Part 1: Installing a Victron MultiPlus : Plans and prep | EP48 | Ford Transit Campervan Build
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- NOTE* This Episode is only talking about and planning the set up for the unit no actual install. please wait/find for part 2 for install. parts of this video Involve AC electricity I recommend you check your local regulations before considering doing any of it yourself.
A friend offered to buy my current Victron Pheonix Inverter and Victron Battery Charger ( Both are fantastic units ). This gave me an opportunity to get a Multiplus 12 / 1600 | 70 which is a combination of an inverter and charger and saves space in my cupboard.
As the Multiplus is an Inverter, Charger and Hook up AC pass through. Looking at the Victron Schematics this unit should be installed with Protection both on the AC In ( upstream of Inverter ) and AC Out ( Downstream of the Inverter )
Protection wise I will be using two "Consumer units", An Enclosure containing a MCB ( Miniature circuit breaker ) and RCD ( Residual current device, Other names included RCCB, GFCI, GFI, ALCI in Different areas ). Note whilst the AC in / Hook Up / Shore power "should" already have such protection at the source, There is always the Potential for a fault, Incorrect installation or so.
I will also touch upon the principle of Earth “Bonding” of the AC Earth to the vehicle chassis and why.
-----------
Gear up for adventure with these exclusive deals:
🔋 ROAMER BATTERIES! Elevate your journey - [Affiliate Link] roamer.com/?af...
🔥 AUTOTERM Discount Code: mispronounced5% - [Exclusive 5% off] planarheaters....
🚿 BOBILVANS Hot water ! - [Affiliate Link] www.bobilvans....
☕️ Support the channel! Grab a coffee, beer, or diesel at: www.buymeacoff...
🛒 Check out my curated Amazon Store for van build essentials: www.amazon.co....
Your purchases fuel the adventure. Thanks for being part of the journey! 🌟
Connect with the adventure on social media:
📧 Email: Alex@alexfrood.com
🌐 Expedition Photography Website: www.AlexFrood.com
📸 Instagram: / alexfrood
📘 Facebook: / alexfroodoutdoorinstru...
Stay in the loop and join the exploration! 🌍✨
Disclaimer: Some of these links are affiliate links where I'll earn a small commission if you make a purchase at no additional cost to you. Also as an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases at no extra cost to you.⚠️
Welcome to my Ford Transit Mk8 Van build series.
My name is Alex Frood, I’m a UK based Freelance Expedition Leader and Outdoor instructor. During a Uk Covid-19 Lockdown I am converting my 2018 Ford Transit Mk8 L3H3 into a full-time Camper.
These videos are not How-to videos but showing my process for my conversion. feel free to copy me but id always recommend doing your own research as well.
--------------------
Excellent explanation of the electrical system, especially the earthing. You have obviously been real thouroug in your research. I can say this with some authority having been in the industry for 34 years now. Bonding is so important, any key board worriers just point them in the direction of 'equipotential bonding zones' and let them figure it out lol .
Keep up the great work and content Alex.
Thank you very much. They I say in videos I do my best to research first and to have an understanding of the why and how something works. Not just doing it because everyone says too,
Just showed my dad this video and he said to say thanks - really well explained and helped him understand it all! Looking forward to part 2!
Glad it was helpful Joel. All being well I’ll have part 2 coming next week
Finally, someone who knows what they're talking about...
Hope it was helpful. I try and talk about the reason why you do something, and not just do it
Absolute legend ! Just got all my victron set up and it blew my head off not knowing a tap . Thanks mate massive help
Glad it’s been a massive help. part 3 involving the software and setting set up process is coming soon
"... trip out your heart" - lovely new bit of medical terminology!
I think it’s a pretty reasonable and simplified way to refer to a arrhythmia
@@MispronouncedAdventures Absolutely. A beautiful melding of the electrical and medical worlds.
Revisited. How can someone as clever as you not do the gas? I had to watch your vid like 5 times just to grasp the basics of what you were saying about the earthing. I found the gas one of the easiest parts of my built, Id love for you to check my victron set up out as I’m pretty sure it’s not earthed like you said? Once again thanks for taking the time to go into such great detail with the electrics
As far as gas I guess it comes down to excepting & understanding my skill set and Preferences, I did at one point install it on the strong LPG tank on the van and ran a majority of the piping. I did change and go full electric in my van in the end. You’re free to message me on a different media platform with a Messenger and photos of your system
Big fan of the dramatic reconstruction 😆. Great video as always mate. Looking forward to the next 🤙🏼
Glad to hear! Considering the amount of arguments I see online about it I thought I had to get a reference in there somewhere
Excellent and informative vid on Multiplus configuation! Thanks for sharing the knowedge.
No problem at all. I couldn’t find many other videos in detail of them being installed. Which resulted in a lot of research so I thought it was best to make a detailed overview of my install to help others over a few videos
Just found your channel. Great content. Very similar to Greg Virgo in terms of tips and helpful advice with step by step instructions. Now going the binge watch remaining videos. Love the Shower, NFC tags, Raspberry Pi and other techie stuff.
Thank you very much. Lovely compliment to be compared to Greg! I do love my tech just as much as I love the Outdoors. Whilst others might think it’s overly complicated looking at it in a whole. Having built it from the ground up it all makes sense is relatively simple to me
Awesome set up, thanks for the vlog 👍
No problem! :)
For the keyboard warriors, rather than calling it “Earth” inside the van I call it a “chassis ground”. I fully agree with having your own incoming RCD, why would you trust your life on someone else’s kit and installation on the mains feed?
I’ve got the 12/2000-80 MultiPlus (metal case) and absolutely love it. Bit of a pain setting up the bulk/absorb/float voltages as like you I’m not using Victron Lithium batteries (mine are 260Ah Winston LiFePo4). The only slight disappointment I’ve noted is the power assist function, where if the incoming power level is limited (and you set it on the remote the panel) the MultiPlus can boost this from the batteries, but the minimum is 4.5 Amps for the mains input and I occasionally use it with a 1200w petrol generator (Lidl inverter type) and would prefer to put a little less load on this.
Great content as always, looking forward to the next part.
Yeah I would a agree. I think The main argument comes from the misunderstanding and loose term of “Earth” being use. When using “chassis ground” or “Earth bonding” is more descriptive on what is actually been done. just “earthing it to the chassis” leads to confusion on traditional earth as in connected to earth.
The setting up was a bit more of a faff than other bits of victron kit with my charge voltages. Planning to go over the different ways of doing it in part 3
Ah I see. I’m yet to play around with some of the more advanced features just. Maybe at some point in the future where I am competent and have a better understanding of some of them in use I might make a video on them to help others
I think with protecting the incoming as well with your own RCD for many it might be the risk is unknown to them . When you lay it out in simple terms to someone about risking there own safety on someone’s unknown equipment / hook up it then makes perfect sense to them
Nice setup. I think I'm gonna go with the MultiPlus 24/3000 but everything else is pretty much the same :)
Very nice choice! The 3000w model!
Im so happy you switched to this route in the end :) I feel like the Multiplus suits your setup perfectly especially with the starter battery charging option :) Keep up the awesome videos! :)
I think with the changing my original battery bank from a small lead acid to a reasonably large lithium. And well discovering that the multiplus unit is a thing haha. Find that with the opportunity of a friend buying my current system for a good price. It was well worth the effort.
The trickle charge system via the trickle port I have been playing around with. I now have a working solution as there is a number of reasons in my case why the multiplus trickle charge option won’t work for me . Whilst for other systems it will
@@MispronouncedAdventures Im curious what voltage the trickle charge system charges the starter at? I cant seem to find the number anywhere in Victrons manuals
Victron loosely States its it’s a bit underneath the leisure system voltage. I think when I measured it maybe 0.2 or 0.4v. It’s also not controllable, I suspect it’s a simple diode. It’s still functions when the inverter is in the off position as well
That makes it generally not unusable for a system which has a lithium leisure battery and a lead acid starter. As that would be continually trickle charging your starter battery in the 13v and over area.
In the end I opted to use a isolated DC to DC converter powered directly off the leisure system ( as my vans electrics and leisure electrics isolated from each, almost every trickle charger I found needed a common negative between the starter and leisure ) and I can control the output voltage And then purchased a 1amp trickle charger and powered it off the converter. I’ll show my working through of the process and ultimately failure to use the trickle charge port on the multiplus in my System set up in one of the videos I’m sure I’ll get stick for in the comments haha
@@MispronouncedAdventures looking forward to seeing it! Even if the trickle charger part was a failure, it'll be great to see how you went through the process still! Definitely appreciated!
Very good Alex, we expect to go all Victron in the end, but wanted 100amps of alternator charging for winter trips. I may do a walk around video of the 460 minibus! No one will watch that I guarantee 😂😂
I’d definitely love more amps! Definitely come going unused! Depending on the set up, low or high spec Alternators generally still only kick out 60-70amp at idle Revolutions / RPM 1000-1500. The 200+ amps are only his your hitting those high revs.
You could probably do 2 x 12v B2B 30amp chargers normally. More than that you might want to consider a Second alternator. Drawing too much is going to really heat up the alternator and decrease its lifespan.
I’ll watch your walk around!
There is a solution that grabs up to 250A from an OEM alternator. In case of ford transit it could be either 160A or 200A, depends on which alternator is installed. Safiery.com and their SCOTTY DC-to-DC. However, it’s purely for a 48V system .
Great video, can’t wait for the next part 😁
It’s mostly filmed and edited so should be end of next week
very informative - thank you!
Thank you for watching
Great video thanks for posting! That Victron is a LF inverter with the big toroidal transformer, correct?
Indeed Victron inverter use a torroid type transformer
That orange is nice
Thank you! It was a bold colour choice but I think combined of the blue it works quite well
Good video, I got 'Energy Solutions' to sec my electrics using almost identical Victron products with no mention of a consumer unit before the inverter in their schematic diagram.....very good idea...I'll quiz them on this...cheers
The multiplus being a combo unit makes it a confusing one. As I had seen a number of other multiplus set ups not using a consumer unit before the inverter. Yet speaking to a Victron dealer and looking on the Victron schematics they offer showing the use of a protection beforehand. Additionally looking at the Victron easysolar units ( a combo unit with multiplus, mppt and other bits ) they also include protection built-in for the AC in and AC OUT.
I guess as the AC in should already be protected at its source some people don’t bother protecting AC in. That doesn’t take into account that protection at source has been done correctly or is functioning
There seems to be two 1600w inverters, your style and the one I have that seems slightly bigger with a metal case and square !!! the only difference in the part number is '230VP' and '230V' do you know what the difference is....
I think you have a new version !!!!
My from researching of it. The “Multiplus compact” got a case redesign at some point in the last few years. The 1600VA models and below got the plastic body similar to the Victron Phoenix inverters, most features remained the same apart from smaller physical dimensions and a cheaper price. And a number of models especially the higher output models went from “Multiplus compact” to just “Multiplus” and retained the slightly larger metal case. Then you have the Multiplus 2 comes out with new features
:D It can be one consumer unit...the receptacle doesn't matter it doesn't affect the function. Good practice is to not mix voltages in enclosures (unless your 12v is 230V insulated)
Temperature sensing is very necesary for Li-Ion. You have to derate your charger according to temperatures.
Earth the consumers you need a bus to connect things later.
Rubber tyres me hole...they conduct, carbon and steel composite.
Campers mains is covered under building regs by the way and restricted works...I wouldn't let a sparks near one..they're shyte at batteries. I'm a cowboy by the way.
You're correct about the RCD on the incomer although you could arguably not bother seeing as the passthru RCD is 6" away from it.
Enable PE-N link on the Multi.
Yes. The consumer unit ( enclosurer) could’ve quite easily both been the same physical enclosurer, which would’ve been easier space wise just ordering two separate consumer unit small units ( 2 different enclosures ) was just generally easier to find and Order for me.
Temperature sensing wise in regards to the multiplus Is only for “temperature compensation” which is disengaged by the Multiplus or any of the Victron charges if you engage there Lithium settings. Unfortunately for the Multiplus this doesn’t prevent low temperature charging which needs to be sorted elsewhere.
“Earth the consumer you need a bus to connect things later” not 100% sure what you mean here. but Each consumer unit here has a Earth bus which I use, that is linked back to Multiplus and it’s Earth point is used a main/single Earth point to bond the Earth to vehicle chassis.
The RCD on both input and output is recommended by Victron.
PE-N link is on by default on the Multiplus. Which can be changed in setting
Most Li-Ion protagonists are putting their heads in the sand about the correct thermal management procedure with li-ion. High C-rate chargers need low and high temperature proportional charger foldback to mitigate fatal lithium plating at low temperature and premature aging & thermal runaway at high temperature.
So while they require temperature compensated charging it is not the same as the legacy Lead kind and it's easier for them to promote hardware if they say "you don't need it"
Sadly most manufacturers are claiming 3k or higher cycles (in a climate-controlled lab)* on LFP but BMS and charge profiling them to 600cycles because anything else is prohibitively difficult, complex and expensive.
It's extremely difficult to remain in the 20% to 80% SOC envelope for example. Chargers are being told to go to 100% and float charging is a big problem too. You're supposed to charge LFP to 80% or less which is difficult because of the memory effect and a flatline holding voltage or go to 95% and immediately turn off the charger inputs.
Now all this turning off chargers means my system efficiencies were much higher with lead.
MorningStar's ProStar is the only charger I know of with low-temperature charger foldback...I've been petitioning them to add high temperature. It's a big problem for me I have setups that the batteries are A: always too cold to begin with and B: when they get up to temperature require 5 hours cooldown for every 1 at 100% duty.
I meant connect a PE conductor to the earth buses inside the consumer units it's good practice to have a bus instead of daisy-chaining. It means you have somewhere to connect new hardware in the future.
Nothing wrong with an RCD on the input and output, it is correct in fact. Specifically, an RCD immediately after shore power enters the vessel and then another downstream of the inverter. In your case they're are so close you could get away with using the one downstream of the inverter as your shore power incomer too. The advantage of your setup is the inverter transfer switch and inverter chassis are protected too.
The PE-N link enables RCD function.
The reason it's switched is for boats running isolation transformers and other applications that are not ill-advised.
Knocking it out of the park with this tech van build dude! Would be very interested in a full van build cost video if possible in the future? Keep up the sterling work or is that Victron? ;)
Hey Alex, with the Multiplus are you able to disable the charging part via the app or remotely and just use as an inverter?
I’ve an idea to charge an Ecoflow quickly via mains from the inverter whilst driving.. 2x 30A Orion’s topping up the main battery as I go.
if the charger side can’t be disabled I’d be best with just a phoenix 1200 I rekon ..what’s your thoughts mate? 👍🏼 Ant
What would be your reason to disable the charging part of the multiplus? If you are driving then you won’t be on hook up.
@@MispronouncedAdventures I think I might have had a brain fart whilst writing that!haha! The charger side wouldn’t work as it has no mains to enable it 🙈 sorry what a muppet!
Brilliant thanks just subbed. One thing I’m stuck with if you have the time to comment it would really help
I have the ip22 at the moment.. could I take the wires from the Victron ip22 to the multiplus ac in ? Then just need the shore power to then go to ac out would this work
Thanks again great content 🎉
Do you mean could use the same AC which is going to the IP22 to go to the “AC in” the multiplus? Yes you can
@@MispronouncedAdventures yes I did buddy 👍 brilliant so that’s basically a straight swap out because the breakers are already in place too in the motorhome I bought
Shore power runs to this mcu breaker then out cables go to the space heater, water heater & charger all have each a breaker on the mcu box 😊 that’s where I seen the ip22 on that cable
So I can take out the wires to the ip22 wire them to the multiplus
Then the shore cable that goes to the mcu I can place a wago clamp on that wire to run off to the multi that should be good to go I’m hoping
Saves time fitting more rcds when the motorhome has them already 👍 thanks for the fast reply too buddy
Normally you have a consumer unit which as both power which contains a RCD and a MCB ( or multiple MCB’s ). If you’re going to directly swap the ip22 wires are the MCB for the multiplus AC in just Chuck the amp rating on the MCB. As the multiplus ( depending on which model ) will pull a lot more than the ip22.
When is the AC out of the multiplus going to get. To power all of the normal wall sockets in your motorhome
@@MispronouncedAdventures yea buddy my unit is called a elcB mcb I’m honestly new to all this so trying to get my head around the ac side
Like you have done all the work myself fitting all Victron mppt and b2b the lithium and hybrid battery bank fitted to a vsdr controller 300ah lithium and 230ah acid works brilliantly
Now I’m trying to fit the 12/1600/70
the mcb as a RCCB
40A and x3 c10 which just says below 63amp
And yes the multiplus is for the 230v wall sockets when off grid like a kettle or toaster
all other appliances run on 12v unless you actually plug into the sockets
I think the microwave is plugged in too but won’t be used
It’s just for emergency really just incase we do need it but the charger side be used more buddy
I have just checked the rcd is rated 45amp to 63 amp then I have x3 mcb rated 10 amp each each mcb is for the charger then 1 for space heater then the last water heater
the space heater is the one that goes into the mcb then wired to the 230v load (van sockets )
My plan would be to run a cable from the multiplus to the rcd for shore power ac in then from ac out on the multiplus to both mcb that was for the charger and space heater
Then the inverter when used isn’t powering everything just what ever I plug in the van sockets that’s what I’m wanting to do
I will get a sparky lol to be safe
LOL so is this the final setup Alex? Trolls vs Trolls... let the keyboard warriors fight it out amongst themselves HE HE... anyway I'm glad I have not invested in my Victron set up yet thank you for making all the mistakes for us Alex... this does look like a comprehensive way to go... keep up the good work can't wait for part deux... cheers man
Yes! However definitely nothing wrong at all with the Victron Phoenix inverter and Victron battery charger. Both brilliant units but the opportunity came up. Wouldn’t say it was so much is a mistake but this is my first built and electrical system of the scale and you learn along the way. Whilst my solar keeps up with my electrical needs without much issue at all for a battery bank of my size 390ah having the 70 amp charging option over just 30 is a nice.
As for the trolls, I think a lot of it comes down to confusion or lack of understanding of the actual intended purpose. As it’s often referred to earthing to the van, whilst actually it’s earth bonding for the point mitigating the risk of bodywork live fault when using a RCD over a traditional earth
@@MispronouncedAdventures Hi Alex yeah will be using your solar and battery to battery set up from before your Phoenix setup, as I think this is going to be adequate for my needs. I do want mains hook up capability though to top off and use direct when on sites though so we will see what I go for in the end. My van build is just a learning project for me too, to see what I actually need for my lifestyle then I will probs sell and buy an AWD Van later as my final build. This is just to get out there doing it! to really work out what I need long term. Your electric's are good as it shows us all the options out there... well just about all of them... ;-) cheers matey
Hi Alex
On this video at 14.31 you show a Victron schematic for two consumer units.
Just having a system fitted to my Adria van, any chance of a copy of the schematic.
FYI using two roamer 460 batteries and 12v/3000 watt inverter plus mppt, shunt 50amp DC/DC.
Thanks in advance.
So schematics are available for free on the Victron website. best options to find the model of inverter you have, scroll to the bottom and there is a example schematics tab with lots of options
Excellent choice of batteries 👌
at 12:50: if the system in your van is floating/isolated, then stepping out while touching the live chassis has no return path to the SOURCE, because your van is not grounded to an earth rod or something. the same aplies to floating generators, you can touch the live safely. remember, current always reurns to the source. take care!
The danger is live would short to Earth If you have a live chassis fault Nothing would happen until and you stepped out the into earth and you became the unfortunate conductor between them both. Having a RCD and a AC side of the electrical system earth bonded to the vehicle chassis would cause the RCD trip in such a scenario.
The victron unit can pass through the shore power in which case it joins the shore power earth to the inverter earth so if it's connected to the van chassis then that will be at the same potential as the ground outside so no shocks when getting in and out. The inverter can also operate to boost the shore power if it's limited to 6amp for example. There is a relay in the inverter to disconnect the shore power earth I believe (for when you are away from shore power).
ANGRY TYPING!!!!!
It wasn’t for you commenting haha I would of been expecting a barrage of insults hah
Holy feck m8, confusing😂
Can be a complicated bit of equipment
1st comment 🤘