Introverted Sensing - Si - Senses - Explained Correctly
Вставка
- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- If you ever want help finding out your true Jungian personality type, please email worldsocionics@hotmail.com with 'Find my Type' in the title to book your paid Diagnostic Interview.
My comprehensive crash course on Socionics will be released early next year to a paying audience, so if you would like to be notified when it is available, please email worldsocionics@hotmail.com with 'Course' in the title to be on my 2023 reminder list.
#introvertedsensing #cognitivefunctions #socionics #mbti #myersbriggs #isfp #istp
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subscribe: www.youtube.co...
Become a Patron: / worldsocionics
Join our Facebook group: / worldsocionicssociety
Like our Facebook page: / worldsocionicssociety
Check out our Blog: worldsocionics....
Thank you~~very well said. I am 62, ISTJ, and my whole life has been built around establishing peace, comfort (coziness), and stability. But I am prepared for a disruption and will hopefully take it in stride (to the best of my ability). 🙂
Glad it rang true. A key difference between an ISTJ and say, an INFP, or INTP, is the ISTJ has enough awareness and ability to handle Se that they can weather the disruption and manage it away. For these other types, the Se is often too much for their Si to handle.
@@WorldSocionics My motto in life has always been "hope for the best, prepare for the worst" haha.
So if the intp / infp can't rely on si, they should rely on ti/ fi to deal with those obstacles?@@WorldSocionics
"The valuing of S makes these types appreciative of comfort, utility and overall quality of experience. These types want life to run smoothly and enjoyably, placing emphasis on the harmony of the here and now. Decisions are made in regards to what is pleasurable or painless in the moment and lifestyles are usually centered around deriving quality of life and satisfaction from the things one currently has, rather than striving or fighting to get more things. When changes are made, they are to improve the quality of one's current existence, often by removing disruption".
Is this description both Si and Se?
@@NoOne-wt6om I would say Si since this video is giving an explanation of it.
Si
Video starts at 3:08
I love Si 💛
sounds like a yoga guru , i have these moments i can perform them but not my focus even though i have seen the improvements over time now in my 40s and even the need for it good explanation
You do go into it a bit at the end of the video, but one has to clarify where how the past focused perception of SJs connects to the basic functioning of Si as you describe it: Because Si wants harmony and pleasure, it wants things to slow down and not change too hastily, so that it can be incooperated (or left out) from their accepted environment.
Harmony and stability. The pleasure part is more Si+Fe specifically.
I;m an enfp or IEE and I really appreciate Si, it helps me take care of my bodily needs, to relax, to calm down and be at peace, to savour each moment.
Jung was very confused about Si, which is for me a further proof that he was an Ni dom and not INTP as many people seem to think. Ni doms rarely even understand the concept of Si cosiness, it is too far from their own experience to even conceptualize it. His descriptions always reminded me of someone trying to catch a very fleeting thought, making it out more mysterious than it actually is.
I will simply add to this point that in Depth Typology, Mark Hunziker considers Jung to be an INTJ. It is indeed interesting to see how Jung in his many works brings in countless factual data points throughout history to illustrate his intuitions.
No, he definitely is an INTP. Ni doms can't conceptualize systems of this type
I had an epiphany some days back and it was that Si is like homeostasis addiction, and basically as you say about bringing things, sensations, back into harmony. I have a hard time grasping Si conceptually. I think because I use Ni-Se, and find that more relatable to my own experience. It's maybe that my Se can't physically grasp it, that I had to come up with an Ni image for it, but I do think it may best be described as a homeostasis addiction. I look at all the cognitive functions as addictive modes of thinking, and that one I think could be relevant to how the body can depend on homeostasis, and that these individuals perhaps have a higher biological propensity or cognitive wiring for building and maintaining it.
Insightful observations. Thanks Jack!
So can it be safe to say that memory in general is really tailored to each cognitive function?
So Si doms - best at detailed Si memory.
Se doms - best at accumulation, power Se type memory
Ni doms - best at memory of holistic trends and meanings
and so on...
I believe so, yes.
Jack getting aggressive! I love it: ) 👍🏼
I had to watch this a few more times and i have to say thank you ,
even though im aware of the refining nature of the introverted functions, i guess due to polr te i didn't know which source to trust
like jungs version and its connection with introversion is still consistent with this, but its thru a certain lens and degree ,
nevertheless the clarity or distinction of proselytizing forward the term refining hermetically sealed that jar for me (TY)
because aside from implicit and explicit memory (declarative and procedural) and the fact that there are different kinds of memory, like for example with mike said about the introverted functions being listening functions ,well then that would point to memory functions if they are to retain and interpret, (like fi sentimental memories)
(perhaps due to having ni-ti i can remember when i had my thoughts, how i came to those thoughts and conclusions.)
Perhaps due to a visual thinking & internal monologue i can especially remember things like my dreams and conversations that i find important (and everything i have read or heard even if my recall is slow because i have to trigger it )
But i can remember visons, premonitions i can remember everything that happened in my past and other peoples past due to what they confide in me , things i hear randomly from strangers I absorb everything , i can remember movies music i darn near have if i don't eidetic memory , history feels like its happened to me, because of how much history i have studied.
History was one of my favorite subjects in school aside from psychology, philosophy, biology, mythology, math(mostly economics and chaos theory and probability) when i didn't have to show my work , , theology, music & art , English lit and occult knowledge but that part was my independent studies i was allowed to do being in the gifted program
my memory is part of why i suffer from cptsd but for the love of me i cannot remember algebra formulas or math procedures, like i can retrain it while im doing it, but when it has no direct use its gone (im not bad at math i can arrive at the answer in my head i just cannot show my work let alone reproduce the requested method or even walk someone through mine
so all of the introverted functions would be memory, which means they all leave an impression, or imprint,
so there's no way that could be Soley memory like personality hacker suggest or homeostasis in full because someone's ego functions would be their homeostatic or planetary alignment or comfort .
so si is more like the refining of ones skills , like cooking getting the flavor just right , or getting a half a second down on you timing for swing, or art , singing, even sex , speaking not cs.j experiencing but to some degree it would be reining ones sensory experience , which if you think about could and very well would lead someone unhealthy or undeveloped to become like how jung seen in his patients
for me my memory of experienced life outside my head is like one long day where i take naps so its a solid time stream easy to track and predict what i need to prepare for if patterns reoccur that i wish to avoid so i can perceive and discern whats coming towards me or mine .
so thank you for this distinction
Maybe Beebe got his "Demonic" label by looking at Jung's attitude towards Si!
psychological types isnt the center of jungs ouevre anyway, but in our community people think that
I find it bizarre when people equate memory or nostalgia with Si types, as though others don't or can't do them. Nostalgia has as much time do with Fi, and any type can have a good memory. The idea Se is more about wanting to expand and accumulate ever more experience in the outside world whereas Si is more about wanting to refine, finesse, delve into the subtleties of a more limited range of experiences more focussed on the subject is interesting, someone on another channel suggests Se is more about wanting to have shared experiences rather than necessarily
new ones, whereas Si is more focussed on the subjective for the individual which is a another interesting take on it. The difference seems to be that Se remembers primarily what's personally important, whereas Si retains more of that which isn't necessarily, but in it's subjective impressions of the present can easily miss some of the objective detail. The Se/Si does seem to cause a lot of confusion, misunderstandings.
What understanding of the ENTP or ESFJ wouldn't want to share experiences with others? That definition is obviously wrong. I think making Extroversion to do with 'sharing with others' is ridiculous, and another example of how Jung lumping self vs. others and subjectivity vs. objectivity in with depth vs. breadth leads to bad typology.
I think you mixed up Se and Si there towards the end. Retaining only that which is important should be very closely related to Introversion. Accumulating more than what is of quality should be closely related to Extroversion.
Agreed. Si is not accumulating experience but Si users tend to accumulate things, they are the stereotypical hoarders. The explanation is that they want to have the reserves to continue their idealistic cosy state.
Yes assuming ESFJ or ENTP wouldn't want to share experiences with others is as false as saying INFJ or INTJ have bad menories. I agree Si is more likely to hang on to personal experiences (and therefore objects to which they attach associations) than Se, but Se is perhaps more likely to notice details in the concrete present being less immersed in the subjective impression.
@@goldennuggets75 Well, what if Ni doms have bad memory? Not only that, but what if everyone has bad memory? Have you tried making Ti PoLRs remember Ti data? Or Ni PoLRs remember Ni data? Si PoLRs Si data? ... What if you will have trouble sparking even an interest, yet alone making them remember some meaningful amount of such (for them useless) data for more than 2 months?
Maybe with a better understanding of how different types use memory one could use it as a meaningful marker to help determine someone's type.
@@ParameterGrenze - Anecdote would contradict this. I am the hoarder. I see the potential in keeping everything, and find it hard to throw things away. My Si wife feels the clutter and needs things to be freshened up, and calls upon me to do the spring cleaning.
Dude you explained it perfectly
Just stumble upon Yr channel today and am liking it! This is my 3rd video after istj and Se. You gave a very good archetypal description of Se, which is a warrior in its healthy form, and a hedonist in its unhealthy form (paraphrasing here). Do you have one for Si? I think the example can help this information stick better. Thanks.
I've been mapping out Keirseys types with the Socionics functions and IM SO MAD THAT THIS IS SO FREAKING OBVIOUS BUT I MISSED IT... If you look at the space time continuum, sensation operates in the space portion of it. Intuition operates in the time portion of the concept. I've given the ISTJ the functions Ti-Se-Ni-Fe and the ISTP the functions of Si-Te-Fi-Ne and it still works because of the inherent lack of awareness of the outcomes that artisans possess. I'll have to do some more testing but so far it seems like you are correct towards the xSxP types all leading with sensation (ESxPs with Se and ISxPs with Si). The ISTP craftsman refining the material they're crafting. I'll watch the ISTP video next but just wanted to say thanks for being stubborn :D
Intriguing. Please tell me more of what exactly you tested.
@@WorldSocionics For starters, I lined up the xSxPs and using your explanation for the introverted perception functions putting emphasis on refining as opposed to gathering, the explanation for the ISTP SiTe craftsman and ISFP SiFe Composer/mediator still works as they're refining the sensory and they heavily value their Ne as this is where the projected vision of their works come from, even though it isn't what they're naturally good at.
For the ISTJ TiSe, they're acquiring the sensory data and processing it through their Ti to make logically sounding structures that uphold the rules and regulations around society. For the ISFJ FiSe, they're the guardians because they care so deeply for those close to them via Fi and are comfortable with Se forcefulness through encounters when necessary to stand their ground. I'm not claiming to have a perfect understanding just yet but so far it seems like it could work in tandem with Keirseys explanation of the types.
I want to make sure it all lines up well before continuing so take this with a grain of salt.
Here is Keirseys label side by side with Gulenkos labels for all the types. You can see that the sensors have symmetrical function application, with the guardians all having one of each of the 4 judgement functions and the Artisans having both percetion functions as the dominant function. For the intuitives, the cognitive functions dont fit perfectly yet so Im still brainstorming on that one.
- ESTJ - Supervisor - Te Si Ne Fi - LSE Administrator
- ESFJ - Provider - Fe Si Ne Ti - ESE Enthusiast
- ISTJ - Inspector - Ti Se Ni Fe - LSI Inspector
- ISFJ - Protector - Fi Se Ni Te - ESI Guardian
- ESTP - Promoter - Se Ti Fe Ni - SLE Marshall
- ESFP - Performer - Se Fi Te Ni - SEE Politician
- ISTP - Crafter - Si Te Fi Ne - SLI Craftsman
- ISFP - Composer - Si Fe Ti Ne - SEI Mediator
- ENTJ - Field marshal - Te Ni Se Fi - LIE Entrepreneur
- ENTP - Inventor - Ne Ti Fe Si - ILE Searcher
- INTJ - Mastermind - Ni Te Fi Se - ILI Critic
- INTP - Architect - Ti Ne Si Fe - LII Analyst
- ENFJ - Teacher - Fe Ni Se Ti - EIE Mentor
- ENFP - Champion - Ne Fi Te Si - IEE Advisor
- INFJ - Counselor - Ni Fe Ti Se - IEI Lyric Poet
- INFP - Healer - Fi Ne Si Te - EII Humanist
Scratch that. I think I got it for the NTs and NFs. NTs have both thinking and intuition as their dominant functions while the NFs have both feeling and intuition as their dominant functions. so the symmetry is still there but it just doesnt match the sensors in that way.
Introverted sensers are hobbits and I'm okay with that
I’m curious where Se might be represented if it’s consciously avoided until it’s truly necessary (by way of “I believe it’s necessary”) to use. Kind of like sitting back and gauging how much “passion” is needed while you watch people make stupid choices and then you can’t handle their idiocy anymore and go at em in a hot headed, pushy way? It’s not the preference to use and isn’t enjoyed in any way, but sort of bubbles up and is seemingly well used. I feel like that is an Si lead thing but could it be Se creative?
There does seem to be an emphasis though among Si base types and maintaining existing systems. It does very much seem related to tradition and maintaining established norms, customs, ways of doing things. The counterpoint to this is Ne which wants to try novel approaches and experiences. And together they balance each other. Do you disagree?
They like stability and moderation, because upheavals are intense and disruptive, but that doesn't mean they reject ideas and possibilities outside of their experiences. They hate to feel like they are stagnating because that isn't harmonious either. They just want to be led into new ideas at a pace that feels organic and manageable. They can be "bath tub" personalities rather than people who jump in.
Si has little part of traditions that Te,Fe
Excellent video
5:18 how does it work when you ask an ENxJ to tell you what they did a day before or 2 days before, with as many details as they can, they cant remember any details, unlike if you compare that to an ISxJ they can recall 50 time more details from a day before, how can we actually conclude that Si isnt connected to memory than if there is an obvious correlation, its like saying guns dont kill people if you dont shoot them.
I think this statement about ENxJs is an exaggeration. Everyone can remember SOME details, unless there's something wrong with your brain.
Types that are strong in Ne and weak in Si can have poorer memories for detail in particular sure, but that's no different between an ENxP and an ENxJ. I definitely struggle to remember sensory detail, but my memory is very good for concepts and trivia. Similarly, ENTJs have a great memory for facts, much better than an ISFJ. They absorb it like a sponge. They just don't pay attention to the embodied, qualitatively sensoric side.
Memory is a much more multifaceted thing than recall of detail and different types will remember different things. It's wrong to attach it to any Element, but right to say that it manifests differently depending on the Element being remembered.
@@WorldSocionics"but that's no different between an ENxP" i would say im an enxp if i typed myself correctly, and i agree that i also struggle to remember the sensory detail. The point is if an enxp tries to recall the details, they are gonna need some time but eventually will be able to recall a lot of unnecessary details, unlike enxjs who i have seen can not recall, if they do, the amount they recall is still up to 10x lesser than i am able to when thinking about it for some time. I agree with the fact they have great memory for facts, and that memory in general is more multifaceted thing than a simple recall of detail, but we still can not ignore the fact that they can not do it, they can give a few generalising answers to what they "usually" do, or just sum up their day in a "i had breakfast, went to work, went to a different part of town" that doesnt sound like much detail does it, why should we than ignore the "recalling of the unnecessary details" from a day before, when there is an obvious difference with "i have a problem with remembering sensory details too" and "i can not tell you any unnecessary details about yesterday" We can again say memory is more multifaceted thing but it obviously is connected, choosing to ignore it for the sake of argument would be ignorant dont you think?
@@BigPapa64469 How have you tested this assertion? I believe my parents to be both ENxJs, one ENFJ, the other ENTJ. They aren't great at detail recall, but I wouldn't say they are any worse in it than I am, we're all poor at it. How do you reliably test the difference between "gonna need some time" versus, "10x lesser than" that?
I think the only meaningful difference here is that, while an ENxP might want to try to recall a pleasant sensory experience to mind, an ENxJ is less likely to see any point in trying. It won't be interesting to them, where it might be interesting to an ENxP who is trying to get in touch with the finer nuances of their sense impressions.
The Strength is the same, the Value is different.
The point is, there is no reason to connect Memory to Si over any other cognitive function. ENTJs often have marvellous memories for factual information, for instance. Conceptual memory is just as valid as detail memory. An ISFx type with Si Lead may recall sensory experiences well, but struggle to retain any large quantity of facts. Keeping these different facets in mind, it is an ignorance to believe that the ISFJ has a better memory overall than the ENTJ.
You are absolutely right, I can confirm from lifelong experience (of myself and all my family members) that we have terrible recall compared to ENTP and ENFP friends and relatives. A very obvious fact that is easily observed over just a couple of days (not to mention decades).
@@WorldSocionics Jack, your father is ENTP like you, just a different subtype.
Your mom is likely to be ENTP, as well, since people usually marry within their type.
We project onto our parents since the day we first met them, we can't possibly be detached and objective enough to type them correctly. Also, this is complicated by the fact that parents tend to treat their offspring differently than they treat "regular" people, usually they are in their "Parent" Ego State (see Eric Berne) and treat them as if they were destined to forever be subordinate to them (unless they are the rare wise ones).
Jung was writing about '"introverted sensation", not about "introverted sensing". Those two perceptions are different, have some correlations, but different. Further investigation needed on these topics. I am not here to argue with you, i've found your content just about a few minutes ago surfing on youtube.
Jung wrote in German and these are synonymous.
Re introverting functions "refining": do you see the refining as idiosyncratic?
0:23 😂😂😂
Epicurus, SLI?
Is the imaginary sensory external as well?
If Si is external, than what do you call sensing hunger, thirst, pain, sleepiness, etc???? That seems to be the most logical definition/counterpart to hearing/seeing/smelling/tasting touching. If I am wrong, then what is the "real and correct" term for hunger/thirst/sleepiness/pain etc?
These are all signals of physical stimulus or deprivation. Nothing about it is found in the mind's eye, but from the body's interaction with reality.
@@WorldSocionics OK...Thank you!
So socionics isn't more close interpretation of Jung as many socionics people claimed to me
closer in some ways, more divergent in other ways. It is, however, an improvement in all ways currently apparent to me.
Ni ignoring makes ILE seems so much like LSE it's a little disturbing.
interesting insight, what brought this to mind?
@@WorldSocionics Hard to say exactly, it's observation I've made before. There's a methodical way you have of moving through an explanation that circumscribes an insight which from an Ni perspective might seem a little like stating the obvious. If you're skirting around implication for the sake of Ti clarity, I tend to note the absence of it in speech the same way I might in someone who has it as a blind slot. I suppose the LSE places an intrinsic/pragmatic value on ordering of information but for you it is a way of exploring the structure.
@@mulpex well, the Ignoring and the Vulnerable are 'lookalike' functions, so this makes sense. My approach in this context is trying to show Jungian typology to be deducted from base principles as much as possible. That can mean avoiding leaps of inference. Where there is a leap, I try to fill in all the gaps.
@@WorldSocionics Oh interesting. This made me notice that these types form a benefit relationship, so it may be for the same reason that LII and IEI get compared to each other so often.
@@mulpex this is correct and adjacents on the Benefit ring are often confused for eachother.
You contradict yourself. When you check if the sensation you are receiving is harmonious, makes you feel balanced, you're checking within yourself..checking against some peaceful.or.comfortable experiences you have had in the past....thereby making the whole process internal or introverted.
One can tell the harmony of sensory impressions based on how they relate to eachother, e.g. Blue complementing orange. The individual being in harmony with their physical environment is no exception. It's not about looking inward.
@@WorldSocionics I have a question, I would be eternally grateful if you could answer it for me, please. Is the content on the 8 cognitive functions in MBTI Notes Tumblr reliable?
@@Neartr I would say that the content on the 8 cognitive functions by any MBTI source is unlikely to be reliable, because they have incoherent definitions. All the introverted functions have been twisted to be shoehorned into their J/P switch , and some important traits have been misassociated, so being a primally dominant human being is linked to Te a thinking function, when it should be amore instinctive sensing function, specifically Se.
Is experiencing overwhelm with too many options a symptom of Si-polar?
Clarification: Too many sensory options. Such as too many options when you're trying to buy something mundane like a refrigerator or a storm lantern.
S4 means a few things... 1) Stubborn and Weam Sensation, which can increase the likelihood of either feeling overwhelmed with sensory data, or out of control, or hating certain noises or sensations. Then 2) the need to move from Demonstrative Ideas to Mobilising Force, meaning an impatience with indecision and a need to push forwards despite being aware of so many options, and becoming much more indecisive when lacking confidence in a situation.
9:40 this sounds not boring for me but i hate it lol.. no for slow ppl bruh
It still sounds weird to me that ISTP (TiSe) is rigid and forcing rules on people but ISTJ (SiTe) is harmonious and easy going. It's the opposite in MBTI.
Well, that's why Ti+Se is actually ISTJ, and Si+Te is actually ISTP. MBTI gets the J/P wrong.
@@WorldSocionicsIt's better for mbti to stick on 4 letters code imo
All of these quality definitions were from the sardines with the pasta from yesterday … your wifu doesn’t understand the secret
Si = Hobbits
𝓅𝓇o𝓂o𝓈𝓂 ✔️
So here's a question, you say that si isn't necessarily clinging onto the past and freaking out when things deviate from it "what works before will work again". Now I'll admit that was my understanding of it because it matched my experiences with istj and isfj family members pretty well. Plenty of acedotal experiences to back that up. So if si isn't directly connected with adherence to the past and reluctance to let go then maybe it's a common byproduct of the need to refine. If one prefers to take a sensation and refine it rather than expand upon it wouldn't it make sense the outward behavioral manifestation of that would seem to others as reluctance to try new experiences?
Well, what are some of the anecdotal experiences you have had with family that you have interpreted as things deviating from the past? Let's align on the data first.
@@WorldSocionics sure thing, I got a few off the top of my head available atm. So first off for reference I started recently on socionics, much more familiar with mbti cognitive functions and structure so for the sake of accuracy I'll be using those type shorthands to avoid confusion. I myself am an Infp, in mbti, EII soc. I have 2 istj sisters whom most of these examples come from but also isfj and estjs are in the fam.
@@shaggyd00kale58 okay, please feel free to elaborate
@@WorldSocionics busy day. Ok so example 1. Infp bro in law and I are driving a truck with furniture in the back. Istj sister (his wife) had a specific route planned out expected to be followed by us while she tagged behind in different car. It had less traffic and other factors. We missed a turn, can't remember why but none the less as I expected his phone immediately went off and my sister was yelling at us why we deviated off course. For us it was easier to let go of the plan and adapt.
@@WorldSocionics example 2 same sister. Parents 50th surprise bday party. Youngest bro (infj) and I just needed to get away from the crowd for a bit. So we trail off. She comes barreling over after us to make sure we were at the proper place when the folks arrived. She kept yelling at us to come back because they were close to arrive but failed to realize my bro and I didn't care, it took my infp bro in law to calm her down and let go.