@@shadowopsairman1583 agreed. I look at bean counters like traffic cops. These car companies were formed and ran by engineers and car guys. When the eye gets off the product ( and this the customer) it goes to hell quick.. sears failed because Eddie Lampert was not a retailer. He was a finance guy. JCPENNEY is going the same route. GM wants to make crap and force you to subscribe to software services to drive your car. We need solid cars that are affordable, reliable and last 200k miles. Toyota and Honda and Mazda are building some. Throw in some honest dealers to sell and service the product . Detroit doesn't for the most part .
Similar story on a 2007 Mazda CX9. Gotta pull the intake manifold to get to those rear plugs and coils. There's a couple hoses and clamps that suck, and less room that what you have on that Kia. I feel your pain lol. Still not the worst thing I've worked on, and the motor runs great at 391,000 miles.
I've done hundreds of them. Intake just needs to come off. 2 line clamps for the coolant hoses to the throttle body. 4' extension with a swivel socket for those 2 brackets from under the car. Change the valve cover gaskets.... you're welcome
It's the same with my 1st gen Toyota Kluger (highlander in the US). I really should have replaced the plugs when I replaced the rocker cover gaskets. I just didn't have the money at the time, because I bought a very rough vehicle. All up it cost me a couple of thousand in parts and I did all the work myself. If I had to pay a mechanic, I would have sold the car as scrap. Lucky I like working on cars.
You have to wonder what the engineers are thinking sometimes. Like, is their goal to literally make it such a pain the, um, neck to work on that you just HAVE to take it to the dealer or mechanic or is there a truly legitimate reason? The Toyota Tundra pickup truck, for example, has the starter INSIDE the engine under the intake manifold. Not only is that a pain to replace, but I can imagine how unbelievably hot it must get which would lead to premature failure in all likelihood.
The space underneath the intake manifold is supposedly cooler than the regular locationdue to the latter's close proximity to the exhaust manifold especially in space constrained applications. it was probably not worthwhile cost-wise to deviate from that 1uz inherited design and move the starter back to its regular location.
The reason is because the engine is designed seperate from the car. The people who designed the engine do not know what car it has to be in, especially when the engine is used in multiple platforms. It is probably easy to work on it in a different vehicle.
@@justsomeone89 My dad had a 1962 Ford pickup truck with a straight six in it. There was so much room in the engine compartment that you could LITERALLY stand inside the engine compartment to change the spark plugs. It was ridiculously easy to work on. Although fuel injection, electronic timing and other modern engine components have overall improved the efficiency etc I do miss how easy they used to be to fix when something went wrong.
I almost guarantee an engineer told marketing that v6 in that package was a bad idea. Marketing said I don't care, do it anyway, the sucker should buy a new car before the plugs go bad anyway.
There are many vehicles that need the intake plenum removed to get to the other 3 spark plugs, Mitsubishi is a bad offender. Honda won't do it that way. Contrary to popular belief on Toyota V6's the rear plugs can be changed without pulling the plenum, but you need some education and the right tools.
You can have the plenum off a 2gr in 15 minutes. I promise you're going to be screwing around with extensions and wobble sockets longer than that trying to work around it
BMW N55 engine must take the intake plenum off to get at 1 bolt holding the oil filter reservoir housing which has a gasket that is prone to leaking. It leaks onto the alternator belt, causing it to slip off the harmonic balancer and wrap around the crank, bending the crank and destroying the motor.
@@firstlast--- For real. People get so intimidated by removing the plenum in transverse v6 cars like this. It's like, 6 or 8 bolts in most cases, and removing some hoses. Just take it off and save yourself some headache. Only thing id recommend is paying close attention to the amount of torque you're using when putting the bolts back in. And look at the gasket, make sure it's not broken.
Piece of cake. All in a days work at our shop. Usually the valve cover gaskets are leaking by 150k so the customer can save labor if you bid that job with a few tenths extra for plug replacement
This is the exact reason I will never buy a FWD V-6 car. Most all of them are brutal to get at the rear bank. In-line 4 only for me, as I do my own repairs.
Thank God that V6 carries plug wires instead of individual on-the-plug coil-packs. Having to detect a bad coil-pack (and they go bad) would be a nightmare on the rear cylinders ! In my country, that model of Kia Sportage came with a 4-cyl. 2000cc gasoline or a 4-cyl. 2000cc turbodiesel engines. Most of the later Nissan engines (MR & HR) carry an upswept plastic inlet plenum that covers the plugs. So, changing plugs is quite a chore, and detecting a bad coil pack is a mixture of know-how and dexterity using two screwdrivers to dislodge the harness-plug on the coil pack ! The modern engine has done nothing to reduce owner-expense nor simplify maintenance ! Trinidad & Tobago. West Indies.
The old jdm 2.5l V6 Camry that we had and passed on to one of the kids, is now 26 years old, has over 400,000km on it, and is still running the original plugs and water pump. I dont think Toyota build them like that any more.
Just found this. 71 retired drive a 2006 Subaru sti. Currently troubleshooting a po302 cylinder 2 misfire. Pita trying to narrow down. Engine is good, did a compression and leakdown test all good
Had the plugs on our '08 Sorento w/3.3L V6 replaced at a Kia dealership recently when it went in for front wheel bearing replacement and associated suspension repair. Had them replace the plugs and leaking valve cover gaskets also. Prior to this work, our average annual repair cost was ~ $62/year (i do fluid changes, etc. myself). It took them 19 days to finish the job and they used some suspension parts from Autozone (Kia parts not available?). Needless to say our average annual repair cost for the vehicle went up by a factor of about 4X. They wanted $600 for front rotors and pads but i did that myself when we finally got the vehicle back. Wish i had access to some of the independent shops posting comments here!
I would definitely agree that taking off the windshield cowl would help, it for no other reason than you might get a better chance to see what is going on behind. The cowls are generally pretty easy to remove.
the old, injected fords (1986) had a horn that layed over the valve cover like that. I was surprised to see a kia motor run for 108 thousand miles, it might be a first. they have a bad problem with main bearings.
It’s the same with my old car I had,2005 Toyota Camry 3.0 litre v6-the rear bank plugs are very difficult to change without removing the plenelum. I found a way of getting them out without Removing the plenelum,you take the EGR valve system off it and you have access to the 3 plugs with the right tools.
Three years ago, the coil pack failed on my '96 3L DOHC sable with a misfire on the #5 middle rear cylinder. The intake manifold is the same layout as on the featured Kia except on the sable, the coil pack is underneath the manifold. I bought a new "Ultra spark" house brand coil pack from Rock Auto because it was about 1/3 the price of a Motorcraft. After replacing the coil pack, the spark plugs and reassembling everything, the engine wouldn't even run and spit back through the intake manifold. I removed the manifold and rechecked the plug wires and confirmed that they were correct. After reassembly, it still acted like wires were crossed. I then re installed the old defective pack and it ran, albeit with the dead number 5. I suspected the new coil pack was defective and internally mis wired. I finally bought a Motorcraft pack locally and after removing and replacing the manifold for the fourth time, it ran correctly on all cylinders. It took me over 30 days to get to the bottom of the fault and by that time it was too late to get a refund from Rock Auto. I did email them to let them know that I was not happy about the garbage coil pack. Soon after I noticed that the "Ultra spark" coil packs were removed from their on line catalog.
Reminds me of my 1998 Dodge Stratus ES with the Mitsubishi 6g73 2.5L V6. Back three plugs under the upper intake plenum. That was more difficult due to the fact there where two bolts on the side of the plenum that could only be undone by an air ratchet because there is no play for a regular ratchet or end wrench. First time I had mine done, I never put those two bolts back in, then plugs were easy from then on, and no vacuum leaks~
I changed spark plugs on a Chevy V6 in an Equinox, front three takes 5 minutes, the back three spark plugs takes 30 minutes or more, I did them from underneath the car that I jacked up.
I have a 2.5 v6 magentis. Uk version of the optima.same issue with rear bank plugs but they are worse as they have the coil packs over thr plugs. But still only takes an hour to do.
I had gonnen a 99 Hyundai sonata given to me years back. The engine had over heated do to the rusted rad. I had got gotten a used V6 engine from the wreckers. The rear spark plugs never changed also.
I hate the Kia Sportage with a passion. I just feel they are particularly lame cars. I don't like disliking cars, and I hate very few, but this is one of them.
Wait til you do an alternator on a 2011 4 cyl Sorento. I don't care what anyone says, the top mounting bolt has to be cut and you will have hell finding and modifying a replacement bolt.
3.5 Liter Ford Edge....same thing.....$12 intake gasket set....and 45 minutes. But feel free to get your "mechanic"🤣to do it.....for $150/hr. Idiocracy was a Documentary, I'm guessing.🤔
"Not very serviceable?" Name one that is. They are designed to be assembled quickly and economically for max profits. Serviceability is way down the list of priorities when designing a vehicle for production. I was told this by a rep while wrenching for a dealership 40 years ago. I don't believe anything has changed.
It makes you wonder with all transverse V6s you have to remove the intake plenum to change the three spark plugs on the rear bank and that is why l would never buy a transverse V6 a four cylinder is so much easier owned a couple of transverse four cylinder cars so much easier
If that job is hard for you, you need another line of work. Most v6 transverse Engines require the intake to be removed to do the spark plugs. Some require even more.
😮😮😮...This 8s 'bout as disgusting as working on 2008 Kia Sedona minivan alternator...You gota pull the passenger side wheel off, the wheel well .. pull most of the grill assembly off and forward, dink a dodgy Tensioner bolt for the belt, and if you lucky or not like most of these engines, have heads that have leaked oil and turnt into disgusting gooey tar all over the alternator...What should've been a 30 minute long job, turnt into 6 hrs of fighting in 90+ degrees heat with no shade to cool down in...I did this for this lady...I have since then NOT taken any more phone calls to work on her vehicle...😮😮😮😮
@@muddywater6856 .... OMG, dude...😂😂😂!!!... I'm not alone, then...😂😂... this van was terrible !!!... Then, she wanted the two sliding doors replaced...You opened them...???... They would almost crush you coz the hinges and runners were shot... Just like you and lucky for me, it was a brush fire at the Junkyard and the replacement van doors got burnt up...Somebody seent our pain and relieved us both of these major migraine headaches....😂😂😂😂!!!
Proof that all engineers need to wrench on their designs
100% agree. Most auto engineers I’ve met wouldn’t know their arse from their elbow and don’t even service their own cars.
Same with bean counters, they all are at fault
@@shadowopsairman1583 agreed. I look at bean counters like traffic cops. These car companies were formed and ran by engineers and car guys. When the eye gets off the product ( and this the customer) it goes to hell quick.. sears failed because Eddie Lampert was not a retailer. He was a finance guy. JCPENNEY is going the same route. GM wants to make crap and force you to subscribe to software services to drive your car. We need solid cars that are affordable, reliable and last 200k miles. Toyota and Honda and Mazda are building some. Throw in some honest dealers to sell and service the product . Detroit doesn't for the most part .
Lol, Stella the weatherdog could also pass for an asphalt sundial!! But hey, so long as she's happy.
Similar story on a 2007 Mazda CX9. Gotta pull the intake manifold to get to those rear plugs and coils. There's a couple hoses and clamps that suck, and less room that what you have on that Kia. I feel your pain lol.
Still not the worst thing I've worked on, and the motor runs great at 391,000 miles.
I've done hundreds of them.
Intake just needs to come off.
2 line clamps for the coolant hoses to the throttle body. 4' extension with a swivel socket for those 2 brackets from under the car. Change the valve cover gaskets.... you're welcome
It's the same with my 1st gen Toyota Kluger (highlander in the US).
I really should have replaced the plugs when I replaced the rocker cover gaskets. I just didn't have the money at the time, because I bought a very rough vehicle. All up it cost me a couple of thousand in parts and I did all the work myself.
If I had to pay a mechanic, I would have sold the car as scrap.
Lucky I like working on cars.
You have to wonder what the engineers are thinking sometimes. Like, is their goal to literally make it such a pain the, um, neck to work on that you just HAVE to take it to the dealer or mechanic or is there a truly legitimate reason? The Toyota Tundra pickup truck, for example, has the starter INSIDE the engine under the intake manifold. Not only is that a pain to replace, but I can imagine how unbelievably hot it must get which would lead to premature failure in all likelihood.
The space underneath the intake manifold is supposedly cooler than the regular locationdue to the latter's close proximity to the exhaust manifold especially in space constrained applications. it was probably not worthwhile cost-wise to deviate from that 1uz inherited design and move the starter back to its regular location.
The reason is because the engine is designed seperate from the car. The people who designed the engine do not know what car it has to be in, especially when the engine is used in multiple platforms. It is probably easy to work on it in a different vehicle.
@@justsomeone89 My dad had a 1962 Ford pickup truck with a straight six in it. There was so much room in the engine compartment that you could LITERALLY stand inside the engine compartment to change the spark plugs. It was ridiculously easy to work on. Although fuel injection, electronic timing and other modern engine components have overall improved the efficiency etc I do miss how easy they used to be to fix when something went wrong.
I almost guarantee an engineer told marketing that v6 in that package was a bad idea. Marketing said I don't care, do it anyway, the sucker should buy a new car before the plugs go bad anyway.
@@shawnbottom4769 You're probably right.
There are many vehicles that need the intake plenum removed to get to the other 3 spark plugs, Mitsubishi is a bad offender. Honda won't do it that way. Contrary to popular belief on Toyota V6's the rear plugs can be changed without pulling the plenum, but you need some education and the right tools.
You can have the plenum off a 2gr in 15 minutes. I promise you're going to be screwing around with extensions and wobble sockets longer than that trying to work around it
the reason why it's the same on the Kia is that 2.7 Hyundai/Kia engine is based on a Mitsubishi V6 engine.
BMW N55 engine must take the intake plenum off to get at 1 bolt holding the oil filter reservoir housing which has a gasket that is prone to leaking. It leaks onto the alternator belt, causing it to slip off the harmonic balancer and wrap around the crank, bending the crank and destroying the motor.
The intake gasket is a service item. You need to replace it. That's why it's a feature not a bug.
@@firstlast--- For real. People get so intimidated by removing the plenum in transverse v6 cars like this. It's like, 6 or 8 bolts in most cases, and removing some hoses. Just take it off and save yourself some headache. Only thing id recommend is paying close attention to the amount of torque you're using when putting the bolts back in. And look at the gasket, make sure it's not broken.
I had to remove the intake plenum and purchase new seals/gaskets in order to change the back three spark plugs on my daughter’s 07 Lexus.
Piece of cake. All in a days work at our shop. Usually the valve cover gaskets are leaking by 150k so the customer can save labor if you bid that job with a few tenths extra for plug replacement
This is the exact reason I will never buy a FWD V-6 car. Most all of them are brutal to get at the rear bank. In-line 4 only for me, as I do my own repairs.
Thank God that V6 carries plug wires instead of individual on-the-plug coil-packs. Having to detect a bad coil-pack (and they go bad) would be a nightmare on the rear cylinders !
In my country, that model of Kia Sportage came with a 4-cyl. 2000cc gasoline or a 4-cyl. 2000cc turbodiesel engines.
Most of the later Nissan engines (MR & HR) carry an upswept plastic inlet plenum that covers the plugs. So, changing plugs is quite a chore, and detecting a bad coil pack is a mixture of know-how and dexterity using two screwdrivers to dislodge the harness-plug on the coil pack !
The modern engine has done nothing to reduce owner-expense nor simplify maintenance !
Trinidad & Tobago.
West Indies.
Thats probably the biggest reason most manufactures went to platinum spark plugs ! Some even outlast the engine !
The old jdm 2.5l V6 Camry that we had and passed on to one of the kids, is now 26 years old, has over 400,000km on it, and is still running the original plugs and water pump.
I dont think Toyota build them like that any more.
Just found this. 71 retired drive a 2006 Subaru sti. Currently troubleshooting a po302 cylinder 2 misfire. Pita trying to narrow down. Engine is good, did a compression and leakdown test all good
Reminds me of one of the glow plugs and the vacuum engine stop on my former W201 2.5D. Both were very hard to reach with standard tools.
Had the plugs on our '08 Sorento w/3.3L V6 replaced at a Kia dealership recently when it went in for front wheel bearing replacement and associated suspension repair. Had them replace the plugs and leaking valve cover gaskets also. Prior to this work, our average annual repair cost was ~ $62/year (i do fluid changes, etc. myself).
It took them 19 days to finish the job and they used some suspension parts from Autozone (Kia parts not available?). Needless to say our average annual repair cost for the vehicle went up by a factor of about 4X. They wanted $600 for front rotors and pads but i did that myself when we finally got the vehicle back. Wish i had access to some of the independent shops posting comments here!
Might not be worth the effort, but you could get a bit more wiggle room if you remove the cowl?
I would definitely agree that taking off the windshield cowl would help, it for no other reason than you might get a better chance to see what is going on behind. The cowls are generally pretty easy to remove.
the old, injected fords (1986) had a horn that layed over the valve cover like that. I was surprised to see a kia motor run for 108 thousand miles, it might be a first. they have a bad problem with main bearings.
A nightmare of a job😢
It’s the same with my old car I had,2005 Toyota Camry 3.0 litre v6-the rear bank plugs are very difficult to change without removing the plenelum. I found a way of getting them out without Removing the plenelum,you take the EGR valve system off it and you have access to the 3 plugs with the right tools.
Three years ago, the coil pack failed on my '96 3L DOHC sable with a misfire on the #5 middle rear cylinder. The intake manifold is the same layout as on the featured Kia except on the sable, the coil pack is underneath the manifold. I bought a new "Ultra spark" house brand coil pack from Rock Auto because it was about 1/3 the price of a Motorcraft. After replacing the coil pack, the spark plugs and reassembling everything, the engine wouldn't even run and spit back through the intake manifold. I removed the manifold and rechecked the plug wires and confirmed that they were correct. After reassembly, it still acted like wires were crossed. I then re installed the old defective pack and it ran, albeit with the dead number 5. I suspected the new coil pack was defective and internally mis wired. I finally bought a Motorcraft pack locally and after removing and replacing the manifold for the fourth time, it ran correctly on all cylinders. It took me over 30 days to get to the bottom of the fault and by that time it was too late to get a refund from Rock Auto. I did email them to let them know that I was not happy about the garbage coil pack. Soon after I noticed that the "Ultra spark" coil packs were removed from their on line catalog.
But did you get a free hat?
@@mr.gutwrench No, but I got the fridge magnet.
What a nightmare, but you had a lovely day for it!
That’s terrible access. I’m lucky as I just changed the plugs on my 10 year old Accord hybrid and it took me all of ten minutes.
Thanks for the tips.
Reminds me of my 1998 Dodge Stratus ES with the Mitsubishi 6g73 2.5L V6. Back three plugs under the upper intake plenum. That was more difficult due to the fact there where two bolts on the side of the plenum that could only be undone by an air ratchet because there is no play for a regular ratchet or end wrench. First time I had mine done, I never put those two bolts back in, then plugs were easy from then on, and no vacuum leaks~
I changed spark plugs on a Chevy V6 in an Equinox, front three takes 5 minutes, the back three spark plugs takes 30 minutes or more, I did them from underneath the car that I jacked up.
I have a 2.5 v6 magentis. Uk version of the optima.same issue with rear bank plugs but they are worse as they have the coil packs over thr plugs. But still only takes an hour to do.
Kind of reminds me of the placement of the rover discovery coil packs and bolts. Can't eve see them with a mirror. All by feel.
almost like nissan 3.5v6 in Renault Espace 3 cyl are block
Yep, Sportage is all over the world. Or close to it.
Thanks
My Taurus had removable wiper tray to make rear access better.
since when are the 1, 3, and 6 cylinders on the same side?
he said 2, 3, 6 on the other bank. this is sure one weird engine!
Never saw a transverse mount V6 that was easy to access the rear bank of plugs on.
I buy the correct gasket material and cut my own when needed...
I had gonnen a 99 Hyundai sonata given to me years back. The engine had over heated do to the rusted rad. I had got gotten a used V6 engine from the wreckers. The rear spark plugs never changed also.
What a coincidence. Just did a Ford Taurus V6 and did have to remove the intake plenum.
Worst part is that center bolt on the back of the plenum luckily mine was left off on my tiburon makes taking it off and on a lot easier
Not having to weld to a broken off stud is likely because that car is in Oregon without road salt.
I have "gone to" pickups and ONLY pickups, and I want NO V engines of any kind which are OHC. Yes!! That really limits choices!!
Toyota does the same thing with the Sienna. $hitty design that costs $500 due to shop labor costs, which is just nuts.
Jeep Wranglers is another one that likes to play hide and seek with spark plugs.
I hate the Kia Sportage with a passion. I just feel they are particularly lame cars. I don't like disliking cars, and I hate very few, but this is one of them.
Looks real easy. Try working on a diesel truck sometime. A lot of repairs its easier to pull the cab off!
Mine was the coil pack #5
Wait til you do an alternator on a 2011 4 cyl Sorento. I don't care what anyone says, the top mounting bolt has to be cut and you will have hell finding and modifying a replacement bolt.
Most transverse mounted v6 engines have this issue
Ford Vulcan and Duratec V-6 is like that
3.5 Liter Ford Edge....same thing.....$12 intake gasket set....and 45 minutes.
But feel free to get your "mechanic"🤣to do it.....for $150/hr.
Idiocracy was a Documentary, I'm guessing.🤔
what does double nut mean?
"Not very serviceable?" Name one that is. They are designed to be assembled quickly and economically for max profits. Serviceability is way down the list of priorities when designing a vehicle for production. I was told this by a rep while wrenching for a dealership 40 years ago. I don't believe anything has changed.
It makes you wonder with all transverse V6s you have to remove the intake plenum to change the three spark plugs on the rear bank and that is why l would never buy a transverse V6 a four cylinder is so much easier owned a couple of transverse four cylinder cars so much easier
I really don't like transverse mounted V6 engines. I'd much rather have a simple 4 cylinder in a vehicle like that.
with that replace the plugs, wires, and coil pack its missing for a reason.
Take it all the way apart run a compression test, and perform it correctly. What a goof.
If that job is hard for you, you need another line of work. Most v6 transverse Engines require the intake to be removed to do the spark plugs. Some require even more.
It's not hard, I made the mistake of low quote to customer and had to adjust up. Not pleasant
@@2stroketurbo been there. done that.
Are you a Sneaky doodle dandy?
It’s the same in the Jaguar.
Well, if it only had to be done at 155,000- you won't ever have to do it again. A one time in the vehicles life repair job. Not bad.
Sportage? Should have named it Roughage.
That is roughly a 1.5Hr job in our shop. No biggie.
wow
@@2stroketurbo Are you surprised by something? It really isn't that difficult of a job for any competent technician with the most basic hand tools.
😮😮😮...This 8s 'bout as disgusting as working on 2008 Kia Sedona minivan alternator...You gota pull the passenger side wheel off, the wheel well .. pull most of the grill assembly off and forward, dink a dodgy Tensioner bolt for the belt, and if you lucky or not like most of these engines, have heads that have leaked oil and turnt into disgusting gooey tar all over the alternator...What should've been a 30 minute long job, turnt into 6 hrs of fighting in 90+ degrees heat with no shade to cool down in...I did this for this lady...I have since then NOT taken any more phone calls to work on her vehicle...😮😮😮😮
I fell into that trap with my daughter's van......
I was so glad when she was rear ended and the Insurance totaled it😊😊😊......(no one was hurt)
@@muddywater6856 .... OMG, dude...😂😂😂!!!... I'm not alone, then...😂😂... this van was terrible !!!... Then, she wanted the two sliding doors replaced...You opened them...???... They would almost crush you coz the hinges and runners were shot... Just like you and lucky for me, it was a brush fire at the Junkyard and the replacement van doors got burnt up...Somebody seent our pain and relieved us both of these major migraine headaches....😂😂😂😂!!!
L-X (luxury -not)😁
1,3,6. 2,3,5. Lol, wtf 😂
The top.
Of that also looks Like a copied Ford intake.
From my personal experience; KIAs aren't bad cars, they're terrible cars. Never again.
It is a pirated version of a Ford Escape. Just like all of their vehicles
That is just stupid engineering.
A pain in the arse.
Best show??😂
They are throw away cars
1,3,5 and 2,4,6....😂