Dave! Thanks for the upload. And yeah, Shane had some absolutely horrible kicks in the 8 ball tournament. He might want to start reconsidering his preferred chalk...
Thanks. I'm glad you liked it. I wonder if SVB will consider using different chalk now.
Another criterion could be how long they last. I have been using Taom V10 for a year and a half now. My first piece lasted 11 months playing every day. If you see it as 1 piece of chalk per year, it no longer seems so expensive. The main advantage I note with this chalk is that it doesn't leave marks on either the cue ball or the table, unlike Triangle chalk, which is the standard in the area I play.
Did you factor in the likelihood of forgetting your chalk on the table, never to be seen again?
@@tableroll1 Costing so much, I protect it with my life.
I tend to leave chalks on the table, so I would definitely be at risk of losing expensive chalks.
I have noticed after cleaning or “reconditioning “ balls including the cue ball,the balls seem to be more susceptible to picking up a chalk mark. I have used Preditor and master. Both show chalk marks, some quite prominent. Am I doing something wrong,or is it to be expected? Thanks for the insight. I always come away from one of your videos with more knowledge than I came with. Thanks again.
Master and the old Predator chalks mark up all CBs (clean or dirty). I don't think you are doing anything wrong, assuming you are used pool ball cleaners. The premium chalks in this video don't leave marks like the older chalks.
Another important question when asking if the price is worth it, would be how long the piece of chalk tends to last. I wonder if players who have tried different chalks have noticed a difference. Some players can grind through a piece of Master chalk in a single session. I can chalk up after every shot--brushing it lightly, as you recommend-- and make a cube last for months of daily practice.
Also, I find it interesting that the premium chalks may not leave a very visible mark but will still cause a skid. At least with the Master chalk, you can usually see when there might be trouble. Thanks for the great research!
Good points. When I did the cling/skid/kick test with the fresh stop-shot chalk marks, the chalk marks were visible. They just wear off quickly during most shots.
Respect! Keep up the great work 🙂
Thanks!
We used to joke after miscues that, "Chalk is cheap!" Not necessarily true anymore...
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P. T. Barnum.
So a few years ago somebody left a price of kamui chalk in my pool halls chalk bucket. I used it until it was a little nub lol. The main difference I noticed wasn't really shot performance but how long it stayed on my tip. I was able to make quite a few shots before reapplying without miscuing.
The old Kamui chalks stick to the CB way too much and should not be used.
@@DrDaveBilliards yeah I don't use it anymore for multiple reasons, price just being the start. I've been using a chalk called Russian magic chalk, it's very affordable and I think it performs much better than master chalk.
@@everettgreenwood4338 Agreed. Magic Chalk is better than Master in some regards, per the info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/comparison/
It is a good idea for new players to use the clean chalks as well. Hitting the ball in the same place and getting different results is not good feedback to the brain. I like the round shape for even wear, with square I end with 4 radial lines.
If you'd have told me that later on in life people would argue about pool cue chalk, I would've told you that you were crazy. Now here I am.
So am I crazy or you? :)
This review seems about right, though some will say that TAOM is better by a wider margin. That said, I personally stopped using premium chalk. Masters is a good chalk and is usually free.
*Contents:*
0:00 - Intro
0:49 - Miscue Limit
3:22 - # of Shots Before Miscue
5:17 - Chalk Mark Persistence
---- 5:38 - cling definition and demonstrations
---- 6:19 - FSR and SVB cling examples
---- 7:07 - chalk tests
8:42 - Cling/Skid/Kick
10:56 - Wrap Up
*NOTE*
- The main advantages of the newer premium chalks is that they last longer and are cleaner, leaving less debris, residue, and stains on your hands, the cue, and the table.
- Taom should be pronounced “towm,” not “tah om.”
*Supporting Resources:*
- chalk testing resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/comparison/
- how to chalk properly: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/how-to/
- throw tutorial: billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/throw/
- cling resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/throw/cling/
- recent FSR-SVB pro 8-ball match with cling happening in two consecutive games: ua-cam.com/users/liveoySFm6vKrko
*Subscribe to Dr. Dave's UA-cam Channel:*
ua-cam.com/users/DrDaveBilliards
I use V10 mainly because of cling and it doesn't make as much of a mess.
Good reasons.
The doctor prescribes SVB daily use of Taom chalk, and sponsorship.
It does seem silly to keep using Master chalk (at his level) when I could be paid to use any chalk he wants.
I play competitive snooker and switched from triangle blue chalk to TAOM and have never looked back. Only con is price but benefits far outweight. They last much longer - I switched several years ago and am still on my first one! The chalk doesn't come off all over the table - you get tiny little flakes on the table every now and then but far less than the scattering of green chalk you get with the cheaper Triangle chalk. This means less chance of kicks of the balls. I have to chalk far less with the TAOM as it stays on the tip longer. Control with the TAOM is much better and I can get excellent side spin and backscrew. Definately won't go back to cheap chalk
Good points. These chalks definitely last longer and are much cleaner.
Taom for the win 🙌
All the new premium chalks seem similar to me. All good. Although, the choice of chalk really isn't that important per the info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/comparison/
@@DrDaveBilliards I was referring to the price. Taom in the uk is £15, half the price of others. Love your channel, I've watched every video you've done 👌👍
Good point. If there is no important differences among the premium chalks, go with the cheapest. Makes sense to me.
I use the Taom on my home table and it definitely keeps my table cleaner than masters.
I’ve had the same experience. I should have mentioned this in the video.
Great video Dave. I am wondering something though. The miscue point was the same with each chalk, understood. But if you hit the cueball at the exact same point with different chalks, can a "grippier" chalk apply more RPM to the cueball. So what Im asking is, would it make sense to do a test where you put the center of the chalk mark on the miscue ring and then measure where on the side rail the cueball makes contact.
For the same tip contact point, the amount of spin is the same. The chalk, tip hardness, and amount of shaft CB deflection do not change the amount of spin that can be applied. For more info and demonstrations, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/comparison/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/#spin
Great video, thanks. One question about chalk though - is there any benefit to removing chalk after play (other than keeping the case clean)?
I don't bother doing this, but some people (especially "clean freaks") do.
*I steal Masters a little at a time. I keep it in a portable welding rod oven… drys it out perfectly*
Taom is definitely worth it, it lasts really long and don’t leave any marks
Hey Dave! I believe you can hit beyond the miscue limit if you hit real soft.
Love your videos.
I have never seen any evidence (nor have I had personal experience) for this.
Thanks!
Thank you! I appreciate your support.
It would be very interesting to perform a test of different balls and their tendency to retain chalk marks. Case in point, this past week SVB playing on Predator cloth with Arcos II balls had SEVERAL bad skids. His Master's chalk was defintiely marking up the cue ball much worse than it normally does on Aramith balls and Simonis cloth. I have a set of the Arcos II balls also, and notice that even though I am obsessive about cleaning the cloth and polishing the balls, the Predator 1080 chalk marks up the Arcos balls a LOT.
Do you think the ball had anything in particular to do with it, or was possibly the very humid conditions and a "damp" cube of chalk he was using? Either way, he really needs to experiment with that combination before he plays in that venue again. Thankfully, he won the tourney and is yet again, a World Champion!
humidity for sure -- it's been wicked humid here this summer and even Taom V10 is sticking.
Agreed. It would be interesting to see how ball type and humidity affect chalk mark creation and persistence.
Hi @DrDaveBilliards - thanks for the good video - but I have a question - if all the chalks cause skids and to the same extent - wouldn't it make more sense for me to see the chalk mark on the white ball....? If the premium chalks don't leave any marks on the white ball, then I wouldn't see it and wouldn't clean the ball or have it cleaned in the game. I would find it almost advantageous if I could see the markings as with the Master chalk, wouldn't I ? Because only then I know that there is also the danger of a skid....
Only a fresh chalk mark (that hasn't worn off very much yet) causes significant cling/skid/kick. As I showed in the video, the premium chalk marks do not persist on the CB after typical shots.
Great video, Dr Dave.
I wanted to ask you a question, did you do video about a misscue test with maximum english (side) with magic chalk and you were able to get 27 hits without chalking before getting a miscue?
Thanks.
All my results can be found here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/comparison/
Magic Chalk does persist on the tip a long time, and I often recorded more than 20 hits before a miscue for a shot like the one in this video (not maximum spin, but a lot). Although, this really isn't important for good players who chalk before every shot.
@@DrDaveBilliards Thank you, Dr Dave.
I still found it interesting you were able to hit the cueball 27 times with alot of english no less without a miscue with magic chalk. I tried doing that with the same chalk and got nowhere near close. As far as I’m aware of, no one has been able to replicate what you did with magic chalk.
The billiard corner (which you also showed on your website), was only able to hit the cueball eight times with magic chalk before miscuing in both videos he showcase the chalk in. (Although he was drawing the cueball back every time, so it could be considered an unfair test.)
It makes me wonder if the recipe got worse for magic chalk when it dropped the Russian name or even before then.
I only say this, because there is an infamous snooker cue maker who has been around for years on Facebook that has been harassing and just been flat out nasty (he is the literal definition of an Internet troll and keyboard warrior) to other users who dare to say that Toam V10 is a better chalk. He often uses your test with magic chalk as an example to try and prove his critics are wrong as he sells magic chalk himself.
Once again, thank you.
@@stressball1324 I can't explain the mixed results. Maybe the batch that my cubes came from had a lot of extra abrasive particles in it. Regardless, as I said, it is unimportant anyway.
Great video! I had no idea chalk could cause such a level of errors in your shots.
… only if you get skid, which doesn’t occur often (unless you don’t keep the CB clean or use “cosmetic” type chalks that stick to the CB too much).
As often as I miss, I certainly couldn’t blame the chalk. And I refuse to pay $20-30 for one cube. I choose the Longoni NIR at less than $4 a cube. I chalk up every 5th or 6th shot, usually only when my opponents shooting, the ball stays clean and I never miscue.
Fewer kicks are of course a nice thing BUT for me the cleanliness factor is huge and the Taom V10 lasts an extremely long time so well worth it. Not only the cueball and table stay much cleaner but as others noted my shaft and bridge hand remain cleaner which is very significant for me. And the "high cost" when spread out over hundreds of hours of playing with a single chalk is just not significant. Considering all the costs of playing snooker - paying $20 a year for a better chalk is still only a tiny fraction of one's snooker budget :-)
Agreed. I should have mentioned the cleanliness and longevity factors in the video.
@@DrDaveBilliards and the crazy obsession some have with cost seems completely irrational. These TAOM chalks last so long that I spend less than 4 cents an hour for this chalk - how does that compare to the cost of gas to get to where I play, a cup of coffee once a week, and MY TIME spent with extra cleaning of the table if I were to use the old master chalk. Life is too short :-)
For snooker the blue pyro is the best to me, so much byte on the cue ball
Awesome content, Doc. I’m curious if the new chalks would leave less mess on the cloth as well, resulting in less stain on the bridge hand after a night of shooting?
The premium chalk are most definitely cleaner, leaving less debris and marks on the cloth.
@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks for the reply. Golden info
@@thetowndrunk988 You’re welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
I use the V10 just because it is so clean
I should have mentioned this in the video. The premium chalks are much cleaner, in general.
Nice video! I’m currently using the V10 just for the cleanliness of my cues/hands. Btw, what are those white circles at your table? Can you also provide a link on where I can buy them
You want to buy what you don't know???? But Dr. Dave calls them "doughnuts" they help in training you can mark where you want the ball for consistency
The white donuts are Reinforcement sticker's for paper which can be purchased anywhere office supplies are sold.
See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/training/teaching/
I feel that in addition to these scenereos, chalk deposits on the cloth (previous draw shots breaks and miscues) can cause issues. Thoughts?
Definitely. Any debris on the table can cause a ball (especially one moving slowly) to roll off from straight.
Although it would rarely apply, it could be more of a concern for anyone playing in tournaments with a shot clock (mostly professional but I've played in amateur tournaments with it also) Of course it depends on what your opponent is using but its hard to get the ball cleaned while you are on the clock, so less residue is better.
Good point.
most pros and coach say, get the cue tip to behind cueball. the way i play is i think shaun murphy does that, eg: as i get down my cue tip is above the cueball and i have to pull the cue back to bring the cue tip back behind the white, then start my featuring. does that cause problem ? and make the cue offline?
Many pros also start with the tip down. Either approach is fine as long as you end up in the right place.
See the "Why do some players address the CB much lower than they intend to hit?" section at the bottom of the page here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/height/
I use TAOM, I chalk up after every shot. I use it because I hate getting my hands blue.
Which is the best chalk for phenolic tips? I use Taom Pyro on my playing cue but I find it doesn’t stick very well on my break & jump cues so I use Master chalk instead.
I use Great White chalk only for my break cue's phenolic tip
V10 sticks to phenolic tips better than Pyro. I often use Master on my jump and break cues.
have you ever done a test like this with cue tips, types of cue shafts, and tip sizes. I think these would be just as interesting chalks, there is a lot of talk about which type of shaft is better and or gives you an advantage. I don't believe there is as much of a difference as many think there is. Just a thought.
I've done lots of tests with cue tips, and I have lots of info dealing with tip size, shape, and hardness here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
Check out the videos and info on these pages.
Another concern for the cheaper chalks is it get’s your shaft very dirty. The white ferrule is hard to clean
Agreed. The premium chalks are cleaner.
I went from magic chalk to taom for a day. I miscued more in one session with that than I had miscued in a month with magic chalk.
You do need to chalk more carefully with Taom, especially the earlier versions.
The early versions of Taom do take more care with chalking. They don’t stick to the tip as well.
I have been a Predator chalk user for the last 2-3 years and I've always thought it was good. Last month I went to a state tourney and bought Taom chalk.... haven't and wont use anything else for the foreseeable future because it applies to the tip nicely and sticks well. Also doesnt stick on cue as much like Dave says
Using chalks that stick less to the CB are better for everybody.
@@DrDaveBilliards I agree! In league play where the tables change from week to week, it's something you have to deal with due to the variety of chalks used between 10 players and sometimes run-down equipment overall.
Nice vid. If you use the prem chalk and your opponent uses master chalk you still have to deal with excessive chalk left on the cue ball or table.
Agreed. That's why I think chalks that leave very persistent marks on the CB, like the original Kamui chalks, should not be allowed. They can hurt you AND your opponent.
Have you ever looked at cueballs as far as holding chalk longer and chalk marks persisting longer? I know they are all made by aramith but it seems the old pro cup (measle), older red circles, and the predator cue ball tend to hold chalk longer. Whereas the new diamond cue balls (TV and regular) which are also made by aramith seem to do much better. Dunno if it's different formulas between balls. I would imagine the diamond balls use a newer formula.
I have not tested this, but it would be interesting to look at. I wouldn’t expect any real difference, but it is possible.
I'll never use master chalk again. My taom pyro I bought over a year ago has barely changed. It should last a good while. Another thing, when I go play league my palm turns blue from the master chalk on the table. I hardly ever clean my table at home, my hand stays clean. I use a lot of English , and had a lot of miscues when I used master, that doesn't happen now.
So yes, its worth it.
A friend of mine swore by russian magic chalk because of one of your old videos, he said it was the best, he's a master player also. I let him use mine, now he has taom lol.
The new premium chalks are definitely cleaner, and they last longer.
Hi Dr Dave, was there a "best chalk" result after these tests??
All three of these premium chalks seemed equally good to me.
I've noticed that Magic Chalk is rarely mentioned anymore. Is that because it's become harder to get or another reason?
… probably since many new chalks have come out since it was released.
Hello Dr. Dave. I have a question that I've often wondered about. Is it possible to chalk up your tip TOO MUCH?????? Meaning that you've put too much chalk on the tip that it could potentially cause a bad shot/hit????
I might be possible but it is no easy to do, especially with these chalks.
Thank you @@DrDaveBilliards
Is there a video for proper chalking of the cue stick.
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/how-to/
I've used Master chalk for decades and performance wise, it works fine assuming one properly chalks before each shot. However, it is 'messier' than the so called premium chalks. I switched to Taom pyro then Taom V10. The V10 coats the tip nicely and stays on the tip for the most part. My balls stay cleaner longer as does my table. One variable not mentioned in your video that may alter the results slightly is the tip type. Manufacturer, hardness, size, etc. If someone asked me what my chalk recommendation is, Taom V10 would be my answer. It's not that expensive and lasts a looooong time.
On a different subject, I recently did a video about whether you will break better with a break cue over a house cue. My answer is nope. That generated some debate. Have you ever done a video on the virtues of a break cue?
Good points.
The main virtue of a good break cue is the hit efficiency and a natural pivot-length well matched to your preferred bridge length. See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/efficiency/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/natural-pivot-length/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/cue/
Enjoy!
Hi Dr. Dave, do you know the Sniper Chalk ? Very popular in Germany.
I am aware of it, but I have not tried it.
Two things not really reviewed, longevity and residue. I've been using a single block of v10 for going on 10 months, shooting at least an hour pretty much every day, and frequently a lot more, and it's got plenty of life left. I'm also not a fan of shooting gloves. When I was using Master or Predator chalk, the heel of my bridge hand would be nearly blue with chalk residue after shooting for an hour. Since switching to v10 I can shoot for a couple of hours and it looks like I haven't touched a cue :) Just the lack of mess is worth the price for me, given how long it last.
FYI, here's a pertinent "NOTE" in the video description and pinned comment:
"The main advantages of the newer premium chalks is that they last longer and are cleaner, leaving less debris, residue, and stains on your hands, the cue, and the table."
You did, my apologies for the oversite :) @@DrDaveBilliards
@@TheSwingmonkey I honestly don’t expect people to read the video descriptions or pinned comments, but I usually include additional useful info in those places (especially when my videos are missing something important).
I use Great White.... Love it too be honest. Stays on the tip for upwards of 15 shots before miscues
I care more about the chalk not sticking to the CB than I care about the chalk staying on the tip longer to allow not chalking between shots (because I chalk before every shot with an off-center hit).
@@DrDaveBilliards fair enough! I usually chalk after about 5-6 hits but I'm just a recreational player, I don't even play in tourneys. I just like to have a little higher quality chalk and gear than what Dick's Sporting Goods offers 😂. I do love my J Flowers carbon fiber cue though 👌
@@DrDaveBilliards oh and Great White doesn't stick to the cue ball either. It's pretty good stuff.
New video!
Yep. It has been a while. I have been busy with lessons, courses, and personal travel.
Can not chalking cause problems for a strain in center ball shot? Can you talk a bit about the types of shots where it can't cause a problem?
... only if you apply sidespin (intentionally or not), and the chalk mark ends up at the contact point with the OB.
so which one is the best? you did not pick your fave. your thumbnail said which one is the best but you did mention which?
I like all three of these compared to other chalks. They are much more expensive, but they play very clean and last a long time. However, performance wise, chalk selection is mostly unimportant per the videos and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/comparison/
SVB uses Masters chalk, if it's good enough for him it is good enough for me. Skill is way more important than equipment.
I've used Master for 20-30 years also, but I don't like how much it sticks to the CB compared to the newer premium chalks. BTW, did you see the skid shots in the video during SVB's match, where he was using Master chalk. SVB's miss (due to the skid) cost him the game, and it could have cost him the match and the tournament.
@@DrDaveBilliards it's a scary thought the SVB might have won more if he used a better chalk. 😳😳
What about the condition of the table? How about high speed video of impact with chalk dust flying ? Cheap vs Expensive
Good point. The newer chalks do seem "cleaner," leaving less residue on the cloth.
Never thought that people would be using eye shadow for their tips. I don’t know if Dr. Dave has the stroke to test the extremes, but in my experience, these new chalks seem to limit the work the cue ball does in extreme draw and follow situations. Don’t know if that has something to do with their grip ability vs older chalks or not, but it seems that the stroke isn’t transferred as much with the new chalks on power shots. Not that that matters though as it seems that given today’s equipment, no one is power stroking the ball anymore like on equipment from 35 years ago with normal rails and slow nappy cloth. Today, you have bouncy rails, faster cloth, and poke strokes where you are being bounced into position and it has become an entirely different game vs that of old. I wonder if there is any merit to this observation that myself and many players of old, have noticed, or a way to actually test it.
I have not noticed any difference in power shot performance in any of the chalks I have tested; although, you need to chalk more carefully with some, and others stick to the CB too much. See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/comparison/
For me, it's the placebo effect. I KNOW my Taom Chalk is not significantly better than Master's but I feel that I like the hit of the Taom even though I know there is no difference in the hit. Also, my hands are cleaner too.
The mind is a powerful thing. Although, cleaner is definitely better.
One more disadvantage for master chalk is that it makes the table much more dirtyer
It sure does and also makes all the other ball's dirty as well.
Good point. I should have mentioned the cleanliness factor in the video.