Also, someone else pointed this out; in Scylla, Odysseus has exactly six lines that he sings/says. Which is one of the minor details that make me love that song so much!!
Odyseuss' father was called "Lone Wolf" I don't really remember why, and Odyseuss and his army were called "Pack of Wolves" and now Telemachus is called "Little Wolf" by Epic
It's bc Ody's granddad (I think Hermes' son) had the name Autolycus which literally translates to something like 'the wolf itself', so his family since then tends to have wolf motifs.
In 600 Strike, other animators show the spirits. Remember that anyone drowned by Poseidon, abandoned in Polyphemus’ cave, eaten by Scylla, or fried by Zeus never had a proper burial, so their spirits are waiting on this side of the Styx for something. Whether that something ends up being an anime-esque Limit Break is up to the animator, or eventually, the choreographer.
pretty sure the only reason the crew voices appear is due to the fact uh... Odysseus summons them, as Monsters, despite not being God, have some powers that affect the song, and Odysseus is a monster, in Survive, Polyphemus summons his own choir stating his name during the beginning of the song, and Odysseus is summoning exactly that, since he is now, a Monster, this is further backed up by REDACTED information appearing in the Ithaca saga.
2:42:20 just saying to all the people saying she was cursed to fall in love with any visitor: FALSE. thats from percy jackson. in the odyssey, she was cursed to stay on this island for eternity. she cant leave, but, she is not cursed to fall inlove. this is not because of divine intervention: her choices are just her desperation. there is no excuse. just sayin'
What she did was wrong by detaining him, but the songs never suggested that she sexually assaulted him, and EPIC significantly diverges from the Odyssey. Thus, I believe it's unjust to label a lonely, desperate woman as entirely in the wrong for seeking some form of connection. Yes, she was insistent, but that does not render her a monster, as many claim based on the original myth. I don't forgive the original Calypso; she was a monster, but this retelling is not nearly as terrible.
@@user-qf8he7qd7fYeah, if Jorge wanted to portray Calypso as an assaulter he wouldn't have written "I'm Sorry For Loving You" the way he did, or at all tbh.
I think one thing you didn't realize about Scylla (or at least didn't comment about it), is how if you relisten to it you realize that Scylla isn't talking to Eurylochus, but to Ody. You can even almost completely remove Eurylochus from the lyrics and you end up with: deep down (1) deep down (2) deep down (3) You hide a reason for shame (Ody strolls into her lair, knowing there is a cost) deep down (4) You know that we are the same (both monsters) Leaving them feeling betrayed (he is about to sacrifice 6 men) Breaking the bonds that you've made (Eury: I'm so sorry, representing odysseus guilt) There is no price we won't pay (Eury: Forgive me) We both know what it takes to survive deep down (5) We only care for ourselves (foreshadowing thunderbringer) Ody: Eurylochus light up 6 torches (I don't want to choose who dies, because I only care for myself) (6) Deep down, we are lonely demons from hell (he accepted scylla's cost) And then the chorus by scylla and the harmony at the end of the song, which prompts the relisten to listen to the dialogue between scylla and odysseus. Odysseus is super quiet during the whole song showing his guilt and also due to the fact that Eurylochus says out loud what he is feeling in the moment. Also, scylla sings deep down 6 times, one for each life that has to be offered. Better yet, Odysseus has exactly 6 lines of spoken dialogue in this song: (1)The lair of scylla (2)This is our only way home (3)Not much to say (4)Eurylochus, light up six torches (5)Row for your lives (6)We are the same, you and I, I (ody only sings the 2nd "I", but because of the harmony, the implication is obviously here) *Chef's kiss* Another thing i absolutely love about the song is that when you have no visuals you wonder why the harmony is there at the end, obviously ody is a monster, but an harmony implies musically that there is some sort of dialogue between characters and how they are on the same wavelength and relistening you realize scylla isn't trying to convince eurylochus to confess, but talking initmately to Ody (deep down, even), and everything else that is happening around him is falling on his deaf ears.
I really love watching reactions of people who actually pay attention, think through things, and are some much smarter than me when it comes to things like remembering melodies. Especially enjoyed that despite clearly having a ear for music and probably knowing a bunch, you didn't make watching this feel like a lecture in music theory! PS: its 3:30 am, i'm at least a bit earlier than Act 1!
Athena replying with 'a broken heart can mend' I interpreted as a rebuke of the accusation that Odysseus' mother 'died of a broken heart' She's not saying 'Ody's mom's broken heart can mend and they can be happy', she's rebuking the assertion that she died of a broken heart, and/or the assertion that Ody is at fault for that. At least how I interpret it Honestly, the way I originally interpreted the line was Athena saying the blame was on Odysseus' mother for letting herself die, when a broken heart is capable of mending. A fucked up arguement for sure, but these are the Greek Gods.
There are very few reactors that are as insightful as you are, especially when it comes to musicals, you not only break down the musical components, but you also break down the emotional beats, and it feels as if you are genuinely impacted by both the music and the message, I would honestly love to see you react to more stuff, especially if you have things to say that are just as thoughtful
What I absolutely love about this is that when we first started this journey, Odysseus had a more of "no one has to die" mentality. However, after Polites' death - the inciting incident of it all - the scales tip too much to one side and he starts to adopt his friend's philosophy even when he shouldn't. The Underworld is his breaking point after so much death and suffering and the scale tips a lot to the other side as well. He becomes a monster, he kills the sirens in a very cruel way and sacrifices his men. This is where he finally reaches the point he needed. He offers Poseidon a way, an olive branch even when Poseidon himself killed so many people and was threatening his family, he still tries kindnesses and forgiveness first. When that doesn't work, thats when he applies ruthlessness instead. So while we could argue he's a monster in a figurative sense, I think it makes for a better point to say he's neither. He said it himself- he's neither man nor mythical -. He's not a god like Poseidon, he's not s total monster like Scylla, he's just something else.
actually i'd argue he said it himself EARLIER, he's "just a man" all flaws included, including ruthlessness, which is a very human thing, and cruelty, but also including guilt and love and desperation, Odysseus is Just A Man, from the start to the end, he just changed what type of man he is...for better or worse😅
I always feel so conflicted about the song "I'm not sorry for loving you", because I do wonder if Jorge meant for Ody to develop a (begrudging) friendship with Calypso. It would make the "I love you, but not in the way that you want me to" make more sense coming from him, essentially telling Calypso that while he eventually came to valuing their friendship, his feelings never went past platonic. But then Calypso's really manipulative lyrics make me question that as a writing decision (if that was Jorge's intent), because how could he not have picked up on them? Alternatively, I wonder if his "I love you" is a fawning response, essentially telling Calypso what she wants to hear (and what she's begging for him to say with the "I wish you would lie" line) so that he can leave the island as smoothly and quickly as possible, but then he backs out of it slightly with the "not in the way that you want me to", because had he just left it as "I love you" then Calypso would be fighting even harder for him to be stuck with her.
In my mind Calypso is an antagonist who is doing everything she can too escape eternal isolation. In a way I think it's more messed up that her feeling might actually be sincere, and she's hurting the man she loves.
in the "i love you" aspect i more saw it as him after being trapped there developing a certain type of companionship with her, like when you spend so much time with someone that you get particularly fond of them
God.. its so like.. refreshing to have someone actually react to these with some analysis/brain power behind it. Catchin the lips and phrases, the sirens, the six torches..
I also think you really over-estimated like.. how arrogant Poseidon is here. Like, yeah, Ody can't kill him, but like. He can wear him out, hurt him badly, etc. he was certainly "beat"
3:35:17 Funny you say that in this animation Hermes DOES point when he says "I'm not the one who fought for you", and if you saw his perspective it likely would be on Athena's Lapel
Yesssss ! Antinous has multiple instruments in Little Wolf : the voice of the other suitors backing him up ( He is to the Suitors what Eurylochus was to the crew ( their leader )) and an electric guitar to show he wants to take Odysseus' place ^^
My take on Poseidon at the end of 600 Strikes is that, in a sense, he won. Odysseus has fully come to embody the lesson Poseidon hammered into him about being ruthless and will forever be changed and tormented by it. He's proven his point, and if it takes a bit of pain for himself to get there then he can concede losing the battle and go on to win the war. Perhaps Odysseus even won some respect for him by finally casting aside his self-righteous sense of mercy and just getting the job done. Then again, him laughing at the end rather than just lying in the pool of his blood was also exclusive to this animatic. So who really knows?
In Jorge's commissioned animation of 600 strike the voices come out of nowhere (or he's using Ares' power but that's a theory), in other animatics the spirits are just there, Duvetbox tried to find a way for it to make sense but couldn't fathom all 600 helping Ody.
One thing I noticed in Scylla that idk if it was intentional is that even though the opening lines seem to be directed at Eurylochus, they also very much fit with Odysseus in what he is about to do.
1:51:21 The thing about cutting off people's sentences mid dialogue, sometimes it's intended to make the audience feel uncomfortable. It allows for showing what kind of villain or character you're dealing with when they enter the scene.
1:49:55 the live stream has Antinous (ant brain) throw a wine bowl at telemichous (please forgive my terrible spelling of the Greek names) when he says, "BOY!!!"
1:05:06 yes, this background piano is playing a portion of Scylla's instrumental, which is initially played via strings in her song [[[Notice how Luck Runs Out motif was played via strings here, whilst it was originally played by a piano?]]]
The things you notice are crazy. You are teaching me so many new things about this musical It is Helios but a lot of animatics depict Apollo erroneously I believe
2:00:00 actually yes! In the odyssey athena first shows up to telemachus as an older mentor figure, (aka like a father figure he's missed out on), not as a goddess, so yeah dude theres definitely some base to your hc
I never knew about your channel before epic but your analasys about all of this is my favorite across UA-cam. You are beautiful and a genius and had me looking at these songs in a different light. In addition, the fact you picked up on all the motifs so quickly is astounding to me. You are a blessing, keep doing what you are doing
In relation to the whole time span of the Odyssey - since Jorge has said he confused it during the Circe and Thunder Saga - the Trojan War lasted 10 years, then the entire journey of the Odyssey was 10 years. Odysseus spent 7 of those 10 years on Calypso's island (hence the time jump of 7 years mentioned at the start of the Wisdom Saga). Jorge corrected it to 10 years in the Vengeance Saga
I’m not very knowledgeable on the technicalities of music and stuff so I always love hearing people talk about this stuff in detail! Also Charybdis IS the one that’s Poseidon’s daughter. She was cursed by Zeus to be a monster whirlpool when she took Poseidon’s side in a disagreement between the two. I like to headcanon that in Epic Poseidon moved her closer to Ithaca.
I feel like the in story reason all the arguements in god games are pretty dumb is because a majority of the gods chosen by zeus could honestly care less about the situation like the only two who had personal stakes in it was aphrodite (she helped caus the trogen war and is the god of motherhood) and ares given his whole thing with him vs athena in War tactics all the others were called in arbitrarily
3:20:38 The error is thinking of Calypso as having the same teachings on boundaries and consent that we do. She’s been stuck here since childhood with absolutely zero interaction with anyone else, inside or out. She can’t be held to the same standard that we can. If you want to correct the mistakes she made, fine, but you can’t scold her for her actions as if she should have known, because by all accounts, she shouldn’t have. She needs someone to teach her. She’s like a child in an adult’s body. So yes, I do feel bad for Calypso. Extremely. Because no one wants to rescue her or help her be better.
After seven years, she clearly still doesn't care about Ody's feelings. Her whole song is about how him leaving affects her, and how it's Ody's fault for not loving her. Sure, I can accept that she didn't understand how to be with other people when he first arrived on the island, but she still sees Ody as 'her's' after seven years. She doesn't learn to see him as his own person over all that time. So yes, she absolutely should be judged. You can make the argument that she doesn't know because no one has taught her, but once Ody shows up then she should learn.
Scylla amd thunderbringer are my absolute favorites from epic. I especially love the many animated interpretations. For scylla (of what ive seen) - ani uses the more mythos accurate version of a monstrous female figure with dog like serpent heads. - the "canon" livestream uses a design with a worryingly attractive lady at the heart of a large beast with strange serpent x deep sea features. - gigi uses an absolutely horrific moray eel and demon woman. Seriously if you ever go back to watch more animatics of old songs you need to see it. Then with thunderbringer similar stuff happens. - Zeus being a massive being in the clouds, made of clouds, just a guy, being part minotaur, and more its just insane. You've had an incredibly compelling teirlist and wonderful analysis, can't wait to see you come back for the ithaca saga. Now I'm not familiar with your content style, i dont know if reactions are a common thing here or this was like a special event. I'll look around later, but I'd love to see if you have any interest in max0r. Some people say sentient editing software, I say GMV storyteller mastermind. But yeah with that recommendation done i ought to finish the next 3 hours of this and wish anyone who reads this a good day. Edit: i really hope god games gets a remaster. It feels like the weakest link in the whole story. (People have also made additional gods or better lines of reason)
My thoughts for the Calypso "saga": (complete speculation here, no evidence at all) I think the point of the song was to explain why Ody was stuck there for 7 years. It serves as a glimpse into the type of person (or God) he was stuck with. Someone desperate to love and be loved to the point where it does become forceful and abusive. Calypso's last conversation with him sounded manipulative because in reality it wasnt meant to be an apology. I think it was a last ditch effort to get him to stay. Which makes sense because after seven years why would she suddenly have a change of heart and want to free him?
There's a theory that Calypso, during Love In Paradise while she was trying to talk Odysseus down, was trying to use things from his past intentionally. Remember how she said Odysseus talks in his sleep? She uses things from 3 people who were important to him: "*Ody*, get away from the ledge" - Eurylochus in Mutiny is the only time we hear someone call Odysseus "Ody" "I know your life's been hard, *I'll stay inside your heart*" - His mom's spirit said that to him during The Underworld "Please stay away from harm, stay in my *open arms*" - Polites, obviously Remind me, who exactly comes in when Calypso's finished talking, there? So yeah, that's just a fun theory I've heard and wanted to share
Love your commentary, p2 was a treasure. I'd love to watch you comment on alternate animatics and the cut songs. Look forward to any and all further epic content.
Disagree with a decent amount of the placements(God Games, Warror of the mind, etc), but I love how basically everyone just knows Dangerous(Hermes) is amazing and deserves his own tier.
Song of past romance = suffering Sacrifice of man = Scylla Potrails if betrayals = mutiny A brothers final stand = Thunder bringer On the brink of death = live in paradise Draw your final breath = get in the water Gets to make it home alive = TBA
You should listen to the opening of Open Arms and Suffering together because there is an instrument that is in both. (Edit) Eurylochus is married to Ctimene Odysseus’ sister so they are brother-in-laws And fuck Calypso she was an adult by human standards not a child when she was banished to Ogygia
So technically the first time since Odysseus left home he finally hears Penelope's voice is at the end of Thunderbringer because in Suffering he doesnt hear the siren sing due to the bees wax. (Unless im wrong)
:sigh: If there's one song I really feel like is missing from this amazing musical, its Athena's first step on this character arc. There's no real good place for it, so I understand why its not there, but I really want to see the moment when Athena first admits to herself (as opposed to Telemachus) that Ody is/was her friend, and she misses him.
I love the idea of an "extended cut" that adds a song hear or there, or extends a song here or there to more fully develop the narrative. Especially for pre-death Polites, Athena, Penelope, and Calypso. I think it's a real shame that Penelope will only really get a voice in this story in the last saga
@@legitimatemedicine Agreed!!! My second big wish if extras are ever released is a Penelope Saga, addressing her struggles to lead the kingdom, hold off the suitors, and raise Telemachus to be a decent person in the middle of all that group of awful people in her house!
@AlexSilverCat I hope she gets some actual time in the Ithaca Saga. I want her to have some reservations over Odysseus' changes. I hope she isn't just used as a damsel/"happily ever after" prop
@@legitimatemedicine I'm hoping, hoping, hoping that we get at least one moment of her being awesome from the original Odyssey- there's a point when she's testing to see if this man is really her husband that she pulls one over on him and outwits him- its something that proved to me just how well matched the two actually are. I'm keeping my fingers crossed we see some version of it!
Ooof the biggest issue now is that after this comprehensive and amazing reaction and analysis....what do i do now? i tried watching someone else react but they listened to the song said it was nice and the video ended. no cool correlations between songs and motifs, no analysis of amazing lyrics. I have seen what there could be and how awesome of content people could make and now nothing but this will satisfy me.
I think the backing vocals from 600 strike comes from the spirits of his crew. Ive seen a few animatics that depict that song as him getting help from his dead crew and I’ve decided that’s my canon.
2:54:00 Odysseus was betrayed, by Eurylochus, he was his 2nd in command, brother in law and best friend, and it was HIM who opened the bag, also its directly Eurylochus's fault that they even *have* to go through Scylla and well, you could say Odysseus couldve fought Scylla but considering he was told the God of the Sea is afraid of her, can you really blame him for just complying?
Wait, so I know that in Greek mythology Charybdis is it supposed to be right next to Scylla but like Scylla is in the Thunder Saga Charybdis is in the Vengeance Saga and they’re like really far apart, but in this animatic you can see that Odysseus is looking down so when charybdis spit our water it pushes them forward I like that
Seeing how you seem to catch everything in this musical, i would love to see you react to "Jekyll & Hyde: The Gothic Music Thriller" (I highly recomend the Anthony Warlow version if you do c:) or to "Hadestown", both are awesome musicals in my opinion, and I would definitely love to see you react to them lol
While Calypso was wrong in her actions and her apology was not really one, I feel like it makes sense not because she's a bad person, but because she's never been in a society or interacted with someone to gain that kind of understanding or emotional intelligence. Granted she's a goddess so she probably wouldn't have been exposed to that kind of environment even if she hadn't been cast away but idk, she tried to amend things in the best way she knew and people just assume she's making things about herself on purpose!
I don´t know if anyone has mentioned it before, but Zeus is the only God who doesn´t introduce himself. All other gods have their mentioned in the song somewhere, either the chorus or Ody saying it. But never Zeus.
I HEAVILY recommend watching the official livestream animatics, they all hit insanely hard and are all by the community's big hitters like Gigi, AnniFlamma, Wolfy, Gwendy, etc. Also God Games in B is 200% a hot take
The depiction by BrittPowwPixel is disliked by me because it perpetuates the notion that Calypso assaulted Odysseus in this interpretation. I believed that Jorge would have omitted such an event, as he did with other objectionable elements in his retelling of The Odyssey.
That being said she does have the only "not sorry for loving you" animatic that actually wants us to understand and sympathise with Calypso which is Jay's intention from the song, not like those people who drew it to be manipulative and abusive just so people can hate on Calypso even more, *cough, Maevethefae, cough*
@@bookswithike3256 nah, they are being sung by someone who never interacted with a person in their life and doesn't know how to give a proper apology, someone who is just desperate because the moment odysseus leaves, they are gonna return to being alone for the rest of eternity, if you seriously can't find any sympathy for Calypso then that's your problem
@@omarsalem1219 I mean sure I feel a bit of sympathy towards her. But it doesn't override anything she's done or change that her apology is manipulative and false. I feel much more sympathy for Odysseus. And in the livestream the very apathetic look he has as he walks away kind of suggests that he didn't actually mean it when he told her he platonically loved her.
@@bookswithike3256 the Puppeteer strains mixed into Not Sorry for Loving You are what lead me to think it’s supposed to be manipulative and that it’s intentionally included.
Please consider reacting to some of the BTS content and parody animatics! There's a ton of comedy content from Jorge, as well as Troy (Hermes), and the cast is always unhinged with little skits and reenactments of scenes from the songs 😅
@UltraSonicArchives I definitely recommend the Hermes Saga! it's just shorts of Troy, as Hermes, harassing Jay, boasting blatant lies, and flirting with everyone (including himself)😅 For BTS, Jay has showcased a lot of songwriting details and unfinished or cut songs on his tiktok, as well as reference videos he sends to artists for animatics. Everything in them is just portrayed with things like godzilla figurines and pringle cans, but it's very impressive how well he still communicates his vision for the animatics.
How come @UltraSonicArchives kept calling out to Gigi for Different Beasts animatic and not Duvetbox even though they do acknowledge the artist at 32:20?
Poseidon also said "under your command" though. The comment in the stream was right, Jorge confirmed that Elpenor is the 558th man that died on Circe's island. He was originally going to show up in the Underworld Saga, but Jorge decided to cut it since it didnt fit. He kept the "558 men" line in as a reference to him^^
If you haven't checked out Neal Illustrator's God Games, I highly suggest you do- I haven't found a bad animatic of that one yet, but theirs is my absolute favorite! AnniFlamma's is my close second, though, so I'm glad you caught it!
In the God Games, my take was that Athena's initial arguments for Hera were more the two of them being playful and dancing around the fact that they both know Athena has a better argument up her sleeves
the reason why we hear circe's melody when scylla is mentioned in suffering is because circe was the one who cursed her
i also love how scylla's song is basically just telling her own story and it just happens to fit perfectly with ody too, they're the same after all
Also, someone else pointed this out; in Scylla, Odysseus has exactly six lines that he sings/says. Which is one of the minor details that make me love that song so much!!
Also Scylla has 6 lines in her belty voice as the heads attack
And on top of everything there is 100% an argument to be made for this song being 6/8ths which is at this point just a pun.
Odyseuss' father was called "Lone Wolf" I don't really remember why, and Odyseuss and his army were called "Pack of Wolves" and now Telemachus is called "Little Wolf" by Epic
It's bc Ody's granddad (I think Hermes' son) had the name Autolycus which literally translates to something like 'the wolf itself', so his family since then tends to have wolf motifs.
In 600 Strike, other animators show the spirits. Remember that anyone drowned by Poseidon, abandoned in Polyphemus’ cave, eaten by Scylla, or fried by Zeus never had a proper burial, so their spirits are waiting on this side of the Styx for something. Whether that something ends up being an anime-esque Limit Break is up to the animator, or eventually, the choreographer.
pretty sure the only reason the crew voices appear is due to the fact uh... Odysseus summons them, as Monsters, despite not being God, have some powers that affect the song, and Odysseus is a monster, in Survive, Polyphemus summons his own choir stating his name during the beginning of the song, and Odysseus is summoning exactly that, since he is now, a Monster, this is further backed up by REDACTED information appearing in the Ithaca saga.
2:42:20 just saying to all the people saying she was cursed to fall in love with any visitor: FALSE. thats from percy jackson. in the odyssey, she was cursed to stay on this island for eternity. she cant leave, but, she is not cursed to fall inlove. this is not because of divine intervention: her choices are just her desperation. there is no excuse. just sayin'
What she did was wrong by detaining him, but the songs never suggested that she sexually assaulted him, and EPIC significantly diverges from the Odyssey. Thus, I believe it's unjust to label a lonely, desperate woman as entirely in the wrong for seeking some form of connection. Yes, she was insistent, but that does not render her a monster, as many claim based on the original myth. I don't forgive the original Calypso; she was a monster, but this retelling is not nearly as terrible.
@@user-qf8he7qd7fExactly thank you
@@user-qf8he7qd7fYeah, if Jorge wanted to portray Calypso as an assaulter he wouldn't have written "I'm Sorry For Loving You" the way he did, or at all tbh.
I think one thing you didn't realize about Scylla (or at least didn't comment about it), is how if you relisten to it you realize that Scylla isn't talking to Eurylochus, but to Ody. You can even almost completely remove Eurylochus from the lyrics and you end up with:
deep down (1)
deep down (2)
deep down (3)
You hide a reason for shame (Ody strolls into her lair, knowing there is a cost)
deep down (4)
You know that we are the same (both monsters)
Leaving them feeling betrayed (he is about to sacrifice 6 men)
Breaking the bonds that you've made
(Eury: I'm so sorry, representing odysseus guilt)
There is no price we won't pay
(Eury: Forgive me)
We both know what it takes to survive
deep down (5)
We only care for ourselves (foreshadowing thunderbringer)
Ody: Eurylochus light up 6 torches (I don't want to choose who dies, because I only care for myself)
(6) Deep down, we are lonely demons from hell (he accepted scylla's cost)
And then the chorus by scylla and the harmony at the end of the song, which prompts the relisten to listen to the dialogue between scylla and odysseus.
Odysseus is super quiet during the whole song showing his guilt and also due to the fact that Eurylochus says out loud what he is feeling in the moment.
Also, scylla sings deep down 6 times, one for each life that has to be offered. Better yet, Odysseus has exactly 6 lines of spoken dialogue in this song:
(1)The lair of scylla
(2)This is our only way home
(3)Not much to say
(4)Eurylochus, light up six torches
(5)Row for your lives
(6)We are the same, you and I, I (ody only sings the 2nd "I", but because of the harmony, the implication is obviously here)
*Chef's kiss*
Another thing i absolutely love about the song is that when you have no visuals you wonder why the harmony is there at the end, obviously ody is a monster, but an harmony implies musically that there is some sort of dialogue between characters and how they are on the same wavelength and relistening you realize scylla isn't trying to convince eurylochus to confess, but talking initmately to Ody (deep down, even), and everything else that is happening around him is falling on his deaf ears.
I really love watching reactions of people who actually pay attention, think through things, and are some much smarter than me when it comes to things like remembering melodies. Especially enjoyed that despite clearly having a ear for music and probably knowing a bunch, you didn't make watching this feel like a lecture in music theory!
PS: its 3:30 am, i'm at least a bit earlier than Act 1!
Well, We're glad it's at least a little bit earlier to bed for you!
Athena replying with 'a broken heart can mend' I interpreted as a rebuke of the accusation that Odysseus' mother 'died of a broken heart'
She's not saying 'Ody's mom's broken heart can mend and they can be happy', she's rebuking the assertion that she died of a broken heart, and/or the assertion that Ody is at fault for that. At least how I interpret it
Honestly, the way I originally interpreted the line was Athena saying the blame was on Odysseus' mother for letting herself die, when a broken heart is capable of mending.
A fucked up arguement for sure, but these are the Greek Gods.
Also she broke Hephaestus heart by cheating on him with Ares
@@area52ron Athena got it on with Ares??
What, did she pull a "I'm stuck, Stepbro" manuever?!?
@@SirNightmareFuelAphrodite not Athena………
There are very few reactors that are as insightful as you are, especially when it comes to musicals, you not only break down the musical components, but you also break down the emotional beats, and it feels as if you are genuinely impacted by both the music and the message, I would honestly love to see you react to more stuff, especially if you have things to say that are just as thoughtful
What I absolutely love about this is that when we first started this journey, Odysseus had a more of "no one has to die" mentality. However, after Polites' death - the inciting incident of it all - the scales tip too much to one side and he starts to adopt his friend's philosophy even when he shouldn't.
The Underworld is his breaking point after so much death and suffering and the scale tips a lot to the other side as well.
He becomes a monster, he kills the sirens in a very cruel way and sacrifices his men.
This is where he finally reaches the point he needed. He offers Poseidon a way, an olive branch even when Poseidon himself killed so many people and was threatening his family, he still tries kindnesses and forgiveness first.
When that doesn't work, thats when he applies ruthlessness instead.
So while we could argue he's a monster in a figurative sense, I think it makes for a better point to say he's neither.
He said it himself- he's neither man nor mythical -. He's not a god like Poseidon, he's not s total monster like Scylla, he's just something else.
actually i'd argue he said it himself EARLIER, he's "just a man" all flaws included, including ruthlessness, which is a very human thing, and cruelty, but also including guilt and love and desperation, Odysseus is Just A Man, from the start to the end, he just changed what type of man he is...for better or worse😅
YES I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO THE SECOND PART DROPPING!!
I always feel so conflicted about the song "I'm not sorry for loving you", because I do wonder if Jorge meant for Ody to develop a (begrudging) friendship with Calypso.
It would make the "I love you, but not in the way that you want me to" make more sense coming from him, essentially telling Calypso that while he eventually came to valuing their friendship, his feelings never went past platonic.
But then Calypso's really manipulative lyrics make me question that as a writing decision (if that was Jorge's intent), because how could he not have picked up on them?
Alternatively, I wonder if his "I love you" is a fawning response, essentially telling Calypso what she wants to hear (and what she's begging for him to say with the "I wish you would lie" line) so that he can leave the island as smoothly and quickly as possible, but then he backs out of it slightly with the "not in the way that you want me to", because had he just left it as "I love you" then Calypso would be fighting even harder for him to be stuck with her.
In my mind Calypso is an antagonist who is doing everything she can too escape eternal isolation. In a way I think it's more messed up that her feeling might actually be sincere, and she's hurting the man she loves.
in the "i love you" aspect i more saw it as him after being trapped there developing a certain type of companionship with her, like when you spend so much time with someone that you get particularly fond of them
For me, I always see Different Beasts as Ody's villain monologue
PRAISE BE THE GALACTIC DUST COALESCING INTO ONE OF MY FAVORITE REACTORS!!
God.. its so like.. refreshing to have someone actually react to these with some analysis/brain power behind it.
Catchin the lips and phrases, the sirens, the six torches..
I also think you really over-estimated like.. how arrogant Poseidon is here.
Like, yeah, Ody can't kill him, but like.
He can wear him out, hurt him badly, etc.
he was certainly "beat"
3:35:17 Funny you say that in this animation Hermes DOES point when he says "I'm not the one who fought for you", and if you saw his perspective it likely would be on Athena's Lapel
Yesssss ! Antinous has multiple instruments in Little Wolf : the voice of the other suitors backing him up ( He is to the Suitors what Eurylochus was to the crew ( their leader )) and an electric guitar to show he wants to take Odysseus' place ^^
My take on Poseidon at the end of 600 Strikes is that, in a sense, he won.
Odysseus has fully come to embody the lesson Poseidon hammered into him about being ruthless and will forever be changed and tormented by it. He's proven his point, and if it takes a bit of pain for himself to get there then he can concede losing the battle and go on to win the war.
Perhaps Odysseus even won some respect for him by finally casting aside his self-righteous sense of mercy and just getting the job done.
Then again, him laughing at the end rather than just lying in the pool of his blood was also exclusive to this animatic.
So who really knows?
In Jorge's commissioned animation of 600 strike the voices come out of nowhere (or he's using Ares' power but that's a theory), in other animatics the spirits are just there, Duvetbox tried to find a way for it to make sense but couldn't fathom all 600 helping Ody.
The best We could come up with is "The holy moly power is permanent but the thing you create is only around till you beat your opponent"
@@UltraSonicArchives That is such a great explanation 😮
One thing I noticed in Scylla that idk if it was intentional is that even though the opening lines seem to be directed at Eurylochus, they also very much fit with Odysseus in what he is about to do.
1:51:21 The thing about cutting off people's sentences mid dialogue, sometimes it's intended to make the audience feel uncomfortable. It allows for showing what kind of villain or character you're dealing with when they enter the scene.
Honestly, God Games could have been its own saga,
The God saga, The Olympic saga, The Trial saga?
They all deserve a full song!
1:49:55 the live stream has Antinous (ant brain) throw a wine bowl at telemichous (please forgive my terrible spelling of the Greek names) when he says, "BOY!!!"
1:05:06 yes, this background piano is playing a portion of Scylla's instrumental, which is initially played via strings in her song [[[Notice how Luck Runs Out motif was played via strings here, whilst it was originally played by a piano?]]]
YIPPEE! You are SO good at attention to detail! Amazing brain you got!
The things you notice are crazy. You are teaching me so many new things about this musical
It is Helios but a lot of animatics depict Apollo erroneously I believe
i think this is genuinely the best epic analysis ive ever seen
2:00:00 actually yes! In the odyssey athena first shows up to telemachus as an older mentor figure, (aka like a father figure he's missed out on), not as a goddess, so yeah dude theres definitely some base to your hc
THE ITHICA SAGA HAS COME OUT
I never knew about your channel before epic but your analasys about all of this is my favorite across UA-cam. You are beautiful and a genius and had me looking at these songs in a different light. In addition, the fact you picked up on all the motifs so quickly is astounding to me. You are a blessing, keep doing what you are doing
In relation to the whole time span of the Odyssey - since Jorge has said he confused it during the Circe and Thunder Saga - the Trojan War lasted 10 years, then the entire journey of the Odyssey was 10 years. Odysseus spent 7 of those 10 years on Calypso's island (hence the time jump of 7 years mentioned at the start of the Wisdom Saga). Jorge corrected it to 10 years in the Vengeance Saga
I’m not very knowledgeable on the technicalities of music and stuff so I always love hearing people talk about this stuff in detail!
Also Charybdis IS the one that’s Poseidon’s daughter. She was cursed by Zeus to be a monster whirlpool when she took Poseidon’s side in a disagreement between the two. I like to headcanon that in Epic Poseidon moved her closer to Ithaca.
I feel like the in story reason all the arguements in god games are pretty dumb is because a majority of the gods chosen by zeus could honestly care less about the situation like the only two who had personal stakes in it was aphrodite (she helped caus the trogen war and is the god of motherhood) and ares given his whole thing with him vs athena in War tactics all the others were called in arbitrarily
four-and-a-half hours? *delicious*
3:20:38
The error is thinking of Calypso as having the same teachings on boundaries and consent that we do. She’s been stuck here since childhood with absolutely zero interaction with anyone else, inside or out. She can’t be held to the same standard that we can. If you want to correct the mistakes she made, fine, but you can’t scold her for her actions as if she should have known, because by all accounts, she shouldn’t have. She needs someone to teach her. She’s like a child in an adult’s body. So yes, I do feel bad for Calypso. Extremely. Because no one wants to rescue her or help her be better.
After seven years, she clearly still doesn't care about Ody's feelings. Her whole song is about how him leaving affects her, and how it's Ody's fault for not loving her. Sure, I can accept that she didn't understand how to be with other people when he first arrived on the island, but she still sees Ody as 'her's' after seven years. She doesn't learn to see him as his own person over all that time. So yes, she absolutely should be judged. You can make the argument that she doesn't know because no one has taught her, but once Ody shows up then she should learn.
Scylla amd thunderbringer are my absolute favorites from epic.
I especially love the many animated interpretations.
For scylla (of what ive seen)
- ani uses the more mythos accurate version of a monstrous female figure with dog like serpent heads.
- the "canon" livestream uses a design with a worryingly attractive lady at the heart of a large beast with strange serpent x deep sea features.
- gigi uses an absolutely horrific moray eel and demon woman. Seriously if you ever go back to watch more animatics of old songs you need to see it.
Then with thunderbringer similar stuff happens.
- Zeus being a massive being in the clouds, made of clouds, just a guy, being part minotaur, and more its just insane.
You've had an incredibly compelling teirlist and wonderful analysis, can't wait to see you come back for the ithaca saga.
Now I'm not familiar with your content style, i dont know if reactions are a common thing here or this was like a special event.
I'll look around later, but I'd love to see if you have any interest in max0r.
Some people say sentient editing software, I say GMV storyteller mastermind.
But yeah with that recommendation done i ought to finish the next 3 hours of this and wish anyone who reads this a good day.
Edit: i really hope god games gets a remaster. It feels like the weakest link in the whole story. (People have also made additional gods or better lines of reason)
My thoughts for the Calypso "saga":
(complete speculation here, no evidence at all) I think the point of the song was to explain why Ody was stuck there for 7 years. It serves as a glimpse into the type of person (or God) he was stuck with. Someone desperate to love and be loved to the point where it does become forceful and abusive.
Calypso's last conversation with him sounded manipulative because in reality it wasnt meant to be an apology. I think it was a last ditch effort to get him to stay. Which makes sense because after seven years why would she suddenly have a change of heart and want to free him?
There's a theory that Calypso, during Love In Paradise while she was trying to talk Odysseus down, was trying to use things from his past intentionally. Remember how she said Odysseus talks in his sleep?
She uses things from 3 people who were important to him:
"*Ody*, get away from the ledge" - Eurylochus in Mutiny is the only time we hear someone call Odysseus "Ody"
"I know your life's been hard, *I'll stay inside your heart*" - His mom's spirit said that to him during The Underworld
"Please stay away from harm, stay in my *open arms*" - Polites, obviously
Remind me, who exactly comes in when Calypso's finished talking, there?
So yeah, that's just a fun theory I've heard and wanted to share
Hell yeah hes all caught up with the epic
Edit: him saying sexy tp zues was expected but still caught me off guard
Love your commentary, p2 was a treasure. I'd love to watch you comment on alternate animatics and the cut songs. Look forward to any and all further epic content.
Disagree with a decent amount of the placements(God Games, Warror of the mind, etc), but I love how basically everyone just knows Dangerous(Hermes) is amazing and deserves his own tier.
For real God games and little wolf are my favorite songs
@muhammetemiraydin1459 same
Hermes is Epic's mascot and he deserves his own tier for it 😂
Fun fact! The piano motif at the end of Thunder Bringer is called "Telemachus's Lullaby" :)
would this be the lullaby that tele heard when he was younger, if so i may sob
The reason why Telemachus stops talking in Legendary is because he gets hit in the face by Antibous throwing a bowl at him canonically.
Song of past romance = suffering
Sacrifice of man = Scylla
Potrails if betrayals = mutiny
A brothers final stand = Thunder bringer
On the brink of death = live in paradise
Draw your final breath = get in the water
Gets to make it home alive = TBA
Maybe
Gets to make it home alive, but it’s no longer you: 600 strike and Odysseus (King)
You should listen to the opening of Open Arms and Suffering together because there is an instrument that is in both.
(Edit)
Eurylochus is married to Ctimene Odysseus’ sister so they are brother-in-laws
And fuck Calypso she was an adult by human standards not a child when she was banished to Ogygia
I'm so happy your not endlessly hating on Calypso! 😌❤
"don't get in the water when beautiful women tell you to get in the water"
Poseidon: "get in the water"
Athena is like one of those strict parents that end up being a real sweetheart of a grandmother
So technically the first time since Odysseus left home he finally hears Penelope's voice is at the end of Thunderbringer because in Suffering he doesnt hear the siren sing due to the bees wax. (Unless im wrong)
Can't wait to come back here for Ithaca!
WE ARE SO BACK, YIPPEEE!!!
Now you understand why my favorite song is Scylla
I tried to catch this stream but I missed it bc I was busy 😭.
(Cohort is a collective noun!)
:sigh: If there's one song I really feel like is missing from this amazing musical, its Athena's first step on this character arc. There's no real good place for it, so I understand why its not there, but I really want to see the moment when Athena first admits to herself (as opposed to Telemachus) that Ody is/was her friend, and she misses him.
I love the idea of an "extended cut" that adds a song hear or there, or extends a song here or there to more fully develop the narrative. Especially for pre-death Polites, Athena, Penelope, and Calypso. I think it's a real shame that Penelope will only really get a voice in this story in the last saga
@@legitimatemedicine Agreed!!! My second big wish if extras are ever released is a Penelope Saga, addressing her struggles to lead the kingdom, hold off the suitors, and raise Telemachus to be a decent person in the middle of all that group of awful people in her house!
@AlexSilverCat I hope she gets some actual time in the Ithaca Saga. I want her to have some reservations over Odysseus' changes. I hope she isn't just used as a damsel/"happily ever after" prop
@@legitimatemedicine I'm hoping, hoping, hoping that we get at least one moment of her being awesome from the original Odyssey- there's a point when she's testing to see if this man is really her husband that she pulls one over on him and outwits him- its something that proved to me just how well matched the two actually are. I'm keeping my fingers crossed we see some version of it!
ive not seen a reactor view the version of scylla that you watched but i believe its a much better representation of her than other animatics
Ooof the biggest issue now is that after this comprehensive and amazing reaction and analysis....what do i do now? i tried watching someone else react but they listened to the song said it was nice and the video ended. no cool correlations between songs and motifs, no analysis of amazing lyrics. I have seen what there could be and how awesome of content people could make and now nothing but this will satisfy me.
We're sorry :(
@UltraSonicArchives I accept the apology :((( I am looking forward to any future musical analysis you do 💕
Im so excited to see you react to the Ithaca saga now that its out
I think the backing vocals from 600 strike comes from the spirits of his crew. Ive seen a few animatics that depict that song as him getting help from his dead crew and I’ve decided that’s my canon.
Someone said that Polites is the real villain of Epic and I can't refute that. Out here stabbing our hearts and merc'ing our very souls.
2:54:00 Odysseus was betrayed, by Eurylochus, he was his 2nd in command, brother in law and best friend, and it was HIM who opened the bag, also its directly Eurylochus's fault that they even *have* to go through Scylla and well, you could say Odysseus couldve fought Scylla but considering he was told the God of the Sea is afraid of her, can you really blame him for just complying?
Poseidon: we don’t in Steven Universe
I love your take on calypso
Wait, so I know that in Greek mythology Charybdis is it supposed to be right next to Scylla but like Scylla is in the Thunder Saga Charybdis is in the Vengeance Saga and they’re like really far apart, but in this animatic you can see that Odysseus is looking down so when charybdis spit our water it pushes them forward I like that
YESSS I WAS WAITING FOR THISSSS
1:13:50 it had to be said
Seeing how you seem to catch everything in this musical, i would love to see you react to "Jekyll & Hyde: The Gothic Music Thriller" (I highly recomend the Anthony Warlow version if you do c:) or to "Hadestown", both are awesome musicals in my opinion, and I would definitely love to see you react to them lol
♪♪♫Just let me close my eyes (and spare myself the view)♫♪♪
you should watch the live stream 12/25/2024 or the vod. So, you can see how jorge envision the story. he comission vison for the live stream
While Calypso was wrong in her actions and her apology was not really one, I feel like it makes sense not because she's a bad person, but because she's never been in a society or interacted with someone to gain that kind of understanding or emotional intelligence. Granted she's a goddess so she probably wouldn't have been exposed to that kind of environment even if she hadn't been cast away but idk, she tried to amend things in the best way she knew and people just assume she's making things about herself on purpose!
I don´t know if anyone has mentioned it before, but Zeus is the only God who doesn´t introduce himself. All other gods have their mentioned in the song somewhere, either the chorus or Ody saying it. But never Zeus.
I HEAVILY recommend watching the official livestream animatics, they all hit insanely hard and are all by the community's big hitters like Gigi, AnniFlamma, Wolfy, Gwendy, etc.
Also God Games in B is 200% a hot take
I hope your final reaction is posted soon. I tried to watch the stream and was behind and it cut off during your reaction to the last song. 😅😢😭😱
Okay vocals gonna need a dangerous cover 🙂↕️
You need to watch the Neal Illustrator animatic for god games. There’s a statue at the beginning that might interest you.
The depiction by BrittPowwPixel is disliked by me because it perpetuates the notion that Calypso assaulted Odysseus in this interpretation. I believed that Jorge would have omitted such an event, as he did with other objectionable elements in his retelling of The Odyssey.
That being said she does have the only "not sorry for loving you" animatic that actually wants us to understand and sympathise with Calypso which is Jay's intention from the song, not like those people who drew it to be manipulative and abusive just so people can hate on Calypso even more, *cough, Maevethefae, cough*
@@omarsalem1219 If Jorge intended us to sympathise with Calypso he wrote it badly. The lyrics are inherently manipulative.
@@bookswithike3256 nah, they are being sung by someone who never interacted with a person in their life and doesn't know how to give a proper apology, someone who is just desperate because the moment odysseus leaves, they are gonna return to being alone for the rest of eternity, if you seriously can't find any sympathy for Calypso then that's your problem
@@omarsalem1219 I mean sure I feel a bit of sympathy towards her. But it doesn't override anything she's done or change that her apology is manipulative and false. I feel much more sympathy for Odysseus. And in the livestream the very apathetic look he has as he walks away kind of suggests that he didn't actually mean it when he told her he platonically loved her.
@@bookswithike3256 the Puppeteer strains mixed into Not Sorry for Loving You are what lead me to think it’s supposed to be manipulative and that it’s intentionally included.
I think Scylla is in 6/8, because her Six(6) heads Ate (8)
hyped
Finally can see mutiny now
YAYAYYYYYAY
Please consider reacting to some of the BTS content and parody animatics! There's a ton of comedy content from Jorge, as well as Troy (Hermes), and the cast is always unhinged with little skits and reenactments of scenes from the songs 😅
When it comes to the Ithica Saga, We'll likely be having a look at this stuff! If there are any specific suggestions let us know!
@UltraSonicArchives I definitely recommend the Hermes Saga! it's just shorts of Troy, as Hermes, harassing Jay, boasting blatant lies, and flirting with everyone (including himself)😅
For BTS, Jay has showcased a lot of songwriting details and unfinished or cut songs on his tiktok, as well as reference videos he sends to artists for animatics. Everything in them is just portrayed with things like godzilla figurines and pringle cans, but it's very impressive how well he still communicates his vision for the animatics.
@@Cl0udlight”love doing that!” - hermes (fr though you should)
Calypso song isn't an apology song she is literally saying I'm not sorry I don't know why you upset about her not apologizing correctly
It would be a crime if you didn't watch Neal Illustrators God Games
How come @UltraSonicArchives kept calling out to Gigi for Different Beasts animatic and not Duvetbox even though they do acknowledge the artist at 32:20?
He was praising what gigi did with the lips in her suffering animatic after hearing the "I read your lips" line from Odysseus
🤍🤍🤍
He lost 558 men the reason posiden said 43 left is because he was counting oddy
Poseidon also said "under your command" though. The comment in the stream was right, Jorge confirmed that Elpenor is the 558th man that died on Circe's island. He was originally going to show up in the Underworld Saga, but Jorge decided to cut it since it didnt fit. He kept the "558 men" line in as a reference to him^^
You can also see him stumbling on Circe’s roof in some of the animatics for There Are Other Ways, including Gigi’s.
If you haven't checked out Neal Illustrator's God Games, I highly suggest you do- I haven't found a bad animatic of that one yet, but theirs is my absolute favorite! AnniFlamma's is my close second, though, so I'm glad you caught it!
In the God Games, my take was that Athena's initial arguments for Hera were more the two of them being playful and dancing around the fact that they both know Athena has a better argument up her sleeves