How far can you talk on VHF UHF & GMRS handheld HT radios?
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
- Cutting through the myths and outright lies of how far you can talk on handheld radios. We dive right in and let you know what to expect and how conditions impact your communication. Tests were done with the Baofeng UV-5R, Quasheng UV-5K(8), Baofeng 5RM. Mercury Messenger Software (beta) And custom antennas which will be released on the market soon.
*** Special Note on Mercury Messenger! ***
Slated for general release in Late March/Early April 2024. Mercury Messenger is a fast secure digital messaging platform for radio communication. Allows for real-time texting and email style messages over radios. Powered by FLDigi, it will work with any UHF, VHF, or HF radio with external sound input/output. The initial release will only be available to subscribers of the Commodium Channel. Stay Tuned!
Radio Mobile Online: www.ve2dbe.com/rmonline_s.asp
USGS Topo Maps: ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/viewe...
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Special Acknowledgments:
www.vecteezy.com/
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illustrateai.designbundles.net/
George, Katie, and the rest of the tortured souls who endure me.
And yes that was me paddling the unicorn…... - Наука та технологія
Super nice video, im starting in this ham radio world and even when i thought i got the idea of a concept i found a new youtube video explaining in another way to understand it, THX so much for the masterclass chief
I really appreciate that! This is the exact reason I started my channel. There are so many pretentious videos out there with so much technical jargon it makes it either more confusing or off-putting. I try to cut to the point and explain what's going on in a relatable way. Sure it's not always 100% in line with the physics behind it, but it just makes the gist of a concept click a little easier to digest. Thank you so much! And let people know if you enjoy my content.
Probably the most succinct video on the topic. Well done. I'm amazed at how many people think they can just throw wattage at it and somehow get the signal there as though power is somehow magical. This does a great job explaining things.
A good followup would be teaching people about antennas and how they are frequently more important than the radio.
Thank you so much! And I have several antenna videos coming up, stay tuned!
@@Commodiumlooking forward to that
Great video. Height is indeed might.
As a Physics Freak since childhood (I'm in my 60's), and having taught College classes on the topic - I must say... your analogy @ 6:26 was very well done.
Subbed.
2 thumbs up.
Thank you so much! I appreciate my viewers and hope by sharing what I have encountered in my journey through radio, I can help others.
Great info. No BS, just the facts. I also carry a N9TAX roll up "J" pole when in the field. Great antenna for increasing the range. Looking forward to future videos.
Roll up J's are certainly convenient. Have such a long list of videos coming up! One of those on the list is portable field operations. Working on a rugged collapsible ground-plane design. I have a bunch of antennas that are going to be featured soon. All of these focus on rugged hard-core operation. Antennas you can use in the middle hurricane after being thrown out of a back of a cargo plane kinda rugged.
Nice smooth content! That was easy to understand. Keep'em coming!
I appreciate it!
Good job on this video! Very well presented. I’ve been able to talk at almost full quieting with my Yaesu FT 60, using a quarter wave antenna and tuned counterpoise just over 130 miles from a high point in Burnaby, B.C., Canada into a repeater K7LED on East Tiger Mtn in Washington state. Pretty cool!
Glad it was helpful!
Hi neighbor. I'm in Salisbury, MD. Excellent video, clear, to the point and well illustrated.
Thank you! Much appreciated!
Thank you for explaining, making the complex simple.
I try! There is so much that goes into accurately explaining radio propagation. I barely scratched the surface, but it gives a general gist.
This is the second video on this subject I've seen come out this week and it is in some ways better than the other one as it has better explanations and analogies. I'm glad to see more people debunking the claims over the manufacturers and sellers that HT can effectively communicate somewhere between 25 and 150 mi over any terrain including the inner city.
The analogies certainly help explain the physics, even though the oversimplifications don't 100% match the science. And in most cases, it doesn't need to. Especially if it helps someone get a general idea or sparks interest to learn more. The worst offenders of the distance claims are the "bubble pack" FRS. Yes, you could theoretically get those 28 miles on 1 watt (mountain top to mountain top) But not in real-world use cases. It just goes to further confuse new users or new people getting into the hobby.
I've managed 12 miles on my anytone 878 simplex so far from the inside of my second flor apartament with a Diamond RH-770 telescopic antenna, it also manages to hit the repeater 15 miles away, pretty happy with that. I'm new to the hobby, just got the licence.
That is great!
Simple and to the point. Great video!
Thank you!
I have made contact with family and friends via both UHF AND VHF while mobile up in Belfountain Ohio (highest point in NW Ohio ) back to Columbus Ohio. Both with 5-9 signals on both commercial and ham bands, full quieting.
Excellent
Excellent video The insane range claimed on frs/gmrs handhelds is very misleading.
Thank you so much! And yes it is. Sure those claims *may be* possible under the most ideal of conditions. But it gives new users a false sense of expectations and causes a few to abandon radio comms altogether. The bubble-pack FRS radios are the worst offenders!
This was very well explained, and adding those pictures really help with understanding what you were saying. Most of the time I don't want to hear about the labor pains, I just want to know if it's a boy or a girl, but here, diving in a little deep into the theory of this subject I think would be worthwhile. Keep up the great work.
I really appreciate your feedback! Thank you! I have a lot of more content being put together and will have more videos posted regularly. I am glad it helps others with their journey through radio.
@@Commodium If I could make a suggestion, a video on antenna's and what the whole db gain thing would be VERY helpful. I mean what's the real difference between a 3 or 6 db gain antenna, and why would I want one over the other. I heard an old radio man say onetime, that if he had $100 he'd spend $1 on the radio and $99 on the antenna., but he didn't go into detail how to spend that $99. Just a thought, and I'm looking forward to more videos from you. Thanks and keep up the great work.
Excellent video sir! No Bull,to the points,and I like how you threw plankton in there😆thanks
Thank you!
I’ve talked to the FM satellites and ISS with a handheld and it’s antenna. ISS is 230 miles away traveling at over 17,000 mph. That’s a topic for another day.
It is sooooo cool watching that thing buzz by. I can only imagine trying to track that with a yagi
@@Commodium Indeed. You also have to twiddle with the frequency to account for doppler effect. Looks like a fun experience but I haven't done it yet.
Same here! Definitely line of sight though.
great info without the extra crap. Thank You
Thank you! It's a fine line between explaining enough and too much :)
spot on great video for all to see
I appreciate it! More to come!
That explains a lot. Thanks!!
Glad it was helpful!
good video, thanks for posting.
Thanks for watching!
Well done..
Thank you!
Nice.
Verry nice!
Thank you!
Heyyyy i live down the road a few miles from Elmor!!!!
It's nice out that way. Quiet and great for playing radio!
Great content please keep teaching us noobs.
Thank you so much! I am glad you find my content helpful!
I was able to follow most of what you said. Good video. You had me until you were describing radio horizon. I've had a long day today. I'm not saying you were incorrect necessarily, I'm saying I may have dozed a bit. When I started years ago the guys always said, over average terrain you could likely count on 1 mile per watt over average terrain. That is in town, out of town, low hills, light tree cover on vhf. 1 mile per watt using handheld radios on both ends of the transmission. If you can use full size antennas, and or elevated antennas this coverage can improve. Besides Amateur Radio, the legal public access radio service where improving or changing antennas is legal, are GMRS radio service (UHF), and MURS radio service (VHF). Using one of these services you can easily use full sized antennas for increased range with that same handheld. I also want to add that any radio signal over any body of water, lake, or river, can produce improve distances between 2 handheld radios. The most common service of radios sold over the counter are in the Family radio service. (FRS) These are 2 watt UHF radio service sets that require no license and they share frequencies with the licensed GMRS service. The difference between the two services that with GMRS mobile sets can provide 50 watts, much better antennas, and there may be local automatic and unattended relay systems you can use for even more range. Amateur Radio does this and more on many more frequencies. But requires a license for each user. But you do get a unique callsign for each user. With Amateur Radio, radio operators can cover local, regional, or world wide coverage with each license class, including more available frequency spectrum per license. There are currently 4 license classes. There are fewer output power restrictions as well.
You had a long day and still managed to type all of that. Impressive.
I'm here in OHIO . West Central part. My hand held will go 30ish miles east and south. 40ish miles north. Mostly flat, lots of farm land. I'm east of the town I live it so the reach out west on the radio is 4 miles on a good day. Also I'll add. To get the far's I'm getting, my hand held are talking to 40 and 50 watt mobiles.
That is superb coverage! The area between Columbus and Dayton is great for radio propagation. Like you said mostly flat and open farm land. I used to travel just outside Columbus 2-3 times a month few years back for material. Have a few friends that live there as well.
@Commodium I'm in Darke Co. And can hit the Dayton , Sidney, and Celina repeaters .
Using a mag mount antenna.
@@metalworksmachineshop Having those repeaters with a little bit of extra height makes all the difference. Feet up = Miles Out
If you are operating in a fixed area, especially as a group, it is critical to get out and do some real-world testing. Theory is fine, but you must determine what your actual capabilities are. I have made contacts from the bottom of a canyon where the theory indicates that it is impossible, and I have been unable to make comms where it should be easy. I participate in monthly 2-meter simplex nets, and we have found that changing conditions (within a one-hour period) can drastically impact comms. We also found that sometimes changing frequencies by just a few kHz (say from 146.520 to 146.420) can also make a difference.
Amen! There are so many people on the youtubes wanting to preach from a soapbox about theory but no practical testing. Just because it works on paper or a computer simulation doesn't mean a thing when the time comes to use it.
I'm new to Ham radios. I do not have one. I found one that is 100 years old and works. It was from an army base. I'm thinking of purchasing but I only want it if I will be able to use it to talk to others. Do these have a repeater in them? I would need to to reach at least 3o miles.
All that would really depend on its operating frequency and modulation. But i can tell you some of that stuff is collectable and if you get it for the right price, you can’t go wrong. And no it wouldn’t have a repeater in it. But if it goes to 30mhz or lower, you can potentially talk hundreds or thousands of miles.
Preferably , the opposite of the radiating element .
We call that reflection point , GROUND . The element is the RADIATOR . With those to puzzle peices , you can transmit or receive for quite a distance .
There other parts to this puzzle , they didn’t ask what those other parts are .
Good luck .
If I run UHF is wide or narrow band better than the other nobody talks about this topic at all is narrow band good for VHF or is wideband good for UHF where is the proper time to change to wideband or narrow band way confused brother thank you for the video learning a lot
*From a purely technical standpoint, Narrow-band for either UHF or VHF would concentrate the power into a slightly tighter portion of the frequency spectrum.* The practical use of wide vs narrow however means everyone you intend to talk to would have to be on the same page. If you are on narrow-band they also would need to be on narrow-band and vice versa. If not the audio quality would suffer tremendously. Also if you are on a repeater you should be set for whichever bandwidth the repeater uses. 99% of the time is just set for wideband, but the repeater owner will know for sure which to use. Maybe I should do a video on wide vs narrow?
@@Commodium A video about wide vs. narrow would be helpful. As a ham from way back that has recently gotten back into the hobby, I notice that there are a few folks that are full quieting into the local repeater but have an audio level that's so low that they're not copyable without cranking up the volume knob on my radio. I suspect that they're using narrow on a wide bandwidth repeater.
That's definitely one of the symptoms. Wideband vs. Narrowband video coming up soon... @@335alien335
i mean i suppose arms length or so eh? ur gonna need to press the button
Hand held radios work best , when there is reflection to bounce off of .
Distance you can talk over the radio is measured in "fars".
That is 100% correct sir. In fact, I learned that from a follow youtube hobo
An example of my experience communicating on 70cm, 2m, 6m, and 10m fm with a ham showed that 10m cut through the forest/mountain terrain between us the best and 70cm was the worst. Stationary, we both were on hilltops about 25 miles apart. He was in the forest, higher elevation than me. Whatever was between us was more resonant at the lower frequencies with vertical polarization. This is 1 example that may not truly reflect overall results for a broader test field of forest mountain terrain. Pine needles are great at absorbing rf.
Antenna gain is important to mention. 10 and 6m was 1/4, 2m was 1/2, and 70cm was 2-5/8. Considerable more gain on uhf that still didn't push through.
Those lower frequencies can take a beating more that the smaller wavelengths can. It just depends on the area and the terrain. I have had similar scenarios where we were going 8.7 miles from one residence to the other. In between was a mix of fields and stands of trees, some houses and farm buildings. Going north VHF was unusable, UHF was crystal clear. *THEN from same location* Going East 7 miles over a salt marsh, houses, and through a pine forest, only VHF would make it. 70cm wouldn't even give a tail of static. Pine trees are the equivalent of a radio succubus!
With modern cell phones it's beyond me why anyone would want one.
Unless our CP uses satellite comms this two way radio will be a life saver when it comes to an emergency when cell sites go down (black out)
I have to disagree! Here, VHF is highly superior to UHF. I think you greatly underestimate the affects of trees / foliage!
Location is eveything! Location, location, location we say. (Height is the greatest factor in that location.) Ive been testing this since 1992. I noticed a big difference in UHF when i was working in West Texas back in 1999 - 2000.
In East Texas we have 75 - 100 foot trees everywhere, thick dense forests! Its normally wet and humid. During a rain and early mornings UHF takes a noticeable to huge reduction in range. VHF not so much. Moisture on the trees!
Another theory is the Pine trees. High sap content and the needles are roughly 1/4 wave length. I dont buy the 1/4 wave part. The entire tree is essentially grounded. Although there might be something to the needles. Not necessarily the 1/4 wave size but the fact Pine trees are covered in thin needles. Densely covered! To where many of the other trees with sap have a different shape, size and bigger gaps between the limbs essentially. To where Pine trees, for the most part its a solid thick blanket of thin needle! A SOLID screen! Almost a Faraday! And they are usually taller. Many here are 100 feet tall. Some even taller.
Any time its raining UHF suffers but doesnt seem to affect VHF much at all if any. Maybe slightly but usually not very noticeable. To where on UHF even just a slight drizzle will almost knock out stations that were a S5 before the rain.
Now what i do see is IF you have a Repeater that has some serious elevation then UHF seems to be ok. Greatly reducing the amount of trees / foliage it has to fight. But there again once the rain starts its greatly reduced!
Here, i can easily out range UHF with VHF any day!
No no, I don't advocate that UHF or VHF is superior to either. Every simplex link will be different. What works for you in one spot in Texas, may not work for Joe in Oregon, or Bill in Iowa, but I certainly feel your pain with the pine trees. Out here on the East Coast, we are loaded with them. Not quite 100ft, but hey everything is bigger in Texas right? I have to use VHF for some links and UHF for others. That's why it's so important to test. And you could not be more right on getting that antenna higher! (Quadrupling height equals to roughly double the distance in radio horizon)
@@Commodium yes yes! Agee 100%!
Yeah i thought at the end of the video your topics said other wise. My bad.
Normally you can see about double the signal strength on VHF as UHF here. But like you say certain locations even here UHF might perform better. Take D/FW for example, its a ton of 440 mhz repeaters out there! Concrete and steel! Not as many trees either and the ones they have are much shorter.
Around here, without a Repeater UHF is pretty limited. But UHF has its place. Like a buddy of mine who is studying for his Ham test. So in the mean time he got his GMRS and we talk some. But thats only about 1/2 mile. It works for that.
What has me puzzled about all of this is why its so much different here. I see videos and reports of GMRS on simplex talking 25 miles! See that blows my mind. But if you are on a mountain, clear line of sight, then yeah but they portray it as "normal" conditions. GRRRRRR!
Your video suggests 6.8 miles for a HT and that is out of the question here! I put up a Retivis Portable repeater (output is about 6 watts) on what i call a "imitation Comet GP9". Its a Jetstream Dual Band ground plane 17ft long with 11.7 dBd gain on 440 mhz. I run 50 foot of LMR-400, i had to drill a hole in the wall shoulder high and put a shelf up so the coax would reach it. Just to minimize feed line loss. On 462 mhz the SWR is low, not sure how the gain is affected though. Id assume increased but might not be the case.
Its on a 50ft push up pole. From my mobile, (antenna is a Browning 35 inch UHF with 5.5 dBd gain, thats what they claim). Im lucky if i get 6 miles range on it! And im talking hill tops! We have some slight rolling hills here and if you fall behind one you can forget it!
Ive drove all over, hit the hill tops and 6 .5 miles was the absolute maximum! Now my QTH is a low spot! 290 ASL. There are some hills over 500ft about 6.5 miles from me. Everything else is only 350ft ASL or less. As best i can tell, looking at Topo maps.
Now that being said, 50 foot puts the antenna basically right in the thickest part of most trees. So there again im thinking vegetation has a drastic affect on UHF. Especially when its wet.
The same applies to over the air tv signals. I lose uhf channels anytime it rains
@@johnlynch7834 Yeah to me UHF doesnt even come close to VHF! Ive read reports of unrealistic ranges but come to find out they were on a hill top in the desert! Here on UHF you are lucky if you get half the range of VHF.
What area are you located in? Reason i ask is ive got some theory as to why or things that affect UHF in my area. Im in Texarkana, TX.
Please don’t dig deeper. You might strike oil or an ancient burial ground. Godspeed.
"Taylor Swift under a steam roller flat" 😂😂😅
I would like to see TRUMP become President again !
When it comes to politics, I think the country has entered into area now where 40% are hard right, 40% hard left, and the 20% leftover for either better or worse are going to make the decisions for all of us.
WTF has that got to do with the subject at hand? I'm pretty sure he's not a ham and he doesn't give to hoots about RF propagation.
Because youre in a codependent relationship with a gaslighting government, which counts on your knee-jerk, slack-jawed,,beaten-wife psychosis.
Me top
He can’t win a 3rd time. 😂