Yet again you’re right, both in regard to - pre wash are crucial - stronger pre wash is better long term, even if it strips protection quicker, in reality rubbing dirt strips protection as well as scratches your paint job. - Touchless is a beast
That’s why you use a quick detailier or spray wax as a drying aid afterwards and you don’t have to worry if you just stripped anything, especially if the sealant on your car is of a professional grade. I’ve seen sealants where people took a polisher to them and the cars clear coat would wear out before the sealant did.
Purchased touchless on your recommendation and it arrived today and had to try it right away, Mrs came home in her white golf so thought I would try it. The car was washed over a week ago and it’s been up and down the motorways for over a week and this stuff shifted almost all of the road film and it now looks like I have just spent over an hour washing it, amazing product would recommend this to everyone. Top review again John 👍🏻
Started off using Autoglym. Not impressed. I was advised to use BL Touchless. Bought some, used it, loved it. Does a great job and residue on the drive disappears quickly. Unlike Autoglym. In cold weather it's still there 24 hours later!!!
I agree - I've been using touchless for the past year with great results. My only criticism of it is that the foam dwell time is low, and I like to see the foam doing its thing. I fix this by mixing in a little bit of AG Polar Blast as well, which creates fabulous thick foam.
You were the first to turn me on to Autofoam which I have been using with great success for a few years now. I will probably try Touchless when I run out of Autofoam and compare the results. I just wish Bilt Hamber products weren't so expensive (38 gbp for 5 L of Touchless) and hard to find (only one distributor) in the US.
I've just come in from cleaning mine, first clean since the winter, so the film was caked on. Pre wash with touchless & I was tempted not to bother washing it (I did, reluctantly 🙂), it's brilliant stuff
I have just moved from valetpro ph neutral to touch less for a model 3 Tesla in white. I found the valetpro to be a waste of time but I did it because everybody says you should. Since changing to touch less a month ago I’ve not bothered cleaning the car other than using it and giving it a good rinse - the car is 90% clean which is plenty for normal use and a car wash take me about 12 minutes start to end now. Thank you for your review.
Jon, I'm a very active member on the Autogeek forum and thanks to you I'm a Bilt-Hamber convert...BIG TIME! I've been doing pre-washes with both Touchless and Auto-foam during the winter and have been blown away! Yesterday was almost 70 degrees and I used a hose foamer with 1 oz of Bilt-Hamber Auto-foam and 32 oz water, sprayed it on and let dwell and rinsed and my beading was VERY tight! I feel that between 3-4 pre-washes between the 2 has unclogged my coating (TAC system power plus applied in June of 2020) Thanks for being so passionate about this product...IT WORKS, PERIOD❗❗
Got a 5L jug of Touchless back when you first covered it; I have done something like 6-10 washes with it. I honestly think it is one of the best cleaning pre-washes around, especially on cars that are not coated/protected. It is a pretty solid competitor IMO because I don’t go through a whole lot of product, rinses well, has a good working time, and wasn’t terribly expensive to get in the US. Only downside is a strong, peculiar smell.
@@paulwyand6204 I bought it on the recent black Friday sale from The Clean Garage and paid somewhere around $40. Remember they're jug is 5L or 169 ounces. Not 128 Oz.
Bravo Jon, you pretty much hit several nails on the head with this video. More importantly you put the age old topic of LSP and ph and non-ph products into context. The unique selling point of ph neutral snow foams are overstated, the manufacturers don't even make any claims about it's cleaning ability other than on "lightly" soiled vehicles, and your test really brought that to life. What is the point of being kind to the LSP if you're going to end up more dirt on the car which will increase the risk of marring during the contact wash phase! LSP is a sacrificial layer and easy to top up or replace. The only thing missing from the video was the corrosion inhibitors in these BH products. I wonder whether Auto-Foam has a slight advantage, it being cationic and more difficult to rinse off, it might cling more in wheel arches and to any exposed ferrous components (but maybe it's marginal, and anyway I use Atom-Mac in my wash routine). So although I love Auto-Foam, I'm going to also try out Touch-Less based on this video. BTW, both products state a maximum of 5% PIR (it's the instructions on how to calculate your setup's abilities which mentions 4%), but the minimum for AF is 1%, and for TL it's 2%.
Interesting, just done a snow foam test video the other week on my channel and was happy with the result. Granted not as detailed as yours but it's part of my new tested videos were I make the video nice and short and to the point
I've been using touchless now for about 6 - 8 washes after using autoglym beforehand. The difference in cleaning power is certainly noticeable. I've noted less corrosion on my brake discs too which is a good thing. The last two washes I've tried it out of a pump sprayer to see how it affects it over a foamer, I think it cleans better and as a handy plus point it uses less product.
You mean touchles had better performance than the autoglym? How much PIR Touchles you used with a Lance? How much dillution you used with a pump sprayer? Thanks
This results are incredible. I’ve just bought and tried some Bilt Hamber Auto Foam and it’s mental. It wipes the floor with Autoglym which has been my ‘go-to’. And it leaves a real shine. I’ve looked to see if it is full of silicone but can’t find it in the ingredients. It’s so good that in this wet, muddy weather, I’m not bothering to hand wash (except the wheels which I still do). BH lifts much better and doesn’t leave streaks where the jet hits. It cleans sooo evenly. Awesome stuff. ♥️ But I’ll definitely be buying some of the Touch Less.
Thank you Jon, I've been waiting for a direct comparison between these two especially with the nitty gritty info ie what they actually consist of and what their specifications and chemical properties are! I use both but am undecided as to which I prefer. The original Auto Foam is so good it'll be hard to beat especially when the new one costs more. Anyone who's a regular on your channel knows full well snowfoam DOES work, although IMHO BH snowfoam (either one) makes all others redundant because not only do they actually work you don't have to spend ages clearing shaving foam type rinse-off away from your driveway! Thick foam sucks - boooooooo!
Agreed SteveRabbits. We should all know by now that BH makes some effective pre-wash products. The only universally agreed upon downside seems to be how much product you go through. Need this stuff in 5 gallon/20L containers in the US
@@grim5068 I'd love to chat with their chemists. I'd imagine they could use a more potent chemical that you could dilute further, but I wonder if environmental ethics start to play a role there. Perhaps they could use some stronger chemicals, but how much stronger can you go with a product that gets everywhere and washes down drains/gets into waterways? I think buying in bulk would be a cost effective solution for now, so that's what I'm hoping for
Thank you so much for your continued videos on this subject and dispelling this myth that PH neutral is some universal positive. As you seem to be gaining more and more support in the ideal that a higher PH pre-wash is better I would love to see you do almost this exact same test and expand it to some other soaps. I'd be willing to send you some stuff from the U.S. if you can't get it there. Particularly I would love to see some stuff like the Turtle Wax Max Power, and some of the lesser known stuff like Wash Chems and Chem-X, as well as the chemical guys Citrus wash in a higher concentration as they claim it can be used to strip waxes in higher concentrations. Last but not least I'd like to see you do the test with a PH neutral soap punched up with a high alkaline APC such as super clean, which is very very common for people to do here. I'd like to see how much it actually does and what the limits are.
Cheers Jon, another great video. I'm just starting to learn about how to detail a motor properly, only for my own car so not looking to make a living out of it or anything, but always really interesting to learn from guys or ladies like you that have far more knowledge than me. Much appreciated sir, please keep em coming 👍
Great video Jon and just the information I was seeking. It's amazing how many clips show the products being tested on relatively clean cars and your demo really hit the mark in my opinion. I have just ordered 5L of Touchless following your advice and cannot wait to try it out. I'm not too stuck on all that foam over the driveway, so have bought a Spear & Jackson 5L pump sprayer and will use that instead of a foam lance. Thanks again.
@@goldar4846 It only arrived yesterday, so haven't had a chance to try the product yet. My understanding is that the formula does the work, as opposed to the bubbles, so I'm hopeful it will work well from the pump sprayer. I don't think BH would suggest this approach if it wouldn't do the job. If it doesn't, which I doubt, I'll respond further.
Pan the Organizer in Canada did a similar test on his vehicle covered in winter road grime and mag chloride. He got the same results you did where Touchless won out. I live in Colorado in the US and we get bad winter grime. After seeing your test and his, I know what I want to use over the winter.
Anchorage! Interesting note - the pay-and-spray washes here have user-closable bay doors and heated water in the pressure washers. I use them to get the initial layer of dirt off before washing in my garage at home.
Getting low on AF, so I ordered some TL . Seeing how it cleaned out the wheel arches made me want to give it a go. Probably going to use TL in the summer for the dustier conditions and keep the AF for after motorway driving when it’s likely to get greasy crap on it from HGVs and roadworks. My logic may be way off though!
Great comparison, Jon. I still love Surfex HD used at 7% as a prewash once or twice a week followed by a rinseless wash with BSD (winter) or Done and dusted si edition (summer). I think if the car paint is well protected, these BH prewash products can really make the two buckets process obsolete. I only now use shampoo to prep for polishing my cars every two years. I have no issues with this process scratching the paint of my Audi and Hyundai cars.
I tried touch-less today, I did a similar test on my car, but was disappointed: 1st place: Surfex HD 1:15 (I'd rate it 7.5/10 in cleaning power 2nd place: Touch-less 1:15 (6,25% PIR) (I'd rate it 6/10) 3rd place: Touch-less 1:24 (5%) (I'd rate it 5/10) 4th place: Multi-X 1:15 (2/10) 5th place: Reset 1:128 (1/10) 6th place: ONR 1:256 (0/0) Test method: diluted on a sprayer, sprayed the panel, waited 5 mins, rinsed with a pressure washer, dried with a blower PS: Surfex HD and Touch-less have a very similar smell
@@miguelcunha6664 in my experience any prewash product will be as good as your LSP. I use Fusso Coat as my base sealant and BSD as my sacrificial layer. This combo works well with Surfex HD as it stops dirt and grime from clinging onto the clear coat. Plus the surfactants in the Surfex help lifting any residual contaminant when I follow up with a rinseless wash. Another thing I'd say is that i hardly go a full week of driving without doing this procedure at least once, sometimes I do a touchless only and drive away when rain is in the forecast for instance, so the car is never really that dirt in the first place.
Can you do some experiments on how these degrade plastic and rubber trim? I've heard stories of people complaining that it strips out the oils...etc. from rubbers leaving them chalky, which I have to imagine is not good in the long term. Also, curious which PH neutral soap you used?
I can get a full contact less wash in winter with AutoFoam, and that's in North Scotland with loads of salt etc, makes that golf look clean. Tbf I bung in loads of product, prob 50:50 and take an age doing the pressure wash but with cotton swabs after it's 100% clean. Zero touching winter wash win!
John, Koch Chemie has Super Foam which is supposed to be a 12ph as well. And 3D has their Nano Pail Pre-Foam which is supposed to be 12ph. Then there is Wash Chem-50 which is making its way around the USA as a high PH foam n rinse. Then Chem-X has Stars+Stripes that is another big one here in the USA. It’s interesting as it’s a 2 part neutralizing system. Maybe worth looking into. Good day
I'd love to see the some of these compared as well. As it is BH just isn't cost effective for me in the states and I haven't tried a pre-wash that was any better than just water so I don't bother.
I love watching your videos, and you do mention stuff that makes sense, preventing the waste of time. I have watched another video where you show how unnecessary it is to pre-rinse your car with water. Thank you!
Nice work.. I’ve always loved Surfex and I’ve mixed that into any snow foam I’ve used. I’m using KK GS and Lift And that is really working well. Not hot on BH car soap.. think there is far better. But Will defo try touchless when what I have is gone
@@dimmacommunication Koch Chemie Autoshampoo is good. BH is good but I like a bit more foam. I felt it wasn’t as slick as I’d want it to be. BH though is great on price and how long it lasts which a lot of other products don’t give. I only like to use shampoos that don’t have any protectants in them. Not tried any Adams or Valet Pro products yet.. so many out there
100% agree Jon. I don’t particularly care about degrading LSP as I’d rather do that then destroy the paintwork. I’m currently an Auto foam user and I super charge it by first spraying Koch Chemie Green Star in pump sprayer on the vehicle between 8:1/ 10:1 followed by an immediate blanket of Auto foam. This combo has always worked brilliantly for me. Might consider touchless at some point.
I use Autofoam but when I have used it up I maybe order a bottle of each. If have to top up my Fusso coat in the spring and fall I'm Okey with that. I'm not looking for perfektion. Just a honest and well maintained look
Yes!!! Another BH video 👍. Personally you have got me buying BH from your earlier videos and I cannot move away from the brand, I use the touchless system (touch-on) I use BH shampoo after Touchless, then a second bucket wash using touch-on. Results are epic. I switch between BH LSP and Autoglm ceramic coating to really boost the beadage of touch-on. Might try Gyeon wet coat and Bathe+ and use can coat every 6 months... I absolutely love slickness and beadage, my ultimate goal would be to find the most hydrophobic coating known to man- that would make me the happiest. 🙏
AMAZING VIDEO came over from pan the organizer because I've been looking for pre foam and this video was AMAZING!! THANK YOU ,will be buying rinse less now
I've always found that my Autofoam leaves a tiny bit of roadfilm as seen in this video, so I'll be moving over to Touchless on my next purchase. It's almost good enough for a completely contactless wash (good for undercarriage!)
I like to coat the car in Opti-Clean before my my pre-rinse. I spray it on let it sit for a moment then rinse the car. I know it take off a lot of dirt and more importantly to me it provides a lot of lubrication so when I go in with a high pressure pre-rinse it helps the dirt I am blowing off not hurt the paint. Great video
Surfex is my choice, as it can be used for other things too. I seem to remember the BH site recommending Surfex for greasy films rather than Autofoam which is aimed at dusty dirt. I know Surfex isn’t the most foamy and can’t be left to dwell in Summer, but it doesn’t seem to need much time to do the job. Maybe I’ll try Touchless in Summer.
I totally agree with you John I always use a strong prewash for coated cars I use autofoam I also use autoglym high foam tfr and autosmart ultra mousse the last 2 a very good cleaners. I always been in the camp it best to get as much dirt off you can before touching the paint as you say. If not u are putting damage onto your clear coat. Much easier to top your protection up than machine polishing. And so many easy ways of topping it up these days polar seal a good quick option and very available in the shops. Great test 👍
Great test again john, I am converted to Touchless. I would like to see the same test but with ONR as a pre-wash option as well, i think it will give similar or better then thr PH neutral that you used. I have ditched shampoo from my cleaning as touchless is so good, i just need to go over with ONR and then dry.
Yesterday after watching this video I tried on my car's door, which was similar to this video's door I tried ONR 1:256, carpro reset 1:128 in a foamer, surfex HD 1:15 in a sprayer. ONR performed 0 out of 10, reset did a 2 out of 10, and surfex did a 6.5 out of 10. I'm in doubt if I touch order touch-less, as surfex did a rather decent job.
I just used touch less for the first time yesterday. Compared to my previous cheap ebay snow foam, it produced less thick foam, however it removes much more dirt. My wash mitt was far cleaner and it worked well on the alloys. Very impressed. I'd give it 8/10. The only two things I think could be improved is the dilution ratio and the lack of very thick foam. Cleaning power is top notch though.
@@ianwilson2968 thicker foam that stays on the car a little longer gives you a bit more time to work before it starts to dry. Handy for me as I clean both cars at the same time and all this hot weather means you have to work faster.
Great video as always Jon. I live in Southern Europe and the word around here is to also use an acid prewash for inorganic dirt (sand, mineral deposits, etc). We don’t get a lot of salt and general grime in winter here - would love your thoughts on this
you mean salfumant, hydrochloric acid. It will work, obviously. Just make sure you rinse it all off before it attacks the paint and plastics. Personally, I wouldn't put it anywhere near my car, apart from cleaning wheels.
@@LiveFromLondon2 the recommended products are usually Purifica from Labocosmetica and Sour Shampoo/Foam by Good Stuff. I believe others are starting to pick up on the slightly acid shampoos as it helps rejuvenating the coating (e.g. CarPro latest products, KochChem FSE)
@@LiveFromLondon2 Don't overthink things. Fear is a mind killer. I spray wheel acid on paint daily, as a professional detailer. As long as you don't let it dwell it's my secret weapon ;)
also you can try the same thing but against a lightly soiled car that has protection. I wash my car well before it gets to this level of dirty and one time I tried only pressure washing it just to see what happens I even didn’t dry it I just drove it and the car became about 95% cleaner only problem was the water spotting so I washed it the day after and the water spots went away. So this could be the reason why people say it’s a waste of time for them a lot of variables play roles like the level of dirt , the protection of the car, the weather and the temperature of the water.
Just watched the video. The Bilt Hamber Touchless appears to have done the job. I would like to try it as the science behind it seems to work. As detailers we all know that touching a panel the least amount will have the most beneficial outcome of minimizing marring. I dry all my vehicles with the Metro Master Blaster so it never gets touched again after the initial wash. So it would be cool one day to have a true touchless system.
My big problem with snow foams is on very dark paints. If that product drys on the paint it's almost impossible to remove the staining. Now you can do panels at a time but it's time consuming changing over the lance and so on. I'd be very interested seeing how you remove water marks and stained paint from prewash products. Great video.
@@ForensicDetailing I agree, you don't let them dry but on dark cars it can be very easy for it to start drying before you rinse plus I always seam to find even when you wash you can get sections that have started drying which turns into a nightmare to remove the marks especially when prewash has been used. Straight washing doesn't seem to be quite so bad. I maybe wrong thought 👍
I've being valeting cars 🚗 for over 40 years you must Pre wash the car first for a perfect result 👌 I'm using foam at the moment but may go on to touchless soon keep the videos coming m8 .👍
I use Surfex-HD at 4% in a pump sprayer. Leave to dwell for a few minutes and then jet wash off and it cuts through the traffic film and dirt like an hot butter through knife. No need for fancy snow foams anymore.
Great video, big fan of touchless and touchon. When my vehicles are heavily contaminated in the winter with salt I use a 50/50 mix of surfex and autofoam., Extremely effective and cheaper than 4% pir touchless.
Awesome video and information! Thank you so much. Very valid point regarding LSP degradation by a high PH prewash.. rather apply that more often than have to correct paint defects because of poor washing practice?!
I've got Auto Foam and so far I haven't been massively happy. You notice the weird pattern left after washing in your sample? The lines you can see. I always get that and it felt like I was maybe getting my ratio wrong. After seeing this. I wonder if it's to do with the Cationic Vs Non-Cationic portion of the product you mentioned. I have equally as much winter scum on my car at the moment and honestly I've wondered if I needed TFR or something first. I've honestly never really even has Auto Foam work as well as you've demonstrated here yet. It's a shame because I really like Bilt Hamber.
I know we dont use pre foaming like this in the states .. not sure why. Anyways, ive been using a APC pre spray (Greenstar 10:1) on my jeep prior to a waterless or rinseless wash down at the coin op. It does a great job at removing 90% of the grime. I wash my cars weekly so it does not get all that dirty. Rw/ww does just fine.
I tried touch-less today, I did a similar test on my car, but was disappointed: 1st place: Surfex HD 1:15 (I'd rate it 7.5/10 in cleaning power 2nd place: Touch-less 1:15 (6,25% PIR) (I'd rate it 6/10) 3rd place: Touch-less 1:24 (5%) (I'd rate it 5/10) 4th place: Multi-X 1:15 (2/10) 5th place: Reset 1:128 (1/10) 6th place: ONR 1:256 (0/0) Test method: diluted on a sprayer, sprayed the panel, waited 5 mins, rinsed with a pressure washer, dried with a blower PS: Surfex HD and Touch-less have a very similar smell
@@miguelcunha6664 I think your ratios need adjusting bud. 1:19 would be 5% I’m sure. 1:24 would 4%. Also depends on how dirty the car was or what kind of film you have on the car. Surfex HD can be extremely effective in the winter film especially when combined with auto foam.
@@kwl189 You're right, I mistakenly wrote 5% when I wanted to write 4%. Interesting fact: 2 weeks later I tested again and this time I included Auto-foam in the test, and t lost against Touch-less. One week after, it won. It really depends on the type of dirt. I have a foam canon and a marolex 5liter pump sprayer. I prefer using the sprayer as I save product and get a more precise dilution. In my tests surfex always wins and auto-foam and touch-less fight for the 2nd place. Why not just use surfex then?
@@miguelcunha6664 Not a problem. Mistakes are easily done. Yes I am in full agreement with you on using a sprayer. I do the same myself for the same result. Cost. I don’t care for the snow foam and theatrics. I just want something non caustic, seriously effective and that does the job full stop. The only downside to sprayer is that it can dry off the surface really quickly which is annoying to say the least. Dilution ratios are very easy to work as well agreed. Snow foam canons are just convenient to apply protection onto. The dirt is a huge factor with Touch-less and Autofoam. Surfex HD is lethal on dirt but also lethal to LSP. The degradation on LSP is substantial. Given the price of Surfex HD though, it’s incredibly versatile and useful whilst being unreal value for money. I think John should do a test with Surfex to see. I have seen people just full on use Surfex HD given its magical properties.
@@kwl189 for touchless how many ml of touchless to ml of water in a 1 letre canon foamer is the 4% PIR? is it really neccessary to calculate it with my preassure washer?
Last two bottles were TL instead of AW and man can t praise it enough. Honestly I do this small business of cleaning cars alongside my day job and TL helps me getting the job fast and it s so cool to see the foam getting down but dirty no touch
Hi, is there a specific type of snowfoam attachment for the BH Autofoam ? I have a Spear & Jackson Pressure Washer and it has a small foam sprayer with it, will that be OK?
These comparison vids are just the best. Would be interested to see how Surfex faired as a pre wash against winter road film. I’ll be using AG Brute at around 5% next weekend so we’ll see what that removes.
I tried touch-less today, I did a similar test on my car, but was disappointed: 1st place: Surfex HD 1:15 (I'd rate it 7.5/10 in cleaning power 2nd place: Touch-less 1:15 (6,25% PIR) (I'd rate it 6/10) 3rd place: Touch-less 1:24 (5%) (I'd rate it 5/10) 4th place: Multi-X 1:15 (2/10) 5th place: Reset 1:128 (1/10) 6th place: ONR 1:256 (0/0) Test method: diluted on a sprayer, sprayed the panel, waited 5 mins, rinsed with a pressure washer, dried with a blower PS: Surfex HD and Touch-less have a very similar smell
Great to see the comparison been using Autofoam now for a while since watching your videos and it’s been fantastic over the winter. Will definitely be giving touch-less a go to see for myself. I would normally drop to a ph neutral in the summer months when the cars not so dirty especially now I don’t drive it so much.
Great video! People test this but your test actually shows what these products do after you dried it. Excellent!! What I would say is that the AF is great on cramic coated cars because it's easy to clean them, even pH neutral is great. But definitely, I'm gonna use touchless on cars that are not treated with ceramic coating. 👌👍
During or after winter to get those road salts off are always tough.. typically, I will use an apc 4 to 1 and let it knock it down... and or add a little super clean to my foam canon for some extra cleaning fun.. i do like your thought process; toucless vs mechanical cleaning.. yeck I'm always adding more lsp anyway.
It is exactly the same as the LSP argument made here. The extra degradation from the alkalinity is far less significant than the degradation that comes with heavier agitation and scrubbing to remove what a PH neutral product leaves behind.
I really rate touchless. When I bought 5L's it was difficult to find a solid review. This just confirms my findings, I've found I get through it quite quickly when diluting to 4-5%. I'm sure during the summer I'll get away with a 2-3% and claw some value back. Great stuff as always.
FWIW IMHO 4 LSP PH neutral snowfoams are another detailing gimmick. Most people top up their LSP when they wash anyway so you may as well get the car clean as possible with your snowfoam/pre-wash. 14 initials in a row, not bad eh! 😂😂😂 Your best video in a while Jon, really enjoyed that one mate
I bought a snow foam kit about five years ago, I've tried so many different approaches when using it and I'm still convinced it does bugger all. I'm not splashing out on any fancy snow foams now I'll just rinse with a hose then a bucket of warm water with Autoglym shampoo and one of those £3 mits, seems to do the trick, some times I even finish off with Demon Shine, looks good.
Snow foam is game changer for car washing IMO, I use the touch less as a pre wash then spray on a snow foam shampoo with added wax & hand wash using a lambs wool washmit to agitate before rinsing off & micro fibre towelling dry - I think for me, this works best
Great video, Jon, as always. Simple yet effective. I did my first wash after the winter with Bilt Hamber products and the results were NOT perfect. Why?? Because i was dumb and used low concentrations i use for regular maintenance washing during the warmer time of the year. That is 1:19 Surfex HD, 1:9 Auto Foam into the cannon (dont know the actual PIR) and 1:1000 Auto Wash. Some parts of the car were not clean after the complete procedure. So i doubled the concentrations for the next wash and it was okay. It seems the road salt here where i live is super clingy. Anyway, once I finish the Auto Foam can im gonna switch to Touchless, as the road film i get is more dusty than greasy.
I'm not concerned about the protection degrading, but is it worth considering how a highly alkaline chemical might affect the rubber seals and plastics long term?
Brilliant content as always Jon. I've recently bought TL over the AF, first impressions were good as the cars were filthy. I'll soon see once the weather changes and there's less salt on the roads. Can't fail with Bilt Hamber 👍.
First time I've seen a decent comparison between just a water rinse and various snow foams. And people on detailing/car pages still say snow foam/prewashes are a waste of money. Same folk who still rate sponges and chamois leathers 😂 Autofoam has been my go to for ages but I think after seeing this I may give TL a try when I run out 👍
I have always been confused with the ph neutral crew. Rain has a ph of around 5. So your LSP is constantly attacked. As John says cleaning with less abrasion is far more beneficial than a contact wash with a neutral wash. Touch less for the win for me. If the road film is really bad then I will use a surfex very diluted spray to sit on the dirt while I sort out the foam cannon. You just need to feel your lap and when it need reapplication. It’s there to be sacrificed.
Brilliant video. Was stuck between the two, but will be going with Touchless after watching this video. Im sure the difference is going to be night and day, from my current prewash which is Polar Blast (useless and messy).
I love this guy, first the accent. Second, his common sense approach. Just found the channel recently, keep it up champ! :)
Yet again you’re right, both in regard to
- pre wash are crucial
- stronger pre wash is better long term, even if it strips protection quicker, in reality rubbing dirt strips protection as well as scratches your paint job.
- Touchless is a beast
And you don't think using caustic substances removes protection?
@@Cheepchipsable he said he does think it strips!
@@Cheepchipsable Not to "bright" are you.
Your reading comprehension skills are deplorable.
Neither are caustic.
That’s why you use a quick detailier or spray wax as a drying aid afterwards and you don’t have to worry if you just stripped anything, especially if the sealant on your car is of a professional grade. I’ve seen sealants where people took a polisher to them and the cars clear coat would wear out before the sealant did.
Purchased touchless on your recommendation and it arrived today and had to try it right away, Mrs came home in her white golf so thought I would try it. The car was washed over a week ago and it’s been up and down the motorways for over a week and this stuff shifted almost all of the road film and it now looks like I have just spent over an hour washing it, amazing product would recommend this to everyone. Top review again John 👍🏻
Started off using Autoglym. Not impressed. I was advised to use BL Touchless. Bought some, used it, loved it. Does a great job and residue on the drive disappears quickly. Unlike Autoglym. In cold weather it's still there 24 hours later!!!
I agree - I've been using touchless for the past year with great results. My only criticism of it is that the foam dwell time is low, and I like to see the foam doing its thing. I fix this by mixing in a little bit of AG Polar Blast as well, which creates fabulous thick foam.
Hi Chris. Liked your post. Roughly how AG Blast do you add to your BHTL mix? Cheers fella👍
@@agent699 Just a splash - 30ml max
Tnx Chris I'll give it a bash. 👍
You were the first to turn me on to Autofoam which I have been using with great success for a few years now. I will probably try Touchless when I run out of Autofoam and compare the results. I just wish Bilt Hamber products weren't so expensive (38 gbp for 5 L of Touchless) and hard to find (only one distributor) in the US.
I've just come in from cleaning mine, first clean since the winter, so the film was caked on. Pre wash with touchless & I was tempted not to bother washing it (I did, reluctantly 🙂), it's brilliant stuff
I have just moved from valetpro ph neutral to touch less for a model 3 Tesla in white. I found the valetpro to be a waste of time but I did it because everybody says you should. Since changing to touch less a month ago I’ve not bothered cleaning the car other than using it and giving it a good rinse - the car is 90% clean which is plenty for normal use and a car wash take me about 12 minutes start to end now. Thank you for your review.
I like ur thought process and reasoning. I recently did lots of research and bought the Touchless over AutoFoam. I’m Very happy with it. Thanks
Jon, I'm a very active member on the Autogeek forum and thanks to you I'm a Bilt-Hamber convert...BIG TIME! I've been doing pre-washes with both Touchless and Auto-foam during the winter and have been blown away!
Yesterday was almost 70 degrees and I used a hose foamer with 1 oz of Bilt-Hamber Auto-foam and 32 oz water, sprayed it on and let dwell and rinsed and my beading was VERY tight! I feel that between 3-4 pre-washes between the 2 has unclogged my coating (TAC system power plus applied in June of 2020)
Thanks for being so passionate about this product...IT WORKS, PERIOD❗❗
thanks Klasse I know you are really passionate about detailing as well.
@@ForensicDetailing perfect timing Jon as I'm watching JayEmm on cars and he's reviewing an M4 Comp Pkg and I get your message😇👍😉
Got a 5L jug of Touchless back when you first covered it; I have done something like 6-10 washes with it. I honestly think it is one of the best cleaning pre-washes around, especially on cars that are not coated/protected. It is a pretty solid competitor IMO because I don’t go through a whole lot of product, rinses well, has a good working time, and wasn’t terribly expensive to get in the US. Only downside is a strong, peculiar smell.
Ĺ⁰
Where do you find it reasonably priced in the US? Everywhere I have found it charges about $50 a jug.
@@paulwyand6204 I bought it on the recent black Friday sale from The Clean Garage and paid somewhere around $40. Remember they're jug is 5L or 169 ounces. Not 128 Oz.
Bravo Jon, you pretty much hit several nails on the head with this video. More importantly you put the age old topic of LSP and ph and non-ph products into context. The unique selling point of ph neutral snow foams are overstated, the manufacturers don't even make any claims about it's cleaning ability other than on "lightly" soiled vehicles, and your test really brought that to life. What is the point of being kind to the LSP if you're going to end up more dirt on the car which will increase the risk of marring during the contact wash phase! LSP is a sacrificial layer and easy to top up or replace. The only thing missing from the video was the corrosion inhibitors in these BH products. I wonder whether Auto-Foam has a slight advantage, it being cationic and more difficult to rinse off, it might cling more in wheel arches and to any exposed ferrous components (but maybe it's marginal, and anyway I use Atom-Mac in my wash routine). So although I love Auto-Foam, I'm going to also try out Touch-Less based on this video. BTW, both products state a maximum of 5% PIR (it's the instructions on how to calculate your setup's abilities which mentions 4%), but the minimum for AF is 1%, and for TL it's 2%.
I can't fault either of these honestly Jon but mostly use AF and if it's really dirty spray surfex at 1:15 and cover it with AF. Works well
Interesting, just done a snow foam test video the other week on my channel and was happy with the result. Granted not as detailed as yours but it's part of my new tested videos were I make the video nice and short and to the point
I've been using touchless now for about 6 - 8 washes after using autoglym beforehand. The difference in cleaning power is certainly noticeable. I've noted less corrosion on my brake discs too which is a good thing. The last two washes I've tried it out of a pump sprayer to see how it affects it over a foamer, I think it cleans better and as a handy plus point it uses less product.
You mean touchles had better performance than the autoglym?
How much PIR Touchles you used with a Lance?
How much dillution you used with a pump sprayer? Thanks
@@dodyh657 4% PIR for both foamer and sprayer. Touchless is so much better than autogylm foam. Just don't expect thick foam for photos
@@bobhopeandnohope300 Great thanks for the answer. Please Let me know if you have another touchless pre wash which is better than TL 👍👍👍👍
This results are incredible.
I’ve just bought and tried some Bilt Hamber Auto Foam and it’s mental.
It wipes the floor with Autoglym which has been my ‘go-to’.
And it leaves a real shine. I’ve looked to see if it is full of silicone but can’t find it in the ingredients.
It’s so good that in this wet, muddy weather, I’m not bothering to hand wash (except the wheels which I still do).
BH lifts much better and doesn’t leave streaks where the jet hits. It cleans sooo evenly.
Awesome stuff. ♥️ But I’ll definitely be buying some of the Touch Less.
Thank you Jon, I've been waiting for a direct comparison between these two especially with the nitty gritty info ie what they actually consist of and what their specifications and chemical properties are! I use both but am undecided as to which I prefer. The original Auto Foam is so good it'll be hard to beat especially when the new one costs more. Anyone who's a regular on your channel knows full well snowfoam DOES work, although IMHO BH snowfoam (either one) makes all others redundant because not only do they actually work you don't have to spend ages clearing shaving foam type rinse-off away from your driveway! Thick foam sucks - boooooooo!
Agreed SteveRabbits. We should all know by now that BH makes some effective pre-wash products. The only universally agreed upon downside seems to be how much product you go through. Need this stuff in 5 gallon/20L containers in the US
@@grim5068 I'd love to chat with their chemists. I'd imagine they could use a more potent chemical that you could dilute further, but I wonder if environmental ethics start to play a role there. Perhaps they could use some stronger chemicals, but how much stronger can you go with a product that gets everywhere and washes down drains/gets into waterways?
I think buying in bulk would be a cost effective solution for now, so that's what I'm hoping for
5L SnowPro Snow Foam Shampoo 10L for £21, works a treat, used it for years on my new M5's of which I've had 6, never a swirl mark on them.
Thank you so much for your continued videos on this subject and dispelling this myth that PH neutral is some universal positive.
As you seem to be gaining more and more support in the ideal that a higher PH pre-wash is better I would love to see you do almost this exact same test and expand it to some other soaps. I'd be willing to send you some stuff from the U.S. if you can't get it there.
Particularly I would love to see some stuff like the Turtle Wax Max Power, and some of the lesser known stuff like Wash Chems and Chem-X, as well as the chemical guys Citrus wash in a higher concentration as they claim it can be used to strip waxes in higher concentrations. Last but not least I'd like to see you do the test with a PH neutral soap punched up with a high alkaline APC such as super clean, which is very very common for people to do here. I'd like to see how much it actually does and what the limits are.
Bingo! :)
I add a "splash" of APC to my soap in my foam gun with great results.
Man I wish they would find a good distributor in the US that did not jack the price way up! It is over $50 shipped here! That is 41 and a half pounds.
Cheers Jon, another great video. I'm just starting to learn about how to detail a motor properly, only for my own car so not looking to make a living out of it or anything, but always really interesting to learn from guys or ladies like you that have far more knowledge than me. Much appreciated sir, please keep em coming 👍
Great video Jon and just the information I was seeking. It's amazing how many clips show the products being tested on relatively clean cars and your demo really hit the mark in my opinion. I have just ordered 5L of Touchless following your advice and cannot wait to try it out. I'm not too stuck on all that foam over the driveway, so have bought a Spear & Jackson 5L pump sprayer and will use that instead of a foam lance. Thanks again.
Hey Nick, what's your opinion on foam vs no foam? Is foam just for show, or does it actually make a difference?
@@goldar4846 It only arrived yesterday, so haven't had a chance to try the product yet. My understanding is that the formula does the work, as opposed to the bubbles, so I'm hopeful it will work well from the pump sprayer. I don't think BH would suggest this approach if it wouldn't do the job. If it doesn't, which I doubt, I'll respond further.
Pan the Organizer in Canada did a similar test on his vehicle covered in winter road grime and mag chloride. He got the same results you did where Touchless won out. I live in Colorado in the US and we get bad winter grime. After seeing your test and his, I know what I want to use over the winter.
This is the best video I have seen on proving prewash works! Great job! You nailed it!!
Fantastic. Removes any doubt that a good prewash is a great way to help reduce swirls when washing
This is a very helpful thing for me as someone in Alaska looking to improve my winter washes. Thank you Forensic Detailing!
Alaska wow where abouts
Anchorage! Interesting note - the pay-and-spray washes here have user-closable bay doors and heated water in the pressure washers. I use them to get the initial layer of dirt off before washing in my garage at home.
Getting low on AF, so I ordered some TL . Seeing how it cleaned out the wheel arches made me want to give it a go. Probably going to use TL in the summer for the dustier conditions and keep the AF for after motorway driving when it’s likely to get greasy crap on it from HGVs and roadworks. My logic may be way off though!
100% agree Roger re winter and summer pre wash chemical. 👌🏽
Cheers@@D992 !
Great comparison, Jon. I still love Surfex HD used at 7% as a prewash once or twice a week followed by a rinseless wash with BSD (winter) or Done and dusted si edition (summer). I think if the car paint is well protected, these BH prewash products can really make the two buckets process obsolete. I only now use shampoo to prep for polishing my cars every two years. I have no issues with this process scratching the paint of my Audi and Hyundai cars.
I tried touch-less today, I did a similar test on my car, but was disappointed:
1st place: Surfex HD 1:15 (I'd rate it 7.5/10 in cleaning power
2nd place: Touch-less 1:15 (6,25% PIR) (I'd rate it 6/10)
3rd place: Touch-less 1:24 (5%) (I'd rate it 5/10)
4th place: Multi-X 1:15 (2/10)
5th place: Reset 1:128 (1/10)
6th place: ONR 1:256 (0/0)
Test method: diluted on a sprayer, sprayed the panel, waited 5 mins, rinsed with a pressure washer, dried with a blower
PS: Surfex HD and Touch-less have a very similar smell
@@miguelcunha6664 in my experience any prewash product will be as good as your LSP. I use Fusso Coat as my base sealant and BSD as my sacrificial layer. This combo works well with Surfex HD as it stops dirt and grime from clinging onto the clear coat. Plus the surfactants in the Surfex help lifting any residual contaminant when I follow up with a rinseless wash. Another thing I'd say is that i hardly go a full week of driving without doing this procedure at least once, sometimes I do a touchless only and drive away when rain is in the forecast for instance, so the car is never really that dirt in the first place.
Can you do some experiments on how these degrade plastic and rubber trim? I've heard stories of people complaining that it strips out the oils...etc. from rubbers leaving them chalky, which I have to imagine is not good in the long term.
Also, curious which PH neutral soap you used?
Nobody does it like forensic detailer. Great video
I can get a full contact less wash in winter with AutoFoam, and that's in North Scotland with loads of salt etc, makes that golf look clean. Tbf I bung in loads of product, prob 50:50 and take an age doing the pressure wash but with cotton swabs after it's 100% clean. Zero touching winter wash win!
Over the Winter I've been doing complete touchless washes with touchless ,using a Citrus and TL it works amazing.
Jon, I generally use bilt hamber auto foam all year round but in the winter I spray the car with Koch Kemi Green Star, which cleans very well
John, Koch Chemie has Super Foam which is supposed to be a 12ph as well. And 3D has their Nano Pail Pre-Foam which is supposed to be 12ph. Then there is Wash Chem-50 which is making its way around the USA as a high PH foam n rinse. Then Chem-X has Stars+Stripes that is another big one here in the USA. It’s interesting as it’s a 2 part neutralizing system. Maybe worth looking into. Good day
I'd love to see the some of these compared as well. As it is BH just isn't cost effective for me in the states and I haven't tried a pre-wash that was any better than just water so I don't bother.
@@andrewcramer7214 well, 3D Pre-Wash is a NanoPail. Super concentrated and u can buy a 64oz for a decent price but it will last forever
@@DetailingBreakdown I'll have to check it out. Thanks!
Really appreciate the scientific knowledge and approach to explaining and testing these products. Awesome stuff!
Have you tried touchless vrs surfex at 10 to 1 as a prewash.. I put surfex in a pump foamer for lower portions, it works extremely well
I love watching your videos, and you do mention stuff that makes sense, preventing the waste of time. I have watched another video where you show how unnecessary it is to pre-rinse your car with water. Thank you!
Nice work.. I’ve always loved Surfex and I’ve mixed that into any snow foam I’ve used. I’m using KK GS and Lift
And that is really working well. Not hot on BH car soap.. think there is far better. But Will defo try touchless when what I have is gone
Wich soaps do you like?
@@dimmacommunication Koch Chemie Autoshampoo is good. BH is good but I like a bit more foam. I felt it wasn’t as slick as I’d want it to be. BH though is great on price and how long it lasts which a lot of other products don’t give. I only like to use shampoos that don’t have any protectants in them. Not tried any Adams or Valet Pro products yet.. so many out there
Am going to try KKD products.. seem to have good reviews
100% agree Jon. I don’t particularly care about degrading LSP as I’d rather do that then destroy the paintwork. I’m currently an Auto foam user and I super charge it by first spraying Koch Chemie Green Star in pump sprayer on the vehicle between 8:1/ 10:1 followed by an immediate blanket of Auto foam. This combo has always worked brilliantly for me. Might consider touchless at some point.
Why not add the Koch Chemie Green Star into your Cannon with Auto foam and save a step of first using a hand-held pump sprayer?
Hmmm...
I use Autofoam but when I have used it up I maybe order a bottle of each. If have to top up my Fusso coat in the spring and fall I'm Okey with that. I'm not looking for perfektion. Just a honest and well maintained look
Yes!!! Another BH video 👍. Personally you have got me buying BH from your earlier videos and I cannot move away from the brand, I use the touchless system (touch-on) I use BH shampoo after Touchless, then a second bucket wash using touch-on. Results are epic. I switch between BH LSP and Autoglm ceramic coating to really boost the beadage of touch-on. Might try Gyeon wet coat and Bathe+ and use can coat every 6 months... I absolutely love slickness and beadage, my ultimate goal would be to find the most hydrophobic coating known to man- that would make me the happiest. 🙏
That is the fair test we are looking for! Thank you very much! I’ll get one after this video
Just tried to buy some of the Touchless… out of stock everywhere 😢… amazing product and results! Great advice again! 😊
Amazon !!!!!
@@1960JB Only Auto Foam on Amazon… Pete Hamber from Bilt Hamber said it’ll be in stock later this week… 👍 thanks, Mark
AMAZING VIDEO came over from pan the organizer because I've been looking for pre foam and this video was AMAZING!! THANK YOU ,will be buying rinse less now
I've always found that my Autofoam leaves a tiny bit of roadfilm as seen in this video, so I'll be moving over to Touchless on my next purchase. It's almost good enough for a completely contactless wash (good for undercarriage!)
I like to coat the car in Opti-Clean before my my pre-rinse. I spray it on let it sit for a moment then rinse the car. I know it take off a lot of dirt and more importantly to me it provides a lot of lubrication so when I go in with a high pressure pre-rinse it helps the dirt I am blowing off not hurt the paint. Great video
Surfex is my choice, as it can be used for other things too. I seem to remember the BH site recommending Surfex for greasy films rather than Autofoam which is aimed at dusty dirt. I know Surfex isn’t the most foamy and can’t be left to dwell in Summer, but it doesn’t seem to need much time to do the job. Maybe I’ll try Touchless in Summer.
I totally agree with you John I always use a strong prewash for coated cars I use autofoam I also use autoglym high foam tfr and autosmart ultra mousse the last 2 a very good cleaners. I always been in the camp it best to get as much dirt off you can before touching the paint as you say. If not u are putting damage onto your clear coat. Much easier to top your protection up than machine polishing. And so many easy ways of topping it up these days polar seal a good quick option and very available in the shops. Great test 👍
Great test again john, I am converted to Touchless. I would like to see the same test but with ONR as a pre-wash option as well, i think it will give similar or better then thr PH neutral that you used. I have ditched shampoo from my cleaning as touchless is so good, i just need to go over with ONR and then dry.
Yesterday after watching this video I tried on my car's door, which was similar to this video's door
I tried ONR 1:256, carpro reset 1:128 in a foamer, surfex HD 1:15 in a sprayer.
ONR performed 0 out of 10, reset did a 2 out of 10, and surfex did a 6.5 out of 10. I'm in doubt if I touch order touch-less, as surfex did a rather decent job.
I just used touch less for the first time yesterday. Compared to my previous cheap ebay snow foam, it produced less thick foam, however it removes much more dirt. My wash mitt was far cleaner and it worked well on the alloys. Very impressed. I'd give it 8/10. The only two things I think could be improved is the dilution ratio and the lack of very thick foam. Cleaning power is top notch though.
What’s the value of thick foam if it doesn’t work?
@@ianwilson2968 thicker foam that stays on the car a little longer gives you a bit more time to work before it starts to dry. Handy for me as I clean both cars at the same time and all this hot weather means you have to work faster.
Great video as always Jon. I live in Southern Europe and the word around here is to also use an acid prewash for inorganic dirt (sand, mineral deposits, etc). We don’t get a lot of salt and general grime in winter here - would love your thoughts on this
you mean salfumant, hydrochloric acid. It will work, obviously. Just make sure you rinse it all off before it attacks the paint and plastics. Personally, I wouldn't put it anywhere near my car, apart from cleaning wheels.
@@LiveFromLondon2 the recommended products are usually Purifica from Labocosmetica and Sour Shampoo/Foam by Good Stuff. I believe others are starting to pick up on the slightly acid shampoos as it helps rejuvenating the coating (e.g. CarPro latest products, KochChem FSE)
@@LiveFromLondon2 Don't overthink things.
Fear is a mind killer.
I spray wheel acid on paint daily, as a professional detailer.
As long as you don't let it dwell it's my secret weapon ;)
also you can try the same thing but against a lightly soiled car that has protection. I wash my car well before it gets to this level of dirty and one time I tried only pressure washing it just to see what happens I even didn’t dry it I just drove it and the car became about 95% cleaner only problem was the water spotting so I washed it the day after and the water spots went away. So this could be the reason why people say it’s a waste of time for them a lot of variables play roles like the level of dirt , the protection of the car, the weather and the temperature of the water.
Just watched the video. The Bilt Hamber Touchless appears to have done the job. I would like to try it as the science behind it seems to work. As detailers we all know that touching a panel the least amount will have the most beneficial outcome of minimizing marring. I dry all my vehicles with the Metro Master Blaster so it never gets touched again after the initial wash. So it would be cool one day to have a true touchless system.
My big problem with snow foams is on very dark paints. If that product drys on the paint it's almost impossible to remove the staining. Now you can do panels at a time but it's time consuming changing over the lance and so on. I'd be very interested seeing how you remove water marks and stained paint from prewash products. Great video.
You don't let them dry and don't over concentrate them. I used to have this problem with my k4 but the k7 rinses better
@@ForensicDetailing I agree, you don't let them dry but on dark cars it can be very easy for it to start drying before you rinse plus I always seam to find even when you wash you can get sections that have started drying which turns into a nightmare to remove the marks especially when prewash has been used. Straight washing doesn't seem to be quite so bad. I maybe wrong thought 👍
Enjoyed that one Jon, thanks very much. Once my Autowash runs out, I’ll be purchasing the Touchless.
I've being valeting cars 🚗 for over 40 years you must Pre wash the car first for a perfect result 👌 I'm using foam at the moment but may go on to touchless soon keep the videos coming m8 .👍
thank you john
I've got the BH AF and it's definitely worth using as a pre wash plus let's face it snow foam is just fun
I use Surfex-HD at 4% in a pump sprayer. Leave to dwell for a few minutes and then jet wash off and it cuts through the traffic film and dirt like an hot butter through knife. No need for fancy snow foams anymore.
Great video, big fan of touchless and touchon. When my vehicles are heavily contaminated in the winter with salt I use a 50/50 mix of surfex and autofoam., Extremely effective and cheaper than 4% pir touchless.
Can you speculate where TL is worse than AF? I've found that AF is really good at dissolving brakedust and and oils. Will TL do the same?
Thanks John my autofoam is nearly finished so I’ll give touchless a try, I just need to figure out those PIR’s
Awesome video and information! Thank you so much. Very valid point regarding LSP degradation by a high PH prewash.. rather apply that more often than have to correct paint defects because of poor washing practice?!
I've got Auto Foam and so far I haven't been massively happy. You notice the weird pattern left after washing in your sample? The lines you can see. I always get that and it felt like I was maybe getting my ratio wrong. After seeing this. I wonder if it's to do with the Cationic Vs Non-Cationic portion of the product you mentioned. I have equally as much winter scum on my car at the moment and honestly I've wondered if I needed TFR or something first. I've honestly never really even has Auto Foam work as well as you've demonstrated here yet. It's a shame because I really like Bilt Hamber.
I know we dont use pre foaming like this in the states .. not sure why. Anyways, ive been using a APC pre spray (Greenstar 10:1) on my jeep prior to a waterless or rinseless wash down at the coin op. It does a great job at removing 90% of the grime. I wash my cars weekly so it does not get all that dirty. Rw/ww does just fine.
Would’ve been interesting to see how surfex performed,
Of course it isn’t a prewash in itself but if a car is absolutely rotten it certainly helps
I tried touch-less today, I did a similar test on my car, but was disappointed:
1st place: Surfex HD 1:15 (I'd rate it 7.5/10 in cleaning power
2nd place: Touch-less 1:15 (6,25% PIR) (I'd rate it 6/10)
3rd place: Touch-less 1:24 (5%) (I'd rate it 5/10)
4th place: Multi-X 1:15 (2/10)
5th place: Reset 1:128 (1/10)
6th place: ONR 1:256 (0/0)
Test method: diluted on a sprayer, sprayed the panel, waited 5 mins, rinsed with a pressure washer, dried with a blower
PS: Surfex HD and Touch-less have a very similar smell
@@miguelcunha6664 I think your ratios need adjusting bud. 1:19 would be 5% I’m sure. 1:24 would 4%. Also depends on how dirty the car was or what kind of film you have on the car. Surfex HD can be extremely effective in the winter film especially when combined with auto foam.
@@kwl189 You're right, I mistakenly wrote 5% when I wanted to write 4%.
Interesting fact: 2 weeks later I tested again and this time I included Auto-foam in the test, and t lost against Touch-less. One week after, it won. It really depends on the type of dirt. I have a foam canon and a marolex 5liter pump sprayer. I prefer using the sprayer as I save product and get a more precise dilution.
In my tests surfex always wins and auto-foam and touch-less fight for the 2nd place. Why not just use surfex then?
@@miguelcunha6664 Not a problem. Mistakes are easily done. Yes I am in full agreement with you on using a sprayer. I do the same myself for the same result. Cost. I don’t care for the snow foam and theatrics. I just want something non caustic, seriously effective and that does the job full stop. The only downside to sprayer is that it can dry off the surface really quickly which is annoying to say the least. Dilution ratios are very easy to work as well agreed. Snow foam canons are just convenient to apply protection onto. The dirt is a huge factor with Touch-less and Autofoam. Surfex HD is lethal on dirt but also lethal to LSP. The degradation on LSP is substantial. Given the price of Surfex HD though, it’s incredibly versatile and useful whilst being unreal value for money. I think John should do a test with Surfex to see. I have seen people just full on use Surfex HD given its magical properties.
@@kwl189 for touchless how many ml of touchless to ml of water in a 1 letre canon foamer is the 4% PIR? is it really neccessary to calculate it with my preassure washer?
Last two bottles were TL instead of AW and man can t praise it enough. Honestly I do this small business of cleaning cars alongside my day job and TL helps me getting the job fast and it s so cool to see the foam getting down but dirty no touch
Hi, is there a specific type of snowfoam attachment for the BH Autofoam ? I have a Spear & Jackson Pressure Washer and it has a small foam sprayer with it, will that be OK?
These comparison vids are just the best. Would be interested to see how Surfex faired as a pre wash against winter road film. I’ll be using AG Brute at around 5% next weekend so we’ll see what that removes.
I tried touch-less today, I did a similar test on my car, but was disappointed:
1st place: Surfex HD 1:15 (I'd rate it 7.5/10 in cleaning power
2nd place: Touch-less 1:15 (6,25% PIR) (I'd rate it 6/10)
3rd place: Touch-less 1:24 (5%) (I'd rate it 5/10)
4th place: Multi-X 1:15 (2/10)
5th place: Reset 1:128 (1/10)
6th place: ONR 1:256 (0/0)
Test method: diluted on a sprayer, sprayed the panel, waited 5 mins, rinsed with a pressure washer, dried with a blower
PS: Surfex HD and Touch-less have a very similar smell
I use for last couple of years magifoam from Autobrite Direct and always have with the end. Try many different but always coming back to AD
Very good video Jon on that one. Great subject, well articulated, good shots of the result. This is a banger!
How would autofoam or touchless compare to Carpro Lift? Thank you.
Great to see the comparison been using Autofoam now for a while since watching your videos and it’s been fantastic over the winter. Will definitely be giving touch-less a go to see for myself. I would normally drop to a ph neutral in the summer months when the cars not so dirty especially now I don’t drive it so much.
Great video! People test this but your test actually shows what these products do after you dried it. Excellent!! What I would say is that the AF is great on cramic coated cars because it's easy to clean them, even pH neutral is great. But definitely, I'm gonna use touchless on cars that are not treated with ceramic coating. 👌👍
After watching your videos for ages I think you've got me on board that bilt hamber is the way to go
Excellent information. Excellent presentation. Super interesting. Thanks so much for posting.
During or after winter to get those road salts off are always tough.. typically, I will use an apc 4 to 1 and let it knock it down... and or add a little super clean to my foam canon for some extra cleaning fun.. i do like your thought process; toucless vs mechanical cleaning.. yeck I'm always adding more lsp anyway.
Great Video👍 Is Touch-Less going to be ok with ceramic coated cars? Or is the strength of the product going to damage/reduce that coating?
It is exactly the same as the LSP argument made here. The extra degradation from the alkalinity is far less significant than the degradation that comes with heavier agitation and scrubbing to remove what a PH neutral product leaves behind.
I really rate touchless. When I bought 5L's it was difficult to find a solid review. This just confirms my findings, I've found I get through it quite quickly when diluting to 4-5%. I'm sure during the summer I'll get away with a 2-3% and claw some value back.
Great stuff as always.
huge improvement! awesome!! was there any lsp on this tested vehicle?
What protection did the golf have on it?
Superb work Jon. Your test speaks volumes, and I'll be ordering TL next. Thanks.
FWIW IMHO 4 LSP PH neutral snowfoams are another detailing gimmick. Most people top up their LSP when they wash anyway so you may as well get the car clean as possible with your snowfoam/pre-wash. 14 initials in a row, not bad eh! 😂😂😂 Your best video in a while Jon, really enjoyed that one mate
Great comparison! How about resistance of by example Gyeon coating and ceramic spray coatings?
I’ve used lots and autofoam is still going to be first choice just because of price and tbh I’m never not going to contact wash. Cheers for the videos
So, generally Auto Foam can degrease better but Touchless is better for sooty, particulate type dirt?
I bought a snow foam kit about five years ago, I've tried so many different approaches when using it and I'm still convinced it does bugger all. I'm not splashing out on any fancy snow foams now I'll just rinse with a hose then a bucket of warm water with Autoglym shampoo and one of those £3 mits, seems to do the trick, some times I even finish off with Demon Shine, looks good.
I thought the same but touch less does a 90% wash on its own. It’s amazing.
Snow foam is game changer for car washing IMO, I use the touch less as a pre wash then spray on a snow foam shampoo with added wax & hand wash using a lambs wool washmit to agitate before rinsing off & micro fibre towelling dry - I think for me, this works best
Great content. Is Touches safe for Ceramic coating?
Great video, Jon, as always. Simple yet effective.
I did my first wash after the winter with Bilt Hamber products and the results were NOT perfect.
Why?? Because i was dumb and used low concentrations i use for regular maintenance washing during the warmer time of the year. That is 1:19 Surfex HD, 1:9 Auto Foam into the cannon (dont know the actual PIR) and 1:1000 Auto Wash.
Some parts of the car were not clean after the complete procedure. So i doubled the concentrations for the next wash and it was okay.
It seems the road salt here where i live is super clingy.
Anyway, once I finish the Auto Foam can im gonna switch to Touchless, as the road film i get is more dusty than greasy.
Good demonstration. I'd like to see how those products compare to CarPro Lift in the same test.
I'm not concerned about the protection degrading, but is it worth considering how a highly alkaline chemical might affect the rubber seals and plastics long term?
Brilliant content as always Jon. I've recently bought TL over the AF, first impressions were good as the cars were filthy. I'll soon see once the weather changes and there's less salt on the roads. Can't fail with Bilt Hamber 👍.
Great video John!
Really shows how great the product is. Once my autofoam runs out. Definitely getting touchless 👍🏻
First time I've seen a decent comparison between just a water rinse and various snow foams. And people on detailing/car pages still say snow foam/prewashes are a waste of money. Same folk who still rate sponges and chamois leathers 😂 Autofoam has been my go to for ages but I think after seeing this I may give TL a try when I run out 👍
I'm thinking of applying uhd wax to my car this month. Is one of these products better to use after applying this?
Out of interest if you used fairy liquid as your pre wash . Id guess it works too ? Have you tried
What do I think?
Touchless ordered thanks to you Jon.
Just purchased touch-less, one detailer to another thanks ✌️
Surfex HD then? How does it stand in between these ones?
I have always been confused with the ph neutral crew. Rain has a ph of around 5. So your LSP is constantly attacked. As John says cleaning with less abrasion is far more beneficial than a contact wash with a neutral wash. Touch less for the win for me. If the road film is really bad then I will use a surfex very diluted spray to sit on the dirt while I sort out the foam cannon. You just need to feel your lap and when it need reapplication. It’s there to be sacrificed.
Brilliant video. Was stuck between the two, but will be going with Touchless after watching this video. Im sure the difference is going to be night and day, from my current prewash which is Polar Blast (useless and messy).