I just finished building this unit, almost exactly to your spec. I used a NEMA 23, with and all in one driver/speed control. I had to add a small tension wheel as I didn’t get the center to center dimension exactly right. The tensioner works great!
Fair play mate, takes a lot of balls and dedication to do what you did and video it. It's the easiest thing in the world to find holes in other peoples work. I can see that you have been told about cable colours etc but make sure the frame is earthed with the Chinese psu strapped to it. You don't wont a belt. Double check this, on the first vide, when you were machining the pully, it looked like the lathe chuck had a but of back and forth slop in it, once the tool came off from facing the work. I totally enjoyed the videos and it has inspired me to do the same to my mill. Thank you very much!
great video. I have just assembled and tested my electronics now I need to mount the stepper on my machine which is the axminster version of your mill. thanks again.
The "crash" at higher RPMs is from the stepper motor running out of voltage. Two motor specs are key here: the winding resistance, which is 0.95 Ohms, and the inductance, which is 5.2mH. With a 12V power supply you can theoretically pump >12A into each winding, but the 5.2mH inductance will require >2ms for the current to rise to 4.9A each step. Basically, if you double the power supply voltage you'll double the RPM at which full torque is still available, just don't get too close to the maximum rating of the stepper controller. BTW - I just got a PM-727M which appears to be very similar to your mill and it didn't take me long to figure out that both the x and z axis' need a power feed!
Now I know why the one I’m using on my lathe’s power feed ‘crashes’👍👏 Need to get hold of a 24v psu now and slowly increase voltage until ‘crashing’ stops, within reason of course. Spent ages trying different settings on the controller, all with zero effect😡 So simple🤔🤗😮
@@geoffhalstead1811 I bet it only takes a few volts more to prevent stalling, but go with a PSU rated for the next higher voltage up of the most commonly available values (12V, 15V, 24V, 28V, 36V) anyway to keep the price reasonable.
@@allpraisebob Thanks for the pointer as it’s the first time I’ve played with steppers. I have a video showing my delight of mastering the wiring a few years ago🤗 ua-cam.com/video/vYQla5Z5sVE/v-deo.html An ambulance to hospital July 2019 for a balloon insertion into main artery, and needing CPR during the procedure, put the brakes on activity 😡 Thankfully I now feel totally reconditioned🙏
Hi,I'm really impressed with your work and ordered a cast iron x and y table to do the same, I've tried to follow your link for your website and also where you said the drawings are but neither are working, could you please tell me if they are still up and running. Kind rgds
I didn't understand why use all this to move the axis. Do you want to convert in the future as a CNC machine? wasn't it enough for you to put a dc motor and a speed controller?
It's going very well! Perhaps you can keep the junction box just for controls (with space left for Y and Z axis controls too - and perhaps E-stop controlling them all). Then find a much bigger box which you can set up with one big DC power supply, and the three stepper drivers, and perhaps a fan and filter to keep it all cool. Then it can all be driven by one kettle-type lead, and be behind or underneath the machine. The only bit you need within reach is the control themselves and they should all fit in that white box. I'll keep this video for reference, because I'll be doing something like this to my mill some time soon, and it's always better to have a bit of reference material :) (I also have TommyGun Machining's videos, and Stefan Gotteswinter's videos, and others). The only other thing is you might want to swap from solid core cable to braided at least for the run that goes from the stepper controller to the stepper motor, since that'll be moving about continuously and you might get a broken wire. Loving these videos - and very glad I found the channel. Cheers! Craig
Great job. I could use a parts list also especially the gear set up. Ratios, part numbers, etc. One small comment and it's not judgemental... Using your milling machine to assist in tapping makes things easier and more accurate. Takes a little more time. Center punch in milling head above your work helps hold the hand tap perpendicular to the hole to be tapped. Excellent job.
Hi, I've added more information to the parts list in the description of the first video along with links to the exact pulleys and belt I bought. I need to get a new set of taps. The set i currently have doesn't have a center hole in the end for using a punch as you suggested. Thanks
I know. This was one of my first times using a lathe and I didn't get the pulley set up very well when I faced it off. One day I'll re do it but for now it work ok. Just does look very good. Thanks for watching
When mounting wired components outside of a cover its always best to put the cable entry at the bottom, the reason is that any liquid spilt be it water, cocacola, beer or in the case of the mill coolant will run down the cable and straight into the transformer and BANG. With the wires at the bottom the liquid will do the same but cannot flow upwards if you created a slight U in the cables before they enter at the bottom. Regards the crash, apart from upgrading the power supply as mentioned you can play about with the gear ratio you have between the pulley sizes on the motor and leadscrew, bearing in mind that steppers tend to lose torque the faster they go.
Very helpful thank you good sir! One small question. With the three position switch you added in to replace the original direction switch, does the center position of that switch also stop the motor so it's like forward, stop and reverse?
@@mrmechanical3423 i am considering arduino uno to do some logic. Can you help regarding that? Or any other way to do samething. What kind of microcontroller you are using?
A lot of your problems are because the stepper motor is larger than needed. The stop/start of the motor at each step, when moving slowly, introduces vibration in other parts. Spring tension in the drive belt might help, but a smaller motor would improve matters. And would probably run faster! (lower inductance). I note that you use the main power switch to remove power from the motor- needed to allow hand operation. Results in a delay on start, as the controller powers up. A relay, switching power to the motor alone, and engaged whenever a direction is selected, would give a single control without delay. A 'full speed' button (for returning the bed) is normal on power drives.
Been watching a number of u tube and now member of round colum mill...any thought of using a magnetic clutch to engage and disengage power feed..am a machinist time to retire so home shop time
@@miguelcastaneda7236 no clutch is needed if a stepper motor is used. Most drivers have an 'enable' line, that removes motor power. If not enabled unless actually driving, the hand wheel can be used at any time. Simple, easy, and effective - see my channel for details.
How many amps does the power source need to be, I have a 12 volt dc - 10amp power source, is that enough or too much? Again newbie to this kind of electronic devices, sorry for the million questions lmao, thanks!
@@mrmechanical3423 hooked it up as per your diagram but motor not move, Step Driver green light flash, lights come on potentiometer controller 😕, i did run power to potentiometer controller, cant make out your video good enough to double check my wiring😧 my kinda luck
nice hands on vid. may I ask some more information of the drive electronics, how did you select the right range, and may I ask the make and wher you bought it please
Hi Bart. To be honest I didn't adjust the range. I just wired it up and tried it. However I probably need to play around with the settings to prevent it from stalling at higher speeds. All the electronics are linked in the description. Which part are you looking for in particular?
I don't think that your main cables to the stepper motors using domestic single core single strand cable will last long before you get a breakage. The copper will work harden with the motion of the table X axis and will fail sooner rather than later. You need to get some multi strand cable for that sort of application to prevent the work hardening. I don't know why thin strands of copper don't seem to work harden like thicker diameters do. Perhaps a metallurgist can tell us!
Nicely done, how does it feel if you hand wind the feed without the motor running, do you have to disengage the motor drive or is the resistance to turning acceptable?
Yes your right. Just done some research and for domestic wiring the colour would be as you said. I have used the colours the wrong way around. Sorry I'm not an electrician. Thanks for pointing it out. Learn something everyday
@@mrmechanical3423 No problem i love your videos by the way the only problem is its costing me a fortune buying all the parts to do mine haha ill be on to the Car videos in a bit ,do you have plans to work to for it?
Oakmeadows I glad I'm not the only other one screaming at the screen! One thing I will say is that he said he was using the switch to cut the negative power to the controller and yet it was still blue which it should be lol so has he cut the positive power or the negative? If it's blue then he is cutting the positive side as he should even though he called it the negative!
Great vid. Just a quick pointer though. You’re using blue as your live and brown as your neutral. That’s fine if it’s only you that’s ever going to use it, but can be confusing / dangerous for anyone else working on it, for instance, if you sell it on or someone copies your idea. Sorry about being negative, but I think many would agree.
The only place where the colour of the wires matters is AC input on the 12V power supply. It matters on some power supplies which terminal is connected to line and which is connected to neutral AC mains. On other power supplies it does not matter. Now, it looks like the power cord he used has yellow and black wires. Do you think he connect those correctly to the power supply?
Thanks for making this video. On the stepper controller/ potentiometer, do you have the pins on the high, medium, or low pins? If the potentiometer is turned off all the way, does the motor still continue to move? Thanks again - Eric
I'm glad you benefited from it. I'm using the medium pins. If I turn the potentiometer right down the stepper motor actually stalls (stops) but not as it should. I have marked min and max speed on the dial to avoid stalling. I have a switch to stop the motor completely.
Solid house wire is not the best choice for this type of instalation due to vibration, its now banned here for new instalations. Also brown should be live/+ and blue is nuetral/- , being its not 220-240v alternating current it doesn't matter too much, I have a very similar mill but with the HBM label on it and I'm getting things together to do the Z axis but i might hold off and get a ballscrew and do it all in 1 as i want to cnc it eventually.
This is very dangerous even at 12 volts DC. You are building an electronic control for a milling machine, well noted for throwing metal everywhere and sometimes in places where it shouldn't be. Meaning your open power supply and controller. They should be well away from the machine, in an enclosed box of their own. Never use solid wire where you expect it to move. Stranded is much better suited for the purpose, and the more and the finer the strands making up the conductor the better. They flex better. I know you're a better machinest than indicated here, but my engineering heart just did a double flip and not in a good way.
As a continuance, which I hit the return before I was ready. You might try running the motor at 24 volts dc or even 48 volts dc. When you slow the motor down to where you were getting the grinding noise, that's due to loss of torque, in which stepper motors are noted for at slower speeds, if not enough voltage is applied to move the motor at slower speeds. My suggestion would be to gear the drive for your cross feed down so that your motor is still running at a high rate of speed but your travel is actually running slower. You can also do this with changing your belt pulley sizes, but by gearing, down you can also gain torque on your cross feed while actually going slower. Think about it.
@@charlesriechers6241 It is not grinding- just at the low speed you can hear the steps! The stop and start at each step can induce vibration in attached parts. A flexible coupling (slacken the belt, put spring loaded roller in the path...) One of the problems of using stepper motors (but it does avoid needing a clutch), especially if they are over-specified for the task. X axis drive requires surprisingly low power.
I just finished building this unit, almost exactly to your spec. I used a NEMA 23, with and all in one driver/speed control. I had to add a small tension wheel as I didn’t get the center to center dimension exactly right. The tensioner works great!
Fair play mate, takes a lot of balls and dedication to do what you did and video it. It's the easiest thing in the world to find holes in other peoples work. I can see that you have been told about cable colours etc but make sure the frame is earthed with the Chinese psu strapped to it. You don't wont a belt. Double check this, on the first vide, when you were machining the pully, it looked like the lathe chuck had a but of back and forth slop in it, once the tool came off from facing the work. I totally enjoyed the videos and it has inspired me to do the same to my mill. Thank you very much!
Thanks from r your comment!
Excellent work!
great video. I have just assembled and tested my electronics now I need to mount the stepper on my machine which is the axminster version of your mill. thanks again.
The "crash" at higher RPMs is from the stepper motor running out of voltage. Two motor specs are key here: the winding resistance, which is 0.95 Ohms, and the inductance, which is 5.2mH. With a 12V power supply you can theoretically pump >12A into each winding, but the 5.2mH inductance will require >2ms for the current to rise to 4.9A each step. Basically, if you double the power supply voltage you'll double the RPM at which full torque is still available, just don't get too close to the maximum rating of the stepper controller. BTW - I just got a PM-727M which appears to be very similar to your mill and it didn't take me long to figure out that both the x and z axis' need a power feed!
Thanks Jeffrey. I'll have a look into this!
Now I know why the one I’m using on my lathe’s power feed ‘crashes’👍👏
Need to get hold of a 24v psu now and slowly increase voltage until ‘crashing’ stops, within reason of course.
Spent ages trying different settings on the controller, all with zero effect😡
So simple🤔🤗😮
@@geoffhalstead1811 I bet it only takes a few volts more to prevent stalling, but go with a PSU rated for the next higher voltage up of the most commonly available values (12V, 15V, 24V, 28V, 36V) anyway to keep the price reasonable.
@@allpraisebob
Thanks for the pointer as it’s the first time I’ve played with steppers.
I have a video showing my delight of mastering the wiring a few years ago🤗
ua-cam.com/video/vYQla5Z5sVE/v-deo.html
An ambulance to hospital July 2019 for a balloon insertion into main artery, and needing CPR during the procedure, put the brakes on activity 😡
Thankfully I now feel totally reconditioned🙏
You should definitely use a higher voltage PSU. On my CNC I run the NEMA 23 at 45V. With a NEMA 34 and that driver you'll be fine at 60V.
Brilliant!
Great video!!! you cross a lot of problems to get your project finished. Please sharing your tweaks. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Sam.
Questions please:
Can you still use the hand wheel with stepper in place?
What pulleys/belt did you use?
Hi,I'm really impressed with your work and ordered a cast iron x and y table to do the same, I've tried to follow your link for your website and also where you said the drawings are but neither are working, could you please tell me if they are still up and running. Kind rgds
I was waiting to see how you mounted the forward/reverse rocker switch with wires already soldered to it. :)
I didn't understand why use all this to move the axis. Do you want to convert in the future as a CNC machine? wasn't it enough for you to put a dc motor and a speed controller?
It's going very well!
Perhaps you can keep the junction box just for controls (with space left for Y and Z axis controls too - and perhaps E-stop controlling them all).
Then find a much bigger box which you can set up with one big DC power supply, and the three stepper drivers, and perhaps a fan and filter to keep it all cool. Then it can all be driven by one kettle-type lead, and be behind or underneath the machine. The only bit you need within reach is the control themselves and they should all fit in that white box.
I'll keep this video for reference, because I'll be doing something like this to my mill some time soon, and it's always better to have a bit of reference material :) (I also have TommyGun Machining's videos, and Stefan Gotteswinter's videos, and others).
The only other thing is you might want to swap from solid core cable to braided at least for the run that goes from the stepper controller to the stepper motor, since that'll be moving about continuously and you might get a broken wire.
Loving these videos - and very glad I found the channel. Cheers! Craig
Hi Craig. Good idea about keeping the smaller box for the controls 👍.
I'd like to put some limit switches on it too eventually, as well as an e-stop
@@mrmechanical3423 Great idea with the limit switches. Thanks for the reply. Look forward to the next video in the power feed series. Cheers, Craig
Great job. I could use a parts list also especially the gear set up. Ratios, part numbers, etc. One small comment and it's not judgemental... Using your milling machine to assist in tapping makes things easier and more accurate. Takes a little more time. Center punch in milling head above your work helps hold the hand tap perpendicular to the hole to be tapped. Excellent job.
Hi, I've added more information to the parts list in the description of the first video along with links to the exact pulleys and belt I bought. I need to get a new set of taps. The set i currently have doesn't have a center hole in the end for using a punch as you suggested. Thanks
@@mrmechanical3423 If your taps have male centres you can centre drill a piece of silver steel and use that, no need to harden. Cheers.
Your stepper pulley behind the hand wheel seems to be a bit wobbly.
I know. This was one of my first times using a lathe and I didn't get the pulley set up very well when I faced it off. One day I'll re do it but for now it work ok. Just does look very good. Thanks for watching
When mounting wired components outside of a cover its always best to put the cable entry at the bottom, the reason is that any liquid spilt be it water, cocacola, beer or in the case of the mill coolant will run down the cable and straight into the transformer and BANG. With the wires at the bottom the liquid will do the same but cannot flow upwards if you created a slight U in the cables before they enter at the bottom.
Regards the crash, apart from upgrading the power supply as mentioned you can play about with the gear ratio you have between the pulley sizes on the motor and leadscrew, bearing in mind that steppers tend to lose torque the faster they go.
Very helpful thank you good sir! One small question. With the three position switch you added in to replace the original direction switch, does the center position of that switch also stop the motor so it's like forward, stop and reverse?
Hi, the middle position ofmy three way switch actually also does forward or reverse, I can't remember which.
@@mrmechanical3423 Ok thanks. I think I'll have to run the middle position to control the start stop button. :)
Hey man nice work. I am trying same thing. But i am not a programmer can you help me with it?
Certainly, I'll help where I can... However no programming is required for the setup I have.
@@mrmechanical3423 i am considering arduino uno to do some logic. Can you help regarding that? Or any other way to do samething. What kind of microcontroller you are using?
@@SVMistry I'm just using a pulse generator.
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07VHLS1DN/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_HeTTFb8JCT4GX?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
A lot of your problems are because the stepper motor is larger than needed. The stop/start of the motor at each step, when moving slowly, introduces vibration in other parts. Spring tension in the drive belt might help, but a smaller motor would improve matters. And would probably run faster! (lower inductance). I note that you use the main power switch to remove power from the motor- needed to allow hand operation. Results in a delay on start, as the controller powers up. A relay, switching power to the motor alone, and engaged whenever a direction is selected, would give a single control without delay. A 'full speed' button (for returning the bed) is normal on power drives.
Been watching a number of u tube and now member of round colum mill...any thought of using a magnetic clutch to engage and disengage power feed..am a machinist time to retire so home shop time
@@miguelcastaneda7236 no clutch is needed if a stepper motor is used. Most drivers have an 'enable' line, that removes motor power. If not enabled unless actually driving, the hand wheel can be used at any time. Simple, easy, and effective - see my channel for details.
How many amps does the power source need to be, I have a 12 volt dc - 10amp power source, is that enough or too much? Again newbie to this kind of electronic devices, sorry for the million questions lmao, thanks!
I'll check my transformer when I'm in the shed tomorrow. Can't remember off top of my head
@@mrmechanical3423 thanks!
Just checked and my power supply is just 8.5amps.
@@mrmechanical3423 hooked it up as per your diagram but motor not move, Step Driver green light flash, lights come on potentiometer controller 😕, i did run power to potentiometer controller, cant make out your video good enough to double check my wiring😧 my kinda luck
@@honeycuttracing double check that you have the correct wires paired on the stepper motor and that it's wired to the stepper driver correctly.
nice hands on vid. may I ask some more information of the drive electronics, how did you select the right range, and may I ask the make and wher you bought it please
Hi Bart. To be honest I didn't adjust the range. I just wired it up and tried it. However I probably need to play around with the settings to prevent it from stalling at higher speeds. All the electronics are linked in the description. Which part are you looking for in particular?
I don't think that your main cables to the stepper motors using domestic single core single strand cable will last long before you get a breakage. The copper will work harden with the motion of the table X axis and will fail sooner rather than later. You need to get some multi strand cable for that sort of application to prevent the work hardening. I don't know why thin strands of copper don't seem to work harden like thicker diameters do. Perhaps a metallurgist can tell us!
Yea I think I will revisit the power feed in the near future and make a few improvements. Thanks for the comments
Bend radius, stress and the heat caused by bending contribute to the work hardening. Imho
Nicely done, how does it feel if you hand wind the feed without the motor running, do you have to disengage the motor drive or is the resistance to turning acceptable?
@kevin Thompson the resistance isn't bad at all. I had worried about this but it turned out great.
Hello great video but did you make a mistake at time 14.17 you said Brown in negative and Blue is positive shouldnt it be the other way around
Yes your right. Just done some research and for domestic wiring the colour would be as you said. I have used the colours the wrong way around. Sorry I'm not an electrician. Thanks for pointing it out. Learn something everyday
@@mrmechanical3423 No problem i love your videos by the way the only problem is its costing me a fortune buying all the parts to do mine haha ill be on to the Car videos in a bit ,do you have plans to work to for it?
Oakmeadows I glad I'm not the only other one screaming at the screen! One thing I will say is that he said he was using the switch to cut the negative power to the controller and yet it was still blue which it should be lol so has he cut the positive power or the negative? If it's blue then he is cutting the positive side as he should even though he called it the negative!
@@airwolf08 I have a book for the chassis and suspension, drawings for the engine and the rest I'm designing
@@mrmechanical3423 cool where can i get it please
Hi again Mr Mechanic. Where did you buy the stepper motor and the controller from? LOL. At the end, it sounds like a steam train....
Hi Mick
There are links in the video description to the items I bought
I have a Nema 23 motor , do you think it would be powerful enough, or should I buy a 34?
Mitch
Hi Mitch what size machine are you wanting to fit it to?
Great vid. Just a quick pointer though. You’re using blue as your live and brown as your neutral. That’s fine if it’s only you that’s ever going to use it, but can be confusing / dangerous for anyone else working on it, for instance, if you sell it on or someone copies your idea. Sorry about being negative, but I think many would agree.
Thanks Don, yea I've had a few comments along the same lines. I'll swap them around some point in the future
The only place where the colour of the wires matters is AC input on the 12V power supply.
It matters on some power supplies which terminal is connected to line and which is connected to neutral AC mains. On other power supplies it does not matter.
Now, it looks like the power cord he used has yellow and black wires.
Do you think he connect those correctly to the power supply?
Ro K
In the case of yellow and black, the normal state is for yellow to indicate +be and the black to indicate neutral or ground.
Don Sides the question was whether he connected AC wires correctly to the power supply.
Thanks for making this video. On the stepper controller/ potentiometer, do you have the pins on the high, medium, or low pins? If the potentiometer is turned off all the way, does the motor still continue to move? Thanks again - Eric
I'm glad you benefited from it. I'm using the medium pins. If I turn the potentiometer right down the stepper motor actually stalls (stops) but not as it should. I have marked min and max speed on the dial to avoid stalling. I have a switch to stop the motor completely.
@@mrmechanical3423 awesome - thank you
Solid house wire is not the best choice for this type of instalation due to vibration, its now banned here for new instalations. Also brown should be live/+ and blue is nuetral/- , being its not 220-240v alternating current it doesn't matter too much, I have a very similar mill but with the HBM label on it and I'm getting things together to do the Z axis but i might hold off and get a ballscrew and do it all in 1 as i want to cnc it eventually.
Yea, I just used what wire I had around. I will replace it all as I also plan to do a CNC conversion.
This is very dangerous even at 12 volts DC. You are building an electronic control for a milling machine, well noted for throwing metal everywhere and sometimes in places where it shouldn't be. Meaning your open power supply and controller. They should be well away from the machine, in an enclosed box of their own. Never use solid wire where you expect it to move. Stranded is much better suited for the purpose, and the more and the finer the strands making up the conductor the better. They flex better. I know you're a better machinest than indicated here, but my engineering heart just did a double flip and not in a good way.
As a continuance, which I hit the return before I was ready. You might try running the motor at 24 volts dc or even 48 volts dc. When you slow the motor down to where you were getting the grinding noise, that's due to loss of torque, in which stepper motors are noted for at slower speeds, if not enough voltage is applied to move the motor at slower speeds. My suggestion would be to gear the drive for your cross feed down so that your motor is still running at a high rate of speed but your travel is actually running slower. You can also do this with changing your belt pulley sizes, but by gearing, down you can also gain torque on your cross feed while actually going slower. Think about it.
@@charlesriechers6241 It is not grinding- just at the low speed you can hear the steps! The stop and start at each step can induce vibration in attached parts. A flexible coupling (slacken the belt, put spring loaded roller in the path...) One of the problems of using stepper motors (but it does avoid needing a clutch), especially if they are over-specified for the task. X axis drive requires surprisingly low power.
Громоздкая конструкция, габаритная , завышенная мощность двигателя и пр. Глупое управление , для порчи деталей и фрез...☹