Super counters are annoying and inconsistent for me. So much so that I just dropped the entire thing and focused on vanishing, sidestepping, and perception. The day I stopped using super counters was the day I went up at least five ranks
personally I agree that it should stay put as it is. It's honestly an accessible mechanic that prevents infinites and literally every character can do it. Just kinda seems like a lot of people saying super counter is too strong may just be doing the square button game
It’s a mix of both I have noticed my rush chains like the triangle moves get countered like crazy now. Idk if that’s a patch thing or community getting better thing
I'd say the only time it's a problem is when you can spam it when you're getting hit with rush chains. They need to make it more difficult to be triggered. Otherwise it's fine.
I think it's great as a last resort. Recently I realized we get an entire skill bar after getting hit with a super. Rush chains make it increase kinda fast, too. Maybe reducing that would fix it for good
I disagree having super counter being as easy as it is and as free as it is encourages people to do unsafe moves without being punished. I think super counters are kind of scrubby. The real skill gap is playing neutral properly and not getting hit. If you break out of a combo, you need to use resources they should have just made revenge counters do what super counter does so at least it’s not free. it shouldn’t even take skill to break out of a combo. It should take skill to not get combo in the first place.
My opinion is that mashing super counter shouldn't work and when you are super countering eachother's super counter it should either speed up or eventually result in an event that resets the neutral.
Mixing up my combos and strings literally never seems to matter. I get super countered out of almost any combo beyond like 5 hits if I'm playing someone competent. My issue isn't even that in particular. It's the SC > Vanish war > neutral. SC > Vanish war > neutral. I really do not like fighting say.. a turtle UI goku, punishing wild sense 4 times, but each time he super counters me out of my third hit. I'm not even that high rank. I'm a rank, and people on pc seem to be ungodly super human good at them. And I have hundreds of hours into this game already. I don't mind a combo breaker, but SC feels SO obnoxious. Especially vs auto dodge character and on top of perception. Imo Super Counter just isn't a fun mechanic. Feels bad on both ends. "WHY DIDNT MY COUNTER COME OUT!?" vs "WHY CAN HE RANDOMLY BREAK EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY 5 HIT STRINGS?"
If you can hit more super counters by not mashing it then it’s a skill diff my guy. Idk what else to tell you lol that’s like saying auto combos vs normal combos the same because you can just mash
Keep in mind most opinions come from folks current set up at their own homes, but what I'm speaking of effects anyone who touches sparking zero, outside of pc.
All this super counter talk must be strictly PC, on Ps5 super counters are NOT all that. PC must have godly servers bc I can super counter the Ai like 5 times a row but online feels like everything is thrown out the window🤦♂️
There are extremely very few players who have super counter mastered, and those are mainly PC players. Super counter reads easy at the first hit, but there isn't an exact window to use it. They tell you "just before you're hit" half the time that timing doesn't work. I seem to hit properly when I see the flickers, but that's only the first charge smash attack.
I think Super Counter needs to be tightened cause a lotta people will spam it and on someone who hits faster that option has a higher rate However if it’s a slower hitting character spamming makes it really hard to land Originally I felt like it should cost a resource but after the last patch I don’t feel like it’s as important Offense < defense before Offense ≠ defense post patch I got my 2 cents but more importantly boss when are we boxing 🤔
Yeah Super Counter is fine as is. If any change comes to it, just reduce the cooldown time window. But think its good as is foreal. Super Counter wars going back and fourth are so satisfying. What we REALLY should be talking about is super perception. not perception. Just Super perception. It takes the skill out correctly inputting a directional block when someone does a step in rush attack to continue their combo string. So you get super perception in the middle of combo for 1 skill point which is nothing in this game.
Another random thought I had on perception is make the Ki drain rate much faster when using it to discourage people from holding it. In terms of spamming, make it take the same amount of ki it does for a vanish post or pre patch for initial press. Take your pick.
Perception needs fixxing 32 uses for 1 bar of ki, and it activates in 1/4th of a second and can be used infinitely when under 2 bars of ki. It needs fixxing. Bt3 already figured out how to balance some stuff, sparking zero tossd out every single counterbalancing mechanic for some reason
I feel like there should be some penalty for spamming and window becomes tighter after doing so in succession. What's the point of having long combos in the game if you can never do them unless you play against a new player.
Maybe my issue stems from playing against cheese. I never have good opponents on this game. It's so bad, I get on rank, just to see who I need to block until I get someone who tryna throw hands. So far, straight spam gods and crabs
What are you playing at? PC? Because I would be super happy if I would be able to do 2 super counters in a row, the timing of it is already fu***d up, I still don't understand how they work constantly. They shouldn't be touched, it still feels like something that you need skill for it, it's not as easy as perception.
I’m on ps5. There’s a setting on consoles to plug in your controller and lower the delay. You have to put the option on though you just can’t plug in your controller and that’s how I play for minimal delay. I’ve hit lime 5-6 counters in a row pre patch but nothing out of this world
Heres my question how can u say behind ur screen that someone is mashing super counter between them actually putting in the practice to time the super counter. I think it needs a limit its basically a combo breaker, and combo breakers arent free of resources.
Yeah, I agree. It’s not the skill gap that people think it is. The real skill gap is not getting hit in the first place. They should’ve just made revenge counters function the way super counters do. it should be easy to break out of a combo, but you have to give up resources to do it
You're suppose to input super counter based on the tempo of your opponent. But to read the timing PROPERLY was never fully clear, to where everyone is mastering it. 85% of everyone still spamming super counter while theater 15 (onPC) mastered it on command.
Great video, glad people are starting understand the mechanics a bit more. Super counters don't need a change, they are fine the way the are. Imo not too hard to do but not too easy to where scrubs can abuse, you need to put in time for value and that's great. Makes it so it's necessary in order to fill in that skill gap. Every fighting game has something similar, to where you need some type of skill to pull off a move for high reward and with SC it allows that, just wish the game tells you what the window is to input it so people don't have to guess and resort to spamming
@@Johnny_Salamii you’re right about putting in the time because I need to put in a lil more time with them. Some people are demons! I agree with wanting more info. Like is it truly better to mash it against fast hitting characters ? So many questions
@ I think it depends on the timing of when the opponent is inputing their rush attacks. For instance, if the opponent is doing square square square triange then you do the super counter right before that triangle. The reason why it could be so difficult is because characters have faster frames than other because they are faster in general. Like in my stream earlier I mentioned that I use BASE Vegito because people have a harder time predicting the super counter because of his slower rush attacks. But I could be wrong, just something I was thinking
There needs to be a counter when you get knocked on the ground over and over. Super counters help when you're being punched repeatedly in the back and you can't break out.
It’s pretty much for me I have to go to the person im fighting because they know they have the advantage but I’m z and this casual so I’m like Idc if you win I want style and have fun
I feel like the issue is that there are like 7 defensive mechanics, but they are all extremely skewed in terms of usefulness. So high-skill play often devolves into super-counter and vanish wars which feels monotonous. This is coming from someone who really likes defensive mechanics in fighting games and dislikes long, uninterruptable combo strings.
Yeah no, sounds like you use a character with fast attacks (jiren, mui goku, ssj4 goge) and dont like that your button mashing can be countered. Super counter is already pretty hard on characters who have a normal attack speed
@@djspit8929 i main kale and caulifla "slow" basic attacks get way more often super countered than thoose you called Super countering a Mui, Gogeta blue or any caracter who has fast basic attacks is actually tough Often i get super countered on hit one even if i just switched my pattern conpletly mid match Thats just anoying and
@derstapel9782 thats objectively false. Super counter has a 4 frame window of activation, those fast attacks (jiren gets 6 punches off of one square/x press similar to the others i named) meaning one button press from them has multiple opportunities for one of those super counters to connect..whereas on a slower character like kale or caulifla whose button presses give one attack you actually have to time your input to match within a 4 frame attack window. More simplified. One square press from jiren affords a 24 frame window to super counter, 2 presses doubles that window to 48 frames and so on. Essentially for every time a speedy character attacks their chance of getting super countered multiplies by 2-3x. Whereas slow characters like your mains have to actually be time matched to pull it off. You probably just feel that way because you fuse into kefla as soon as you can turning your 2 slow characters into 1 fast, easily super countered one And dont deny that you fuse them, why would you pick 2 characters that fuse if that isnt your game plan. I.e...i read you like a book big dog before you even named your mains lol
I believe super counters are better than every defense. They are free They beat everything literally everything. I learned thru the bots that you can even super counter a super perception (when you hold b over a charged attack. And do a slow counter that normally is unavoidable.) it’s probably the hardest frame input in the game but if a computer can do it that means it’s part of the game. If you’re having trouble against someone who’s super countering too much Guess what You can’t super counter a super counter!!! Almost like a vanish war but even more badass. Wait for your opponent to switch to vanish and then switch from super counter to vanish and it’s so much easier to win those little defense wars. If you’re fighting someone who’s just holding perception and tossing away all your grabs. The best and only way is truly The perfect smash (Timing the charged melee and releasing it when you flicker so you teleport behind them.) It gets past both super counter if they’re holding perception, perception can’t stop it it’s only avoidable by a vanish which even then people normally avoid it by accident because it’s so hard to avoid. And when people are focusing on perception, it’s basically free eats. Overall though. You never want to only use one ability in your kit. I’m gonna use smash bros as my reference. Every character has a set of moves and you can only get the max potential out of a character by using ALL of their moves. (Specifically in smash, repeating moves would decrease their damage input and would force you to use new moves to refresh the damage inputs.) I have no idea if this is applied to games like sparking zero but that concept of only being able to see the full potential by maxing your kit still applies more than ever for defense in sparking zero. Never rely too much on one thing That’s why I love your take on “it’s a skill issue.” Every one is complaining that they are struggling and it’s really showing the boys from men. If you can’t overcome the struggle then this game probably isn’t for you as the struggle is a part of the whole experience. There would be no thrill without struggle.
Super counter needs to made easier. When you charge up a smash, you see the flickers, you super counter then, bandia messed this up, when they didn't repeat this during super counter or vanish war. You no longer see the flickers. If those flickers stayed every time during a charge smash or vanish war, to read super counter timing would be a lot clearer to see. Idc how much I train on super counter, I don't see myself mastering something you can't even read properly
Yeah no it doesn’t need to be made easier. People already mash super counter as it is. You’re just getting unlucky. Matter of fact it’s already easier considering it’s a 4 frame move while in BT3 it was 1 frame. Just get better
@forsaken7752 i want to input super counter correctly every time, not mash. I actually do get lucky in-game a lot. But I don't want to be a masher, I want to know the exact moment to press, is my point. So I do see multiple ways it could be made easier, and benefit everyone.
@ yeah and like I said before that’s just a skill issue. What YOU want doesn’t matter in this scenario since people WILL utilize the mechanic to the fullest. If you want to get better at timing it then practice learning the rhythm of attacks. Besides there are moments where you can time super counters such as smash attacks, lift strike heavies, vanish attacks, grabs, and rush chains. Just get good dude
@ you’re clearly personally insulted considering you’re asking to 1v1 me in games I don’t even play anymore. Like I said pal you can get better at super countering. The only thing stopping you is yourself and internet timing
Imagine Super Counter, Vanish, and Step are Rock, Paper Scissors. In the current iteration of the game, Rock beats everything. Completely. If you can do Super Counter instead of any other defensive option, you will do it because it is entirely risk free outside of the execution. Imo they need to find a way to balance all 3 of these options to be closer to equal in terms of usage, particularly surrounding rush chains. I have absolutely no idea what the right course of action to achieve that would be, or if it would even ultimately make sense to do, but some examples would be preventing super counter during certain points in a combo such as at the very end if it's a hard knockdown or during a heavy attack that staggers, but the player is able to use another defensive option to compensate. This would hopefully facilitate mix and reads over super counter spam. TL;DR This game needs to take a page out of FighterZ and give everything both a viable counter play option (that isn't alwsys mf super counter) and an opportunity to mix up the opponent with timing or high/low.
Aye I mess with you well thought out comment with that fire analogy! You’re def right that supercounter basically beats everything and they should tone it down a little in a perfect world. I’m just scared they touch it and ruin the mechanic like alot of games do when patching things. Always nerf it into the ground
Nothing wrong with being defensive, thats perfectly fine, but super counters do feel extremely easy to pull off, and I even mean that for myself. I dont have any REASONABLE solutions to super counter, so I wont even waste my time, but the shit is mad annoying tho. Nothing wrong in my eyes making it harder, that just asks the player base to study and lab more, I dont want to give any thing to ppl that dont want to work to get better. This dont have to be SF, but nothing wrong with asking for a bit more skill….since we wanna talk about lore accurate, most niggas in DB, DBZ, DBS and even GT worked they ass off and trained and labbed to get good and get hands, so I think we as players could do the same. W video still tho, regardless ima play the game, but this shit feel too easy sometimes.
@@Dredabeast95 you on ps5? We should play man I need some sparring partners to get better other than toxic ranked. I think it should be more clear like which method of super countering is best. Other than that I don’t have a big issue. NGLLLLLL I have noticed my rush chains have been getting super countered every two seconds
@ Yo Pres id be honored frfr. Yea im on ps5, we deff can spar, because I really want to learn 💪🏾 Let me know when, or if I need to wait till next stream, I gotchu 💯
I wish super counters had frame perfect timing otherwise you’d go on cooldown.. you don’t land it you didn’t get the timing right no gray area it is very annoying once you hit a certain rank and can’t even get 2 hits off on a person
I mean supposedly it does but obviously it’s pretty wonky lol. I think maybe showing an icon that you can supercounter would be good so we have more info about our resource because if there is technically a cool down then super counter is a resource
Morning dew from BT2 Agitation signs from Under Night Blue skies- paragonx9 where the songs I used! Which stellar blade song did the one I use in the video sound like? I would love to know!
I personally think there needs MORE information to the player. It should NOT be a guessing game. You need to know you're failing. You need to understand what it is you're doing, instead of just mindlessly mashing. I think it needs a LOCKOUT. If you are mashing it, you need to be straight up locked out of it longer. The fact here 2:18 he is telling us multiple ways to Super Counter (which to me is bogus because I've NEVER gotten a held counter off) is why I think Practice mode needs to be straight up UPDATED because they listened to me(and players of course) about at least keeping the last saved Opponent Setting as you wait in ranked. 4:04 he mention chains and another thing is in this patch smashes are now able do this seamlessly mid chain. I think in Practice there needs to literally be a super counter practice mode, where you are given VISUAL CUES like "hit the input here". If you ever played For Honor and experienced that Practice Mode you'd understand what I mean. It's so desperate we need more information as players as to what we can use, when we can use it. It shouldn't be me thinking I'm fucking terrible one game and making progress the next because I got lucky..I shouldn't be getting lucky or even starting to desperately mash. It's kinda silly they don't have this IMHO. It's why players are so frustrated, I feel like most including myself get it, but at the same time DONT because we have no way to properly train it, besides asking people to play with us and get in the lab. The opponent settings are really not enough, there needs another one where it straight only super counters anything so you can practice countering THAT too. Man, Practice mode could give us SO much more. It's all we need
@@LaztheLax the game is definitely a roller coaster with if you feel like you’re getting better or not. Also completely agree with the training mode. I know it’s crazy to believe but I’ve done it on stream with holding up to super counter for like 3/5 seconds before pressing square. It’s hella wonky though
def agreed bro, super countering doesn't require a change. I believe the frames for it are 2 which is already a tight window. I say it all the time, sparking zero/tenkaichi is here to give the player base a dbz experience. Not necessarily a competitive one. So combos aren't going to be a thing like that (because they weren't in the show). The hype of the game is in the high speed interactions. Nerfing super counter would defeat that and alienate a large portion of the player base since now you have to be frame perfect. This aint SF lmao. w video though gang. keep em coming🤟
@@justcallmesage2279 well put bro. I love how you can’t fully combo in this game but super counters do pop up like crazy sometimes to the point I think it is a lil scripted
@@Prestiginii that's a fact. that's why i understood why people were saying it got easier post patch, even though its the same. i do be looking sometimes like either the game picking favorites or he really like that😭
Its hard to do the entire defense system is a challenge especially wen some characters fight fast asf any counter moves are hard asl to do for some reason
Super counters are good how they are. The ki changes they recently did were great. If they made a change I wouldnt mind them making back to back super counters faster the way the did vanish wars but even then Ive yet to meet someone who has been able to do more than 2 or 3 consecutively. What i really like about the changes is it makes defense more important than just running down your opponent now which leads to a lot of fight variation. Been fighting a lot of defensive players and it honestly makes the game more fun having to find openings. Its made playing defense almost as fun as playing offense. With the new update ive been winning a lot more games because I was focusing on learning all the defensive mechanics as this is my first fighting game ive played.
super counters dont need to be touched.combos falling off for no reason need to be fixed. and maybe a ki increase to perception use because perception spamming is a thing but even that doesnt bother me to much. but they do need to give non giant characters one ki bar super dragon dash back i hate that it cost two ki bars.
I think it’s fine more or less as it is. I think there’s a lot to think about with how even making one change to this game’s mechanics can change the whole meta. Changing Z burst significantly altered the meta and now you see a lot more passive play, instant transmission characters, and zoning BUT I’ve noticed that the patching of the old cheese has led to more character variety. People have got to remember that the old tenkaichi games had WAY lower damage output. This means that you could eat a few combos and still had a lot of health. In this game, that’s not true lol. The damage output in significantly higher. If you nerf super counter then people will likely play more passively and only attack when they’re sure they can get you from behind since that would be an almost guaranteed combo. With characters like MUI, Jiren, etc that’s like two touches and death. Also, this would reduce character variety. People would likely pick characters that hit really hard AND have a defensive mechanic like wild sense, explosive wave, afterimage. You may even see more ssb gogeta than we see now due to if you could land a combo after instant transmission it’s a wrap. Like you said, it’s more of a skill issue. I noticed today that if I’m mashing against the really good players at S rank they are CONSISTENTLY timing their super counters to get me either on the third hit of my combo or when I do a normal extension. I started switching up my charges and follow ups and that stopped. Finally, I think the real issues are perception, throw teching being too easy and possible during perception or from behind, and being able to mash vanish attack during someone’s combo. The latter is actually something the damn computer does if you set them to strong on training to break your combo.
great points but i think perception should be slightly patched. ever since the recent patch, players are just spamming it after combos or before engagements. it should cost 1/4 of a ki bar if you’re spamming it needlessly. i don’t use characters with AIS so i’m not mad in that regard but it kills the pace of the match watching my opponent strike a jojo pose every other button press.
Bro how easy does the game need to fucking get like holy shit they just nerfed the really scum shit in the game now u want something that actually takes skill to do and land repeatedly do to be nerfed and mad harder for no real reason but the fact u want to make the game easier to play
@@apexpredator9163ur trolling,you can mash super counter so easily when ur comboed everyone does it and it works the only time it takes skill is super countering in a vanish war
I think it's fine. It jus seems a lil inconsistent sometimes.Then, at other times, it is easy as hell to do. That may be due to the latency online. I never mash that shit tho. Like u said, if they do touch it, jus tweak the frames jus a lil bit. Like make it hardest to do in the beginning of a combo nd let it progressively become easier the longer the combo drags on. Similar to the vanish wars, but in reverse. I swear some people, me included, trigger that shit immediately when hit. It can become annoying with the passive defense heavy meta. I dont want them to touch it fr tho cause i kno they could completely fuck it up. Good content, tho bro. Real discussions wit no glazing. Keep it up!
Aye that’s a hella good idea man Ngl and I needed to mention the inconsistency because I really felt it today on stream lol. Thanks for the comment I love reading what everyone has to say!
AND YES I played against a couple people today where on god I couldn’t get past the 4th hit in my combo without getting super countered. That stuff kinda seems off
@Prestiginii Shit I love this game, man. Despite all the unbalances. It deserves to be great! On Toriyama, nigga! I also have to support the people of this community that's keeping it a buck. Keep grinding my g!
@@Prestiginiifr, I’m over here like okay so… they stopped you from getting behind ur opponent quickly, and now all we are doing is shooting ki blasts from far away, then if I finally outplay for a combo, instant super counter, rinse repeat
What i hate is the people that understand it cause that's some bull shit no way they looking at it and saying I see now and they all say yeah you just have to see a spark stfu
I super counter a lot on accident but vanish really well but super counter has a timing I struggle with my lag but some people are insane I fought a guy that super countered everything. He started trolling and flying around not punching just to super counter everything. I was impressed like I couldn’t touch bro s3 guy had my number. It was fun but it felt like fighting the main villian lol
Im ngl after the patch i can super counter easier but i think thats just me, however fighting? I somehow got worse like im stuck in the same place not moving or combos going into the held animation idk i definitely got worser somehow
@ The movement isn’t crazy in sparking zero, it’s snail pace throw out charged sword slash unblockables and run away. That’s optimal way of playing now.. its hot garbage.
@Prestiginii nah screw fixing it just remove it all together because if they just try to fix it someone's going to find a way around post it on UA-cam for everyone to see and rinse and repeat.
There are extremely very few players who have super counter mastered, and those are mainly PC players. Super counter reads easy at the first hit, but there isn't an exact window to use it. They tell you "just before you're hit" half the time that timing doesn't work. I seem to hit properly when I see the flickers, but that's only the first charge smash attack.
My best way I super counter is the way everyone was saying by inputting it like as you’re getting attack like right then their hand or leg makes contact with your body.
@Prestiginii true. I utilize this tactics as well. I get it 90% of the time offline than online. Same with vanish. It's easier offline to vanish now then before.
Super counters are annoying and inconsistent for me. So much so that I just dropped the entire thing and focused on vanishing, sidestepping, and perception. The day I stopped using super counters was the day I went up at least five ranks
That’s means when you learn learn super counters you’re gonna be a god!
Ngl he made a good point when he talked about you’re not supposed to be hitting no 50 hit combo every time
Yeah I used to be annoyed but it actually makes this game pretty unique
personally I agree that it should stay put as it is. It's honestly an accessible mechanic that prevents infinites and literally every character can do it. Just kinda seems like a lot of people saying super counter is too strong may just be doing the square button game
It’s a mix of both I have noticed my rush chains like the triangle moves get countered like crazy now. Idk if that’s a patch thing or community getting better thing
I'd say the only time it's a problem is when you can spam it when you're getting hit with rush chains. They need to make it more difficult to be triggered. Otherwise it's fine.
@@Genki.Z7 yeah that spamming during normal rush chains is wild sometimes man
I think it's great as a last resort. Recently I realized we get an entire skill bar after getting hit with a super. Rush chains make it increase kinda fast, too. Maybe reducing that would fix it for good
I disagree having super counter being as easy as it is and as free as it is encourages people to do unsafe moves without being punished. I think super counters are kind of scrubby. The real skill gap is playing neutral properly and not getting hit. If you break out of a combo, you need to use resources they should have just made revenge counters do what super counter does so at least it’s not free. it shouldn’t even take skill to break out of a combo. It should take skill to not get combo in the first place.
My opinion is that mashing super counter shouldn't work and when you are super countering eachother's super counter it should either speed up or eventually result in an event that resets the neutral.
I never mash on vanish wars I didn’t know people actually did that lmao
They should add a special clash for when people get back to back super counters. That would be lit as hell, especially with how rare it would be
Mixing up my combos and strings literally never seems to matter. I get super countered out of almost any combo beyond like 5 hits if I'm playing someone competent. My issue isn't even that in particular. It's the SC > Vanish war > neutral. SC > Vanish war > neutral. I really do not like fighting say.. a turtle UI goku, punishing wild sense 4 times, but each time he super counters me out of my third hit. I'm not even that high rank. I'm a rank, and people on pc seem to be ungodly super human good at them. And I have hundreds of hours into this game already. I don't mind a combo breaker, but SC feels SO obnoxious. Especially vs auto dodge character and on top of perception.
Imo Super Counter just isn't a fun mechanic. Feels bad on both ends. "WHY DIDNT MY COUNTER COME OUT!?" vs "WHY CAN HE RANDOMLY BREAK EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY 5 HIT STRINGS?"
@@OverweightFratboy just crashed out on my stream because of that playstyle bro. I completely AGREE that playstyle is toxic
@@OverweightFratboy your last point is also pretty valid but I think it’s just the weird 2 frame window that is way too inconsistent due to lag
Blame the shooty input delay every match. For some games I can sc consistently other games I can't even do one.
Its not a skill diff mechanic if you can mash it out..
If you can hit more super counters by not mashing it then it’s a skill diff my guy. Idk what else to tell you lol that’s like saying auto combos vs normal combos the same because you can just mash
@Prestiginii the fact it's mashable at all is the problem
Doesn’t disregard it’s still a skill gap if you can time it and get better results
They need to increase the timin between each press so you can’t spam it during rush chains so much.
This already exists
I don’t think it works properly during rush chains Ngl
@@cloudedless this
Keep in mind most opinions come from folks current set up at their own homes, but what I'm speaking of effects anyone who touches sparking zero, outside of pc.
All this super counter talk must be strictly PC, on Ps5 super counters are NOT all that. PC must have godly servers bc I can super counter the Ai like 5 times a row but online feels like everything is thrown out the window🤦♂️
@hbchillin1 you are experiencing exactly what I'm bringing out. Some dummy brain don't get it. He must be a PC user.
There are extremely very few players who have super counter mastered, and those are mainly PC players. Super counter reads easy at the first hit, but there isn't an exact window to use it. They tell you "just before you're hit" half the time that timing doesn't work. I seem to hit properly when I see the flickers, but that's only the first charge smash attack.
No, they tell you to activate it right as you get hit. Z Counters are the ones you have to time just before the hit lands
To be fair it is weird there is multiple ways of super countering. Not just pulling this out me bum
I think Super Counter needs to be tightened cause a lotta people will spam it and on someone who hits faster that option has a higher rate
However if it’s a slower hitting character spamming makes it really hard to land
Originally I felt like it should cost a resource but after the last patch I don’t feel like it’s as important
Offense < defense before
Offense ≠ defense post patch
I got my 2 cents but more importantly boss when are we boxing 🤔
We can tonight if you want! I agree with the fast slow thing I think that’s kinda weird that’s it’s so much different between the two
Yeah Super Counter is fine as is. If any change comes to it, just reduce the cooldown time window. But think its good as is foreal. Super Counter wars going back and fourth are so satisfying. What we REALLY should be talking about is super perception. not perception. Just Super perception. It takes the skill out correctly inputting a directional block when someone does a step in rush attack to continue their combo string. So you get super perception in the middle of combo for 1 skill point which is nothing in this game.
@@joelfadojutimi6557 perception is my next video you beautiful bastard!
Another random thought I had on perception is make the Ki drain rate much faster when using it to discourage people from holding it. In terms of spamming, make it take the same amount of ki it does for a vanish post or pre patch for initial press. Take your pick.
Perception needs fixxing 32 uses for 1 bar of ki, and it activates in 1/4th of a second and can be used infinitely when under 2 bars of ki. It needs fixxing.
Bt3 already figured out how to balance some stuff, sparking zero tossd out every single counterbalancing mechanic for some reason
I agree with perception. The ki drain needs to be faster imo.
I feel like there should be some penalty for spamming and window becomes tighter after doing so in succession. What's the point of having long combos in the game if you can never do them unless you play against a new player.
Maybe my issue stems from playing against cheese. I never have good opponents on this game. It's so bad, I get on rank, just to see who I need to block until I get someone who tryna throw hands. So far, straight spam gods and crabs
What are you playing at? PC? Because I would be super happy if I would be able to do 2 super counters in a row, the timing of it is already fu***d up, I still don't understand how they work constantly. They shouldn't be touched, it still feels like something that you need skill for it, it's not as easy as perception.
I’m on ps5. There’s a setting on consoles to plug in your controller and lower the delay. You have to put the option on though you just can’t plug in your controller and that’s how I play for minimal delay. I’ve hit lime 5-6 counters in a row pre patch but nothing out of this world
Heres my question how can u say behind ur screen that someone is mashing super counter between them actually putting in the practice to time the super counter. I think it needs a limit its basically a combo breaker, and combo breakers arent free of resources.
Yeah, I agree. It’s not the skill gap that people think it is. The real skill gap is not getting hit in the first place. They should’ve just made revenge counters function the way super counters do. it should be easy to break out of a combo, but you have to give up resources to do it
You're suppose to input super counter based on the tempo of your opponent. But to read the timing PROPERLY was never fully clear, to where everyone is mastering it. 85% of everyone still spamming super counter while theater 15 (onPC) mastered it on command.
Ima check him out I wanna be a super counter demon!
Great video, glad people are starting understand the mechanics a bit more. Super counters don't need a change, they are fine the way the are. Imo not too hard to do but not too easy to where scrubs can abuse, you need to put in time for value and that's great. Makes it so it's necessary in order to fill in that skill gap. Every fighting game has something similar, to where you need some type of skill to pull off a move for high reward and with SC it allows that, just wish the game tells you what the window is to input it so people don't have to guess and resort to spamming
@@Johnny_Salamii you’re right about putting in the time because I need to put in a lil more time with them. Some people are demons! I agree with wanting more info. Like is it truly better to mash it against fast hitting characters ? So many questions
@ I think it depends on the timing of when the opponent is inputing their rush attacks. For instance, if the opponent is doing square square square triange then you do the super counter right before that triangle. The reason why it could be so difficult is because characters have faster frames than other because they are faster in general. Like in my stream earlier I mentioned that I use BASE Vegito because people have a harder time predicting the super counter because of his slower rush attacks. But I could be wrong, just something I was thinking
Ima try out base vegito soon then because I’m bout to hit this z rank with buuhan
@ W
Super Counter and Perception need to be nerffed. Defensive play in this game needs to be knocked down a peg.
I agree with super perception! Supercounter I’m scared about devs touching because they always go too far
There needs to be a counter when you get knocked on the ground over and over. Super counters help when you're being punched repeatedly in the back and you can't break out.
You talking about the circle/B smash move after like a vanish war?
It’s pretty much for me I have to go to the person im fighting because they know they have the advantage but I’m z and this casual so I’m like Idc if you win I want style and have fun
I be like that on ranked that’s why I’m not Z anymore lol I’ll get back up there this week
I feel like the issue is that there are like 7 defensive mechanics, but they are all extremely skewed in terms of usefulness. So high-skill play often devolves into super-counter and vanish wars which feels monotonous. This is coming from someone who really likes defensive mechanics in fighting games and dislikes long, uninterruptable combo strings.
Yeah that’s why nerfing one of the only aggressive mechanics was crazy
super counters need to be harder
the only people defending this mechanic are the ones who rely on it
I don’t rely on super counters, I’ve been losing more than winning all week and I’m still defending the mechanic 🥲
I suck at it and dont rely on it but still want it to stay the same
Yeah no, sounds like you use a character with fast attacks (jiren, mui goku, ssj4 goge) and dont like that your button mashing can be countered. Super counter is already pretty hard on characters who have a normal attack speed
@@djspit8929 i main kale and caulifla
"slow" basic attacks get way more often super countered than thoose you called
Super countering a Mui, Gogeta blue or any caracter who has fast basic attacks is actually tough
Often i get super countered on hit one even if i just switched my pattern conpletly mid match
Thats just anoying and
@derstapel9782 thats objectively false. Super counter has a 4 frame window of activation, those fast attacks (jiren gets 6 punches off of one square/x press similar to the others i named) meaning one button press from them has multiple opportunities for one of those super counters to connect..whereas on a slower character like kale or caulifla whose button presses give one attack you actually have to time your input to match within a 4 frame attack window.
More simplified. One square press from jiren affords a 24 frame window to super counter, 2 presses doubles that window to 48 frames and so on. Essentially for every time a speedy character attacks their chance of getting super countered multiplies by 2-3x. Whereas slow characters like your mains have to actually be time matched to pull it off. You probably just feel that way because you fuse into kefla as soon as you can turning your 2 slow characters into 1 fast, easily super countered one
And dont deny that you fuse them, why would you pick 2 characters that fuse if that isnt your game plan. I.e...i read you like a book big dog before you even named your mains lol
I believe super counters are better than every defense. They are free
They beat everything literally everything.
I learned thru the bots that you can even super counter a super perception (when you hold b over a charged attack. And do a slow counter that normally is unavoidable.)
it’s probably the hardest frame input in the game but if a computer can do it that means it’s part of the game.
If you’re having trouble against someone who’s super countering too much
Guess what
You can’t super counter a super counter!!! Almost like a vanish war but even more badass.
Wait for your opponent to switch to vanish and then switch from super counter to vanish and it’s so much easier to win those little defense wars.
If you’re fighting someone who’s just holding perception and tossing away all your grabs. The best and only way is truly
The perfect smash
(Timing the charged melee and releasing it when you flicker so you teleport behind them.)
It gets past both super counter if they’re holding perception, perception can’t stop it it’s only avoidable by a vanish which even then people normally avoid it by accident because it’s so hard to avoid. And when people are focusing on perception, it’s basically free eats.
Overall though. You never want to only use one ability in your kit.
I’m gonna use smash bros as my reference.
Every character has a set of moves and you can only get the max potential out of a character by using ALL of their moves. (Specifically in smash, repeating moves would decrease their damage input and would force you to use new moves to refresh the damage inputs.)
I have no idea if this is applied to games like sparking zero but that concept of only being able to see the full potential by maxing your kit still applies more than ever for defense in sparking zero.
Never rely too much on one thing
That’s why I love your take on “it’s a skill issue.”
Every one is complaining that they are struggling and it’s really showing the boys from men.
If you can’t overcome the struggle then this game probably isn’t for you as the struggle is a part of the whole experience.
There would be no thrill without struggle.
It’s alright just need a longer cooldown so ppl can’t mash
Super counter needs to made easier. When you charge up a smash, you see the flickers, you super counter then, bandia messed this up, when they didn't repeat this during super counter or vanish war. You no longer see the flickers. If those flickers stayed every time during a charge smash or vanish war, to read super counter timing would be a lot clearer to see. Idc how much I train on super counter, I don't see myself mastering something you can't even read properly
Yeah no it doesn’t need to be made easier. People already mash super counter as it is. You’re just getting unlucky. Matter of fact it’s already easier considering it’s a 4 frame move while in BT3 it was 1 frame. Just get better
@forsaken7752 i want to input super counter correctly every time, not mash. I actually do get lucky in-game a lot. But I don't want to be a masher, I want to know the exact moment to press, is my point. So I do see multiple ways it could be made easier, and benefit everyone.
@ yeah and like I said before that’s just a skill issue. What YOU want doesn’t matter in this scenario since people WILL utilize the mechanic to the fullest. If you want to get better at timing it then practice learning the rhythm of attacks. Besides there are moments where you can time super counters such as smash attacks, lift strike heavies, vanish attacks, grabs, and rush chains. Just get good dude
@forsaken7752 we can run it, just to prove it's not a skill issue on my end. Idc for egos, you won't catch me trying to stroke my own.
@ you’re clearly personally insulted considering you’re asking to 1v1 me in games I don’t even play anymore. Like I said pal you can get better at super countering. The only thing stopping you is yourself and internet timing
Imagine Super Counter, Vanish, and Step are Rock, Paper Scissors. In the current iteration of the game, Rock beats everything. Completely. If you can do Super Counter instead of any other defensive option, you will do it because it is entirely risk free outside of the execution.
Imo they need to find a way to balance all 3 of these options to be closer to equal in terms of usage, particularly surrounding rush chains.
I have absolutely no idea what the right course of action to achieve that would be, or if it would even ultimately make sense to do, but some examples would be preventing super counter during certain points in a combo such as at the very end if it's a hard knockdown or during a heavy attack that staggers, but the player is able to use another defensive option to compensate. This would hopefully facilitate mix and reads over super counter spam.
TL;DR This game needs to take a page out of FighterZ and give everything both a viable counter play option (that isn't alwsys mf super counter) and an opportunity to mix up the opponent with timing or high/low.
Aye I mess with you well thought out comment with that fire analogy! You’re def right that supercounter basically beats everything and they should tone it down a little in a perfect world. I’m just scared they touch it and ruin the mechanic like alot of games do when patching things. Always nerf it into the ground
Nothing wrong with being defensive, thats perfectly fine, but super counters do feel extremely easy to pull off, and I even mean that for myself. I dont have any REASONABLE solutions to super counter, so I wont even waste my time, but the shit is mad annoying tho. Nothing wrong in my eyes making it harder, that just asks the player base to study and lab more, I dont want to give any thing to ppl that dont want to work to get better. This dont have to be SF, but nothing wrong with asking for a bit more skill….since we wanna talk about lore accurate, most niggas in DB, DBZ, DBS and even GT worked they ass off and trained and labbed to get good and get hands, so I think we as players could do the same.
W video still tho, regardless ima play the game, but this shit feel too easy sometimes.
@@Dredabeast95 you on ps5? We should play man I need some sparring partners to get better other than toxic ranked. I think it should be more clear like which method of super countering is best. Other than that I don’t have a big issue. NGLLLLLL I have noticed my rush chains have been getting super countered every two seconds
@ Yo Pres id be honored frfr. Yea im on ps5, we deff can spar, because I really want to learn 💪🏾 Let me know when, or if I need to wait till next stream, I gotchu 💯
I wish super counters had frame perfect timing otherwise you’d go on cooldown.. you don’t land it you didn’t get the timing right no gray area it is very annoying once you hit a certain rank and can’t even get 2 hits off on a person
I mean supposedly it does but obviously it’s pretty wonky lol. I think maybe showing an icon that you can supercounter would be good so we have more info about our resource because if there is technically a cool down then super counter is a resource
But dawg, when I dont mash it, i get hit with the craziest combo into the strongest super they can think of.
@@swankyjee it depends on so many factors man like the speed of the characters mash, if you’re in a vanish war, and others
Bro got that stellar blade music
Morning dew from BT2
Agitation signs from Under Night
Blue skies- paragonx9 where the songs I used!
Which stellar blade song did the one I use in the video sound like? I would love to know!
@@Prestiginiiit doesnt sound like anything from stellar blade, not a one song. 600 hours played...trust me
I have a love hate relationship with super counters ngl. Don't think it should be touched tho.
I personally think there needs MORE information to the player. It should NOT be a guessing game. You need to know you're failing. You need to understand what it is you're doing, instead of just mindlessly mashing. I think it needs a LOCKOUT. If you are mashing it, you need to be straight up locked out of it longer.
The fact here 2:18 he is telling us multiple ways to Super Counter (which to me is bogus because I've NEVER gotten a held counter off) is why I think Practice mode needs to be straight up UPDATED because they listened to me(and players of course) about at least keeping the last saved Opponent Setting as you wait in ranked.
4:04 he mention chains and another thing is in this patch smashes are now able do this seamlessly mid chain.
I think in Practice there needs to literally be a super counter practice mode, where you are given VISUAL CUES like "hit the input here". If you ever played For Honor and experienced that Practice Mode you'd understand what I mean. It's so desperate we need more information as players as to what we can use, when we can use it.
It shouldn't be me thinking I'm fucking terrible one game and making progress the next because I got lucky..I shouldn't be getting lucky or even starting to desperately mash. It's kinda silly they don't have this IMHO. It's why players are so frustrated, I feel like most including myself get it, but at the same time DONT because we have no way to properly train it, besides asking people to play with us and get in the lab. The opponent settings are really not enough, there needs another one where it straight only super counters anything so you can practice countering THAT too. Man, Practice mode could give us SO much more. It's all we need
@@LaztheLax the game is definitely a roller coaster with if you feel like you’re getting better or not. Also completely agree with the training mode. I know it’s crazy to believe but I’ve done it on stream with holding up to super counter for like 3/5 seconds before pressing square. It’s hella wonky though
@@Vybnn I think just a lil tweak and we chillin tbh I know I said don’t touch it but that’s because the developer be going way too far.
def agreed bro, super countering doesn't require a change. I believe the frames for it are 2 which is already a tight window. I say it all the time, sparking zero/tenkaichi is here to give the player base a dbz experience. Not necessarily a competitive one. So combos aren't going to be a thing like that (because they weren't in the show). The hype of the game is in the high speed interactions. Nerfing super counter would defeat that and alienate a large portion of the player base since now you have to be frame perfect. This aint SF lmao.
w video though gang. keep em coming🤟
@@justcallmesage2279 well put bro. I love how you can’t fully combo in this game but super counters do pop up like crazy sometimes to the point I think it is a lil scripted
@@Prestiginii that's a fact. that's why i understood why people were saying it got easier post patch, even though its the same. i do be looking sometimes like either the game picking favorites or he really like that😭
Perception and super counter needs to b nerfed
Its hard to do the entire defense system is a challenge especially wen some characters fight fast asf any counter moves are hard asl to do for some reason
Super counters are good how they are. The ki changes they recently did were great. If they made a change I wouldnt mind them making back to back super counters faster the way the did vanish wars but even then Ive yet to meet someone who has been able to do more than 2 or 3 consecutively.
What i really like about the changes is it makes defense more important than just running down your opponent now which leads to a lot of fight variation. Been fighting a lot of defensive players and it honestly makes the game more fun having to find openings. Its made playing defense almost as fun as playing offense. With the new update ive been winning a lot more games because I was focusing on learning all the defensive mechanics as this is my first fighting game ive played.
how can something be strong if you can’t barely use it
super counters dont need to be touched.combos falling off for no reason need to be fixed. and maybe a ki increase to perception use because perception spamming is a thing but even that doesnt bother me to much. but they do need to give non giant characters one ki bar super dragon dash back i hate that it cost two ki bars.
Anyone know how to make my mic not sound like it blast lol?
I think it’s fine more or less as it is. I think there’s a lot to think about with how even making one change to this game’s mechanics can change the whole meta.
Changing Z burst significantly altered the meta and now you see a lot more passive play, instant transmission characters, and zoning BUT I’ve noticed that the patching of the old cheese has led to more character variety.
People have got to remember that the old tenkaichi games had WAY lower damage output. This means that you could eat a few combos and still had a lot of health. In this game, that’s not true lol. The damage output in significantly higher. If you nerf super counter then people will likely play more passively and only attack when they’re sure they can get you from behind since that would be an almost guaranteed combo. With characters like MUI, Jiren, etc that’s like two touches and death. Also, this would reduce character variety. People would likely pick characters that hit really hard AND have a defensive mechanic like wild sense, explosive wave, afterimage. You may even see more ssb gogeta than we see now due to if you could land a combo after instant transmission it’s a wrap.
Like you said, it’s more of a skill issue. I noticed today that if I’m mashing against the really good players at S rank they are CONSISTENTLY timing their super counters to get me either on the third hit of my combo or when I do a normal extension. I started switching up my charges and follow ups and that stopped.
Finally, I think the real issues are perception, throw teching being too easy and possible during perception or from behind, and being able to mash vanish attack during someone’s combo. The latter is actually something the damn computer does if you set them to strong on training to break your combo.
great points but i think perception should be slightly patched. ever since the recent patch, players are just spamming it after combos or before engagements. it should cost 1/4 of a ki bar if you’re spamming it needlessly. i don’t use characters with AIS so i’m not mad in that regard but it kills the pace of the match watching my opponent strike a jojo pose every other button press.
Iam so glad that you made this video! 👏
I just think super counter should cost 1 skill point if it breaks a combo.
Or increase the cooldown so u cant mash it
Bro how easy does the game need to fucking get like holy shit they just nerfed the really scum shit in the game now u want something that actually takes skill to do and land repeatedly do to be nerfed and mad harder for no real reason but the fact u want to make the game easier to play
@@apexpredator9163ur trolling,you can mash super counter so easily when ur comboed everyone does it and it works the only time it takes skill is super countering in a vanish war
I think it's fine. It jus seems a lil inconsistent sometimes.Then, at other times, it is easy as hell to do. That may be due to the latency online. I never mash that shit tho. Like u said, if they do touch it, jus tweak the frames jus a lil bit. Like make it hardest to do in the beginning of a combo nd let it progressively become easier the longer the combo drags on. Similar to the vanish wars, but in reverse. I swear some people, me included, trigger that shit immediately when hit. It can become annoying with the passive defense heavy meta. I dont want them to touch it fr tho cause i kno they could completely fuck it up. Good content, tho bro. Real discussions wit no glazing. Keep it up!
Aye that’s a hella good idea man Ngl and I needed to mention the inconsistency because I really felt it today on stream lol. Thanks for the comment I love reading what everyone has to say!
AND YES I played against a couple people today where on god I couldn’t get past the 4th hit in my combo without getting super countered. That stuff kinda seems off
@Prestiginii Shit I love this game, man. Despite all the unbalances. It deserves to be great! On Toriyama, nigga! I also have to support the people of this community that's keeping it a buck. Keep grinding my g!
@@Prestiginiifr, I’m over here like okay so… they stopped you from getting behind ur opponent quickly, and now all we are doing is shooting ki blasts from far away, then if I finally outplay for a combo, instant super counter, rinse repeat
What i hate is the people that understand it cause that's some bull shit no way they looking at it and saying I see now and they all say yeah you just have to see a spark stfu
You talking bout the people who mastered super counters?
"Anudder" hahaha
I super counter a lot on accident but vanish really well but super counter has a timing I struggle with my lag but some people are insane I fought a guy that super countered everything. He started trolling and flying around not punching just to super counter everything. I was impressed like I couldn’t touch bro s3 guy had my number. It was fun but it felt like fighting the main villian lol
W vid bro🔥🔥
🖤
Very easy fix, make it cost skill point
Im ngl after the patch i can super counter easier but i think thats just me, however fighting? I somehow got worse like im stuck in the same place not moving or combos going into the held animation idk i definitely got worser somehow
This video is FIRE!! 🔥
@@Jay-wi6wn aye thanks bro!
Great video 🎉
@MikasLtu thanks Z gogeta god
I still Be winning but it’s very annoying
Too many defensive mechanics in the game. Remove super counters .
W pressy
@@YungKev407 🖤
Nah but the movement is definitely ruining the game
This is how the last few games were y you complaining now the movement has always been crazy that what made ppl like the game but now is ruining it?
@ The movement isn’t crazy in sparking zero, it’s snail pace throw out charged sword slash unblockables and run away. That’s optimal way of playing now.. its hot garbage.
Take out super counters period that shit is just mad annoying
@@smananderson09 why?
@@Prestiginii it's just annoying cause everyone knows how to do it and it makes the game boring as hell
@@smananderson09 is there a way they could fix it for you without removing it? Always open to new ideas that’s why I’m asking!
@Prestiginii nah screw fixing it just remove it all together because if they just try to fix it someone's going to find a way around post it on UA-cam for everyone to see and rinse and repeat.
Is the problem that you’re not good at doing them but everyone you lose to is? Not trying to be an ass it’s a serious question.
There are extremely very few players who have super counter mastered, and those are mainly PC players. Super counter reads easy at the first hit, but there isn't an exact window to use it. They tell you "just before you're hit" half the time that timing doesn't work. I seem to hit properly when I see the flickers, but that's only the first charge smash attack.
My best way I super counter is the way everyone was saying by inputting it like as you’re getting attack like right then their hand or leg makes contact with your body.
Also pc had less built in delay so it’s easier there
@Prestiginii true. I utilize this tactics as well. I get it 90% of the time offline than online. Same with vanish. It's easier offline to vanish now then before.