Interesting thing is that Donna may have saved CJ's life. Without Donna getting Josh, CJ keeps it a secret. The Secret Service aren't watching her email. Granted that CJ would receive the email of the pictures and that would certainly alarm the hell out of her, but until then she's a target. Come to think of it, she was no more a target then than before. Nevermind. Donna didn't save her.
@@Michael-dy2lb naw, Donna did the right thing. the ball got rolling as CJ was getting at the least, stalked, and at worse, cased. SS wouldn't have known until too late to get pro-active.
@@Michael-dy2lb With her busy schedule, if she had decided the threat wasn't anything to worry about, she might have routed the rest into her junk mail folder and not seen the pictures. For sure Donna may have saved her life.
@@Michael-dy2lb The sad thing is, with social media lynch mobs, everyone is now getting rape threats, death threats, doxes and swats. Election workers, court clerks, judges, uni presidents, professors, school board members, teachers.
when she asks him "is there any evidence ?" and his eyes move from her to the president - says it all. he was one of my favourite characters on the show.
@@waldopepper4069 not to mention the whole conversation that happened between Butterfield and Bartlet in two seconds - with their eyes - before CJ was shown the photos. There aren't many actors who can pull that off. Michael O'Neill, Martin Sheen, and Sir Anthony Hopkins are three of them.
The way she closes her suit jacket as she realizes her privacy has been violated by the perp... chef's kiss. AJ deserves her Oscar, all her Emmys and then some
When Ron Butterfield (perfect name, btw) sits down at CJ’s desk he reaches around and holds the side of his chest. He’s holding onto the gun he’s wearing in a shoulder holster. We never see the gun but that’s an actor who has studied for his role and a brilliant subtle touch.
If you watch In the Shadow of Two Gunmen, Ron checks the president for injuries when they’re in the limo. According to the actor, that’s how the secret service actually do it.
This is all due to Micheal O'Neill doing his research. Unlike some men who always play police or military, O'Neill was never in either. He played basketball in college and went directly into acting. So all of these small touches are due to him going to the right people, asking questions and making absolutely sure he had it all down.
@@Elthenar Absolutely. It’s a clear sign of an actor putting in the work. I’m sure as research he met with the real deal, maybe even was allowed to observe while on duty. And I would bet that he’s actually wearing something under the suit jacket to help feel more in character. No one writes these little character bits into a script and no director suggests it. This all comes from the actor showing up prepared.
@@MsJaytee1975That is why Reagan survived his assassination attempt. That and a bunch of other “lucky” breaks that was actually someone thinking it out before it could happen.
I'm reasonably sure that they probably just had a set of tools on a server in the White House that the Secret Service could access for such occasions. Otherwise, fair call.
@@samueljones7571 No. Sophisticated hacking tools, at the time, were kept in a GSA rated classified storage container. They were not kept on the network. Want to know why? Because if you had a reason to need those tools in an instant to look at a credible threat, such as a network intrusion, then the threat actor had access to them, too. From inside your network. The reason tracert was used, in this case, is because it's a basic tool that came standard as part of DOS, and continues to be standard on most operating systems.
IT here! Running a trace route from that computer would be useless, at best it would just lead back to the mail server of the White House, because that is what distributes the email to computers. You could see where the email came from on the mail server side though.
There is so much subtlety in these scenes, C.J. shrugging the threat off, Donna & Josh taking the threat seriously, Ron's professionalism, touching the spot where his gun is, Bartlett showing his love & respect for the people who "serve at the pleasure of the president," the look that passes between Ron & Bartlet when CJ asks for proof, CJ's sense of violation as she buttons her jacket on seeing the photos. Each actor brings their A game to these scenes.
I always remember the time that Ron got shot in the hand and didn't even mention it until Bartlet noticed that he was bleeding and then refused to let the President take him to the hospital, because his job was to get the President to safety. His own health could wait until that objective has been achieved. Ron is absolutely a professional, he is good at his job and takes it very seriously.
@@JamesTobiasStewart Or When Toby is freaking out post assassination attempt and Ron calmly puts him down with "this was nobody's fault, Toby. This was the work of madmen. Anyway the Secret Service doesn't comment on procedure". He's just 100% class all the way.
The most terrifying thing about Ron Butterfield is how calm Ron Butterfield is. President's been attacked? Calm. Shot in the hand? Calm. Someone firing on the WH? Calm. CJ getting threatened? Calming looking out her window when she arrives for work. Calm.
That is a well know body language cue. Some thing a person will do if they feel threatened or attacked, just be aware that people also button their jackets when they feel cold.
When you realize Ron already briefed Bartlet on the pictures and they didn't want CJ to know about them knowing how they would make her feel and just wanted her to sign the approval for secret service protection.
I love the character of Ron Butterfield. He’s a stone cold professional who has obviously seen and done some dark sh1t, but underneath that armor there’s obviously someone who cares deeply for the people he protects.
My father was in the US Secret Service, from Kennedy to Bush 41. At one point he was the SAIC of the entire White House complex. Essentially, Ron Butterfield’s character. And yes, my father did see and do some wild and dark stuff in his time.
The way that Ron never says Please to CJ, the menace he gives off by just being 'Ron' and that glance between him and the President is just pure TV majic,,,,
Starting with the top aide to the Deputy Chief of Staff. To the Deputy Chief of Staff. To the Head of the Presidential Detail for the Secret Service. To the President of the United States. The way this show managed to flawlessly blend professionalism with friendship is what made this show so damn dynamic! On one hand, security of White House staff is paramount. On the other, when someone comes after any member of the White House family, it's all hands on deck. Love it!
This might be somewhat off-topic. But I wonder what kind of White House “family atmosphere” there’s going to be with the incoming Trump 🎺 administration come January … I cannot for the life of me imagine that these people could genuinely care for one another. They’re all so filled with righteousness, anger, vengefulness, raging ambition, us-against-the-world fanaticism. What will the USSS agents think in their deepest of personal thoughts? They’ll be putting their life on the line for hateful people … People who will be, deliberately or through blind faith, working to actually, physically weaken the US and the post-WWII system of liberal democracy.
Exactly, they wanted to spare her knowing just how bad the situation is, Bartlett was being forceful because he didn't want to have to show her, it was only when they had no choice he begrudgingly looked at Ron and had him show her. I can imagine the conversation they had before CJ walked in, Ron showing Bsrtlett the photos, them agreeing CJ needs protection, Bartlett saying he doesn't want her to know, Ron saying they may have to tell her, and Bartlett saying he can get her to agree and she doesn't have to know.
Considering that Ron had the President's bloody head on his hands and he's still alive, there was no hesitation when Jed insisted on the protection detail.
CJ pitches an absolute fit until Ron shows her the photos the stalker took of her and sent to her email. Then she realizes what's happening is very very REAL!
Not saying you're wrong or anything, but that last scene made me feel almost the exact opposite. Bartlet and Ron try to strong-arm her and Bartlet mocks her before they even bother to explain how severe the situation actually is. The person threatening her life has literally been photo-scouting her home, and then emailed it to her (an email that she didn't get the chance to look at before they shoved the secret service agreement in her face), but apparently it's more important for her boss and the head of the Secret Service to make fun of her for not wanting a detail, than it is to actually explain to her WHY she needs one. If I'm CJ in that moment, I'm feeling a lot of things. Valued by my boss and the people in that room is NOT what one of them 😂
@@noahbrown6970 This is honestly something that TWW did well. Bartlet is strong-arming her. But it's not because he thinks he can. It's because he's afraid for his family and he has every right to be considering what happened with Charlie. Ron is just doing his job and in some respect can't become an empathic persuader so much as a rational member of security. And CJ is used to hate mail but doesn't know threat assessment so she doesn't take the threat as seriously as she should. As for Bartlet's mockery, it's literally the thing he does when he's angry. And there's a whole track record through the show pointing out how that helps and hurts and Tobey mentions he does that because of his father. And he's right to be angry. At least, in his mind. CJ isn't taking a legitimate threat seriously from the jump (it took 3 emails for it to get to him about her need for security) and the last time someone got death threats he and Josh got shot for it. Ultimately, TWW did well writing characters with flaws that popped at bad times. Bartlet was the first to start the shouting match and to put down others when he got angry even when a cool head matters. CJ was used to taking so much flak that she had bad threat assessment (seen here and with both shootings). And many more that aren't relevant to this scene.
Look, I’m a huge, huge, HUGE fan of TWW. Even 25 years later, it’s still, to me, by far the best tv show ever ever ever. That being said, having established my admiration for the show as well as for Aaron Sorkin, I’ve often disliked the way they wrote the interactions featuring C.J. It’s often somewhat dismissive of her. I still can’t fathom why they would write her character that way.
they kept their eye on the prize--they needed that paper signed. CJ got strong-armed because she got in the way of that. They didn't want to alarm her in order to get their job done if they could get her to just sign the paperwork. that decision is debatable. but what CJ thought was important was the sign of weakness--what they thought was important was keeping her alive. Guiding Olive does raise a salient point about Bartlett repeating his father's way of communicating. As president, he does have to worry about being a liberal weak on crime, but as a man he doesn't have to worry about looking weak in the face of violence.
"He wants you, why doesn't he want me?" This writing is insane. I've watched 4 of these snippets in a row and now I have to watch the entire series again.
No reason it shouldn't be exactly like the show in that regard. It used to bug me, but now I look at it as Puck's "If we have offended..." speech from Midsummer.
This show is full of subtle touches by the actors in their performances. I love the way Donna brushed her hand on Josh's sholder then started pushing him. Little things like this shows the bonds between the characters.
what I like is that he does not sit down and immediately react, there is a pause as he "actually" reads the email the pres "around here we do what Ron says" love it
@@alertgasper It's something a lot of current-day directors and writers haven't learned: The power of suggestion can sometimes be more effective than simply showing everything. A lot of what is shown so graphically nowadays wouldn't need to be graphic if the director understood the power of suggestion and letting the viewer's imagination do the rest.
@@rowanaforrest9792 true--just because someone has the tech and budget for CGI or FX, doesn't mean they can't let a little good "suggestion" go on. Let the audience get involved in a scene by imagining themselves, rather than having the material spoon-fed to them.
This scene where she is shown the evidence, great writing! People who feel violated (privacy/stalked) , her actions, closing her jacket, moving her arms in a defense posture. Every victim does this, its the one thing they can control.
I loved Michael O'Neill as Ron Butterfield. Always so calm and in charge - was so good when the President go shot. Michael O'Neill was excellent in all the scenes he had......
When Michael O'Neill got the role, he actually sought out the Secret Service agent who got President Reagan into the car on the day he was shot and interviewed him. O'Neill only had a few lines in that episode, but he cared enough to find the one man on Earth who had actually done what he had to portray.
Same with CJ buttoning her jacket when seeing the pictures. She feels violated and even something as simple as buttoning a jacket can be psychologically soothing because it puts another layer between them and the threat.
Re-watching clips like these show me just how detail oriented they were. Ron has a gun, how would he sit? CJ is shown invasive photos, how would she react? Master class.
Ron was always the best character on the show. Between this and the post-Rosalin shooting scene between Toby and him. Great role and an underrated actor. Dismissing Cj's concern about her comments was masterful. Yeah, That's not this. Wait! What??
Loved the character of Ron Butterfield 😁 Wish he’d have had more scenes. Perfect use of spooky music when they lay out the photos, really lends a edge 🫣
Because it's not about politics, it's about people and their integrity. May our government be peopled with civil servants and politicians with HALF the integrity as these.
It often surprises me in what I generally consider high quality shows when competent, intelligent characters suddenly become dumb. House MD, The West Wing, etc. when characters won’t follow advice or instructions from people of knowledge, experience, and expertise. I get that it’s for drama, but at the same time…”c’mon CJ. Listen to the Secret Service. Sign the paper.”
CJ wasn't a character who suddenly became dumb in this moment. She was absolutely right when she said it would make her appear fragile. Very easy for her critics to say "oh look, the little girl needs protection." She didn't know how serious the threat was. President Bartlett was trying to protect her by trying not to tell her just how serious the threat was, but even he knew she wasn't going to just do what he told her to do. That's why they had the pictures ready. Had CJ walked into that office and just willingly accepted she needed protection, it actually would have lessened her character.
@@jasonkoch3182 Agree to disagree. There have been plenty of moments within the series where she expected, if not demanded, that others defer to her expertise in specific matters. That said, her portrayal (IMHO) would have honored character continuity if she were to acknowledge Ron’s input while also stating her concerns about appearances. Instead she outright dismisses his concerns and recommendations knowing full well that he isn’t just pulling that out of his butt. That’s an inconsistency that I find annoying in shows like this.
It’s not often you see this astute level of commentary to TV clips. I missed it entirely, it was my parents’ favourite show. Going to start at season 1 episode 1…
And keep in mind, there had just been a shooting that nearly killed Bartlett and Josh because a white supremacist group hated Charlie and Zoe together. Charlie had been receiving death threats all season and no one took it too seriously until it was too late.
Lol, "trace route tools". So he read the email header and then ran a tracert to the email server - in about 3 seconds - and it told him all that? He knew the IP address ? Did he recognise it ? Only possible if he was behind the entire thing.
Michael O'Neill, who plays Ron, plays Judge Roy in the Leverage episode "The Bank Shot Job." In that, he's a smug, perverted, corrupt judge who lords over a small town. A stark contrast to Ron's cool and calculated demeanor.
Everyone was great in each scene. But when Ron showed CJ the pictures, Alison sort of turns into herself. And the buttoning the jacket, showing how exposed she feels.
The look Ron gives the president as CJ is trying to get out of it, stops CJ in her tracks. One of maybe 3 people in the federal government to overrule a president Secret Service Doctor Chief of staff (?)
It genuinely annoys me that they portray an incredibly smart person like CJ as someone who would blithely refuse Secret Service protection, and even more so that she would push back this hard against the President's wishes. The writers did her dirty in this episode.
"Because Ron says it is, and around here we do whatever Ron says."
I'd love to have this level of confidence from my boss.
Ron has literally taken a bullet for the President before.
So what you're saying is that Ron is the head of the deep state
i had it for 25 years. it really is a great comfort.
I just have to comment I'm you're 666th like. \m/
I love Donna immediately breaking her word, and the look she gives CJ
Interesting thing is that Donna may have saved CJ's life. Without Donna getting Josh, CJ keeps it a secret. The Secret Service aren't watching her email. Granted that CJ would receive the email of the pictures and that would certainly alarm the hell out of her, but until then she's a target. Come to think of it, she was no more a target then than before. Nevermind. Donna didn't save her.
@@Michael-dy2lb naw, Donna did the right thing. the ball got rolling as CJ was getting at the least, stalked, and at worse, cased. SS wouldn't have known until too late to get pro-active.
@@Michael-dy2lb With her busy schedule, if she had decided the threat wasn't anything to worry about, she might have routed the rest into her junk mail folder and not seen the pictures. For sure Donna may have saved her life.
@@seanmcmurphy4744 That's a solid argument. She hadn't sent it to her junk email yet, but it's possible.
@@Michael-dy2lb The sad thing is, with social media lynch mobs, everyone is now getting rape threats, death threats, doxes and swats. Election workers, court clerks, judges, uni presidents, professors, school board members, teachers.
I love Ron. He virtually never raises his voice or acts threatening but he an air of absolute authority.
That actor was pretty good in The Unit, too.
@@marks47 I choose to believe that "Ron Butterfield" was an alias used by that guy, and that he was seconded form the Unit to the Secret Service.
Better than than SS today
when she asks him "is there any evidence ?" and his eyes move from her to the president - says it all. he was one of my favourite characters on the show.
@@waldopepper4069 not to mention the whole conversation that happened between Butterfield and Bartlet in two seconds - with their eyes - before CJ was shown the photos. There aren't many actors who can pull that off. Michael O'Neill, Martin Sheen, and Sir Anthony Hopkins are three of them.
The way she closes her suit jacket as she realizes her privacy has been violated by the perp... chef's kiss. AJ deserves her Oscar, all her Emmys and then some
7 Emmys
@@jesusthroughmary she got 4
@@kennethpaulsen5407 4 for TWW, 7 overall
@@kennethpaulsen5407 She got seven Emmy's in total, four were for West Wing.
@@Mybpeterson this was under the post about the west wing so she got 4 for the show. that she got 3 for some other things is not relevant to this.
When Ron Butterfield (perfect name, btw) sits down at CJ’s desk he reaches around and holds the side of his chest. He’s holding onto the gun he’s wearing in a shoulder holster. We never see the gun but that’s an actor who has studied for his role and a brilliant subtle touch.
If you watch In the Shadow of Two Gunmen, Ron checks the president for injuries when they’re in the limo. According to the actor, that’s how the secret service actually do it.
This is all due to Micheal O'Neill doing his research. Unlike some men who always play police or military, O'Neill was never in either. He played basketball in college and went directly into acting. So all of these small touches are due to him going to the right people, asking questions and making absolutely sure he had it all down.
@@Elthenar Absolutely. It’s a clear sign of an actor putting in the work. I’m sure as research he met with the real deal, maybe even was allowed to observe while on duty. And I would bet that he’s actually wearing something under the suit jacket to help feel more in character. No one writes these little character bits into a script and no director suggests it. This all comes from the actor showing up prepared.
He is such an amazing character actor. I see him on the screen and get excited every single time. I know he will be good.
@@MsJaytee1975That is why Reagan survived his assassination attempt. That and a bunch of other “lucky” breaks that was actually someone thinking it out before it could happen.
I love the way the Secret Service guy puts his hand under his armpit as he sits down so his pistol doesn't shift forward. That's attention to detail.
Pro
Thanks for pointing that out!
I love how the head of the Presidential Detail for the Secret Service sits down and begins hacking away at a traceroute.
Likely rose up through the ranks. Did it himself as an assignment before, I'm sure. Good stuff.
I'm reasonably sure that they probably just had a set of tools on a server in the White House that the Secret Service could access for such occasions. Otherwise, fair call.
@@samueljones7571 No. Sophisticated hacking tools, at the time, were kept in a GSA rated classified storage container. They were not kept on the network. Want to know why? Because if you had a reason to need those tools in an instant to look at a credible threat, such as a network intrusion, then the threat actor had access to them, too.
From inside your network.
The reason tracert was used, in this case, is because it's a basic tool that came standard as part of DOS, and continues to be standard on most operating systems.
@@samueljones7571 I mean, it's The West Wing. Who cares, right? It's just shoeleather to do it any other way. Still, love seeing it.
IT here! Running a trace route from that computer would be useless, at best it would just lead back to the mail server of the White House, because that is what distributes the email to computers. You could see where the email came from on the mail server side though.
There is so much subtlety in these scenes, C.J. shrugging the threat off, Donna & Josh taking the threat seriously, Ron's professionalism, touching the spot where his gun is, Bartlett showing his love & respect for the people who "serve at the pleasure of the president," the look that passes between Ron & Bartlet when CJ asks for proof, CJ's sense of violation as she buttons her jacket on seeing the photos. Each actor brings their A game to these scenes.
The writing was exquisite [certainly the Sorkin episodes] and the acting was stellar. A fantastic show.
Every scene. Every episode. I miss this show so much
CJ's wariness was hardly subtle.
"Yea this isn't hate mail, this is a death threat" opened my eyes a little
I love Ron. He's the consummate military/civil servant. His dedication is his signature.
I always remember the time that Ron got shot in the hand and didn't even mention it until Bartlet noticed that he was bleeding and then refused to let the President take him to the hospital, because his job was to get the President to safety.
His own health could wait until that objective has been achieved. Ron is absolutely a professional, he is good at his job and takes it very seriously.
@@JamesTobiasStewart Or When Toby is freaking out post assassination attempt and Ron calmly puts him down with "this was nobody's fault, Toby. This was the work of madmen. Anyway the Secret Service doesn't comment on procedure". He's just 100% class all the way.
God I will always love that subtle and unspoken shift in Butterfield's eyes from CJ to Bartlet going from listening to asking in a moment
It was perfectly eerie
I didn't see it the first time I watched.....I'll never miss it again, it was profound.
So well done and an amazing actor!
The way she closes her jacket when she sees the pictures tells you everything she's feeling in that moment.
The most terrifying thing about Ron Butterfield is how calm Ron Butterfield is. President's been attacked? Calm. Shot in the hand? Calm. Someone firing on the WH? Calm. CJ getting threatened? Calming looking out her window when she arrives for work. Calm.
I love how cj buttons her jacket up like it's a bulletproof vest. It's her way of protecting herself after the realization of how vulnerable she is.
That is a well know body language cue. Some thing a person will do if they feel threatened or attacked, just be aware that people also button their jackets when they feel cold.
When you realize Ron already briefed Bartlet on the pictures and they didn't want CJ to know about them knowing how they would make her feel and just wanted her to sign the approval for secret service protection.
I love the character of Ron Butterfield. He’s a stone cold professional who has obviously seen and done some dark sh1t, but underneath that armor there’s obviously someone who cares deeply for the people he protects.
My father was in the US Secret Service, from Kennedy to Bush 41. At one point he was the SAIC of the entire White House complex. Essentially, Ron Butterfield’s character. And yes, my father did see and do some wild and dark stuff in his time.
which is why they walk the dark places
Agreed
@@ericsteel173i probably met your father a time or two. I worked in the WH for Bush 41.
@@ericsteel173 Tell your dad we appreciate him and his service
The last time a member of my staff got a death threat, they missed him and hit ME.
The way that Ron never says Please to CJ, the menace he gives off by just being 'Ron' and that glance between him and the President is just pure TV majic,,,,
Michael O’Neill is such a wonderful character actor. Loved his appearances on WW.
Starting with the top aide to the Deputy Chief of Staff. To the Deputy Chief of Staff. To the Head of the Presidential Detail for the Secret Service. To the President of the United States.
The way this show managed to flawlessly blend professionalism with friendship is what made this show so damn dynamic! On one hand, security of White House staff is paramount. On the other, when someone comes after any member of the White House family, it's all hands on deck. Love it!
This might be somewhat off-topic. But I wonder what kind of White House “family atmosphere” there’s going to be with the incoming Trump 🎺 administration come January …
I cannot for the life of me imagine that these people could genuinely care for one another. They’re all so filled with righteousness, anger, vengefulness, raging ambition, us-against-the-world fanaticism.
What will the USSS agents think in their deepest of personal thoughts? They’ll be putting their life on the line for hateful people … People who will be, deliberately or through blind faith, working to actually, physically weaken the US and the post-WWII system of liberal democracy.
The Look that the President and Butterfield gave each other when C.J asked if there was anything was intense.
Exactly, they wanted to spare her knowing just how bad the situation is, Bartlett was being forceful because he didn't want to have to show her, it was only when they had no choice he begrudgingly looked at Ron and had him show her.
I can imagine the conversation they had before CJ walked in, Ron showing Bsrtlett the photos, them agreeing CJ needs protection, Bartlett saying he doesn't want her to know, Ron saying they may have to tell her, and Bartlett saying he can get her to agree and she doesn't have to know.
Considering that Ron had the President's bloody head on his hands and he's still alive, there was no hesitation when Jed insisted on the protection detail.
CJ pitches an absolute fit until Ron shows her the photos the stalker took of her and sent to her email. Then she realizes what's happening is very very REAL!
Ron Butterfield is just such a badass, man. I loved every scene he was in.
its one of the reasons i watched the clip, seen he was in it
Him and fitzwallace, and fbi agent caspar. Just three consumate professionals who are never flustered by anything.
Very quiet moves slowly. But you know he could F up someone’s day real quick lol
4:13 The subtle shift in Agent Butterfields eyes and CJ’s immediate realization is fantastic acting by Michael O’Neill and Alison Janney!
That line he wants you why doesn’t he want me ! Is cold 🥶 🥶🥶🥶
They didn't show the actual pictures, just her and the others expressions that convey how serious they are taking it.
How she stopped talking when Ron looked at the President. And the regretful nod the President gave.
@@chewy739 That was subtle look by Ron, something I missed the first time. Beautifull acting.
If you actually watch the episode you can see through the back of one of them.
Josh went into BIG BROTHER mode.
Josh: I will make jokes at CJ's expense and laugh at her. But god help anyone who even inconveniences her.
He took the bullet he knows how serious these things can be and God knows he won't let anyone else go through it
The fact that they take this seriously shows how much they value CJ
Not saying you're wrong or anything, but that last scene made me feel almost the exact opposite. Bartlet and Ron try to strong-arm her and Bartlet mocks her before they even bother to explain how severe the situation actually is.
The person threatening her life has literally been photo-scouting her home, and then emailed it to her (an email that she didn't get the chance to look at before they shoved the secret service agreement in her face), but apparently it's more important for her boss and the head of the Secret Service to make fun of her for not wanting a detail, than it is to actually explain to her WHY she needs one.
If I'm CJ in that moment, I'm feeling a lot of things. Valued by my boss and the people in that room is NOT what one of them 😂
@@noahbrown6970 This is honestly something that TWW did well. Bartlet is strong-arming her. But it's not because he thinks he can. It's because he's afraid for his family and he has every right to be considering what happened with Charlie. Ron is just doing his job and in some respect can't become an empathic persuader so much as a rational member of security. And CJ is used to hate mail but doesn't know threat assessment so she doesn't take the threat as seriously as she should.
As for Bartlet's mockery, it's literally the thing he does when he's angry. And there's a whole track record through the show pointing out how that helps and hurts and Tobey mentions he does that because of his father. And he's right to be angry. At least, in his mind. CJ isn't taking a legitimate threat seriously from the jump (it took 3 emails for it to get to him about her need for security) and the last time someone got death threats he and Josh got shot for it.
Ultimately, TWW did well writing characters with flaws that popped at bad times. Bartlet was the first to start the shouting match and to put down others when he got angry even when a cool head matters. CJ was used to taking so much flak that she had bad threat assessment (seen here and with both shootings). And many more that aren't relevant to this scene.
Look, I’m a huge, huge, HUGE fan of TWW. Even 25 years later, it’s still, to me, by far the best tv show ever ever ever.
That being said, having established my admiration for the show as well as for Aaron Sorkin, I’ve often disliked the way they wrote the interactions featuring C.J. It’s often somewhat dismissive of her. I still can’t fathom why they would write her character that way.
they kept their eye on the prize--they needed that paper signed. CJ got strong-armed because she got in the way of that. They didn't want to alarm her in order to get their job done if they could get her to just sign the paperwork. that decision is debatable. but what CJ thought was important was the sign of weakness--what they thought was important was keeping her alive.
Guiding Olive does raise a salient point about Bartlett repeating his father's way of communicating. As president, he does have to worry about being a liberal weak on crime, but as a man he doesn't have to worry about looking weak in the face of violence.
Yes, they value CJ but the Secret Service typically takes all explicit threats like this incredibly seriously.
"He wants you, why doesn't he want me?" This writing is insane. I've watched 4 of these snippets in a row and now I have to watch the entire series again.
"That's where I had dinner with my niece."
West Wing UA-cam channel: "I know! I'll finish the video off with some upbeat flute music!"
No reason it shouldn't be exactly like the show in that regard. It used to bug me, but now I look at it as Puck's "If we have offended..." speech from Midsummer.
When the Prez tells you to sign a piece of paper, you sign it!
“I don’t care. You’re part of my family. This thing is happening and I simply won’t permit it.”
Such a great line!
C.J. Gregg gets l̶e̶s̶s̶ fewer work emails in a day than I do in half an hour.
Ahh but look at the time. The last one was 602 and so we can presume its a little after 6am.
We last saw her check then after 10pm the night before.
I mean, this was 20 years ago. Emails simply weren't as common.
@@Afalstein yes, yes of course
It was 2000, not as may people were on the internet
Fewer.
Donna, seconds after promising CJ not to say anything, "Josh!". Heh.
This show is full of subtle touches by the actors in their performances. I love the way Donna brushed her hand on Josh's sholder then started pushing him. Little things like this shows the bonds between the characters.
So engaging in each storyline and presentation. Sorkin really had the pulse of USA, with proper interests addressed
Great writing and acting. If we still had anything that good, I might watch TV again.
"i've changed my mind.. i will take protection.. but i want a platoon, not one man... this freak has been to my house"
Call Seal 6!
You get Leroy Jethro Gibbs ... before he was Gibbs. No one will get past him. (Unless they're a common convenience store robber...)
😢😢😢 Simon Donovan's death stung!
4:13 _non-verbal_ communication..... my fav. its so impactful.
This show was so well written. I never watched it when it was first on. We found it via Max. Now we can’t watch it enough ❤
I love Ron. He takes no shit, is utterly brilliant and stone cold.
Notice when Butterfield sits at CJ's computer he makes sure his sidearn is in place?
When he opened that folder it got real real quick.
what I like is that he does not sit down and immediately react, there is a pause as he "actually" reads the email
the pres "around here we do what Ron says" love it
For a second, I only vaguely remembered this. Then, I realized Mark Harmon dies.
This role as the secret service agent essentially gets Harmon the role on NCIS.
Nothing can kill Mark Harmon. He’s just taking a nap.
And then cue Jeff Buckley…Sorkin sure did know how to set a mood with music
@@joemckim1183In a season 8 episode there’s flashbacks to the mid 90s where Gibbs’ boss is played by Michael O’Neill aka Ron Butterfield
@@MsJaytee1975 I never caught that! I'll have to back and watch to see it!
The way she buttons up her coat, the moment she sees pictures of herself. That feeling of vulnerability.
The music when he lays out the pictures is awesome, it adds allot to the scene and is why they do not have to show the pictures IMO.
same as the shower scene in Psycho--your mind can do more than Hitchcock could perform with special effects
@@alertgasper It's something a lot of current-day directors and writers haven't learned: The power of suggestion can sometimes be more effective than simply showing everything. A lot of what is shown so graphically nowadays wouldn't need to be graphic if the director understood the power of suggestion and letting the viewer's imagination do the rest.
@@rowanaforrest9792 true--just because someone has the tech and budget for CGI or FX, doesn't mean they can't let a little good "suggestion" go on. Let the audience get involved in a scene by imagining themselves, rather than having the material spoon-fed to them.
I am shocked more guys don't love CJ in the show. SHe is powerful and beautiful
It’s wild how you can see Josh activate !
This scene where she is shown the evidence, great writing! People who feel violated (privacy/stalked) , her actions, closing her jacket, moving her arms in a defense posture. Every victim does this, its the one thing they can control.
I love how the Secret Service guy has a mustache. Such attention to detail!
Which is weird since I’m pretty sure that facial hair is against Secret Service regulation.
3:55 "Your part of my family"
"I have some experience with this you know."
I loved Michael O'Neill as Ron Butterfield. Always so calm and in charge - was so good when the President go shot. Michael O'Neill was excellent in all the scenes he had......
He was so good in that role, for awhile I thought maybe he wasn't an actor and they had hired a real secret service guy!
When Michael O'Neill got the role, he actually sought out the Secret Service agent who got President Reagan into the car on the day he was shot and interviewed him. O'Neill only had a few lines in that episode, but he cared enough to find the one man on Earth who had actually done what he had to portray.
Enter Mark Harmon as Agent Simon Donovan. The precursor to Agent Leroy Jethro Gibbs.
CJ wasn't leaving until the answer was yes and the paper was signed, Rosslyn opened Bartlett's eyes
Nice touch Ron breasting his weapon before sitting
Same with CJ buttoning her jacket when seeing the pictures. She feels violated and even something as simple as buttoning a jacket can be psychologically soothing because it puts another layer between them and the threat.
Re-watching clips like these show me just how detail oriented they were. Ron has a gun, how would he sit? CJ is shown invasive photos, how would she react? Master class.
I get CJ's argument about looking fragile in a man's job. But when the experts say you need protection. You need protection!
Just stay away from sloped roofs. They can't be guarded
I love her face when she realizes that
Yes, in fact there is plenty of evidence, and the prez has already seen it. Hence the letter ...
This leads to one of the most heartbreaking moments in West Wing history.
Ron was always the best character on the show. Between this and the post-Rosalin shooting scene between Toby and him. Great role and an underrated actor. Dismissing Cj's concern about her comments was masterful. Yeah, That's not this. Wait! What??
Damn, but it would be amazing to have Ron Butterfield running the Secret Service protection.
“We’re talking about 1 guard, I have 12…. Before I leave the house”
Ron was perfect as head of the secret service. I wish he was in more episodes.
Agreed, he steals every scene he is in
Donna pretty much possibly saved CJ’s life. Her ego literally could’ve gotten her killed.
Loved the character of Ron Butterfield 😁 Wish he’d have had more scenes.
Perfect use of spooky music when they lay out the photos, really lends a edge 🫣
I was never a big fan of Bartlett’s politics but STILL love the show.
Because it's not about politics, it's about people and their integrity. May our government be peopled with civil servants and politicians with HALF the integrity as these.
I love this show!!!
Honestly one of the best shows ever produced!
And that dude who sent the death threat practically set her up with a date...
It often surprises me in what I generally consider high quality shows when competent, intelligent characters suddenly become dumb. House MD, The West Wing, etc. when characters won’t follow advice or instructions from people of knowledge, experience, and expertise. I get that it’s for drama, but at the same time…”c’mon CJ. Listen to the Secret Service. Sign the paper.”
CJ wasn't a character who suddenly became dumb in this moment. She was absolutely right when she said it would make her appear fragile. Very easy for her critics to say "oh look, the little girl needs protection." She didn't know how serious the threat was. President Bartlett was trying to protect her by trying not to tell her just how serious the threat was, but even he knew she wasn't going to just do what he told her to do. That's why they had the pictures ready. Had CJ walked into that office and just willingly accepted she needed protection, it actually would have lessened her character.
@@jasonkoch3182 Agree to disagree. There have been plenty of moments within the series where she expected, if not demanded, that others defer to her expertise in specific matters.
That said, her portrayal (IMHO) would have honored character continuity if she were to acknowledge Ron’s input while also stating her concerns about appearances. Instead she outright dismisses his concerns and recommendations knowing full well that he isn’t just pulling that out of his butt. That’s an inconsistency that I find annoying in shows like this.
It’s not often you see this astute level of commentary to TV clips. I missed it entirely, it was my parents’ favourite show. Going to start at season 1 episode 1…
the best show ever.
I loved the Run Butterfield and the actor.
And on that episode of Grey's Anatomy. The man's a master of his craft.
CJ????
He didn't get where he is today by getting threatening emails!
They were a little agressive about putting the guard detail on her. Though it makes sense they tried keeping the breach of privacy a bit secret.
And keep in mind, there had just been a shooting that nearly killed Bartlett and Josh because a white supremacist group hated Charlie and Zoe together. Charlie had been receiving death threats all season and no one took it too seriously until it was too late.
Ron was such a gem in this show.
If i remember right this is a long unbroken scene in the Oval that involve 3 or 4 plots going on in this episode.
You just described every episode of this show.
GOOD for Donna.
The most unbelievable part of this whole scene is that the White House press secretary arrives at work and only has 4 unread emails in her inbox
Lol, "trace route tools". So he read the email header and then ran a tracert to the email server - in about 3 seconds - and it told him all that? He knew the IP address ? Did he recognise it ? Only possible if he was behind the entire thing.
Michael O'Neill, who plays Ron, plays Judge Roy in the Leverage episode "The Bank Shot Job." In that, he's a smug, perverted, corrupt judge who lords over a small town. A stark contrast to Ron's cool and calculated demeanor.
Did anyone else notice the left hand holding under the right arm as he sat down? @1:57
Securing his "buddy" as one does when sitting, entering a vehicle, etc.
Why?
@@jamessimmons3645it is uncomfortable
@@jamessimmons3645it’s possibly where is firearm is
Everyone was great in each scene. But when Ron showed CJ the pictures, Alison sort of turns into herself. And the buttoning the jacket, showing how exposed she feels.
Butterfield was the BOMB!!
Um, "Muslim extremists don't get personal" - Salman Rushdie begs to disagree.
Did they ever find the stalker who was sending these emails
Yes. I won't spoil it but it is a powerful episode.
@@raynethackery1 I was wondering the same thing - will have to trace the episode down. :)
ah the west wing! a glance of the presidency of a more civilized age.
The look Ron gives the president as CJ is trying to get out of it, stops CJ in her tracks.
One of maybe 3 people in the federal government to overrule a president
Secret Service
Doctor
Chief of staff (?)
Makes me wonder if they had a prop gun for the actor to wear for Ron.
I know this led to Mark Harmon's character coming in as her guard. But did they end up catching who was doing it?
Yes
Michael O'Neill was great as Ron Butterfield. It always disappointed me he was so under used.
She is really unbelievable some times. Not taking a death threat seriously. Your not stupid. What's going on with you?
the video ends too soon. the last shot of her was from that morning leaving her house. there's still some meat on the bone from that scene.
Respectful but he is in charge…..
Which episode is this?
It genuinely annoys me that they portray an incredibly smart person like CJ as someone who would blithely refuse Secret Service protection, and even more so that she would push back this hard against the President's wishes. The writers did her dirty in this episode.
"You're not a woman in a man's job"-she's right
it was a political show yet many fans loved it for the PEOPLE/CHARACTERS/STORIES but not politics. It was fictional world you wanted to be part of