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correction here: converting currency is pretty pointless for games, example: 60 dollar game tag is also 60 euros in europe despite not being a 1to1 conversion
This really highlights how much value the reworks brought to the game. Many DLCs went from D/C tier to S/A tier because of this. Hopefully CA continues this trend.
Bless the people who came up with the beastmen rework🙏 It's actually hard to believe they had no bloodgrounds and just kind of... went around burning crap with no real goals.
What I like about Silence and Fury and Twisted n Twilight is that you can just buy those DLCs as cheaper alternatives to the beastmen and wood elves race packs while still gaining good skaven and lizardmen content… S+++++ tier for sure.
honestly the only downside to getting Twisted and the Twilight is not getting Drycha, but then she's got a weird list of paywalls that you need to fulfill meaning that you don't get her from owning only the original Wood Elf DLC either (last I checked you need game 1, the Realm of the Wood Elves DLC, and game 2 in order to get Drycha. single most expensive LL in the game). you also miss out on a couple of minor Wood Elf units that you probably wouldn't use anyway, their absence probably wouldn't be noted. only extra Skaven lord you get is Tretch so that's not fantastic either... better than nothing but close enough that you probably wouldn't notice the difference. for Silence and the Fury that is definitely the best entry into both the Beastmen and the Lizardmen. sure Taurox is the only Beastman LL you get but he's the most fleshed out in terms of mechanics, and on the Lizardman side Oxyotl is probably the best one in terms of mechanics and it also gets you Gor-rok and Tiktaq'to for free. really the only thing I'd say you'd be missing is the Dread Saurian
Tomb kings got me into this game. Hope they get some love in the future.
24 дні тому+4
Same here. They are pretty solid, but an expansion for Tomb Kings is what I'm looking forward the most. Vampire Counts right after, but we already know they'll get some love in the future.
So funny, Khalida is one of my favourite Lords to play with SFO, as her unique Vampire hunting mechanics and scripted battles are amazing and getting to her ultimate reward for completing all Vampire quests is also very thematic and cool.
I have a feeling that if we get Neferata, this is exactly what we will get. I would dearly love her getting such an elaborate campaign as Malakai got. Just because she wants to put a stake through her. She is such a cool character which does need a lot of love.
@@bjorn-falkoandreas9472 Really hope for a Lahmia DLC faction as part of a reworked Vampire Counts. We already have the Silver Pinnacle (Lahmia lair) and a Legendary Grudge for it.
The one I say for helman ghorst that makes him so valuable to the vampire counts is that his zombie buffs are factionwide including the garrison. He single-handedly makes crappy low tier garrisons better than if you invested in the garrison buildings. Which means you not only don't have to worry about invasions as much but even if you are getting invaded you don't need to invest heavily in defenses because it's better to just recruit a lord and raise a bunch of zombies. Another plus to all that is the ai sees zombies as weak even when buffed so it by passes the player trap of the ai avoiding heavily defended cities because they will still attack a full stack of zombies. So basically it turns the player trap into an ai trap. Even if you don't like playing as helman ghorst it is still always worth confederating him.
I know mods aren’t really Legend’s thing, but there are some really well done, lore-friendly rework/expansion mods out there for the minor factions, seemingly abandoned factions and even major factions CA just doesn’t seem like they’ll ever add. Most of these require a variety of DLCs to properly function. The ones I can’t play the game without now are: >Tribes of the North makes Norsca a proper major faction with a whole host of legendary lords and heroes and unique campaign mechanics. >OvN Lost Factions: Araby brings 1,001 Arabian Nights themed factions to that subcontinent with unique campaign mechanics and some reworks of existing mechanics borrowed from vanilla races, plus a new school of magic. >Legions of Nagash brings the big bad himself into the game, finally, with a massive army filled with variants of existing undead faction units plus his own unique roster, the Undeath school of magic and fun new campaign mechanic, confederation of the undead system and you can empower and launch his Black Pyramid to fly around the map and bring about the end of all things. > Cataph's Southern Realms (TEB) makes the Border Princes, Estalia and Tilea into proper factions instead of simply starting fodder for Skaven, Ogres and Greenskins, plus New World conquistador lords to face off against the Undead, Dark Elves and Lizardmen. (I’m not affiliated with any of these. They are just my favorites.)
@@lloydspencer4298 mechanics-wise with the cauldron, hag merchant, & generous quests I agree with you. But Skarsnik still manager to lap Grom's girth several times with his LUDICROUSLY cheap armies of Gobbo hobo's
@@sam_overthinks9931 Your correct but in a fight between the two factions Grom would eat him. Economy isnt a massive factor with Greenskin looting/sacking mechanics. (I really enjoy the Skarsnik campaign not a hater)
Also the Malus side of things for WH3 specifically is kinda cracked, namely because of the reworked ranged damage making Bloodwrack Medusae pretty nuts. They're not PWM, but I'd absolutely put them above Eshin Triads and Warp Grinders combined, and the shrine's pretty good, too. Scourgerunners are the only truly awful part of the DLC but they're still fine for what they are. I think Legend could've bumped the DLC up at least a tier Also ninja rat, buy the ninja rat
Ikit Claw DLC is even more crucial and if your gonna get just one then I'd pick Ikit Claw over clan Eshin any day. Without either, base game Skavens kinda suck...
Steam Halloween sale just started and was literally looking through all the DLCs trying to figure out what's worth getting, so this is perfectly timed. Thank you!
The reason why I think you are undervaluing Snikch is that he transforms his faction so much that you play with units you wouldn't otherwise use. Faction-wide. Whenever I choose him -which I do a lot- is because I want to play with the ninja rats. Where you can only use the Mistwalkers with Eltharion, you can use the bog-standard night runners because he gives them armor-piercing faction-wide. They suddenly can take down dinosaurs. Even without his campaign mechanic his faction is brilliant.
I agree, I just love how he promotes using an entirely different play style than the usual Skaven stuff. Being a master at ambushing with amazing skirmish infantry and a map presence that’s all over the place is just so much fun
Even though it's in Australia Dollary-doos, I would think the ratio of the prices could be the same regardless of currency right? So that's still fair. The most expensive stuff would still be the most expensive
Yes, it's true that the most expensive DLC is still the most expensive, but it's not true that it is a direct comparison between different currencies as Legend stated it was, there is variation beyond just the exchange rate. So for example, Legend says Australian dollars price is $418 which is the equivalent to £210 in the UK going on the exchange rate. However, the price of all the DLC in the UK is actually £262, meaning it is actually a fair bit more expensive here than it is in Australia in real terms
Ogre Kingdom DLC was fun. Good Tech. Nice Units. Build your own Cities and choose your own Garrison due to low upkeep. No attrition and always nice replenishment due to your camps. They are realy powerful.
Great video! I personally very much enjoyed Helman Ghorst campaign. I managed to get him to a stage where he was almost impervious to missile fire, and the zombies, even those attached to other armies and garrisons were so damn tough, they used to carry the battle to a win almost every time.
Norsca were pretty great in game 1 because all the factions except the Wood Elves were limited in terms of where they could settle so only getting Norsca, major capitals, and port settlements wasn't too bad. in game 2 other factions were no longer limited so Norsca was now held back by their limitations, even with there now being a lot more coastline and ports, but those ports were just minor outposts and the larger map also required more armies and Norsca simply couldn't get the funds needed to sustain that. from here the simple power level of other armies just advanced without them. the general attitude towards them definitely wasn't helped by the fact that they were held back until the Tomb King's released, because despite being the pre-order DLC they simply hadn't been made with game 2 in mind. a bunch of their hunts were broken too and once one hunt breaks you're basically locked out of that mechanic for the rest of the game. now, in game 3, they can finally settle anywhere properly and their economy is a little better as a result (though I'd say that the WoC Dark Fortresses and outposts is a perfect example of how the old limited options for occupying could've been done well), but they've been given nothing else, hunts are even more broken, their general power level hasn't been given anything to help them to catch up, and there's still no sign of that Norsca rework that CA promised 2 years ago.
Great video and congrats on the sponsorship! I wish I had this tier list when buying all the DLCs over the last 2 years rather than guess what I needed based on the races I wanted to play and what was on sale (only paid full price for the last one). Neat to understand what I’ve bought in retrospect though!
Glad to see Twisted & the Twilight in S-tier - when I recommend people get exactly one DLC, I recommend that one, as it's two good campaigns with a ton of flavor and fun, and many people in reality don't have time in their lives for more than two full Total War campaigns before moving on to another game.
One thing that's important to consider with the race packs vs the lord packs, when you don't own the race packs but do own the lord packs, you still get access to the race. For example, I own neither the original beastmen or wood elf DLC, but by just buying the taurox + sisters of twilight DLC i got ALL the units of both rosters. Literally the only thing you get with the original are the original 3 lords and the warhammer 1 special campaigns. So actually i think it's a terrible idea to buy the race packs IF that race also has lord packs, assuming you own neither.
there are some cases where buying the original race pack can be worth it, but admittedly your points do show why it's odd for WoC to be placed at the top of the tier list (cheap or not, the only things you're getting from that DLC are the 3 LLs. all the units in it were already included with Be'lakor as FLC. if you just want to play WoC the Champions of Chaos is best for their roster and even Shadows of Change and Thrones of Decay contribute more units than the original WoC DLC) Call of the Beastmen is another case where it's better to just buy Taurox, but at least their ease of confederating each other means that the other 3 LLs can add more value than you'd otherwise get from owning the original DLC. Realm of the Wood Elves is another matter though. there's 1 unit and 1 hero that are both exclusive to the race pack, and Drycha has a bit of a mess of paywalls where (last I checked) she requires game 1, the Realm of the Wood Elves DLC, and game 2 in order to be unlocked for game 3. single most expensive LL in the game. there's also Orion, where if you have both him and Ariel in the same army (requiring both Realm of the Wood Elves and Twisted and the Twilight) Orion gets an extra buff.
@@Eclipsed_Embers True, it's not like you get nothing per say, but it's hard to say that you get what you're paying for assuming you have the lord packs. You get the 3 mechanically less interesting lords and no new units for almost $20. Honestly the most valuable thing from the realm of wood elves and call of beastmen from that perspective would be the warhammer 1 campaigns tbh, but i can't even remember if those are worth it or not
@@loafer144 ok, now in terms of mechanical interest I'd say that the WoC Race Pack LLs actually surpass the CoC Lord Pack LLs, even if only due to having access to bits and pieces of all 4 gods (because ultimately those extra bits of mechanics that the CoC have is just simplified (and often less powerful/interesting) versions of the monogod mechanics) but none of them really top Be'lakor for mechanics. Be'lakor already has the benefit of having access to all 4, on top of also having access to the Exalted Daemon units, and being able to have as many gifted units as he wants. and that's before even getting to his unique Unholy Manifestations, and the only mechanical thing he really loses out on compared to Archaon is a 4th Undivided Gift slot and the Eye of the Gods (which is frankly the most meh part of the whole WoC rework). in addition to probably being the most interesting WoC faction (Archaon is his only real competition there) frankly I'd say he's a better Daemons of Chaos faction than Daniel/Yuri is. even without the CoC Be'lakor is the reason that the original WoC DLC is pretty bad for value, and ultimately the CoC DLC benefits Be'lakor more than it benefits any of the new LLs it adds simply because Be'lakor has access to all 4 parts of it. as for those mini-campaigns back in Warhammer 1, they were kinda fun, I wish CA kept on doing them, but the campaigns themselves are held back rather significantly by the fact that game 1 Beastmen and game 1 Wood Elves just kinda sucked, but I do feel that they were more fun in those mini-campaigns than they were in the main one (the fact that completing those campaigns unlocked Boris and The Red Duke for custom battles, similar to how completing the main campaign as WoC unlocked Sarthorael, was nice too)
My favorite faction was always chaos dwarfs (i paint them and play them on the tabletop too) and CA deliveted big time with them I love how they turned out how they mixed old and new designs and units. First I was disappointed with the gibberish language but later I learned to like it. They have so much mechanic that its almost too much. From mid game your turns take forever if you want to manage everything i love it! 😅 (I think the AI cannot play them properly its too much for it) TLDR: if you like chorfs half as much as I am its S tier for you!
I literally installed vanilla warhammer 3 yesterday after being a fan of your content for ages. After finishing the prologue and seeing all the greyed out factions and characters in immortal empires I wretched a little. This video came at the perfect time. (Seriously though, what kind of game doesnt let you play as the default human characters (empire) without dlc?)
Your talking about the company/game that required you to own all of the 3 Warhammer games to even have access to Immortal Empires campaign. After all of this time, now the requirement has been removed I think. The fanbase thats still left and enjoys the game loves consuming anything the studio produces so you will get no sympathy from them for this view.
They were the default in Warhammer 1. Cathay or Kislev were the default humans of 3, and the high elves were the closest thing to a bog-standard, default race in 2.
163,37 in Euro all Dlcs, not cheap but i bought every dlc when it came out sometimes even before that(i have all without the blood dlcs because it has no game change). But i must say for what you get for how long you can play it it is a fair price.
@@AlexNeverbd in my experience on WH2 the main unlockers (Mega Faction Unlocker and Mixu's Unlocker) only make minor and modded factions available related to the DLC's you have. It doesn't seem to bypass the paywall for the DLC's;I'm unaware how it works in WH3 tho.
Bought bundle with all main games for 71% off through a third-party site. CA DLC practices can throw themselves in the ocean, but not as painful by buying a key you can use on Steam. Since many of the DLCs are also for older games, they also had quite hefty discounts.
Putting him in Misty Mountain or Grom Peak might make more sense. Also, Grom needs his starting settlement fixed to get back the two building slots he lost going from game two to game three.
Well to be fair, grom is one of those characters that doesn't need settlements. He gets extreme value out of low tier armies, and has huge boost for sacking and looting. You can really roam wherever you want without ever settling anything. Sack as you go along and replace goblin losses globally. You'll have more money than you'd ever get by trying to develop your own territory that way. Just start painting the map with additional armies once you have good recruiting from your main settlement.
I think you are supposed to head straight for the donut. But yes I didn't do that in my last campaign, but had no problem with the lesser climate. Grom is just that good
Mama Stanky feels like a rework of Grom the Paunch as much as von Draken felt like a rework of Ikit Claw. I really liked how powerful her Buff/Debuff mechanic got, and how it applied to specific units in either army. It was fun building tailored hexes etc for what I'm facing or fielding.
I agree with the vast majority of this. I'd only have minor tweaks based on my personal preferences compared to yours - I'd swap Malakai and Elspeth, for example. I would love a 'reworks/upgrades for the forgotten races' DLC cycle where we get units, legendary lords/heroes and potentially faction reworks for Norsca, Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast. As soon as the Ogres are buffed, I think those three are in the biggest need of some love.
Actually started a Beastieboys campaign the other day and honestly had flashbacks to the first days of Taurox, they feel actually amazing but still a good challenge. I remember day one beastmen and the absolute "Why did i buy this" feeling when i fought the first battle, heres hoping the lower ranked DLCs get some love to help em out.
Ogres were my first campaign in Warhammer 3. Their brute force and comedic campaign (I guess) made them very fun to play with. even now after I bough all the DLC, they remain one of my favorite. I appreciate the variety of factions, even the strange ones like the changeling. I recently played him vs 2 of my firends, really fun campaign.
Nuln is absolutely S tier for my numerous Empire bros, same level as Malakai. Grim & Grave is also higher than C imho, lots of stuff for the popular Vempire factions.
Immortal empires isn't tied to a dlc or flc it would have been available regardless, you can't credit Champions of Chaos with anything related to that just because they dropped at a similar time.
21:16 something you missed for the dark elf side of the dlc is the Supreme Sorceress lord type is part of that dlc. Also both sides have a lot of RoR locked behind them.
Queen and the crone is also important for dark elf players as it also give you the supreme sorceress lord type so you can have caster lords, bloodwreck medusae. It adds some other stuff those are the most important one added with queen and the crone.
@@alexscholz3438 were they? could have mis-remembered that one as I have had all the dlc for a while but it is where I recall them getting the caster lords.
Cheers Legend. I'm gonna be bigheaded and assume this was for my benefit as commented that I needed your TW wisdom before committing to Warhammer 3 purchase! Love your content!
I would rate Call of the beastmen lower, purely because you can buy Silence and Fury for half that price and get most of the content plus extras. The main limitation is that you can only have Taurox as your LL.
20:30 You also should mention the handmaiden, S tier agents. If imperial archers weren't so useful in the first 10 turns of a campaign the Hunter and the Beast should be E tier, considering that Nakai and Markus don't grant global bonus to their faction. Ogres are fun with a couple of mods (loreful neutral ogres, moving camps, extra lore of magics for butchers and balanced contracts)
A point to note is that you can’t complete the Vampire Coast main quest on Mortal Empires - wish I knew that before playing it! Our tastes seem to differ quite a lot, I like Dark Elves most and played Aranessa as the Vampire Coast, never played Skaven. I got all the High and Dark elves dlc, agree that some of them are play to win like Legend mentioned. Managed to complete the mini campaigns for Arkhan the Black and Markus Wulfhart, which I’m quite happy about!
The other thing with thrones of decay is that it is the newest DLC so of course it'll be more expensive. After Ogres, Khorne and Orks and whatever comes after, they'll probably drop the price and it'll be more worth it
Legend when I played Daughters of the Forest I hated the starting position, which was my main complaint, but I loved playing on The Old World map, I recommend you try it at least once
Nice tier list @LegendofTotalWar ! I'm disappointed by how immortal empires placed certain lord's starting locations in weird/awkward places. Maybe for TWW4 they'll adjust the scale of the map entirely. By placing more provinces into larger versions of the existing continents; they could allow for more factions to exist in their cannon locations. Putting the fatty greenskin in the middle of Britannia feels strange.
So I think one major thing that was not addressed is the level of discount offered in steam sales. Quite relevant as there is one happening right now until November 5th. Most DLCs get 50% off except for the more recent ones. Chaos Dwarfs are only 33% off for example, and Thrones of Decay are 20% off. So really if you compare Thrones of Decay to the double lord WH2 DLCs, you're paying the same amount for half the lords. Of course this will change as new DLCs get released but I think it should definitely have been mentioned.
in my consideration of DLC i consider the rework that was done alongside the DLC to be a part of it because I have been stuck next to Paradox for too long. but with this in mind, thrones of decay is an S tier rework, both the nurgle and empire rework were amazing all empire legendary lords now have unique mechanics. If such a thing were to come for the vampire coast and tomb kings it would be amazing because as you said their campaigns are far too similar.
If they would made a dlc thats adds unique faction mechanics to base game lords and dlc factions that are outadet/dont have one and only this or few units/basic lords extra. So no legendary lords just mechanic, I would put it in S+ tier and buy straight away if reasonably priced.
I really wish Norsca had another lord or two. Starting in Norsca feels the same for both lords. I want that female Skeggi lord to bring some variation in starting locations.
*Edit: The Halloween sale of SEGA is currently active on Steam, so if you want to get a DLC, get it now. they range from 20 to 50 % off (Of course the Blood DLC is the only that didn't get a discount, go figure)* How I'd fix Sartosa. 1. Create a new FLC Legendary lord for the vampire coast dlc, similar to Drycha for the wood elves. To Replace Aranessa 2. Add a new Faction along the lines of Pirates/Vagabonds/Bandits With it's own legendary lords 3. Add Aranessa to this new Faction as a "bonus" legendary lord aside from what a DLC would usually have Changing her mechanics as needed
For the Twisted and the Twilight DLC, you've missed the fact that it is the only TW:W2 DLC which comes with Legendary Heroes: Ghoritch for Skaven and Ariel for Wood Elves.
CA should think about going back to expansions style content like some companies like Firaxis or even Paradox still do. To be fair they are all hybrids too at this point releasing both what they call DLC and Expansions but imo having say 3 or 4 expansions that included all of the above content instead of so many piecemeal DLCs feels better as a customer.
Hi legends I've been alot of your Warhammer vids. And made me kinda interested in playing warhammer. Is there any dlc you recommend for a new player to purchase first?
The game really needs "race packs" now, to combine all the various DLC & base game content for individual races. Someone starting with W3 and wanting to play skaven, in order to get all the units/characters, needs to buy W2 and Ikit, Throt, Sniktch in separate DLC. Even getting something as basic as empire archers, needs the Markus DLC. It's still a huge barrier to entry for people, which is a shame. Probably too late now and it would be confusing as those with only W3 would want race packs, and those with W1 and/or W2 might be better off with the old DLC model.
27:25 thats an aus store thing, for the UKL steam store the WH1 lord packs are £6.99 and the WH2 ones are £7.99 (tho at the time of writing there is a big sale on atm 50% off for everything champions of chaos and earlier with chaos dwarves and shadows of change being 33% and thrones of decay being 20% off)
Thanks to MANSCAPED for sponsoring today's video! Get The Chairman™ Pro for 20% OFF + Free International Shipping with my link manscaped.com/legendoftotalwar
correction here: converting currency is pretty pointless for games, example: 60 dollar game tag is also 60 euros in europe despite not being a 1to1 conversion
AN HOUR?!
@@maxmustermann-zx9yq Yeah.... But that 60usd game isnt going to be 60russian peanuts now is it?
@@brentonherbert7775 depends, I heard Latin America has really bad pricing compared to what their currency is currently worth
Skarsnik was a great Warhammer 1 DLC. As a new player, it offered a really high challenge once I actually learnt the game
I want to see a cheese tier list
Skaven would easily dominate that one.
@@Hugh33337 I was thinking more along the lines of Brie, Cheddar etc. Skaven would still manage to find it's way in S though :D
@@Steve-nk6vl I could see the Skaven concocting some ridiculous plot to take over the Empire by flooding the markets with warpstone laced Wensleydale
Yeah pls and rate everything based and related to Skaven lile the one man doomstack malus
Parmesan easy S-tier
This really highlights how much value the reworks brought to the game. Many DLCs went from D/C tier to S/A tier because of this. Hopefully CA continues this trend.
Bless the people who came up with the beastmen rework🙏
It's actually hard to believe they had no bloodgrounds and just kind of... went around burning crap with no real goals.
@@KimbieChaos in WH1 was super iffy
@@marcusflutist1230you mean Chosen of Chaos with 1 or 2 Hellcannon?
What I like about Silence and Fury and Twisted n Twilight is that you can just buy those DLCs as cheaper alternatives to the beastmen and wood elves race packs while still gaining good skaven and lizardmen content… S+++++ tier for sure.
honestly the only downside to getting Twisted and the Twilight is not getting Drycha, but then she's got a weird list of paywalls that you need to fulfill meaning that you don't get her from owning only the original Wood Elf DLC either (last I checked you need game 1, the Realm of the Wood Elves DLC, and game 2 in order to get Drycha. single most expensive LL in the game). you also miss out on a couple of minor Wood Elf units that you probably wouldn't use anyway, their absence probably wouldn't be noted.
only extra Skaven lord you get is Tretch so that's not fantastic either... better than nothing but close enough that you probably wouldn't notice the difference.
for Silence and the Fury that is definitely the best entry into both the Beastmen and the Lizardmen. sure Taurox is the only Beastman LL you get but he's the most fleshed out in terms of mechanics, and on the Lizardman side Oxyotl is probably the best one in terms of mechanics and it also gets you Gor-rok and Tiktaq'to for free. really the only thing I'd say you'd be missing is the Dread Saurian
Another tier list? We eating good lads
Meat's back on the menu boys!
We gooding eat barrowwights&
TIER LIST BACK ON THE MENU BOYS!
"This tier list is not for eating!"
"What about the D and C tier, they don't need those"
I love tier lists! Tier lists about everything!
Tomb kings got me into this game. Hope they get some love in the future.
Same here. They are pretty solid, but an expansion for Tomb Kings is what I'm looking forward the most. Vampire Counts right after, but we already know they'll get some love in the future.
Not same, but agreed on the second half. Having only one lord option while Old World has Liche Lords is sad.
Relatable,I'm still playing WH2 and mainly as them with dozens of mods;when I buy WH3 I will certainly use the Tomb Kings Extended(Expanded?)mod!
Yellow skill added to all lords: Fortified Calcium
We need Nagash dlc for undead love. Vmp counts, coast, and tomb kings need to feast.
Your content is fantastic dude, a true pillar of the community. Just a little thanks towards the next DLC which comes out.
So funny, Khalida is one of my favourite Lords to play with SFO, as her unique Vampire hunting mechanics and scripted battles are amazing and getting to her ultimate reward for completing all Vampire quests is also very thematic and cool.
I have a feeling that if we get Neferata, this is exactly what we will get. I would dearly love her getting such an elaborate campaign as Malakai got. Just because she wants to put a stake through her. She is such a cool character which does need a lot of love.
I need to play this damn SFO.
To do this I need a modding tech support for dumies because all my mod packs crash after end turn or at launch.
@@bjorn-falkoandreas9472 Really hope for a Lahmia DLC faction as part of a reworked Vampire Counts. We already have the Silver Pinnacle (Lahmia lair) and a Legendary Grudge for it.
The one I say for helman ghorst that makes him so valuable to the vampire counts is that his zombie buffs are factionwide including the garrison. He single-handedly makes crappy low tier garrisons better than if you invested in the garrison buildings. Which means you not only don't have to worry about invasions as much but even if you are getting invaded you don't need to invest heavily in defenses because it's better to just recruit a lord and raise a bunch of zombies. Another plus to all that is the ai sees zombies as weak even when buffed so it by passes the player trap of the ai avoiding heavily defended cities because they will still attack a full stack of zombies. So basically it turns the player trap into an ai trap. Even if you don't like playing as helman ghorst it is still always worth confederating him.
I know mods aren’t really Legend’s thing, but there are some really well done, lore-friendly rework/expansion mods out there for the minor factions, seemingly abandoned factions and even major factions CA just doesn’t seem like they’ll ever add. Most of these require a variety of DLCs to properly function. The ones I can’t play the game without now are:
>Tribes of the North makes Norsca a proper major faction with a whole host of legendary lords and heroes and unique campaign mechanics.
>OvN Lost Factions: Araby brings 1,001 Arabian Nights themed factions to that subcontinent with unique campaign mechanics and some reworks of existing mechanics borrowed from vanilla races, plus a new school of magic.
>Legions of Nagash brings the big bad himself into the game, finally, with a massive army filled with variants of existing undead faction units plus his own unique roster, the Undeath school of magic and fun new campaign mechanic, confederation of the undead system and you can empower and launch his Black Pyramid to fly around the map and bring about the end of all things.
> Cataph's Southern Realms (TEB) makes the Border Princes, Estalia and Tilea into proper factions instead of simply starting fodder for Skaven, Ogres and Greenskins, plus New World conquistador lords to face off against the Undead, Dark Elves and Lizardmen.
(I’m not affiliated with any of these. They are just my favorites.)
My fat belly thinks that the warden & the paunch deserve S tier
Ogres my lard
@@jjgunes8938 Lol
He's also the strongest LL for the Greenskins
@@lloydspencer4298 mechanics-wise with the cauldron, hag merchant, & generous quests I agree with you.
But Skarsnik still manager to lap Grom's girth several times with his LUDICROUSLY cheap armies of Gobbo hobo's
@@sam_overthinks9931 Your correct but in a fight between the two factions Grom would eat him. Economy isnt a massive factor with Greenskin looting/sacking mechanics. (I really enjoy the Skarsnik campaign not a hater)
The Snikch DLC is a must have for anyone who plays skaven for the poisoned wind mortars alone. The clan Eshin stuff was just a bonus...
Also the Malus side of things for WH3 specifically is kinda cracked, namely because of the reworked ranged damage making Bloodwrack Medusae pretty nuts. They're not PWM, but I'd absolutely put them above Eshin Triads and Warp Grinders combined, and the shrine's pretty good, too. Scourgerunners are the only truly awful part of the DLC but they're still fine for what they are. I think Legend could've bumped the DLC up at least a tier
Also ninja rat, buy the ninja rat
Ikit Claw DLC is even more crucial and if your gonna get just one then I'd pick Ikit Claw over clan Eshin any day. Without either, base game Skavens kinda suck...
Vamp coast are such a cool race, I hope they get a mini rework for their pirate coves and some of the units.
Steam Halloween sale just started and was literally looking through all the DLCs trying to figure out what's worth getting, so this is perfectly timed. Thank you!
I've been playing warhammer 3 about a year and slowly picking up DLC on sales. This is the video that I've been waiting for. Thanks Legend!
Chaos dwarfs is my personal favourite
Funny thing
If you flip this list upside down you get a pretty good multiplayer tier list
The reason why I think you are undervaluing Snikch is that he transforms his faction so much that you play with units you wouldn't otherwise use. Faction-wide. Whenever I choose him -which I do a lot- is because I want to play with the ninja rats. Where you can only use the Mistwalkers with Eltharion, you can use the bog-standard night runners because he gives them armor-piercing faction-wide. They suddenly can take down dinosaurs. Even without his campaign mechanic his faction is brilliant.
I agree, I just love how he promotes using an entirely different play style than the usual Skaven stuff. Being a master at ambushing with amazing skirmish infantry and a map presence that’s all over the place is just so much fun
Even though it's in Australia Dollary-doos, I would think the ratio of the prices could be the same regardless of currency right? So that's still fair. The most expensive stuff would still be the most expensive
Yes, it's true that the most expensive DLC is still the most expensive, but it's not true that it is a direct comparison between different currencies as Legend stated it was, there is variation beyond just the exchange rate. So for example, Legend says Australian dollars price is $418 which is the equivalent to £210 in the UK going on the exchange rate. However, the price of all the DLC in the UK is actually £262, meaning it is actually a fair bit more expensive here than it is in Australia in real terms
I think some of that is tax. VAT in the UK is 20%, GST in Australia is 10%.
I need Khorne dlc and i need it NOW.
Ogre Kingdom DLC was fun. Good Tech. Nice Units. Build your own Cities and choose your own Garrison due to low upkeep. No attrition and always nice replenishment due to your camps. They are realy powerful.
Great video!
I personally very much enjoyed Helman Ghorst campaign.
I managed to get him to a stage where he was almost impervious to missile fire, and the zombies, even those attached to other armies and garrisons were so damn tough, they used to carry the battle to a win almost every time.
Norsca wasn't trash for Warhammer 1's standards. I even remember you say that you enjoyed their campaign back then.
Norsca was the most powerful race in WH1, Legend said so himself at the time.
@@Lones555 And it was actually the first race that started to present some form of depth in its campaign mechanics.
Norsca were pretty great in game 1 because all the factions except the Wood Elves were limited in terms of where they could settle so only getting Norsca, major capitals, and port settlements wasn't too bad.
in game 2 other factions were no longer limited so Norsca was now held back by their limitations, even with there now being a lot more coastline and ports, but those ports were just minor outposts and the larger map also required more armies and Norsca simply couldn't get the funds needed to sustain that. from here the simple power level of other armies just advanced without them. the general attitude towards them definitely wasn't helped by the fact that they were held back until the Tomb King's released, because despite being the pre-order DLC they simply hadn't been made with game 2 in mind. a bunch of their hunts were broken too and once one hunt breaks you're basically locked out of that mechanic for the rest of the game.
now, in game 3, they can finally settle anywhere properly and their economy is a little better as a result (though I'd say that the WoC Dark Fortresses and outposts is a perfect example of how the old limited options for occupying could've been done well), but they've been given nothing else, hunts are even more broken, their general power level hasn't been given anything to help them to catch up, and there's still no sign of that Norsca rework that CA promised 2 years ago.
"Back then" being the key words here.
@@PingachuWarhamIn the video Legend said it was trash back then as well.
Great video and congrats on the sponsorship! I wish I had this tier list when buying all the DLCs over the last 2 years rather than guess what I needed based on the races I wanted to play and what was on sale (only paid full price for the last one). Neat to understand what I’ve bought in retrospect though!
Glad to see Twisted & the Twilight in S-tier - when I recommend people get exactly one DLC, I recommend that one, as it's two good campaigns with a ton of flavor and fun, and many people in reality don't have time in their lives for more than two full Total War campaigns before moving on to another game.
One thing that's important to consider with the race packs vs the lord packs, when you don't own the race packs but do own the lord packs, you still get access to the race.
For example, I own neither the original beastmen or wood elf DLC, but by just buying the taurox + sisters of twilight DLC i got ALL the units of both rosters. Literally the only thing you get with the original are the original 3 lords and the warhammer 1 special campaigns.
So actually i think it's a terrible idea to buy the race packs IF that race also has lord packs, assuming you own neither.
there are some cases where buying the original race pack can be worth it, but admittedly your points do show why it's odd for WoC to be placed at the top of the tier list (cheap or not, the only things you're getting from that DLC are the 3 LLs. all the units in it were already included with Be'lakor as FLC. if you just want to play WoC the Champions of Chaos is best for their roster and even Shadows of Change and Thrones of Decay contribute more units than the original WoC DLC)
Call of the Beastmen is another case where it's better to just buy Taurox, but at least their ease of confederating each other means that the other 3 LLs can add more value than you'd otherwise get from owning the original DLC.
Realm of the Wood Elves is another matter though. there's 1 unit and 1 hero that are both exclusive to the race pack, and Drycha has a bit of a mess of paywalls where (last I checked) she requires game 1, the Realm of the Wood Elves DLC, and game 2 in order to be unlocked for game 3. single most expensive LL in the game. there's also Orion, where if you have both him and Ariel in the same army (requiring both Realm of the Wood Elves and Twisted and the Twilight) Orion gets an extra buff.
@@Eclipsed_Embers True, it's not like you get nothing per say, but it's hard to say that you get what you're paying for assuming you have the lord packs. You get the 3 mechanically less interesting lords and no new units for almost $20.
Honestly the most valuable thing from the realm of wood elves and call of beastmen from that perspective would be the warhammer 1 campaigns tbh, but i can't even remember if those are worth it or not
@@loafer144 ok, now in terms of mechanical interest I'd say that the WoC Race Pack LLs actually surpass the CoC Lord Pack LLs, even if only due to having access to bits and pieces of all 4 gods (because ultimately those extra bits of mechanics that the CoC have is just simplified (and often less powerful/interesting) versions of the monogod mechanics)
but none of them really top Be'lakor for mechanics. Be'lakor already has the benefit of having access to all 4, on top of also having access to the Exalted Daemon units, and being able to have as many gifted units as he wants. and that's before even getting to his unique Unholy Manifestations, and the only mechanical thing he really loses out on compared to Archaon is a 4th Undivided Gift slot and the Eye of the Gods (which is frankly the most meh part of the whole WoC rework). in addition to probably being the most interesting WoC faction (Archaon is his only real competition there) frankly I'd say he's a better Daemons of Chaos faction than Daniel/Yuri is. even without the CoC Be'lakor is the reason that the original WoC DLC is pretty bad for value, and ultimately the CoC DLC benefits Be'lakor more than it benefits any of the new LLs it adds simply because Be'lakor has access to all 4 parts of it.
as for those mini-campaigns back in Warhammer 1, they were kinda fun, I wish CA kept on doing them, but the campaigns themselves are held back rather significantly by the fact that game 1 Beastmen and game 1 Wood Elves just kinda sucked, but I do feel that they were more fun in those mini-campaigns than they were in the main one (the fact that completing those campaigns unlocked Boris and The Red Duke for custom battles, similar to how completing the main campaign as WoC unlocked Sarthorael, was nice too)
My favorite faction was always chaos dwarfs
(i paint them and play them on the tabletop too)
and CA deliveted big time with them
I love how they turned out how they mixed old and new designs and units.
First I was disappointed with the gibberish language but later I learned to like it.
They have so much mechanic that its almost too much. From mid game your turns take forever if you want to manage everything
i love it! 😅
(I think the AI cannot play them properly its too much for it)
TLDR: if you like chorfs half as much as I am its S tier for you!
A tip if you want to use it: there is a section in the steamdb showing actual price in all other currencies
elspeth can be considered s tier if you include empire rework. Balth and Karl campaigns feel so much better now.
Almost agree 100% but since I like Markus masochist mechanics and Yuan Bo I will put them on B tier
I literally installed vanilla warhammer 3 yesterday after being a fan of your content for ages. After finishing the prologue and seeing all the greyed out factions and characters in immortal empires I wretched a little. This video came at the perfect time. (Seriously though, what kind of game doesnt let you play as the default human characters (empire) without dlc?)
Your talking about the company/game that required you to own all of the 3 Warhammer games to even have access to Immortal Empires campaign. After all of this time, now the requirement has been removed I think. The fanbase thats still left and enjoys the game loves consuming anything the studio produces so you will get no sympathy from them for this view.
They were the default in Warhammer 1. Cathay or Kislev were the default humans of 3, and the high elves were the closest thing to a bog-standard, default race in 2.
Empire is not default, that's Kislev and Cathay.
It will never not be hilarious that the same game that had the realm of Khorne with literal fountains of blood has a blood DLC
163,37 in Euro all Dlcs, not cheap but i bought every dlc when it came out sometimes even before that(i have all without the blood dlcs because it has no game change). But i must say for what you get for how long you can play it it is a fair price.
you can download an unlocker and get all dlc for free
@@AlexNeverbd No you can not. But if it is true i would tell it sega or C.A. . Stop with such a shit.
@@AlexNeverbd in my experience on WH2 the main unlockers (Mega Faction Unlocker and Mixu's Unlocker) only make minor and modded factions available related to the DLC's you have.
It doesn't seem to bypass the paywall for the DLC's;I'm unaware how it works in WH3 tho.
Bought bundle with all main games for 71% off through a third-party site. CA DLC practices can throw themselves in the ocean, but not as painful by buying a key you can use on Steam. Since many of the DLCs are also for older games, they also had quite hefty discounts.
@@pierrelindgren5727 That is fine. but have you read what mr. AlexNeverbd wrote it is criminal.
i realy dont understand why Grom got a zone wher EVERY settelemnt next to him has unsutible climate , that one thing make me dislike his campain
Putting him in Misty Mountain or Grom Peak might make more sense. Also, Grom needs his starting settlement fixed to get back the two building slots he lost going from game two to game three.
I feel like putting him in from peak may crowd things with ahzag and Skarsnik (even though he would go southward) but maybe not
Well to be fair, grom is one of those characters that doesn't need settlements. He gets extreme value out of low tier armies, and has huge boost for sacking and looting. You can really roam wherever you want without ever settling anything. Sack as you go along and replace goblin losses globally. You'll have more money than you'd ever get by trying to develop your own territory that way.
Just start painting the map with additional armies once you have good recruiting from your main settlement.
I think you are supposed to head straight for the donut. But yes I didn't do that in my last campaign, but had no problem with the lesser climate. Grom is just that good
Pretty good timing since the game is on a Halloween sale.
They just so happen to have put all of the DLC on sale today, as well.
Most of the time they're cheaper on Instant Gaming as Legend said multiple times in the past.
Nice timing then!
@@k.e.v.2011 sadly I can't use instant gaming is there an alternative version in southeast asia?
Mama Stanky feels like a rework of Grom the Paunch as much as von Draken felt like a rework of Ikit Claw. I really liked how powerful her Buff/Debuff mechanic got, and how it applied to specific units in either army. It was fun building tailored hexes etc for what I'm facing or fielding.
I agree with the vast majority of this. I'd only have minor tweaks based on my personal preferences compared to yours - I'd swap Malakai and Elspeth, for example.
I would love a 'reworks/upgrades for the forgotten races' DLC cycle where we get units, legendary lords/heroes and potentially faction reworks for Norsca, Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast. As soon as the Ogres are buffed, I think those three are in the biggest need of some love.
Actually started a Beastieboys campaign the other day and honestly had flashbacks to the first days of Taurox, they feel actually amazing but still a good challenge. I remember day one beastmen and the absolute "Why did i buy this" feeling when i fought the first battle, heres hoping the lower ranked DLCs get some love to help em out.
“Nakai is bringing this up” never thought I’d hear those words before warhammer 3
this was honestly a great video! it has been a while since i bought a DLC and it has been in my mind for a while now. this helps alot thx!
Ogres were my first campaign in Warhammer 3. Their brute force and comedic campaign (I guess) made them very fun to play with. even now after I bough all the DLC, they remain one of my favorite. I appreciate the variety of factions, even the strange ones like the changeling. I recently played him vs 2 of my firends, really fun campaign.
Yey tier list our favorite format ;]
Nuln is absolutely S tier for my numerous Empire bros, same level as Malakai.
Grim & Grave is also higher than C imho, lots of stuff for the popular Vempire factions.
Champions of Chaos gave us pretty substantial FLC, tbh. It came with Belakor on one hand and the whole Immortal Empires Update on the other side.
Immortal empires isn't tied to a dlc or flc it would have been available regardless, you can't credit Champions of Chaos with anything related to that just because they dropped at a similar time.
We love tier lists 'round here
Another fine episode of Aussieman reviews!
21:16 something you missed for the dark elf side of the dlc is the Supreme Sorceress lord type is part of that dlc. Also both sides have a lot of RoR locked behind them.
Tier list videos are the goat
I love the Sisters. For the cost of a leader pack you get the Wood Elves, too. Best deal going.
Queen and the crone is also important for dark elf players as it also give you the supreme sorceress lord type so you can have caster lords, bloodwreck medusae. It adds some other stuff those are the most important one added with queen and the crone.
Bloodwracks are from Shadow and the Blade, Queen and the Crone gets Doomfires, Sisters, and Kharibdyss.
@@alexscholz3438 were they? could have mis-remembered that one as I have had all the dlc for a while but it is where I recall them getting the caster lords.
Cheers Legend. I'm gonna be bigheaded and assume this was for my benefit as commented that I needed your TW wisdom before committing to Warhammer 3 purchase! Love your content!
Thanks for the tier list man
Looks like tier lists are back on the menu boys!
I would rate Call of the beastmen lower, purely because you can buy Silence and Fury for half that price and get most of the content plus extras. The main limitation is that you can only have Taurox as your LL.
Putting Elspeth and Chorfs as low as Call of the Beastmen is wild I can't remember the last time I played non-taurox beastmen
i like khalida i think she is underrated personally and her starting position is a challenge which makes it fun
20:30 You also should mention the handmaiden, S tier agents.
If imperial archers weren't so useful in the first 10 turns of a campaign the Hunter and the Beast should be E tier, considering that Nakai and Markus don't grant global bonus to their faction.
Ogres are fun with a couple of mods (loreful neutral ogres, moving camps, extra lore of magics for butchers and balanced contracts)
Perfect timing as it's on steam sales right now
Ikit...chuckles...my boy loves that rat
I want to see a tier lists of all the tier lists Legend has made
tamurkhan is easily one of the funnest campaigns ive had in a very long while, genuinely one of the best characters to be added as DLC
A point to note is that you can’t complete the Vampire Coast main quest on Mortal Empires - wish I knew that before playing it! Our tastes seem to differ quite a lot, I like Dark Elves most and played Aranessa as the Vampire Coast, never played Skaven. I got all the High and Dark elves dlc, agree that some of them are play to win like Legend mentioned. Managed to complete the mini campaigns for Arkhan the Black and Markus Wulfhart, which I’m quite happy about!
I've done 2 full map completion with no defeats, one as Cult of Sotek and one as Clan Skryre. Prophet and Warlock is the best DLC by far.
These are really good. New people don't know which ones to get. I have them all but someone knew won't know.
The other thing with thrones of decay is that it is the newest DLC so of course it'll be more expensive. After Ogres, Khorne and Orks and whatever comes after, they'll probably drop the price and it'll be more worth it
there being a discount now too makes this a great video! thanks
What great timing, the DLC is all on sale!
Thank you! Friend has just gotten wh3 and asked me what to buy, perfect timing.
Legend when I played Daughters of the Forest I hated the starting position, which was my main complaint, but I loved playing on The Old World map, I recommend you try it at least once
Nice tier list @LegendofTotalWar ! I'm disappointed by how immortal empires placed certain lord's starting locations in weird/awkward places. Maybe for TWW4 they'll adjust the scale of the map entirely. By placing more provinces into larger versions of the existing continents; they could allow for more factions to exist in their cannon locations. Putting the fatty greenskin in the middle of Britannia feels strange.
So I think one major thing that was not addressed is the level of discount offered in steam sales. Quite relevant as there is one happening right now until November 5th. Most DLCs get 50% off except for the more recent ones. Chaos Dwarfs are only 33% off for example, and Thrones of Decay are 20% off. So really if you compare Thrones of Decay to the double lord WH2 DLCs, you're paying the same amount for half the lords. Of course this will change as new DLCs get released but I think it should definitely have been mentioned.
Nice, Manscaped is back!
in my consideration of DLC i consider the rework that was done alongside the DLC to be a part of it because I have been stuck next to Paradox for too long. but with this in mind, thrones of decay is an S tier rework, both the nurgle and empire rework were amazing all empire legendary lords now have unique mechanics. If such a thing were to come for the vampire coast and tomb kings it would be amazing because as you said their campaigns are far too similar.
If they would made a dlc thats adds unique faction mechanics to base game lords and dlc factions that are outadet/dont have one and only this or few units/basic lords extra. So no legendary lords just mechanic, I would put it in S+ tier and buy straight away if reasonably priced.
Exactly what i was looking for, thank you
Perfect, I was about to pick up the game and was completely unsure about what DLC to get.
I really wish Norsca had another lord or two. Starting in Norsca feels the same for both lords.
I want that female Skeggi lord to bring some variation in starting locations.
Tribes of the North mod, or Guv's Norsca Overhaul. Mods completely fix everything that the base game lacks in.
*Edit: The Halloween sale of SEGA is currently active on Steam, so if you want to get a DLC, get it now. they range from 20 to 50 % off (Of course the Blood DLC is the only that didn't get a discount, go figure)*
How I'd fix Sartosa.
1. Create a new FLC Legendary lord for the vampire coast dlc, similar to Drycha for the wood elves. To Replace Aranessa
2. Add a new Faction along the lines of Pirates/Vagabonds/Bandits With it's own legendary lords
3. Add Aranessa to this new Faction as a "bonus" legendary lord aside from what a DLC would usually have
Changing her mechanics as needed
For the Twisted and the Twilight DLC, you've missed the fact that it is the only TW:W2 DLC which comes with Legendary Heroes: Ghoritch for Skaven and Ariel for Wood Elves.
One niche benefit of the Vamp Coast DLC for WH3 is that Vamp Counts can now get Mornghouls for what it's worth.
I just picked up Warhammer 3 good timing and better video than others.
CA should think about going back to expansions style content like some companies like Firaxis or even Paradox still do. To be fair they are all hybrids too at this point releasing both what they call DLC and Expansions but imo having say 3 or 4 expansions that included all of the above content instead of so many piecemeal DLCs feels better as a customer.
*Starts watching video, hears sponsorship* "Ah, it must be manscaped." *A few seconds later...* "Welp, there we go!"
Love to see setras of twilight return :D
Legend cashing in them big checks lately.
Aranessa Saltspite is the only reason I'd put Vampire Coast on S tier, though the other 3 lords really drag it down for me
I love legend's tier lists!!!
I'm surprised he didn't like oxyotl, that was the first time i tried lizardmen and he makes them the most fun! He's S tier for me.
like somebody said, a cheese tier list would be great xD
Hi legends I've been alot of your Warhammer vids. And made me kinda interested in playing warhammer. Is there any dlc you recommend for a new player to purchase first?
The different stores also have regional pricing beyond exchange rates by the way
Perfect video to watch to fall asleep
The game really needs "race packs" now, to combine all the various DLC & base game content for individual races. Someone starting with W3 and wanting to play skaven, in order to get all the units/characters, needs to buy W2 and Ikit, Throt, Sniktch in separate DLC. Even getting something as basic as empire archers, needs the Markus DLC. It's still a huge barrier to entry for people, which is a shame. Probably too late now and it would be confusing as those with only W3 would want race packs, and those with W1 and/or W2 might be better off with the old DLC model.
27:25 thats an aus store thing, for the UKL steam store the WH1 lord packs are £6.99 and the WH2 ones are £7.99 (tho at the time of writing there is a big sale on atm 50% off for everything champions of chaos and earlier with chaos dwarves and shadows of change being 33% and thrones of decay being 20% off)
Funny thing, there is sale going on right now for the base game and dlc's. 50% off
Top 5s and Tier lists 👌
weirdly I really liked Markus' campaign when I played it back in 2
Chaos dwarfs would be my favorite DLC, but its so expensive. Only buy it on a discount.
Since you put the twisted and the twilight in S tier, I think you should have had Eltharion and Grom up there too.
Changes I would make: Tomb Kings, Vampire Coast and Chaos Dwarf to S tier.
Bretonia standing in the corner weeping